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cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO

41.183.0.21
Posted on May 5, 2008 at 12:31:58
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cPlay

The open source high-end audio player using ASIO

May 2008

cPlay delivers high quality audio playback using ASIO 2. Playback is achieved using any ASIO compatible soundcard. cPlay is a minimalist audio player using the latest high quality SRC resampler (Best Sinc SNR 145.68db or 121.33db) or SoX (VHQ or HQ). cPlay's design offers state-of-the-art ASIO-only playback and caters for touch screen users. Installation, setup and use is easy. cPlay is built in c/c++ and operates on Windows XP SP2 Professional (32 bit).

FEATURES

  1. Resampling is sourced from LibSampleRate (version 0.1.5) and SoX 14.2.0 under GNU GPL license. LibSampleRate is aka SRC (Secret Rabbit Code) and supersedes the version as used in foobar2000. Best Sinc converter now offers a SNR of 145.68db or 121.33db (versus 97db). SoX VHQ offers better than 170db SNR. Resampling is bypassed when input rate matches output.

  2. Supports Steinberg's excellent ASIO 2 and is backward compatible to prior ASIO versions (as required by ASIO drivers).

  3. Offers high quality 64 bit double precision digital volume control (in 0.5db steps). This can be bypassed.

  4. Playback is achieved through .cue, .wav or .flac files. cPlay loads entire .wav or .flac (decoded) into RAM before starting. Playback is done directly from cPlay's internal buffer. Cue playback requires .cue files as created by EAC (single or multi file standard).

  5. Ensures efficient CPU resource utilization allowing for low specification processors or high levels of upsampling. This means CPUs can be underclocked / undervolted.

  6. Supports up to 3 ASIO soundcards with each having up to 100 output channels.

  7. Advanced optimizations are applied (if available from ASIO driver) during playback.

  8. Best results achieved when using cMP (i.e. cMP). This allows for low level Windows optimizations. Use cMP release 1.0 final or later as this allows for bypassing RAM load in cMP (set RAM Load in cMP Settings to No) otherwise wav file is RAM loaded twice. cPlay allows for both svchost and lsass to be suspended during playback thus reducing the Windows footprint. Only exception is EMU's ASIO driver which requires both (svchost and lsass) to be operational. Set cMP's Optimize setting to Critical.

  9. Full remote control is achieved with cMP: offering volume control, track navigation, next/previous and stop/eject via (wireless) mouse.

USER MANUAL

Visit cMP website (http://www.cicsMemoryPlayer.com) for more details and setup.

Screen Shot




GETTING STARTED

Download cPlay's installer here (1.3MB). Installation and startup is straight forward.

If you don't have an ASIO compatible soundcard, use ASIO4ALL. Note that ASIO4ALL does not support channel mapping (use default) and rarely handles above 48k sample rate.

Your feedback will help guide cPlay's future development. Source code (4.1MB) is available via email.

 

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STEPPE_16_Full-MONTY: HELP !! Can't Drink the Cool-Aid !!, posted on October 17, 2011 at 21:26:49
gjwAudio
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Location: Toronto
Joined: March 11, 2006
 Based on Serge's plan, I was hoping to finish up the "path to deletion" and Drink The Cool-Aid along with theob - yes, I was willing to steppe out of the comfort zone of cMP (and use of the keyboard), and sample the Gold at The End of The Rainbow (ie: cPlay-only in a stripped OS).

Aw... shucks - no, keyboard, no cMP, No Nuthin'... except a message on a blank screen stating:

"cicsMemoryPlayer.exe - Unable to Locate Com... This application has failed to start because WINSPOOL.DRV was not found." Hmmmm... not good.

My only thought is the OS is stuck in cMP mode, and now that critical files are gone, it's Death to All Music (btw: I NEVER use XP mode, since the SDD is serviced by connecting it to another computer, so I haven't tried it during the Daze of Deletion).

At this level (STEPPE_16, Pt1), I can't get back into XP mode, and therefore the Windows desktop is unavailable to me (from where presumably I must launch cPlay for the Full-MONTY experience). I suppose somewhere along the STEPPEs we lose the ability to switch between XP & cMP modes... does anybody know which files are responsible for this behaviour ?

What settings do I need to make before clobbering the OS with Pt2 of STEPPE_16, so that I have "something" to play with (ie: cPlay) ?

Thank you to everyone who's participated in this cMP2 Resurgence, your contributions make the world a better (sounding) place !

Cheers
Grant

That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!

 

my 2 cents, posted on October 17, 2011 at 21:37:05
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Ok this is probably unfounded since I have just completed steppe 2 or 3, but I wouldnt be surprised if the "original" unaltered recipe is the best.

Here is why. Remember that in cplay developments there would always be a fundamentally new release and invariably it would be super clear and detailed but invariably many would go back to the "warmer version". And then a new version would warm things up?

I think cics got to the point where he went too far in the warm direction (IIRC that was 38) and then 39 balanced the thin detailed sound with the warm sound. And we were all happy best of everything.

FOr those who are getting that detailed "unmusical" sound, could you try v38 and see what happens?

Said another way I think cics probably figured out how to change the sound and ended with the most balanced player he could based on our feedback. Now we might have changed that balance with all the files we deleted and other things.

I think this shows us all the hard work he did to get things where he did. If you think about the things that go into his recipe it is amazing the effort it would take to figure out all that and listen to the results.

Now the skeptic in me would like to say something. Perhaps this whole thing has just been a funny exercise in the placebo effect??? Certainly if you read some of the posts where people heard or didnt hear things and then got some feedback and suddenly heard things it does make one wonder.

And how many of the recent epiphanies with steppes mods are just the fact that by the time you get a step finished it is 2am and everyone knows things sound better then anyhow??? :)

And I wouldnt hold my breath for any new release from cics.

Skeptic off.



Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 17, 2011 at 23:20:09
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Yes. That's exactly what I feel, has happened. I am not saying that the steppes had all downsides. I guess most people have not clearly understood my last two posts (U turn, & theory vs Practicals ). I certainly agree that steppe 5 has a very open & clean sound. In fact I had again n again suggested people to move back to steppe 5 & analyse (in my posts last week). If u read my posts carefully, u will understand what I'm trying to say...
Steppe 5 was the best of "The Steppe Regimen"... It was the most balanced since the deletion process commenced. BUT... when one goes back to the unaltered cics recipe, u will immediately realise that there is SO MUCH that has been lost till steppe 5 as well. It's not just the Air & Openness that we have set up the cMp for. I too loved steppe 5 a lot TILL i woke up to the Original Optimised cMp.
WE FIRST HAVE TO GET THE BASICS RIGHT !!!!!!
Most inmates have never bothered to even play with the cPlay settings elaborately. There is so much in them. Everything including the buffer, phase, SoX, VHQ, HQ, tuning with alias checked/un-checked, all the above settings done to 95.0 or 96.0 & so on, Intermediate 10,15,20,minimum,maximum.... Without playing with all these combinations, how can u get the Basics right for YOUR system. Every combination of these settings change the way the Vocals blend with the Midbass, with the Highs transforming into sibilance, with the definition of instruments vs their spacing, the presence of instruments vs their imaging etc etc. With just the above cPlay parameters, there are nearly a hundred or more combinations. And every combination effects the overall nature of the Tone & it's presentation. As I have been doing this since the past 2-3 days, I am surprised how I had lost track & deviated from all this. There is so so much that is lost, yes LOST, not just thinned down or changed. The sound totally lost it's FULLNESS, BLEND, IMPACT, DELICACY, & most of all MUSICALITY...!!
And one more thing I really find funny & totally impractical in this forum. The cMp is a player, NOT an active equaliser or Room Corrector with which u can cure all your other faults. Instead, people here are trying to use just this ONE piece of their equipment & expecting everything else to benefit from it. This is totally wrong. For eg. No Room in the world has a totally flat frequency response. Every single room has Different Modal resonances, reverberation times, Peaks & Nulls. These are acoustical problems, & should be treated Acoustically. Just because one has a standing wave at 400Hz in his room, & a thin sound in some Steppe with less Mid-bass may compensate for that peak, he treats it like a saviour. Acoustical issues need to be treated acoustically & electronic issues must be treated likewise. If we could get EVERYTHING out of cMp, why would we ever upgrade components, speakers, interconnects, power cords, Acoustics or isolations. This is the basic mistake of most people in this forum. They are using this one cMp dart to hit on every issue they may have elsewhere...
Get the basics correct, then move on with other things....

Junaid

 

RE: STEPPE_16_Full-MONTY: HELP !! Can't Drink the Cool-Aid !!, posted on October 18, 2011 at 01:52:13
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Try restoring explorer.exe, winspool.drv(to both system32 & system folders) & olepro32.dll. I hope u have'nt deleted shutdown.exe as well.
Since u are unable to boot from ur hard-disk, i suggest u hook it up to another computer as a slave & restore the above mentioned files by navigating to the folders. Also deleting some of the contents in the Win_SxS folder are responsible for malfunctioning of Xp. Im surprised that even after reading so many posts, u have not taken a back-up of ur partition before u went ahead with the deletions...

Junaid

 

Mihaylov's list, posted on October 18, 2011 at 04:45:02
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 As mentioned in my posts, I would not be following the deletion route anymore. But since Mihaylov has posted his set of tweaks, I thought I would make a Batch file for his list as well, so that inmates could benefit from it. I have managed to make the Batch for his list today. Anyone interested may email me....

Junaid

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 04:55:32
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Dawnrazor, I have had that same train of thought at several points in this group pairing down party. Yet at other points, I feel pretty sure I hear something better for real. It is complicated by all the factors that cause us to like several different renditions of the music under different condtions internal and external(e.g.,group enthusiasm) at one time or another--the mood, what was heard last, the hour, expectation, hobby-horses, what we had for dinner, etc.

Jolida, I for one got all along what you say about step 5 and then your U turn. Taste and personal preference play an inescapable role in all this. Also, you are just as subject to subjectivity, bias, group influence, etc. The passion of your conversion back to optimized cMP makes me wonder. So does your suggesting that many/most of us have not explored cMP and its settings over the years we have followed it intensely thru many versions, many discussions of different settings, etc.

 

GREAT!!!, posted on October 18, 2011 at 05:01:49
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Serge! It's great! I couldn't figure out how and what nls files to remove. I have now only explorer.exe in windows root. I wish only that you post the procedure in a more detailed way. I know this is my sin, also. In System-drivers I have only mouse.drv. Will post my tweaks by weekend. Please, compare them with your own and let's think how to remove crypt*.dll files and security files.
Serge.

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 05:22:16
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Riboge,
I had not invented the stage till Step 5 nor was it me who invented cMp. Cics has put in a lot of effort to get things where they stand now, with his b39 version. It's upto inmates to understand why I initially suggested step 5 & what's actually the reason for me to revert back to the unaltered cics version. There should be some reason for it right? I have not posted it just like that. I have analysed & auditioned all steppes till step 16 & felt that after step 5, things don't stand a chance. This was when I MYSELF reverted to step 5. At that stage, I too was back to step 5. I had absolutely no idea that I would re-check the unaltered version ever. But something made me do it. And here I am. I still like steppe 5 a lot, but when compared with the Original cMp version, it too misses on quite a few things. What I have written In my posts is just MY OPINION. I am not compelling inmates to follow my route. It's their system, which they have worked very hard to optimise. I posted because I felt it's important to share our opinion. And I DID ADMIT that I too got carried away. Dint I mention that in my earlier posts??? Read them again !!! There should be some reason to sit down & write loads of data to make all the batch files & then swaying away from them. Who would do that without a reason. Yes it sure may be subjective, but I repeat "THAT'S MY OPINION".
And I guess u misunderstood my last line in the previous post. I said "get the basics right & then proceed". It did not imply to the cPlay settings. It relates to other issues one may have apart from their cMp, like Room mode problems, interconnect mismatches, & other faults elsewhere in the whole set-up & not to look for their rectification just by compensating for the same through the cMp. U sure must have played around with cPlay settings, but others might not. I'm just throwing light at the area of fine-tuning within cPlay itself, rather than looking for solutions elsewhere.
I hope that answers your question..

Junaid

 

RE: GREAT!!!, posted on October 18, 2011 at 05:47:23
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Serge.
1. "I wish only that you post the procedure in a more detailed way." - I do not know what else particulars are necessary. All that I wrote it is possible to repeat safely in system similar to mine, that is with the same hard configuration and OS Russian WinXP SP2 Pro. (in OS with other language it is necessary to define correctly in practical way the files *.nls and the files from folder Fonts which need to be removed and which to leave). Eeasier to be guided by a necessary minimum of files and folders left in my OS (see my message http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/9/97075.html) because earlier I removed still files which other users could leave in the system (these files were not in lists of tweaks and I removed them at own discretion).
2. The differences between my and your final tweaks will be defined by that I use cMP as shell and you use explorer in this kind. And still I do not use peripheral devices and I use LAN.
The files crypt32.dll, cryptui.dll, secdrv.sys, security.dll are removed w/o problems in my setup.


Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 05:56:10
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Jolida, what I wrote was a caution not an attack. I had read all you wrote before carefully and also with great appreciation. You have done enormous work to the benefit of all. I took you seriously enough to reinstall unaltered cMP and cMP up thru 5 in order to compare to thru16 to try to hear for myself what you were talking about. I was ready to be reborn to plain optimized cMP as you seem to have been, but I found thru5 still sounded better to me. I don't (yet?) perceive what you find missing. I am now comparing thru4+Jolida1,2 to thru5 at kclo's recommendation.

You have shown much to us. It may be possible that we can show something to you...or bring you back to something...or, without there being any disparagement of you.

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 06:37:40
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 At the moment, I am at the plain Original cMp version, trying hard to locate sections which need refinement. The two main areas I find needing attention is as I mentioned earlier, the Upper Bass & the Upper midrange. Rest everything sounds perfect to me. I agree it does not sound as Liquid as step 5, but the offending parameters for it are the ones I mentioned above. Everything else sounds way superior, Correct & Full sized & scaled than step 5, atleast according to me. I have images of All the steppes till step 16. So it's easy for me to revert to any step anytime. And I did so. Back & Forth with step 5 & Unaltered cMp, I find the difference is not subtle, but a lot. If I am to listen to step 5 & revert back to the Original cMp in less than an hour, then I too may get puzzled. Because initially, the Original cMp sounds dry & hard, as our ears will be used to the Open & Liquid sound of Step 5. But when u remain with the Original & listen to it for atleast two days, anybody can sense what has been compromised & to what degree.
As I have posted, the Original cMp too needs tweaking. But slightly & carefully, so as to not let go of it's main qualities. This tweaking may be in terms of settings, file by file deletions, hardware optimisations like capacitor choices (I use Elna Silmic 2 which had a warmer sound than the Oscons), or a newer version of cPlay. I don't intend to do deletions in Full Steps which will take ages to ascertain what contributed to what. Though the file by file deletion is as labour-intensive as the former, it can make me pin down the effect of a single file vs the Cumulative effect of many files in a particular step.
By the way, my cPlay settings as of last evening are as under:-
Sampling rate: 44.1
Buffer : Small
VHQ with alias at 96.0
Intermediate 20
AWE engaged...
When playing any track, & adjusting each parameter shows a very profound effect in it's tonal variation. For eg. When I change the Buffer to Medium along with Intermediate Minimum, the Bass definition changes. So once we, or should I say "I" arrive at the best setting that gives the cleanest Blend I'm looking for, I can then move to the next line of tweaking which may be any of the ones mentioned above.
I do not want to follow the route of starting from step 5 & going backwards. Instead, I move with the Original cMp & go forward incrementally, because I feel it's more closer to the Sound I'm looking for...

Junaid

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 08:00:07
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 You realize don't you that VHQ with alias at 96.0 Intermediate 20 and all that doesn't make any difference when you use 44Khz sr and listen to 44khz sr files. They only apply when upsampling.

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 08:19:27
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Well to me it does most certainly. May be because all my music is 24/96 either from HD-Tracks or ripped via LP in 24/192. None of the Albums in my cPlay library are in the Native CD bitrate...

Junaid

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 08:24:33
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ok fair enough but why would you listen to 24/96 or 24/192 files downsampled to 44khz sr?

 

Now that I have compared..., posted on October 18, 2011 at 08:32:42
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 step 5 to what you call step 4.6 for an hour or so: I find not a lot of difference although with some music I hear a bit fuller bass with 4.6. On the other hand, with some things 5 has more presence and realness. This may be related to what others call "air" or "liquidness" though those are terms I can't easily relate to. Sometimes I get the impression there might be a volume effect, i.e., that the music is a bit louder with 5 though I change nothing switching between them but them. I'll keep comparing.

Jolida is making it clear, if it wasn't already, that so many factors make a difference and that different combinations of cPlay settings, step version or individual item changes, etc, can 'synergize' to reverse or alter these differences for any one system--to say nothing of different systems with different rooms and equipment, etc--that it is like chasing your tail trying to pin down what is best generally or in any linear incremental way.

For instance, I am using network versions of all. That makes a considerable difference in step 5 in terms of reducing the number of .sys .dll and registry entries eliminated. Wouldn't one expect that network 5 and non-network 5 would sound different? Which were you using in finding 4.6 best?

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 08:39:00
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 I knew that question would come up :)
As simple as it is... My Wadia Dac is not an Upsampler. It accepts only 44.1 my friend...

Junaid

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 09:01:53
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ok good answer. :)

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 09:13:08
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Now don't ask me why am I keeping 24/192 files having a 44.1 Dac :)

Junaid

 

RE: GREAT!!!, posted on October 18, 2011 at 09:31:48
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I think I will take another run @ your 'My Tweak' stuff but only after Steppe publishes his new stuff so that they will truly be the last tweak. Appreciate your efforts.

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 11:17:22
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Riboge,

I have had the same experience where I hear an improvement and am all excited. A few days later things seem a bit normal. Kind of a roller coaster at times, but that could just be the tunes I listen too.

Also this is on my headphone rig which is not the best so I am not making any conclusions based on this.

I am totally disappointed though in that my main rig with the icore 3 stuff isnt as good as my headphone rig in terms of upsampling. I cant get over 176k on the new hardware without stuttering but the old one does 192k easily. This makes me wonder if maybe the old hardware isnt better??

Now I think I have to take Ryelands advice and make images of each step. Damn you Ryelands :)

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 18, 2011 at 11:23:51
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 You said: '...A few days later things seem a bit normal. Kind of a roller coaster at times, but that could just be the tunes I listen too...'

Welcome to the world of tweaking. Even after the 'best tweak' I sort of subsume it after a day or so and I'm then ready for the next big thing.

 

I have used both the LYNX and JULI@ cards intensively as digital interface, posted on October 18, 2011 at 13:12:35
hfavandepas
 Hi Rick,

I owned and used the Lynx L22, the Lynx AES16 and the Juli@ digital part for at least over a year and was able too compare them in a cMP setup exactly (!) as per Cics recommendations except for:
- I’m using a LAN connection to my Buffalo NAS where I store my music files.
- the cMP setup was powered ‘hybride style’: Linear PSU -> P4 & Linear PSU -> Pico

All these three cards I only used as a digital interface to my Lavry Black DA10 DAC.

As per Cics recommendations I started with the juli@ digital part with an RCA S/Pdif connection to the Lavry DAC. This sounded okay. But not really better than an RCA S/Pdif connection from a EMU USB 0404 to my Lavry DAC or better than the RCA S/Pdif connection from a EMU PCI 1212 or better than the RCA S/Pdif from a RME9632.

So I looked for interfaces which use an XLR AES/EBU connection as this is theoretically a better connection method being balanced and also transformer decoupled by specification.

So I ended up with the Lynx L22 and the Lynx AES16 connecting via XLR AES/EBU too the Lavry.
Both Lynx cards sound the same too my ears. I could not detect any sound quality differences between the Lynx cards when used as a digital interface.
Connected through XLR AES/EBU both Lynx cards sounded better than the Juli@/EMU/RME connected through RCA S/Pdif. And yes I did carefully check if I was using an 75Ohm video coax cable with 75ohms Neutric connectors for the RCA S/Pdif connection.
Lynx drivers only ad some 2 to 3 latency in the Thesycon DPC Latency on a constant, non-fluctuating level. The juli@ drivers however ad 6 to 10 extra latency, which levels are also fluctuating much more.

Although both Lynx cards through XLR AES/EBU sounded better than there RCA S/Pdif competitors, the differences where cleary audible, but where not shocking. A linear PSU on the P4 has a bigger impact.

Having friends in professional music and audio production, I find myself lucky too being able too hear my favourite music on top notch DA converters and monitor speakers a few times a year. From this I knew that I still wasn’t getting maximum SQ possible from my cMP setup. Of course at every occasion I asked studio technicians about what too change in my setup to get better SQ, but unfortunately I got all kind of different advices. The only consistent advice I got was: what ever you do, it's not your Klein & Hummel O300’s.

So I could not think of any thing else left, than too follow Cics advice and use a good quality Toslink cable between the Juli@ digital part and the Lavry DAC. This was the only advice from Cics which I had not implemented yet. I already had tried a toslink connection with the plastic toslink cable that came with my RME 9632 card, but this was disappointing. So I dismissed a toslink connection.

So I decided too buy a Van den Hull Opto-coupler toslink cable. And whow !!! This was a real jump in SQ. I now finally could hear what Cics ment. After a month of intensive listening I decided too sell my Lynx L22 and AES16.

After a few months I did juli@ sound card modification number 1: Providing cleaner power (picture @10pin header). It indeed toke away some glare in the HF regions.
And only recently I applied modification number 2: desoldering the U1 voltage regulator and feed the Juli@ digital part with a better separate 3.3 V Linear Technolgy voltage regulator with extra input and output filtering of this regulator.

As also reported by others: unsoldering the U1 voltage regulator and feeding the Juli@ digital part with better power, gave a major jump in sound quality. It almost equals powering the cMP setup with a hybride power supply. So a real major step up in SQ.


So in short:
1. in my setup the juli@ digital part is significantly better than a Lynx digital interface, but only when used via a high quality Toslink
2. unsoldering the U1 regulator and feeding the Juli@ digital part with better/cleaner 3.3 volt improves SC significantly.

Hope this was informative.

Mark

 

RE: I have used both the LYNX and JULI@ cards intensively as digital interface, posted on October 18, 2011 at 15:06:43
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Mark!
I recommend to you to make a separate linear supply for Juli and to install RCA (or BNC) connector how is stated in the document (see the link below). Earlier I used just the same as your hybrid power supply and when I did that I wrote above SQ was refined by qualitative leap! I explain it to that the subsystem of Juli's power supply is bad and cannot cope to the right degree with an impulse noise from PicoPSU - first of all Juli's clock suffers from it. In this sense Lynx is better. Unsoldering the U1 voltage regulator is not necessary as it is an additional step of stabilization.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Now that I have compared..., posted on October 18, 2011 at 18:10:25
kclo
Audiophile

Posts: 68
Joined: August 21, 2010
 In my system (no network, USB->battery powered USB isolator->Devilsound dac) 4.6 and 5.5 (steppe 5 up to step j) have the same audio characteristics--analog like and realistic human voice, full bass etc. though the former has a bit more.

But the difference between 5.5 and the full steppe 5 treatment is huge. Yes, steppe 5 is clean, sharp, and the sonic image well defined with a spacious sound stage, but it does not sound natural, esp. the human voice, and the bass is too lean. I come to this conclusion by playing Van Morrison's "It's Too Late to Sop Now" though I guess any good live recording will do. VM,s record has mainly acoustic instruments (voice, horns, strings) and a lot of space information. With the complete steppe 5, the natural acoustic space just collapsed and the horn and human voice very unnatural and artificial.

KC

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 19, 2011 at 02:40:45
kclo
Audiophile

Posts: 68
Joined: August 21, 2010
 Hi riboge and jolida,

I am now back to 4.5 (Steppe 4 + jolida's first batch).

As I come down from the full stepp 5, to steppe 5.5, to 4.6, and now 4.5, its like turning the tilt knob (remember the Quad amp?): the high is reduced and the bass filled up. What attracted us in the file deletion path was that the high frequencies seemed to be more refined as more files are removed. By focusing on the highs we were not aware that the balance was being tilted, and artificiality crept in.

With 4.5, Paul Mccartney's bass in Sgt. Peppers now has the right weight. How do I know? UK pressing vinyl is my benchmark.

KC

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 19, 2011 at 10:44:50
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 "With 4.5, Paul Mccartney's bass in Sgt. Peppers now has the right weight. How do I know? UK pressing vinyl is my benchmark." -
Tell me please you were listening the own digital copy of YOUR vinyl at cMP2? If not then you need to do such copy. Then the comparison will be correct.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

does the Juli@ digital part needs both 5 and 3,3 volt or will it also function on 3,3 V only?, posted on October 19, 2011 at 16:16:14
hfavandepas
 Hi Serge,

Thankx for your suggestion on how too further improve the sound quality from the digital part of the Juli@.

But I do not exactly understand what you mean and what next step you are suggesting.

I already did unsolder the U1 regulator.
So right now my Juli@ digital part looks like this.
Van on filtering, de-coupling, demping, ect

I power it through a newly constructed voltage regulator based on a higher quality LT IC voltage regulator
(Too further improve DC quality I also extra filter the input too and output from the regulator bord. These filters are not shown on this picture)
Van on filtering, de-coupling, demping, ect

My first question is:
- If I cut the 8 PCI traces on my Juli@ digital part as shown on the above picture, will my Juli@ digital part still function?
(it than will only receive 3,3 Volt DC from the external regulator)

Or (second question)
- does my Julia digital part as shown in above picture (with 3,3 voltage from external power source) still need the extra 5 Volt DC when those 8 PCI traces are cut?
So: 5 Volt DC (from external power source) + 3,3 Volt DC (from external power source)?

Mark

 

RE: does the Juli@ digital part needs both 5 and 3,3 volt or will it also function on 3,3 V only?, posted on October 19, 2011 at 17:15:50
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Mark!
I am not sure that Juli receives a power supply from the motherboard only through regulator U1. Probably that some elements on board Juli receive a power supply in the bus wire +5V from the motherboard directly or through other regulators (not U1). Therefore it is necessary to supply them from the external power supply cutting 8 traces on a board Juli.
Most easier to cut these 8 traces and will check up to work Juli. If Juli will not work it will be necessary to connect additional external power supply +5В instead of the power supply from the motherboard.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 19, 2011 at 18:07:24
kclo
Audiophile

Posts: 68
Joined: August 21, 2010
 Hi Mihaylov,

If I do that, then I would be comparing 2 digital transfers (assuming playing both on the same cPlay/cMP platform): one is the CD remastered from the original master tape, and the other is my own digital conversion from the LP.

What we are trying to do here is to test/confirm the validity of the cPlay/cMP platform. To do that I think we need another trusted platform as a benchmark. To me, they are:

1. My vinyl setup with a good pressing as source, Another digital source (a good CD player?) might do as well, but a good CD setup is WAY too expansive. Moreover, a vinyl platform gives a very good contrast as it has a different set of good/bad points comparing to a digital source. And my other benchmark is;

2. Life. Play some acoustic instrument recording recorded in a natural space and ask oneself, is the human voice , etc, more natural in this cPlay configuration comparing to the previous cPlay configuration? Good candidates for comparison are: human voice because we are all very sensitive to it, piano, brass, and strings. I also found that cPlay tweak # 5.5 onward creates an artificial space that sounds quite attractive, but when played a live recording with real space information, the natural sound stage of the recording would collapse.

KC

 

I can answer that!, posted on October 19, 2011 at 20:22:46
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Mark and Serge,

First of all, I can answer the question about whether the Juli@ digital section needs 5v to operate. While I haven't tested it, I determined that 3 of the devices, the HC125AG CMOS Buffer/Line Driver (that appears to enable the switching of the SPDIF input and output signals), the PLT133/T10 TOSLINK output, and the AV73-01L are powered by the 5v. Without the 5v from either the motherboard or supplied by a separate supply, you definitely won't get a SPDIF output from either the RCA or TOSLINK. Actually, you probably won't get any function at all. Even though I cannot find any info on the AV73-01L chip, it sits between the Envy VT1721 (PCI interface) & the XILINX (local controller) and as such, likely plays a very key role in the Juli@'s operation.

See my long, rambling post here for more info: http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=96880

Second, I want to thank you for your impressions on the sonic benefits of various modifications to the Juli@. While I've done a bit with the card too, almost all of my use has been with I2S-connected DACs and not using the SPDIF connection.

Mark, I especially was interested your comments on the benefits of using the Van den Hul Opto-Coupler TOSLINK. I do expect benefits with properly-implemented galvanic isolation from the Juli@ card (and I expect Van den Hul to properly implement it!). But I need to do more investigation on how to best implement it for the I2S connection.

Two asides... one, I have a bunch of caps coming to experiment with additional local bypassing/filtering on the power supply leads to the 'key' devices on the Juli@, the Envy VT1721 PCI interface & the XILINX local controller. Given they have to be very noisy chips, I expect there to be significant performance improvement potential here. Its a pity that one can't easily provide separate power to these chips, but the power runs are in one of the internal layers of the multi-layer circuit board of the Juli@.

Still, I hope this will provide a good improvement above just providing seperate power for the 5v & 3.3v on the Juli@ digital. I'll publish my results in the subthread I listed above.

Then, recently I saw a number of interesting discussions on DIYAudio dealing with wringing the best performance out of the ESS DACs. Many of the ideas and techniques discussed will have application on other DACs. These threads included:


http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/117238-ess-sabre-reference-dac-8-channel-4.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/196474-ess9018-try-new-try-more.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/147817-ackodac-based-es9018-8.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/190033-upgrading-modding-new-oppos-bdp-93-bdp-95-a-2.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/183374-exau2i-multi-channel-asynchronous-usb-i2s-interface-17.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/188902-xmos-based-asynchronous-usb-i2s-interface.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/196049-dual-i-v-stage-implementation-buffalo-ii-iii.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/196552-buffalo-iii-dac-tube-output-stage.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/164294-buffalo-ii-transformers-5.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/feastrex/197223-premium-finemet-transformers.html

Note that some of these threads are pretty long... the most relevent info is in the last several pages of posts. Also great to see Jonathan Carr, the designer of the Lyra Connoisseur electronics participating in these threads.

Again, to both of you, thanks for the very good info!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Serge, an extra thanks to you for your previous publishing of the details of upgrading the clocks on a Juli@. I have a dual clock coming from http://www.fidelityaudio.co.uk/clocks.html and hope to get a good upgrade with it.
Everything matters!

 

RE: Has anyone used both the LYNX and JULI@ cards?, posted on October 19, 2011 at 20:36:41
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Rick,

I thought more about your question of whether the Lynx card would be an upgrade to your use of a Juli@ digital section as an interface to your DAC. After doing some research (including reading Mark's & Serge's comments below), here's some thoughts...


1. If you were just going to use the analog out of one of the cards or the other, one of the Lynx cards would almost surely be better.

2. There doesn't appear to be any easy way to get I2S out of the Lynx card, so you'd be using SPDIF out of it. I believe that a well-implemented I2S is better than a SPDIF connection, so you are ahead using the Juli@ with I2S if it's done right... and I think your K&K Juli@->I2S & the galvanic isolation in the K&K DAC make it a good I2S implementation. So I think you're already ahead.

3. As you noted, the Juli@ is pretty easy to modify and at <$150, not so expensive that you worry excessively about breaking it. So you can do additional things to improve its effectiveness that you are less likely to do to one of the Lynx cards because of their cost (and as best I can tell, higher level of complexity).

4. As Mark noted below, a Juli@ with some basic power mods and a galvanically-isolated SPDIF TOSLINK connection equaled or beat the Lynx cards. You already have equivalent mods on your Juli@ AND a galvanically-isolated I2S connection. So (without being able to easily compare) your modified Juli@/DAC setup should be equaling or beating a stock Lynx/DAC setup.

All of that is to say, you're probably not going to do better with one of the Lynx cards for your setup.

I hope this makes sense!

Greg in Mississippi



Everything matters!

 

To the two Serges - Any chance of a list of files to keep?, posted on October 19, 2011 at 22:49:21
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Junaid is right - would it be possible for either/both of you to show us which files you are keeping?

This would be helpful to those of us taking different approaches to end up in the same place.

Also, Mihaylov was right to bring us back to AUTORUNS. There is much one can do here.

After another rebuild one can see that if one's intentions are to go with file deletions most of the original cMP optimizations are moot. Most can be done with the file deletions without dealing with SERVICES and DEVICE MANAGER and the one's that remain you wonder if they still are effective after the file deletions (in total).

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 19, 2011 at 23:03:06
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Hey kc,
What u mentioned above, is it any different from what I've been saying all this while?? This is what I have been trying to convey ever since I got back to the Original cMp. The only difference is that u are taking a reversed-walk & I took what I would say a reversed-jump...
Now as u are moving incrementally in the opposite direction (which is a good thing), u are getting a sense of what had been compromised. This 'tilt' which is apparent in the music, is a cumulative effect of hundreds of file deletions. So to rectify, or to say "balance" the equation, one needs to pin down the offending files which should-not-have-been-deleted. But as the number of deletions are a lot till step 5, it made more sense, TO ME, to start from the Original cMp, which sounds closer to that "balance" I am looking for.
I agree, & have always agreed, that step 5 sounds very clean & strain-free, but the Scale & Weight that's in the Original, is lost somewhere in the route..
Also, I suggest u do try one more thing at this point. Staying at step 4.5 (where u are now), uninstall the cPlay b39 u have, reboot the computer, install b38, & give it a listen.
I have been listening to five cPlay versions since two days now, starting from b35 to b39. It may seem un-necessary for others to validate what I am doing, by trying all this. I do not intend to post my opinion about this b35 to b39 session, as I feel, or as riboge said, may bias others as well. So try & decide for urself. If not all the five, try b38 atleast...

Junaid

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 20, 2011 at 01:04:09
kclo
Audiophile

Posts: 68
Joined: August 21, 2010
 Hi Jolida,

I am reversing stepwise because of 2 reasons:

1. steppe 4.5 is my earliest backup, so I can't jump any further backwards; and

2. I was very happy with each tweak until after 4.5, or 4.6; somewhere around there is the optimum for my setup, I think, and I want to capture that.

Will try out b38 like you suggested.

KC

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 20, 2011 at 01:22:30
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 That's wonderful. U are close to the Optimum for Ur set up, which is a real bold statement to make. Im glad u feel that way. I wonder what the others are upto. No news about the outcome of Steppe 21 or Mihaylov's list??? Some are at step 5, u are at step 4.5, I'm at where I started (original cMp with b38).
Also I would like to mention one more thing. When I put up my post for the Batch files, I received hundreds of emails even from people who do not post on this forum. This proves that there are a lot of them who are just playing safe & being Spectators of this whole Deletion roulette. I strongly suggest, they too post their opinions so that this discussion would be more elaborate & beneficial...
I agree with Ur other post as well. I'm doing exactly the same since I reverted to the Original cMp (looking for a good Transport or Cd player to assess where we stand now). I hope to get hold of one soon, to double-check the worth of all the pains we have taken in this project...
I'm sure cMp will have it's own Class. Atleast that's what I hope happens :)

Junaid

 

Feedback for Mihaylov's list..., posted on October 20, 2011 at 05:10:44
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Mihaylov,
Since your's was the only list I had not tried, I thought since I made it's Batch file, why not give it a try. I do not know if it's mandatory to do Ur list Only after doing All steppes, or if it's independent in it's effect. Anyways, I gave it a try & this is what I felt....
The Mids had good clarity & also instrument separation is a bit more. The vocals cleaned up. But the Bass goes down a bit losing it's muscle & blend in other instruments, making them sound less-full-bodied than without the deletion. The mid-bass is a wee bit lean as well. The balance tilts slightly pushing down the overall bottom-end BUT not drastically. The other aspects have an overall improvement. All in all, I find only a very less downside, & more of an improvement. If only the bottom-end improves a bit, this will be an out & out success. Worth implementing this Batch. Fantastic list..!!
When I ran the batch file, windows refused to boot missing on one more nls file than the ones mentioned by u & Theob. . I will make the correction in the Batch & re-post it. Also, as expected there was no mouse, keyboard & USB. So I restored their offending files as well. After doing all this, Juli@ was missing files as well, so there are three sections which need updating in Ur list. I will make the changes & run it again to check the functioning of all the above, & send it to all...
Thanks for Ur efforts...

P.S :- the above improvements are evident with the Base as Original cMp & cPlay b38. The list was implemented straight from this stage with only the FILES deleted (I did not delete folders yet nor did I touch the Win_SxS folder or any of it's contents, as it has given me trouble earlier with windows functionality) & without involving any of the Steppes & My (Jolida's) list... I have no idea how it would sound with b39 or with any of the omitted lists included..!!
For Juli@ users, DO NOT attempt to remove files used by Juli@, else it sounds terrible with uncontrolled highs & rough edges in the lower midrange. The files that Juli@ needs to give a balanced sound are :-
In system32 folder :-
1. wdmaud.drv
2. jula.sys
3. JulaAsio.dll
4. JulaPan.exe
5. JulaWdm.sys
6. ks.sys
7. ksproxy.ax
8. ksuser.dll

In System32/Drivers folder :-

1. drmk.sys
2. jula.sys
3. JulaWdm.sys
4. ks.sys
5. portcls.sys
6. stream.sys

Junaid

 

Asynchronous USB with cPlay, posted on October 20, 2011 at 07:24:23
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Dear Forum,

Does anyone have experience with asynchronous USB DACs using NO ASIO-driver software ?

Certain DACs nowadays offer asynchonous protocol without drivers (Zodiac, Arcam, etc.) but nothing is mentioned about true ASIO.....

Does cPlay recognize these DAC as native ASIO devices ?

Please tell us about your experience.....



kind regards


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

K&K Audio's HDMI I2S device DOES offer Galvanic isolation, posted on October 20, 2011 at 07:47:28
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 for those interested.

Dave Davenport assures me this is the case.

He says the "isolation" is affected at the RECEIVE board.

 

RE: K&K Audio's HDMI I2S device DOES offer Galvanic isolation, posted on October 20, 2011 at 07:51:21
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 So it has a send and receive board & how much $?

 

RE: To the two Serges - Any chance of a list of files to keep?, posted on October 20, 2011 at 08:28:10
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 "which files you are keeping?" -
I already two times gave link to screenshots of the system. I give once again.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

A link ..., posted on October 20, 2011 at 10:42:04
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 http://www.kandkaudio.com/digitalaudio.html

Look close to the bottom of the page.

Are you powering your JULI@ with five or three point three volts?

Hopefully five since that would make installation easy.

You already know which pins are which.

I like the fact I can see a longer cable and get the computer away from the amplification. System is absolutely silent other than the rush from my line stage tubes.

 

Hmmm... that doesn't quite agree with K&K's manual..., posted on October 20, 2011 at 11:17:23
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 After researching this subject last week, here's what I wrote here (http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/9/96941.html):

"RE: You think one is better off with SPDIF? - GStew 20:02:11 10/14/11 (0)

In Reply to: RE: You think one is better off with SPDIF? posted by rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com on October 14, 2011 at 07:55:45

Rick,

-SNIP-

Then on galvanic isolation with the K&K I2S connection, while the connection circuits are NOT isolated, the RAKK DAC's I2S input IS. This is from pages 6&7 of the manual... and it has some additional grounding/isolation information that might be useful, but that I need to digest.

-SNIP-

And that your setup already has galvanic isolation on the I2S lines MAY mean that you are already getting better sound quality using the Juli@ than the rest of us with lesser DACs."

This is what they say in the current (3.1) version of the manual:

"For the signal interface, we have chosen to provide a galvanically isolated I2S interface (both signal and ground) on the RAK dac Mark III. This prevents external ground current, potentially containing digital noise, from entering the RAKK dac ground system.

The I2S Receive boards do not have a galvanically isolated power supply interface. Rather, the preferred solution is to provide a totally separate DC power supply. This means a power supply derived from a separate power transformer or a separate (non-shared) winding on a power transformer. The RAKK dac Mark III version 2 Low Voltage Power System provides separate power supplies for the RAKK dac and the I2S Interface Adapter."

They provide somewhat different (and still useful) information in the earlier version of the manual, 2.0. Both are available for download here:

http://www.raleighaudio.com/i2s_interface.htm

This also agrees with the info page 3 of the RAKK DAC manual, available for download here:

http://www.raleighaudio.com/rakk_dac_mark_iii.htm

It may be semantics, but all of this strongly suggests that the galvanic isolation is in the RAKK DAC, not on the I2S interface. This is also strongly suggested by the interchange between Soundchekk & KevinC in this thread:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=kandk&m=8609

I'm not saying all of this to be argumentative, but to point out that according to this information, you ONLY have galvanic isolation using the K&K I2S interface (either from the Juli@ or another source) when using the RAKK DAC. The information STRONGLY suggests you don't have that with other DACs.

Now, without having heard the RAKK DAC, but from the reviews and the information posted about it, I think it is a very fine one and a great choice. So this is not a knock on it... just a caution to people like Theob who might want to get the K&K I2S interface thinking it provides THEM with galvanic isolation for their DAC.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

That deserved its own heading!, posted on October 20, 2011 at 11:27:21
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I found it a minute ago tucked away in an answer to Ted.

Thanks.

It is worth posting three times!!!

Thanks, again,

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 20, 2011 at 14:12:14
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Well. I agree that a proper comparative testing cMP2 is not easy. I just would like to say that in my opinion any CD remastering from old master tapes doesn't sound as good as the good old vinyl Edition.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

Assumption on my part? You are right., posted on October 20, 2011 at 14:34:00
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dave said this in his note:

"Galvanic isolation needs to be done only once and we do it on the Receive side: the Send side is not isolated."

Not having read the manual in a long while I assumed he meant the receive board not the DAC board - both being on the receive end but an essential difference for those using another DAC.

Thanks for making this clear.

I do wish Dave's DAC did not upsample. I do know it sounds very good to me but I have never sampled another DAC in my system since that is basically impossible. I am committed to Dave's stuff.

 

Thank you very much !, posted on October 20, 2011 at 15:15:54
hfavandepas
 Hi Greg,

Thank you very much for joining this thread and providing the answer too my question !

Knowing the answer now, I’m still wondering if it will be worth the trouble of cutting the 8 fingers on the Juli@ that take 5 volt from the PCI slot. How much extra sound quality improvement will there be if I start providing 5 Volt high quality DC power too the Juli@ digital part from an external source?

Right now my Juli@ digital part gets:
- 5 Volt ‘dirty’ DC power from the PCI socket
- 3,3 Volt DC clean power from external source

Providing clean 3,3 Volt DC from an external source gave a very big rise in sound quality !
But will there be again such a big improvement in sound quality when I also switch too 5 volt clean power?

I would be very curious too know if there are any inmates who have compared the following two power configurations on their Juli@ digital part:
* Power configuration 1:
- 5 Volt ‘dirty’ DC power from the PCI socket
- 3,3 Volt high quality DC power from an external source
* Power configuration 2:
- 5 Volt high quality DC power from an external source (with the 8 pci fingers cut)
- 3,3 Volt high quality DC power from an external source

Until now I haven’t red any postings from inmates who did some experiments on this.
Probably most inmates changed over both voltages (5 V and 3,3 V) at once too an external source.
So the contribution of clean power too sound quality from each voltage separately, is still unknown.

I think I will wait for a while and see if there will be any response from inmates who might have done this experiment.

Mark

 

RE: A link ..., posted on October 20, 2011 at 15:16:22
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I put 3.3v onto the juli@ but still use 5v from the mobo. I'm thinking of doing 5v LiFeo4 (2 in series regulated down to 5v).

 

RE: I have used both the LYNX and JULI@ cards intensively as digital interface, posted on October 20, 2011 at 16:15:03
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Hey Mark. I use 5 LiFePo4's in parallel for juli@ 3.3v input. When I was trying to rid my system of metallic noise I briefly tried cut pci fingers and 5 volts from a 12 v lead acid battery regulated down to 5 volts. This scheme did not rid me of metallics but wow did it sound great and I mean great. However for other reasons I trashed the sound card and abandoned external 5 v feed to (a new) Juli@ because I solved the metallic issue. Now I am thinking of going back after the external 5 v feed. Greg has reminded me of how good it was.

 

RE: Assumption on my part? You are right., posted on October 20, 2011 at 18:10:34
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Yah, that's a bit of a bummer... but I'm beginning to think that galvanic isolation for I2S is just a matter of finding the right interface chip and putting it in. The chip on the EXAU21 sure looks that way (although the setup on the RAKK DAC looks more complex).

On the upsampling, it's too bad you don't have a choice. I still upsample to 192 & have compared with each major upgrade of my SW/HW and keep coming back, so I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Being able to try upsampling in the PC versus NOS would be nice. But that would be a significant change to the architecture... I understand why it's not there.

I do think it is one of the better choices available for a DIY DAC in that it includes both ASRC and galvanic isolation. While I think that you can do better than using these techniques, I don't know of anyway to do that without a very integrated, dedicated, and comprehensive implementation. The ASRC and galvanic isolation make it a much more universal device.

I do think that power regulator upgrades might make a difference, similar to adding Twisted Pear Tridents or Paul Hynes regs to a TP Buffalo DAC. But it looks to be a very involved, complicated, and expensive job... it looks to have 10 (or more?) on-board regulators! Good for sound, bad if you want to try to get better sound!

Again, I think it is a good choice. More expensive (especially the output stage) than some of the alternatives (like the TP Buffalo), but it looks like they did their homework and did a LOT of the right stuff to begin with. Like I said, I suspect upgrades are going to be difficult because it looks like it's so good to begin with. As best I can tell, it should be the equal of many DACs 2-4x it's cost as a fairly easy-to-assemble kit.

Of course, I don't have one and haven't heard one, so take that all with a grain!

Greg in Mississippi


Everything matters!

 

RE: Feedback for Mihaylov's list..., posted on October 20, 2011 at 18:11:40
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 I believe that My Tweak should applied after all the tweaks (Steppe, Jolida and me) as final which means the suitability of the system only for audio playback using cMP/cPlay after it (possible view of interfaces of cMP/cPlay I had already given).

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 20, 2011 at 23:09:16
kclo
Audiophile

Posts: 68
Joined: August 21, 2010
 Hi Jilida,

Just tried b38 with steppe 4.6 (with most codec removed or disabled).

Comparing to b39, there is a sort of glare to the high which could make it more compatible with a native cPlay. with 4.6, because of the cleaner high end, b38's high frequencies might seem to be exaggerated. Moreover, the bass is too controlled such that some of the bloom of natural music is gone.

To my system b39 is more natural and is a better choice.

KC

 

RE: my 2 cents, posted on October 20, 2011 at 23:43:09
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 That's good. It's all about synergy. Though I find quite the opposite here. The Highs are very smooth & the Bass needs control :)

Junaid

 

RE: That deserved its own heading!, posted on October 20, 2011 at 23:45:30
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 :)

Junaid

 

Can you tell something about the SQ between 'power situation 1' and 'power situation 2' ?, posted on October 21, 2011 at 02:16:49
hfavandepas
 Hi Theo,

Thank you for your response.

Just to check if I understand your post correctly.

You first powered the juli@ digital part with 3.3 Volt through battery’s, but the 5 Volt was still coming from the pci socket (power situation 1).
Later on you cut the 5 Volt PCI fingers and also powered the 5 Volt from battery’s. So both 3.3 V and 5 V are provided through battery’s (power situation 2)

Now about the sound quality.
Are you saying that changing from power situation 1 too power situation 2 again gave a (big?) sound quality improvement?

Mark

 

RE: Can you tell something about the SQ between 'power situation 1' and 'power situation 2' ?, posted on October 21, 2011 at 02:33:09
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Yes a big sq pop again.

 

Looks like I have too build myself a second voltage regulator. This time a 5 Volt one. , posted on October 21, 2011 at 04:47:39
hfavandepas
 Hi Theo.

Looks like I have too build myself a second DIY voltage regulator.
This time a 5 Volt one.

Building a 3,3 Volt Voltage regulator was my first electronic DIY project ever.
And… it turned out too be surprisingly easy.
I deliberatly build a prototype with only the LT regulator and 2 caps on the PCB.
Like this:
Van on filtering, de-coupling, demping, ect


This construction with P4 connectors allows for easy swithing in and out all kinds of filter types, before and after the DIY regulator.
Van on filtering, de-coupling, demping, ect


And guess what?
In my setup there is no sound quality difference between feeding the 3.3 V DIY regulator with 5 Volt DC coming from a Pico or 5 Volt DC coming from a linear PSU.
Provided (!) ….. that you filter the input too the regulator board.
Ripple rejection of the LT regulator is arround 75 dB at 1000 Hz but only 15 dB at 300.000 Hz.
(the Pico swithing frequency = 300.000 Hz)
But if you filter this 300.000 Hz swithing frequency before the LT regulator,
than there is no sound quality difference between 5 Volt used from the Pico or 5 Volt from a linear PSU.
I (mis-)use a simple Schurter 5500.200 netfilter for this.
Specs see data-sheet: http://datasheet.octopart.com/5500.2014-Schurter-datasheet-2547.pdf
The Schurter netfilter has 2 coupled ferrite based 40 mH inductors inside and filters from 100.000 Hz too 10.000.000 Hz with 50 dB.
When you ad extra (Oscon) caps on the outside, the 2nd order effect (filterslope) can be bettered/altered/tailord

I haven’t used any batterys and thus I don’t know this for sure, but from this experiment (no diffrence between a linear PSU and a switching PSU when the input is proparly filtered) I think there is no need too use a battery as a source for digital components. The noise level only needs to be on a low level. It doesn’t necessarily need to be approaching almost zero.

Since you already constructed DIY regulators before, give it a try and feed your DIY regulator with filtered input from a pico PSU or a linear PSU and compair that too a battery source.

Mark

 

RE: Looks like I have too build myself a second voltage regulator. This time a 5 Volt one. , posted on October 21, 2011 at 06:10:00
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Mark!
Here is the standard schematic of the stabilized power supply unit.



The explanatory notes to schematics:
1. TV1 – the power transformer
2. VD – the Schottky rectifiers
3. C1 and C2 – the filtering capacitors, C3 and C4 – output capacitors
4. С2 and С4 - the qualitative film capacitors with small capacity (for example Wima) shunting electrolytic capacitors for filtering HF noise (the film capacitor capacity is around 1/100 part of the electrolytic capacitor capacity). С2 and С4 are possible not to install in case of use of electrolytic capacitors Black Gate, Elna Cerafine, Elna Silmic, Panasonic FC and similar.
5. R1 – the load resistor providing the minimum load current (5-10 mA) in the psu’s output.
6. U1 – the regulator.

In your case:
the filtering capacitor capacity (C1) should be not less than 4700 µF and C3 should be not less than 470 µF approximately. Oscon does not approach here.
R1=500-1000 Ohm


Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

Some more screenshots, posted on October 21, 2011 at 09:33:04
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 The Everest/AIDA (http://www.lavalys.com/) is very useful test program which can be launched from the cMP shell
(see here http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/9/97080.html)

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

I have asked Dave to clarify, posted on October 21, 2011 at 11:40:45
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 but as I read the article it seems to me that GI has nothing to do with the DAC but how the power supplies are implemented. If the receive board is powered separately from the DAC and the grounding instructions are followed ...

From what I have read I am not getting the benefits of GI - my version of the board has the dreaded DC to DC converter, I hope I can remove it - I was using my same power supply for the DAC for the receive card (a large HYNES supply - same as the one used by the ALTERMANN DAC folks would use instead of a battery.

Have to get another 5 volts BELLESON on the way and hope for a better presentation with the benefits of GI. We'll see ...

When I receive Dave's reply I will post that.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

 

The plot thickens..., posted on October 21, 2011 at 12:34:09
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 LOL.

Sounds like you may have additional SQ improvements available when you separate the supply. I just assumed (stupid of me, I know, but I'm so good at doing it!) that you had the receive card separately powered.

Looking at the manuals for both the I2S interface and the DAC, to me they aren't totally clear and consistent on how that works, but the comments in the manuals plus the post exchange between Dave & Soundchekk made it clear to me.

And then I cheated... I looked at the picture of the RAKK DAC board and could follow the I2S and SPDIF lines coming into the board and see them go through the GI devices (optocouplers or something similar).

On the Belleson, PartsConnexion has them on sale through the end of the month. They are on back-order, but expect a shipment soon... I've already got an order in.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

When I got it there was not a recommendation to power it separately, posted on October 21, 2011 at 13:58:39
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 so I didn't!

I installed it and never considered that anything had changed. How many times to I have to learn THAT lesson?

Getting the converter off the board will make a difference also.

I am looking forward to an improvement (so what's new?).

Just hope there is one!

Still waiting to hear from Dave.

Bye,

 

Do we always need lowest possible power supply noise levels?, posted on October 21, 2011 at 14:20:04
hfavandepas
 Hi Serge,

Thank you for the schematics.
But it is not at all my intention too build or construct a separate high quality DIY linear PSU for several reasons.

1.
I would need too buy a whole lot of extra other materials like: an extra transformer, rectifier diodes, housing/casing, fuse/holder, on/of swith, cables/wires, sockets/plugs, ect etc. I also would have too spend a considerable amount of time too for assembling and constructing a DIY linear PSU.

2.
I don’t think it is always necesarry too strive for lowest possible power supply noise.
I can fully understand the need for the lowest possible power supply noise in analog audio.
But this is NOT ALWAYS necessary for digital circuits.
For example see this article.
http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/rarely_asked_questions/RAQ_tamingADC.pdf
The article clearly demonstrates that lowest possible power supply noise is a ‘very nice thing too have’. But striving for lowest possible noise levels, is not always necessary.
It can also be a waist of time, materials, money, ect.
The article outlines a situation where striving for lowest possible noise levels is not necessary at all. The article explains that in given situation, power supply noise levels only have too stay below a certain level. Only TOO MUCH noise wil degrade performance. Striving for lowest possible power supply noise levels is not necesarry at all (given the situation in the article)

Now back too the Juli@ digital part.
The logic on the Juli@ card will produce noise itself. And the Juli@ card will also receive noise through the PCI-bus from the MoBo.
Considering these noise levels: is it really necessary too construct an external DIY linear PSU with lowest possible power supply noise? Or is it enough/sufficient too construct an external power supply for the Juli@ digital part, that keeps power supply noise levels below a certain level?

However not exactly knowing these noise levels, it is a safe approach too construct an external DIY linear PSU which has lowest possible noise levels. One never can go wrong with this approach.

But, ….. if one doesn’t want too build a DIY PSU or one is not capable of building one with lowest possible noise level, than may be also good results can be achieved when using a LT regulator as a post regulator after a switching PSU or after an off the shelve linear bench PSU.
The filtering effect of the LT regulator, together with pre- and post filtering before and after the regulator, might reduce power supply noise levels sufficiently.

I guess for many inmates building there own high quality, low noise linear PSU, will be a ‘bridge too far’. However they may be capable of construction a simple (post) voltage regulator with pre and post filtering. Constructing such a (post) regulator, with pre and post filtering is rather easy.
(Also there is no dangerous 230 AC high voltage is involved.)

Although when using these simple DIY (post) regulators, power supply noise levels are not lowest possible, the effect on sound quality is nevertheless quite remarkable (!!).

Hoping you are not the only one who is reading my posts, I post my flimsy constructed filters and voltages regulators too inspire other inmates, who cannot build a high quality linear DIY PSU, but who might be able too construct such a simple (post) voltage regulator.
It is defenately worth the effort and costs for materials.

Mark

 

Separate supplies WERE recommended and I followed it, posted on October 21, 2011 at 14:23:00
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 had to look back at correspondence to remember. Used Dave's old DAC supply for the receive board which means it is still using that converter.

Guess I will still make the change to 5 volts and get rid of that converter but I have been enjoying the benefit of GI.

YIKES!

 

Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 21, 2011 at 21:10:55
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 I corrected the list of my tweak in my message here http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/9/96990.html
I returned following files:
c_1252.nls
clbcatq.dll
comres.dll
crypt32.dll
imagehlp.dll
JulaWDM.sys
R000000000007.clb (into folder Registration)
wintrust.dll

because they are used by cMP and cPlay (you can see it in the program ProcessExplorer and Everest launched on "classic" optimized cMP2).
cMP:




cPlay:




The list of running system drivers (from Everest):










Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 22, 2011 at 05:05:07
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Thanks again for the additional info. What I find interesting is that some of your stuff in your new list I either don't have anywhere (could be support for other software you have & I dont) or I do have but its in my temp list and not active because I put it there. Weird.

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 22, 2011 at 05:10:13
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Ted,
Did u do Manage to do his list & listen???

Junaid

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 22, 2011 at 05:27:37
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 No never could get bat file to work.

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 22, 2011 at 05:39:38
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 An example of stuff I deleted but cplay works fine is R000000000007.clb (into folder Registration) and comres.dll. Dont know where I put the Registration folder but I restored comres but observed no noticeable sonic performance change in cplay.

This seams very contaradictory.

Also I'm sure you delted this stuff too but cmp/cplay worked for you.

 

Watts up..., posted on October 22, 2011 at 10:23:12
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Why is everything on a stand-still??? Nobody seems to post anything or share their experiences with their present set-ups or step-ups...
I'm sure there is activity going on back-stage as usual. Or has everybody decided to be content with whatever has been achieved so far ??

Junaid

 

RE: my 2 cents - It does make a difference, posted on October 22, 2011 at 14:51:55
wlowes
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Toronto
Joined: April 18, 2009
 It has never made sense to me, but these settings have quite an effect in my system, even though I rip basic CD's to 44.1, and play at 44.1. I use VHQ into a NOS DAC. If I have a harsh szz at instead of a sssss in female singers, I adjust down to linear and the szzzz turns to ssss. I also cannot check the alias box without losing dynamics. All this and the software is not suppposed to be engaged. go figure

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 22, 2011 at 15:32:20
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Simply I distinguish concepts: saves workability and works as it is conceived by the author cics (it's about cPlay).

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Watts up..., posted on October 22, 2011 at 15:55:33
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Hi Junaid
thanks to your job I'm working around various steps.
Until now I can tell you that in my integrate system ( Ga H67 MA Ud2h B3, i3 2100T, Kingston 1333 1GB, OCZ 64GB, PicoPsu 160 xt feeded by Belleson based linear PSU (like P4 and soundcard), linear PSU non belleson 7812/7805 based to feeds dirty devices, Asus Xonar Essence STX deep modded analogic unbalanced output) I've found that step 7 (XPlite delections) with SOUND and msacm32 spared is really astounding and better of each previous one and, obviously, of the native cMP2.
Now I'm trying to save a OS image for each significant step, using various little SSD (8GB) to test faster differences.
It's an hard and long job
I'll post my follow up
Daniele

 

RE: Watts up..., posted on October 23, 2011 at 02:01:24
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Oh that nice. Just be careful & slow at making A/B comparisons. It should in fact be an A/B/A comparison given a little time...

Junaid

 

Has anyone tried duplicating Mihaylov's "version"?, posted on October 23, 2011 at 09:04:07
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I tried yesterday leaving in what I thought would be necessary to have a monitor and mouse but I must not have any idea how to either.

Just get a blue screen - initially WINDOWS would tell me what it was missing but eventually just blue.

The question is: does one have to come to this incrementally like lowering the CPU voltage or can one just do it all at once?

Any ideas of what needs to be added to Mihaylov's set-up for monitor and mouse purposes and what can be eliminated due to "no network"?

Trying to work backwards but any such help would be appreciated.

Waiting for STEPPE/Serge to show us what his 20mB XP contains!

Thanks,

 

RE: Has anyone tried duplicating Mihaylov's "version"?, posted on October 23, 2011 at 09:40:06
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 If you print out the original My Tweak posting I have gotten as far as half way through Page 4...except I deleted none of the following explorer, notepad, regedit, mouse, browseui, all of the .nls files, crypt32, desk, deskadp, hidserv and I'm happy with the sonics. I thought it was best of best.

 

I meant the screen shots version, posted on October 23, 2011 at 09:44:37
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 FAR more extensive!

 

RE: I meant the screen shots version, posted on October 23, 2011 at 09:56:35
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I never did d/l those what is it? Just say a little more about it.

 

RE: Has anyone tried duplicating Mihaylov's "version"?, posted on October 23, 2011 at 14:56:42
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 1. The monitor works fine in my setup.
2. To works mouse It is nessesary to return all that responsible for usb as minimum - all this I have removed a long time ago. 
3. = Waiting for STEPPE/Serge to show us what his 20mB XP contains! =
This cannot be because only registry (the folder Config in system32) is 15 MB.


Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Looks like I have too build myself a second voltage regulator. This time a 5 Volt one. , posted on October 24, 2011 at 05:00:22
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Is R1 mandatory in the design?? I have made my Linear for the Juli@ long back following this schematic, but without R1. Also the Filter caps I have used are 20000uf Elna Silmic II & output caps are 1000uf Elna Silmic II. The regulator I have used is a Dexa UWB series 3.3v in the linear psu itself & de-soldered the onboard reg on the juli@, & powered it through it's pin 10 & pin 8 straight with this 3.3v linear psu I made...

Junaid

 

RE: Looks like I have too build myself a second voltage regulator. This time a 5 Volt one. , posted on October 24, 2011 at 06:32:02
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 = Is R1 mandatory in the design?? =
No. R1 is necessary for maintenance of stabilisation state of ps when loading is disconnected. For example if you want to measure correctly an output voltage of ps without loading connection.
= Also the Filter caps I have used are 20000uf Elna Silmic II =
You are cool :).

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Looks like I have too build myself a second voltage regulator. This time a 5 Volt one. , posted on October 24, 2011 at 06:43:52
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 :)

Junaid

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 24, 2011 at 06:48:22
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I've gotten about 2/3's thru Mihaylov My Tweak corrected and the sonics are scarey good but I can no longer cut and paste which precludes me from adding new music files from thumb drive to hd or to swap spool.drv in and out so I can run cpuid. So the files that I deleted that caused the problem are somewhere between mprui through rsmps (page 5 of the printed My Tweak). Any ideas which files are the culprits?

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 24, 2011 at 07:57:41
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Suspect files causing no cut/paste are msimg32, psports, msratelc, ntkmlpa, nwapi32, rasapi32, rassapi, rpcns4, rpcss, rsfaps, rshx32, rsmps.

Looking these up on paretolgic gives no clue. Anybody have an idea?

In the meantime I'm enjoying best sonics I have ever had.

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:09:17
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I may have to update music to hdd's on another computer because this really sounds good. I has the air and delicacy but with great bass and it is holographic as all get out.

 

Serge, a few more quiestions, posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:37:53
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I notice the following previous "deleted" files in your system32 - are these files involved with networking?

desktop.ini
FNTCACHE.DAT
imm32.dll
ipsec.sys
msgpc.dll
mswsock.dll
mup.sys
net.exe
ent1.exe
betbt.dll
netmsg.cll
netplwz.dll
netsh.dll
netshell.dll
netui1.dll
netui0.dll
ntlanman.dll
ntlanui.dll
psched.dll
riched20.dll
riched32.dll
wshtcpip.dll

Can these also be removed if one is not using a network?

Are there files that need to be added for a "regular" installation?

Thanks,

Rick McInnis







 

RE: Serge, a few more quiestions, posted on October 24, 2011 at 14:18:49
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Rick!
Yes, you can remove these files if you do not use network (but you should leave the files desktop.ini and FNTCACHE.DAT - they are not related to the network). You can also remove the file tdi.sys.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: I meant the screen shots version, posted on October 25, 2011 at 05:40:07
wlowes
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Location: Toronto
Joined: April 18, 2009
 I went down the same path. My machine was a Steppe16 and unable to run CMP.

explorer.exe was the missing ingredient after this tweek. I put back explorer and then one by one several dlls but ultimately just ended up with teh blue screen and a cursor. I suspect we were intended to run this on a machine locked into cmp, in which case explorer and its supporting cast was not required.

This prompted a complete rebuild. At least now I have multiple partitions so I can take an image before I go down this path again. Now back to cmp, it is surprisingly good, but I believe 4.5 and 16 were better. Until I am satisfied I know how to quickly do a restore, I am leaving it alone.

 

RE: I meant the screen shots version, posted on October 25, 2011 at 06:24:22
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 I feel Mihaylov's list serves as a saviour to the already complete steppe 16. Just run it in cMp mode, using explore, & u r good to go. For users of Juli@, beware of what u are deleting if not using my Batch file. The drmk.sys needs to remain for Juli@ to work...

Junaid

 

RE: I meant the screen shots version, posted on October 25, 2011 at 06:43:17
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Hi Jolida! Are you running Steppe 16 plus Mihaylov My Tweak in cmp mode? Or is it Basic cmp^2 plus My Tweak?

 

RE: I meant the screen shots version, posted on October 25, 2011 at 06:57:54
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Well I have tasted all the flavours of the ice-cream. I must admit that Mihaylov's list does justice to the deletion route. If only could the bottom-end improve, it would be flawless..

Junaid

 

RE: I meant the screen shots version, posted on October 25, 2011 at 07:27:45
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Did you put back all of the files you feel help the bass?

 

RE: I meant the screen shots version, posted on October 25, 2011 at 07:35:38
Jolida
Audiophile

Posts: 329
Joined: June 26, 2009
 Not yet. I've yet to experiment with them. But it needs serious attention. Seems like the range below 200Hz is kinda rolled off to a considerable level. Since the deletion route is at it's twilight, there are not many things left to play around with, except to try un-deleting some that have their effect on the bass. I hope to sort it out some-way or the other...

Junaid

 

RE: Corrected My Tweak, posted on October 25, 2011 at 09:58:38
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Ok did another page of My Tweak stuff dont know if sonics are better but certainly no worse. Although music at same volume settings sounds louder as a result I set it lower and noise seems lower. One thing if others do it my way (one deletion at a time) when booting it takes about a minute longer from xp screen to desktop. Still cant cut and paste but I can delete so all deletions here were done with delete button not cut and paste into a temp file on c drive.


One more page of stuff to go...so far you rock Mihaylov!

 

Theo, go ahead!, posted on October 25, 2011 at 13:07:10
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 ;)
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

Source code, posted on October 25, 2011 at 23:32:40
allanon
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Joined: October 21, 2011
 Hi,

does anyone know how to get the latest source code of cPlay? There is nothing on Sourceforge, and I sent an email to cics but get no reply.

 

New Tweaks part 17, posted on October 26, 2011 at 03:54:31
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. This is Tweaks part 17, and this is what I propose to do:
Remove these files: mscdexnt.exe msconfig.exe chkntfs.exe notepad.exe (there are 2 of them!) taskkill.exe (CMP will kill processes anyway) TASKMAN.EXE (both of them) user.exe asycfilt.dll COMMDLG.DLL dbgeng.dll devenum.dll dmdskres.dll fdeploy.dll hid.dll localui.dll msimg32.dll msratelc.dll nwapi32.dll
olecli32.dll olesvr32.dll olethk32.dll rasapi32.dll rassapi.dll rpcns4.dll rsvpsp.dll security.dll SHELL.DLL untfs.dll wshatm.dll wshbth.dll desk.cpl main.cpl keyboard.drv system.drv secupd.sig ansi.sys drmkaud.sys fltMgr.sys i8042prt.sys key01.sys keyboard.sys mnmdd.sys mssmbios.sys ndistapi.sys secdrv.sys
tunmp.sys stdole2.tlb stdole32.tlb
PLEASE NOTE, that from now on You are without keyboard. So, for the sake ov convenience, mark the keyboard files to be deleted later and go on to part 18.
BUT DELETE the keyboard drivers ABSOLUTELY, funny, but they are very dirty.
Serge.

 

New Tweaks Part 18, posted on October 26, 2011 at 03:55:59
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. This is Tweaks part 18, and this is what I propose to do:
Remove these files: regedit.exe (2 of them?) rshx32.dll spoolss.dll vwipxspx.dll SYSTEM.DRV (from System) also this file, find it with search - d42cc0c3858a58db2db37658219e6400_be532a57-712d-4ba9-81e8-8ab896330805
ntio404.sys ntio411.sys ntio412.sys ntio804.sys ntio.sys
Now THE FOLLOWING FILES! They come from Windows\System32\CatRoot, Serge Mihaylov suggested to remove both CatRoot and CatRoot2 folders completely It's a bold and good measure!. You should probably rather do it his way.
I only post the names of these security catalog files to follow the time order of things. They cannot (if I remember correctly) be removed from your windows. You need to enter tweaked windows and remove these files from other windows install. Say from another HDD.
FP4.CAT HPCRDP.CAT IASNT4.CAT IMS.CAT MAPIMIG.CAT MSMSGS.CAT msn7.cat msn9.cat MSTSWEB.CAT MW770.CAT netfx.cat NT5.CAT NT5IIS.CAT NT5INF.CAT OEMBIOS.CAT SP2.CAT tabletpc.cat wmerrenu.cat. Also, while working from another
Windows. remove the file ega.cpi
Next remove from the Folder Policies:
x86_policy.1.0.Microsoft.Windows.GdiPlus_6595b64144ccf1df_x-ww_4e8510ac
x86_policy.5.1.Microsoft.Windows.SystemCompatible_6595b64144ccf1df_x-ww_a0111510
x86_policy.6.0.Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_x-ww_5ddad775
x86_policy.7.0.Microsoft.Windows.CPlusPlusRuntime_6595b64144ccf1df_x-ww_a317e4b3
Serge.

 

New Tweaks part 19, posted on October 26, 2011 at 03:57:14
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. This is Tweaks part 19, and this is what I propose to do:
Remove these files (some of them have names that can be found elswhere, like desktop.ini, I refer to the files residing in Windows, Windows\System and Windows\system32 + drivers folders):
imsins.BAK setup.bmp winnt256.bmp winnt.bmp control.ini desktop.ini system.ini win.ini bootstat.dat pschdcnt.h rasctrnm.h rsvpcnts.h WindowsShell.Manifest REGLOCS.OLD
setup.inf _default (With MS DOS logo) 0.log bitssetup.log cmsetacl.log comsetup.log DtcInstall.log FaxSetup.log iis6.log imsins.log MedCtrOC.log msgsocm.log msmqinst.log
netfxocm.log ntdtcsetup.log ocgen.log ocmsn.log OEWABLog.txt regopt.log SchedLgU.Txt sessmgr.setup.log setupact.log setupapi.log setuperr.log setuplog.txt Sti_Trace.log
tabletoc.log tsoc.log wiadebug.log wiaservc.log WindowsUpdate.log wmsetup.log XPlite.log SET3.tmp SET4.tmp SET8.tmp explorer (this is Not Explorer.exe, this is Windows Explorer Command with a lens)
After parts 19-20 you should have only 1 file left - real explorer.exe in Windows Root. Only MOUSE.DRV in Windows\System., So proceed to part 20, please.
Serge.

 

New Tweaks part 20, posted on October 26, 2011 at 03:58:29
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. This is Tweaks part 20, and this is what I propose to do:
Remove these folders:
Crypto
from
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users.WINDOWS\Application Data\Microsoft
C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR LOGON NAME NERE\Application Data\Microsoft
and from anywhere in Documents and settings. Go Real Deep!
Manifests from C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS
NetworkService from Documents And Settings. Go deep. Not everything can be removed, get inside the folders and exterminate everything inside.
Remove these files: vga.dll desktop.ini 12520437.cpx 12520850.cpx dssec.dat emptyregdb.dat wpa.dbl mouse.drv VGA.DRV termcap ntimage.gif
esentprf.hxx logonui.exe.manifest ncpa.cpl.manifest nwc.cpl.manifest sapi.cpl.manifest WindowsLogon.manifest certmgr.msc command.com
rsaci.rat AUTOEXEC.NT CONFIG.NT sfc_os.dll.orig graphics.pro bios1.rom bios4.rom v7vga.rom $winnt$.inf oembios.sig instcat.sql himem.sys
ntio404.sys ntio411.sys pagefile.sys activeds.tlb msdatsrc.tlb wdl.trm pagefileconfig.vbs login.cmd
Now our kernel beauty mermaid is really shaved and wearing only her underthings. Part 21 remains to be corrected and part 22 (hat off to Mihaylov!) is to conclude this process.
Serge.

 

New Tweaks part 21 CORRECTED, posted on October 26, 2011 at 03:59:56
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. This is tweaks part 21 and this is the first illogical and strange thing that I promised. Initially it was intended as a tail-end to part 20 but with the possibilities it had opened, I thought I should post it before, especially as it is large and significant enough to be an independent tweaks part. Also I feel that some inmates are becoming restless and possibly bored with part after part of just removing files without a “BIG” advance. Really, inmates, you are wrong because removing those files you are cleaning the ground for future tweaks (17-20). Yes, I know that from part 12 it may sound sometimes slightly grainy. Also I know that some instruments are shifting places – this is because processor and memory are getting less and less things to do and there is less and less electrical phase shift (you may laugh at this explanation, but remember that Cics implemented the phase shift button in the player. He is a far-sighted person and he knew what he was doing), but again I want to reassure that all grain will settle down with the soundscape becoming very clean and smooth.
Now the tweaks part 21. It’s all about BIOS. Not very dangerous, but be attentive and prepare a small screwdriver or the white jumper to shorten the cmos pins if the things go suddenly wrong.
They won’t IF YOU ARE CAREFULL!
Switch off your CMP machine if it is working. Reboot and enter the BIOS setup. If you have GAG31ms2l or, like me, have GA-H55M-UD2H mobo you have a wonderful capability to save bios profiles and load them without any trouble. F11 and F12 buttons serve to do it. So you have entered bios from the state of cmos that you usually listen to your music at. It works rock solid, I presume, so SAVE it now pressing button F11 an name it CMP 001. Exit Save utility and enter PC HEALTH STATUS, find there CPU SMART FAN CONTROL. Enable it and enter CPU smart fan mode. Set the mode to VOLTAGE. Get back to CPU SMART FAN CONTROL and disable it. Below, blued out should remain voltage. Exit PC Health Status.
Next Go to MOBO Intelligent tweaking M.I.T. (on the top). Enter and enter Advanced Frequency Settings (second from the top). Find third from the top Advanced CPU Core settings. Enter it and change all AUTO values to DISABLED
The values and parameters to DISABLE are:
Enhanced halt (C1E)
C3/C6 State Support
Thermal Monitor
EIST Function
Bi-directional PROCHOT.
This will look like core 1, Multithreading - enabled, all other 5 settings DISABLED, not Auto. Mark for yourself C3/C6 state support and CPU Enhanced halt. You will possibly play with them later. Now exit Advanced CPU Core settings, exit Advanced Frequency settings and go to Advanced Voltage settings. My cpu (540) has an in-built graphics core. Hope yours has also. Enter Graphics Core menu and set voltage to 0,650. Press F10, Save, exit Bios, the system will start to reboot, enter bios again set graphics core voltage to 0,625. Save, exit bios and after that let the system completely reboot, but don’t listen to the music. Tell windows to shutdown-restart and enter bios setup again. Enter MOBO Intelligent tweaking M.I.T. - Advanced Voltage settings. With graphics core voltage reduced to 0,625, enter CPU Vcore end set the voltage to 0,68125. Save and exit and enter bios again and so on, set vcore voltage to 0,66875. Save, exit (I hope your system starts, mine does.) enter bios and press F11. Save current settings as cmp super (or cmp 002), exit save utility and back to M.I.T.. Set Graphics Core voltage (don’t mix things) to 0,612, Save and exit, enter bios, set Vcore voltage to 0,65625. Don't change the order of lowering down the voltages! Don’t attempt to go lower with voltages of both Vcore and Graphics Core. DURING ALL THESE TWEAKS YOU SHOULD NOT ALLOW THE SYSTEM TO SHUTDOWN!!! Save the bios values as CMP extreme or cmp003 and now go to M.I.T. Advanced Memory Settings. Set DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) to Expert. And now go to Channel A Timings. Here we tweak timings of our memory as follows:
This is the table of timings and how I changed them (a dash instead of a value means that I didn’t change the value in this time. Dash between values serves to separate restarts (about 8 steps) but not complete reboots) Save by pressing F11 to cmp extreme 2 (cmp003) often and restart but enter bios and go on.
I have a recommended DDR3 Kingston Value Ram in 1GB module. If You have a DDR2 (for previous MS 2l mobo and e7200 processor), your timings are probably tighter.
Especially, if you are lucky to have a LL or even ULL HyperX memory!!! So, use your common sense. Smaller values in timings can be reduced by half and bigger values 3 or even 4 times. But Be carefull.
TRAS 11 - 10 – 8- - - 7
TRRD 2
TWTP 14 – 12 – 10 – 9 – 8 – 7
TRFC 34 – 30 – 29 – 25 – 20 - 20 – 17 – 14
Static TRD - - - - - - - 5
TFAW - - - -7
TRC- - 11 - - - 8
TWR - - 9 - -6 - - 3
You Don’t need to follow this table exactly, but I recommend to follow it more or less.
This is not all. After You have achieved final values, saved as cmp extreme 2 (cmp003), you should know, that the system won't reboot from the “cold start” with these values. So reboot and listen to the music. Let the system burn in for 24 hours. Before attempting to shut down ALWAYS RESTART and ENTER BIOS SETUP. Switching the machine on should start with rock solid settings and only after 5 minutes of playback reboot to cmp extreme and after 15 minutes more to extreme 2. Otherwise the system will fail to start. Press F12 and load CMP001 (your rock solid values). Reboot and then shutdown completely. I Know it is a lot of trouble, but it is worth it. Technically it is like a soft on and soft off with big power amplifiers.
Serge.
P.S. It is best to do this tweak after part 20, but you can do it anytime. The first result will be the soundstage too close and even crowded and in your face, but it will settle to a bliss with boundless depth. The ease and fluency, liquidity and natural tone of reproduction is astonishing. Give the system time to burn in.
Also, You start the system with rock solid bios settings, proceed to cmp002, and after 5-7 minutes restart with cmp003 (use F11 and then F10 buttons). You Switch off in the opposite manner. From cmp003 (extreem) restart from windows, enter bios, load cmp001, boot to windows and ONLY after that shut down.

 

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