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tube brand versus manufacture origin

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Posted on October 30, 2009 at 07:42:10
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 494
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
 If a Mullard brand tube (eg 6DJ8) is manufactured in Holland it is still "tooled" as a Mullard correct?

Jonesy

"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 09:44:33
astralnavigator
Audiophile

Posts: 579
Location: North York, Ontario
Joined: June 28, 2009
 If it's made in a Holland plant it uses that plant's tooling for that tube type.

You don't think they moves tooling around for branding purposes, do you?

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 10:26:08
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 494
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
 Admittedly I thought so. Funny that I never stopped to really think about it all these years.

Here's what made me wonder...

I just won a quad of Mullard 6DJ8s off eBay. 2 of them are made in Britain, the other 2 are made in Holland.

In this case I guess any sound characteristics, be them perceived or actual, would be attributed to the plant of manufacture.

In other words the the Mullard "made in Great Britain" would have the "Mullard sound." And the Mullard "made in Holland" would have the "Amperex sound".

(edit... I always knew that with RCA brands and such. For some reason I looked at the Mullard brand differently. Brain dead?)

Jonesy



"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 13:55:15
astralnavigator
Audiophile

Posts: 579
Location: North York, Ontario
Joined: June 28, 2009
 "In other words the the Mullard "made in Great Britain" would have the "Mullard sound." And the Mullard "made in Holland" would have the "Amperex sound"."

That's it, exactly.

You'll find Mullards made in Australia, or Japan, sound quite different from UK Mullards of Holland Philips. Every plant had not only their own tooling, but much more important, their own sources of materials, particular process or manufacturing twists, and quality processes.

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 14:30:39
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 3116
Joined: March 26, 2001
 That is not my experience. I have not heard any Australian produced tubes, but I have plenty of UK, Holland and Japanese versions. The sound amongst all these tubes is pretty much the same. Shades of gray. They all used the same tooling. The UK and Japanese versions are perhaps a bit softer on the top versus the Holland versions.

The BIG difference in the 6DJ8 is the actual structure of the tube. This did change quite dramatically over the years. Later versions used different tooling.

Plate structure is the key with Philips tooling. If we are talking about a late production Philips/Holland versus an early production the sound will be quite different. An open plate Orange Globe A-frame will sound very different versus the early closed-plate halo getter types, the classic Bugle Boy.

If we are talking about 6DJ8 built on Philips tooling no matter the country of origin the plate structure is the key. I don't care for the later versions no matter where they were produced.

Current production JJ tubes sound amazingly similiar to early production Philips tooling produced tubes. And when I look at the internal structure of a JJ I would swear is was built with early Philips tooling. Only the pins and glass envelope give away its true origins.

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 16:17:02
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1050
Location: B.C. Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
 I found with the early Amperex 6DJ8 D-Getter (58,59) much perfered over the later 1960 or so Big O getter or later small o getter.

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 21:38:50
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 3116
Joined: March 26, 2001
 I only have one pair of Amperex/Holland D-getters. They test well are quiet and nice section balance. I don't hear much difference between this version and later O getter types. I don't think I can make a firm decision with only a single pair. The D-getters may be much better, but not with the pair I own.

Unfortunately, given the price of all these tubes these days, and especially the early D-getters, I will stick with the later O-getters. I already own hundreds of this type and they do sound great.

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 23:32:25
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1050
Location: B.C. Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
 of course certain circuts will show more differences then others.
It is said that no neg feedback designs will reveal a little more as well, who knows.
That said, the big O getter from Amperex are very nice as well and I find a set above the later small o getter.
YMMV

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 16:39:19
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 494
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
 Though am still trying to figure out the whole tooling thing, I must admit my favourite in my ARC D70 were the white label Amperex Big O getter. I found the D-Getter crazy detailed (bright), though it may be revealing anomolies in my system. Running Bugle Boys small O getter now.

Mullards A-Frame (UK) working really well for me in my Counterpoint SA5. Amperex (Holland) not so much, though have only tried the O and D getter. Haven't tried an Amperex A frame.

Have many tube brands I haven't tried yet. A little slow at that sort of thing. Including some of the Japanese Kentaja mentions. Also Brimar, Valvo, Siemens. Sometimes the "hobby part" of collecting takes over the "listening part".

Jonesy

"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 21:34:29
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 3116
Joined: March 26, 2001
 Yep. Sometimes tube rolling/collecting can get out of control. I have about 500 6DJ8/6922/7308 at the moment. In all the ARC that I have owned the Philips type tubes sound best to me. Holland/UK/Japanese, all the early closed-plate types sound great.

Don't much care for the later open-plates. And I never much cared for any of the Siemans of TFK. But which tube sounds best is largely a function of the gear involved and of course personal tastes.

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 20:07:07
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1050
Location: B.C. Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
 The early Siemens E88CC (6922) (gray plates) are a hard one to beat. If you have a system that shows it, I find they are the most open and airy, alot of ambiance.
Siemens E288CC even better, but run at a much higher heater current and just to much for alot of gear. A friend fried his transformer running the E288CC.

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 08:03:32
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 3116
Joined: March 26, 2001
 Ignore the ink. Look at the etch code. If the etch code is the Heerleen plant then you have a Holland.

IMO the differences between a Mullard/UK 6DJ8 and Philips/Holland 6DJ8 is minimal. They were built on the same tooling. Ditto the Japanese clones. They are all excellent tubes especially in ARC gear.

The Mullard/UK versions are just a tad softer on the top versus the Philips/Holland. Same for the Matsushita version. At the moment that is what I am using in my D70s. The Toshiba seems to be somewhere between the Mullard/UK, Matsushita, and the Philips/Holland in terms of the top-end. I could happily live with any of them.

What I have found the most important between the Mullard/Philips is the plate structure. Early production with a closed-plate structure sounds considerably better than the latter production using an open-plate structure. Open-plate structure sounds bright, thin and flat compared to the closed-plate structure versions.

RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 30, 2009 at 16:24:54
Jonesy
Audiophile

Posts: 494
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joined: September 1, 2005
 Am going to give the tubes a close look when I receive them. Then do a little experimenting.

Jonesy

"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
RE: tube brand versus manufacture origin, posted on October 31, 2009 at 08:31:35
kentaja
Manufacturer

Posts: 3116
Joined: March 26, 2001
 Of course. That is part of the fun! I was in heavy tube rolling and experimenting about 10-15 years ago. Got a little out of control and ended up with hundreds of nice tubes. Eventually I found what I truely liked and stocked up. I think I am set for several lifetimes!

Good luck!

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