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Belden 89259 question

124.120.28.37
Posted on October 25, 2009 at 05:39:22
Bom
Audiophile

Posts: 81
Joined: March 19, 2001
 I understand that 89259 has teflon insulation. I just saw from belden website. It says foam FEP insulation. Is it the same thing as teflon?

I also realized that insulation of my 89259 (bought 3-4 years ago) has different color than my very old 89259 (bought 8-9 years ago). They are all white but different white color.

Thank you

RE: Belden 89259 question, posted on November 1, 2009 at 03:43:12
Bom
Audiophile

Posts: 81
Joined: March 19, 2001
 Hello Jon,

Have you noticed that 89259 has slightly different in white insulation? I found one cable has something like foam whereas newer cable has somelike plastic to me.

thank you

RE: Belden 89259 question, posted on October 25, 2009 at 09:05:54
jad
Audiophile

Posts: 40
Joined: August 23, 2002
 They are all foamed teflon. According to those in the know the foamed teflon (FEP) is better than solid teflon. My guess is that it may be easier to manufacture and certainly use less FEP material as part of the volume would be air. The foam would therfore be less costly to produce, weigh less thus ship cheaper, and as a bonus does the job better. A win-win-win which is seldom achieved in the global competitive marketplace.

Also, a lower net dielectric constant., posted on October 25, 2009 at 11:48:40
Al Sekela
Audiophile

Posts: 8279
Location: Northern California
Joined: February 18, 2002
 This is the reason for using foamed Teflon as a cable insulation.

Solid Teflon has a high dielectric constant, which slows the propagation of electrical signals on the cable. Some audiophiles find the sonic signature of Teflon objectionable, so a foamed version would have less of whatever characteristic this is. Teflon is a sonically neutral dielectric to my taste, so I can't describe further.

Actually...., posted on October 25, 2009 at 18:56:24
Jon Risch
Bored Member

Posts: 6117
Joined: April 4, 2000
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 A wrote:
"Solid Teflon has a high dielectric constant, which slows the propagation of electrical signals on the cable."

Not really, if you compare solid teflon to almost ANY of the other solid dielectrics, it has the lowest dielectric constant, of about 2.1
Polyethylene is about 2.4 to 2.3, depending on the exact formuation used, since cable insulators are usually NOT a completely pure form of the plastic. Teflon is one of the exceptions.
PVC ranges from 3.5 to 7 or even higher.
Polyurethane ranges from 3.5 to 5 or 6
Polypropylene ranges slightly lower than polyethylene.

A foamed FEP teflon ends up even lower, as low as 1.5 or 1.6, and yes, this is good in terms of reducing the already low dielectric involvement of the teflon with the audio signal.

Some folks like foamed PE's sonic signature better than foamed FEP, and I think they are responding positively to the slight warmth that PE has compared to teflon, but in my opinion, the PE is further from neutral than the teflon.


Jon Risch
RE: Actually...., posted on November 2, 2009 at 04:48:00
Bom
Audiophile

Posts: 81
Joined: March 19, 2001
 Hello Jon,

Have you noticed that 89259 has slightly different in white insulation? I found one cable has something like foam whereas newer cable has somelike plastic to me.

thank you

RE: Actually...., posted on November 2, 2009 at 17:17:22
Jon Risch
Bored Member

Posts: 6117
Joined: April 4, 2000
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 1999
 I have seen about three different cosmetic versions of 89259.

The oldest was a cable that had a clear bronze jacket, pretty much a very light brown but totally see-through, and an identification strip down one side marked 89259, etc., and the copper braid was easily visible through it. The surface of the jacket was almost totally smooth, probably the thickest of the three I have seen.

The foamed center core has a slight skin of solid material that was indented with the braid weave pattern from when it was extruded. If you cut it, the foam was visible right away under the skin. The center wire had the foam adhered to it like a Death Grip.

A later version had a light grey jacket, still see-through with pretty much everything else the same, except the foamed core was not as clearly indented, and the center wire was not as firmly entombed.

The latest buy of 89259 had a dark grey jacket that was opaque, the numbers marked on the jacket, and the insides pretty much the same as the second batch. The outside of the jacket was wrinkled and creased slighty with the pattern of the braid, definitely the thinnest of the jackets.

I haven't bought any in the last couple of years, so I don't know what the appearance is now.

FWIW, I didn't hear any significant changes from one batch to the other, in fact, the burn-in/break-in process was the dominant changes in the sound. Once burned-in, they all sounded pretty much the same.

I personally thought the older stuff with the clear bronze jacket looked the nicest, as it complimented the natural color of the copper, and the outer surface being smooth also looked good.

Jon Risch
thank you..nt., posted on November 3, 2009 at 05:51:24
Bom
Audiophile

Posts: 81
Joined: March 19, 2001
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