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Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter

209.97.232.27
Posted on November 3, 2009 at 14:42:30
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4320
Joined: August 1, 2001
 All the time we have people who have things that generate noise back into their AC lines -- computers, switching amps, powered subwoofers, video displays. I'd like to be able to recommend some choices for low-cost power line filters.

These don't have to be super-duper audio grade things, as the main goal is to keep the nasties out of the wall wiring. But I'd like to avoid units with MOV's and/or ferrites. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

RE: Alan Maher PE, posted on November 6, 2009 at 03:17:08
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1050
Location: B.C. Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
 is very good and priced well, I have 3 of them.
I also agree with Paul A, Topaz and other crystals can make a very nice improvement.

Here's a cheap DIY that helps a lot, posted on November 5, 2009 at 11:30:18
Awe-d-o-file
Manufacturer

Posts: 6093
Location: 2 hr. west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004

Try this, it's free so to speak. Fool with mating cap to resistor values. The resistor should vary with the cap rating. Although the same resistor for all does work.



ET
Question "Authority", the mainstream media sucks - Go Independent and hold BOTH parties accountable instead of just the other guys!

I need music to help forget the reality of today
I don't see anything, posted on November 5, 2009 at 15:45:29
RadioWonder
Audiophile

Posts: 478
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003
 Your photo is missing...

RE: I don't see anything, posted on November 5, 2009 at 15:52:56
Awe-d-o-file
Manufacturer

Posts: 6093
Location: 2 hr. west of DC
Joined: January 10, 2004
 no photo, drawings and build instructions, scroll down



ET
Question "Authority", the mainstream media sucks - Go Independent and hold BOTH parties accountable instead of just the other guys!

I need music to help forget the reality of today
a square with a red "x" in it, posted on November 5, 2009 at 16:10:10
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 2681
Joined: February 3, 2001
 The linky thingie is not there.

RE: a square with a red "x" in it, posted on November 5, 2009 at 18:50:33
harosenthal
 Maybe this link is what he intended.

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 5, 2009 at 10:08:56
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 2529
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
 Popularity is a rather iffy predictor of performance in a specific instance.

I think your best bet is to match the filter to the susceptibility of your devices. All you need is a couple of LISN's and a signal generator and you can measure the susceptibility of your stuff based upon whatever your internal criteria are for performance allowing for at least a first cut at what the filter needs to do.

Boring, but likely effective...

Rick

See my post above Titled My new DIY power conditioner, posted on November 5, 2009 at 06:38:48
djn
Audiophile

Posts: 1829
Location: michigan
Joined: January 15, 2003
 Here is the link. It was great fun to build and my power is cleaner than ever.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/16/166361.html

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 4, 2009 at 16:39:54
speyer
Audiophile

Posts: 280
Location: Northwest
Joined: February 3, 2002
 Alan Maher's Power Enhancers and Infinity Accessories. Most are parallel filters and condition the AC ckts throughout the house.

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 4, 2009 at 16:31:11
mooglie
Audiophile

Posts: 33
Location: pennsylvania
Joined: January 8, 2005
 I use a Brickwall surge unit. The stock unit sounds pretty good. No real ill effects, just a slight loss in transparency (as compared to using a better AC plug). In my system, dynamics are not affected with the 20A unit.

On a hi-rez system I would replace the captive plug, and perhaps the outlet. I ordered mine with a "hospital grade" outlet that appears to have some nickel plating. One might want to ask Brickwall if they offer an unplated brass outlet. I replaced the brass plug with a solid copper plug and gained some transparency-resolution.

I think the filtering is pretty mild. The unit is mostly for surge protection.

I have a BPT Pure Power Center downstream of this for my audio system. I also have my video system plugged into the Brickwall. I don't have any noise problems (even with the TV on). I believe in large part to the Kaplan cables I use, and the BPT. The microwave oven will put a bit of noise into the system if it's running. No big deal to me as I can control its use.

Topaz, posted on November 4, 2009 at 11:05:17
MylesJ
Audiophile

Posts: 659
Location: Oregon
Joined: October 25, 2001
 If you watch ebay you can catch an iso/regulator like a Topaz Line 2 (made by Square D) or other unit for short money. These were the thing to have before UPS became affordable. I can tell you that electronics run behind one of these will last forever. At least my audio or computer electronics that never saw straight line voltages have never had a problem, and some of them are over 25 years old. If it gets a peak that it can't bring down into regulated range, it cuts off.

Brick Wall Line filter, posted on November 4, 2009 at 07:49:25
bacobits
Audiophile

Posts: 556
Joined: September 29, 1999
 For a long time now.

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 4, 2009 at 07:10:21
Palustris
Audiophile

Posts: 251
Location: Cape Cod
Joined: September 12, 2008
 This Leviton Power Line Current Conditioner Surge Suppressor Noise Filter made a huge difference in my system for only $64 including shipping. I was astonished at the improvement in overall transparency and bass impact. It is easily the most cost effective item I have ever purchased for my system. This thing is large, bigger than a car battery and just as heavy, but quiet in operation.

It is exactly what you are looking for. If you owned a high end store you could easily sell these for $250 or more (buying them for $45).
RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 5, 2009 at 09:55:05
felrob
Audiophile

Posts: 52
Location: Vancouver
Joined: August 7, 2009
 I read your original post on that, and tried to chase one up. I live in Canada, so shipping heavy stuff from the tool company could get expensive. I called Leviton in Ontario (thier Canadian technical support line) and asked about this model. The gentleman at the other end of the line told me that Leviton got out of the power conditioning business some 8 years ago, and that the model your post refers to has not been made by them in all that time.

Does the tool company have a really old stock of these things...or are they used and refurbished...or?

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 5, 2009 at 15:18:40
Animal Chin
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Joined: April 26, 2009
 If you're in Vancouver, ship it to Point Roberts, WA (google "the letter Carrier") and pick it up in Twwassenn (sic). I do it all the time. Absolutely no hassle. Just send it in your name to their address. $3 charge. I think they keep packages for a few months.

Actually, for $45, I might give it a shot.
RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 5, 2009 at 10:15:38
Palustris
Audiophile

Posts: 251
Location: Cape Cod
Joined: September 12, 2008
 OK, that explains three things:

1. why I couldn't find any other source for this devise on the internet and why I couldn't find any reference on the Leviton sight.

2. why this incredible devise is so cheap.

3. why I couldn't find any of the other models listed on the spec sheet for sale anywhere.

So, it appears that this is a new old stock item (definitely new) and when their stock is gone there will be no more. I bought two, one for the stereo and one for the office.

APC black box, posted on November 4, 2009 at 05:40:54
reuben
Audiophile

Posts: 809
Joined: September 28, 2004
 I picked up an 1800 VA unit used, for $35 delivered. A multiple tap transformer provides some voltage regulation, and three pairs of outlets each have their own RF filtering.

Best,
CAC

Make your own for low cost and one commercial rec, posted on November 4, 2009 at 05:40:53
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 Designs have been published here for parallel filters made in properly safety rated R-C arrays. Those are what I use mostly and they're damn good! Remember: SAFETY FIRST- ELECTRICITY CAN KILL!!!!

The one commercial recommendation I can make unequivocally is Alan Maher's Infinity Circuit Breaker passive filter for $25 each. No kidding, these are fantastic and have multiple uses.

Don't laugh, but..., posted on November 4, 2009 at 04:56:34
Paul_A
Audiophile

Posts: 1518
Location: New York City
Joined: April 3, 2000
Contributor
  Since: June 25, 2000

piezoelectric crystals placed on power inlets, transformers, or any number of other places absorb high frequency hash on the line, and this ends up having more of an impact on the soundstage and clarity than other forms of interference like AC hum. Topaz works more consistently than quartz and is dirt cheap. A lifetime supply costs about $10.

I'm not laughing!, posted on November 4, 2009 at 05:38:31
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 I'm aware that some of the piezoelectric substances do indeed have this filtering effect and am going to experiment with them next. How did you determine how much to use and where? Trial and error?

RE: I'm not laughing!, posted on November 4, 2009 at 09:18:48
Paul_A
Audiophile

Posts: 1518
Location: New York City
Joined: April 3, 2000
Contributor
  Since: June 25, 2000
 You could do a search on this forum under quartz, tourmaline or topaz and get some ideas. I've had good luck on top of components, power inlets, transformers, near tubes, near speakers--just about anywhere. Here are pictures of my preamp and phono pre with tourmaline and topaz inside:





And here is an image of my breaker box:



All of these crystals made a very noticeable improvement, but I've taken the black tourmaline out of the preamps and didn't notice any change.
let me ask..., posted on November 4, 2009 at 14:21:38
dave c
Audiophile

Posts: 28377
Location: Ferny Hills
Joined: April 17, 2000
 ... are they just sitting there or have you glued/taped/fixed them in some way?
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RE: let me ask..., posted on November 4, 2009 at 14:40:34
Paul_A
Audiophile

Posts: 1518
Location: New York City
Joined: April 3, 2000
Contributor
  Since: June 25, 2000
 I used silicone which remains flexible after it has set. According to unclestu52, providing some flexibility to the crystal mount is necessary to convert the electromagnetic energy into mechanical vibration. See the link below for his explanation. If you look for his posts on crystals, you can find a lot of information on the physics of crystals along with his speculations and experiences.

thanks. nt, posted on November 4, 2009 at 17:18:45
dave c
Audiophile

Posts: 28377
Location: Ferny Hills
Joined: April 17, 2000
 bleep
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RE: I'm not laughing!, posted on November 4, 2009 at 08:19:43
sherod
Audiophile

Posts: 2605
Location: Texas
Joined: August 3, 2003
 It looks like more people are finally catching on to what Machina Dynamica( Brilliant Pebbles) has been using for quite some time. (o:

Yes, trial and error is all you can hope for when experimenting with various crystals, etc. Too much can over-dampen and strangle the music.

SHEROD!!!, posted on November 4, 2009 at 14:19:38
dave c
Audiophile

Posts: 28377
Location: Ferny Hills
Joined: April 17, 2000
 Looks like we can find a space to agree out here in the Outer Limits where EVERYONE back at WC thinks we're nuts!
;-)
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DAVE !!!, posted on November 4, 2009 at 14:50:11
sherod
Audiophile

Posts: 2605
Location: Texas
Joined: August 3, 2003
 Yes,
I have known of the virtues of crystalline structures regarding things audio since the Brilliant Pebbles were introduced. All the while, the naysayers put poor Geoffkait through Hell, slamming his Brilliant Pebbles. (o:

Of real science and belief - YMMV, posted on November 4, 2009 at 13:54:04
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 There are some real scientific explanations for the effect of piezoelectrics on electrical fields. That would mean on or very near to terminations, cables, power supplies, components. So some of Geoff's crystals on those places may indeed have been ahead of their time in the audio world - maybe, depending upon what crystalline structures he is using.

What explanation can you offer for crystals in a jar placed away from these?

I think that's the difference here. I'm not impugning Geoff nor am I familiar from actual experience with more than one of his products - and I'm not interested in a flaming debate!

Just a thought on why some things work, though they aren't familiar to all, and why some things probably don't, though by now everyone in the US has heard about "crystal power" for decades... YMMV

RE: "What explanation can you offer for crystals in a jar placed away from cables and components?", posted on November 4, 2009 at 14:33:14
geoffkait
Manufacturer

Posts: 3514
Location: northern Virginia
Joined: August 23, 2000
 The answer is very simple for the crystals placed away from the equipment and cables, etc. - i.e., out in the room. The crystals operate as energy absorbers, reduce the unwanted effects of standing waves, early reflections, and vibration. Especially, but not exclusively, in room corners. The theory that crystals must be near an electrical source is incorrect. Even when the crystals are used on cables or in equipment the electricty/electromagnetism theory is incorrect.

Your explanation doesn't track for me, Geoff, posted on November 4, 2009 at 16:59:18
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 You said:
The crystals operate as energy absorbers, reduce the unwanted effects of standing waves, early reflections, and vibration. Especially, but not exclusively, in room corners.

You are speaking here of mechanical vibration in the air mass. Of course they are impacted by vibes in the room and piezoelectric materials characteristically generate an electrical field as a response to mechanical pressure. They convert one to the other in both directions. They have a big enough impact by converting from electrical field energy to mechanical energy on the sound when close to the source. But the impact in the way you describe is infinitesimal, to my way of thinking.

YOu also say:
The theory that crystals must be near an electrical source is incorrect. Even when the crystals are used on cables or in equipment the electricty/electromagnetism theory is incorrect.

Then you are operating from some theory that I've not run across, Geoff. The impact of the electrical field falls off proportionately to the distance from the source of those fields. To convert the electro=magnetic to the mechanical would require some proximity to the elecrto-magnetic source to be effective.

I'll admit that my physics is rather old (or I'm old and my knowledge is outdated), but I don't think the universe has changed that much!!! LOL

RE: "I'll admit that my physics is rather old", posted on November 4, 2009 at 17:09:48
geoffkait
Manufacturer

Posts: 3514
Location: northern Virginia
Joined: August 23, 2000
 You studied physics of crystal structures in school? Interesting....my undergrad thesis involved bombarding magnetized metal crystals with high speed ions. What was yours?

Geoff, I'm not interested in the debate. Thanks just the same. nt, posted on November 4, 2009 at 19:51:25
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002

RE: Aw, shucks, I was looking forward to the debate. nt, posted on November 5, 2009 at 03:56:18
geoffkait
Manufacturer

Posts: 3514
Location: northern Virginia
Joined: August 23, 2000
 nt

RE: "More people are finally catching on to what Machina Dynamica's Brilliant Pebbles do.", posted on November 4, 2009 at 09:50:02
geoffkait
Manufacturer

Posts: 3514
Location: northern Virginia
Joined: August 23, 2000
 Yep, been using Topaz in Brilliant Pebbles for 7 (count 'em) years. Among other crystal types. Power to the pebble.

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 3, 2009 at 22:45:10
clio09
Audiophile

Posts: 1028
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Joined: January 29, 2006
 You can get a BPT Pure Power Center with filtering. I've used the non-filtered with Oyaide outlets and was pleased.

The one I recommend..., posted on November 3, 2009 at 21:06:11
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 15929
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 28, 2003
 ...is the latest Monster HTS1000 or whatever - I think it's a MkIII now.

Designed by Richard Marsh and available everywhere locally for under $200. Most will give you your money back if you don't like it.

I recommend people try it on the CD player first, where it will make the most difference.

I've been using one on mine for about 10 years.
PS -- Price under $300 maximum, posted on November 3, 2009 at 19:02:31
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4320
Joined: August 1, 2001
 I forgot to say what I considered "low priced". Less than that is better of course!

Furman PST-8D PLC, posted on November 3, 2009 at 18:27:57
Duster
Audiophile

Posts: 6818
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002

I've liked it as a low-cost low-budget option:

$? Didn't see price at the web site. nt, posted on November 4, 2009 at 07:58:43
oldmkvi
Industry Professional

Posts: 1591
Joined: April 12, 2002
 /

$+link, posted on November 5, 2009 at 13:01:52
Duster
Audiophile

Posts: 6818
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 Best price I found was $116 with free shipping:

I have to say, this is a first for me, posted on November 3, 2009 at 17:43:20
Metralla
Audiophile

Posts: 6413
Location: San Jose, California
Joined: January 30, 2001
 I've been here very regularly for 10 years (almost every day), and I simply cannot remember a manufacturer, and a well-known one too, asking for advice like this.

I hope your respect for the Tweakers' Asylum is rewarded by some excellent suggestions. Good on you, mate.

Regards,
Geoff
RE: I have to say, this is a first for me, posted on November 3, 2009 at 18:19:26
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4320
Joined: August 1, 2001
 I know of a really great power filter, but it's too expensive for most people just to keep the junk off their AC lines from the switching power supply in their video display.

I often find the opinions here to be well considered, for the most part. There is always the "it must be great, because I bought it" aspect. But unlike magazine reviewers, people here have generally lived with their choices for months or even years. There is nothing like the test of time.

I wish I had time to sit down and listen to 20 different power line conditioners, but I don't. So I figured that I would get a short list to investigate. Also a lot of times the inmates know of some "sleepers" that I've not yet heard of.

Please let us know what you find...(nt), posted on November 3, 2009 at 21:07:48
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 15929
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 28, 2003
 (nt)

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 3, 2009 at 17:40:42
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 352
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Of course, there's the Hammond 193L or 193M chokes across the power line tweak... cheap, does make a nice difference, but I haven't personally compared it to anything else.

Kenster, good to know about the MIT DIY filter, I've been looking at that.

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Charles, I'd tried to contact you in the DIYAudio forum with a question... and realized you don't frequent that board anymore (don't blame you!). I have a question regarding some comments you made there about regulators... if you're willing to take them, please contact me via the AA email an inmate facility. TIA!

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 3, 2009 at 18:26:40
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4320
Joined: August 1, 2001
 I prefer not to spend my limited amount of time in private e-mail discussions. It's better to do it in public where others can benefit from the time it takes to do all that typing.

See if you can join diyHiFi.org instead. A much nicer place for the serious audiophile. If they are not accepting registrations, please e-mail me at chansen at my (four letter) company name dot com and I will make a brief reappearance at diyAudio.com.

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 3, 2009 at 19:22:12
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 352
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Charles,

That is fair. I am already a member of diyHiFi.org.

But the request is one where you might want to respond privately.

My counter-offer... I'll email my message from diyAudio.com to you (it was in their current incarnation of a private message). If you want to take it public, respond with that and I'll start a thread on diyHiFi.org. If not, respond as you see appropriate.

Greg in Mississippi

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 3, 2009 at 15:59:06
kenster
Audiophile

Posts: 3889
Location: New Mexico
Joined: April 24, 2002
 I picked up an MIT DIY AC power conditioner at RMAF and was not expecting much for $115 but this thing is amazing for the money.
I plugged it in my HT power circuit feed 2 outlets before the PS Audio
PP600 AC regenerator and damned if it didn't clean up the video monitors
display producing more 3D images and it even dropped the noise floor in the main rig in the other room.

There is a noticable difference betweeen using the push-on connectors vs. soldering the wires to the module and using the newly released Oyaide solder was a definate improvement over the push-on connectors.

Cheers,

~

Bruce Brisson's Giant Killer AC Power Conditioner Kit, posted on November 4, 2009 at 03:16:08
RadioWonder
Audiophile

Posts: 478
Location: Arizona
Joined: March 16, 2003
 Kenster,is this the filter you purchased?

RE: Bruce Brisson's Giant Killer AC Power Conditioner Kit, posted on November 4, 2009 at 15:47:47
kenster
Audiophile

Posts: 3889
Location: New Mexico
Joined: April 24, 2002
 Yes it is.

~

RE: Please recommend your favorite low-cost power line filter, posted on November 3, 2009 at 18:18:28
eduardoo
Audiophile

Posts: 715
Joined: August 14, 2002
 Harmonix's Line Enacom is pretty simple, cheap, yet effective, but I guess it is just like the capacitor tweak recommended by many that one can DIY for even less money.

I find it to work well even in conjunction with other powerline filters (mine are not expensive, just early and low end model Chang Lightspeed and mid line Isotek filters).

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