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2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!

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Posted on September 30, 2016 at 06:07:28
banpuku
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Joined: January 19, 2006
Over the past 2 years I had an desire to match an SET amp with my Quad 63s. Nearly everyone in the industry that I talked to said this would be a poor match. However, with some encouragement from Mikey Samra and Kent McCullum at eStat Solutions, under the right conditions, this is quite a beautiful match.

I purchased a 2A3 DHT SET from Tube Audio Labs. Min Yang, owner of Tube Audio Labs, worked with me to configure a 2A3 schematic with components to my desire. The build quality of the amp was very good. Point to point wiring was well executed. Out of the box the amp sounded very good and only improved over time as I tweak a few caps and resistors. (FYI: if you are shopping for a DHT SET, please contact Min at Tube Audio Labs. He is first rate, honest and will help you.)

The first thing that should be noted is my listening environment and musical preferences. I have a 14'W x 17'L x 9'H listening room. The Quads are about 8 or 9 feet from the listening position. Most of my listening is done with about 85-88db. 90% of the time I listen to chamber music and classical solo, including piano. I sometimes push the amp above 90db when listening to rock or large scale orchestra.

So, can a DHT SET amp drive the Quads. Yes, absolutely, within sound pressure limits of about 90-95db or less. For me, this is quite loud and the older I get the less I listen to loud music. Within the 80-90db range, the 2A3 3.5 watts is just perfect with my Quads. I get a natural tonal palette, very very good dynamics and transients, super clean and smooth hi frequencies. Low end is as fast and clean as I have ever heard in my system. And yes, within its limits of 80-90db, the low end has great punch. Is the low end as good as my former Boulder 2060, no. But I don't need a low end playing below 30hz. Very very little chamber music at 30hz or less. Unless you listen to large scale orchestra or organ music, you will not miss the bottom bottom bottom below 30hz. Yes, the amp will clip when pushed about that 90-95db range on my Quads.

I am tweaking the amp continuously including some power supply upgrades that have really added to the dynamic range of the amp. For the first time in 30 years of audio, my system can play piano with near lifelike quality. Especially the lower piano register comes thru with clarity and impact.

The thing I like most about the 2A3 amp is that it allows me to easily hear differences between tubes, caps, resistors and cartridge changes. It is a very transparent amplifier with neutral and natural tonal balance.

So, if you ever wondered about whether or not a SET can drive Quads, I say yes, within limits. It can be quite captivating. Highly recommended.






 

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RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on September 30, 2016 at 08:09:24
gilmorneau
Audiophile

Posts: 288
Location: Colorado
Joined: August 10, 2004
My first SET amp was a 45 driving ESL 57's. Yes, it can be done, and it sounds fantastic! I remember thinking I'd never heard anything so good, but I had to sit closer than normal to the speakers (which works fine with Quads, BTW). Just don't expect it to go loud. ;-)

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 1, 2016 at 13:23:54
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
I'm not big on SETS but I do have two pairs of them..Anyway,I have the big Martin Logan CLXs which are two panel speakers and were able to drive them with an 845 SET mono blocks.OTOH,NAZ,who has the biggest Martin Logan system which is a combo of panels and dynamic drivers drives his panels with
parallel SET 845 mono blocs pushing about 70wpc. The SETs are running the panels on his from 270cps on up I believe and then he uses SS amps for the bass.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 4, 2016 at 17:48:50
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 15177
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: August 8, 2001
This isn't much news to me - the only time I have ever liked Magnepan speakers was with the Audio Note SORO a Single Ended SEP amp. Weirdly - I am not a big fan of the SORO from Audio Note - probably my least favorite amplifier from them - but that combo worked really well. Much better than when I heard the same speakers with flagship amps from Bryston, Classe, Krell, and McIntosh. So go figure - 18 watts per channel. Give up some volume for quality; but, what are we audiophiles or boom car aficionados?

The same dealer also carries Quad (and formerly Acoustat and Martin Logan) and once again the Quad was magic with the Audio Note OTO a 10 watt SEP). No wonder Quad hired Audio Note's Andy Grove to design their flagship amplifiers!

It comes down to the quality of the output transformers and solid design. Then it's a matter of volume to spl ratio.

SS watts are dirt cheap. And no one can tell them apart in blind level matched sessions so even if the Krell at $20,000 is better than the Rotel at $2,000 it's not like the difference was massive - if it was - someone would take the million dollar challenge to pass the test from James Randi - no one has. So the difference at best is pretty small.

So buy that used Rotel or NAD (the ones (and there are ones) that put out 1kw at 1 ohm - used for $500 and now you have your big loud amplifier when you have your parties or you want to play your big music at big levels. For the other 90% of the music collection get your 8-10 watt SET amp and use that to listen for "quality". I have never heard a push pull amp beat a quality SET amp - and some SET amps are a LOT more powerful sounding than others.

I remember directly comparing the flagship Cary 300B to the Audio Note Kit One - same room same easy to drive speakers and what floored me was the astounding bass control and depth of the kit versus the flabby wooshy bass of the Cary (needless to say they no longer cary Cary). I like the Cary in the midrange up - sweet smooth lovely but man percussion, bass eesh. If I met the Cary first - I can tell you my opinion of SET amps would be a helluva lot different today.

The OTO with the Quad or B&W801 was strikingly good - but volume limited. And if you are paying that price for that set-up you have to have the volume too IMO. Solution - those cheapie 1kw amps. Or the expensive option is to buy monster 845 and 211. But a number of them aren't monster enough and they lose the finer points of lower power SET amps unless you spend big (Jinro/Tomei/Ongaku big). Even my LM 219IA isn't as refined as AN's entry OTO Phono SE. It is more powerful sounding though - but doesn't have quite the magic. So it goes. Can't get it all from one box.

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 5, 2016 at 06:01:28
Naz
Audiophile

Posts: 2184
Location: Sydney
Joined: September 2, 2005
Close Mikey, the 845s drive the midbass arrays too (8 x 7" drivers each side), right down to where the 8 x 12" subs (each side) take over.

The important thing is that no other amps sound near as good as good SETs on the ESL portion, which handle the critical mids and highs.

Naz

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 5, 2016 at 22:25:36
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
Naz
Can you post a photo again of amps and speakers? Those amps and speakers are works of art by themselves.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 6, 2016 at 02:30:27
Naz
Audiophile

Posts: 2184
Location: Sydney
Joined: September 2, 2005






Latest pic I have and one of the cover of a recent article on my system in May Sound Travels (name changed to Pete Smith to protect the guilty:)
BTW, I mentioned Quads as one of my first memories of high end audio that truly impressed me.

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 7, 2016 at 13:48:20
91derlust
Audiophile

Posts: 1101
Joined: December 25, 2014
I own a similar amp. Have driven Ambience ribbons with it to good effect, but it does run out of steam at high volumes, which I listen at rarely. I bet your system sounds very nice!

What power supply mods are you trying - I'd like to learn more!

Cheers,
91.

"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 7, 2016 at 14:21:53
banpuku
Audiophile

Posts: 1008
Joined: January 19, 2006
I have been adding in a couple of chokes and WIMA DC Link capacitors to the power supply. So, now I have an L1 C1 L2 C2 C3 power supply. Additionally, I removed the hum potentiometer which was good and bad, as it added some hum but also made the tonal balance better and more transparent. Since I have a small bit of hum, I am going to try Rod Coleman filament regulators. Once the Coleman regulators go in, then I may go with an Ultrapath schematic for filament supply. This will remove a large capacitor from the audio signal.

My system sounds better than ever. Super transparent without any glare or harshness. I also had to rewire the power transformer and used 12 gauge silver coated copper wire. It sounds better than the cheapie wire that came from the factory.

I am looking to replace the power transformer, but have yet to find any specific brand / model that looks like a sonic improvement. Any ideas on this?

Pat

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 16, 2016 at 00:06:06
Michael Samra
Dealer

Posts: 36118
Location: saginaw michigan
Joined: January 30, 2005
Nice.Very beautiful system.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken

 

RE: 2A3 SET & Quads ESL 63: YES!!!, posted on October 16, 2016 at 21:20:29
Naz
Audiophile

Posts: 2184
Location: Sydney
Joined: September 2, 2005
Thanks, it sounds pretty darn good too. Took me a long time to get it that way and SET is a major part of the end result. The perception that SET is only good for super efficient speakers is a myth, I can categorically attest to that and others who have heard it will support me!

BTW, my original 845 SETs are running my brother's Wilson Duets quite happily and sounding better than any am he has had in his system. These speakers also aren't particularly efficient but his system sounds way better than it ought!

Naz

 

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