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Has anyone tried these.

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Posted on January 7, 2017 at 04:28:22
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005



I have always been very fond of the JJ tubes sonically.I just didn't care for the reliability of some of their octal output tubes.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

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RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 7, 2017 at 18:23:03
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10044
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 I wish one of the larger vendors would curve-tracing the various reissues, or at least test for distortion. There's no other way to get a handle on their real specifications.


 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 8, 2017 at 03:49:29
vinnie2
Audiophile

Posts: 4481
Location: North Carolina
Joined: September 28, 2013
 Don't forget your ears...... : )

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 8, 2017 at 18:41:27
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 Two 6sn7s from two different makers will sound different to your ears.

They will sound different for technical reasons that will show up in the curves.

The technical differences, that will show up in the curves, will show up in the distortion measurements.

The reason to run the plate curves on a curve tracer and test the tube for harmonic distortion and then use the tube with the lowest distortion is for the sake of the ears.


Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 10, 2017 at 03:24:24
Mechans
Audiophile

Posts: 1804
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 23, 2004
 Couldn't agree more. I don't doubt tracers have a serious contribution to make, but sound is king.

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 10, 2017 at 03:40:18
Mechans
Audiophile

Posts: 1804
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 23, 2004
 I am curious now that you ask. Early on in my renewed interest in audio many years ago now, I had a 40 watt pp EL 34 Chinese tube amp with 6SN7 drivers. They were EH, a friend put in some inexpensive Sylvania 6SN7 GTBs and I loved it. Next, I switched the outputs fo JJ E34LS. Never thought about JJ 6SN7S were they available? My whole tube rolling hobby started with chasing down every last 6SN7 that I thought could make a difference. Now I have to get some JJs.
The input inputs BTW were 12AT7S, should have been AX I learned years later and went after all of them and many more.

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 12, 2017 at 07:34:15
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 Where do you think the "sound" comes from?

The shape of the output signal from a tube stage is dependent on the transfer function of the tube.

The shape of the output wave form is the spacing of the grid lines on the plate curves along the load line.

"sound is king"

The shape of the output signal IS the "sound".

Audio electronics isn't magic.

The audio that comes out of a tube stage is a function of the science of the tube involved.

A tube with shitty (uneven) spacing between the grid lines along the load line on the plate curves will give shitty (distorted) audio output. Period!

I get tired of all this BS talk of magic dust.

Before you go making proclamations about subjects that you clearly don't understand read a technical book and learn something for Pete's sake.

Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 12, 2017 at 09:59:41
Mechans
Audiophile

Posts: 1804
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 23, 2004
 Trey I have no doubt that sound can be measured in precise terms represented by tracings. I just don't know which formulae represent the differences in the sound I hear. If the best most enjoyable sound it is always a matter of approaching zero distortion why don't those tubes simply dominate with their distortion levels printed on the box???
There in lies the rub.

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 12, 2017 at 10:09:50
Mechans
Audiophile

Posts: 1804
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 23, 2004
 Also you have implored me to learn the physic of sound. I have a post graduate degree, but always ready to learn something.
Now how about you, don't you believe all of,us tube magic people. We like tubes because they bring something we call magic, to me it is greatly improved imaging amongst other things. It might do your soul well to find thatyour firmly empiric world view, can be enhanced by things unmeasurable.

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 12, 2017 at 10:50:47
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 "We like tubes because they bring something we call magic"

I like (triode) tubes because they are the most linear amplifying devices ever made. That helps to make the music that comes out of our speakers sound right (like magic).

".....can be enhanced by things unmeasurable"

There are certainly things in this world that are unmeasurable but the linearity (lack of harmonic distortion) of a tube is not one of them.

"I have a post graduate degree.."

In audio electronics?


Tre'

Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 12, 2017 at 12:10:21
Tre'
Industry Professional

Posts: 17294
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: February 9, 2002
 "...why don't those tubes simply dominate with their distortion levels printed on the box"

Well I don't know about distortion specs printed on the boxes but the linear tubes do dominate.

6sn7, 2a3, etc. are very linear tubes and that's why they are so widely use for audio.

BTW It's not sound that is measured by the traces of a curve tracer. It's the electrical function of the tube that is being represented. But the electrical function of the tube determines the distortion (or lack of) of the output wave form. If the tube's function is non-linear then the output wave form will be distorted (misshapen).

"...best most enjoyable sound..."

I think you are now getting to the root of the issue.

There are different types of distortion and not all distortion is heard as equally detrimental to the perceived sound.

Then there's the question of personal preferences. The person who often listens to live un-amplified instruments might have a better understanding of which playback systems sound more like the real thing and which systems do not, with no regard for personal preferences.

Others might like the sound of a system based solely on personal preference, having nothing to do with what the instruments actually sound like and nothing to do with anything technical.

I guess in that case it's all "magic".


Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"

 

RE: Has anyone tried these., posted on January 12, 2017 at 13:40:41
Mechans
Audiophile

Posts: 1804
Location: East Coast
Joined: May 23, 2004
 In audio electronics?
No.

 

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