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cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO

41.183.0.21
Posted on May 5, 2008 at 12:31:58
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cPlay

The open source high-end audio player using ASIO

May 2008

cPlay delivers high quality audio playback using ASIO 2. Playback is achieved using any ASIO compatible soundcard. cPlay is a minimalist audio player using the latest high quality SRC resampler (Best Sinc SNR 145.68db or 121.33db) or SoX (VHQ or HQ). cPlay's design offers state-of-the-art ASIO-only playback and caters for touch screen users. Installation, setup and use is easy. cPlay is built in c/c++ and operates on Windows XP SP2 Professional (32 bit).

FEATURES

  1. Resampling is sourced from LibSampleRate (version 0.1.5) and SoX 14.2.0 under GNU GPL license. LibSampleRate is aka SRC (Secret Rabbit Code) and supersedes the version as used in foobar2000. Best Sinc converter now offers a SNR of 145.68db or 121.33db (versus 97db). SoX VHQ offers better than 170db SNR. Resampling is bypassed when input rate matches output.

  2. Supports Steinberg's excellent ASIO 2 and is backward compatible to prior ASIO versions (as required by ASIO drivers).

  3. Offers high quality 64 bit double precision digital volume control (in 0.5db steps). This can be bypassed.

  4. Playback is achieved through .cue, .wav or .flac files. cPlay loads entire .wav or .flac (decoded) into RAM before starting. Playback is done directly from cPlay's internal buffer. Cue playback requires .cue files as created by EAC (single or multi file standard).

  5. Ensures efficient CPU resource utilization allowing for low specification processors or high levels of upsampling. This means CPUs can be underclocked / undervolted.

  6. Supports up to 3 ASIO soundcards with each having up to 100 output channels.

  7. Advanced optimizations are applied (if available from ASIO driver) during playback.

  8. Best results achieved when using cMP (i.e. cMP˛). This allows for low level Windows optimizations. Use cMP release 1.0 final or later as this allows for bypassing RAM load in cMP (set RAM Load in cMP Settings to No) otherwise wav file is RAM loaded twice. cPlay allows for both svchost and lsass to be suspended during playback thus reducing the Windows footprint. Only exception is EMU's ASIO driver which requires both (svchost and lsass) to be operational. Set cMP's Optimize setting to Critical.

  9. Full remote control is achieved with cMP: offering volume control, track navigation, next/previous and stop/eject via (wireless) mouse.

USER MANUAL

Visit cMP˛ website (http://www.cicsMemoryPlayer.com) for more details and setup.

Screen Shot




GETTING STARTED

Download cPlay's installer here (1.3MB). Installation and startup is straight forward.

If you don't have an ASIO compatible soundcard, use ASIO4ALL. Note that ASIO4ALL does not support channel mapping (use default) and rarely handles above 48k sample rate.

Your feedback will help guide cPlay's future development. Source code (4.1MB) is available via email.

 

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RE: Secret Rabbit Code -new version ?, posted on June 4, 2011 at 04:21:07
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Leif,

Looking at the release notes that version is not new at all...February 2009.

Also I am no expert but the release doesnt really seem to be new, but fixes some bugs on 64 bit machines and some compiling issues.

I am hoping that cics would have seen these and probably found it unnecessary to change.

But I could be wrong. I was probably hounding him with some silly install questions at the time :)

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

compromise,compromise?, posted on June 12, 2011 at 00:37:10
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 Hi,
One thing that I don't like with the cmp2 is that it doesn't allow for audio streaming from a NAS. I can understand it SQ wise but not convenience wise.
Therefore I wonder IF letting the network stuff active to copy/paste the intended-to-be-listened-to audio files from NAS to SSD (a partitioned solid-state HD with system and programs on a small partition and a 'music tank' on a different partition)could be an alternative as far as SQ?

 

nope ! -no compromise, posted on June 12, 2011 at 01:15:24
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hey Golo,

There is in principal a difference in a steaming Client as opposed to the SATA driven approach that cMP is laid out for. The keywords are (as you correctly point out) the network services that are pruned out of the cMP....
-but why the fuss ?

If you absolutely want a remote harddisk eSATA could be the answer.

I´ve now configured two maschines, where I use a small SSD for the operating system + programs, and a traditional 1TB HHD for the music storage.
That works flawless and saves you the expensive SSD tech for storage.
Since cMP loads the files to the RAM anyway, there is no compromise in SQ (granted that the drives have separate power supplies).

kind regards



Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: nope ! -no compromise, posted on June 12, 2011 at 03:56:45
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 Thanks for your input play-mate.
Although I didn't fully understood it:
"The keywords are (as you correctly point out) the network services that are pruned out of the cMP" does it mean that even when the player is not 'playing' network services are off, therefore network services have to be forgotten? Does it also mean that remote control from another computer/notebook/iPad/iPhone is not possible?

"I´ve now configured two maschines, where I use a small SSD for the operating system + programs, and a traditional 1TB HHD for the music storage." how do you make your HHD silent?

 

RE: compromise,compromise?, posted on June 12, 2011 at 04:01:28
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I wonder IF letting the network stuff active . . . could be an alternative as far as SQ?

It's a perfectly valid alternative - I've been using it successfully for over two years now.

Incidentally, it allows you to run your cMP^2 box headless if you wish. I and others have compared that to a conventional setup (local KVM but no LAN) and found no SQ difference.

For some time, I ran by copying music data one album at a time to the local HDD (much as you suggest) but have been experimenting recently with streaming from a remote "Server". When I first tried this a couple of years ago, it wasn't a great success but, though I don't know why, it's proving more reliable this time. (Another inmate also gave it a try but hit a configuration issue.)

The SQ is also much improved though some or all of that may be down to other changes such as using an SSD to hold the OS. I don't know why an SSD makes for such a marked SQ change compared to a conventional HDD (there is no disk activity during playback) but it does even though I use a good PSU for the HDD whatever the type. What matters is that it is certainly no worse.

Play-mate is right - an eSATA drive works fine. Another system I built boots from one partition on a 1.5 TB eSATA drive (2TB drives were still pretty expensive when I did the upgrade). It hold its music data on the other and also runs headless.

See link for some more information. HTH

Dave

 

HDD & SSD and combinations there of, posted on June 12, 2011 at 05:37:26
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hey golo

The main objective of cMP2 is to reduce as much activity on the mainboard as possible, because it all contributes to increased power demand and causes potential jitter.
Network capability requires quite a lot of this "activity", also during memory playback, although most of it is operating in the background.
....that´s the simple reason to prefer a SATA drive instead of NAS.

My HDD is dead silent, but vibrates a little.
Therefore is it de-coupled from the case.
I consider the noise so extremely minimal that it´s not an issue.

kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: HDD & SSD and combinations there of, posted on June 12, 2011 at 06:36:06
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 Thanks play-mate

 

RE: compromise,compromise?, posted on June 12, 2011 at 06:39:21
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 Many thanks Ryelands

 

RE: compromise, compromise?, posted on June 12, 2011 at 06:57:36
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Many thanks Ryelands

You're very welcome. BTW, I've just remembered that hfavandepas had a post on the same topic a few days ago. I can't find it right now but it's worth a search for as it included some detail. He seems to like the arrangement though I don't know if he runs his box "headless".

 

I wouldn't worry soo much about a LAN connection, posted on June 12, 2011 at 19:24:17
hfavandepas
 Hi Golo,

I wouldn’t worry so much about using your LAN socket as a source. Why do you feel a LAN socket is such an inferior source compared too a HDD?

I know that the communis opinio amongst audiophiles is that using the network function degrades sound quality. But I never read very detailed explanations as too why this is. I even dare too steer up some discussion about this subject because the communis opinio doctorum about this is not so negative at all. In Pro Audio LAN has no bad reputation at all.

Why should retrieving an X amount of bits from a LAN socket, be more troublesome for sound quality than retrieving that same X amount of bits from an HDD? Or why would it be inferior compared too retrieving that same amount of bits through E-SATA, USB or Firewire ?

Either way the transportation of that X amount of bits will cost CPU activity, will use I/O chips and logic, will produce HF noise by the electronics involved, will use current and cause voltage sacks, ect, ect.

So why would taking that X amount of bits from a LAN socket be so inferior too taking them of a HDD? In my opinion a HDD is about THE WORST source too get your music bits from. A HDD is one VERY BIG (!) source of conducted EMI pollution, it is current hungry (voltages sacks), it vibrates, it produces heat, ect. As a source I would choose a LAN socket over a HDD any day.

Transportation of the bits along the MoBo.
I’m also not very much convinced that transporting the bits from the LAN socket via the PCIe bus too the ICH7 intel chipset, is so much worse for Sound Quality than transporting those same bits from a HDD through the SATA controller too the ICH7 Intel chipset. Same question for transporting those bits through E-sata, USB or Firewire too the ICH7 chipset.

All these methods use I/O chips and logic, use PC resources, produce and conduct noise, use energy, etc, etc. So I would really like too see/read a detailed article which explains too me how and why one concept or method is superior over the other with sound quality in mind.

From all 4 concepts/methods too connect a HDD too a mobo (E-sata, USB, Firewire, LAN), I think the LAN connection might even have the best EMI-rejection coming from the HDD.

So if you already have a SSD in your cMP and you must connect a HDD too your MoBo for extra storage, I would seriously consider a LAN connection. HDD’s produce A LOT of EMI (do some google-ing on: EMI + Harddisk) and connection through LAN might have best EMI rejection.

Also one way or the other, those bits have too be transported along the MoBo from a source too the ICH7 chipset. As I haven’t seen any good articles about which concept/methode is best for sound quality when transporting the bits along the mobo too the ICH7 chipset, I also trust my ears.
When assigning a fixed IP-address, cMP can make use of LAN with only 1 extra service running (workstation). Transportation of the bits along MoBo from the LAN-socket too the ICH7 chipset probably doesn’t generate more noise than other transportation methods do (USB, Firewire, e-SATA, ect), because when I use LAN I don’t notice any degradation in sound quality.

Mark

 

RE: compromise, compromise?, posted on June 14, 2011 at 00:42:45
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 Thanks Ryelands,
I'll try to contact hfavandepas
Cheers,
Golo

 

RE: I wouldn't worry soo much about a LAN connection, posted on June 14, 2011 at 01:31:26
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 Hi hfavandepas,
Thanks for answering.
[Why do you feel a LAN socket is such an inferior source compared too a HDD?] Because CICS told it. Although my question was referring to a SSD not to a HDD.
Anyway my knowledge in computer things is so poor (I don't even know what a ICH7 chipset is!) that I can't make an opinion on my own. That's why I'm asking the experts! And I'm very happy of your answer that's saying that by using a LAN connection it shouldn't degrade SQ.
Therefore is there a 'good' way of doing this LAN connection or is it just inserting an Ethernet card in the computer without much of fiddling around?
I've read that by sending RAW wav files makes the player to work less (comparing to sending wav or FLAC files) therefore to increase SQ. Is it true?
I've got plenty of other questions to ask but I don't want to overwhelm you with them from now.
Let be assured that I've greatly appreciated your answer as, as we say in French, 'you call a cat "a cat"' ie you've got your feet well down to the ground.
It was a pleasure to read you,
Cheers,
Golo

 

why not just try and see if you like it. I'm with Ryelands: it's a perfectly valid alternative., posted on June 14, 2011 at 04:33:51
hfavandepas
 Hi Golo,

Well Cics is right. Any extra activity in your cMP setup that is not needed too process your digital audio stream will most likely affect sound quality because these extra activity’s use hardware, use PC and processor resources, involved hardware produces noise, causes voltage sacks, ect. So when LAN is not needed: don’t use it and disable hard- and software.

But I red your question like this:
* What too do when my SSD is too small too store (a copy of) all my music files?

Your question probably arises from having not enough storage capacity on your SSD. Otherwise you just could simply copy all your music files too the SSD and your problem was solved. But probably your SSD has not enough storage capacity, so you are considering other options.

Best option of course would be a bigger SSD or an extra SSD, but that is not what you are considering. You are considering the option of connecting a HDD through LAN.
But you are worried about the negative affect this LAN connection will have on the sound quality of your cMP setup. You are right. Using LAN will impact sound quality negatively very slightly.
But every other option, will also impact audio quality negatively.

If adding more storage capacity through extra SSD capacity is not an option, I read your question like this:
* which option for extra HDD storage capacity will least impact sound quality of my cMP setup?

You can connect extra HDD storage capacity through:
1. a second SATA channel on your mobo (internal sata connection port)
2. eSATA (external sata connection port)
3. USB
4. Firewire
5. LAN.
All these 5 methods will impact sound quality of your cMP negatively.
But which of the above 5 options will least impact sound quality of your cMP setup?

Option 1 and 2 are out of the question since you already know how big the negative impact on sound is when you connect a HDD through SATA in your cMP setup.
Leaves options: 3, 4 and 5.

The whole point of my previous post was that I don’t see why a HDD connected trough LAN should be such a bad choice for sound quality. Method 3 and 4 also use I/O chips and logic which generate noise and pollution, also use processing resources, alsoo draw current which causes voltage sacks, ect, ect. I never read any detailed articles that paint a bigger picture on why and how a HDD connected through USB or Firewire is superior for sound quality than when connecting it through LAN.

So just trust your ears when choosing between option 3, 4 or 5. So why not try it and listen for yourself? I’m with Ryelands on this. It's a perfectly valid alternative. So just try it and see if it meets your sound quality standards.

* Some tips when you use a LAN connection too connect your HDD.
One ingredient in the cMP-recipe is lowering speeds of chips and logic so too decrease the noise these circuits generate, too make them less current hungry, too reduce voltage sacks ect etc. Same applies too the LAN chip on your MoBo.
1. So I use my Realtek PCIe GBE family controller with these setting (in ‘Device Manager’, view: ‘Devices by connection). In ‘properties’ under the ‘advanced’ tab:
- I put it at fixed (low) 10Mb/s speed (so not 100 or 1000Mb/s)
- I disable all automatic energy savings options
- I disable all automatic Wake On ‘etc, ect’ facility’s

2. The PCIe channel in my MoBo has 2 root ports. Only one root port is used by the Realtek LAN controller. So I disable the PCIe root port that is not used by the Realtek LAN controller.
(BTW: I also disable channel 1 on the Serial ATA storage controller. I use my SSD on channel 0 so Serial ATA channel 1 can be disabled both in the BIOS as well as in the device manager)

3. Cics describes very well which devices NOT TO DISABLE in the device manager when using LAN. So I will point you too cicsmemoryplayer website for that.

4. However Cics is not so clear on his website what services are minimal needed when using LAN.
A cMP setup can run with only 2 services enabled: ‘Plug & Play’ + Remote Procedure Call (RPC). For LAN you only need one extra service: ‘Workstation’.
You don’t need too use the ‘DHCP client’-service if you assign a static IP address by hand yourself.
(you only need too assign this address once)

N.B. This is not mentioned as a detailed ‘how to’. I just wrote it too roughly guide you. After reading this you now know all area’s in a cMP PC that need attention. Exact details as where too click and look and also how too configure your IP settings between your PC and NAS, you will have too study yourself. But also that is rather easy not very hard too accomplish.

Succes

Mark

 

RE: why not just try and see if you like it. I'm with Ryelands: it's a perfectly valid alternative., posted on June 14, 2011 at 22:18:26
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 Hi hfavandepas,

I'm happy that you get back as obviously I misunderstood you.

I can understand that "Any extra activity in your cMP setup that is not needed too process your digital audio stream will most likely affect sound quality because these extra activity’s use hardware, use PC and processor resources, involved hardware produces noise, causes voltage sacks, ect. So when LAN is not needed: don’t use it and disable hard- and software."
That's why my suggestion was to use the LAN connection just to copy what I want to listen to (let's say a 40mn or 90mn album)from the NAS through LAN to the SSD. I was thinking of using a partitioned SSD with programs on one side and data on the other side. Therefore what I am listening to is on the SSD and doesn't involve LAN connection in real time. Does the fact that the LAN connection is used just to copy audio files on the SSD data partition BEFORE the playing time influences the SQ?
Of course if I want to listen to a playlist of hours of music for partying or background music purposes I'd go directly from NAS to cmp ie the upmost SQ is not needed.
I'm also puzzled that nobody in the cmp2 blog is referencing to DRC (Digital Room Correction). Does it mean that they are ignorant of it or that they consider it as a 'minor' improvement well behind the source improvement?
I personnaly won't consider any digital improvement path without a DRC correction. Once you've experienced it there's no way to going back imho.

 

What DRC system do you use?, posted on June 15, 2011 at 01:53:26
hfavandepas
 Hi Golo,

When done right Digital Room Correction can sound very, very good. Same accounts for digital correction of speakers. An other audioasylum inmate invited me over too his place too audition his Klein & Hummel O 500 C - Digital Active Main Monitor. These active monitors have digital correction build in (not for compensating room characteristics) but for correcting and compensating characteristics of the applied speaker drive units, speaker cabinet, build in amplifiers, etc. The end result is truly impressive.
He stressed that I should explore the possibilities of DRC because it would greatly enhance my listening experience. He was convinced that DRC would better my listening experience more than buying a new top line DAC from makes like Weiss, Prism or Lavry (I'm planning such a purchase.

So when I’m done battling conducted EMI noise too lowest possible levels in my cMP setup, may be next project shuld be Digital Room Correction. There are some professional Digital Correction systems(The Klein & Hummel Pro C 28 - Digital FIR Controller would fit my O300 speakers nicely) and also some ready made out-of-the box solutions for consumer electronics.

What DRC system do you use?

Mark

 

RE: What DRC system do you use?, posted on June 15, 2011 at 03:49:04
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 I'm not dedicated yet to one system although I'm sure to use one: the good thing about cmp is that it allows you for one plug-in which, for me, will be a convolver in which I can load my FIR filters.
Of course it will use more CPU, current etc... But I tend to personally think that DRC makes bigger improvement than a change of output capacitors or ...
I've experienced with ACXO which has the advantage of being very effective and simple but is limited to 16-bit, with Inguz on my Squeezebox Classic which set-up is more complex, but ultimately has the same limitations of ACXO, with pure DRC by Denis Sbragion which set-up is too complex for me and finally I'm now experimenting with Audiolense, which you have to pay for, but the free demo version gives me already fantastic 'in location cues' ie a fabulous 'beyond the speakers depth' with my own recordings of symphony orchestras and choirs. It is less obvious with compressed commercial recordings.
Anyway I'm convinced and I will use DRC. The SQ advantages of DRC are far more important to me than the so-called digital artifacts that some detractors are hearing (?).

 

RE: Bypassing upsampling, posted on June 18, 2011 at 03:25:43
Hixmer


 

Are there perhaps any plans of implementing the bypassing of upsampling in a new release? Like the previous posters i find it quite a hassle to match the sample rates all the time. Other than that i'm good with it ;)

 

RE: Bypassing upsampling, posted on June 18, 2011 at 04:44:39
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 How can upsampling be bypassed at all?

In the bottom LH corner of the cPlay window, there's a little green icon. Click on it to access the cPlay settings dialogue and select the sampling rate that matches that of the target file (typically 44.1). As yet, this has to be reset manually if you change from e.g. CDs to hi-res files.

During play, cPlay displays the number and sampling rate of the current track and the output rate at the top left of the window thus: [3 44>44] (for track 3, 44.1KHz, NOS).

HTH

Dave

 

RE: nope ! -no compromise, posted on June 19, 2011 at 22:13:19
Apokalypse
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Victoria
Joined: April 1, 2005
 I also use this hardware architecture.

For the OS drive I use a patriot inferno 60gb and for storage I use a WD green 2TB hdd inside a vantec nexstar enclosure. The HDD sits inside the case while the power adaptor for the vantec sits outside the case.

 

Digital Room Correction, posted on June 20, 2011 at 04:20:46
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hey golo & hfavandepas

...in all humbleness :

I´ve gone from digital IIR crossover technique (Allocator) to FIR filtering with my cMP2 maschine for some while now, and the result is nothing short of amazing and highly recommendable !

There are two important considerations :

1. -with FIR filtering you may need a slightly higher processor speed and associated higher voltage level in your system.

2. - FIR filters do also need to be trimmed correctly to your environment for highest fidelity. A number of the cheaper software offerings for this are not up to high-end standards, because they are too automated.
I suggest using Acourate for state-of-the-art implementation of FIR, simply because it can be tailored better than others.

I´ve posted a number of views on how it works on the digital asylum, so if anyone wants to consider FIR filtering within cMP2 have a look or send me an e-mail.


kind regards





Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Digital Room Correction, posted on June 20, 2011 at 14:54:24
kclo


 
Can you give me a link please to your post in Digital Asylum? Couldn't find it.

Thanks.

 

RE: Digital Room Correction, posted on June 20, 2011 at 23:32:28
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey kclo,

I did a summary on my FIR filter project here :

http://db.AudioAsylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=171469&highlight=FIR+play-mate&r=&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fforum%3Dcables%26searchtext%3Dq-10

-and you will find a lot more when searching "FIR" autored by play-mate....

kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Digital Room Correction, posted on June 21, 2011 at 02:21:15
kclo


 
Thanks Play-mate,

If I were a planar speaker user (I once was, decades ago), I would definitely follow your example. But I am now a quite happy Mirage OM-6 user (the optimized cMP system really gives new life to them), I am more interested in the effect of FIR filters to correct room effects, rather than digital cross-over and multi-amp.

But your post is really interesting.

 

RE: Digital Room Correction, posted on June 21, 2011 at 02:58:59
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Hey kclo,

-thanks for you encouraging words...

To implement FIR into a traditional setup with regular passive Xo´s is equally possible, and even easier.
Acourate generates then the sweep over the entire frequency range and the result is equally stunning.
-also in a passive crossover does Acourate align a perfect time-, impulse and frequency behavior.

Where as in an active system 6 filters (in a 3-way speaker) are generated, in a passive stereo system Acourate generates two.
These filters are just implemented into the cPlay DSP via convolver. That´s it !

kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Digital Room Correction, posted on June 25, 2011 at 00:50:46
golo
Audiophile

Posts: 22
Location: South Australia
Joined: November 25, 2010
 Thanks play-mate,
To be honest, although I'm sure I want to go the DRC way, I don't have enough knowledge to understand it properly and therefore to be able to use Acourate. What is good for you "because it can be tailored better than others" might not be useful to me as I doubt I know enough on how to tailor it for my needs.
One thing I've noticed when using DRC is the improvement difference it makes wether you're playing a commercial recording versus a original one. I've noticed that on my own recordings, especially those with a huge soundstage ie a symphony orchestra, the improvement made by DRC is huge (specifically regarding depth)compared to a commercial pop recording.
Have you noticed the same?

I also wonder if you could do me a favor and direct me to the right threads (so many are not identified by what they are talking about) regarding the following topics:

- I'd like to know if it's possible to implement cmp2 with 2 different configs: a 'purist' one following cics rules as well as a 'lite', more user friendly one for background music or for my family to use it where use of a touchscreen or screen+mouse and connection to a NAS, operational CD/DVD drive to use direct CD playback etc is possible?

- is there a comparison, SQ wise, between usb+usb dac, usb/spdif converter+dac and soundcard/spdif+dac?

- as the aim of cmp2 is to use the less possible load and energy would it be good if it played raw wave files instead of wave or flac?

golo

 

Large(segmented) tracks abort when playing from network storage, posted on June 25, 2011 at 07:09:24
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Using cMP^2 with the net use command to play from a library on an external usb drive attached to my other networked computer, it usually functions well and sounds great, perhaps better than with the same drive attached directly. But any time it encounters a track large enough to be segmented as shown in parenthesis after the title it plays for about 23 seconds and then is interrupted by an asio driver reset request. This is so for all samplerates, buffer settings and regardless of whether resampling is involved or not. This never happens when the drive is directly attached. It would appear that the problem might be with reloading RAM with the next segment, but of course I don't know.

Anyone else encounter this? Or can you report it doesn't happen in your system so I know to look further for a local issue.

 

RE: Large(segmented) tracks abort when playing from network storage, posted on June 25, 2011 at 07:21:04
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Can you report it doesn't happen in your system?

It doesn't happen in my system. Honest.

I see that your music (i.e. shared) drive is connected to your server via USB. That's going to be on the s-l-o-o-o-w side. Can you try connecting it via a SATA port, even if only temporarily for test purposes?

I've no idea why but cPlay doesn't seem to cope well if there's a delay in receiving data for whatever reason. Of course, with a local SATA drive, the situation doesn't arise.

HTH

Dave

 

Large(segmented) tracks abort when playing from network storage, posted on June 25, 2011 at 07:30:17
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Thanks for the quick response. I don't believe I have a way to connect this external drive via SATA, but I guess I could try playing some long files from the server computers primary internal hdd to see how that goes.

 

Playing from server internal SATA drive made no difference., posted on June 25, 2011 at 08:25:34
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Any further thoughts about what the problem might be?

 

RE: Playing from server internal SATA drive made no difference., posted on June 25, 2011 at 09:35:07
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Any further thoughts ?

In cPlay's settings dialogue, disable Autoplay (makes things easier to control; double-click to start play) and AWE. Repeat your test.

Even if it works, it isn't a cure but it would be a step forward.

D

 

No luck with AWE off either - ATTN:CICS any help? (nt), posted on June 25, 2011 at 14:01:05
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 .

 

RE: No luck with AWE off either - ATTN:CICS any help? (nt), posted on June 25, 2011 at 23:47:57
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 In cMP have you suspended both svchost and lsass? Try to suspend svchost only.

 

RE: why not just try and see if you like it. I'm with Ryelands: it's a perfectly valid alternative., posted on June 26, 2011 at 12:47:23
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Mark!
You wrote "I put it at fixed (low) 10Mb/s speed (so not 100 or 1000Mb/s)". Are you sure that such speed reduction give improving in SQ. After all thus loading of a content from NAS into cMP2' memory through a network during playback will be very slow.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

No not sure at all if it will improve SQ. Also a question about your PSU and ferrites , posted on June 26, 2011 at 14:45:38
hfavandepas
 Hi Mihaylov,

No I’m not sure. Actually I don’t hear any SQ difference. Not for the better, nor for the worst.

I just lower the speed because in general lowering speed will reduce the amount of noise that is generated/emitted by the hardware involved. And probably also the involved hardware will draw less current or will have less need for current in short periodic bursts (avoiding voltage sacks).

However the above is just speculation/theory.

In practice I can see that cPlay not starts playing before (an amount of) the music file is loaded in memory. While the first music file is being played, at some time the second music file is loaded from the NAS through LAN. Whether this is done slow or fast, makes no sound quality difference when playing the first music file. At least, it makes no sound quality difference that my setup is able too let me hear.

So too be on the save side I put it on slow. Being on slow (10 Mb/s)it takes a fraction more time before cPlay starts playing the first music file. But I can live with that.

* But now for something completely different.

Your message comes at a crucial time. Right know I’m experimenting a lot with ferrites too filter the amount of very HF on the power supply lines too the P4 and too the P24. When used enough(!) ferrites in combination with some decoupling caps too shunt HF frequencies, this results in a very nice SQ improvement.

I use the recommended Peaktech/Velleman Linear PSU too power the P4 with 12 DC. Placing ferrites on the 12 V DC lines improved sound quality noticeably. Not much, but just a little. With some extra decoupling caps it again gave a little improvement. I wasn’t expecting this. However it is just a regular, mass produced linear bench PSU. May be it is still somewhat noisy.

I wondered if you ever tried placing (enough!!) ferrites & some decoupling caps on the DC lines of your custom build, high quality PSU?
I’m very curious if ferrites also improve sound quality in you r setup when (enough!) ferrites are used on such a high quality, custom build linear PSU.

Have you ever tried ?

Mark

 

Large(segmented) tracks abort when playing from network storage, posted on June 26, 2011 at 15:17:10
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 No change with only svc host suspended.

Strangely, I have come across one 24/96 album whose 3 tracks though in 2 segments each play right through and don't interrupt after 23 seconds or so. All others with 2 or more segments tried so far do interrupt at about that point.

 

Can one disable the digital filters (not the Resampler) in the CPlayer?, posted on June 27, 2011 at 17:47:19
DM9999
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Joined: June 27, 2011
 If the input freq and output freq are the same, can I disable the digital filters in the CPlay.

I understand that if the input and output are the same freq (say both 44.1), the Resampler IS NOT used.

However, Resampler and Digital Filter are two different things, one can bypass the Resampler but still use a digital filter.

So can the digital filters (not the Resampler) in the CPlay be bypassed/disabled completely?

Thanks,

DM

 

resampler vs. filters, posted on June 27, 2011 at 17:56:04
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Dear DM9999,

In your specific quest about what cPlay does to an equal : in => out samplingrate, only cics can give you an exact answer, but I kind of remember that he has claimed several times, that straight in, is straight out....

There is no (cPlay) filter involved in this equation !!

what leads you to this assumption ?


kind regards


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: resampler vs. filters, posted on June 27, 2011 at 21:43:25
DM9999
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Joined: June 27, 2011
 >what leads you to this assumption ?

because the sound is slightly different when I change the filters ... or I am just imagining things?

 

The problem is with the ssd I am using, posted on June 28, 2011 at 11:33:39
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I tried setting up the networking on a hdd cMP^2 setup I had as a backup. It worked properly right off with no aborting of segmented long tracks. So I cloned this partition onto the ssd, replacing what was there that was having the problem, and now this clone of what works on the hdd also aborts segmented tracks. Clearly the problem has to do with the ssd. It is a Kingston 16GB ssdnow 100 like a number of us got on sale, I believe, from Egghead earlier this year. I used Paragon migration software made for migration to ssds. I know little about ssds, so wonder if someone can tell me why this might be and what might be done about it.

The consolation is that I now have an hdd-based cMP^2 setup that can play from a network drive and sounds quite good. It's just that the ssd should be better if I could get it to behave.

 

RE: The problem is with the ssd I am using, posted on June 28, 2011 at 13:29:09
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 wonder if someone can tell me why this might be . . .

I too had issues with one of those "bargain" Kingston SSDs though not as you describe - I was getting drop outs with data residing on the drive. I solved it by streaming over a LAN and having the OS only on the SSD. (Both configurations are fine with an HDD.)

what might be done about it

I bought the bottom-of-the-range 8GB Kingston SSD simply to test the idea and plan some day to buy a more up-to-date one. Hopefully that will fix the problem.

Whatever, the Kingston device made the sound so much better than the old 2.5" HDD (no idea why) that I devised a work-round pending funds.

The rest, as they say, is history. Hopefully the Kingston SSD will be the same before too long.

Dave

 

No one knows? (NT), posted on June 28, 2011 at 19:49:53
deskmate9999@yahoo.com.cn


 
thanks.

 

cmp2 + cplay distortion? , posted on June 29, 2011 at 21:00:08
Apokalypse
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Victoria
Joined: April 1, 2005
 Just wondering if anyone has noticed anything like this, or if they haven't could tell me some areas that could possibly be the cause of this...

Recently I changed the hardware of my full cmp2+cplay setup. I have noticed since this change that on some recordings there appears to be some distortion on the treble. This only occurs with 'loud' recordings, for example on Amy Winehouse's 'back to black' on the louder vocal parts.

Initally the problem was pronounced (and annoying) but I let the system burn in over about 50 hours and it seems much less pronounced, to the point where now sometimes I'm questioning if it's the recording, the rip or my imagination.

Overall the hardware changed the sound signature markedly with the sound being more open, there being more detail and more seperation between instruments.

My system is the recommended i3 system with 1GB of RAM. I use an Asus Xonar Essence for the digital output rather than the juli however. I'll detail the changes. I went from:
-Magnum 500W power supply
-1tb WD green in an external enclosure plugged in through sata with an e-sata to sata converter cable.

To:
-Antec signature 850
-Patriot 60gb SSD as OS drive
-2tb WD green storage drive connected in the same way as above.

I also used nLite to cut down the version of windows (XP SP2) I used and disabled the USB ports I wasn't using, I did not do this before.

Any help at all would be great.

 

RE: cmp2 + cplay distortion? , posted on June 29, 2011 at 21:34:40
Apokalypse
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Victoria
Joined: April 1, 2005
 Thinking out loud... could this be due to underclocking the CPU? I have it at .650v I believe.

 

Dear Cics: is Cplay 39 ...Cplay last?, posted on July 3, 2011 at 14:45:48
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 If so you stopped at a good place and thanks for all the effort. Cplay is no small achievement and continues to provide a remarkable front end (the best) for my system and perhaps many other AA inmate systems. It was a tremendously exciting ride for me personally.


If Cplay 40 is to come then thanks for the continous effort.

 

Download does nuthin', AMD Ontario., posted on July 3, 2011 at 15:29:27
Albert B. Broman
Audiophile

Posts: 740
Location: Pac NW
Joined: July 10, 2000
 ok, what am I missing here? I downloaded cPlay, but it sets on the desktop and remains passive when I click on it. I am trying to see how it works on a new AMD Ontario Laptop. I get this on the read me "cicsPlay installation successful (no settings yet)." But Windows 7 says it can't find it. It's there "C:\Program Files (x86)\cics Play" 1.91 MB. I tried SSE4 and SSSE3.
I just know this is something real simple.

 

Large(segmented) tracks abort when playing from network storage, posted on July 3, 2011 at 19:48:47
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I had cMP^2 on one drive, a hdd, that worked on segmented files and one, on a ssd, that didn't. Now the hdd version doesn't let them play thru either. So now it seems it is a corruption of the network function or a router change of some sort that develops over time. I am baffled. Any thoughts and/or suggestions? (Dlink DIR 655 router, xp pro fully modded on Lenovo t500 laptop)

 

Try associating a wav or flac file with cPlay, posted on July 3, 2011 at 21:58:34
ArdRi
 and see if it opens the file.

 

RE: Download does nuthin', AMD Ontario., posted on July 3, 2011 at 22:51:38
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Try SSE2.

 

cplay 2.40 or better? New very important tweaks. (VERY LONG), posted on July 4, 2011 at 04:35:05
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody!
As I almost despaired to see 2.b 40 I decided to explore what else can be done to improve the sound. I now own Lynx l22 and I noticed that its wdm driver is only 1 of several. Renaming them one by one proved that they are all necessary and that asio is not independent of windows kernel streaming. So I thought I may as well try to do smth about it. But can I, really? I read again AOBCT and found that nothing had been told about different (about 8) sound codecs that are on the system. I removed all of them, including ms pcm converter, some fraunhoffer, truespeech and others. I was heavily under belgian monastic beer and decided to go on. Next thing, I went run-regedit-HKLM and Attention, very important! not only HKLM current machine but also current user and REMOVED FROM THE REGISTRY:
all adobe entries
almost all microsoft entries in SOFTWARE
a lot of other entries from UNKNOWN.
Another entry was from NETSCAPE. But I left it, though it was very tempting to remove it. Please mind that I did it in local machine AND current user.
I rebooted my machine. The sound was so astonishingly different that first I thought I spoiled everything. 5-10 minutes later I realized I have made a change that was much STRONGER than Minlogon. In fact stronger than anything. The highs got so airy and detailed (in fact uleashed at last completely), the scene so deep, high and multilayered, I hardly find words now. Bass extravagantly defined. I call it luck of a drunk. So I suggest that folks with deeper knowledge than mine would experiment and have their say. BUT BE CAREFUL. After my blind tweaking I don't see any hardware in control panel. No devices at all. Those who are brave and wise enough, are welcome to experiment, but please report. I am listening to cmp-cplay for several days and see that a lot is yet to be done with cplay soundwise if my tweaks were directed correctly. Do these tweaks and You will see what I mean.
If You have done this (removing codecs) and I merely missed smth., I apologize for bothering you all.
Also a question for help: What is the exact syntax of bootlog file with HPET/97?? on. Does it work in XP?
Serge.
P.S. Glad to write to You all after such a loooooong pause.

 

RE: Download does nuthin', AMD Ontario., posted on July 4, 2011 at 04:40:18
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I just know this is something real simple.

According to Wiki, Ontario chips support SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4a, NX bit, AMD64, PowerNow! and AMD-V (even) so I doubt that supported instruction sets are your problem. (Some fancy upsampling features work on Intel chips only IIRC).

However, you say, "It's there 'C:\Program Files (x86)\cics Play' ".

If you're launching cPlay from a short-cut, is its path correct? It might be that it's pointing to C:\Program Files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe [i.e. no ( x86)] as that's the default location for Win XP.

Have you tried navigating manually either in Explorer or via the Run command to cicsPlay.exe and clicking on it?

In the \cics Play folder, there's also a .BAT file that launches cPlay. I don't know if it's used in routine play (I think it's used by cMP) but try double-clicking on it to see if it works. If not, try opening it in Notepad and editing "Progra~1" to read "C:\Program Files (x86)" and having another go.

Note that I know SFA about Win 7 (I'm sort of OK on XP) but it's possibly worth your checking the above.

HTH

Dave

 

This solved it instantly., posted on July 4, 2011 at 05:47:42
Albert B. Broman
Audiophile

Posts: 740
Location: Pac NW
Joined: July 10, 2000
 Rather odd as this is a new chipset that supposedly supports "everything". I wonder why the older SSE2 works and newer ones don't? Is this something cics could address and is there really any need to actually have the newer instruction set?
Thanks to all for your help.

 

RE: cplay 2.40 or better? New very important tweaks. (VERY LONG), posted on July 4, 2011 at 07:10:10
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Great to hear from you indeed. Just a few questions because I would like to retrace your steps.

'...about different (about 8) sound codecs that are on the system.I removed all of them, including ms pcm converter, some fraunhoffer, truespeech and others...'

Where did you do this? Was it under device Mgr? Did you remove all these codecs or just Microsoft codecs?

'...I went run-regedit-HKLM and Attention, very important! not only HKLM current machine but also current user and REMOVED FROM THE REGISTRY:
all adobe entries almost all microsoft entries in SOFTWARE a lot of other entries from UNKNOWN...'

So you goto Regedit HKLM and remove ms software entries plus others. Did you set their values to 0? If not how did you remove...just delete? Also you said you removed almost all microsoft entries. Which ones did you not remove? Which specific entries did you delete from UNKNOWN?

Welcome back Serge! Sometimes alcohol can be inspiring!

 

RE: This solved it instantly., posted on July 4, 2011 at 12:05:06
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 SSE3 and SSE4 instructions by AMD are slightly different from Intel's, that's why.

 

audio codecs location and other thoughts, posted on July 4, 2011 at 12:57:16
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I see ten of them on the machine I am using, not my cMP machine. Haven't looked there yet.

Goto CONTROL PANEL/SOUNDS AND AUDIO DEVICES/HARDWARE/select AUDIO CODECS/PROPERTIES/select the codec you want to delete/select DO NOT USE THIS AUDIO CODEC.

One wonders if there would be advantages to removing even more of this stuff?

VIDEO CODECS?
MEDIA CONTROL DEVICES?

One would worry if you could no longer make changes to HARDWAARE in CONTROL PANEL.

Is "current machine" LOCAL MACHINE?

Very interesting.

Have you made a list of which items you have "removed" from the registry?

Is there a way to do this so that one does not have to modify EVERY SINGLE THING? Could take longer than "tuning" XP!!!

Now to try out no audio codecs!!!

Thanks,

 

RE: cplay 2.40 or better? New very important tweaks. (VERY LONG), posted on July 4, 2011 at 18:41:50
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Only did some of it (wanted to ease into it) so I checked do not use the audio codecs (instead of removing) and Holy Cow!! Wow! Nice tweak let me buy you a beer Serge!

 

more sober now, posted on July 5, 2011 at 04:06:31
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hi, Theo! Codecs are Control panel-sound and audio devices-there You will find Audiocodecs. Under Properties of these audiocodecs You will find them enumerated (about 10-12) I removed them all as is suggested by the dialog.
Registry was a blind shot.but I recall I left untouched security and those I wasn't sure about. Really, Theo I relied completely on common sense, that is why I ask more knowledgeable guys to retrace my steps. Yes,I just DELETED them. Unknown entries were well.. unknown. Also I remember I deleted entries from alwill software, avg antivirus, anti malware bytes smth. but it may not be relevant to Your machine. Be very careful, because after my drunk escapade I don't see any devices listed under hardware in control panel.
Wish that computer specialists among us join this qwest.
Serge.

 

other (siber) thoughts, posted on July 5, 2011 at 04:23:31
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello! I think I removed media control devices as well, because YES, I don't see any hardware in control panel. Slightly ovedid, I guess.
Next, local machine And CURRENT USER. Read my answer to Theo's questions. I am ready to send my registry for inspection, only I don't know which file(s) contain it. I am not boasting, I ask for help from computer specialists who would wish to follow not my steps exactly, but this registry-editing direction in a sensible way so that others may repeat it safely.
I removed all the codecs. As I understand, while they are on the system, they are permanently attached to kernel streaming drivers (2 of ks*.sys files there, it seems) and produce a lot of havoc.
Thanks for Your interest.
Serge.

 

RE: cplay 2.40 or better? New very important tweaks. (VERY LONG), posted on July 5, 2011 at 04:28:55
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Thanks for trying, Theo! It is settling now and the initial grain in HF is coming away. Psycho trick?
Serge.

 

RE: cplay 2.40 or better? New very important tweaks. (VERY LONG), posted on July 5, 2011 at 04:34:18
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Did you compare 'Do not Use' with 'Remove' audio codecs? I did Do Not Use and I get the best highs I have ever had. Dynamics are greatly improved too. Yes it starts out a bit grainly but quickly warms up to bliss.

 

RE: cplay 2.40 or better? New very important tweaks. (VERY LONG), posted on July 5, 2011 at 05:26:45
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Many thanks for your report.

In Device Manager > Sound, video & game controllers, I removed every video and audio device except for the Microsoft PCM Converter (which can't be removed) and, of course, the driver for the DAC. I agree - there does seem to be a worthwhile improvement.

As soon as I get some time, I'll reverse the changes once or twice to try to be more certain. (I'll also take a look at your suggested Reg Edits.)

It is settling now and the initial grain in HF is coming away. Psycho trick?

Most likely but, if you'd like to wager on it . . . :>)

Dave

 

One worries that one WANTS too badly to hear an improvement, posted on July 6, 2011 at 12:02:34
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 but I do think I am hearing a general improvement.

There is better cohesion of the image. I hear better center fill. Yes, the high frequencies do seem to have less grain. But, I could be kidding myself.

I figure if I think it is better then it is better.

I would really like to try the registry tricks. One is nervous that when you go too far you have to start over again.

Dear Steppe, would you list what you think are good guidelines as to how you approached WHAT to disable? Not asking you to spell it all out.

Also, how many items do you think you disabled?

Thanks for you intrepid nature and your report.

Just when you think the thread is down for the count something like this comes up. No question the onus is on us to keep this vital. I wish I had something to offer other than encouragement.

Thanks, again,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: One worries that one WANTS too badly to hear an improvement, posted on July 6, 2011 at 12:49:39
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Rick I personally wont go into the registry w/o a specfific list of stuff to delete. Too much risk for a won't boot issue for me. If you do it please post exactly what you do so other 'registry unfriendly' folks like me can follow.

 

Tweaks reconstructed+ some news, posted on July 7, 2011 at 03:38:23
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody! I more or less managed to reconstruct what I did.
First I DELETED all codecs, including Microsoft PCM converter. IT DOES MOST TWEAKING
As for the registry, I still remember it vague, but I recollect now that two entries were from antivirus software, one unknown (and very suspicious), one from anti malware bytes smth (hidden worm possibly) and several microsoft entries. I didn't touch netscape entry, though it was tempting.
MOST IMPORTANT I reconstructed the tweak with codecs on my wife's machine
1 I installed Asio-for-all on her comp to drive onboard azahlia soundcard.
2. I installed cPlay 2-39 sse2 on her machine
3 I removed joystics, mixers and all the rest
4 I set ALL CODECS to DO NOT USE. Everything worked fine. The effect is very strong.
5 I started swithing on MS codecs one by one untill the sound came back to initial quality. TWO are most important to remove - Windows media audio AND PCM converter (on both my machines it went off easily).
6 I think registry tweaking is relatively unimportant now.
Now some speculations and reflections. I noticed that HF are a little bit TOO PROMINENT, so I suppose that Cics was "voicing" the player subconsciously to overcome codecs' bottleneck. Now, when there is no bottleneck, the highs are a little bit too loud and somewhat grainy, maybe too "eager". Also I think that our beloved Secretly Rabid Code is probably using pcm converter from Microsoft or touches windows media audio somehow.
I urgently suggest that folks with studio monitors would try codecs tweak and report on the difference.
Also I suspect on the edge of my hearing an increase in hf hiss at higher volume. (Please mind that I use now very poor speakers).
It is getting too long, but I will tell You, that I have compared untweaked And tweaked cmp-cplay with two cd players : one a $3500 Ayre player, another - 12000 euro Gryphon Mikado. The report will surprise You, but leave till my next post, where I will report also of our player compared to my former Accuphase setup.
Happy tweaking.
Serge.

 

RE: Tweaks reconstructed+ some news, posted on July 7, 2011 at 05:33:06
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I more or less managed to reconstruct what I did.

and I've managed to reproduce your results . . . while stone-cold sober, even.

I deleted all the Audio codecs except for the Windows PCM converter which XP wouldn't allow me to remove. However, I could disable it so I did.

I repeated this for Legacy Audio Drivers, Legacy Video Capture Devices and Media Control Devices. I also "removed" the Video codecs but they reappeared on re-boot so I deleted the .dll files instead. (Whether these matter in the slightest, I have no idea but removing them did no harm.)

I've now listened to the change using familiar material over two lengthy sessions and during casual listening and am firmly convinced that the change is well worth making. (I don't find the treble excessive using what I'd term mid-range kit though I'm not saying you're wrong either.)

Many thanks!

Dave

 

RE: Tweaks reconstructed+ some news, posted on July 7, 2011 at 07:14:30
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 At first I thought maybe I should not do the video stuff (thinking graphics in my head) but all the codec deletions you recommend (audio & video)are good ones and I think they do a small sq improvement. Certainly not as much as the audio codecs but worthwhile indeed.

 

I like it. RE: Tweaks reconstructed+ some news, posted on July 7, 2011 at 08:45:58
hfavandepas
 Hi Serge,

Off board Theo and I already communicated about the SQ changes.
See here after.
I only disabled the sound codecs.
I did not delete them.

Reading other posts in this thread,
I think in general, everyone is hearing more or less the same type of SQ changes.

Thank you for this tweak

Mark




>>>>> Hi Theo,
>>>>> I'm right at it.
>>>>> First impressions: indeed a nice SQ pop.
>>>>> There are more micro details and also a somewhat better stereo image.
>>>>>
>>>>> But also some HF brightness added.
>>>>> (may be I just have too get used too the new sound)
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I like it.
>>>>> Especially because the combination of ferrites + caps 'softens' the
>>>>> extra HF
>>>>> brightness
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark

 

Cue Questions, posted on July 7, 2011 at 09:54:51
kev.pfeifle
Audiophile

Posts: 44
Joined: June 27, 2011
 Hello All:

Started using cPlay and I really love the sound. Is there any helper programs to build cue sheets with the direct paths built in? I know I can edit the text file, but has anybody come up with a better way? Thanks,

Kevin

 

You know this one? http://www.alanjordan.org/CPlayListEditor.html (nt) , posted on July 7, 2011 at 10:04:55
hfavandepas
 nt

 

RE: Cue Questions, posted on July 7, 2011 at 12:59:06
kev.pfeifle
Audiophile

Posts: 44
Joined: June 27, 2011
 Yes I tried the Alan Jordan download. Installs fine and brings up all of my music tracks. I specify the root dir to build a cue file in, select a few tracks and yes...it builds the cue file. However to does not work with cPlay, the error I get is that FLAC file can't be found (because its looking for the file in the root dir, not the sub dir). Its possible I don't have it configured correctly...but their don't seem like a lot of options to play with.

Kevin

 

Please educate me/us on how to delete the .dll files, posted on July 8, 2011 at 07:52:05
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Please!

One does wonder how much effect it would have but still there are few things more satisfying than deleting stuff out of XP.

 

DLLcache and windows file protection system, posted on July 8, 2011 at 09:58:34
hfavandepas
 Hi Ryelands,

The deleted dll-file most likely will re-appear through the actions of the windows file protection system. When a vital OS file is deleted, the Windows file protection systems normally will detect this and will try too re-install a copy from the dllcache-directory. See :\windows\system32\dllcache

So don’t forget too delete these file from the dllcache too. But probably than the windows file protection system will ask you for the CD with the original Windows XP installation files.

Mark

NB
This Windows file protection system can nicely be misused when applying the minlogon.
Rename the minlogon.exe too winlogon.exe.
Replace the original winlogon.exe in the dllcache with the renamed ‘fake winlogon.exe’-file into the dllcache.
Delete the winlogon.exe (that XP actually uses) in the :\windows\system32 directory.
The windows file protection system will detect this and will now look in the dllcache for a backup copy.
The windows file protection system will now install the ‘fake winlogon.exe’ for you from the dllcache.
Just as you want this too happen.
:-)
(don't forget too apply the needed registry edit. The windows file protection system will not do this)

 

Even if WFP had been disabled prior to installing MINLOGON?, posted on July 8, 2011 at 13:56:15
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 just curious.

 

Didn't know WFP could be disabled? Can it ? (nt), posted on July 8, 2011 at 14:25:22
hfavandepas
 nt

 

Step 2 in the instructions, posted on July 8, 2011 at 21:51:55
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 see the minlog section

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

Sorry didn’t read that, because I immediately figured how too misuse the WFP feature, posted on July 9, 2011 at 04:23:01
hfavandepas
 Hi Dawnrazor,

Thankx for the link on how too disable the WFP feature manually.

But I think using ‘step 2’ in the minlogon implementation is much work.
Why going through the all that trouble of disabling the WFP feature if one can let it do the job for you.
Simply copy the ‘fake winlogon.exe’ in too the dllcache directory, etc.

Mark

 

Yes, It can be done. (read on), posted on July 9, 2011 at 05:07:53
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hi, WFP can be completely disabled. Read carefull about minlogon tweak. There is a try-out progran that does it
.serge

 

RE: cmp2 + cplay distortion? , posted on July 9, 2011 at 11:28:25
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Hi Apokalypse
have you tried to use the analog output of Essence? Which kind of driver have you in use? Upsampling? I can't believe that it's a problem of undervolting, this could be cause of dropout not distortion.
I think it could be the digital output ( connection-cable- DAC- other?)
Try analog output and listen if distortion persist
Daniele

 

RE: Sorry didn’t read that, because I immediately figured how too misuse the WFP feature, posted on July 9, 2011 at 22:02:11
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Well I THINK that windows is smarter than that. If you dont disable WFP then windows will just overwrite the fake file.

Though it is easy to tell. If you load differently after making the switch and you continue to load differently and faster then perhaps you are right. Though if it is so why would someone as savvy as Cics do extra steps, and why wouldnt someone have brought it up before. Like segers who found the simple method, etc.

Anyhow if Dawnrazor can do it, everyone should be able to cope.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

also anyone can misuse the WFP feature, posted on July 10, 2011 at 02:14:53
hfavandepas
 Hi Dawnrazor,

It’s indeed very easy too tell, in various ways, if the switch to minlogon was successful or not. There is really no need for such patronizing post.

I would have liked you first studied how the WFP feature actually works. Especially from what directory the WFP retrieves the backup copies.

Mark


 

RE: also anyone can misuse the WFP feature, posted on July 11, 2011 at 06:32:20
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hi Mark,

Sorry. I was shocked at your reply. I never intended to be patronizing. Didnt think I was being patronizing.

Sorry it came off that way.



Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: cplay 2.40 or better? New very important tweaks. (VERY LONG), posted on July 18, 2011 at 16:38:03
kclo
Audiophile

Posts: 68
Joined: August 21, 2010
 Though I had not go back and forth between the 2 options, 'Do Not Use' vs 'Remove', (I first tried 'Do Not Use' listened for a couple of hours and then 'Remove'); I much prefer 'Remove'.

 

I overreacted. I apologize., posted on July 24, 2011 at 13:24:07
hfavandepas
 Hi Dawnrazor,

I overreacted.
I should have lifted the thread back too the content-level and should have stuck too the WFP topic.
I instead I continued the thread on the level about persons.
My sincere apologies for that.

Mark

 

RE: I overreacted. I apologize., posted on July 24, 2011 at 14:03:39
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hi Mark,

No worries. I have zero issues with you personally or any other way for that matter.

In fact I learn a bunch from you.

Again sorry for the way I wrote that post.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on August 5, 2011 at 09:27:20
bernard991
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Location: w canada
Joined: May 22, 2005
 is it possible to use more than 1 GB of RAM ...?
I have 2 modules of 2 GB that would slip in , seems like more is better
thanks

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on August 5, 2011 at 17:10:33
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 Why don't you try and let's know the result?

But I had tried as single 1Gb and a 512Mb, and the latter is sonically superior.

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on August 6, 2011 at 11:45:13
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Yes you can, but 2G unit needs more electric power consuption ( aka more rumors=more jitter), so SQ could be less than using a 1G unit.
Everything is important in a cMP2 system if you want reach the best result
Daniele

 

Some error correction, some reports, posted on August 9, 2011 at 04:48:00
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hi, everybody! I have some "error correction" concerning the tweaks that I proposed. First. I noted that high frequencies, though free at last came with some excessive sheen, This effect passes as soon as You (and I) put the external esata hdd on a different power line. Second To achieve the best results with the aforementioned tweaks, You don't need to edit the registry.
Now some reports. I recently managed to compare cmp with 2 nice cd players.
First was an Ayre (about $3500 in Russia), another - Gryphon Mikado (12 000 euro). In both cases cmp (with Lynx sound card) was connected with balanced cable to Gryphon integrated using Lynx's analog outs - to Tannoy and PMC speakers.
Ayre cd vs cmp was a very simple and easy case. Ayre was eaten raw without looking back. Nothing, - details, resolution, tonal truth, pace... was on Ayre's side.
With Gryphon Mikado it wasn't that easy. You cannot accuse both Lynx and Gryphon of being inattentive to analog outs, and this is where the competition really came hot. Whenever cmp with Lynx was surprising with more and more details, Gryphon would render them easily though tonally darker. Where cmp was delivering a wider stage, its opponent would deliver more depth. In short, they came "nose to nose" as we say in Russia. I cannot say that any one of them was a clear winner. The general agreement with a lot of comments was that Gryphon was more delicate and subtle, more dark. Cmp was a trifle more in-your-face, more raw and closer (with rock) to life. The resolution, displayed by both players, was very good to excellent but not extreme or "absolute". Next would come reports with Accuphase dp 67 and (if I manage to settle it with the owner) CEC zero smth transport paired with Audio Note Dac.
Wait,if interested.
Serge.
P.S. I read that many people here haven't examined the basic info concerning the Build of CMP.If You did, many questions wouldn't surface at all. At the same time, I'm glad that more people join the project.

 

RE: Some error correction, some reports, posted on August 9, 2011 at 07:21:03
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Hi Serge!
Could you give me the exact configuration of cmp2 and your audio system?
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Some error correction, some reports, posted on August 9, 2011 at 11:44:12
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I second Mihaylov.

Were you comparing 16/44 files, one from CD and one from HD (cMP)?
Or were you comparing one from CD and one upsampled to 88 or 176 kHz?

 

RE: Some error correction, some reports, posted on August 10, 2011 at 02:28:08
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 I've follow your advice about Audio codec (not registry) but in my setting I didn't notice anything different in SQ.
It seems strange to me that your cMP2 could sound how you describe, but I use always to upsampling at 24/192. With this setting I find a huge difference in SQ.
I'm curious too about your cMP2 setting & system.
Daniele

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on August 16, 2011 at 14:52:18
die-a@yandex.ru
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Joined: August 16, 2011
 Hi all. Can you help me?
Where can I find CPlay sources?
Can I remote control without wireless mouse, through sockets or other?

Thanks.

 

RE: Some error correction, some reports, posted on August 17, 2011 at 05:39:46
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hi! My system or the system cmp was tested in?

 

RE: Some error correction, some reports, posted on August 17, 2011 at 05:41:47
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hi! We compared cd to a 16-44 wav file, ripped with eac from this very cd. No upsampling for me.

 

RE: Some error correction, some reports, posted on August 17, 2011 at 05:45:05
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 I shal post exact info of my cmp next time (I am at my friend's working computer now) As I have smth much more important to post now. Read highier
Serge.

 

Cplay 2-41 or better. New Very Important tweaks part 2, posted on August 17, 2011 at 05:48:57
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody! Here is a new set of simple actions that’ll bring our cmp-cplay sound to another level.
IT IS ASUMED, that you have already removed all the audio codecs and Windows file protection, and your Windows Shows Hidden Files!!!
1. Create a TMP folder on disk c (if you don’t have one yet), or any other, that you won’t forget about.
2. Inside this folder create subfolder System32
3. Inside System 32 create 2 folders:
Dllcache and Drivers (not case sensitive)
4. Locate (use Search) the following 16 files in your real (not tmp) Windows/system32 folder AND IN SUBFOLDERS (real Dllcache and Drivers, probably in some other windows/ folder)
NOTE: Some files have doubles. NOTE 2: triples and quadruples from *.cab files are unimportant, only real files are.
THE LIST OF 16 FILES:
audiosrv.dll, audstub.sys, avwav.dll, DMusic.sys, dswave.dll, Hdaudbus.sys, Hdaudio.sys, imaadp32.acm, mciwave.drv, MMSYSTEM.DLL, msacm32.drv, msadp32.acm, msaud32.acm, MSKSSRV.sys, SOUND.DRV , dmband.dll
5. Remove (Cut) these files from their native folders to your temp folder and into corresponding subfolders (ALL THE ABOVE STEPS are only a precaution in case you won’t like the tweak and would like to put the files back)
6. Run Settings>Control Panel>
7. Find your soundcard, and check what files for ASIO it uses. (my Lynx l22 uses 2 Microsoft files and 2 Lynx wdm files). Make sure that your soundcard does not use any of the files from the “remove” list. If It does, return it to its place.
8. Reboot, listen, please write back.
NOW SOME EXPLANATION
Up till now we’ve been cleaning Windows to let the pipline Cplay>ASIO>Kernel streaming run unimpeded. Cics made a great job. However, Kernel streaming itself is clogged with attached and unreported services that are like leeches on a mermaid’s ass or like fleas on a golden fleece. These services are from Direct X, Sound services and kernel audio “helpers”. Also there are two DRM descramblers, that I don’t know how to remove yet. By removing these files, some of which are of greater, some of lesser importance, we leave our KS beauty almost totally naked and busy with sound reproduction exclusively. Make these changes, I am sure, You won’t regret. There are some more relatively unimportant files to remove, but I came almost to the limit of my poor speakers’ resolution. So please, folks with really hi res speakers, report. I especially would appreciate feedback from folks with studio monitors.
The fun goes on, it seems.
Serge.
P.S. Tested with 16-44 wavs, not tested with asio4all

 

RE: Cplay 2-41 or better. New Very Important tweaks part 2, posted on August 17, 2011 at 06:03:44
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Its great to see you continously tweaking Windows. I have one question before I try this. You said '... Find your soundcard, and check what files for ASIO it uses. (my Lynx l22 uses 2 Microsoft files and 2 Lynx wdm files). Make sure that your soundcard does not use any of the files from the "remove" list. If It does, return it to its place...'

How exactly do you do that?

 

RE: Cplay 2-41 or better. New Very Important tweaks part 2, posted on August 17, 2011 at 07:22:03
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello.Theo!
Run>Control Panel>Sounds and Audiodevices> hardware>(find your - is it Juli@,-then go > drivers...)I recollect it from memory sitting in front of a russian version of Windows Vista, so can't say exactly right now, but I am sure you will find it once you open your souncard's dialod. I am sure, by the way that no real asio soundcard uses these files.
Try, Theo. It was a real earopener. The mids are delicious. You are one of those few of us who had done all cics's tweaks, so I'm sure You will hear the difference.
Serge.

 

RE: Cplay 2-41 or better. New Very Important tweaks part 2, posted on August 17, 2011 at 07:22:22
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 The fun goes on, it seems.

Indeed it does. I haven't done exactly as you suggest but what I have done is most of the general slimming down of XP described in detail at the link below. I was doing this with an eye to fitting the OS onto (and booting from) a 1GB SD using a SD/SATA adapter with an Intel Atom mobo. What I wasn't prepared for was the dramatic difference in SQ that followed.

To what extent I have more or less inadvertently done the same as you I can't really say though I'll take a look shortly and report back. Nor can I say whether doing the exercise would make any difference on another system as I've only tried it on the one so far.

One thing I can say is that it's time consuming to do, especially Part 2 (Disabled Services) which needs also to be done with care. I've skipped most of Part 2 for the moment following repeated lock outs though I will go back to it. I'd urge that you don't even think of trying it if you don't have access to and are familiar with a good "imagefile" backup utility and that you at least think twice about trying it if you don't have a docking station.

I was planning eventually to report what I'd found but I've been sidetracked by other issues. In short, however, on the basis of my experience, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you're on to something. Thanks!

Best

Dave

 

RE: Cplay 2-41 or better. New Very Important tweaks part 2, posted on August 17, 2011 at 07:48:53
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Ok I had found it before your post and removed all the files I could find. So far yes more transparent. Sounds like more volume. I will post long term impressions after I listen for awhile

 

RE: Cplay 2-41 or better. New Very Important tweaks part 2, posted on August 17, 2011 at 08:57:09
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 More listening impressions after 1 hour of listening. More highs & air and all but I found it bit overdone so I backed off on my panel crossover a bit. Once this adjustment was made I was ok with it and yes more air, more mids/upper mids definition. It is definitely more transparent in the positive sense of the word. More to come.

 

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