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I got Dick's Picks 36 today and. . .

98.210.41.85
Posted on November 6, 2009 at 18:58:59
John PA
Audiophile

Posts: 2858
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Joined: August 27, 2000
 as usual I don't find anything exception with the sound. Boxed in, lacking in extension and far from transparent. I was hoping for at least some open sound but it sound like a cassette recording. It may have not had any equalization but maybe it should have.

The Dead Set, The Closing of Winterland and a few others are excellent but sadly . .. so many are wanting in what I really want, a good recording that will involve me in the sound. I was listening to the Dead Set again today on a new dual dac prototype from a friend who is developing it and the sound was excellent. Using the same dac I just can't pull out the sound. It is boxy lacks anything but a canned approach. IMHO and as always, YMMV. :^)

edit:

Ok I am reading the notes that come with the set. On how clarity was strived for and the feeling of audience and space. All I can do is ????? Please, this is a fairly muddy recording, so far and I get no sense of depth, transparency or stage. What I get is focus on, to a degree, voice and somewhere there are instruments. It feels like a fishbowl on my head. That's what I hear.


The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
iRiver H140/120gb/iBasso D10/Monica II Dac, modified Woo 6/Ultrasone Ed. 9/JH13 Pro IEM's

see images at: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Getting past the Quality barrier ..., posted on November 8, 2009 at 20:47:46
GratefulBob
Audiophile

Posts: 27
Location: New England
Joined: September 4, 2007
Hey John - ArdRi put it well. Most of us who have been listening to Dead bootlegs for decades have a different perspective. I still have at least a few hundred cassette tapes - concert bootlegs - most of them audience recordings of less than stellar, absolute audio quality. But some of the performances ... !! Breathtaking - and I totally *love* listening to them. And let me say, sometimes a *really* good audience tape is superior to a soundboard. The soundboards can be "flat," and you lose the excitement of the audience and sound of the hall. Really, a good audience tape can beat the boards.

However, most of my audience tapes weren't that good. But my mind easily filled in what was missing - and the performance would take me from there. But where I'm coming from is having attended about a hundred Dead shows (not actually a huge number in Deadhead circles), and having been "brought up" on marginal quality tapes. So, I learned to love and appreciate what I could get.

Today .... whew! Obtaining "tapes" (digital downloads or CDs) is just SOOOOO much easier than "back in the day." And, as I recall, you've mentioned that you (sadly) never got to see the band live. So, now that you've discovered the "magic," you really want to get the best possible experience, so the quality matters to you. And, in general, I think, you appreciate very high quality sound from your system. Fair enough.

Here's the rub, though: we are blessed with a HUGE number of live Dead recordings, because the band believed from early on in capturing the performances to reflect on later - and, when audience members started capturing the performances too, the band didn't mind and let them. BUT, only a limited number of shows were captured with the express *intent* of releasing a "professional" recording. Some performances were filmed and/or captured on multi-track tape - setting the stage for a great sounding release (assuming the band played well). But the Dick's Picks and Road Trips releases are all from the bands simple 2-track soundboard tapes that were never intended for commercial release. Now, by aging Deadhead standards, these tapes, with a touch of mastering, sound pretty darn good. But they're just not going to be candidates for any audiophile awards.

The Closing of Winterland was multi-tracked, as were the acoustic/electric sessions in New York and San Fran that yielded Dead Set (and, acoustic, Reckoning - which you should get if you don't have it - though try to listen to some samples before buying. I love acoustic Dead, but YMMV.) There are other current releases from multi-track tapes, though I'd need to check to be certain before recommending 'em to you (the old website identified the multi-tracked releases, but I'm not sure it's so easy to tell, now.) Of course, even among the multi-tracked releases, quality varies.

However, the bottom line is really as ArdRi was saying, there's some mind-blowing musical performances that you'll cut yourself off from if, as soon as the disc starts playing, you are too upset by the quality.

Honestly, I share you love of sound quality. I take great pleasure in recordings of breathtaking sound quality (hopfully bundled with equal measure of performance quality), and I have been disappointing with recordings I have bought where I felt the sound was bad. So why, and how, do I indulge these releases from the Dead? Well, I'm sure that, as said above, it's because I am so smitten with their music, and I learned to love recordings of FAR inferior quality, so that, to me, these DO sound GREAT!

For now, you may want to try to focus on the commercially released multi-tracks. It'll be easier for you to get into 'em. But, like ArdRi, I encourage you to *try* to suspend the quality judge, and let yourself listen to some staggering performances, even though with less than stellar sonics. I know you've come to appreciate this band; and I think you'll be glad if you can get past the quality barrier.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now ;-) Listen to the music play, ... bob
It definitley took me time to develop the desire, posted on November 10, 2009 at 21:42:11
ArdRi
Audiophile

Posts: 1655
Location: Northeast USA
Joined: January 29, 2006



to first even entertain some recordings.. my first real job was with the old Tech Hi-fi back in 1981.. well they could get some decent gear now and then but the guys were Audio Enthusiasts and virtually uniformly disregarded the Grateful Dead. A kid used to come into the shop and copy his older brother's and a friend's cassettes and he got me interested in the Dead. Went to a bunch of shows and eventually moved to california. for the first couple of years I was meeting people who had incredible collections of what most Deadheads would consider great tapes but to me they were something to get over, something with which to put up. At some point I discovered the Music behind the sound. Then the thrill of hearing them create Music took priority over the sound of the recording. I still certainly do feel regret and disapoinment when I realize while listening to a Dead show that the playing is full of great inspriation and the players are in top form but the recrding is wanting. Maybe it has some hiss or there's a damned buzz or its a little muddy.. The only thing that changed was I learned over time to hear the in creative process a worth in itself beyond the sound quality.. I suspect Eric Clapton sits in hushed reverence when he hears an old 78 rpm record of some delta bluesman.. I'm really just saying the amazment at connecting with a creative event means more to me ultimately than the relative quality of the recroding..

If you could look thru time into the past

I got Vol 3 No 1 Roda Trips 1979 Okalkand and Let it Rock . ., posted on November 9, 2009 at 19:49:48
John PA
Audiophile

Posts: 2858
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Joined: August 27, 2000
 today. Will report back. :^)

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I understand what you are saying I guess having not seen them live that to hear recordings that are excellent sounding and with great playing, I get transported there as if in a time machine. It is the only way I will ever experience it. On the rest of the stuff I try to imagine what it was like and frankly, sometimes the sound live wasn't always great anyway according to some postings I have read. it is all a mix and that is ok. It is what we have.
The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
iRiver H140/120gb/iBasso D10/Monica II Dac, modified Woo 6/Ultrasone Ed. 9/JH13 Pro IEM's

see images at: www.pbase.com/jamato8
I've got to say .. as someone who's been, posted on November 6, 2009 at 21:10:20
ArdRi
Audiophile

Posts: 1655
Location: Northeast USA
Joined: January 29, 2006



listening to Grateful Dead bootlegs for 30 years.... I get a laugh out of you..lol

Man the days when we would virtually cream our jeans to get a halfway decent tape from soemone's older brother..

Hoenstly.. its soemthing you might wnat to consider that the playing is still perceptable even in less than optimal recordings.. If I shunned sub primo recordings because I was put off by some lack in the audio characteristics I'd have missed out on heaps of incredible live music making.

For instance have you heard Road Trips Vol2. #3 at the Demoins Iowa fairgrounds? June 16,1974? I had this tape years ago mislabeled WInterland I think. I haven't heard the Official release yet but unless there was another recording source from which they produced this issue It was not one of the best sounding recrodings to say the least BUT it had some kind of magical quality to it.. I think it has to do with it being an Outdoor venue and the Wall-Of Sound creating just a slight almost imperceptable echo with the Soundboard thru the stage mic's but the Playing.... its monumental consider the Eyes> Big River... If I was only willing to listen to this recording for its audio quality I'd have shut it off before I ever heard this section of the show.. and the same thing goes for hundres of shows.. try this one on for size. I would not want to imagine never having heard this show becaseu its audio characteristics failed to meet a certain high standard.. I just had to learn to listen thru to hear what was being created.

Listening to this show i can invision the Giant Summer California Sun solemnly bowing behind the stage as the band sillouetted plays to a chosen few with wondering mouths agape at the protogalactic bliss drenched sounds flying from the instruments

I hear you but when Paying. ., posted on November 7, 2009 at 04:22:04
John PA
Audiophile

Posts: 2858
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Joined: August 27, 2000
 and having read on the GD site that this recording was clear etc. . a different image comes to mind like that of Dead Set and even if not as good at least near. It is one thing to get copies of copies of a bootleg.

Hey its all good. I didn't say the music was bad but the recording doesn't live up to what the booklet lets on that it should. If I tell you a car is going to get 60 mpg and it gets 30 well . . .
The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
iRiver H140/120gb/iBasso D10/Monica II Dac, modified Woo 6/Ultrasone Ed. 9/JH13 Pro IEM's

see images at: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Point taken, posted on November 7, 2009 at 11:33:54
ArdRi
Audiophile

Posts: 1655
Location: Northeast USA
Joined: January 29, 2006
 If you can name any unofficiallay released shows you'd heard and of which you liked the sound maybe I can find others.. if you've never liked any of the unofficially available soundboards enough to enjoy I guess your over all exposure to them will just have to rmeain limited. pity,lol..

I have heard very few . ., posted on November 7, 2009 at 18:26:09
John PA
Audiophile

Posts: 2858
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Joined: August 27, 2000
 so there is no way I can give you a qualified answer. I am still trying to figure out how to download that Prince bootleg. :^)
The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
iRiver H140/120gb/iBasso D10/Monica II Dac, modified Woo 6/Ultrasone Ed. 9/JH13 Pro IEM's

see images at: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Try, posted on November 6, 2009 at 19:03:06
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 35665
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
 a 20 year old single malt...Sorry, it seemed to leap from my system...Maybe because I wished it to be so.
http://routes61and49.com/index.php?go=home
Hey the booklet that came with it is great fun .. ., posted on November 6, 2009 at 19:13:17
John PA
Audiophile

Posts: 2858
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Joined: August 27, 2000
 nice images and clips from the newspaper.

Larry its all good. We all have different expectations and requirements. I sold one of my Dick's Picks to a Dead Head in the bakery at the local Whole Foods. He goes to every concert he can and loves the dead. The Dick's Picks I sold him I didn't enjoy at all and sounded like a defective cassette recording but the other day he was smiling and said, "I love it!" and I believe him.

I will listen to this and enjoy the Music.


The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
iRiver H140/120gb/iBasso D10/Monica II Dac, modified Woo 6/Ultrasone Ed. 9/JH13 Pro IEM's

see images at: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Loser on disc one is good. ., posted on November 6, 2009 at 19:17:42
John PA
Audiophile

Posts: 2858
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Joined: August 27, 2000
 I enjoy the guitar work.


The Elaborate DAC=Johnny's Balloon Meshplate 27 Balanced Preamp=Balanced Six Pacs=Newform Research 645
iRiver H140/120gb/iBasso D10/Monica II Dac, modified Woo 6/Ultrasone Ed. 9/JH13 Pro IEM's

see images at: www.pbase.com/jamato8
Yes, it stands out, posted on November 6, 2009 at 19:38:27
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 35665
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003

on my end as well....I got closing of Winterland today. since I now have a total of 24 new Dead discs in all these new to me sets I had to take a break!!
Been enjoying the heck out of this today/tonite again.
http://routes61and49.com/index.php?go=home

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