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Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD

99.224.115.162
Posted on October 27, 2009 at 17:38:23
Will_H
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Canada, Ontario
Joined: November 28, 2008
 Background: I've wanted a pair of M40/M40.1 since 2002. I've also wanted a McIntosh for almost as long, but not quite as "focused" on saving for it... don't know why.

But suddenly the new McIntosh MA6600 (and MA7000) integrated amps are really pressing all my buttons.

My dedicated listening room is 13' x 17', so if I get the M40.1, I would want an integrated amp with tone controls so that I could turn down the bass.

I have about $14K saved up... what would you do:

1)Buy the M40.1 + a NAD integrated amp (or any other integrated in this price range with tone controls)

2)Buy the Compact 7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 (or maybe MA7000)

Thanks,
Will
RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on November 8, 2009 at 18:55:05
Will_H
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Canada, Ontario
Joined: November 28, 2008
 Slight amendment... instead of a NAD integrated amp, I am leaning towards the Anthem Integrated 225. Looks like it has much better build quality. The reviews look promising. I will try to get an audition soon. Has everything I'm looking for... power, build quality, tone controls (defeatable), headphone, balanced input, balance control... heck, even a backlit universal remote! It's like a poor man's McIntosh. Why isn't this thing selling like hotcakes?!

I think this will match really well with the M40.1.

Then I can take my time and save up for those Macs in a couple of years.

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on November 7, 2009 at 20:53:43
spoiled-musician-not-gearhead
 I have the C7-ES3 in a bedroom setup (powered by a Naim integrated amp), and just got the M40.1's for the living room which is only slightly bigger than yours. Preamp & amp are both tube. I'm spoiled rotten, I know:). I had always felt that the 7's needed tubes, as I found them to be ever so slight "dry" even while being very tonally accurate. I had auditioned the M40.1's at Laurel Pacific Audio (quite an excellent price on a demo pair, by the way) in a larger room than mine, and was slightly nervous about them being too big for my room. Yes, there's is a bit of fatness towards the low end, but you get used to it quickly and it doesn't detract from te overall listening experience. Moreover, it's not tubby or uncontrolled at all. I'm an orchestral musician, and the low-end exaggeration isn't unlike being on the stage near the lower instruments. Long story short, the M40.1's do everything the 7's do so much better that it's worth the trade-offs. And I think the demo pair is still at Laurel. (I have no affiliation of any kind.) Good luck and let us know what you decide!

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on November 8, 2009 at 09:28:51
Will_H
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Canada, Ontario
Joined: November 28, 2008
 Thanks for the feedback... that sounds very promising for the M40.1 in my room.

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on November 3, 2009 at 14:28:11
northernquad
Audiophile

Posts: 42
Joined: February 26, 2005
 Hey,

I have a still smaller room and went for the baby Harbeths over the M30s and have been very happy with them. You won't lose much in a smaller room with the Compact 7s. They're superb, and should work beautifully with either Mac integrated. I use a Sugden A21SE, but had I found a McIntosh in my price range I would have been tempted. Enjoy,

n

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on October 29, 2009 at 21:42:44
Spendor Harbeth
Audiophile

Posts: 601
Location: Left Coast
Joined: May 15, 2009
 I have both speakers. Go with the Compact 7 and the McIntosh amps.

I STRONGLY, STRONGLY think Harbeth and tubes are a match made in heaven.

Better to go with the C7 and tubes, then the M40.1 and an NAD.

Buy used, posted on October 29, 2009 at 13:24:38
fin1bxn@msn.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1459
Location: new jersey
Joined: November 15, 2005
 I saw a Mc 6600 for $3500 and a pr of 40 (not40.1) for $4000

No affiliation

RE: Buy used, posted on October 29, 2009 at 18:21:31
Will_H
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Canada, Ontario
Joined: November 28, 2008
 That thought has entered my mind several times over the last 7 years, as I put $100 every month into my Harbeth fund... I think at this point, only new will do for me!

I might consider a used Mac6600, but I've never seen one for sale in Canada. The cost of getting a unit in from the US seems barely worth it... may as well get new.

The room in the photo . . ., posted on October 29, 2009 at 10:55:38
Frank E
Audiophile

Posts: 645
Joined: May 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 8, 2000
 doesn't look much more than 13ft wide. If you buy a speaker other than the one you've waited 7 years for, you may regret it in the long run. No amplifier in the world can make up for passing on the speaker that's potentially right for you. Take your time on this. In your life there are 10 amplifiers for every speaker.

See if you can find a dealer who will let you audition those speakers in your room. Play with placement and try some different amplifiers (and cabling),also on audition, with them. The speakers will let you know if they're the right ones. Follow your instincts.

I'd like to have a dedicated room and 14 grand in my pocket. :')
RE: The room in the photo . . ., posted on October 30, 2009 at 22:50:16
Champion
Audiophile

Posts: 54
Joined: September 25, 2001
 'No amplifier in the world can make up for passing on the speaker that's potentially right for you. Take your time on this. In your life there are 10 amplifiers for every speaker.'

I agree with you totally. I can't comment on whether M40 will suit your room, but definitely get the speakers that you really like. Unless you have decided this is your last system and will never upgrade anything, spend more on the speakers that you really like and then upgrade you amps in the future (hopefully in the near future :D ).

RE: The room in the photo . . ., posted on October 29, 2009 at 18:23:57
Will_H
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Canada, Ontario
Joined: November 28, 2008
 I agree with you! That's my problem... my head says go for the Mac and C7-ES3, but my heart really wants that M40.1. Boy, this really is the Asylum!

I might just wait another month or 2 and see if the Mac is just a "passing flame"... :)

p.s. that $14K was built up slowly over the past seven years... put away some money every paycheck... then recently sold off my previous system (Epos M16i and Creek Destiny) to get ready for the big jump. But then I had to go listen to (and touch) the Macs.

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on October 29, 2009 at 08:52:05
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 Forget how the speakers may have sounded when you heard them in another setting, and buy the speaker best suited to the size of your room which I think you'd agree is the Harbeth.

In my opinion, buying an amp with tone controls to reduce the bass of a bigger speaker is a bit like buying a car with a bigger engine because it has better performance, then leaving the hand-brake part on to stop it from going too fast.

The speaker/room interface has, in my opinion, the biggest influence on sound so look to get that right and then buy the most resolving, tone-control-free amp you can afford, safe in the knowledge you will get all the benefits of that resolution, especially when it comes to bass quality.


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on October 29, 2009 at 05:29:27
jimmyjames
Audiophile

Posts: 3176
Location: Raleighwood
Joined: February 20, 2001
 just my opinion but your listening room is too small for the M40 Harbs. Get the C7 and whatever amp floats your boat. I am running the littlest NAD (C315BEE) with the littlest Harbs (HP3ES) on my desktop and could not be happier with the sound. I owned the NAD C325BEE and with VS VR1's, the system sounded like crap and amp wimped out under the load. The new NAD C327 is supposed to be special but I would buy it only from a dealer offering 30 day return option.

"E pur si muove...And yet it moves"
easy..the mac, posted on October 28, 2009 at 11:24:39
jdouglas51
Industry Professional

Posts: 651
Location: arizona
Joined: November 11, 2005
 the harbeth 40's are great, but so are a hundered others. the make is a lifetime keeper, no matter what the speakers are. ask youself which piece is forever then do it.

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on October 28, 2009 at 09:44:40
Terry
Audiophile

Posts: 1002
Joined: August 27, 2000
 I have listened to M40s and M30s in a room about the size of yours numerous times and, in my humble opinion, you don't want the 40's. You have to be able to keep the 40s, in particular, well away from room boundaries if you are going to prevent bass overload (which will also colour the lower midrange) and you will have difficulty in such a narrow room. On the other hand, if you can set-up the 40s along the long wall, as recommended by the Audio Physics method, you might be able to get the 40s to work successfully. Still, I think the C7s are a safer bet.

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on October 28, 2009 at 16:52:37
Will_H
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Canada, Ontario
Joined: November 28, 2008
 Yes, that's what I was planning with either the C7-ES3 or M40.1 ... set them up against the long wall and listen nearfield.

I know the bass with the M40.1 would be a problem, that's why I would want an integrated amp with tone controls to turn down the bass.

Thanks for your input.

Oh boy, posted on October 27, 2009 at 18:12:38
PabloP
Audiophile

Posts: 13471
Joined: January 23, 2001
 In general, I would say get the best speakers and spend less on the amplifier. Objectively, the M40's are "better" than the C7s'. They go deeper and play louder. But, suitability is a concerm. I have a larger listening room than the one you dscribe, but it isn't dedicated, so I've never been tempted by the M40's. I don't think they would work in a room the size of yours. Without commenting on the sonic differences between the NAD and the Mac, if any, aesthetically, I would prefer the Mac and the C7's. Add a subwoofer or two. If the room were twice the size, and dedicated, I'd go with the M40's.

________

"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
RE: Oh boy, posted on October 28, 2009 at 03:55:07
Will_H
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Canada, Ontario
Joined: November 28, 2008
 I also agree that in general one should buy the best speaker possible. I don't need the extra loudness capability of the M40, but I do like it's added sense of scale, superior low-volume ability (although the C7-ES3 is already better than most), and of course bass extension.

I also agree with your aesthetic comments... sigh.... tough choice.

Thanks for your input.

I second Pablo: smaller speakers in that space. Taming bass extension with, posted on October 28, 2009 at 17:24:42
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 26558
Location: Willamette Valley OR
Joined: April 9, 2006
 tone controls isn't a zero-sum game.

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on October 27, 2009 at 17:50:34
bullethead
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Location: New York
Joined: June 15, 2009
Contributor
  Since: July 26, 2009
 I have the C7-ES3, nice choice, you could spend more on some Harbeth's, but it's a great speaker...

Can't comment on the M40.1 or the McIntosh equipment however..., but stay away from NAD. IMHO

RE: Harbeth C7-ES3 + McIntosh MA6600 or Harbeth M40.1 + NAD, posted on October 28, 2009 at 04:00:00
Will_H
Audiophile

Posts: 16
Location: Canada, Ontario
Joined: November 28, 2008
 Yes, the C7-ES3 is my 2nd favorite Harbeth after the M40/M40.1 (I used to own the C7-ES2... that's one sale I really regret)

To me, the SHL5 is too laid back/reserved and I have a problem with spending more on the M30 but getting less bass.

The guy that services my equipment said the same thing about NAD., posted on October 28, 2009 at 10:51:08
The Real Dick Hertz
Audiophile

Posts: 9058
Location: So. Calif.
Joined: May 25, 2006
 Cheap parts in the new stuff makes for reliability concerns. He said he sees a lot of NAD in for repair. Investing in the Mac is a no brainer relative to the NAD. If you decide to sell the Mac later, you'll get a much better return than the NAD.

But the M30 is a much better integrated and accurate speaker, posted on October 28, 2009 at 08:09:28
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 8445
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 It is extremely life-like in it presentation and very listenable without putting you to sleep. It's the kind of speaker you don't want to stop listening to.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"

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