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small scale speaker management - future almost here but not quite?

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Posted on November 22, 2011 at 11:05:22
BofService
Audiophile

Posts: 553
Location: Atlanta
Joined: February 28, 2003
 Or maybe it is here but costs too much? My apologies in advance, as I am somewhat new to pro sound and could easily be misunderstanding something, or have missed a prior discussion...

My son DJs dances and we are trying to get a better system for him together. Source is a laptop PC which is by far the norm in the DJ biz. Output uses two commercial amps, a pair of subs and a pair of EV tops. Typical venue with 50-100 people. He specializes in electro-house and dubstep.

It is between the source and the output where the problem lies. This realm was historically handled by discreet EQs, crossovers and limiters (and whatever other processing devices one cared to use) one device daisy chained to the next. These days there are still analog options, but many products have moved to the digital domain where well implemented software can do all those things cleanly with low noise, all functions performed by a single "speaker management" device, with minimal introduction of hum/grounding problems, etc. These devices hold a lot of promise for the small to midrange sound system, improving performance and reducing the size and weight of the rack.

Except not quite. Granted, I have not looked at the products that sell for over $1,000 because they are not an option. But what I am surprised to find is that the inexpensive options out there all have a significant shortcoming. Namely, they do not natively interface with a PC. All laptops come these days with USB ports. Macbook pros also come with firewire, but very few Windows PCs support firewire any more. There are no laptops I am aware of that output AES/EBU format (similar to S/PDIF).

Of the moderately priced speaker management systems, a few support digital input via AES/EBU, but I am not aware of any that offer a USB interface for the program data. This means an outboard sound card must be purchased and cabled up between the PC and the speaker management device, adding to complication, and providing a new opportunity for incompatibility and failure (plus the bulk and cords, etc). One would think that Behringer, DBX, BBE, Ashly, Peavey, or somebody would add a USB port (sound card function) to their device.

Is anyone aware of a "speaker management" device with a built in USB interface for program input? I believe there is one out there that supports a USB connection, but it is for the user interface not the program data. How about new systems in the pipeline to be released soon?

Thanks,

Gary


 

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RE: small scale speaker management - future almost here but not quite?, posted on November 22, 2011 at 20:52:10
bassbinotoko
Audiophile

Posts: 426
Location: Vancouver Island
Joined: January 27, 2009
 I think it's better to use a USB or PC Card sound device on the laptop, and feed the processor over S/PDIF, preferably optical. Isolating the laptop from the sound gear seems like a good idea.

Also, there's a bunch of pretty good reasons to have a mixer in there... mic input for announcements or MCs, booth monitor output, phono and line inputs for other DJs or to hook up a live PA. Master volume control... what happens if your laptop decides to put out Dolby Digital over S/PDIF. That won't sound nice at full volume.

Perhaps the real need is a mixer with USB input as well as S/PDIF. I'm pretty sure those exist. Or a processor that incorporates mixer functions that can be controlled from the laptop or a wired remote console.

 

RE: small scale speaker management - future almost here but not quite?, posted on November 23, 2011 at 16:03:13
Pro Sound Guy


 
Ok

First off you need this
Copy and paste link
There is an Optical/spdif inputs on it ok?

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx

The next link below is your interface for like 30.00

You can get both of them from Musicians Friend no tax and no shipping charge

 

RE: small scale speaker management - future almost here but not quite?, posted on November 28, 2011 at 06:43:32
BofService
Audiophile

Posts: 553
Location: Atlanta
Joined: February 28, 2003
 Thanks for the comments.

So you recommend the Behringer products for field production work? I've read (on the internet...) that the construction quality of their equipment can be dicey. My own experience with a Behringer USB DJ controller was that it was buggy and unreliable from the software perspective, and that their support was poor.

BTW, the DCX2496 model seems to have most or all of the features of the DEQ version plus adds crossover features. Frankly, if I could trust it to be reliable I would buy one, plus an external sound card with optical out. What I don't understand is why Behringer doesn't offer it with the sound card function built in.

I gather Peavey has a similar model with many of the same functions, but it costs a couple hundred bucks more. Still no USB support though.

Does anybody know what BBE or DBX have in the works? Both of theses companies have provided production ready products to this market in the past.

 

RE: small scale speaker management - future almost here but not quite?, posted on November 29, 2011 at 07:37:43
Pro Sound Guy


 
Just purchase it with a waranty plan for a few bucks more

For the price this unit will work fine for a DJ setup

You can certainly get better but you are going to have to put out way more ching then you probably want to invest in this setup

 

RE: small scale speaker management - future almost here but not quite?, posted on November 30, 2011 at 17:26:12
BofService
Audiophile

Posts: 553
Location: Atlanta
Joined: February 28, 2003
 Been there, not worth the hassle. All those hours of struggling with a piece of gear that is flaking out. Then hassle with the warranty repair, shipping, being without equipment... That is a mistake not worthy of repeating.

Thanks for your thoughts though.
Gary

 

RE: small scale speaker management - future almost here but not quite?, posted on December 27, 2011 at 15:46:05
WR Sugar
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: Mountain West
Joined: December 27, 2011
 Typically, outboard sound cards just sound a lot better. Add in the fact that most are tiny and can be velcro-ed to the inside of the rack, or wherever, and it's a practical solution. Plus you can have dual/multiple assignable outs - one for the headphone/cue and one for the main mix. The M-Audio cards are a terrific value.

Is he using a DJ controller? Most controllers have decent sound cards built in as well. USB into the device and away you go.

To start over would be fun. I do this:
PC/MAC + iPOD
Midi DJ Controller with sufficient inputs and effects.
dBX Driverack PA+ (and get a measurement mic - it auto calibrates very easily)
AMP 1 tops
AMP 2 subs (toroidal-style unit)
DMX controller

Pop it all in a new SKB molded rack with a pop up laptop tray and play panty-dropper records til last call.

 

RE: small scale speaker management - future almost here but not quite?, posted on December 27, 2011 at 19:34:03
BofService
Audiophile

Posts: 553
Location: Atlanta
Joined: February 28, 2003
 Hey WR. Your plan sounds great, though it is perhaps more difficult to execute than it is to describe...

And that is my point. In striking a balance between flexibility and reliability, I'm tending toward a completely integrated solution. That way there are no "integration" issues, which seem to proliferate in the digital realm. Right now external sound cards sound better, but that circuit could easily be integrated into the Driverack, DCX2496, etc. Realistically, anything that can be cabled together could just as well be incorporated into a single device. This approach reduces duplicated power supplies, thus reducing overall cost and power consumption. It also reduces the likely hood of ground/hum problems, reduces cabling cost, and provides the opportunity for a lower noise floor. Finally, it improves reliability by eliminating cable connections and reducing the number of failure points.

OTOH, if one function/feature fails your whole rig could go down, and you might have to send it to the manufacturer to get it fixed.

I don't have enough real experience to know what the right combination of equipment is, but it seems like the DCX processor should do the sound card function too.

Gary

 

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