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6N3C-E from Jim McShane

99.235.111.161
Posted on February 4, 2010 at 08:15:22
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
 I ordered two quads of these tubes from Jim after a bad experience with ordering them from E-bay. The tubes arrived yesterday after only 4 or 5 days. The way they were packed, they could have survived a fall over Niagra Falls and still been good!
There has been a lot of hype about these tubes on Tube Asylum but frankly I was sceptical. I have used some Russian tubes in the past and while they had been servicable, never anything special. I have put only about 5 hours on the first quad and I can say that I am really surprised and impressed. They replaced a quad of Mullard xf2 in my amp and while I wont say(yet) that they are better(more like different) they are obviously very fine tubes. They seem clearer and more transparent then the Mullards--more like a GEC KT66. In fact these may be the poor man's GEC KT66.
I am running them in a Rogue Audio Stereo 90 power amp which comes standard with EH KT88 output tubes(don't use KT-88 much anymore, not even the Gold Lion re-issues that I have---too many good 6L6's, EL34's and KT66's around--and now the 6n3c-e). So this amp must put some juice on the plates to run KT-88's. In my amp, biased about 5ma less than I bias KT-88, these 6N3C-E's barely get warm and run cooler that just about any other tube I have tried. Bias has held rock steady so far. I am hoping things will only get better as they break-in further.
And these things are only $50 FOR A QUAD!!!! Not some risky,untested,unmatched quad from Flee-Bay, but a fully tested and guaranteed quad from trusted Asylum Member Jim Mcshane.
Its a no brainer guys. Give em a try!

 

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"6N3C-E" - Any time I see that I cringe, posted on February 4, 2010 at 08:20:35
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55316
Joined: April 5, 2000
 How P suddenly becomes an N... :)

There needs to be some reasonable and more or less standard way of naming those Russian tubes. Perhaps the transliteration is the most sound approach, with this tube then becoming 6P3S-E.

Otherwise there is just too much confusion.


 

RE: "6N3C-E" - Any time I see that I cringe, posted on February 4, 2010 at 08:40:13
Jim McShane
Dealer

Posts: 5910
Location: Chicago
Joined: January 13, 2003
 It would reduce confusion Victor, no doubt. I call the tube the 6P3S-E, but I've had people email and ask if they could get the 6N3C-E instead.

The Cyrillic characters are tough for us Anglos to deal with! :~)

 

RE: "6N3C-E" - Any time I see that I cringe, posted on February 4, 2010 at 08:43:06
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
 Sorry Victor. You are right-even Jim calls them 6P3C-E. My bad. Still great tubes for a cheap price whatever you call them.

 

That's why I stopped buying those Hebrew tubes, as well. nt, posted on February 4, 2010 at 09:48:49
viridian
 nt

 

RE: "6N3C-E" - Any time I see that I cringe, posted on February 4, 2010 at 10:28:14
ironbut
Audiophile

Posts: 1370
Location: OR
Joined: February 21, 2004
 Excuse my laziness, but are the 6P3S-E a drop in for the KT88/6550 with just a different bias applied?

 

Jim, are you selling these now?, posted on February 4, 2010 at 10:36:06
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10044
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 I didn't realize you had decided to do that. Given the work you must put in to match them, it's a steal at $50/quad. You know, the build quality of these tubes reminds me a great deal of big-brand tubes I was buying in the '60s and '70s. Can't wait to hear them in my own gear!

 

RE: "6N3C-E" - Any time I see that I cringe, posted on February 4, 2010 at 10:40:22
LinuxGuru
Audiophile

Posts: 582
Location: European Union
Joined: November 11, 2008
 Nope, only 20W plate dissipation. Its a drop-in replacement of 6L6 (and that is clearly stated in Russian tube catalog). You can use them instead of 6550/KT66 under certain circumstances but output power of amplifier will be max 30-40W in AB-class push-pull.

 

:) nt, posted on February 4, 2010 at 11:22:04
Victor Khomenko
Manufacturer

Posts: 55316
Joined: April 5, 2000
 .


 

RE: 6N3C-E from Jim McShane, posted on February 4, 2010 at 11:39:58
Valva Actual
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: PNW, USA
Joined: December 19, 2009
 I am interested to hear from some people about the SOUND of the tube. I don't care about the alphabet, the dealers, the customs issues, the shipping charges, the hype, etc. These are tubes, we are using them in audio amps. How do they sound?

Specifically, I need to know if they are all as unremarkable as mine. Assuming those I got ("coin base") are typical, they pass along lots of detail, but are a little lean sounding in my triode-wired Cary amp. In non-vocal music they are tolerable, but I won't be buying more of these.

 

RE: 6N3C-E from Jim McShane, posted on February 4, 2010 at 12:23:56
twystd
Audiophile

Posts: 2723
Location: Austin,Texas
Joined: December 9, 2000
 Well there are LOTS of posts including several from me, that they sound great. Not going to wax poetically about it. Michael Samra has posted many, many times with very favorable comparisons to highly regarded tubes. The only time I've found them to sound thin is if they are biased much under 45 ma. I run mine at the max 21 watts of dissipation and they sure don't sound thin.

Part of the problem is people don't know what to call them, as Victor pointed out, so if you do a search of the archives it can be difficult. Some call them 6N3C-E, which is close to the Cyrillic alphabet 6n3cE, while others use the western translation of 6P3S-E (western alphabet), and even others further confuse things with a bastardization of the two, such as 6N3S-E, or 6P3C-E. I prefer the western version of 6P3S-E, if for no other reason than that what the old eastern block ebay sellers call them. If you do an ebay search you won't get many hits with 6N3C-E, while you will with 6P3S-E.

I built a tweaked ST-70 based around the K&K driver board for my brother, using these tubes. This amp is in triode mode, and is the best sounding PP amp I've heard. I can't believe an ST-70 can sound that good, I guess those old transformers really are very good. BTW we replaced real Mullard EL-34s, with these tubes and never looked back.

twystd

 

RE: 6N3C-E from Jim McShane, posted on February 4, 2010 at 13:39:04
fredtr
Audiophile

Posts: 1987
Location: Phoenix
Joined: January 4, 2005
 Been using these for a few months in an 8b. Posted this before, my guess is that they have more high end (high frequencies) than a lot of other tubes I have tried. Was going to measure the response curve but haven't gotten around to it. What I (think I) hear are the mids a bit back, or attenuated because the highs are so pronounced.

 

It would be good to hear from other Carey owners, posted on February 4, 2010 at 14:38:21
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 15703
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 I got these tubes 3-4 years ago, untested, unmatched. I use them in a pair of Quicksilver Mini-mites. This is a pretty low-end amp, but they sound better balanced and with a better top end than the T-S 6L6GC coke bottles. I don't think they are the best sounding tubes I have tried in my little amps (KT66 are), but they are a good tube in my book. Not thin at all, esp in the mids. I can't comment on bass, as I have LS3/5A speakers.

 

RE: 6N3C-E from Jim McShane, posted on February 4, 2010 at 14:45:44
OldManRiver
Audiophile

Posts: 130
Location: Wisconsin
Joined: August 29, 2009
 I'm with you,nothing special.I put the 6L6 winged "c"s back in after about 40 hours and never looked back.I had them biased hot and still was not impressed with cold and lifeless sound.To each his own I guess.

 

Amplifier voicing, posted on February 4, 2010 at 14:53:45
diamondsouled
 I think one thing that people have to remember when subbing these tubes in different amps is that those amps may originally have been voiced with the particular tube it was sold with in mind.

Cheers

Lar

 

RE: Jim, are you selling these now?, posted on February 4, 2010 at 15:57:40
Jim McShane
Dealer

Posts: 5910
Location: Chicago
Joined: January 13, 2003
 A bunch of guys here asked me to do it since they liked the tube a lot but weren't thrilled about using their amps as tube testers. I passed a couple times, but eventually I finally agreed.

It is a lot of work, but I promised I'd do it so I'll stock them from here on. A lot of folks here have helped me, I like to return the favor when I can.

And while the tubes I send out will be top quality, there are quite a few I reject - about 25% so far. Almost all are for grid current/gas issues.

 

The market isn't that smart., posted on February 4, 2010 at 16:25:43
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10044
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 Many people apparently replace tubes, decide the new ones sound bad without even checking basic electrical performance, then condemn those perfectly good tubes forever. It's just another symptom of under-educated consumers.

 

RE: 6N3C-E from Jim McShane, posted on February 4, 2010 at 16:26:09
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
 The sound of these tubes seems to depend a lot on the amp. To me in my amp, they sound more like a KT66 than anything else. GEC KT66 have the most linear, extended high frequencies of any tube I have tried, and these sound kinda similar although not quite as smooth and extended. I could see how they might seem thin or bright in the wrong system, but in mine they provide clarity and detail compared to the Mullard EL34, which are bloomier and more rounded and smooth.
I also find the bass on these very good--extended, clear and deep.I plan to do a comparison survey of my power tubes now that I have a worthy source (new J.A. Michell Orbe turntable/Tecnoarm--Benz Woodbody coming Monday!)I will then be in a position to rate these tubes more accurately. But for now I think they sound great! They have their strengths and weaknesses like all power tubes. Thats why I roll. But at $50/quad the value is awesome (in my system).

 

Don't know how you do it!, posted on February 4, 2010 at 16:37:37
twystd
Audiophile

Posts: 2723
Location: Austin,Texas
Joined: December 9, 2000
 I have a pretty good idea what you have to pay for them with shipping. With a 25% rejection rate, all the hassle of matching them up, and boxing and shipping, doesn't seem worth it. You are providing a valuable service, I'm sure folks wouldn't mind paying $70.00 a quad. I know I would for the QC and matching. I don't want you to give up on this as not worth it, certainly what I'd do at $50.00 a quad.

twystd

 

RE: "6N3C-E" - Any time I see that I cringe, posted on February 4, 2010 at 18:15:51
ecir38
Audiophile

Posts: 570
Location: LOUISIANA
Joined: May 9, 2007
 This thread has Mike using them in the citation 2.

Brad

 

RE: Amplifier voicing, posted on February 4, 2010 at 20:27:28
R Browne
Audiophile

Posts: 1710
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: January 14, 2002
 Fortunately my Audio Note P2 SE amp was designed/voiced around the Sovtek 5881 which for all practical purposes is the same tube, although may be sonically somewhat different. I think they sound fine and in addition I also like the re-issue Tung-Sol 5881 in my amp.

 

RE: 6N3C-E from Jim McShane, posted on February 4, 2010 at 21:15:01
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Mendel
I am the original advocate of these tubes along with my buddy Twystd,AKA Big Nose ( little inside joke) but anyway,50 dollars a quad is peanuts because if you buy them from eastern europe,thats fine but you have to buy in lots of 100 like we do to get them to match up.
If you buy four,your going to pay 24 to 28 dollars for the quad plus 14 to 16 to ship them and they are NOT matched. For the 6 to 10 dollars extra to buy a match quad from Jim, its the absolute smartest thing you can do because matched tubes give you more power,lower distortion,better response,and much longer life.In other words,the sound is MUCH MUCH better and the way he will match the tubes will be the best tube mod you can do to your amp. I can't believe he only charging 50 a quad.I sure wouldn't do all that work for 8 dollars plus have a big investment tied up.Im glad he is doing it tho. Thats the way to go if you only buy one or two quads.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: Don't know how you do it!, posted on February 4, 2010 at 21:19:23
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 I agree twystd
50 dollars is nothing. I was thinking he would charge 55 or 60.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Sovtek 5881, posted on February 4, 2010 at 21:47:33
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10044
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 I haven't inspected the Sovtek up close, but based on photographs I see on eBay and elsewhere, it appears to be exactly the same tube as these.

 

RE: Amplifier voicing, posted on February 5, 2010 at 04:46:24
OldManRiver
Audiophile

Posts: 130
Location: Wisconsin
Joined: August 29, 2009
 My VTL monos also came stock with the Sovtek 5881's,never liked the sound of these tubes.The Sovteks were replaced with the "tube of the month" and biased to 45mA,burned in for 40-50 hours and still sounded cold and lifeless.It comes down to what one considers as a good sounding tube and in my case I could not live with them.
I'm sorry if this is not what some "want" to hear,I just want to point out that its not all roses when it comes to these tubes.Do you like the sound of every single tube you rolled into your rig,something tells me probably not.

 

RE: 6N3C-E from Jim McShane, posted on February 5, 2010 at 05:15:29
SETdude
Audiophile

Posts: 3944
Joined: January 20, 2000
 Whether a tube will sound good or bad depends on the circuit...period.

There is no 'best' tube. I ordered a quad from Jim 'cause $50 in this hobby is not much of a risk. Additionally, many of the tubes on epay appear to be later production and that may make a difference. Sellers read these boards and some of the recent auctions have photos that appear to be used to make the date code unreadable. "-)

Twysted,

I traded triodes for Pentodes but I still luv ya! :-)

 

RE: 6N3C-E from Jim McShane, posted on February 5, 2010 at 05:58:37
Mendel
Audiophile

Posts: 1207
Location: GTA
Joined: January 17, 2009
 Michael you are so right. When Jim finally agreed to get these I was the first one in line. Will need lots of power tubes over the next two or three decades and of course one wants to have good sound. The Gold Lion reissues are OK at $55 a pop, I have been fortunate to locate a supply of used GEC KT66 at $75 a pop and used Mullard xf2 at $40 a pop and used RCA blackplates at $40 a pop....hey, this is getting expensive!!!
And these Russian tubes really sound great. Thanks to you and Twystd for turning me on to these.
Mendel

 

RE: 6N3C-E (I Mean 6P3S-E) from Jim McShane, posted on February 5, 2010 at 07:30:24
Jim McShane
Dealer

Posts: 5910
Location: Chicago
Joined: January 13, 2003
 Mike,

Thanks for the kind words.

I meant what I said earlier - a lot of people here have been a big help to me - and I've gotten a lot of support from here. I know $49.95 is a "short" deal, but it's one small way of saying thanks to so many people. I'll hold the price as long as I can.

For the guys that don't like the tube, so be it! I'm sorry it doesn't work for you, but maybe next time...

BTW, I've finished initial tests on all the tubes, and the reject rate for this batch was:

1. 12% failed visual inspection - all for heavy loss of gettering from small air leakage into the bottle. These all were 1984 dated tubes and (just coincidence) I hit all them first it seems. The last half of the batch had no visual inspection failures.

2. 75% + fail the gas/grid current test before burn in. I reallly urge you NOT to use these in an amp without burn-in first. It apears to be fairly risky, because a lot of the tubes have large gas issues out of the box. Whether they'll fix themselves before they blow your amp up is questionable.

3. 1% failed after testing.

So the batch yield is 87%. Not too bad!

 

I do not get your point, posted on February 5, 2010 at 08:49:13
Stale
Audiophile

Posts: 3263
Location: So. California
Joined: August 3, 2001
 Цурилиц ор Латин Алпхабет, И до нот сее тхе дифференце.

:-)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

 

No Mikey, it's Mr. Beeg Nose to you!;-) (nt), posted on February 5, 2010 at 08:50:33
twystd
Audiophile

Posts: 2723
Location: Austin,Texas
Joined: December 9, 2000
 .

 

Sound, posted on February 5, 2010 at 10:33:22
Mossback
Audiophile

Posts: 1871
Location: Washington, the State
Joined: November 17, 2001
 Extended, dynamic, lively and musical. This mostly via LS3/5A’s or sometimes with Quad 899 ESL’s.
~50mA with a direct comparison to smoke glass Mullard EL37, vintage brown base smoke glass GEC-KT66 and vintage GEC KT88 in several amps.
I sold the EL-37’s and most of my GEC KT-66’s. I like how the commie tubes sound but mostly I like the price and now that Jim stocks them it’s a done deal. Thanks Mike and Twisted…Dan

 

RE: Sound, posted on February 5, 2010 at 10:36:12
Mossback
Audiophile

Posts: 1871
Location: Washington, the State
Joined: November 17, 2001
 I respect the fact there are some here with the Cary gear that think otherwise. I have a good friend who has heard them and not been so pleased as well. He likes the vintage GEC's better.

 

I want to clarify something else., posted on February 6, 2010 at 02:31:04
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 Some people are inclined to believe that if you buy the 6n3ce tubes dated 1981 and beyond,they are somehow sonically inferior to the ones dated from the 1960s and 1970s.I am here to tell you there isn't one iota of truth to that statement.
I had just purchased another 100 of these tubes from Russia and they are all early to mid 70s and mid 70s to early 80s The sound is virtually identical with maybe a slight edge in musical body going to later dated tubes. This turned out well because I got mostly 1971 and 1974 and 1979 dated tubes.I also got 1980 and 1981 tubes so this allowed me to make an objective comparison.
BTW Jim,you are welcome and I meant every word of it.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

Victor is of Eastern Euro ancestry so he understand the cyrillic alphabet., posted on February 6, 2010 at 11:53:28
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
 The Russian and Ukranian sellers advertise them as 6N3Ce so maybe they do that so we don't get confused.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

You might be shortchanging yourself, posted on February 6, 2010 at 19:56:46
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10044
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 None of those tests are meaningful unless accompanied by electrical measurements. I've seen this repeatedly in my own amps. I originally think a tube change sounds good (or bad), only to discover when I sweep the amp that I've degraded the response or distortion. It almost never means the substitute tubes are defective, only that they have different characteristics that must be accomodated with circuit changes.

 

Stop it! Stop it, I say!, posted on February 7, 2010 at 09:29:40
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10044
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 "I had just purchased another 100 of these tubes from Russia "

I won't be able to afford these much longer, will I?

 

RE: "6N3C-E" - Any time I see that I cringe, posted on February 7, 2010 at 11:13:45
ironbut
Audiophile

Posts: 1370
Location: OR
Joined: February 21, 2004
 Thanks Brad,.. exactly what I was looking for!

 

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