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Just A reminder about lead solder. Dont use it!

58.106.20.235
Posted on March 26, 2011 at 23:53:02
tubebuilder
 Hey guys personally I used lead solder for 30 years before I changed over to lead free. I hate the solder joints I get with lead free but if you still using lead solder your mad or you will be soon enough.


My cousin and closest Friend was tormented by head aches and finally found a doctor who cared enough to really investigate. They gave him a MRI. In his brain they found calcifications of a 70 year old man. He is 35. He is senile. He has been exposed to lead. It is cruel how it gets into your bones and then your brain and drives you mad and makes you sick. I have crumbling bones. I am only 43 I am hardly game to check my lead levels. I bet I have high lead levels. I would explain why I have arthritis so bad I can hardly move and spend my days in bed. I have a 4 year old daughter to look after. Take swimming , play with etc. Don't use lead solder. It isn't WORTH IT . I could say if you have get your levels checked but honestly I don't think there is much they can do about it. Once its in your bones . Its there for life .Don't Handel lead. Don't mess with it. Its not worth it. I wish somebody could of told me when I was 10 because that's when I started using it.

If your still using lead solder and your not using fume extraction Your a fool.

 

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I will continue to use lead solder, posted on March 27, 2011 at 07:15:43
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 if the stuff was as dangerous as your presumptive note proposes I do not think there would be any old DIY audiophiles.

Cancers occuur, usually, for a confluence of reasons. To ascribe ONE REASON for a cancer is foolsih.

So your friend was exposed to lead but we hear not how he was exposed.

If you have decided to not use lead solder, good for you.

We all need to accept the fact that life on Earth is dangerous and we are going to die.

 

Well Said ~NT, posted on March 27, 2011 at 07:21:46
Cleantimestream
Audiophile

Posts: 7551
Location: Kentucky
Joined: June 30, 2005
 ~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.

 

RE: Just A reminder about lead solder. Dont use it!, posted on March 27, 2011 at 09:05:05
Michael Koster
Manufacturer

Posts: 841
Location: Eureka, CA
Joined: October 24, 2007
 A doctor can prescribe a chelation regimen that will remove heavy metals from the body. It's a slow and rigorous process but it is possible.

It's also a fairly simple test to determine the quantities of various metals in your body.

Why not see a doctor if you think you have heavy metal poisoning?

 

RE: Just A reminder about lead solder. Don't use it!, posted on March 28, 2011 at 01:29:37
tubebuilder
 Cool My cousin is in the process of finding out what possible. I better do it too.I didn't think it was possible to do any thing about it. Thanks Micheal I will give him a call now. He is pretty upset about it in fact his whole family is. I am not so much worried about it myself.I live one day at a time.

 

RE: Just A reminder about lead solder. Dont use it!, posted on March 28, 2011 at 03:20:01
kurt s
Audiophile

Posts: 1137
Location: California
Joined: October 12, 2009
 My employer taught everyone that lead vapors don't exist in lead soldering. Because it takes a temperature of 327 degrees F to melt and a high 1740 degrees F to boil. Is this a true explanation?

Sounded good to me before, but then I also know that water boils at 212 degrees F, and yet water vapor is everywhere in the atmosphere. So now I don't believe them anymore about no lead vapor in the air. Neither do the experts on occupational safety. The concentration is something I don't know. A heavy metal vs. a light H2O molecule ought to have different behavior in a vapor form. Maybe the lead vapor falls to the floor as the element is heavier than air.

 

RE: Just A reminder about lead solder. Dont use it!, posted on March 28, 2011 at 05:14:35
tubebuilder
 I have no idea Kurt But surely just the handling is a bad idea. I haven't had my levels checked. My cousin most likely exposed himself striping lead paint.I have a forefoot amputation and a crippled arm from a motor vehicle accident so that can explain the state of my spine. But at 44 I don't think its the whole explanation . That's why I suspect lead when my cousin told me about how it calcifies the bones. I cant believe there aloud to sell lead solder still when there is a easy substitute.

I do know the fluxes are 100 times my carcinogenic then smoking. My tafe teacher told me that years ago. I walked into a radio and TV shop 12 months ago and in there they where working in booths with no ventilation a dozen of them working away. No way I would do that.I know newer fluxes supposed to be less harmfull. In places like south America they get woman to solder electronics and they die ~ 40 years of age. But there always more woman that need the 80 cents an hour.

You here stories about all electronics techys dieing of lung cancer just as you here about boilermakers dieing of bowl cancer. I think your going to hear a lot more stories about people dieing from brain cancer from mobiles in the next 20 years too. I am most worried about the massive exposure I had to asbestos 20 years ago. So I live every day like its my last as I think everybody should. Wake up well in the morning and be dam happy for the gift you have.You may not be so lucky tomorrow. That doesnt mean I take stupid risks though.

 

No-Lead Solder is Prohibited by MIL Spec, posted on March 28, 2011 at 07:25:53
Triode_Kingdom
Audiophile

Posts: 10048
Location: Central Texas
Joined: September 24, 2006
 Mil Spec prohibits the use of no-lead solder in our work. The best solution is to use fans/extractors, and for anyone concerned about handling, gloves might be an option.

 

Mad Hatter......., posted on March 28, 2011 at 07:29:04
Neff


 
Actually my brain is ok after years of soldering. However, some girls I met did not like me after a while.

 

Death....., posted on March 28, 2011 at 08:53:35
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Hi,

I have noticed "active-with-soldering" audio people die in their 60s. My mentor Bob Fulton did, Alan Wright, etc.

Classical music people, conductors, etc., are often productive into their late 90's !! Rock stars typically die young. Bad vibes and drugs.

Jeff Medwin

 

RE: Just A reminder about lead solder. Dont use it!, posted on March 28, 2011 at 09:38:49
Steve O
Audiophile

Posts: 12383
Location: SE MI
Joined: September 6, 2001
 You can't compare water to lead in terms of vapors. The vapor pressure of water at room temp is relatively high, thus evaporation can occur at room temp. The vapor pressure of lead is extremely low at room temp so there is no appreciable "evaporation" even over long periods of time.

My own personal experience with solder is that it's possible to create minute lead particles during the soldering process as the flux boils and spits and atomizes the liquid solder. The particles are created as the lead cools. The easy solution is ventilation either to the outside or with a local filter system.

I once had a concern about lead ingestion as a result of the hobby and so paid for a test for blood borne lead. It came back negative so I don't really worry about the issue and will continue to use lead bearing solder as long as it's available. I do keep my face out of any plumes arising from my work and always wash my hands thoroughly after any soldering work.

I suspect that our greatest risk of lead exposure still comes from the lead emitted into the general environment from leaded gas even though it was phased out decades ago (except for general aviation - lead still in that gas I hear).

 

RE: Just A reminder about lead solder. Dont use it!, posted on March 28, 2011 at 10:43:43
4season
 Awhile back, I purchased a Weller smoke filter for about $55 (see link). Though I have never suspected that I have a problem with lead poisoning, why gamble? Figured that $55 was cheaper than any visit to the doctor. There were cheaper models to be had, but this one seemed to have best availability of replacement filters.

I wanted to see firsthand how ROHS solder worked for me, and sure enough, it handles a bit differently from the 60/40 stuff I was used to, but it seems to be performing well enough, and as long as that continues to be the case, I'll see no reason to go back to using leaded solder.

Oh, and don't forget about the insulation on wire which gets heated and sometimes scorched while soldering! Don't know what kind of fumes litz wire gives off when we burn the enamel off, but best to play it safe. Fumes from PVC aren't going to be healthy, and if you use thermal wire strippers on PTFE-coated wire, that may potentially release some very nasty things as well.

 

Brilliant!, posted on March 28, 2011 at 11:11:41
op48no1
 You should publish...

-Henry

 

RE: Death....., posted on March 28, 2011 at 13:44:19
mikeyb
Audiophile

Posts: 1807
Location: Minnesota
Joined: November 8, 2002
 Gee, thanks for the encouraging news. Right up there with Fox and CNN. I'm 63 - so I've only got a few years left. Oh well, if the lead doesn't get me, the radiation from Japan will. Or global climate change. Or the terrorists. Or ...

 

RE: Just A reminder about lead solder. Dont use it!, posted on March 28, 2011 at 14:53:54
Swanson
Audiophile

Posts: 140
Location: New Jersey
Joined: June 16, 2003
 Thought I would add my 2 cents here.My mom
bought me my first soldering iron when I was 10.
I am 43 now and have been soldering all through
grade school,middle school and high school.Went
to tech.college for electronics and while going
there worked as a plumbers apprentice.Was soldering
copper pipes when it was still legal to use 60/40.
Graduated tech.school and began my professional career
in electronics using the soldering iron just about every day.
About ten years ago I became worried that perhaps all
that soldering gave me lead poisoning.So I asked my
doctor to check for lead in my blood test.The results
came back negative.So I guess what I am trying to say here
is if you are that concerned about lead poisoning have
your doctor test for it.They can even look at x-rays of
your arm and leg bones to see if they are holding lead.

Regards,
Swanson

 

RE: Death....., posted on March 28, 2011 at 15:53:05
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1839
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
 Do you have an idea of how long you'll have to listen to the theorists?

 

RE: Death....., posted on March 28, 2011 at 16:25:49
griboon
Audiophile

Posts: 449
Location: Lynchburg Va.
Joined: October 14, 2003
 We live in a modern age. We have access to an endless supply of knowledge to sift through. There are so many supplements it staggers the imagination.Take advantage of it.

 

Lead exposure link to melanoma, posted on March 28, 2011 at 16:31:11
op48no1
 If I'm not mistaken, Allen died of melanoma. Not a lot of research on the Web on the link between lead and melanoma. Here's one abstract I found. Did Allen get a lot of exposure to sunshine?

I'm wondering if you were serious. Perhaps the stress of listening for differences that may or may not exist weakens the immune system.

Research Article

Journal of Exposure Analysis and Environmental Epidemiology (2005) 15, 458–462. doi:10.1038/sj.jea.7500423; published online 23 March 2005
Environmental exposure to trace elements and risk of cutaneous melanoma

Marco Vincetia, Stefania Bassissib, Carlotta Malagolib, Giovanni Pellacanib, Dorothea Alberc, Margherita Bergomia and Stefania Seidenarib

1. aDepartment of Hygiene, Microbiology and Biostatistics, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, Via Campi 287, 41100 Modena, Italy
2. bDepartment of Dermatology, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, Via Del Pozzo 71, 41100 Modena, Italy
3. cDepartment of Trace Elements, Hahn-Meitner Institut, Berlin, Germany

Correspondence: Marco Vinceti, Dipartimento di Scienze Igienistiche, Microbiologiche e Biostatistiche, Università di Modena e Reggio Emilia, Via Campi 287, 41100 Modena, Italy. Tel.: +39-059-2055-481; Fax: +39-059-2055-483; E-mail: marco.vinceti@unimore.it

Received 11 October 2004; Accepted 20 January 2005; Published online 23 March 2005.

Abstract

Purpose:

Our aim was to examine the risk of melanoma in association with exposure to trace elements of toxicological and nutritional interest.

Methods:


We analyzed the concentrations of cadmium, lead, chromium, selenium, copper and zinc in toenails of 58 patients with newly diagnosed cutaneous melanoma as well as in 58 age- and sex-matched control subjects, randomly selected from the population of Modena province in northern Italy.

Results:


Melanoma risk was substantially unrelated to toenail levels of cadmium, chromium, lead and selenium. Subjects with higher toenail copper levels showed an excess risk, both in the crude analysis and after adjusting for sun exposure and level of education, while in both analyses high iron concentrations were associated with a decreased risk of the disease. A weak direct association between zinc levels and melanoma risk also emerged in the multivariate analysis.

Conclusions:

Overall, these results do not suggest an involvement of heavy metals in melanoma etiology, while they do give some support to a possible role of zinc and, in particular, copper and iron exposure in influencing disease risk. However, these findings must be evaluated with caution due to the limited statistical stability of the point estimates.

 

Jeff, are you suggesting that we drug and drink to excess?, posted on March 28, 2011 at 16:56:53
richardl
Audiophile

Posts: 3555
Joined: September 5, 2002
 Or should I invite you over to my next party because you are advertising your abilities? ;-)

Happy Trails

 

RE: Just A reminder about lead solder. Don't use it!, posted on March 28, 2011 at 18:44:05
tubebuilder
 Yea I hope I am negative. I have a 6 inch centrifugal fan now going in to a silica based handmade filter. Maybe I am over reacting after news of my cousin. I would love to be able to use like 40% silver solder. That would make a loverly joint. Or maybe even tig weld copper to copper lol. Never know someone might come up with a better way of joining wires. I think a lot of losses of Fidelity is in solder joints. Maybe that why simple tube amps sound so good and chip amps are catching up fast.I have never read a favorite solder thread. I might search for one and if there none start one to see what peoples are using.

 

Yes, thanks to the Internet, we have access to a . . ., posted on March 28, 2011 at 20:23:42
Ray Moth
Audiophile

Posts: 2784
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Joined: November 10, 2003
 Fund of
Unlimited
Computer
Knowledge
With
Interactive
Terminals

 

With regards to my post above, posted on March 29, 2011 at 06:38:57
kyle
Audiophile

Posts: 1839
Location: London Ontario
Joined: September 29, 1999
 It was irony my friend. I enjoy Jeff's posts and respect the fact that he has made more amps than most of us. He gets picked on frequently for a variety of reasons and yet keeps coming back with updates on his experience. I often disagree with his perspective and results that differ from my own but he's more entertaining than those whose only experience is with a sim.

From Dictionary.com:
"Irony, sarcasm, satire indicate mockery of something or someone. The essential feature of irony is the indirect presentation of a contradiction between an action or expression and the context in which it occurs. In the figure of speech, emphasis is placed on the opposition between the literal and intended meaning of a statement; one thing is said and its opposite implied, as in the comment, “Beautiful weather, isn't it?” made when it is raining or nasty. Ironic literature exploits, in addition to the rhetorical figure, such devices as character development, situation, and plot to stress the paradoxical nature of reality or the contrast between an ideal and actual condition, set of circumstances...."

 

RE: With regards to my post above, posted on March 29, 2011 at 10:00:22
op48no1
 > I often disagree with his perspective and results that differ from my
> own but he's more entertaining than those whose only experience is with
> a sim.

I don't think there are many people posting here, if at all, whose only experience is with a simulator.

-Henry

 

Answer...to "theorists"., posted on March 29, 2011 at 13:07:22
drlowmu
Manufacturer

Posts: 9730
Location: East of Kansas City
Joined: January 10, 2005
 Kyle,

LMAO. If I continue to post up here, ....till I die!

Ray Moth is a really good guy, and he posted below. Hes lives in Indonesia, and from his answers on this Forum, has never ever heard a modern SE amp, let alone built one.

Cheers,

Jeff Medwin

 

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