If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on November 12, 2009 at 13:00:38
shermanr@prw.net Audiophile Posts: 497 Location: Sunny San Juan, PR Joined: June 8, 2004 Contributor Since: June 24, 2009	If we cannot hear any differences between cables, then there's about 8 dozen Hi-Fi cable companies wasting their time :-)... From A to Z (Audioquest to Zu)

Sometimes..., posted on September 5, 2009 at 11:44:12

Bill Way
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Going from 14-2 solid copper household wire to old Monster Powerline 2 wires on a 15-foot speaker run gave a slightly reduced sense of grunge. Nothing dramatic, but most everyone heard it, or thought they did.

I have not heard anything dramatic on 1 meter IC runs, except for the real cheapie (mass market) stuff, and suspect the connectors are the big difference there. Would be interesting to put decent connectors on those cheapie wires and see...

I've also heard dramatic improvements from cleaning RCA and speaker connectors - **really** dramatic. A system I put together for a friend gradually got dull and lifeless, and cleaning the connectors brought it all back in a BIG way.

I have a 9-foot set of ICs from my preamp to monoblocks, and found the Venhaus DIY silver ICs blew away Cardas quadlink - that *was* dramatic, and everyone hears it.

So it depends. Connectors, I think, are always important, and there is a big improvement to be had by every physical connector you can get rid of by hard-wiring. Wire itself *can* be important, particularly on long runs, and particularly if you watch capacitance and shielding, each of which can be important in certain installations and environments.

WW

There is NO substitute for the live performance.

If you can not hear a difference, posted on May 10, 2009 at 06:06:33
PhilJ Audiophile Posts: 599 Joined: January 20, 2002	you should not bother with any of it thanks Phil

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 23, 2009 at 19:22:47
DrWho Manufacturer Posts: 32 Location: Chicago Joined: January 31, 2009	I might say the phrase slightly differently.... "If you can really hear a difference between cable, then there is something wrong with the system"

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 17, 2009 at 13:46:14
Sostenuto Audiophile Posts: 224 Location: Great Lakes Joined: April 17, 2009	First you have to determine why you're hearing differences. It could be real, or you might be imagining it.

scoff if you like..., posted on April 15, 2009 at 16:34:00

hifitommy
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Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny
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but diffs in wire is real. yes, the better the rest of the system, the more likely you are to hear the diffs. i heard them i a relatively affordable setup-nad 3020/spectro acoustics 100wpc amp/rabco st4/ADC XLM/rogers LS3/5As/infinity monitor jrs (as woofs)/dahlquist LP1 xover.

the diff came with an audio techinica litz wire vs radio shack black and red. it made no difference to me which sounded better. the litz ended up in the path to the 3020 amp and the rogers as the mids and highs sounded better with it. the rats to the woof end of the system as the lows passed VERY nicely through them. both performed their jobs quite well.

i cant see me spending big bucks on wire unless the money comes through for the MBL101s or equivalent with accompanying high end electronics. THEN you can hear the diffs. and YES, its worth it if you can afford it.

a further comment on the above system: it was amazing for its low cost.

...regards...tr

Is this an example of a never ending thread? NT, posted on April 15, 2009 at 11:16:30
navman Audiophile Posts: 730 Location: U.S.A. Joined: January 26, 2009	navman

Not any more, it isn't., posted on April 15, 2009 at 14:22:37
JimK Audiophile Posts: 3608 Location: Maple Grove, MN. Joined: April 18, 2008 Contributor Since: October 2, 2008	Now that it is located in a "more appropriate venue" I can't help but notice how much of it was deleted.... Jim

LOL., posted on April 15, 2009 at 17:18:22
navman Audiophile Posts: 730 Location: U.S.A. Joined: January 26, 2009	Right forum, trimmed at the edges, who can complain? :) navman

Indeed! Deja Vu all over again ad nauseum, etc...N/T, posted on April 15, 2009 at 11:26:31
musetap Audiophile Posts: 6371 Location: San Francisco Joined: July 8, 2003 Contributor Since: January 28, 2004	N/T "...You're all welcome to stay for the next set...we're going to play all the same tunes, but in different keys..." -Count Basie

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 15, 2009 at 11:02:38
kennethcascio@aol.com Audiophile Posts: 26 Location: north jersey Joined: December 9, 2008	I "downgraded" from Audience AU-24 speaker cable(Thin single crystal) to LAT International SS-1000mk's(10 gauge 6 nines copper infused with silver). A big difference in volume/dynamics for 1/4th the cost of the AU-24's. I agree the Hi-FI cable industry is full of BS.

Move this thread?, posted on April 15, 2009 at 10:15:45
Jim Smith Industry Professional Posts: 609 Location: Atlanta, GA area Joined: April 5, 2000	Anyone think General is a great location for this thread? After RBNG's troll, it seems to have devolved to a thread better suited to - at a minimum - Cable, Iso, or Whiner's. Best regards, Jim Smith

Yea it belongs in prop head. nt, posted on April 15, 2009 at 13:10:54
Don Till Audiophile Posts: 675 Location: Tempe Joined: February 16, 2009

Usually silly trolls like this end up in PropHead these days...(nt), posted on April 15, 2009 at 10:47:19
mkuller Audiophile Posts: 15929 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: April 22, 2003 Contributor Since: December 28, 2003	(nt)

It's against Cable Asylum rules, so that's out of question., posted on April 15, 2009 at 10:31:34
carcass93 Audiophile Posts: 2634 Location: NJ Joined: September 20, 2006	What's wrong with it being here?

RE: What's wrong with it being here?, posted on April 15, 2009 at 10:47:09
Jim Smith Industry Professional Posts: 609 Location: Atlanta, GA area Joined: April 5, 2000	Maybe it's just me. I knew about the Cable Asylum rules. I did a poor job of trying to make a point. Seems to me that if it goes against the Cable Asylum's rules, there's a pretty good reason. These kind of threads go on ad nauseam, they take up space, and no one convinces the other - ever. Best regards, Jim Smith

Amen. (nt), posted on April 15, 2009 at 10:20:34
JimK Audiophile Posts: 3608 Location: Maple Grove, MN. Joined: April 18, 2008 Contributor Since: October 2, 2008	nada thing Jim

If you CAN'Treally hear a difference between cable/wire..., posted on April 15, 2009 at 10:09:22
mkuller Audiophile Posts: 15929 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: April 22, 2003 Contributor Since: December 28, 2003	...either your system doesn't have the resolving ability or you lack the critical listening skills. The differences are subtle, but they are there.

RE: If you CAN'Treally hear a difference between cable/wire..., posted on April 15, 2009 at 14:20:24

Don Till
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"...either your system doesn't have the resolving ability or you lack the critical listening skills."

I agree about the listening skills but disagree about the resolving power. At least if we are talking about stuff a level or two better than Fischer-Price quality.

Why wouldn't audiophiles believe that the best components are going to be those least effected by the wires connecting them?

This "resolving ability" is getting way blown out of proportion. My experiences are that the some of the worst components I have ever owned are those that have been most susceptable to interconnect differences.

Yea I hear differences too but just because something is more effected by interconnects hardly means its resolving power is better. That's ludicrious.

Here's why..., posted on April 15, 2009 at 20:56:31

mkuller
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>Why wouldn't audiophiles believe that the best components are going to be those least effected by the wires connecting them?>

Because cables all sound subtly different. The more resolution your system has, the easier and quicker it is to hear those differences.

>My experiences are that the some of the worst components I have ever owned are those that have been most susceptable to interconnect differences.>

And on your 'better' components, you don't hear cable differences?

Just exactly what is it you think makes a component more 'susceptible' to cable differences?

RE: Here's why..., posted on April 16, 2009 at 10:22:31

Don Till
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"Just exactly what is it you think makes a component more 'susceptible' to cable differences?"

It's i/o characteristics and how they match up with other components to which they are connected. Beyond the actual differences heard due to the interconnect electrical characteristics on the i/o interface of the connected components, material interfaces play a part in our perception of differences as well. Some of these interfaces, say a less than ideal transition between cable and connector, are static and repeatable. However material interfaces are somewhat dynamic and change over time.

These things don't have a sound - they may change the way the components interact, depending on the components, and thus change the sound.

"And on your 'better' components, you don't hear cable differences?"

I've always noticed a difference with speaker cables. With interconnects I usually notice a difference but there have been times where I noticed no difference or the difference was so subtle I didn't bother to try to notice it.

"Because cables all sound subtly different. The more resolution your system has, the easier and quicker it is to hear those differences."

Cables don't have a sound - but they may influence the components to which they are connected. And further just because you can hear differences or the differences are more obvious that is not enough to know your system has more resolving power.

Maybe in some absolute ideal test environment your POV, the more resolving power (whatever that might mean BTW) means we can better differentiate interconnects, might have more credibility. But we aren't talking about lab or test results. We're talking about the real world of stereo equipment - what's real and absolute for the most part has little to do with the conclusions we reach.

If you don't get the distinction I'm drawing you don't get it.

I suspect we won't agree..., posted on April 16, 2009 at 10:40:38

mkuller
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>I've always noticed a difference with speaker cables.>

So far, so good.

>These things don't have a sound...With interconnects I usually notice a difference but there have been times where I noticed no difference or the difference was so subtle I didn't bother to try to notice it...Cables don't have a sound...>

So you want to have it both ways?

If I recall, you are an EE. Is that what they taught you in school - only speaker cables have their own sound.

Of course all cables have a sound.

They are all made of different materials, in different configurations with different connectors and differing amounts measured of R, C and I. It would be amazing if they didn't sound different.

For example, compare a pair of top of the line Nordost cables with Cardas'.

While the impedence interactions of the components can effect their sound, cable sonic signatures are repeatable with different equipment.

We should really attempt to agree - this isn't "difficult" stuff, posted on April 16, 2009 at 13:41:28

Don Till
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"So far, so good."

Not really. I've spent less time with speaker cables and I've compared single, bi as well as tri wire configurations as well as different lengths. With this kind of apples to oranges kind of comparison there is far more likelyhood of hearing differences.

And no I don't feel this lack of "fairness" in these comparisons in anyway takes away from the final decision I made in purchasing one cable over another.

The physical differences between auditioned interconnects are much less however there are differences none the less. Connector type, material as well as construction quality quickly come to mind.

"Of course all cables have a sound."

No. Cables do not have a sound - they can only effect the performance of the system to which they are connected.

This is equally true of speaker cables as well as interconnects - regardless of whether or not we hear a difference or not. We are not hearing cables/interconnects, we are hearing their effects on the connected components.

"They are all made of different materials, in different configurations with different connectors and differing amounts measured of R, C and I. It would be amazing if they didn't sound different."

You're preaching to the choir - I don't disagree. However some cable configurations are so similar that there are no differences.

"While the impedence interactions of the components can effect their sound, cable sonic signatures are repeatable with different equipment."

Only to the degree which the design of the connected components allow themselves to be effected by the interconnects or cables. If KCAG allows deeper bass than PBJ I would conclude the the differences between the RCL of the interconnect is what is responsible for the difference. However how noticible that difference is going to be on the output depends on the i/o characteristics of the connected components.(see note below)

The fact that the difference is more or less obvious is not a function of the resolving power of the connected components. It's a function of the component design, ie. the i/o characteristics in particular.

note - Of course the systems ability to reproduce deep bass has something to do with how noticable that difference will be as well. But a system short on bass might better reveal this difference as well or better than one with an adequete bass response in the first place. Ie. in the system cable of reproducing the full dose of bass it would be less noticible if some was missing than a system that was struggling to reproduce it in the first place.

yer wrong., posted on April 15, 2009 at 16:33:01
hifitommy Audiophile Posts: 9503 Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny Joined: June 9, 2000	it has EVERYTHING to do with resolving power, but maybe no so much about price. a nad 3020 is high end, and highly resolving. ...regards...tr

If you put ihat way I agree with you, posted on April 16, 2009 at 09:24:49

Don Till
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Certainly a component as elavated as the NAD 352, can descriminate the differences between interconnects.

I've stated, somewhere else in this thread, we are talking about gear a level or two above Fischer-Price.

It's kind of frustrating trying to discuss these kinds of topics when people are going to bring up stuff that's not even midfi in quality to make their points.

Your point appears to be because the Fischer-Price all in one stereo can't discriminate between speaker cables and interconnects one can conclude that the more a system can discriminate the more resolving it must be.

So you've made your point and I agree - though it's really got nothing to do with hifi hifitommy.

and sometimes not so subtle nt, posted on April 15, 2009 at 10:42:32
Frank E Audiophile Posts: 643 Joined: May 20, 2000 Contributor Since: September 8, 2000

If you can hear...then you have a system that is resolving enough to hear such differences (nt), posted on April 15, 2009 at 09:55:46
jfz Audiophile Posts: 305 Joined: July 21, 2004	.

No! You have a system susceptable to cable differences, posted on April 15, 2009 at 13:17:30
Don Till Audiophile Posts: 675 Location: Tempe Joined: February 16, 2009	There's nothing to resolve when it comes to interconnects. Their character influences the performance of the gear it connects or it doesn't. Nothing wrong if someone thinks one cable/interconnect is preferential to another. But to conclude that the more resolving systems are more effected by cable/interconnect characteristics is just wrong pure and simple.

RE: No! You have a system susceptable to cable differences, posted on November 5, 2009 at 04:07:29
Curly Woods Audiophile Posts: 118 Location: Texas Joined: January 31, 2006	So a higher resolution amp/preamp makes it less likely to hear differences in cables? Are you really serious! I have sold high end audio for over 20+ years and your comment is really at odds with everything that i have learned during that time. The better the electronics, the more obvious the differences in the cabling was always a no brainer in my experience.

..... then I'd recommend dry dog food over Alpo. nt, posted on April 15, 2009 at 09:12:47
tinear Audiophile Posts: 26482 Location: Willamette Valley OR Joined: April 9, 2006	d

In systems and sources and with cables and wires both cheap and expensive, changes made noticeable improvements, posted on April 15, 2009 at 08:30:19

Bambi B
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PHOTO: Volvo 122S re-integrated 100% feedback OTL amplifier with ash tray, pencil sharpener, key start, and Audioquest NRG-2 power cord

Frank Sol,

I have heard substantial improvements in cable/wire changes often and on all levels of equipment.

Interconnects: When I added the Revox B160 tuner to a $150 Sony receiver in my office, I initially used the interconnects that came with some other piece of gear- the $3 kind. The tuner- $1000 in 1988- made a vast improvement in sound by itself over the $5 FM car radio chip the receiver probably used. Then, I changed the $3 ICs for Audioquest King Cobras ($100 used 20 hrs) and the improvement was almost as noticeable as the change to the Revox. As well, I could easily hear the King Cobras burning in and improving up to about 50 hrs.

Speaker cables: When I set up the system in my last office, I realized that I didn't have any speaker cables long enough and just to have the sound going until I sorted it, I used lamp cord. That system: Cambridge Audio 640C/Revox B160 > Audio Research LS3 > ARC D130 > Infinity Primus 360. The sound was acceptable and with laziness, the lamp cord stayed for a month. I didn't want to re-terminate my beloved Kimber 4TC or 8TC I used with the main system Vandersteens and so I used the infamous "Home Depot HD-14" cable made from the orange and black 14 gauge extension cord- and the sound made a big improvement. As the Home Depot cord was only $25 for 100' and the Radio Shack gold-coloured spades were about $4 a set, the office speaker cable cost about $15. I made two pairs of cables for friends with the leftover cord as gifts and still have a pile of it. Then, for $80 on Ebay I changed to Audioquest Type 4 and again- a substantial improvement in every way.

Power cord: Eventually I wanted to see if power cords had an effect and I bought an Audioquest NRG-2 (2M) for $50 on Ebay. The change of cord rescued the 640C from being sold ( I thought to buy a Rega Jupiter) as I had found it a bit lean and dry until he power cord seems to open it up, it was quieter, more dynamic, and turn the leanness to transparency and the dryness to detail and resolution.

Power Conditioners: This is not within the limits of this discussion, but the four Powervar and Oneac isolation transformer hospital power conditioners- bought for between $30 and $75 from eBay also made improvements and cured a ground loop hum in one system.

From this: With systems and sources both cheap and expensive, changes of cables and wires- both cheap and expensive- made noticeable improvements. This means that your rhetorical question, "If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire,..Then you have paid too much $$$$ for your setup"- has very definitely not been my experience.

Nor can I support in any way the premise that specialised audiophile wires, cables, and power conditioners are useless or "scams" for the "gullible". I would change your rhetorical statement to "If you can not really really hear a difference between cable/wire,..Then you have not paid attention to your setup."

Cheers,

Bambi B

If You Can't Hear a Difference Between Cables..., posted on April 15, 2009 at 07:36:42
Doug Schroeder Reviewer Posts: 459 Location: Midwest Joined: September 21, 2005	then you have a pile of junk for gear. Is that a joke, or truthful to a degree? Same kind of logic.

No joke. BTW, thank you for Van Alstine DAC review., posted on April 15, 2009 at 07:53:30
carcass93 Audiophile Posts: 2634 Location: NJ Joined: September 20, 2006	Stuff like that has to be exposed for what it is.

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 15, 2009 at 07:04:59
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 11765 Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	You are more likely to hear the differences between cables in a highly resolving system. However, I do not believe that more expensive cables will necessarily sound better than cheap cables. Megabuck interconnects, speaker wires, and power cords are one of the biggest scams in high-end audio.

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 15, 2009 at 14:13:59

Don Till
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"You are more likely to hear the differences between cables in a highly resolving system."

I don't really understand this at all. I say your are far more likely to hear cable differences when i/o characteristics of the connected components are a poor match or when one or both connected components are poorly designed.

I can't on any level understand why a better quality component would more likely reveal differences between interconnects than a lesser quality system.

Curious question, posted on April 15, 2009 at 19:23:39
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 9838 Location: Central boonies Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	I can't on any level understand why a better quality component would more likely reveal differences between interconnects than a lesser quality system. That's like saying " I can't on any level understand why a better quality camera would more likely reveal differences between lenses than a lesser quality camera". rw

You've got real problem with your analogy, posted on April 16, 2009 at 10:37:30
Don Till Audiophile Posts: 675 Location: Tempe Joined: February 16, 2009	Really the lens would have to be the recording or the source. Interconnect cables would be the space within the light travels.

Suit yourself, posted on April 16, 2009 at 11:47:27
E-Stat Audiophile Posts: 9838 Location: Central boonies Joined: May 12, 2000 Contributor Since: April 5, 2002	All light must pass through the lens and the quality of result can only be degraded. Such is also the case with cables. Those which pass the greatest information contain the lowest dielectric constant. rw

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 15, 2009 at 08:25:24
SgreenP@MSN.com Audiophile Posts: 576 Joined: April 23, 2007	I agree that more expensive cables might sound worse...but they might sound better as well. All cables sound different...and the difference depends also, on the component it is used with. One must audition each cable in their system, however, there is definite value in selecting the correct for your system cable. To say that Cardas and Nordost sound the same is wrong

Exactly ..., posted on April 15, 2009 at 08:32:08

reelsmith.
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I recently tried the new Kimber 8TC with my system ...it didn't work well (thin, strident, no weight). Then I tried the AudioQuest Type 4 ....improved, but not there yet. Then I went to a simple 12-gauge Ultralink and all was right.

I'm not saying any of these cables are good, bad or that one sounds better than another. But, they sure all sounded different in my system with one providing the best synergy.

reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Exactly exactly exactly !!, posted on April 15, 2009 at 09:28:43

AbeCollins
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"I recently tried the new Kimber 8TC with my system ...it didn't work well (thin, strident, no weight). Then I tried the AudioQuest Type 4 ....improved, but not there yet. Then I went to a simple 12-gauge Ultralink and all was right."

I've been posting here about Kimber 8TC cable for a few years now. Not to bash Kimber as I do enjoy their KCAG interconnects, but I too find the 8TC speaker cables to be lacking in bass and overall somewhat "thin" sounding. I've tried this speaker cable on various gear including different SS and tube amps and different speakers. Same overall result.

I later tried relatively inexpensive Audioquest Slate speaker cables (often on sale bulk and terminated to order by Audio Advisor). This was a huge improvement over the Kimber 8TC and the Slate are much cheaper.

So I agree, there ARE differences in cables BUT more expensive cables are not necessarily any better than the cheaper cables.

I'm presently using DH Labs Air Matrix and Kimber KCAG interconnects and my speaker cables have been Analysis Plus Oval 9's for the past several years.

But at what point does it become "mega" and, accordingly, scam?, posted on April 15, 2009 at 07:28:45
carcass93 Audiophile Posts: 2634 Location: NJ Joined: September 20, 2006	I paid $1200 for used NBS Monitor I biwire speaker cables, which is a lot of money for me, and definitely borders on "crazy". However, improvement they brought to sound was not by any means subtle, and is totally comparable to component upgrade.

Great question!!, posted on April 15, 2009 at 09:42:14

AbeCollins
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The very high end niche cable manufacturers thrive on the fact that your question cannot be answered. ;-)

At what point do you feel pain and feel that you've paid too much and perhaps have been scammed ?

Have you tried your $1200 NBS Monitor biwire speaker cables against several much cheaper alternatives? When you have, and when you find that alternative cable at 1/10th the price, you'll understand. But does that mean you were scammed? Please let us know.

Of course., posted on April 15, 2009 at 09:52:29

carcass93
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PS Audio Plus
PS Audio Transcendence (?)
Z-Cable biwire (don't remember model)
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun
VD Nite II biwire
NBS Monitor I biwire

This is what I went through, each subsequent iteration being improvement on the previous.

Regarding "1/10 the price" - it hasn't been my experience, and neither it's yours. Get back to us when you actually do a comparison, instead of just blathering away.

Why so defensive?, posted on April 15, 2009 at 10:57:52

AbeCollins
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I'm not questioning your personal experience or your hearing. How could I?

But in general, higher priced cables do not equate to better sound. That's a pretty general statement not picking on anyone's particular choices.

And YES, I have tried and compared many cables over the years so why is that so far fetched to you? And YES, I have found some cables at 1/10 the price of others that do indeed sound better.

RE: But at what point does it become "mega" and, accordingly, scam?, posted on April 15, 2009 at 07:35:25
tesla Audiophile Posts: 1727 Location: San Diego County, California Joined: October 25, 2000	$1200 ia an impressive amount. So, the question is, would that $1200 have been better spent towards a better system? I don't really have a signature line

I thought there was understanding that cables are integral part of the system., posted on April 15, 2009 at 07:47:03
carcass93 Audiophile Posts: 2634 Location: NJ Joined: September 20, 2006	Was I wrong?

Just curious... What is your system ? -nt, posted on April 15, 2009 at 11:43:57
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 11765 Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	.

RE: I thought there was understanding that cables are integral part of the system., posted on April 15, 2009 at 08:15:37
middleground Audiophile Posts: 12120 Location: Montreal Joined: December 23, 2001	Yup. Move along...

Question about your beliefs and biases - and your moniker., posted on April 15, 2009 at 08:24:21
carcass93 Audiophile Posts: 2634 Location: NJ Joined: September 20, 2006	In your opinion, does your moniker have anything to do with your point of view on audio?

Seems to me the money was spent towards a better system ..., posted on April 15, 2009 at 07:40:03
reelsmith. Audiophile Posts: 2922 Location: CT Joined: June 7, 2005	...unless cables are somehow not part of the system and therefore the improvement they brought negated. reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 15, 2009 at 07:12:50
Frank I Audiophile Posts: 743 Joined: December 9, 2001	The last time I changed cables I heard a huge difference. My MIT 70 terminators and 339 tube terminators made a huge difference in sound and when I swapped the interconnects out on both the Onkyo and the Outlaw I noticed the difference immediately, The Kimbers were less resolving less musical. I bought those cables when aa had them at 50 percent off.

I would rephrase it like this:, posted on April 15, 2009 at 06:30:50
carcass93 Audiophile Posts: 2634 Location: NJ Joined: September 20, 2006	If you really can NOT hear a difference between cable/wire - you paid too little for your system. There are other variables at play, of course - hearing, biases etc.

Not really - some wires are indistinquishable, posted on April 15, 2009 at 14:25:06

Don Till
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Posts: 675
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Not all cables and interconnects are going to sound different. Last time I did a big test, like 12 interconnects, 4 of them sounded indistinquishable from each other as did another pair.

But in hindsight it really was all kind of BS because connecters, settling time, etc. were not taken into the equation.

All I've got to do is to disconnect and then reconnect my interconnets to get an improvement in sound.

Yea something is going on here but it's got little if anything to do with how much or how little you've paid for your system.

Just because I have good stuff doesn't mean I paid a lot.. n/t, posted on April 15, 2009 at 06:17:36
reuben Audiophile Posts: 809 Joined: September 28, 2004	.

RE: Just because I have good stuff doesn't mean I paid a lot.. n/t, posted on April 15, 2009 at 08:16:55
middleground Audiophile Posts: 12120 Location: Montreal Joined: December 23, 2001	Not if you stole it!

It's a (bad) joke. Much better audio jokes out there. :0) [nt], posted on April 15, 2009 at 06:10:12
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com Reviewer Posts: 10208 Location: Lancashire. Joined: January 21, 2001	nt Best Regards, Chris redmond.

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 15, 2009 at 04:48:51

kerr
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It's both a joke and truthful to a degree.

It's a joke because the "author" of that comment is espousing mediocrity. Perfectionist audio is for those who ultimately seek perfection. It's "going overboard" for those that are quite happy with mediocrity.

It's truthful because it is much harder to hear differences in very cheap systems. At least for me. At the low end of the audio spectrum, I probably won't not even bother with upgrading cables. Your mileage may vary.

Yes, there are great differences in the resolutions of members' systems., posted on April 15, 2009 at 06:23:51
Norm Audiophile Posts: 14914 Joined: September 6, 2000	Much of the dispute is merely talking past each other.

RE: If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire, posted on April 15, 2009 at 00:07:29
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 22046 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	"Then you have paid too much $$$$ for your setup." So I guess if one hears differences in cables on a $300 system, he paid too much money for the system. But if one does not hear differences in cables on a hundred grand system, his expenditures for the system were OK......

RE: You bet., posted on April 15, 2009 at 06:48:38
rick_m Audiophile Posts: 2529 Location: Oregon Joined: August 11, 2005	If I ponied up 100K for a system I'd better NOT hear differences between cables. Or even records. For that price it should plug directly into my pleasure centers and automatically set the stimulation level to optimum! Being limited by an old fashioned aural interface is for the lower classes. Rick

NO, posted on April 15, 2009 at 00:26:53
Frank Sol Audiophile Posts: 163 Location: SoCal Joined: October 6, 2008	I believe the point is one wont hear a difference in a 'cheap' (relatively) system. Frank .... Kind of Blue

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If you can really really hear a difference between cable/wire

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