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Would you buy anything made by a company that offers this in their FAQ:...

129.33.19.254
Posted on October 30, 2009 at 13:11:41
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 "...in the real world everyone uses Toslink. It’s the International Standard for a digital audio interface. USB requires that the computer be within three metres, making a noise and ruining the look of a listening room. Who wants that?
From the outset S/PDIF was designed as a high performance digital audio interface and has been universally accepted as such. It is especially beneficial that there is no electrical connection between the source and DAC. Who wants to risk connecting a noisy computer to his prized DAC?"
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"In truth all DACs are within spitting distance of each other although ours might be slightly ahead at the moment. Jitter isn't an issue though we use SRC to eliminate it completely."
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"These days a 4 pence Op Amp makes a perfect preamp and for a pound you get one that's even better, though you won't hear it. Both are a thousand times better than tubes."
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Another option for computer speakers, posted on October 31, 2009 at 12:02:38
Panelhead
Audiophile

Posts: 434
Location: Houston
Joined: September 26, 2000
 I listened to the active speakers from DSPeakers at RMAF. Active two ways. The Dsp room correction and a calibrated mic.
The amp modules may be overdriver at high volumes, they are getting -6dB at 30 Hz from a 6 1/2 in a 11 inch sealed box. If I did not already have several active two way and subs I would have purchased a pair at the show. Liked them better than anything else I heard. Gradients were in the same room.
Good news is they are naked down to under two grand. Even without the auto room correction this would be a good price.
The woofers are servo controled also. That must be how they are getting such lowend whach out of them.
Listened to them with the room correction turned off and they sounded okay. Turned back on the the sonics were 10x better. These are awesome. They were a bargain at 3500.00. At 942.00 each it should be illegal.

George

I Tell You What, posted on October 30, 2009 at 19:40:00
Dynaudio_Rules
Audiophile

Posts: 5606
Location: Georgia
Joined: April 1, 2005
 The makers of some products over zealousness has probably lost them more business than it has gained them...

In the end, products IF THEY ARE GOOD will sell themselves.



Scrutiny Strengthens The Truth and Breaks Down Lies 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
If I could afford it...., posted on October 30, 2009 at 17:30:48
bassbinotoko
Audiophile

Posts: 89
Location: Vancouver Island
Joined: January 27, 2009
 Honesty in audio is refreshing.

If you need to be reminded that human beings are endlessly gullible and easily taken in by mumbo-jumbo, watch some international news. Or ask a pharmacist to explain the expensive "cold remedies" that have no (zip, zero, nada) active ingredients.

Honesty in audio IS refreshing - that's why I'd stay away from companies like this one., posted on October 30, 2009 at 18:07:37
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 Dishonesty, on the other hand (as in this case), is pretty disgusting.

RE: Would you buy anything made by a company that offers this in their FAQ:..., posted on October 30, 2009 at 14:59:28
Squonk
Audiophile

Posts: 1682
Location: Indianapolis
Joined: August 17, 2005
 LMAO! Yes, you certainly are right. That is some silly BS. However, I would still check them out. I really dig the concept and the price is right. Hell, you get speakers, DAC, & amps for $2000.00. Not bad. If their performance was at least ok, would be an easy step for young beginners.
Photobucket
BTW, add another $1400 for subwoofer - without it, you get awesome -6dB at 60 Hz "bass extension"., posted on October 31, 2009 at 05:04:04
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 You'd probably want subwoofer with many passive 2-way monitors, too - but, some of them can do better than -6dB at 60 Hz.

To me, the idea is great on the surface only - it restricts you enormously in future upgrades.

Possible. However, I'd still explore something like..., posted on October 30, 2009 at 15:13:43
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 ... Peachtree Nova ($1200) plus 2-way monitors and pair of cables. Just saying...

Don't forget, posted on October 30, 2009 at 15:29:19
Squonk
Audiophile

Posts: 1682
Location: Indianapolis
Joined: August 17, 2005
 the amp &/or possibly a preamp. Unless you go with active speakers. Holy crap, have you priced most active speakers these days? If/when my Active 40s go kaput, I'm screwed. Anyway, either way, you're still talking a lot more money than the ADMs. I'm not trying to sell the ADMs, but, I think ideas like this can launch young enthusiasts into our hobby.
Photobucket
Peachtree Nova is integrated amp with built-in ESS Sabre DAC., posted on October 30, 2009 at 15:31:00
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 So, speakers and cables only.

Peachtree is competitive on snake oil, posted on October 30, 2009 at 17:07:17
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 704
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
 "Most digital music is etched and hard. Mp3 files are almost unlistenable and through your computers sound card, even wav files are not much better. However, if you take these files, transfer them digitally to an on board digital to analog converter, run that signal through a "tube" preamp and power it with a high-current amplifier, the results are amazing! This is what you can do with a Peachtree Audio with a simple one cable hook-up.

Now all the time, effort and money you've spent ripping CD's and downloading music is rewarded with truly incredible sound. Although our company is a big believer in lossless encoding, even compressed MP3 files sound very close to the original CD when played through our "New Millennium" integrated amplifiers."

Whatever ails you, our vacuum tube will fix it. Just looking at the tube through the little window in the front panel will make everything sound better.

Bill
Yeah, that's not bad, too - but I find it less offensive., posted on October 30, 2009 at 19:47:45
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 That marketing piece looks like it was written for somewhat retarded beginners; the one from AVI is obviously a vehicle for author's biases.

RE: Peachtree Nova is integrated amp with built-in ESS Sabre DAC., posted on October 30, 2009 at 15:31:49
Squonk
Audiophile

Posts: 1682
Location: Indianapolis
Joined: August 17, 2005
 Ahhhh, ok, my mistake.
Photobucket
RE: Would you buy anything made by a company that offers this in their FAQ:..., posted on October 30, 2009 at 13:35:39
toasties
Audiophile

Posts: 26
Joined: September 19, 2009
 Having heard the ADM9s I can happily say I would purchase them if my finances restricted me to their price range. For the price, they really are a remarkable piece of kit.

Unfortunately, marketing BS is part of the game. If we ruled out gear based upon the marketing talk of the manufacturers website the list of potential gear would be extremely short. The only way to pick gear is to listen to it.

Personally, I can't help but think that the problem with AVIs particular flavour of marketing BS is that it questions audiophile preconceptions rather than reinforcing them.
RE: Would you buy anything made by a company that offers this in their FAQ:..., posted on October 30, 2009 at 18:22:34
Phelonious Ponk
Audiophile

Posts: 558
Location: NC
Joined: September 3, 2007
 "Personally, I can't help but think that the problem with AVIs particular flavour of marketing BS is that it questions audiophile preconceptions rather than reinforcing them."

-- Or perhaps it is not BS, and strips audiophile misconceptions bare. Really, the only thing there that is BS is the complete elimination of jitter. They needed to add "for all practical purposes" to keep it honest.

P

BTW, "T0M" (or is it TiM) - it was very brave of you..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 13:03:15
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 ... to post sexually-themed personal attack against me, under fake moniker, from proxy IP.

Keep up good work.

RE: BTW, "T0M" (or is it TiM) - it was very brave of you..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 13:21:29
Phelonious Ponk
Audiophile

Posts: 558
Location: NC
Joined: September 3, 2007
 Tim. And it wasn't me, peaches. I'm already here under a handle, as you've pointed out. No need to create a second to take a shot at a serial poo-slinger such as yourself. Besides, I'm sure I'm nowhere near the top of the list of people you've annoyed and offended.

Pity I don't have the courage to post openly as you do. By the way, is that Mr. Carcass, or Carc Ass?

P

Never hurts to check... No way to be sure, you know., posted on October 31, 2009 at 14:21:08
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 Who's "poo-slinger"? I've no idea who you're talking about. I did not INITIATE personal attacks against you, or anyone else - I only sometimes respond to such. As far as gear goes - we're here to discuss it, and it's not my fault that it's tough for you, or somebody else, to take different opinion.

And it's Mr. Carcass93 to you.

Perhaps it is, and doesn't strip anything bare -, posted on October 30, 2009 at 20:13:37
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 - except for that company's biases, and obvious lack of either honesty or knowledge.

But what do I know - the product must be good, after all its DAC is indistinguishable from the most perfect DAC in existence, Benchmark DAC1.

Right?

Disagree on several points., posted on October 30, 2009 at 13:59:42
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 1. "Unfortunately, marketing BS is part of the game."

No - MARKETING is part of the game, marketing BS is not, or should not be, at least. In PS Audio newsletter, that was discussed in deleted thread, there was an example of marketing without too much of BS.

2. "The only way to pick gear is to listen to it."

Ideally, yes. Practically, I sometimes buy gear (used, online), listen to it, and get rid of it if I don't like what I hear, or when I have something better. To buy something unheard, you have to be somewhat ENCOURAGED to do so - and the quotes in my original post would DISCOURAGE me personally.

3. "problem with AVIs particular flavour of marketing BS is that it questions audiophile preconceptions rather than reinforcing them."

No offense, but your usage of an expression "audiophile preconceptions" tells me that you're not free from "anti-audiophile preconceptions". To me, those pieces of marketing BS attempt to challenge knowledge, experience with quality gear, and even common sense - not preconceptions. Or, to put it differently, it caters to lack of knowledge, experience, and common sense.
The legal term is 'puffing'..., posted on October 30, 2009 at 17:24:34
Chris Garrett
Bored Member

Posts: 12867
Location: Miami, Florida
Joined: October 9, 1999
Contributor
  Since: June 19, 2000
 "we make the best hamburger in the world".

Chris

RE: Disagree on several points., posted on October 30, 2009 at 14:56:26
toasties
Audiophile

Posts: 26
Joined: September 19, 2009
 "No - MARKETING is part of the game, marketing BS is not, or should not be, at least. In PS Audio newsletter, that was discussed in deleted thread, there was an example of marketing without too much of BS."

And yet looking at the PS audio site I see plenty of similar marketing talk. Look at their description of the way the network bridge and the digital lens reduce jitter, apparently the only network transport/DAC that does it properly, that sets off my BS-ometer. But it's their website and I take it as a given that they will hype up their own product so it's no biggie.

The irony is, I own a cullen modded digital link and love it. Once the perfectwave is fully functional I might take a gander at that too.

Don't misunderstand, some websites aren't full of marketing BS, but the ones that aren't are the exception to the rule in my experience.

"Ideally, yes. Practically, I sometimes buy gear (used, online), listen to it, and get rid of it if I don't like what I hear, or when I have something better. To buy something unheard, you have to be somewhat ENCOURAGED to do so - and the quotes in my original post would DISCOURAGE me personally."

You would, I wouldn't. I tend to go more from reports of people who have listened to the gear. That's why forums like this are so useful. Manufacturers websites are useful for specs but not much else imo.

"No offense, but your usage of an expression "audiophile preconceptions" tells me that you're not free from "anti-audiophile preconceptions". To me, those pieces of marketing BS attempt to challenge knowledge, experience with quality gear, and even common sense - not preconceptions. Or, to put it differently, it caters to lack of knowledge, experience, and common sense."

We all have preconceptions. IMO, in some areas the audiophiles/subjectivists have it right, in some areas the anti-audiophiles/objectivists have it right. I wouldn't say I'm an extreme member of either camp. My point was that certain manufacturers get a free ride with their marketing talk as long as it appeals to the audiophile mindset. That wouldn't put me off their product because they may be good.

Like I said, I've heard the ADM9s and they are a quality product. Their marketing patter or forum behaviour doesn't make much difference to me. To be honest, I recommended the ADMs to a friend a couple of weeks ago. He's not an audiophile, and didn't want to spend the earth, but wanted a good system. The ADMs were a very obvious choice.
RE: Would you buy anything made by a company that offers this in their FAQ:..., posted on October 30, 2009 at 13:15:47
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 506
Joined: March 31, 2008
 Sounds like Ashley James (AVI) to me.
The Well Tempered Computer
It does... and it is. So, would you?, posted on October 30, 2009 at 13:19:24
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 I wouldn't - and think that average poster on this forum should have his BS meter jump over redline when seeing something like this...

RE: It does... and it is. So, would you?, posted on October 30, 2009 at 13:50:03
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 506
Joined: March 31, 2008
 You have the product and you have the character.
James hobby’s are restoring old cars and bashing high end.
His style is probably acceptable in Britain.

The AVI ADM9.1 are active speakers, 1 amp per speaker, active crossover, top of the line Wolfson DAC. Not a bad concept. In fact, this is what is common in the pro world.
You won’t find many companies targeting home audio with this concept.

The problem is that at one hand his arguments do make sense.
There are opamps with excellent spec’s, most DAC use the same chip set. Active crossovers do have an advantage, etc
But all this arguments are made for one sake: buy an AVI.
If tomorrow he realizes that he missed the USB audio boat, he will argue that nothing is as convenient as having your computer with its excellent interface in your listening room.
Of course we won’t nag him that USB is not limited to 3 m (USB1) but to 5.
He is an Apple guy, you know.

A highly amusing or very irritating source on many a forum as any topic is turned into sales talk.
Well maybe not so many, he probably is record holder ‘IP banned’ on audio forums.

The Well Tempered Computer
RE: It does... and it is. So, would you?, posted on October 30, 2009 at 18:39:09
Phelonious Ponk
Audiophile

Posts: 558
Location: NC
Joined: September 3, 2007
 There is no doubt that Ashley is passionate about his company's approach and can be pretty self-promotional. I'm so glad we don't have anyone like that hanging around the Asylum :).

Thing is, in the midst of all the bluster, he's a lot more right than he is wrong.

P

RE: It does... and it is. So, would you?, posted on October 31, 2009 at 01:22:04
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 4115
Joined: June 1, 2002
 There are some

RE: It does... and it is. So, would you?, posted on October 30, 2009 at 14:15:05
cfmsp
Audiophile

Posts: 353
Joined: October 21, 2006
"A highly amusing or very irritating source on many a forum as any topic is turned into sales talk."

Agreed, Roseval,


I (don't) miss all the fun when Ashley was at CA.

clay

PS, It was a loss when you left, however.

RE: It does... and it is. So, would you?, posted on November 1, 2009 at 13:43:34
Phelonious Ponk
Audiophile

Posts: 558
Location: NC
Joined: September 3, 2007
 I don't imagine his style or philosophy would fare well in that hotbed of audiophile nervosa.

P

RE: It does... and it is. So, would you?, posted on October 30, 2009 at 15:15:59
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 506
Joined: March 31, 2008
 >>It was a loss when you left, however.<<
Thanks cfmsp for these kind words.
I left the moment I found out that the owner, Chris Connaker, was editing my posts without any notification.

The Well Tempered Computer
RE: It does... and it is. So, would you?, posted on October 30, 2009 at 14:30:40
Roseval
Audiophile

Posts: 506
Joined: March 31, 2008
 >>It was a loss when you left, however.<<
Thanks cfmsp for these kind words.
I left the moment I found out that the owner, Chris Connaker, was editing my posts without any notification.

The Well Tempered Computer

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