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Gingko Cloud 12A and aftermarket balls :-)

99.140.94.215
Posted on October 30, 2009 at 16:18:33
flyfish2002
Audiophile

Posts: 45
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 30, 2007
 I own custom-sized Cloud 12A for my VPI TNT. I use the blue squash/racketballs that came with the platform and am very happy

But...I noticed that Herbie's Audio Labs now sells Grungebuster Balls in a variety of sizes, including one that would fit the Cloud platforms.

Since I have been very pleased with anything and everything Steve has recommended to me, dare I inquire about the grungebuster balls? Has anyone A/B'd blue vs grunge?

I believe that only in our hobby can one "tweak your tweaks" with an aftermarket part for the tweak's OEM part.
RE: Gingko Cloud 12A and aftermarket balls :-), posted on October 31, 2009 at 11:16:26
Duster
Audiophile

Posts: 6818
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002



IMHO, I would trust Steve's findings about the grungebuster Balls vs. stock Gingko "Cloud" balls. Herbie's Audio Lab products always perform as good as Steve dares to opine. IME, one case in particular are Sound Anchors Sorbothane Blue Dots vs. Herbie's Big Fat Dots which hands-down perform vastly better than the Sound Anchors product. YMMV

RE: Gingko Cloud 12A and aftermarket balls :-), posted on October 30, 2009 at 20:19:02
crossram2x4@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 296
Joined: April 17, 2008
 I was on the phone with Mike at VPI the other day discussing a variety of topics regarding my TNT. Nice guy, Mike. At one point, I was whining about having to frequently add air to the Firestone air bladders in my TNT's feet and he strongly recommended the new VPI "ball" type feet, saying that they gave up nothing to the air bladders in sound (obviously, I would loose the adjustability of the air pressure in the bladders) and were totally maintenance free. Perhaps the VPI balls would fit your Gingko?

RE: Gingko Cloud 12A and aftermarket balls :-), posted on October 31, 2009 at 07:19:01
flyfish2002
Audiophile

Posts: 45
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 30, 2007
 Not a bad idea. Though I am not unhappy at all with Vinh Vu's 12A - the grunge buster balls just caught my eye.

Best.

You won't convince me, posted on October 30, 2009 at 17:32:31
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 that the Gingko balls are anything remarkably different than various grades of racquetballs. They may be, and I may be maligning them, but I've used the same size racquetballs to great effect in similar situations. Go to your local sports store and try them; really cheap and effective if you want isolation.

RE: You won't convince me, posted on October 31, 2009 at 07:17:12
flyfish2002
Audiophile

Posts: 45
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 30, 2007
 Thanks, bartc. I have plenty of the blue squash/racquetballs remaining from the batch that came with the 12A. I did not need to use all of them since the single motor flywheel assembly sits on a separate cut-out from the main platform.

I agree, though, that the balls are likely just common squash or, more likely, racquetballs given their size and relative softness.

I was more seeking feedback from anyone who has tried Steve's grungebuster balls to see if there was a cost-effective improvement.

Best.

Steve's balls and air bladders (gross title!), posted on October 31, 2009 at 12:00:34
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 Steve's balls are solid, as I recall, and Gingko's are air bladders. They're both good isolators (Herbies products are very good, IME).

The theory with the Gingko, from reading their stuff, is that you modulate the degree of isolation to fit the weight of the component by using more or less bladders/balls. Steve's are weight rated.

I didn't see that Steve had any that were comparable size to racquetballs, but maybe he does. You can always ask him yourself, as he's been both forthcoming with advice and a very honest dealer in my experience with him.

I've used both solid and air bladder type isolators in my system. My preference is now for the solid, but that's because I only use them in some places (other places I use couplers and seismic sinks) for vertical isolation. I've settled on Norsorex balls ('sad' or 'dead' or 'unhappy' balls). Norsorex seems to work better for isolation than Sorbothane, and I know they use these on electron microscopes, where it really matters! Norsorex balls only seem to come in 3/4" up to 1.5" sizes, insofar as I've found them commercially, but they sure do the job at only 3/4" (my stuff doesn't weigh a lot though.)

Steve claims to have tested Norsorex and Sorbothane against his compound, another elastomer that is un=named.

Now I've seen it all..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 18:06:45
sherod
Audiophile

Posts: 2605
Location: Texas
Joined: August 3, 2003
 ...manufacturers resorting to selling with sex. (o:

By the way, Herbie's stuff is very good. I use his Tenderfeet under several of my components. Very neutral isolation.

RE: Steve's balls and air bladders (gross title!), posted on October 31, 2009 at 12:24:08
flyfish2002
Audiophile

Posts: 45
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 30, 2007
 Thanks, bartc.

I did send Steve a message this AM and he responded immediately. I too feel his products are excellent and have never returned a product that he recommended for my application. Steve's knowledge is considerable.

In Steve's reply, he indicated that the grungebuster balls have been around for a several years - I just missed them. He believes that the Ginkgo Cloud isolation family of products is ingenious and potentially highly effective, but execution is not optimal. He has several customers using grungebuster balls in place of the racquetballs supplied by Gingko - all from web based inquiries such as mine.

Steve indicated that no customer has ever returned grungebuster balls that were purchased to replace the stock Gingko balls.

This fact, plus the extraordinary experience I have had with Steve in the past (Iso-cups with lampblack balls, tenderfeet, grunge buster sheets and ultrasonic tube dampers) together make for a pretty solid testimonial.

I just might try them.

Best.

RE: Steve's balls and air bladders (gross title!), posted on November 7, 2009 at 09:40:19
roscoeiii
Audiophile

Posts: 54
Joined: April 28, 2009
 It's also worth noting that the Herbie's products can be returned within 90 days if you are not satisfied with them. That would give you a nice 3 month evaluation period. I have his tenderfeet and will try out his products under my speakers once I've got the cash. I'd suggest dropping the cash on Herbie's balls and comparing directly to Ginko, etc.

I suggest you will!! (Have to test them, to find out the difference. :-)) ) ..., posted on November 2, 2009 at 23:12:02
andyr
Audiophile

Posts: 6555
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 I've used squash balls under a 25lb slab of slate for years, to support source components - ever since I read an article on TNT-Audio about "building a DIY 'Vibraplane' (air isolation platform)" ... way before Gingko came onto the scene.

If the solid balls are better, I'd be very interested to know. :-))

Regards,

Andy


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