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UPS

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Posted on June 8, 2009 at 10:10:22
lelandaudio
Dealer

Posts: 449
Location: Omaha NE
Joined: September 8, 2006
 I got in some equipment from Canada that was shipped via UPS. I paid the seller for the shipping, as agreed upon, in advance. The seller chose UPS. Friday, I got a bill from UPS for $24.50 for filling out Customs paperwork. Note that there was no customs charge. This is just UPS wanting money from me for filling out aperwork.

I called them today to explain their error in billing me. I explained that there is no contractual relationship between me and UPS. They claim that I agreed to their terms when I accepted delivery. And they said that if I don't pay (which I adamantly won't) it will go to collections.

Anyone else had this experience with UPS? How did you resolve it?

The error is likely yours., posted on July 23, 2009 at 22:08:12
astralnavigator
Audiophile

Posts: 570
Location: North York, Ontario
Joined: June 28, 2009
 UPS clearly offers three levels of shipping. The top two - express and expedited - include costs of clearing through customs.

The cheapest level, ground, is CLEARLY stated on the UPS website and their shipping documents to NOT include costs of clearing.

My suspicion is that you took the cheap route and had it shipped ground.

NAFTA has to do with customs charges, not brokerage fees.

UPS is very clear about this. No fault on the part of UPS.

Clarification and Follow-up, posted on July 29, 2009 at 11:38:32
lelandaudio
Dealer

Posts: 449
Location: Omaha NE
Joined: September 8, 2006
 I did not choose the shipper, the seller did. I made no error. The seller contracted with UPS for a service. I am not a party to that contract.

BTW, USPS charges nothing for customs paperwork.

Yes, it was marked NAFTA shipment. I told them to go to hell. I will never use UPS again., posted on June 11, 2009 at 10:42:07
Norm
Audiophile

Posts: 14911
Joined: September 6, 2000
 Nor will the manufacturer.

Nice to get some confirmation of this, posted on June 10, 2009 at 08:14:54
riffer
Audiophile

Posts: 434
Location: Toronto
Joined: December 2, 2004
 I suspected this was happening, but was unable to get confimation from a US source before.

US buyers now have to do what knowledgeable buyers in Canada do. Calculate the all-in price of various shipping methods.

Anyone who makes the effort will find a nice surprise - for low value, large items, UPS Ground or Fedex Ground can still be less expensive all-in than other shipping methods, especially if the package exceeds the maximum weight or shipping dimensions of Canada Post/USPS.

A few other things:

UPS and Fedex will hit up the shipper for the fees if you don't pay.
DHL may do this as well, but I am not sure what services.

"US buyers now have to do what knowledgeable buyers in Canada do. Calculate the all-in.,......, posted on June 10, 2009 at 11:31:10
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5600
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2008
 price of various shipping methods."

Wrong-package receivers don't need to do shit. It's not up to the recipient of a package to calculate the shipping fees. If UPS is adding some bogus charge to process the package as it crosses the border, that should be easily calculated at the same time as the shipping charges, and added to the shipping cost. The sender and receiver can than, if necessary, discuss payment and alternatives.

"UPS and Fedex will hit up the shipper for the fees if you don't pay.'

Don't care. The shipper can then make the same argument that I just made-that the charge should have been added on when the package was sent, and the shipper is not responsible for an after-the-fact billing. The shipper can then deal with it however he sees fit-as I've done.

Once again-this is not a Customs charge handed to UPS by either the U.S. or Canadian government-it's a processing fee that UPS is charging the recipient of a package for what their employees are already being paid to do: ship stuff in big brown trucks.



"dammit"

Just pay it, and call it a lesson learned..., posted on June 10, 2009 at 05:49:45
StephenJK
Audiophile

Posts: 470
Location: North Bay, Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2006
Contributor
  Since: January 17, 2007
 UPS and Fedex, if a shipment goes to Canada by ground, will arbitrarily add what they call brokerage fees. I had a $40 item from the USA show up with $36 in charges. I've been told they don't do it on shipments by air, but can't say for sure.

They've been doing it for years, and there's not a lot you can do about it, other than refuse the shipment.

They have trained me to always contact the shipper and ask if they can ship by USPS. If it can't, no sale.

Stephen

No, just use USPS. No problems and cheaper. nt, posted on June 11, 2009 at 10:43:52
Norm
Audiophile

Posts: 14911
Joined: September 6, 2000
 a

RE: So, using that logic, when UPS starts, posted on June 10, 2009 at 11:13:54
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5600
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2008
 charging the recipient of packages an arbitrary, non-contractual fee for interstate deliveries, or intercity deliveries, or cross town deliveries, and the package recipient knows nothing of that fee until he receives a bill days or weeks after the package has arrived, we should simply "just pay it, and call it a lesson learned". I'm saying bullshit to that.

Because you say "..there's not a lot you can do about it, other than refuse the shipment.", I'm not sure you understand the situation. The UPS driver, when delivering the package, does not give the recipient any warning that they will soon be receiving a bill from UPS, so there is no reason to "refuse the package" out of protest. Re-read the OP's post-the package is delivered, a bill is later received in the mail, the package recipient has no prior knowledge that he would be charged, or be liable for the bill. Also, UPS is not trying to recoup any 'customs charges' they might have paid when the package crossed the border-it's simply a processing fee that UPS is tacking on to their shipping cost.

These charges, if real, should be calculated during the shipping process along with the actual shipping cost, and it's mystifying to me why they aren't-unless, as I suspect, UPS is just trying to squeeze some extra money out of frightened and gullible consumers who, when they see the word 'customs' on the bill, fear real reprisal.




"dammit"

Yep., posted on June 10, 2009 at 14:01:12
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5600
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2008
 From what I've read, there's a big difference between U.S. to Canada, and vice versa. IIRC, you pay actual customs charges, and we don't. At least, for the occasional stuff I order. But I have no real knowledge of the laws, etc, governing cross-border package shipping, just my experience as outlined in my first post on this thread (below).



"dammit"

I do understand the situation, but UPS are pretty clever about it...., posted on June 10, 2009 at 12:00:58
StephenJK
Audiophile

Posts: 470
Location: North Bay, Ontario
Joined: November 22, 2006
Contributor
  Since: January 17, 2007
 My experience with UPS on this sort of thing, I think 4 or 5 times, has been that, at least in Canada, they don't give you the package unless you pay the whole shot. I agree, if I got a bill in the mail later, I would throw it in the trash.

Yes. I've had it happen twice., posted on June 8, 2009 at 15:49:13
powermatic
Audiophile

Posts: 5600
Location: central oregon
Joined: November 24, 2005
Contributor
  Since: March 1, 2008
 Both times I tossed the bill in the circular file. I not only was not (ever) contacted by a collection agency, I did not receive a follow-up bill when I didn't pay. UPS delivery service to my house has not been disrupted, and no driver has ever mentioned the 'bill' to me. In fact, no follow up of any kind from anyone.

As for their explanation that you "agreed to their terms when (you) accepted delivery", I'm guessing that they're on very shaky legal ground with that explanation, which is why they don't press the issue. Even if you signed for the package (unusual, at least for me) you're not given a receipt outlining that you've signed for anything other than an acknowledgment that the item has been delivered. I'd imagine that they realize that pushing for payment through a collection agency could easily lead to a shit storm of bad publicity which would either require them to eliminate the program entirely, or change it so that there was knowledge and agreement before delivery that this charge would be assessed. I'd also imagine that if they really believed in the legality of this program, your package would be COD-in this case, requiring payment for the 'customs charge'.

In sum, I wouldn't pay both from lack of necessity, and on general principle to keep from encouraging a particularly scummy business practice.

Edit: I recall being tempted, the second time, to return the bill with a 'shove it up your ass' type of message, but then thought 'why tempt fate' :-)



"dammit"

Not sure there's much you can do..., posted on June 8, 2009 at 13:37:38
GTShelby350
Audiophile

Posts: 454
Location: So Cal
Joined: February 23, 2008
 As noble your cause may be... $24.50 ain't worth going thru the hassle of being harrassed by collections agents, and having a ding on your credit score (which will happen if they send it to collections).

I would just bite the bullet, pay the $24.50, and next time you buy somethin from Canadia, insist they send it thru the mail... no brokerage fees.

RE: Not sure there's much you can do..., posted on June 8, 2009 at 13:44:42
lelandaudio
Dealer

Posts: 449
Location: Omaha NE
Joined: September 8, 2006
 I refuse to play the "worry about your credit rating" game. If you do that, you willingly give others unwarranted control over you. It's implicitly saying, "Sure, you can screw me a little, because you're a big company, and it's in my relative benefit to get screwed a little than have my credit rating suffer."

I will not pay the undue charge. I will sue if the damage my credit rating.

RE: Not sure there's much you can do..., posted on June 8, 2009 at 18:32:48
becketma@yahoo.com
Audiophile

Posts: 958
Location: Sunny Tucson AZ
Joined: May 21, 2007
 Contact your State's Attourney General.
They will send a form to you.
UPS can then explain how, why they are billing you for a service you haven't agreed to.

Best from hot Tucson
Bob
"He (R.M. Nixon) was a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena, and the style of a poison toad." H. S. Thompson

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