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cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO

41.183.0.21
Posted on May 5, 2008 at 12:31:58
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cPlay

The open source high-end audio player using ASIO

May 2008

cPlay delivers high quality audio playback using ASIO 2. Playback is achieved using any ASIO compatible soundcard. cPlay is a minimalist audio player using the latest high quality SRC resampler (Best Sinc SNR 145.68db or 121.33db) or SoX (VHQ or HQ). cPlay's design offers state-of-the-art ASIO-only playback and caters for touch screen users. Installation, setup and use is easy. cPlay is built in c/c++ and operates on Windows XP SP2 Professional (32 bit).

FEATURES

  1. Resampling is sourced from LibSampleRate (version 0.1.5) and SoX 14.2.0 under GNU GPL license. LibSampleRate is aka SRC (Secret Rabbit Code) and supersedes the version as used in foobar2000. Best Sinc converter now offers a SNR of 145.68db or 121.33db (versus 97db). SoX VHQ offers better than 170db SNR. Resampling is bypassed when input rate matches output.

  2. Supports Steinberg's excellent ASIO 2 and is backward compatible to prior ASIO versions (as required by ASIO drivers).

  3. Offers high quality 64 bit double precision digital volume control (in 0.5db steps). This can be bypassed.

  4. Playback is achieved through .cue, .wav or .flac files. cPlay loads entire .wav or .flac (decoded) into RAM before starting. Playback is done directly from cPlay's internal buffer. Cue playback requires .cue files as created by EAC (single or multi file standard).

  5. Ensures efficient CPU resource utilization allowing for low specification processors or high levels of upsampling. This means CPUs can be underclocked / undervolted.

  6. Supports up to 3 ASIO soundcards with each having up to 100 output channels.

  7. Advanced optimizations are applied (if available from ASIO driver) during playback.

  8. Best results achieved when using cMP (i.e. cMP²). This allows for low level Windows optimizations. Use cMP release 1.0 final or later as this allows for bypassing RAM load in cMP (set RAM Load in cMP Settings to No) otherwise wav file is RAM loaded twice. cPlay allows for both svchost and lsass to be suspended during playback thus reducing the Windows footprint. Only exception is EMU's ASIO driver which requires both (svchost and lsass) to be operational. Set cMP's Optimize setting to Critical.

  9. Full remote control is achieved with cMP: offering volume control, track navigation, next/previous and stop/eject via (wireless) mouse.

USER MANUAL

Visit cMP² website (http://www.cicsMemoryPlayer.com) for more details and setup.

Screen Shot




GETTING STARTED

Download cPlay's installer here (1.3MB). Installation and startup is straight forward.

If you don't have an ASIO compatible soundcard, use ASIO4ALL. Note that ASIO4ALL does not support channel mapping (use default) and rarely handles above 48k sample rate.

Your feedback will help guide cPlay's future development. Source code (4.1MB) is available via email.

 

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RE: Easy tweak ...sonic benefit of which is significant, posted on April 7, 2012 at 07:27:31
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I have never done it any other way and have described this way here many times. It is faster and better though to put the folder containing all the cue files referencing the data drive on the cmp drive. This way when cmp starts it loads much faster and Ryelands first reported that it sounds better this way than having the cues folder on the data drive, though it means updating the cues folder frequently as more albums are acquired. Keeping it on the data drive means it is up to date always as cues are created.

Also, Al Jordan's recursive cuesheet creator can be set to automatically create cues with absolute paths for your whole library in a separate cues folder--Steppe take note. You can leave the relative path cues in place with each album, if you want, or search the library for cue files and delete them all at once and use only the separated cues.

 

RE: Easy tweak ...sonic benefit of which is significant, posted on April 7, 2012 at 09:22:00
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Well maybe you were the 1st then. Kudos to you.

 

RE: Easy tweak ...sonic benefit of which is significant, posted on April 7, 2012 at 13:17:26
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 This tweak was originally identified by Ryelands . . .

Hmmmm. Not by this Ryelands, it wasn't. Not quite.

I've never advocated having all of a library's cuefiles in one folder though my original motivation for not doing so that was that I couldn't work with cMP's UI. I still can't but I now also think that browsing for data should not be performed by the music player or shell for "sound quality" reasons.

1. To clarify, by "absolute cuefile" I mean one whose text includes the full path to the target data (e.g. M:\Jazz\Duke Ellington\Duke Ellington - 1960 - Piano in the Background\01 - Duke Ellington - Happy go lucky Local.flac) and by "relative" I mean one that has the filename only. Obviously, the latter must sit in the same folder as its data;

2. As we all know, when "cMP" is selected in cPlay's settings dialogue, the player loses its browsing capability and is launched by clicking on a target cuefile in cMP's main window;

3. cMP sees cuefiles only; it does not load music data into RAM though it does load every cuefile in the "watched" folders selected in cMP's Folder > Add dialogue. The watched folders are scanned at boot time and when the "Refresh" button is hit. If there are many relative cuefiles, this can, as riboge notes, take several minutes. If the files are absolute and all in one location, it is significantly faster;

4. That this is how the two programs work is shown by cuefiles that "point" to data that are in fact missing. The error is recognised only when cPlay is launched, not before. It follows that cMP does not load music data or check cuefile integrity (there being no compelling reason why it should);

5. However cMP is configured, "watching" a large number of cuefiles eats up significant RAM, in my case (a medium-sized collection of a little over 6,000 albums), probably about 30 MB. Even for a small collection, it's unlikely to be less than an MB or two.

Given the heroic efforts of pioneer "slimmers" to reduce OS footprint, it seems to me worthwhile to see how this footprint might also be reduced. Ideally, cMP should load the target cuefile (typically < 10 KB) only;

6. The easiest way to do that is, it seems to me, to copy the target cuefile only to the one folder that cMP is configured to "watch", to use cMP's "Refresh" facility to recognise when the file is changed and to delete the file once play is finished. Obviously, the files have to be absolute but such are easily written with AJ's "CueFileCreator";

7. It's certainly easy (better, in my view) to work this way in a networked cMP setup without loss of SQ. I'm not sure that it's quite as simple on an isolated cMP2 box where Sonic Trappists have long since sacrificed File Explorer in pursuit of SQ (OK, OK, I'm one of them). If anyone's interested, I'll happily explain how I do it but, if no-one is (fair enough) I'll not bother.

Dave

 

RE: Easy tweak ...sonic benefit of which is significant, posted on April 7, 2012 at 15:48:58
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Tell, please.

Dying of suspense here.

Expecting your normal clever, lucid directions... don't disapoint!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

I Have a Similar One, posted on April 7, 2012 at 23:04:55
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 Thanks Serge.

I have a similar one of this for my music files connected via eSATA to the H55M UD2H mobo(Drive D:\). cMP is in another SSD(Drive C:\).

Drive D is now not detectable after files deletion and substitution.

I believe your cMP and music folders are on the same external drive. Is that correct?

Regards

 

Trappists want to know how, posted on April 7, 2012 at 23:32:16
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, please tell us.
Serge.

 

Yes, and, posted on April 7, 2012 at 23:42:25
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 I am planning to avoid esata. I have finally persuaded our local computer store to bring in several esata-to-sata cables and I am going to attach today this hdd to the onboard sata (blue socket), not to esata external terminal.
Serge.
Also, as I have a single hdd, the cmp case is very "empty" and is perfectly ventilated, and the hdd itself is the ms-dos boot device, which is necessary for it to be recognized by the registry.

 

The anomaly of the 16MB Windows would be, posted on April 8, 2012 at 03:46:56
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 that it can only be a single drive machine!

Am I correct to say this?

BTW, I had unknowingly bought a SATA to eSATA cable adapter for a few bucks some years back. Good for my H61M S2P mobo.

 

Hey smicyta, posted on April 8, 2012 at 03:51:57
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Try putting back in original shell32, shlwapi then go to cmp screen settings, add discs/folders. Then add D:\. Verify it plays files off of D. Then put back slimmed shell32, shlwapi.

 

RE: Trappists want to know how, posted on April 8, 2012 at 04:12:52
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 That might be misunderstood but I'll assume it's audio we're discussing . . .

What follows describes how I configured my "headless" cMP2-with-networking setup to ensure that cMP never needs to load more than one cuefile into memory.

I developed the scheme (which went through several different permutations but which I haven't changed for over a year now) to get round cMP's restrictive UI which IMHO is simply not up to handling a medium-to-large library. It was only later, after a series of exchanges with theob, that its sound quality advantages became clear. Well, to him at least - I don't really have anything to compare it with.

My music library resides on a shared drive on a desktop "server" which I also use to run my two cMP2 boxes. It should not be hard to adapt the routine for different scenarios as it relies on nothing more than cuefiles with absolute paths (which many already use in any case), a few shortcuts and a little batch file.

++++

1. If you don't already have one, create a library of cuefiles with absolute paths separate from main music library (the boring bit).

Tip 1: use Xcopy /T in a command window quickly to replicate the source library's directory structure and the "Set Output Folder" facility in AJ's CueSheetCreator to create cuefiles with abolute paths.

Tip 2: Use TextCrawler to edit cuefiles in bulk if e.g. you move them to a different drive or just screw up.

Tip 3: use the same character (typically M:) for the desktop's drive letter and the cMP2's network share so that the cuefiles are valid on both.

Tip 4: be sure to make regular backups of the new cuefiles.

2. Create a folder called M:\00. You later set cMP to "watch" this folder, i.e. to load its contents on boot or after a "Refresh".

3. The cuefile library is not seen by the cMP2 box and can sit anywhere on the desktop box. Browse it to select an album and copy its cuefile to M:\00.

Tip 1: for easy browsing, create a series of shortcuts to your library and put them in a separate folder called (e.g. and with imagination) "Music". This folder acts as a proxy for the cMP UI with the benefit that it doesn't depend on accurate tags to maintain structural integrity, is under the user's control and, crucially, doesn't gobble up resources on the cMP2 box.

Create a shortcut to it, give it a distinctive icon (so you can find it quickly) and put it on the QuickLaunch bar. To browse, click on the icon, select your cuefile, right-click on it and use SendTo to copy it to M:\00. Pictures H/W. You can then close the Explorer window.







Tip 2: create a batch file called "00-ClearList" (the 00 bit ensuring it appears at the top of the window) that reads "Del M:\00\*.cue /s". Put it in the same folder as your shortcuts - see above. Double-click on it to remove cuefiles from M:\00 for albums you have finished playing.

Tip 3: create a shortcut to M:\00 and put it the "Send To" menu - set Explorer to show hidden files and put the shortcut in the user's SendTo folder in "Documents and Settings".

4. In cMP's "Settings" dialogue, clear the "watched folders" list and add M:\00 to it.

Tip 1: to avoid any error messages on caused by cMP not seeing any cuefiles (e.g. before logging on), create a dummy cuefile, put it in C:\ and add C:\ to the watched folders list. To make a dummy file, copy these lines into Notepad:

REM GENRE 0
REM DATE
PERFORMER " "
TITLE " "
FILE "Theme.flac" WAVE
TRACK 01 AUDIO
TITLE "1"
PERFORMER "2"
INDEX 01 00:00:00

and save the file as Dummy.cue. At about 150 bytes, it can safely be assumed to have no effect on SQ.

5. Back on the cMP2 box, even after you replace a cuefile in M:\00, cMP still reports it (demonstrating again that it does indeed hold cuefiles in RAM). Click Refresh to lose the old cuefile and make the new one visible; play it as normal.

I quickly got used to this routine and find it faster and easier than messing about with cMP's UI. Aside from any SQ benefits (for which I have only theob's word as I haven't used the cMP UI for years), I do not intend to return to the old way.

Anyone interested in trying it is welcome to come back with questions where my notes are not clear.

Now, off to Evensong . . . Trappists have no time to gossip.

Dave

 

RE: Easy tweak ...sonic benefit of which is significant, posted on April 8, 2012 at 04:58:26
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Whether the music files are in memory or not (the logic is strong that they are not) it still makes a difference apims (as perceived in my system)if the cues only are in a separate folder and cmp only points to it.

If you only have one cue being pointed to it makes a bigger difference yes. But in my current setup I have anywhere from 250 -500 cues per disc (discs are 160-320 gb)with 3 different discs. Since in my current setup I can only have 1 disc at a time in cmp it is good ....apims. When I was running windows xp pro with a 350 kb system hive the system sounded better when only one disc was loaded. So for me it is no problem to have only one disc at a time loaded. This is one of the advantages of having a network whereby you can truly minimize how many cues/discs cmp works with. I guess one could reload explorer then do it per the ryelands method. One has to assess whether adding explorer and whatever else may be required to do this degrades sq less than the added benefit of the 'one cue at a time' method.

 

RE: Hey smicyta, posted on April 8, 2012 at 08:01:39
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 Thanks for responding theob.

Did as you suggested. Can see the drive D in cMP setting but when attempt to click on the expand(+) icon, it said "Drive not formatted".

Can add drive to the list but it would not detect it.

 

RE: Hey smicyta, posted on April 8, 2012 at 08:50:16
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Is it formatted the same as c drive? Are you in Jackwindows?

 

I was thinking this could be the problem, posted on April 8, 2012 at 19:34:57
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 It's a different format. C is FAT32 and D is NTFS. I was trying to format to the same but Windows doesn't allow that. SwissKnife only format about half of my 1TB in FAT32 and leave the other half unformatted. I am now using command prompt to format it to FAT32 and it's darn slow.

Yes I am in Jackwindows.

Let's see when I am home this evening..

Best Regards

 

RE: It works for sure, but, posted on April 9, 2012 at 02:40:06
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I'm afraid this tweak is not for me, unless I'll reRIP all my library

You don't need to re-rip any data to implement this routine though you do need to re-create your cuefiles to use the same routine as me. How long that would take obviously depends on how many albums you have but, for a thousand or less, I reckon it'd take a couple of hours including getting the hang of Al Jordan's CueSheetCreator.

But I really do owe grovelling apologies all round. There is another perfectly viable routine which I'd completely forgotten about which would at least allow you to try the idea at length without changing anything and may well be (as the adverts say) all you ever need.

Using cMP's Settings > Add/Remove Folders dialogue, temporarily clear the watched folders list then browse to and Add the folder - and only the folder - containing the target cuefile (and, of course, the music files though cMP doesn't see those). Repeat this every time you select an album.

If you don't have a relative cuefile in each album folder, CueSheetCreator can create them in, literally, minutes with almost no intervention. Point it to your music library's root folder, deselect "Use Custom Output Directory" and then hit "Process Library". You're done - a realtive cuefile in every folder. (To remove them, open a command window in the root directory and run: Del *.cue /s.)

Unlike the first routine I described, where you are copying the cuefile to where cMP expects to find it, you are instead pointing cMP to the cuefile. The effect is the same - cMP loads one and only one cuefile. The difference is that the second routine works fine on non-networked machines. Hair-shirt ones, even.

I'd be most grateful if someone could give it a try and report back any effect on SQ.

I used it to browse for music for at least a couple of years after cMP was published, having first spent several fruitless hours trying to make cMP's UI work with my library.

A friend for whom I built a cMP2 box has been using it ever since I handed over his system nearly three years ago and sees no reason to change. (His music is stored locally whereas mine is stored on a networked drive.)

HTH

Dave

 

RE: It works for sure, but, posted on April 9, 2012 at 07:34:25
Douwe01nl
Audiophile

Posts: 71
Location: Amsterdam
Joined: September 29, 2011
 Hi all,
I did some tests on my (Atom-based, no-network, usb-soundcard) machine.
I used to load all cuefiles from the data-drive. Now i load individual cuefiles from CMP-drive, this turned out to be the best SQ, thanks guys!
in order from best sq to less good sq:
- single cuefile from cmp-drive
- all cuefiles from cmp-drive,
- single cuefile from data-drive
- all cuefiles from data-drive
I keep a backup of all music files in my desktop computer. The musicfile-drive has the same driveletter as the datadrive of the CMP-machine. I make the cuefiles on my desktop, and after that copy the cuefile to the cmp-drive.

Douwe

 

RE: I was thinking this could be the problem, posted on April 9, 2012 at 07:49:07
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 And it was!

Finally use Easeus Partition Manager to format my 1TB external HDD to FAT32 format for the music folders in a couple of minutes after spending the whole day with dos command line which doesn't work.

Once again thank you theob for the guidance.

This nice piece of software is available at the link below.

 

All cues on cmp drive...brilliant idea!, posted on April 9, 2012 at 09:34:17
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Just tried it and it does improve sq significantly yet again. Thanks!

 

Sounds like you fixed it yourself...good one! nt, posted on April 9, 2012 at 10:45:21
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 .

 

Couldn't have done it without your input!, posted on April 9, 2012 at 15:33:38
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 And now can have a go too on the idea of having only cue files in cMP drive.

 

It may sound better but how do you explain..., posted on April 9, 2012 at 15:59:46
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 this result. It has been said that all the cues addressed in the cMP library window are retained in memory. My library comprises 2221 albums. The size of my separate cue folder is 5.6MB. So that is the most that could be occupying RAM during playback. But from what I observe it appears to me that only the cue file names are kept in memory not the entire content of all the cue files. I have this impression because sometimes a new cue file won't play in cPlay due to some error in it. I edit this cue file on my network drive from my desktop computer while that cue is already loaded into cMP with all the others, then I double-click the same entry in cMP and now it plays in cPlay. Doesn't this have to mean that when selected in cMP the cue contents are called up anew by cPlay from the changed file not from the original content of the file in memory, meaning the original content was not in memory?

 

Cue files display in cMP not in alphabetical order, posted on April 9, 2012 at 22:48:10
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 This happened during slimming of the software or system registries. Selection of All in cMP shows all files are not in alphabetical order. Anyone know the cause?

 

I have had the same problem, posted on April 10, 2012 at 07:38:02
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 and have just got used to it.

Grant and I were talking about this last night and the thought occurred that PartMgr, if restored to the registry (Services) and the .sys file to drivers.

Did not have a chance to try this last night so I cannot say it is the cause but I will try it tonight.

 

RE: Cue files display in cMP not in alphabetical order, posted on April 10, 2012 at 07:42:35
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 When I used Resource hacker I had this result, too. It damages as it removes things. Use Resource Tuner, if I recall the name correctly, which can do slimming of cMP without doing this sort of damage. (This all has been posted previously.)

 

NOW I remember!, posted on April 10, 2012 at 07:45:10
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I remember posting something to the effect that YOU were correct in your assessment of the benefits of PE vs RS!

Thanks for the reminder!!!!!!

Hated the idea of having to restore PartMgr ...

 

RE: It may sound better but how do you explain..., posted on April 10, 2012 at 08:43:15
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 You may be right but how do you also explain that putting all cues on the ssd c drive is better sonically than all the cues on a data drive?

There may be a simple rationale but in the interim I'll leave all my cues on the ssd.

 

RE: It may sound better but how do you explain..., posted on April 10, 2012 at 08:55:41
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 That was my point. It doesn't seem to have to do with how much ram is occupied with cue data. I can't explain either why a single cue sounds better or why many cues on the ssd sounds better than many on an external drive, which I also find to be true and which clearly does not differ as to how much ram is occupied. I have used them on the ssd for a long time but actually have reverted for most of the time to keeping them on the network drive with the music files because it is far more convenient--no continual updating of the cues on the ssd as music is acquired and ability to edit cues while in cMP without transfers.

 

RE: It may sound better but how do you explain..., posted on April 11, 2012 at 02:01:39
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 . . . it appears to me that only the cue file names are kept in memory not the entire content of all the cue files

I tested this by pointing cMP to a cuefile on my "server", editing the cuefile then launching it from cMP without hitting "Refresh". The edited file played fine and the changes I made were displayed correctly. IOW, it appears to me that you're absolutely right - thanks for the correction.

 

RE: It may sound better but how do you explain..., posted on April 11, 2012 at 07:06:33
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 You are welcome. So, "how do you explain" the difference in sound knowing that?

And what does IOW stand for?

 

RE: It may sound better but how do you explain..., posted on April 11, 2012 at 07:31:51
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 how do you explain the difference in sound . . .

Not having used cMP's UI for selecting files for many years, I only have the word of others that there is a difference. As to why, I haven't a clue.

what does IOW stand for?

In Other Words

 

Your are right!, posted on April 12, 2012 at 01:58:26
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 Resource hacker also messed up the text in the title bar which I had managed to restore.

Now I am back to the original back-up installation to resolve the menu order. At least can go through it faster than when I first started.

 

This anomaly is fast, posted on April 12, 2012 at 14:09:01
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 becoming typical, no matter how many drives. The number of files in windows\system32 and\drivers and fonts remains the same.
Sorry to answer only now.
I have finally got my esata-sata cable, The box works perfectly as a channel 0 master, So I'll start to experiment with JW ISO these days.
Serge.

 

Trappists are saying:, posted on April 12, 2012 at 14:16:06
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Thank You!
Serge.

 

TO REPEAT: riboge is right - do not use reshack on cMP!, posted on April 12, 2012 at 17:25:01
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 THANKS again for the reminder.

Amazing how quickly one can forget!!!

GLAD you didn't.

 

Good reminder! Jack mentioned this a while back too.nt, posted on April 12, 2012 at 18:22:58
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010

 

My assumption is wrong.., posted on April 12, 2012 at 18:35:35
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 Could had just reinstate ntfs in the registry to see whether it would works, but had since reformatted my external drive to FAT32,and with some hints from theob, managed to add the drive to cMP.

My Windows folder have an additional folder(Cursor)with just the arrow_rl file. I have problem with mouse pointer visibility on my screen even with the original cMP Windows.

Glad to hear that you have got your cable. Your method is definitely offers a lot more convenience than having to move the disk around.

Regards

 

Gigabyte Upgrade with GA-H61M-D2H-USB3 , posted on April 16, 2012 at 08:13:26
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Dear Forum,

For your information :

It may come to no surprise to you (what does in cMP regime) that a recent upgrade from the GA-H55M-UD2H with i3-540 to Gigabyte GA-H61M-D2H-USB3 with i3-2120T has made a really significant improvement in especially micro-dynamics and solidity of the bass performance.
Needless to say that all the other hardware remained the same (RME 9632 with AES/EBU output).

kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Gigabyte Upgrade with GA-H61M-D2H-USB3 , posted on April 16, 2012 at 22:44:12
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 HUH? I thought you used Lynx. Maybe this is a quote from another post?

Anyhow what current mobos are there that will work for cmp2? The one in your post is discontinued, and I cant seem to find ones that have onboard video.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: Gigabyte Upgrade with GA-H61M-D2H-USB3 , posted on April 17, 2012 at 00:40:57
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hi Dawnrazor,

I do indeed use the Aurora, but we´re a number of cMP2 users here.....:-)
And we configure/compare a few mashines for a growing "community", so I thought it would be useful for others to know.
The improvement is significant !
BIOS sttings are a little different, but we have captured the settings that was published by JackWong recently.

In the new i3-2120T CPU the graphics are performed directly in the processor, so the motherboards do not have a graphics chipset anymore.
The GA-H61M-D2H-USB3 is currently avaliable in Europe.

kind regards

Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Gigabyte Upgrade with GA-H61M-D2H-USB3 , posted on April 19, 2012 at 03:44:50
Toni
Audiophile

Posts: 44
Location: NL
Joined: January 29, 2002
Hi play-mate,

Why not the GA-H61M-S2P-B3 ?

That one has even less hardware options like DVI and HDMI.
And only 2 mem slots.
And is cheaper.

kind regards

 

How to remove the DRMK.SYS, posted on April 20, 2012 at 21:59:41
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. You know how I was all time at war with drmk.sys. Here's the way to kill the thing.
I describe here the procedure for Lynx (including Aurora, I presume), but I have small doubt it will work for anyone, who still has portcls.sys in his system. It's this file, that won't initialise without drmk.sys. In order to, just:
rename your current portcls.sys to portcls.old and
insert portclis.sys from WINDOWS 2000.
Rename drmk.sys to drmk.old. Reboot.
If the system plays, delete the drmk.old
Listen to some free music at last.
Serge.
I have this stripped and ready w2k file. Just e-mail me for "details"

 

RE: How to remove the DRMK.SYS, posted on April 21, 2012 at 08:28:50
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 This tweak (yes even for us Jwindows types) is a revelation. Try it and although Serge indicates it takes a while I noticed the effects right away. Highs become more articulate with a loss of egdiness I did not know was there until I tried this. Another masterpiece from Serge!

 

rusbes@gmail.com cMP installation manual, posted on April 22, 2012 at 02:34:02
rusbes@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: Moscou
Joined: April 22, 2012
 Why PCI Latency Timer (CLK) include a 128 if the sound at umenâ prior to installation of the 128 Latency Timer is well below was if I am not mistaken-36. Can 128 is needed only for sound Julia? And what better 128 or less important?

 

The complete NEPTUNE KERNEL WALKTHROUGH, posted on April 23, 2012 at 07:03:35
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody!
First of all, I must apologize for sending INCORRECT INSTRUCTIONS before with neptune pack, concerning the neptune.exe introduction.
This is the right thing now, with all due switches, a-la MS, booting, rebooting, rebooting to tighter memory timings, everything works, even after unplugging the powercord from the wall outlet.
0. Make sure that Your cmp works, as usual, wo a problem.
1. Copy the neptune.exe file to Your system32 folder.
2. Open Your boot.ini with the notepad and enter this switch AFTER
/fastdetect
/KERNEL=neptune.exe
(please, note, that original file was neptune.exe, not Neptune.exe or NEPTUNE.EXE)

The following is my WORKING boot.ini string:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=alwaysoff /fastdetect /KERNEL=neptune.exe /maxmem=512 /UsePMTimer /timeres=2441 /nodebug /pcilock /nopae /onecpu /noguiboot /MININT

Please, note, that there are NO double spaces and ANY ADDITIONAL spaces between or before the switches.
Make sure that notepad is not set to auto break strings or auto word wrap or any other comand in Format menu.
3. Copy ntkrnlpa.exe file from Your iso and don't forget to decompress it to system32 folder.
4. Rename Your existing ntoskrnl.exe to ntoskrnl.old (never mind the warnings)
5. Reboot. If You have made everything carefully and correctly, You will hear this magic immediately, not after 3-4 days, as I wrote before (explanations later)
6. Now, You will probably LOVE what You hear, but if You reboot now, You will get a nasty ntoskrnl.exe failed notice. WHY SO. That was the thing I faced with w2k kernel, and we have experienced with Grant and Rick. The problem is, that the /kernel= switch is for debugging of experimental kernels and this feature seems to be a one-time only. On reboot, our kernel itself MODIFIES ntldr and ntdetect, preventing You to boot it again, unless, ... You change the SYSTEM DATE IN BIOS. Every wise man has a lot of simplicity in him, as we say in our country. So, to make the change permanent (is 12 years enough for You?)
7. Close cmp, and when it asks, if it should reboot after the system shutdown, say yes, the system will start rebooting, so immediately ENTER the BIOS SETUP and change the system date to the earliest possible. Mine is now at 01.01.2000. press F10 to save changes to bios and let the system reboot. You ARE THERE!!!
Enjoy.
Serge.
P.S. I wish to express my gratitude to Rick and Grant for being as obsessive with finding the truth as myself and for expressing healthy doubts to focus my attention to the problem.

 

Explanations and about boot.ini /switches, posted on April 23, 2012 at 07:30:48
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. I must confess, that the first set of directions (sent with the neptune pack) was wrong. When I first introduced the neptune.exe, it sang immediately, but then it would refuse to reboot. i have made ALL SORTS of manipulations, including removing / slash before /kernel=, also, only today I have finally found that the switch itself is a one session only thing and that it should be put after fastdetect.
Now, Grant introduced the neptune.exe as I did at first, and he was very enthusiastic at first, but the thing refused to reboot, naturally, and we spent several hard hours to restore his system, with mine playing "perfectly" but WITHOUT /, so, without the true kernel. After we (me and some other inmates) all put the kernel= without a switch, the systems worked well, and what differences and improvements came from other files in the neptune pack were interpreted by us as the kernel improvements, which they were NOT. It's a simple placebo effect augmented with our expectations + real improvements that came with other files' substitutions. So, this is the truth, which I felt I should not conceal.

About other boot.ini switches.
You might have read that on our level of registry tweaking boot.ini parameters are not relevant anymore... This statement is incorrect, because boot.ini is used by windows loading (booting) process BEFORE the registry is read, and the boot.ini parameters override any registry parameters. (Read wiki for details on win xp boot process).
next, UsePMTimer setting is not for kernel, it is FOR THE HAL, and we all use the same hal.dll, be it xp pro or home. The timeres swithc set to 2441 is a division of 9766 by two and then by two again (rounded, like rounded are the official MS figures) and it is for hpet timer, that should be enabled in boot.ini. I hope You remember, whenI suggested to return to it and the discussion. Query Performance Counters on a nonstripped machine is documented in the net to work with hpet in xp and EVEN Win2000.
For those, interested to know, neptune.exe is the ntoskrnl.exe from NT 3.5.1.
Serge.
Hope, You will forgive my mistakes, and will enjoy Your system equipped with a new donor heart.
For those, still in doubt, Yes, this big tweak is worth it absolutely.

 

To FOLKS WITH JW home cmp, posted on April 23, 2012 at 09:06:09
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Folks! This tweak isn't yet tested with Your Home windows, so, I suggest that You
do not use ntkrnlpa.exe.
Instead, leave Your ntoskrnl.exe intact,
DO NOT rename it and
do not introduce ntkrnlpa.exe to Your system32.
Everything else remains the same.
Serge.
Be attentive! If Your neptune file is Neptune.exe, the syntax in boot.ini should be /KERNEL=Neptune.exe

 

RE: To FOLKS WITH JW home cmp, posted on April 23, 2012 at 14:06:10
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 If Your neptune file is Neptune.exe . . .

It's probably an age thing but I'm getting confused here. If "Neptune.exe" is the NT 3.5 kernel (BTW and IMHO, NT 3.5 was possibly Microsoft's best ever OS), why are we using boot.ini's Kernel switch? Why not just rename Neptune.exe to ntoskrnl.exe and replace the XP version?

I ask because, when I tried the Kernel switch on my Intel D510 cMP system, everything seemed OK though it wouldn't work on my Fit-PC2 setup. Fiddling with this and that to get to grips with the issue, I renamed Neptune.exe and deleted the switch on the Intel board: the system booted and allowed VNC access over the LAN but would not logon to the music "server".

I'm wondering therefore if the replacement kernel was in fact not loaded when invoked by the boot-dot-ini switch but was when the XP file was replaced. In short, how can one be sure which version one is running - if at all?

 

What kernel really works, posted on April 23, 2012 at 15:53:21
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 I have tried renaming the neptune file to ntoskrnl.exe with ntkrnlpa.exe present in the system. The system will boot... ONCE. It was then that my suspicions became certainity - the ntldr doesn't only have a hardcoded feature to recognize the name ntoskrnl, but each version of nt, xp or w2k has its own ntldr + ntdetect.com that work only with their native kernels. others will boot once for debugging session. I have compared sizes, and the ntldr and ntdetect.com sizes are different for all versions. I have tried using nt3.5 ntldr in xp, The system won't even start, which is easily explained, because not only kernel, but also, HAL.dll is involved in the boot process, and while kernel is the same for all versions (the size is different because of unnecessary crap), the hals are different. So, the only supposition was that the date-time stamp on ntldr and ntdetect.com are the culprit. Also, any ntfs.sys or ntoskrnl error is "spoiling" the nice pair - ntldr and ntdetect.com. We greately underestimate/neglect the role of these two. In fact, any burnt down Windows system can be easily repaired with a little manual editing of the registry and overwriting ntldr-ntdetect.com pair with a fresh copy from the iso. So it goes.
You can say that the new kernel WAS working, if the system doesn't boot immediately after the experimental session, if the sound quality change is not enough.
Serge.
Certainly, I haven't tried the thing in Your setup configuration...

 

Where is the Neptune kernel?, posted on April 23, 2012 at 16:02:40
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I feel I am not getting the whole picture here...

Where is this kernel file?
Have you been experimenting with other users?
What Iso?
Is it safe to change for ANY cMP user?

 

the neptune pack, posted on April 23, 2012 at 16:16:23
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 is availible in different places. E-mail me for details now.
Serge.

 

All this time I was MISLEADING, SORRY, posted on April 24, 2012 at 09:56:00
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. I must confess, my instructions were wrong AND the neptune.exe files themselves BOTH TIMES were WRONG.
I was making dozens of reboots and substitutions and simply got lost in all these boot.ini-s and file versions.

That time I had written about everything playing well, my neptune kernel was called neptunee.exe (smallest difference) to confirm to 8.3 standard in an attempt to somehow fool the ntldr-ntdetect.com. While in the boot.ini I had /KERNEL=neptune.exe. So in fact the kernel wasn't working at all and all my time-date tweak is false, for it doesn't work.

Now, the file that really works, is here, it's really a NT 3.1 kernel, not NT 3.5.1, - another thing that worked to mislead myself.
Well, only about two hours ago I found this thing. I am sorry. The file would boot only once, certainly, though You can easily boot it any time, Simply, it requires a certain procedure.
First, the neptune.exe should be in system32
Edit Your boot.ini, just like MS says we should (after fastdetect) /KERNEL=neptune.exe
It boots wo a problem, plays very well, it's much more resolving and smooth.
When You need to power down, just power down, but to boot with normal kernel next time (and You can only boot with a normal kernel next time), You need to do the following exactly and only in the followind sequence:
1. Edit boot.ini to DELETE the /KERNEL=neptune.exe switch
2. Delete win.ini file
3. Overwrite Your ntldr and ntdetect.com with a fresh pair from Your iso or, like me, from a reserve folder.
Reboot.
If You do this correctly, You won't get the ntoskrnl.exe error.
This way the whole procedure of using neptune, powering down and rebooting with normal kernel takes appr. 5 minutes.
I know that it's a PITA, but this way we can use it, at least, for some more important and longer sessions.
Serge.
Anyone who is STILL INTERESTED, can e-mail me to get the right one.

 

RE: All this time I was MISLEADING, SORRY, posted on April 24, 2012 at 10:53:32
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Hi Serge just a question or 2:

1) put the new neptune in system32 (leave both ntoskrnl and ntkrnlpa in sys32?)

2) amend boot.ini with kernel = neptune.exe

3) boot & enjoy great music

4) When you have to shut down amend boot.ini, delete win.ini, overwrite ntldr and ntdetect and boot into normal kernel

5) Go back to 1 to get the good kernel

Do I have it right?

 

RE: All this time I was MISLEADING, SORRY, posted on April 24, 2012 at 11:12:23
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 One more question for you Serge (and btw I'm nutty enough to live with this if I can get it to work and do I appreciate your efforts in making cmp a great sounding pc system) but what if I Snapshot my neptune kernel system and my regular kernel system and save those SS files. Then on an ongoing basis why could I not just restore my CMP disc with one or the other prior to rebooting? In fact why not restore the initial OS with neptune everytime I reboot? What tells the pc that the boot into it is the 1st or 2nd boot? With Jwindows so small I can Snapshot it back up in under 7-10 seconds. This I can definitely live with if I can get it to work.

 

Almost right., posted on April 24, 2012 at 11:14:04
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, again, Ted! You do not need TWO original kernels. Keep just the one You were usually listening to say, ntoskrnl.exe or ntkrnlpa.exe
Everything else is right. Just be sure to observe the sequence of deletions to reboot to "normal" non-neptuned state wo an error.
Serge.
I usually power up once a day, so for me the whole procedure is not a problem, exept it doesn't allow me to reboot to enter the cmp-extreme memory timings, but it's another story.

 

This is also an option, posted on April 24, 2012 at 11:17:22
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 I think, exept, You will be fragmenting Your drive very quickly.
Serge.
But I am not sure now. What if ntldr and ntdetect.com won't snapshot well? They are VERY TRICKY.

 

RE: This is also an option, posted on April 24, 2012 at 11:22:32
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 On the run up to where I am right now I have SS my ssd probably 200 times since last year. Always worked well. Think I'll try.

 

Let's STOP this false KERNEL IDEA, posted on April 27, 2012 at 01:24:35
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. As I started all this mess with kernels I think I must Disclaim it now.
None seems to be able to load it, and what occasional boots I have, I think are normal boots with win xp kernel, with the /KERNEL=neptune.exe syntax in my boot.ini either wrong at times with multiple retries, or just being ignored.
The Idea is NOT good and wrong from the start, as is explained here:
http://www.osronline.com/showthread.cfm?link=224660.
So, I apologize for leading some of You into this dead-end. I must have been wrong from the start.
I think I should avoid posting any new and not BULLETPROOF tweaks in the future, especially if they are not yet preliminary confirmed to work 100% by other inmates through personal circulation.
Serge.
P.S. I am sorry, inmates.
P.P.S. Many thanks to GRANT for clarification. It will save us a lot of unnecessary frustrating attempts.

 

RE: Let's STOP this false KERNEL IDEA, posted on April 27, 2012 at 02:48:39
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 No need to feel bad about this. You are still a hero...big time. So there is one tweak out of ... what maybe several hundreds that did not work. I'll try your ideas every time. Don't stop...chalk it up as experience and go on. Some of the comments on the thread from windows experts(and kudos to Grant for a very well written problem description) show me how far and how intelligent some of the ideas borne on this site have progressed. I know how good they sound. When you listen to music 4-6 hours a day you dont need a-b double blind tests.

No question there probably are great ideas in the thread posed by windows experts(linux any one?) but they probably dont know that the ideas in a minimum registry/os have developed over several years and have been confirmed all over the world.

I say there is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Though the tweak may be wrong I DID NOT LIE, posted on April 27, 2012 at 03:43:40
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. It turns out, the proof is in thr fat32-ntfs booting routine, and though I was wrong, thinking that kernel changes ntldr, It does change , but the BOOT RECORD

The complete article is here (I and I suspect this man may know about Windows boot proceess more than the collective knowledge of those hackers):
http://thestarman.pcministry.com/asm/mbr/NTFSBR.htm

Here follows what leads me to insist that inmates cannot boot into Fat32 with neptune.exe:

... We will point out below that the NTFS "Backup Boot Sector" is not part of the NTFS Volume, yet their paper incorreclty states: "Hidden at the end of the volume, is a copy of the boot sector (cluster 0)."; it's actually 1 sector beyond the end of the Volume).

NTFS Boot Record is often described as being a single sector (see the proof below!), the truth is that it would never be able to boot up a Win 2000/XP OS without the next six sectors (so far) that comprise most of an NTFS partition's Boot Code. So, even though an NTFS partition's “Boot Record†is technically only 1 sector in length, we should never forget about the necessity of the “Bootstrap Code†which follows it. Furthermore, Microsoft states that the OS itself “allocates the first 16 sectors for the boot sector and the bootstrap code1.†Thus, Microsoft could have created a bootstrap code that was more than twice the size it is now.

So, the "Bootstrap code" really is just that: It's only used to boot up ANY existing OS in that partition! Even though the phrase "Boot Record" isn't very descriptive for a sector that's only used to access files in the partition, there's an historical precedent for using it this way: The first sector of every floppy disk is also called a "Boot Record" even though it will never be bootable unless you add the correct system boot files to it! You can, of course, remove most of the boot code from either the NTFS or a floppy's Boot Record, since their BPBs are the only thing that an OS needs in order to access their files!!

The NTFS Boot Record's “Backup Sectorâ€

The Win 2000/XP OSs make a "backup" of each NTFS volume's Boot Record which they store in the very last sector of its partition!
[ Note: I said "partition" not volume. This is why an NTFS partition's Total Sectors count in the MBR/EBR's Partition Table is always 1 sector more than the "Total Sectors (in Volume)" count found in its Boot Record. Although the words partition and volume are often thought of as being synonymous (we may even use them as such here!), they are definitely not the same thing.

" Count of hidden sectors preceding the partition that contains this [NTFS] volume. This field is generally only relevant for media visible on interrupt 0x13. This field should always be zero on media that are not partitioned. Exactly what value is appropriate is operating system specific." [ Although I'm not exactly sure what all the implications are of this quote from Microsoft, I can tell you that this value is definitely used while reading the boot sectors into Memory!

According to most documentation, this area is not supposed to be used by NTFS, but after examining the code in the Boot Record, it seems clear that the first byte of these four bytes is used to set the drive number! (See offsets: 7C7B and 7CAF).

For those, who want details, please, read the original (detailed and well illustrated) article in full.
So, the culprit, as I understand is the DIFFERENCE in the way the boot process is executed in ntfs and fat32.

Serge.

 

I fully agree with Theo: "there is nothing to be ashamed of." nt, posted on April 27, 2012 at 09:32:27
hfavandepas
 NT

 

OF COURSE, there isn't., posted on April 27, 2012 at 09:41:04
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I would try anything Serge suggested.

 

Gigabyte 2 oz copper-board: Anyone heard a difference ?, posted on April 29, 2012 at 00:06:36
multiblitz
Audiophile

Posts: 13
Joined: April 29, 2012
 I am thinking to build a new Audio PC and thinking about the choices:

- Atom 32nm Board vs
- ITX vs
- uATX

I am leaning towards Lynx with PCIe (have as well the Julia, like the Lynx better).

Must be a bios which can be adjusted to undervolt etc...so Z77 most likely.

I am thinking to get a 22nm CPU...question there: i3 ? or I7 and then switch off the unneccesasary cores via bios ?

Choices over choices. One question: has anyone an opion about the GIgabyte 2 oz copper boards ? Will they sound better ?

 

It is only just a question, posted on April 29, 2012 at 12:43:15
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 of i3 or i7, I think?
Hello,
I think it is the choice between i3 and i7. If it is i3, it means less problems with "intracore timmings", but no videocard, and the processor using memory for video, while with i7 you NEED an individual videocard, get highier, IIRC, voltage from the start, but will free memory.
Also, keep in mind, that going ultra slim registry way, You will in the end see, that You have to choose, if it's removing Lynx mixer (hardware) settings from the registry, or keeping them, (which add 32 kb to the system hive). If You remove the mixer settings from the registry, Lynx will be working in +4bdv professional analog output regime, and You can damage inputs of the home (not pro) preamp, If You will be using a dac, I think it makes no difference, but isn't Lynx set for 48 not 44,1 by default?
Serge.

 

RE: Gigabyte 2 oz copper-board: Anyone heard a difference ?, posted on April 30, 2012 at 01:08:59
Douwe01nl
Audiophile

Posts: 71
Location: Amsterdam
Joined: September 29, 2011
 When i changed from GA-H55M + i3-530 to a Atom-based Asrock board, it was a huge SQ-improvement. I think because of lack of (unneeded) functionality on the Asrock, like hdmi, dvi, usb3 chips. The Atom can upsample to 88.2, which is ok for me, my dac upsamples to 172. So i would ssay pick the smallest board with the least funcionality. Also count the number of coils (don't remember the right enlish wrd), it can give some info about stability of powerlines on the board

 

I have used both - I think it is for reliability not performance, posted on April 30, 2012 at 07:30:16
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Ironically the thinner sheet would actually be better for high frequencies which is not an issue for us at the speeds we ask of our boards.

So I figure it is only for ruggedness.

One could argue that the thicker material might further slow down the MB. But that is pushing to outer limits of tweak obsessives!

The best sounding MB I have ever used has the standard weight copper but I am sure that aspect has nothing to do with its performance.

I am using the board Jack Wong recommended - GIGABYTE H61MA-S2H.

 

Chokes You Mean. nt, posted on April 30, 2012 at 09:15:36
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010

 

Configuring cMP2 /nLite, posted on May 2, 2012 at 08:58:07
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Dear Inmates,

It´s very comforting to find more and more people having genuine interrest for cMP2. Now that I´ve done quite some advertizing for it, people come and need help (which I´m happy to do to my abillities).
So far it´s been about 6 or 7 mashines, that I´ve configured from scratch, so eventually I need a bit of a shortcut.

Doing an configured cMP2 image on a foreign SSD does not work...
I´ve understood that one can boot a "virtual" drive via CD/DVD by the means of an ISO image, but there is no way that this can be installed on a clean SSD partition, right ?

I´ll start doing a nLite installation disk instead, but how much more than the obvious can be configured via nLite ?
I guess AWE, .ini-file and minlogon has to go in afterwards ???

I´m not sure if I´m ready to deleting hives (yet), but maybe someone could summarise what can be done within nLite, and what would be the most logical steps afterwards....

Help & suggestions most welcome !

kind regards


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Configuring cMP2 /nLite, posted on May 2, 2012 at 09:36:39
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Best thing you can do is run one of those programs (Russinovich Process Explorer?)that tells you what system32 files you need for your vst routines. Then delete all files/ hives per Jack and/or Serge.

 

RE: Configuring cMP2 /nLite, posted on May 2, 2012 at 13:57:10
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hi Theob,

so, what you´re saying is, that working with nLite, AWE, minlogon is no longer the way to go ??

I haven´t looked into the registry hives yet, as I missed the start of the discussion and the fishy parts.....I could probably catch up, but where to begin ? I´m sure you can imagine confusing it is to assemble all the bits, comments and threads on this matter....

This new configuration is not direcly for myself, but I´m naturally keen on staying "afloat" of new tweaks. This new setup is standard with Juli@.
For my own system with digital crossovers, FIR filters, FireWire, VST etc. I will have to do some more experiments with "Process Explorer", and see what works and what not.
That´s a different story.

Thanks for your help.


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Configuring cMP2 /nLite, posted on May 2, 2012 at 14:08:24
Douwe01nl
Audiophile

Posts: 71
Location: Amsterdam
Joined: September 29, 2011
 Hi Playmate,
You CAN put a "HDD-configured" CMP2 image on a new SSD. What is important is that you should align the ssd right. You can do it in a few different ways.
This is the way i did it:
- google for GParted and download (alternative: Parted Magic, it's a tiny OS containing GParted)
- google for GParted on USB and download the programm which makes a USB stick bootable and boots GParted
- start GParted by booting from USB
- when you find the ssd make the desired partition(s).
- BUT you should leve EXACTLY 1 MB unallocated (free) space BEFORE the first partition. Now "HDD-cmp" can find the firrst sector of your disk and boots.
- second action BEFORE creating the partition is to leave the box "Round to cylinders" checked. (i don't know exactly why, but i did it this way and it worked).
- now you can put the "hdd"-image on it; do not forget to copy the MBR

Another way is to put the ssd into a Windows-7 machine and partition the disk. Win7 recognizes an ssd and will do the right allignment itself.
I didn't try this method.

HTH

Douwe

 

RE: Configuring cMP2 /nLite, posted on May 2, 2012 at 16:17:38
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 No not at all. By all means do N-lite, awe, minlogon then do the Jack and Serge stuff.

 

Configuring with nLite, posted on May 3, 2012 at 02:59:20
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hey theob,

Thx. for your input.
I´m about to asseble a kind of recepie on this, by going through this forums entire tree of comments and advice.....uh, gettin´dizzy....

Since I´ve started the work on the german cMP2 website, and sort of taking a new approach on the guideance, I better get it close to right....
I will configure a completly new hardware along with re-writing the steps configuration.

I found this nLite advice from rickmcinnies.
Does anyone have a comment before I perform these steps ? :

"Make an nLite install disk with the only the following remaining:

DRIVERS
IBM PS/2 TrackPoint (for obvious reasons)
HARDWARE SUPPORT
CPU Intel
Intel PCI/IDE Controller
OPERATING SYSTEM OPTIONS
SMBus contoller
Certificate Management
Group Policy Mgmt Console
Local Security Settings (this one might be done without. I will try eventually)
Out of Box Experience (if you delete this the machine will not work)
SERVICES
RPC Locator (figure cMP needs this)

Make sure you disable Windows File Protection and Prefetch.
There are other things to do that should be obvious. Look at all of the choices after the main deletion menu. Many are personal taste choices and others disable or eliminate stuff you do not want. Do not rush through here the first time. Think about what you want.

This will result in the fastest WINDOWS install you have ever experienced.

Install the chipset drivers

Implement MINLOGON

Install JULI@ - be sure to go ahead and turn off the undeletable AUDIO CODEC and to check "do not map through this device' and "do not use the mixer".

Implement AWE - when you type in ADMINSITRATORS it will tell you it does not recognize the name. Disregard the warning, cancel out, SAVE and restart.

Install cMP2 software. make sure all is working and check to see if "AWE successful" - if not go through the MMC process again.

Do the optimizations - you will find many of them moot due to this minimal installation.

On my current build I disabled the SMBus Controller in HARDWARE and now it is tricky to restart into STEPPE's BIOS. Next time I will leave this enabled. Anybody know how to RESTART without turning the PS on and off?

Disable the SERVICES. You will notice the list is much smaller and many are already disabled.

Do AUTORUNS. I took a chance (all worked out well) and checked a few of the VIDEO CODECS.

Use the Steppe REGISTRY mods all at once. Junaid's batch files make this quick and easy."


I will probably need further advice on the Registry Mods after this.
It would be great to recieve everones support for this undertaking, as I think the cMP2 project has become ripe for a serious update....

Kind regards Leif

Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Configuring with nLite, posted on May 3, 2012 at 08:36:15
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Leif,

I will configure a completly new hardware along with re-writing the steps configuration.

Great project and I cant wait for the write up.

Though I doubt it will help (me at least). The mobo you mentioned is not available here and no one seems to be able to recommend one that IS available or at least give any kind of guidelines I can follow.

So what does one look for in a mobo these days outside of a pci slot?

Here is a link that shows the current mobos that are available. Any thoughts?



Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: Configuring with nLite, posted on May 3, 2012 at 11:18:21
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hey Dawnrazor,

Yeah, it´s a bit of a puzzle to find out how to give the project an easier approach, but putting together the last 6-8 month of discussions on hives, AWE, registry etc. Wat works and what not
...is indeed a challenge.

Of your list of MB´s I´ve found one that I think would be good :
GIGABYTE GA-H61M-S2H

You may expect that the BIOS settings are different, especially on the clock- and voltage settings in the M.I.T. section.
But since there are fewer "knobs" to screw up, it will be easier to find an acceptable balance.

kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

First of all, posted on May 3, 2012 at 13:08:57
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, play-mate! (please, excuse me, I do not yet know Your name).
if You are going to try the thing to produce a DISTRIBUTABLE iso, write to me, I will tell You how to obtain a VL version of xp pro, that will allow to delete the OOBE from the start. Also, I will send You my ini files for my nlite disk, that allows trouble free AWE, unlike the isos from Rick and Junaid. No problem here.
I'd like to focus the inmates' attention on the possibility of using a esata-sata cable with an external esata-usb hdd box. It will allow to power the sata hdd externally, but at the same time to avoid using esata on the mobo, just plugging the hdd into the sata slot master 0. This allows for even deeper registry reduction. Also, though I don't have JW's ISO, I'd try to contact with him, as I believe, that he has some how-tos about manually editing ini files in the iso. He will explain what I mean.
Ant mobo will fit, as long as it uses NO hdmi and other alternative video outputs. We all should experiment with battery powered mice.
To Dawnrazor, sir, please, wait a little, as I think we will soon see the post from one of our active cmp-users about memory timings on GA G31 MS2L mobo.
Also, about the timings, as far as I know, other folks experience very good results with modern mobos that allow to coldstart the cmp with EXTREMELY low voltage...
Serge.
Play-mate, sir, thank You for Your great initiative!!!

 

It's so empty and cool, posted on May 4, 2012 at 16:50:04
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006



Hello, everybody.
Just a pic. It's so empty and cool, well, ... and dusty inside my cmp with an external drive and no fans.
Serge.

 

RE: It's so empty and cool, posted on May 4, 2012 at 18:57:11
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I thought you were going to refer to this forum!

Well, many cMP2 systems are similar to that one.

However, I sincerely hope that you will be able to provide the community, together perhaps with other dedicated users, with a final routine installation which allows "hooks" to different cards and requirements (lan, fw, usb).
Otherwise, it will really remain "empty and cool".

 

Tales from Jurassic Park ...-OR-... reAnimate Your Dinosaur G31M-S2L mobo, posted on May 5, 2012 at 02:27:53
gjwAudio
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Location: Toronto
Joined: March 11, 2006
 Hello Intrepid cMP-ers !

Here's a call-out to those still living in The Land That Time Forgot... with your Gigabyte G31M motherboard, and "DRAM Timing Selectable" parameters still stuck on Auto in your BIOS (phew... how's that for a room clearing qualifier ?)

This is a message of Hope and Help, offered to you few who're still riding the Dinosaur mobo (G31M) from the Jurassic Age of cMP.

I am one of you - and this is the Tale of How I Tamed The Memory Timings... and made everything sound better !

It all began when Serge (Steppe) posted his suggestions for BIOS manipulation ("New Tweaks part 21 CORRECTED", http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/9/97480.html ), especially the recipe for memory tuning. I must confess I've no real idea of what changing these numbers actually does to the operation of the RAM (except to make it perform "better"). To compound the confusion, he referenced settings in his H55M-UD2H BIOS, which have few corresponding controls in the G31M BIOS (similar function but totally different label). What's a Boy to Do ? Nuthin...

Without understanding of how these things relate to one another - and no guide specific to the older BIOS, the safe thing was to leave it as AUTO, and know it would work according to spec.

Chicken, Chicken, Chicken.

Recently I asked Serge off-forum to recommend settings I should try with the G31M, and based on my initial positive results, he encouraged me to continue in the same direction (...till it wouldn't boot - and then back off a little - having empirically found the limits for my particular samples of RAM/CPU/mobo). During these email exchanges, he remarked the numbers were getting "insane".

I am very pleased at how the faster timings transformed the sound of my cMP^2 playback. I've been running trouble-free (and best-sound-ever) for two weeks now at the 6th level, and it's time to share the final results with the community.

Here follows a chart of the performance plateaux I passed through on the way to The INSANE G31M Memory Timings !

(numbers in square brackets are values I changed myself; the column under SPD shows the default settings indicated by the memory module itself; the "LowVal" item shows the bottom limit specified by the G31M)



Remember to hit SHIFT+F1 to gain access to the advanced settings in the "MB Intelligent Tweaker" page of the BIOS setup.

I don't expect everybody's G31M will behave exactly as mine - many other factors could get in the way - so it's safe to promise YMWV (your mileage WILL vary !) - however, it is definitely worth the trouble & reboots to get the most out of your particular RAM.

I encourage you to try it for yourself and report back your impressions. Perhaps those other secret beta-testers will chime in with their findings.

Enjoy the New SQ !

Cheers,
Grant

That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!

 

RE: Configuring with nLite, posted on May 5, 2012 at 02:29:25
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 All of the above plus "Multi-Processor Support". Make sure to retain it as well. Its very simple to remove unwanted dll & sys files by editing the 'textsetup.oem' file that goes with your nLite install. By doing this, you would no longer need to opt for file deletions, as you would already omit them before install, by means of the textsetup.oem file. Same goes for adding drivers as well as executables like Cicsmemoryplayer.exe or Cicsplay.exe. Edit the file with Notepad & remove unnecessary files that u do not need...

Junaid

 

textfile .oem ?, posted on May 5, 2012 at 07:14:29
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hey Jolida,

I´ll be okay with the mulithreading in BIOS, but what do you mean by "textsetup.oem" ???

Cannot find this file; nor "txtsetup.oem".....

Can you explain further, please.

Do we (ayone) have a complete summary list of unwanted DLL and drivers (in this context)?

Can´t wait to get it all up and running....


kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Tales from Jurassic Park ...-OR-... reAnimate Your Dinosaur G31M-S2L mobo, posted on May 5, 2012 at 09:04:35
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Grant,

I just plugged in the numbers you have on column 6 and it worked.

My voltage settings are different and I wanted to keep that the same so I was just testing the memory settings.

They work great. Though I cant comment on the sound. This is my headphone rig and I dont claim that it is all that good or resolving. It does sound nice though with your timings.

Thanks for doing this. Mine were just set to auto.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

A Long-awaited BOOST in SQ, posted on May 5, 2012 at 10:18:07
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, Grant!
I am really happy, that You have posted it, for these settings ARE VERY IMPORTANT to many CMP-followers.
I can well remember how helpless I felt, when inmate Dawnrazor, whose experience is respected here, asked me about details on his mobo, and I couldn't help him much. Now we have the comprehensive way.
You are the only one, who had courage to start this timings thing with this mobo, really in the fog, and I am SURE, inmates will use these settings.
It's not only helpfull to those of us, who have the "precedent" mobo and followed all our tweaks, but also, and that is of UTMOST importance, to the inmates, who are just going to start tweaking.
Brilliant work and a lot of patience was requiered, I know.
Thank You for pushing the thing further and upwards.
Serge.

 

It's easier, posted on May 5, 2012 at 10:30:40
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody!
First of all, I'd like to note, that Junaid's warning about multiprocessor support is extremely important, as it assures CORRECT hal.dll and correct initial kernel will be renamed to real hal.dll and ntoskrnl.exe DURING INSTALL. Yes, this is the windows' trick!
Next! It's much easier NOW to tell what files SHOULD remain after ALL, because the files to be deleted are LEGION.
I think that the difference between Julia and Lynx and Firewire-usb options will be 3-4 files, while their total number is less than a hundred.
I can once again post the pic of my system32 and drivers and fonts folder, or, if anyone needs, can write me for details. Warning! this is an NTFS-XP-PRO-LYNX version.
Serge.
Junaid! Welcome back!

 

Update, posted on May 6, 2012 at 01:38:44
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Gjw,

I played it most of the day and then turned it off. FWIW it booted with no issues, so the timing seem stable at least on my system.

I'll try the voltage. On this box I can get to 960mhz but it often resets.

Oh and are you using just one psu? Or 2 with the 2nd working the drives? Or the 2nd one doing the drives and the processor??



Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: textfile .oem ?, posted on May 6, 2012 at 22:21:07
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Hi Leif,

I think Jolida is referring to the file LastSession.ini (or .inf) where you can find details on the installation and edit it through Notepad.

I highly recommend you not to restrict your cMP optimization to a classic one (by cics notes), otherwise SQ will be compromised - bass is missing. It seems that one has to go all the way with slimming optimizations to enjoy a full sound again.
You can keep your "normal cMP2" and compare it to "super cMP2" all the time...and then report back. :-)

It would be interesting to know from Steppe and other users who have implemented the change at what stage "sound is back", to know exactly what it made the "final" change for the better. Registry slimming?!

 

RE: Configuring with nLite, posted on May 7, 2012 at 01:27:03
audiofanatic
 I am looking for the batch files of Junaid, can somebody help me to find them?

 

Answering Dawnrazor..., posted on May 7, 2012 at 13:39:16
gjwAudio
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Location: Toronto
Joined: March 11, 2006
 Hi DR

I'm glad this works for you... thanks for reporting back.

Are you using just one psu? Or 2 with the 2nd working the drives? Or the 2nd one doing the drives and the processor??

Single Antec 430 PSU (P4 & P24 only), Granite-type power brick for SSD (3 x OS + 1 FAT32 local Music library), external eSATA/FW/USB drive enclosure with dedicated power brick (2TB Master Music Library).

Typical clockspeed is 900 MHz, thought I can get down to 800, if I'm prepared for glacial response from mouse & keyboard. I haven't listened to 800-SQ recently, must put that on the list of "Things to ReVisit".

Vcore will not drop below 0.75000 V - if I want the thing to start !

Drives are connected to primary IDE controller (master & slave) - second controller is disabled in BIOS.

cPlay settings -> Output: 192 KHz; Buffer: Tiny; Resampler: SRC/145 dB

Juli@ settings -> Driver: v1.10 (XP, 2004-05-20); Latency: 64 samples (stubbornly, this driver will not do 48 without severe distortion !); S/PDIF out (copper) via custom BNC connector > DIY cable ("SUNHER SWITZERLAND RG 302/U 75 OHM" proclaims the outer jacket)

Cheers,
Grant

That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!

 

Cplay experts... here is a question ..., posted on May 7, 2012 at 13:40:36
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ...when you run native sr (44 at 44 or 176 at 176 for example)but choose sox with the alias box checked does that mean you are eliminating the digital filter?

 

Actually all you need is MULTIPROCESSOR, posted on May 7, 2012 at 13:50:13
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 You will not be able to access GROUP POLICY EDITOR in MMC but it does not seem to matter.

Once you get to cPLAY and check AWE, DIAGNOSTICS will say AWE SUCCESSFUL - so who knows when and if AWE is ever really successful! It was written that if you asked for AWE and it was "not there" cPLAY would exit. Who knows ...

None of the rest is needed unless you just want it.

The system will work fine.

One nice thing about an nLite XP Pro install is that you can usually delete all of the unnecessary stuff at one time.

 

something fishy.....?, posted on May 8, 2012 at 07:50:54
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 On my new nLite install everything seemed fine.

-Made the cics optimizations; done AWE (had to allow more user assignemts for that in mmc)....but cMP is not performing it´s "kill explorer" duty correct.

Booting XP and clicking the cMP icon, the XP-mode-background does not disappear. First when the system is set to boot into cMP mode, it works (sort of).
When rebooting I get the msg:
"cMP.exe DLL initizaltion failed.
The application failed because window station is shuting down"


The running of the blue cMP statusbar (below right) does seem rather shortened too....

Any ideas of what´s missing ?

Thanks for your consideration.

L.
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Configuring with nLite, posted on May 8, 2012 at 11:28:52
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 I can send u the Batch files if u need them. Let me know..

Junaid

 

RE: textfile .oem ?, posted on May 8, 2012 at 11:43:23
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 When u create an NLite disc, opt to create the installation in a folder on the desktop instead of burning the image immediately to a cd. The folder will contain a sub-folder named i386. It's inside this folder that the file txtsetup resides. It may be named as txtsetup.oem or txtsetup.sif.
When windows starts installing, it creates a list of files to be copied for installation. It is from this txtsetup file that it gets info of what to install & what not to. You can edit this file using notepad & remove or add any file you wish to. At first, it may seem a bit confusing. Just open the file with Notepad & look at its contents. You will, in no time, understand how the data in it is written to instruct windows to install which file in what directory. You can customise your xp install just by editing this one file. But before that, u need to be certain as to what set of files actually need to remain for your cMp installation to work without throwing up a missing file error. Just a bit of homework & you are good to go.. After editing the file, u can then burn the image to a cd to start installation as usual...
Serge & Jack have done an outstanding job of taking cMp to a level which might have seemed impossible for even a software techie to accomplish. Great job ;)

Junaid

 

Thanks ! -very helpful. N/T, posted on May 9, 2012 at 01:44:53
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 .
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

Another tweak for the G31m mobo's, posted on May 10, 2012 at 15:25:05
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Under bios you will find 'On Chip Frame Buffer Size' and there are 2 options. Default is 8mb and the other option is 1mb. Does that mean you free up 7 mb of memory? I think you free some up. When I went the 1 mb option and clicked on settings for cplay I show more ram available for system than with the default setting. Immediately it sounded a lot stronger. For those who believe in burn in...after listening for 7 hours it seemed a lot better (yea I know maybe I'm adjusting to it). Either way a nice freebie tweak for those of us that have these or similar mobo's with this bios option.

 

cPlay resample settings, posted on May 23, 2012 at 20:16:47
orediger
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: February 18, 2012
 I have the JW XP setup and with 44.1 to 44.1 playback I find that the resample settings in cPlay make a big impact to the SQ. Apparently the DSP is still processing the playback even though the sample rate is not being changed. I thought this would be bypassed. Is there a way to set up cPlay so that the DSP is not processing the file or is this just part of the way cPlay works?

 

RE: cPlay resample settings, posted on May 25, 2012 at 00:39:23
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hey orediger,

What is your concern actually ?

Popular said, the DSP is the software engine that turns the file into buffer packages to be sent to the ASIO device (juli@). This cannot be circumvented, and DSP is in essence tha core of any playback software.
The preparation/processing that cPlay also performs, is the loading of the file into RAM....is this what you mean by "processing" ?

You must understand that a ASIO memoryplayer like cPlay, is NOT just streaming samples away in a continous flow, but rather transfering packets of data (buffers) to the juli@, for further "assembly" into a time critical signal flow.

When not upsampling, cPlay does not alter the data. In this case the unique upsampling technique of cPlay is circumvented.

Does this clear your question ?

kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: cPlay resample settings, posted on May 26, 2012 at 18:15:36
orediger
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Rocky Mountains
Joined: February 18, 2012
 Thanks for the reply, that does clear things up. I also went back and reread the CMP2 homepage discussion which explains the settings in detail. I still hear a difference in the sound with changes in the SRC/SOX settings even though I'm not upsampling, subtle though.

 

RE: Cplay experts... here is a question ..., posted on May 26, 2012 at 19:31:16
erin
Audiophile

Posts: 31
Joined: May 29, 2010
 http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CPlay.Guide

Its explained here.
It only stops aliasing in frequencies above the passband of audio.
I check the box because on my system this sounds better, but for no other reason.

 

Do 16 bit files get converted to 24 bit when upsampling, posted on May 26, 2012 at 19:48:39
erin
Audiophile

Posts: 31
Joined: May 29, 2010
 So when I upsample a 16 bit 44.1khz file to say 88.2khz, does the data also get converted to 24bit, or does it stay at 16 bit.
I am referring to the data on the spdif stream. Does anyone know for sure what happens?
Thank you.
Erin

 

Further comments on JW Windows system after a month or so, posted on May 31, 2012 at 08:37:56
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 One of the things that really sounded great right after implementing the Jack Wong system was the impressively strong dynamics and bass. However I had no idea what my system was capable of in the bass until I started implementing better feedback isolation techniques. Isolating every power supply not only helps but helps a lot. But isolating power supplies in a high quality way really opens up the soundstage. I have 3 Hammond 193L transformers in my system one on my dac, one on my crossover, one on my mid bass amp. When I repositioned the bass 193L to the input of my power supply chain (Running Springs ---> Shunyata Hydra and an assortment of Innovolt devices) I broke a bottleneck. Now when I added more high quality isolation devices the dynamics and bass ascended to unheard levels. There is a lightness to almost every big classical file I play until the real thing comes and when it comes it is really staggering. Surpringly the highs take on more reality too, that clear eyed ever soaring effect. This is not trivial. I think the moral of the story is when you move the needle in the system performance (and the JW system certainly does) you need to address all prior system performance attributes/assumptions. Going to a live performance of a world class orchestra also helps to highten the senses in the pursuit.

A big thank you to Jack Wong for making this system performance possible.

ps: Isolating the hammonds also yields improvements.

 

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