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WOW! Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers.

74.101.123.137

Posted on June 15, 2012 at 12:45:18
DanWilson
Audiophile

Posts: 99
Location: Longisland NY
Joined: December 9, 2002



The model 3 speakers use a ScanSpeak 6600 tweeter.
ScanSpeak slit-cone Revelator mid-bass 7"
12" Scanspeak Servo-sub woofer
Jantzen Silver Z Caps.

 

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RE: WOW! Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers. , posted on June 15, 2012 at 13:09:08
Presto
Audiophile

Posts: 5432
Location: Canada
Joined: November 10, 2004
Sub looks like a Dayton aluminum cone Reference Series moreso like any Scanspeak sub I've seen (Discovery line or otherwise).

Hmmm. Maybe a new sub from Scan Speak? Sure looks a lot like the Dayton's I've worked with in the past...

6600 Air-circ with a 7" revelator... that's indeed a match made in heaven. Other designers have used this combination with good results. Crossover does take a little magic due to the response rise in the midbass. The 6600 goes really low with an Fs in and around 500Hz. World class components, for sure.

Cheers,
Presto

 

RE: WOW! Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers. , posted on June 15, 2012 at 20:16:10
DanWilson
Audiophile

Posts: 99
Location: Longisland NY
Joined: December 9, 2002
Presto you could be right. The 12 inch woofer isn't a Scanspeak.
BSI said it was their own design. So it could be the woofer you mentioned. BSI ditched the servo sub and designed a circuit for the amp that increases gain to make the sub play down below 20Hz... kinda like a servo. When the sub is down 3db... the amp has 3db boost.... when its down 6db... the amp boosts 6db... so it's flat all the way down- and it's a sealed design..
The mid and tweet is all Scanspeak.

 

RE: WOW! Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers. , posted on June 16, 2012 at 12:47:41
Presto
Audiophile

Posts: 5432
Location: Canada
Joined: November 10, 2004
Dan:

Some around here think the Dayton audio subs are not really "audiophile" quality, but I think that's a very subjective opinion at best. I've used these metal cone subs in a few projects now but only for home theatre. But, in a strange coincidence related to this very thread, I was listening to HT system upstairs last night for 2-channel music (for the first time, just for fun, really) and I gotta say I was quite surprised to say the least. In my throw-together HT system, I have the 10" version of that sub in the corner of the room with a Dayton audio 250W plate amp in a sealed box. Of course, I am running the main speakers as "large" and crossing in the sub at about 60hz which is where the sealed-box way fronts in the system.

So I am listening to this system in a "2.1 mode" with all effects off, using a Panasonic DMP-BD60 as a digital source (bitstream out) into a vintage Yamaha RXV995 receiver digital input. So the Yamaha is acting as the DAC, pre-amp and AMP you could say. (I can't believe a consumer DVD player with optical digital out into a vintage receiver acting as DAC can sound this good actually. Very impressive considering the price point of these admittedly mid-fi components.)

Back to the sub. I really can't believe how well this little 10" sub integrates with two 2-way speakers that are really more refined. The sub's sealed box design could have something to do with it. The bass sounds were coming out of the soundstage right where the midbass sounds were coming from. Now, in the room, the couch is against the wall and the speakers are only 24" from the front wall. These two things make the soundstage wider, shallower and more diffuse. Just by moving my head forward off the couch makes the sounstage much closer to an "audiophile" flavor, with a more concise center image, less diffuse and more palpable. Center image is tighter and gets deeper. But all that said, the bass follows along - it changes with the other soundstage changes.

Would I recommend the Dayton aluminum cone subs for music duty? Yes but with caveats. Lately I only use sealed box subs and that's just my preference. I also think most audiophiles who complain of sub integration issues are crossing at 80Hz or higher, with 2nd order slopes and are trying to get "more bass" (baffle step compensation?) rather than truly try to integrate the sub frequencies. After all, sub stands for "subsonic" or "below sonic", which is really down there. 80, 90 and 100Hz bass is not subsonic - it's surely sonic bass. It's low bass, but it's sonic.

Anyways, I would LOVE to hear that speaker design and listen to how they've integrated that metal cone sub with the world class midbass and tweeter they've intelligently selected. Speaker looks nice too, but I would love to see it in a dark red color, with a deep lustrous clearcoat finish. Piano black just isn't my thing these days.

I would also love to know the technical aspects of the design - especially how they integrated the sub with the Scan Speak midbass. That midbass has a very low Fs, something other 7" midwoofs are not famous for. Many designs use that 7" in a full-range design, in fact.

Yes, I would not hesitate to audition those!!

Cheers,
Presto

 

I agree, I would call 80 to 120Hz the midbass not sub territory. I would not cross a sub past say 63hz., posted on June 16, 2012 at 17:31:11
cfb
Audiophile

Posts: 1130
Location: Midwest
Joined: October 19, 2002
True subwoofer frequency range is the octave between 16 to 32 Hz. Low bass range the two octaves between 20 to 80 Hz, the midbass 80 to 120 Hz, upper bass 120 to 180 Hz, lower midrange 180 to 360 Hz, the middle midrange 360 to 1,500 Hz, upper midrange 1,500 to 3,000 Hz, lower treble and the heart of the treble the two octaves between 3,000 to 12,000 Hz and the upper treble anything above 12,000 Hz.

 

Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers. , posted on June 17, 2012 at 07:17:15
DanWilson
Audiophile

Posts: 99
Location: Longisland NY
Joined: December 9, 2002
Presto thanks for the info.
What are the best drivers you've tried for making speakers?
Scanspeak to me makes the best tweeters.
I love the Scanspeak Revelator mid. But i must say the Scanspeak Kelvar mid was not good. It was edgy sounding.

 

RE: "I would not cross a sub past say 63hz.", posted on June 17, 2012 at 20:15:24
willkayakforfood
Audiophile

Posts: 858
Joined: November 30, 2010
Contributor
  Since:
December 24, 2011
With my computer's speaker system (totally separate from main music system), out of necessity, the sub is crossing over at 90Hz (its high limit).

The satellite speakers I'm using are NHT Super Zeros (-3dB at 85Hz). The sub (HSU STF-1) has 90Hz as its maximum high point for "low pass" crossover. That's cutting it very, very close, but I'm happily surprised at just how well they're blending.

In my main system, I have floor standers (NHT Model 2) running full range (down to 40Hz), and the sub (M&K 12") crossing over just barely above 40Hz (going down to about 20Hz). This main system remains in another league altogether. Still, I'm very happy with the computer system as well, for what it is. I've not heard many--if any--"mere computer speaker systems" (not "main" systems") sound this good.

 

RE: WOW! Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers. , posted on June 20, 2012 at 07:32:11
delaney@rea-alp.com
Audiophile

Posts: 917
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 17, 2003
$13K retail. I'd really like to hear these or have someone review them.

 

RE: Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers. , posted on June 21, 2012 at 09:36:34
Presto
Audiophile

Posts: 5432
Location: Canada
Joined: November 10, 2004
Dan:

I have used Focal, Vifa, Seas, Audax, Peerless, Dayton Audio and probably a few others. Some Seas and Vifa drivers are excellent value, as are some of the Dayton products. If you go to zaphaudio.com he's got some fantastic test results for various drivers in easy to navigate "shootouts".

Cheers,
Presto

 

RE: "I would not cross a sub past say 63hz.", posted on June 21, 2012 at 09:40:26
Presto
Audiophile

Posts: 5432
Location: Canada
Joined: November 10, 2004
Yes, some smaller speakers will need a higher crossover point like that. In that case, I will run a "sub" under each speaker (except not for computer desktops of course). This way you get more of a pseudo-3-way than a sub/sat system. This is especially true if the sub lowpass filter is 2nd order. 2nd order + 90hz = too much sub localization for me.

I think this end of the spectrum is where many 'philes get "hard to integrate subs properly" from.

Myself, I love working with subs. Way more flexible than having you "sub" reproducing drivers stuck in the main speaker. Sub frequencies don't need to "blend" into the soundstage - they're naturally omnidirectional and if you're crossing over low enough and steep enough the sub-bass will blend into the sounstage with nary a problem.

Cheers,
Presto

 

RE: WOW! Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers. , posted on June 26, 2012 at 20:22:28
tomm15


 
O.k., the Model Three's are mine! Just took delivery of them today. Obviously just started breaking them in, but initial listening is awesome; tons of bottom end with open highs and natural midrange. They are actually Porsche Midnight Blue Metallic and my speakers include an upgrade to Scanspeak Beryllium tweeters.

 

BSI Model 3 in Silver. , posted on July 24, 2012 at 05:31:18
DanWilson
Audiophile

Posts: 99
Location: Longisland NY
Joined: December 9, 2002



BSI model 3 in Silver

 

RE: BSI Model 3 in Silver. , posted on July 24, 2012 at 10:38:59
bstew
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: NC
Joined: May 15, 2012
These are mine. They are Ferrari Grigio Silverstone (Dark Grey Metallic). I'm expecting delivery today.

 

A recent change of monitor speakers has made some positive difference here., posted on July 24, 2012 at 10:53:23
willkayakforfood
Audiophile

Posts: 858
Joined: November 30, 2010
Contributor
  Since:
December 24, 2011
Though the sound seemed "generally satisfactory" with the arrangement I had as described above, I decided it wasn't "entirely satisfactory" -- even for this small "computer desktop" system. This system was never meant to compete with my main music system - just to be a vast improvement over the cheesy "2.1 in a box" system used for several years in this context.

Since I really do like the [single] HSU sub for this application, I decided to try a different pair of monitor speakers. Something that might reach a bit lower in the frequency range, so that I could bring the sub's low pass filter a bit lower. I'm now using a pair of Napa Acoustic NA-208S monitors (ported), and they do reach noticeably lower than the NHT Super Zeros, with still a very decent sound. Blending with the sub is indeed better (with sub set to come in at lower frequency), and the overall sound is fuller/more substantial. Though this "near field" arrangement still doesn't seem as fully "life size" as the main system, it certainly does come closer to it than with the Super Zeros.

"Sub localization" isn't a problem. It now feels like all the sound--including all low bass--is coming from the monitors.

It's still just a 2.1 system, and for this limited application will remain so, but with all these new components, speakers, cables, and tubes beginning to show some positive "burning in" results, I'm quite pleased with the sound, and feel I can now let the "upgrading" end here. Here's the entire "laptop desktop 2.1 speaker system" as it stands...

Digital output from laptop USB: DH Labs Silver Sonic digital USB

DAC: Schiit Bifrost

Analog interconnect from DAC to integrated amp: Audio Art IC-3

Hybrid integrated amp: Maverick Audio TubeMagic A1 (2 x NOS Raytheon 6AK5)

Speaker wire: Currently, just 12 gauge OFC wire, but I may decide at some point to use some Clear Day Double Shotguns like I'm enjoying in my main system. For now though, the current wires are sounding fine.

Monitor speakers: Napa Acoustic NA-208S

Subwoofer: HSU Research STF-1

Headphones: Sennheiser HD600 w/HD650 cable [Note: With this TubeMagic A1 hybrid amp, when using headphones, the output section is supposedly "purely tube driven". Whatever it is, it sounds very nice with the headphones.]

DAC, integrated amp, and subwoofer are all using Pangea AC-14SE power cords.

As mentioned, this "little" system isn't meant to compete with the large main system, but it has certainly graduated from "system through which computer can make noise" to "respectable second system" status. Music is sounding pretty good through it, and for this, I'm pleased. :)

 

RE: BSI Model 3 in Silver. , posted on July 25, 2012 at 06:37:34
bstew
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: NC
Joined: May 15, 2012






Well I was told they where mine but they look bright. Here is a picture of mine that arrived yesterday.

 

RE: BSI Model 3 in Silver. , posted on August 14, 2012 at 18:33:55
Pete Schumacher
Manufacturer

Posts: 14
Location: St. Louis
Joined: August 14, 2012

Hey guys. Thought I'd post a pic of the system I built a couple years ago. Yes, even the baffle is curved!!! 2nd order acoustic slopes between woofer and mid as well as mid and tweeter.

Mine uses the Dayton RSS315, Scan Rev 15W, and Dayton Reference tweeter.

The resemblance to the woofer is uncanny, to say the least.

That BSI has the potential to be an amazing speaker, that's for sure. My Byzantium still thrills, though it's a true passive 3-way with that Dayton sub running to 350Hz.

It's a great and musical sub, and has excellent performance to well beyond 500Hz. The motor design uses Faraday rings for low inductance and low THD.

Here's the build thread for anyone interested.

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?215703-RSS315HF-4-as-the-anchor-of-a-3-way

 

RE: WOW! Pic of BSI speakers model 3. All Scanspeak drivers. , posted on February 28, 2013 at 16:43:24
ZEK34


 
So ya I too got the "large card" mailer which told me that if I became a "in home" demo rep that I would receive $2k per speaker pair sold. I'm going to look a bit further into this simply because I'm curious. I do know that my audio equipment would do just fine driving a set of Wilsons, yes it is that good. The heart of the system is a KRELL FPD-200, my other components are Krell as well. I simply can't help but wonder how these payout and performance ratings can be legit. The two (as far as I know) audio companies who have actually developed solid equipment and a solid sales market without brick and mortar shops are OPPO and EMOTIVA. The thing is though they spell out their entire business/sales strategy on the first page of both their websites, and they are brilliant. OPPO is now held in such high regard that I can't think of an Audiophile mag they haven't been mentioned in for well over a year. EMOTIVA's a bit behind them.
So why BSI? the only "official" sit I found for them, well lets just say lacked the source material one would expect form a company selling speakers that cost as much as a Civic.. Where are these prices coming from and if they are as good as claimed I should be able to demo them on my own for at least 30 day without dime one being charged me. They mention Scan Speak drivers, without question they are fantastic, but the finest drivers on the planet aren't going to sing as they should without a high quality "dead cabinet" and crossover network. Them simply mentioning a notable capacitor as being part of their crossover doesn't quite cut it for me. I also would ask about the cabinets construction. $1000.00 cars should have the paint job fitting of their cost. These are speakers, I don't need them to be Lotus yellow, I need them to have the flawless finish they promise. I will and am going to through my hat in the ring to become a private "dealer" I do hope they can deliver...

 

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