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Does the golden cuboid equation come into play when the ceiling is vaulted

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Posted on August 9, 2009 at 19:09:46
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 11008
Joined: March 12, 2001
Contributor
  Since: August 27, 2009
 Wow. Didn't know this asylum existed. Just in time

OK, so Wifey has given me the OK to build a listening room. I'm planning on putting a vaulted ceiling. In doing research I have found the golden cuboid equation which seems to give dictate to the best room size proportions. However I have not found anything concerning vaulted ceilings effect. However I have just been told that vaulted ceilings suck also. I must say that my LR which is the current room sounds pretty good to me but maybe there is better. I don't know and am not especially tied to the vaulted clg design. Its just that in the past some in the business have said that I have an ideal room when I have described it to industry professionals I was told that it was an ideal setup. Then too, I have 12 ft behind my LR which is open to a Dining room but I was assuming the vaulted clg was good also.
So should I still stay with the golden cuboid proportions on the size? or can I deviate? And should I drop the vaulted clg?
Ive also heard that I should not build a room where length and width have the same multiples. ie 15 x 20 (5 being the multiple) Anything else I'm missing?


I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
RE: Does the golden cuboid equation come into play when the ceiling is vaulted, posted on August 10, 2009 at 13:47:14
Ethan Winer
Manufacturer

Posts: 1554
Location: New Milford, CT USA
Joined: December 3, 2003
 Just to add to David's always-good advice, there is nothing wrong with a vaulted ceiling. It can even be an advantage, for example it adds more total volume (cubic feet) in the room.

--Ethan

RE: Does the golden cuboid equation come into play when the ceiling is vaulted, posted on August 10, 2009 at 20:23:13
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 11008
Joined: March 12, 2001
Contributor
  Since: August 27, 2009
 Thanks for your input ethan. I asked about vaulted/cathedral clg because I had posed this question on another asylum and was told by a manufacturer that vaulted ceilings suck.
I have a vaulted clg in my present room and it sounds very good to my ears. I was trying to get the overall thought concerning it
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
RE: Does the golden cuboid equation come into play when the ceiling is vaulted, posted on August 11, 2009 at 10:46:45
Ethan Winer
Manufacturer

Posts: 1554
Location: New Milford, CT USA
Joined: December 3, 2003
 What "manufacturer" told you vaulted ceilings are bad?

RE: Does the golden cuboid equation come into play when the ceiling is vaulted, posted on August 12, 2009 at 07:30:04
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 11008
Joined: March 12, 2001
Contributor
  Since: August 27, 2009
 Charles Hanson over on General
I asked over there before I came here. I didn't know this asylum existed til I posted it there.
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails
RE: Does the golden cuboid equation come into play when the ceiling is vaulted, posted on August 12, 2009 at 12:07:01
Ethan Winer
Manufacturer

Posts: 1554
Location: New Milford, CT USA
Joined: December 3, 2003
 I found that thread there. There's so much outright bad advice I wouldn't even know where to start. So I didn't bother. Regardless, the ceiling I saw in your photo looks great, so don't worry about problems due to the ceiling.

--Ethan

RE: Does the golden cuboid equation come into play when the ceiling is vaulted, posted on August 9, 2009 at 22:13:28
David Aiken
Audiophile

Posts: 5109
Location: Brisbane
Joined: September 25, 1999
 There are many sets of room proportions which are regarded as providing a good listening room but whether any of them, including the golden rule, can be said to give the "best" result is extremely arguable. In a room the size of a normal, or even a larger than normal, listening room you are still dealing with what is basically a "small room" as far as acoustics are concerned and there are many other factors such as building materials and their reflectivity/absorption and even their ability to flex under sound pressure which are going to impact as heavily, not to mention where you place the speakers and listening position and how you furnish the room.

Getting the room proportions right will also not eliminate problems from room modes or standing waves as they are also called. Big rooms, and in acoustical terms that means spaces like a concert hall, certainly have definite advantages over small rooms but even carefully planned big rooms with good proportions do not come problem free. I wouldn't obsess about getting a room with specific proportions. I'd concentrate more on a room that's large enough to comfortably accommodate you and your system, plus whatever number of visitors you think is reasonable to comfortably accommodate, and simply ensure that the proportions work well with the way you want to set the room up. I think you do need to consider whether you want to listen in the near field or from a location further away from the speakers than that because if you listen in the near field you may well want to consider placing the speakers along the long wall rather than the short wall and that will impact on the room dimensions in several ways. You also need to consider any recommendations your speakers' manufacturer makes for how far your speakers should be placed from the walls since that also is going to have implications for room size. I think both of those factors are just as important, or even more important, than satisfying any theoretically ideal set of proportions.

I'd suggest you read a book like Everest's "Master Handbook of Acoustics" for a good overview of the principles of room acoustics and a lot of information about things like room proportions and the effects of various building materials on the sound you get in the room. Another good book is Toole's "Sound Reproduction" which takes a very different approach to the topic but comes to surprisingly similar recommendations on how to treat a room to those you'll find in Everest's book. The 2 books are complementary to each other in many ways but if you need or want to limit yourself to only 1 book, then go for Everest because he has a lot of discussion about various aspects of building recording studios and listening rooms. The time you spend reading such a book and the cost of the book will be repaid many times over in the planning and construction of a room.



David Aiken
RE: Does the golden cuboid equation come into play when the ceiling is vaulted, posted on August 10, 2009 at 03:57:29
artemus
Audiophile

Posts: 11008
Joined: March 12, 2001
Contributor
  Since: August 27, 2009
 Thanks David. My present listening room is 15 x 10 w/ a 12 DR open to the back. It has a vaulted clg ans at this point, my system sounds very good. However it is our living room and my wife would like to have it back

My new room will be an addition on the existing house wherein I am locked into one dimension of 22'. IOW's that is as large as I can go. I'd like to keep my room as large as it is now and maybe just a little larger. I'm familiar with the idea of stiffness in wall and have some idea of room treatments ie first reflection etc, Don't get me wrong. I know a little about these things which means I know enough to be ignorant. Thus my questioning. Im in the planning stage now but will probably start within the month. I am a building contractor so i will be doing the work. I have about 35-40 yrs of hands on experience so I pretty much understand the building process. And I've hung around AA and Agon for about 8-9 yrs also However i will need to sharpen my skills on the acoustical aspects of putting the room together plus electrical considerations.
I thank you for your response and recomendations
I only use my gun whenever kindness fails

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