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Let the grenade throwing begin...

209.97.233.61
Posted on February 5, 2009 at 08:28:55
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 Earlier there were several questions about the forthcoming Ayre USB DAC that uses Wavelength's "asynchronous" USB transfer mode. We have finally posted the promised white paper with more information on our website. Look under the "Literature" section.

This is not meant to be an "advertisement". The white paper is meant to be a look at the issues involved with getting the data off your computer and over to your hi-fi.

I've tried to present the various methods fairly, but obviously have an opinion as to what methods work best. I'm glad to answer any questions. And if you guys think this post is inappropriate, please don't post a reply. Instead, just make a *separate* new post and I'll delete this one. Or the moderators can delete it. Thanks.

I'll put get into my bunker now....

 

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RE: In defense of Playback Designs, posted on February 7, 2009 at 22:59:50
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 Okie-dokie, Jonathan.

 

Thanks for the post, posted on February 8, 2009 at 02:10:53
Ralph NLD
 Just read it now after a week skiing. Looks like a very nice product. What a pity however to get this kind of emotional responses to a proper invitation. Appreciate your comments to this and other forums.

Ralph

 

Agreed..., posted on February 8, 2009 at 04:40:08
damage k
Audiophile

Posts: 587
Location: Kent. UK
Joined: March 31, 2006
 I have enjoyed reading the posts and responses, I particularly liked the fact that youself, Charles, are so enthused with your new product design and the fact that the ideas keep on coming. I would like to thank you on behalf of myself and other people who benefit from your input and sometimes very long responses to our sometimes trivial questions, but...
... some of the responders need to get out a bit more, they do appear to be a bit too fragile to be left alone in public. I know that it's a forum and I myself do like a healthy exchange of views but some do appear to take it all too personally. It's about a Hi Fi product, and as with any product, if you like it, either in concept, quality or even 'how it sounds',you may even buy it....or not.
It may be that I am biased as I do already own Ayre products, the fact that they work very well for me does make me gravitate toward any other products that you design. I am quite excited about this as I do use computer audio, and any other quality that can be squeezed out of the convenience aspect of having it all on one hard drive gets my thumbs up. At the moment I am on firewire as it did provide what I needed at the time but now I am looking to make a more permanent addition to my PC based system and feed to the main system.
This new DAC could fit the bill but it generates another problem for me... both my main sources are balanced and so is this DAC whilst my Pre only has the 2 balanced inputs so something would have to be unplugged, something has to give. How many sleepless nights is this going to give me.

Have fun,
K

 

RE: Ummm... Jonathan..., posted on February 8, 2009 at 09:06:35
???
 "It might be a good time to take a deep breath and restart your introduction from the beginning."

Way too late for that...

 

OK, posted on February 8, 2009 at 09:58:41
mls-stl
 Just letting you know what it looks like from out here. It's yours to do with as you wish.

 

RE: A bit of advice to you Charles..., posted on February 8, 2009 at 12:45:53
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 13629
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
 You posted a link to a page that made product claims which read like snake oil. Many of us would like to have DACs that totally reject jitter and produce sound that does not depend on the transport. Such a DAC would greatly simplify computer audio. Manufacturers have made claims of this sort before, but these have not stood the test of actual performance, according to reports I have seen or equipment that I have used.

By describing how your product works using unusual terminology your product takes on a decided "snake oil" tinge. I have no way of knowing what your product does. My best guess is that you are doing some form of asynchronous resampling. But the way the web page is written it is impossible to tell. If you wrote how your product worked and compared it to other approaches then we might continue to doubt your claims, but at least you wouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Your product may be good for all I know, but you definitely have a ways to go when it comes to marketing literature.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

thanks, but please add a switch, posted on February 8, 2009 at 14:34:48
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 One that turns the LED completely off (not like the ones that glow when they're supposedly turned off, either). I'd hate to resort to what I've done in the past: black electrical tape, clipping wires, unplugging ribbon cables, etc on some pretty expensive equipment. My involved listening is done in the dark. If I need a light source, I'll flip the switch on the wall. :-)

Why do some designers release equipment that lights up a room? Bob Carver: the analog meters came with headlights in his Carver years and his Sunfire products came with flashlights on the faceplates. Dan D'Agostino: red and blue LEDs abound, kind of like an airport runway to his products.

Please. Include a switch.

 

RE: thanks, but please add a switch, posted on February 8, 2009 at 15:33:35
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 Thanks for the request. I'll try and figure out if there is a way to include it that makes sense. (We don't want to add a remote control and IR receiver that would drive the retail price significantly. Besides, it would be odd to have a remote with only one button!).

 

toggle switch, posted on February 8, 2009 at 18:27:55
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 Perhaps a simple toggle switch would do it. Flip the switch, cut the power to the LED. I'm sure there are people who love the design of the blue LEDs. I'm one of those people who would like there to be a switch on all of my electronics that cuts the power to any light source. What gets me is that some companies actually have a "Display Off" feature on their remotes, but in OFF mode the display still glows a dim red. I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they have a different definition of the word "off", since not everyone agrees on what the definition of "is" is.

Anyway, thanks for the consideration. With some of the discussions in the past about listening in the dark vs dim lights vs fully lit room, I'm a bit surprised that this wasn't brought up sooner.

 

Charles I've got to agree with the rest of the group here you would need 192kHz capability., posted on February 8, 2009 at 18:52:31
Teresa
 I own a MAC Mini and it comes standard with the Intel High Definition Audio sound card 0x83847680 which does 192 kHz/32-bit quality for two channels, and 96 kHz/32-bit for up to eight channels.

As some mentioned Reference Recordings HRx's are 176.4kHz. I just did some comparisons between 96kHz and 192kHz on my MAC Mini yesterday and 192kHz is better in many key area's (see linked post). I also downloaded a 192kHz 32 Bit music file. So I think to future proof your DAC you many need not only the capability of 192kHz but 32 Bit as well.


Give me high resolution or remain silent,
Teresa

 

RE: toggle switch, posted on February 8, 2009 at 19:03:20
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 >> I'm a bit surprised that this wasn't brought up sooner. <<

Me, too! With all of the *new* technology in this beast, we completely overlooked a feature that we've had in all of our equipment for the last ten years...

For what it's worth, for us "Display Off" always leaves one blue LED lit so that you know that the unit is still powered and that nobody tripped over the power cord.

 

RE: Charles I've got to agree with the rest of the group here you would need 192kHz capability., posted on February 8, 2009 at 19:06:21
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 This is something that we continue to look at. The biggest obstacle at the present time is lack of driver support from Windows and Linux. (Mac OS X will support 192 kHz, and I believe up to 32 bits.)

We always offered updates for our products and as the technology changes I'm sure that we'll be able to offer updates for the USB DAC also.

 

that's completely understandable, posted on February 8, 2009 at 23:17:16
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 However, from the pics, it doesn't look like the QB-9 has an extra (non-display) LED to keep lit. I'm sure that'll be changed by production time. And nothing a 1/3" diameter or so piece of circular doubleply black electrical tape can't fix. :-)

By the way, I've been meaning to ask you this: who designed the "look" of the newest Ayre gear (KX-R preamp and MX-R mono amp)? They look more like art pieces than audio gear. The smooth lines and shape/form factor definitely says not a little time was spent on that part of the design. Very nice.

 

here's a picture and some video, posted on February 9, 2009 at 01:01:05
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4424
Joined: February 3, 2001
 CES 2009 notes from Computer Audiophile has both a picture of the QB-9 (high resolution, but kinda overkill) and QuickTime video of Ayre gear (you may have to wait a bit for the video to come up):

 

Old picture -- it's changed since then., posted on February 9, 2009 at 17:27:33
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001
 The unit is half-width -- 8-1/2" so that you can either use it with a desktop system or put two similar components side-by-side with your regular full-width kit.

But since the show we have lowered the height significantly and made the display window wider. It looks a lot better now. The only image currently available is on our "What's New" page -- just the link to the USB DAC white paper.

As far as the MX-R and KX-R, they were an amalgam of many different ideas from many different sources. One of the key features was the finish. If you have ever seen one in person, you will see that there are grooves (almost like record grooves!) that catch the light from almost any angle and direct some of it to you regardless of your position in the room. That finish was developed by the chassis supplier at our request.

 

just include the MAC mini in the package, posted on February 12, 2009 at 09:58:27
Paul-D
Audiophile

Posts: 285
Joined: September 29, 2000
 Hi Charles,

Just include the MAC mini in the package, it will increase the sales price of the DAC around 500USD, and that is peanuts in hi-end...

 

RE: Step-by-step, posted on February 14, 2009 at 14:51:25
sentinel90125
Audiophile

Posts: 96
Location: Virginia
Joined: August 24, 2005
 Charles,

I just wanted to thank you for posting these white papers. From a customer's perspective (I squarely fit into the 10% you mention above), I am very excited about the research you've conducted and can't wait to have my c-5xe upgraded. Not knowing too much about digital audio, the information you presented was extremely clear, concise and much appreciated!

Steve

 

RE: Old picture -- it's changed since then., posted on March 6, 2010 at 19:25:37
ggraff


 
Long time since we conversed. Congratulations on your new DAC, you have been getting plenty of good press on it. It looks like a work of art. I understand the clocking mechanism you are using for USB (at least in theory), but have you ever considered Firewire 800? FW has less latency resulting in less jitter to start with. Best of luck.

gjg

 

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