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Jolida 402 Tube Tuner

148.63.41.219

Posted on September 19, 2009 at 13:01:27
catama
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Location: Nor. Cal.
Joined: January 26, 2009
Just purchased a used Jolida 402 tube tuner on Audiogon and it will be arriving soon. Would appreciate any suggestions for tube rolling and antenna suggestions. I live in a rural area with limited number of stations, but I get a very good jazz station on the local NPR netwrok. I have a Cayin A-88T integrated tube amp and Onix Mini-strata speakers. Thanks in advance!

RE: Jolida 402 Tube Tuner - Antenna update, posted on November 10, 2009 at 20:03:24
catama
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Location: Nor. Cal.
Joined: January 26, 2009
Well Mr. Bailey, I am one step closer to the major antenna upgrade that you recommend.

I was given a magnum dynalab ST-2 antenna to play with and decided to give it a whirl. I tried it indoors next to a window, in the attic crawlspace of my house and lastly on my roof. The roof was the best location. I also went to www.fmfool.com and got a list of all the fm stations broadcasting in my area. Using the list and the internet I determined that the overwhelming majority of the stations, including the two that I was most interested in receiving well, were located northeast of me. Following your line of sight advice, I placed the antenna on my roof, strapped to the chimney so that it was in the clearest line facing northeast. I noticed an increase in the gain, the reception improved and my jazz station comes in crystal clear.

Consider me a very happy believer in the importance of a good antenna and some homework to align it properly. This Jolida tuner rocks!

RE: Jolida 402 Tube Tuner, posted on October 7, 2009 at 18:21:16
catama
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Location: Nor. Cal.
Joined: January 26, 2009
Got the tuner and hooked it up. Have to say the sound is warm and tubey, but not breathtaking. I suspect it may have to do with the tubes Jolida uses in their equipment. They are usually contemporary Chinese tubes and not the best quality. I'm gonna ask Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio for his choices to replace the tubes. The unit has 2 12AX7's and 2 12AT7's. As far as the tuner component is concerned, it works quite well and brings in a boatload of stations with a simple dipole. The jazz station I listen to, KXJZ in Sacramento, comes in loud and clear and very musical. The seller took very good care of this unit, so I lucked out. It is in mint condition. Thanks to all of you who responded. I'll post an update when I roll the tubes.

RE: Jolida 402 Tube Tuner, posted on October 16, 2009 at 22:00:25
catama
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Location: Nor. Cal.
Joined: January 26, 2009
UPDATE: Replaced the stock tubes with NOS Mullards from Kevin Deal and the improvement was very noticeable.

The unit had EH 12AX7's and Jolida brand 12AT7's. Replaced them with Mullard CV4004 and CV4024 tubes. First thing I noticed was that some of the brassy harshness was gone and the sound was more liquid, more refined and tighter. The midrange in particular was expansive, very smooth and pleasing. The high end was well defined and easy on the ears. Overall, I'd say the sound was on a par with CD quality. Very happy with the tuner now that I have rolled the tubes. I've heard that the tuner did not get great reviews, but I couldn't be happier. Thanks, Kevin!

RE: Jolida 402 Tube Tuner, posted on October 17, 2009 at 05:08:11
Neff
The Mullard CV4004 is a seriously great tube.

IMO rolling tubes is agood deal more expensive than replacing two coupling capacitors., posted on October 17, 2009 at 00:30:22
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 11394
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
No capacitor being a lot better than any capacitor IMO.

I'm still wondering what the hard to understand bits were in my original reply. I can always improve my explanations.




Warmest

Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger

And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!

'Still not saluting.'

http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm

RE: Jolida 402 Tube Tuner, posted on September 25, 2009 at 04:29:33
stellavox
Audiophile

Posts: 102
Joined: June 23, 2004
I worked on one. It uses someone's FM tuner/multiplex board coupled with a tube output stage. One item I'd opine that Jolida overlooked is a "cheap" electrolytic cap in the output of the multiplex stage that couples the audio to the output stage. Replacing that with a better one (I used Elna Cerafine) improved the sound noticeably.

A problem I couldn't fix was that the tuning was slightly off. It uses a Phase Locked Loop whose frequency is set by a crystal with no on-board adjustment.

Didn't try tube rolling

Charles

RE: Jolida 402 Tube Tuner, posted on September 25, 2009 at 16:26:56
catama
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Location: Nor. Cal.
Joined: January 26, 2009
Thanks, Charles. It hasn't arrived yet, so I can' report on its performance. I did see that Underwood HiFi will modify it for better quality. They may also replace the caps as you did. I may look into that at a later date.

RE: Jolida 402 Tube Tuner, posted on September 21, 2009 at 15:03:17
catama
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Location: Nor. Cal.
Joined: January 26, 2009
Thank you, Mr. Bailey, I appreciate your response. I am very much a neophyte when it comes to tuners and antennas, so a lot of what you wrote is hard for me to understand. I purchased the Jolida because I own their tube CD player and their tube phono preamp and have been very happy with the sound from these two components. I wanted that warm tube sound from a tuner.

Using a dipole antenna, I receive the jazz station that I like on my solid state tuner (Parasound) quite well. From what you have written, I gather that the fact that the Jolida uses tubes in the output stage doesn't require a special antenna since the tuner section is solid state. I can live with that.

At some point in time I may want to invest a lot of time and money in getting better reception, but for now I think I'll stick to the dipole.

Thanks again.

Anything you want me to explain, I'll give it a shot!, posted on September 27, 2009 at 00:58:32
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 11394
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
I would also suggest that you dig around here to read the occasional but enthusiastic posts where folk have confirmed for themselves the value of a good (directional-with-gain) antenna aimed at stations they want, driving the tuner hard on all the stations they want.

You may find that experimenting with aiming your dipole, if you haven't yet, might improve things for that jazz station. Yes, dipoles are directional, SFA gain though!


Warmest

Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger

And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!

'Still not saluting.'

http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm

Email me for the rhombic antenna article, ideal for the country. That is not a tube tuner!, posted on September 21, 2009 at 14:20:57
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 11394
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
It has a tubed audio output stage, probably a single twin-triode for left and right in one tube.

There are no valve RF stages in it. Valve RF stages can have real advantages# for today's conditions. Solid state tuners built so as to have those advantages are around. # Ask?

Jolida is not an 'RF / FM expert company' and will have used application notes for someone else's chips. Being SS, at least it won't need to be driven quite so hard by the antenna as most valve tuners would.

When considering FM we need to have a good grasp of what antenna set-up might be needed to match up to the desired stations' power, distances and bearings - as part of the package, and at the same time.

You are building a radio based music reception system, and the antenna is an integral part of the results you'll hear. In your situation a good enough antenna (lots of gain), and mast, and rotator - can approach the cost of the tuner.

You may also have then decided to buy a tuner with selectable RF bandwidths.

Reception in the country - can - be simpler in the sense that one antenna or direction may be able to cover several transmitters in a given town.

You will need a directional antenna with gain, to get at all close to the tuner's music potential. And you will need more antenna gain than most people do - longer and thus heavier and a higher wind load - and a stronger mast. If you go with one antenna and a rotator the set-up has to be good enough for your most difficult station. FM is dependent on line of sight reception, especially stereo. Physics.

There just might be a far cheaper, and far better performing, DIY alternative - to the cost of a long boom yagi, rotator and mast.

BUT - without your own research effort you won't know if it is feasible for where you are. In any case, this information* will also be vital with a rotator set-up anyway.

*? Map the station's transmitter's bearings onto your 'house and block' plans with North marked on it. Someone who approved your house has them, at least. Only then you can determine how many stations are on bearings within say plus or minus 15 degrees from your home.

Then read the 'rhombic-wire DIY FM antenna' article, which you will have from me, after you've emailed me.

They are directional - and even when sized for indoor use on a ceiling for FM wavelengths - can be very effective. Let's say you have one town with >1 station about 20-30 miles away, and you aim a 'doubled spread rhombic' at it with good gain and a fairly wide reception angle (beam-width). Now, what if there was a more distant and weak college station - worth bothering with - but close in frequency to a station in that town, and close (say 20 degrees) to that first antenna's axis. You could add another rhombic with a narrower beam-width, and switch to that antenna to listen to that station, and get good clear reception, because you have effectively nulled out the other station in the RF mix coming down into the tuner. OR connect the town antenna out of phase to the 'single station rhombic' giving even better nulling.

Your single rotatable Yagi is unlikely to be as good, for such a job.

Large outdoor rhombics were used to communicate with the Apollo missions.

As each of the four equal sides begin to approach one wavelength of a transmitted frequency a rhombic has 6db of gain, a twin has 12db. A single wire item with sides 12 feet long, still suitable for many room's ceilings, will have 6db of gain at 88 mhz, and about 7.4db at 108mhz. Making it from twin ribbon (300 ohm antenna cable?) will double the gain.

While not physically exhausting there is a fair amount of work, and a lot of preparatory research for this option. OTOH your reception is likely to be far better, and for far less money. Your own time budget is a factor.

Compared to getting reception nailed, tube-rolling is a very low-order issue. Along with interconnects and power cords.

To sum up, the message for anyone who wants the best results from a given investment in FM, is to treat FM as a radio system and research the reception issues that exist where you are.

;-) Simple, really!


Warmest

Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger

And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!

'Still not saluting.'

http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm

RE: Email me for the rhombic antenna article, ideal for the country. That is not a tube tuner!, posted on September 24, 2009 at 20:12:17
robert.zygadlo
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Joined: September 2, 2009
Hi Timbo, it's me from Perth, West Australia again!

I live in the south west suburbs of Perth. I have two independant stations (one to the north west, about 3km away, the other to the north,(Perth direction, about 25 km away)and the other is ABC classic FM, which is relayed from the ABC in Perth to the booster tower in the WEST - DARLING RANGES (as are all the television stations also).

Therefore, my main antenna, which is a large high gain type, points towards the booster and doubles as my FM antenna also(as do other FM listeners).

The independant stations apparently transmit omnidirectionally from their locations. ABC is directional (therefore the need to point the antenna to the west)

As I mentioned in another post, I have a SCOTT LT 110 valve tuner. It receives a 75% signal strength on all the above stations(so do my solid state tuners with signal strength meters).

I have no excessive noise or reception problems....nothing to really complain about.....but............

In your honest opinion, should I be using an antenna rotator?

Shuold I be using a masthead amplifier for extra gain?

I have never been able to get a staright answer here in Perth on this because no one gives a damn, so it seems!

Comments will be appreciated.

Cheers!

If you have a loft build a rhombic for the other direction add a 300/75 balun and a combiner and you're done., posted on September 25, 2009 at 00:34:58
Timbo in Oz
Audiophile

Posts: 11394
Location: Canberra - in the ACT - SE Australia
Joined: January 30, 2002
Want the rhombic article?

""The independant stations apparently transmit omnidirectionally from their locations. ABC is directional (therefore the need to point the antenna to the west)"

So what you're aiming at is a Broadcast Australia repeater site for the ABC and SBS, and also used by the commercials? NOT the main Perth transmission site which is omni directional? here -

http://www2b.abc.net.au/reception/frequencyfinder/asp/details.asp?transmissionid=3887.

It is common for repeaters to be aimed so the beam is like a fan.

As the independent stations are transmitting from other sites, two DIY rhombics - if you have room and time - aimed at each, up in your loft, are still likely cheaper than a rotator, even with a 3-input combiner, or two, two-input combiners.

IF the compass bearing to that distant Perth station, which is likely weak at your home, crosses your home in a convenient fashion, you may just have sufficient room to build a fairly long-sided one for it, which wouldn't hurt.

Your decision may also depend on what others in the home might want - to watch or listen to - when you want to listen to either of the two low power stations.


Warmest

Timothy Bailey
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger

And gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!

'Still not saluting.'

http://www.theanalogdept.com/tim_bailey.htm

RE: If you have a loft build a rhombic for the other direction add a 300/75 balun and a combiner and you're done., posted on September 27, 2009 at 04:02:58
robert.zygadlo
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Joined: September 2, 2009
Thanks Timbo.
Wow, this looks a bit more complicated than I thought.
As I'm mainly listening to ABC FM I will probably leave it at that until I have time to look at a rotor possibly. I know someone who will part with theirs for nix.

Cheers.

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