Tube DIY Asylum

Do It Yourself (DIY) paradise for tube and SET project builders.

Return to Tube DIY Asylum

Wide Open...for Guitarists and Amp Builders

71.146.10.245
Posted on November 4, 2009 at 20:03:31
chrismercurio
Audiophile

Posts: 52
Joined: August 4, 2008
 All,

I'm not really sure where to post this so piss and moan if it is the wrong place. I run a Transcendent SE-OTL into a pair of GPA 604's and it sounds best when it's run wide open, or right on the edge of audible clipping. This got me thinking about how tube amps for electric guitar (good ones anyway) also sound best when they are run wide open (on ten or eleven depending on whose amp you use).

I'm sure there are great technical reasons for this, like the pot is mostly out of the way in the guitar amp, but don't know why it is the case for the SE-OTL and other small tube amps. Can anyone explain? Mind you it still sounds good at low levels, but something happens when it's wound out regardless of the preamp that I use.

I don't really want this to escalate into how hot people run the tubes ala the conservative voltage ratings from right at the edge of what the tubes will take.

Thank you in advance,

Chris

RE: Wide Open...for Guitarists and Amp Builders, posted on November 5, 2009 at 11:47:46
Neff
 Guitar amp distortion is a whole industry by itself.

"piss and moan" Nice. Yes, distortion is beautiful., posted on November 5, 2009 at 04:59:01
Chris O
Audiophile

Posts: 3060
Location: Memphis, TN
Joined: March 22, 2002
 Guitar amps are distortion machines even when playing "clean".
A little bit of even harmonic distortion can sound good for HiFi as well. Tubes can also be more linear when run a bit harder depending on their curves.

___
Long Live Dr.Gizmo
It's the sound that matters..., posted on November 5, 2009 at 14:45:28
Interstage Tranny
Audiophile

Posts: 1403
Location: Eastern
Joined: October 4, 2006
 Second order can sound juicier. Running tubes hard does not always make that happen. I can sometimes get more warmth from mellower settings on some tubes. But, I must admit, I too, seemed to like triodes run hard...

RE: "piss and moan" Nice. Yes, distortion is beautiful., posted on November 5, 2009 at 07:35:20
FenderLover
Audiophile

Posts: 3308
Joined: July 31, 2007
Contributor
  Since: May 17, 2009
 Compression as well as distortion and rectifier sag is prolly the greatest at full volume. Not all amps are play at "10" all the time. Also depends on what style of music you are playing, as well as the guitar and pickups being used.

I've always thought the amp was the second part of the voicing of electric guitars. There's a wide degree of variation in final tone and response. I like my array of Fender amps for all their specific tones and resonses to input. The types of tubes and topologies used by the amp manufacturers make for a great selection. Maybe more so than hi-fi consumers.

HiFi Stereos have 3D with depth; Guitarists seem to like amps that sound forward..., posted on November 5, 2009 at 14:41:05
Interstage Tranny
Audiophile

Posts: 1403
Location: Eastern
Joined: October 4, 2006
 Distortion aside, guitarists seem to strive for amps that sound like the tunes are coming out and away from the box. That tends to be a very forward sound, despite peers thinking that raised mids and highs yield a forward signature.

I grew up in the theatre, as a sound engineer. When mixing in the studio, the speakers set up the proscenium arch, that is, the front of the stage. So, we always strived for the sound to come from behind the speakers, moreso than from the front. So, if there was/is forward sound of the speakers, I set up my gear for as much, or more, sound from behind the speakers. That sense of depth is critical for my listening. It was not so easy in crowded studio control rooms, with the speakers attached to the walls, above the mixing board. Fortunately, the studios I worked had better monitors set up in the studios, for real pleasant monitoring playback.

Tubewise, it amazes me how many folks prefer those "forward" sounding tubes, both in the hifi world and the guitar amp stompdom. Like, I cannot enjoy too many shiny black plate 5751 and 12AX7 tubes, which sound too forward, compared to their later gray plate brethren. Coated, dull black plates can be okay. But, you guitar guys love those shiny black plates...

RE: HiFi Stereos have 3D with depth; Guitarists seem to like amps that sound forward..., posted on November 5, 2009 at 16:17:55
FenderLover
Audiophile

Posts: 3308
Joined: July 31, 2007
Contributor
  Since: May 17, 2009
 Projection is the big thing. My experience is the Ampeg SVT project just about as good as any amp. It ran various front end tubes. I never saw one with a 12AX7 type. The one I most familiar with ran 12DW7's. Which I guess has properties very close to the 12AX7. As you said, a lot of the projection is in the placement and types of speakers used.

Really, though the endpoint maybe different between guitar and hi-fi world, one thing is in common. Tube equipment just simply outshine most solid-state units. I get the same "Wow" response when someone used to solid state guitar amps hears a good tube unit for the first time. Kinda neat.

Oh yeah, on the whole, I do like black plate better than grays.


:^)

RE: HiFi Stereos have 3D with depth; Guitarists seem to like amps that sound forward..., posted on November 6, 2009 at 11:10:00
JANDG
Audiophile

Posts: 1564
Location: Washington State
Joined: February 27, 2004
 My Mullard front end loaded Soldano for "that" mood or mode has huge projection & is smooth & smooth with all the internal sonic complexity that leave a repro hi-fi amp in the dust, reality vs repro is just that. Sounds as if you have the gear to emulate some nice SRV tones...*s*
Modeling amps have made me puke on the spot.
Joe
Wisdom for today.........
A GREAT tube amp or speakers will allways be GREAT & bieng relevant today is irrelevant.

Page processed in 0.026 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2009, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ] [ Go Green ] [ Take5 ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]