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Anybody know where amp manufacturers get their tests done?

76.99.206.106
Posted on July 5, 2012 at 13:05:45
hukkfinn
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Posts: 3448
Location: East Coast
Joined: July 19, 2002
Contributor
  Since: August 10, 2008
 Such as, THD, separation, etc?

I am helping a guy who is considering starting up an amp mfg. company. We just don't know where to turn for testing.

Thanks for any help,
Hukk

 

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RE: Anybody know where amp manufacturers get their tests done?, posted on July 5, 2012 at 15:46:36
rick_m
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Posts: 5192
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
Contributor
  Since: January 16, 2010
 Internally.

The gear is affordable and common and should be available used. Push come to shove you can even do a pretty good job in-band with a computer and sound card running FFT SW.

And you need it on hand anyway to work on design issues, QC production and fix problems.

That your friend doesn't know this sort of thing is not a good omen, don't invest...

Rick

 

In their engineering lab., posted on July 5, 2012 at 16:53:54
Tweekeng
Audiophile

Posts: 2011
Joined: September 9, 2005
 Many companies even do their own EMI testing and can self certify FCC compliance.

 

RE: In their engineering lab....which leaves room for Bias, posted on July 6, 2012 at 13:52:21
Dynobot
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Posts: 2700
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
 Not to say that manufacturers won't be honest about the results of their gear. But, it sure leaves the door open to exaggerated claims and bias.


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

You will find the vast majority of engineers have integrity , posted on July 6, 2012 at 21:29:47
Tweekeng
Audiophile

Posts: 2011
Joined: September 9, 2005
 Once marketing gets a hold of engineering data all bets are off.

 

A PERFECT post! Thanks!...N/T, posted on July 6, 2012 at 21:46:21
musetap
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  Since: January 28, 2004
 N/T
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" - Michael McClure



 

This may come as a shock, but most of the boutique “High-End” audio products are not UL or FCC certified., posted on July 8, 2012 at 09:40:25
cfb
Audiophile

Posts: 1130
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 19, 2002
 The most basic level of Underwriters Laboratories Product Certification will cost between $40,000 to $80,000 and goes up. As for the FCC, only transmitters and antennas are currently required to be tested in a laboratory accredited to ISO 17025, not required for say a turntable, speaker or bandwidth limited audio only amplifier.

There are worldwide, over 830 boutique manufacturers of what we think of as “High-End” audio products. The vast majority of which are very small shop producers, either one man operations or very small 2 to 5 employee affairs. They may produce one hundred units a year or less of any given model. As such the overhead, read expense, of full on “Certification” such as you would find from the likes of Sony or Bose will not be found here.

To give an example, although I do not wish to single out a particular manufacturer, this is just to illustrate my point. Take the Brown Electronics Labs amplifier, the BEL1001, Mr. Brown once told me that he only did a manufacturing run of his amp once a year, between 150 to 200 units and that was it. The total run depended on his past months orders from dealers, gauging his next years orders. The point being at that time his amp was around $2,400 retail at dealers, that means the Gross income before expenses for Mr. Brown was only $240,000 at best for a given year. Take the parts cost, shop expense, insurance, etc., and his net profit was likely far below $100,000. At that time the BEL amp was well known in audio circles and a popular product in the High-End market. For many boutique manufacturers today who are not as well known as Brown they will not sell anywhere near that number per year. There are some that will not sell even fifty units in a year.

To Illustrate that last point, take the early years of Apogee and Hill's Plasmatronics speakers. The first Apogee product was the Full-Range ribbon, their top of the line speaker and yet over its total run less than 85 pairs were ever made and from what I have heard between 200 and 300 pairs of its replacement the Diva. True, they eventually did make thousands of pairs of Duettas and there's no telling how many thousands of speakers Magnepan has produced over the years but those are exceptions. In the case of the Plasmatronics, definitely a boutique product of its era, the 1980s, the total number known is less than 80 pairs ever made.

A last example, Julius Futterman with his OTL amp the H3 was known to solder them up on a portable table at his home back in the 60s. You can bet they never went through Underwriters Labs.

For a large section of our hobby the most interesting products are more akin to a custom shop turning out a one off hot rod than a factory assembly line churning out a thousand a day of product.

 

How about power cords??....nt, posted on July 14, 2012 at 14:37:13
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2700
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
 .
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

Great Post, cfb..., posted on July 15, 2012 at 21:17:23
c1ferrari
Audiophile

Posts: 260
Location: Southern California
Joined: March 16, 2001
 interesting and informative ;-)
Vbr,
Sam

 

Power Cords are covered under UL 817 and the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), posted on July 31, 2012 at 12:47:28
cfb
Audiophile

Posts: 1130
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 19, 2002
 If something is “installed” such as during building construction then it must meet the National Electric Code (NEC) for an inspector to sign off and they will be looking for an UL Listed mark. The term “installed” is used as in a permanent installation such as a built-in home theater or media room.

While the cable assembly itself may not be “UL Listed” its constituent parts may be of “UL Recognized Component” such as the plastic insulation used or the copper wire. But even power cords can be sold in the USA that are not “UL Listed”. However, if such untested product is involved in a loss or fire especially if there is loss of life and even if it is not the direct cause of the loss then it opens the manufacturer up to tremendous product liability. Which in many small High-End audio companies their business liability insurance, if they even carry any which should not be assumed to be the case, would not cover the inevitable tort suit.

 

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