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Discussing cables - could this energy be better spent?

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Posted on September 30, 2009 at 21:43:49
Donald North
Manufacturer

Posts: 910
Joined: February 8, 2001
 I see countless threads discussing cables. Can these man hours and human energy be better spent on other areas of audio which have much greater influence on sound quality? For example:

1. Petition the record companies in a concerted effort to end the loudness war and release albums with more dynamic range? Compression sucks.

2. For those like myself who buy new vinyl releases, petition the record labels and pressing companies to improve the quality of their albums. I've purchased some in recent years where the right channel on the first 2 tracks on a side are noisy due to poor flow of the plastic in the forming/stamping process. Where is the quality control and inspection?

Feel free to add to this list and let's make a plan.

Donald North

RE: Discussing cables - could this energy be better spent?, posted on October 2, 2009 at 07:31:00
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 22046
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 "1. Petition the record companies in a concerted effort to end the loudness war and release albums with more dynamic range? Compression sucks."

I think half the problem is the process for producing recordings has made such ill very difficult to eradicate...... I think a lot of people in today's recording industry really have no clue that what they're doing is killing sound quality. There really needs to be alternative industry for producing CDs and digital recording. (CD-less digital doesn't seem to be the real solution. Mainly because I think done well, CD playback still cannot be matched by PC-based playback.)

"2. For those like myself who buy new vinyl releases, petition the record labels and pressing companies to improve the quality of their albums. I've purchased some in recent years where the right channel on the first 2 tracks on a side are noisy due to poor flow of the plastic in the forming/stamping process. Where is the quality control and inspection?"

This might also be a lost art...... I also think in today's world, too many people have become desensitized to recording quality. Many people today have not been exposed to superlative audio playback, and hence don't appreciate what going the extra mile for quality production might bring forth.

I personally think recordings will never be the same as long as products like Pro Tools and Antares Auto-Tune are utilized in the production. These are widely-accepted standards in the recording industry, but IMO a terminal cancer for those who long for the return of true high-performance audio playback.

I agree that if recordings remain a sonic compromise, cables in audio playback don't really gain much under such circumstance. But cables will be essential because great recordings *do* exist, and hence getting every ounce of performance possible is still relevant. Even if the recordings themselves that bring forth such performance happen to be dated.


Yes, but..., posted on October 2, 2009 at 06:57:11
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 2529
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
 ...even though discussing cables is likely bootless, using ones that work well in your system isn't. And spending time to figure that out is far more likely to improve the listening experience than begging producers to change their ways. At least it's under your control. The producers that care about sound already produce good sounding recordings.

As to record quality, it went to hell in general in the mid '70s. It got so bad that I didn't buy music for years (except for 'audiophile' records) and only started again when CD's became available. But that's history, nowadays no producer who aims for maximum fidelity would choose LP records as their distribution medium because there are now far better ones available.

Rick

Listeners who care about sound quality . . ., posted on October 1, 2009 at 09:39:57
caspian@peak.org
Audiophile

Posts: 386
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 12, 2008
 . . . make up such a tiny percentage of the music buying public, as to constitute barely a blip on the radar of the major labels.

Small independent labels are likely to be more responsive, but many of them -- especially the "audiophile" labels -- are already far more conscientious than the majors about the sonics of their releases.

Cable fetishists tend to be people who already have very good systems, and are trying to extract the last iota of performance (imaginary or not) from their gear. They are probably, in many cases, the same people who listen mostly to "audiophile" recordings, and hence are not that concerned with the ubiquitous badness of major label commercial recordings. So their obsession with minutiae will continue unabated.

Please note that I am NOT dismissing out of hand the possible sonic effects of cables. ALL cables exhibit series resistance, parallel capacitance, and series self-inductance, along with other electrical properties (skin effect, etc.) which really only operate in the megahertz range, or over runs of many miles. Some "exotic" speaker wires are so inductive as to audibly roll off the higher frequencies when connected to an actual speaker load. Some in the past (Monster, IIRC) have been so capacitive as to distress weaker amplifiers, particularly when connected to highly capacitive electrostatic speakers. Inadequately shielded interconnects (and possibly power cords) can function as antennas, picking up airborne RFI and EMI garbage and contaminating the audio signal. These effects are real, and measurable. A "purist" would regard such cables as inherently defective, but some "cultists" like to use them as expensive tone controls. I don't see this phenomenon abating any time soon.

You're probably right, in the sense that "petitioning" (normally pretty ineffective)..., posted on October 1, 2009 at 08:29:57
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 ... would still be more effective than cable debate.

But where's fun in that?

Besides, music I listen to is apotheosis of compression by definition, with very limited dynamic range (and not just because of loudness wars), so my personal gains would be negligible.

Well, when you think outside the box..., posted on October 1, 2009 at 04:50:40
kerr
Audiophile

Posts: 3695
Location: Central Indiana
Joined: November 10, 2003
 ...and please accept my apologies for my trite comment in the subject box :)... the cable debate is about more than cables. It's about reality vs fantasy. It's about what is and what isn't. It's much bigger than just cables.

That said, your challenge is well taken, and would certainly be a more sensible approach to audio, as it would de-polarize the two sides to some degree.

Regarding the loudness wars, that hasn't hit the jazz and classical market too much yet that I've noticed. But I'm told it's coming and when I've heard it on rock CD's, it's very annoying. I'm in. I don't buy too much vinyl anymore, aside from used ones.
RE: Discussing cables - could this energy be better spent?, posted on September 30, 2009 at 23:56:05
Ugly
Audiophile

Posts: 1420
Location: Des Moines, WA
Joined: August 22, 2006
 Cables is a fun subject but you raise good points too.

1. I suspect this has been brought up already at the board meetings. The bean counters rule and say compression sells. There are a few notable exceptions where radio edits and hifi edits are created where we can vote with our dollars but I suspect those of us who care about this only supply a tiny minority of the buying dollars. In other words it's not us they are trying to impress.

2. Return the low quality items to the place of purchase insisting on a refund or a trade in for a non broken equivalent. As individuals complaining we likely will not be heard but if a company who is getting these returns, who also has clout as a large supplier weilding mega bucks, starts complaining to the manufacturers of these shoddy goods about all the returns then you can bet there will be action.

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