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cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO

41.183.0.21
Posted on May 5, 2008 at 12:31:58
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cPlay

The open source high-end audio player using ASIO

May 2008

cPlay delivers high quality audio playback using ASIO 2. Playback is achieved using any ASIO compatible soundcard. cPlay is a minimalist audio player using the latest high quality SRC resampler (Best Sinc SNR 145.68db or 121.33db) or SoX (VHQ or HQ). cPlay's design offers state-of-the-art ASIO-only playback and caters for touch screen users. Installation, setup and use is easy. cPlay is built in c/c++ and operates on Windows XP SP2 Professional (32 bit).

FEATURES

  1. Resampling is sourced from LibSampleRate (version 0.1.5) and SoX 14.2.0 under GNU GPL license. LibSampleRate is aka SRC (Secret Rabbit Code) and supersedes the version as used in foobar2000. Best Sinc converter now offers a SNR of 145.68db or 121.33db (versus 97db). SoX VHQ offers better than 170db SNR. Resampling is bypassed when input rate matches output.

  2. Supports Steinberg's excellent ASIO 2 and is backward compatible to prior ASIO versions (as required by ASIO drivers).

  3. Offers high quality 64 bit double precision digital volume control (in 0.5db steps). This can be bypassed.

  4. Playback is achieved through .cue, .wav or .flac files. cPlay loads entire .wav or .flac (decoded) into RAM before starting. Playback is done directly from cPlay's internal buffer. Cue playback requires .cue files as created by EAC (single or multi file standard).

  5. Ensures efficient CPU resource utilization allowing for low specification processors or high levels of upsampling. This means CPUs can be underclocked / undervolted.

  6. Supports up to 3 ASIO soundcards with each having up to 100 output channels.

  7. Advanced optimizations are applied (if available from ASIO driver) during playback.

  8. Best results achieved when using cMP (i.e. cMP²). This allows for low level Windows optimizations. Use cMP release 1.0 final or later as this allows for bypassing RAM load in cMP (set RAM Load in cMP Settings to No) otherwise wav file is RAM loaded twice. cPlay allows for both svchost and lsass to be suspended during playback thus reducing the Windows footprint. Only exception is EMU's ASIO driver which requires both (svchost and lsass) to be operational. Set cMP's Optimize setting to Critical.

  9. Full remote control is achieved with cMP: offering volume control, track navigation, next/previous and stop/eject via (wireless) mouse.

USER MANUAL

Visit cMP² website (http://www.cicsMemoryPlayer.com) for more details and setup.

Screen Shot




GETTING STARTED

Download cPlay's installer here (1.3MB). Installation and startup is straight forward.

If you don't have an ASIO compatible soundcard, use ASIO4ALL. Note that ASIO4ALL does not support channel mapping (use default) and rarely handles above 48k sample rate.

Your feedback will help guide cPlay's future development. Source code (4.1MB) is available via email.

 

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RE: Just checked XP Pro: Local User & Groups won't set LOCK privilege., posted on June 11, 2008 at 11:51:03
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 thanks for checking!

 

RE: what does 45nm mean? & other comments, posted on June 11, 2008 at 12:00:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Intel 45nm technology is a useful site for understanding the importance of 45nm. VIA chipsets have very low power consumption. This is important.

There should be no issues whatsoever with Juli@ at 48 samples (lowest latency) - the problem you had is strange!

Upsampling: At 121db SNR, SRC is brilliant. At 145db SNR, SRC is achieving extreme levels of perfection. My experience suggests a better midrange (in my 2nd setup).

 

RE: I'm able to RAM load via multi-file cue sheet to ~1GB using b16. Windows fails thereafter., posted on June 11, 2008 at 12:02:53
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Using System Cache is important. Windows won't give you the full Available RAM with AWE.You should get close to 1GB allocation.

 

B17's performance, posted on June 11, 2008 at 12:36:38
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Yes, overall resolution improves. Setting phase 0/180 is very important - polarity errors in recordings is surprisingly common.

In my reference setup, b17 using SRC@121db SNR, 96k and AWE gives:
  • more detail (which I didn't think was possible!)
  • cleanest (tight and articulate) bass so far
  • mids have more definition and dynamics
  • cleaner highs
  • vocals have amazing presence
  • excellent tonal decay ☺


In my second setup I have SRC@145db SNR, AWE and 192k (analogue outputs directly to powered speakers). All above comes through and slightly more engaging and natural midrange.

I'm still learning B17's performance using tracks I'm familiar with. To hear new detail together with overall naturalness is hugely enjoyable. Nothing I've tried in the past could do this.

 

What do you think of these MB's, posted on June 11, 2008 at 15:04:47
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

Looking around for compatible MBs with VIA chipset I find:

ASUS P5VD2-VM SE LGA 775 VIA P4M900 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131199

It's cheap! I see the chip review article was using an ASUS MB.

Trying to help (ineptly, I'm sure)

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: B17's performance, posted on June 11, 2008 at 16:15:45
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 Hi Cics,

You are right again... I just re-install b13 and I hear the difference immediately. B17 excels in clarity, and in b13 the punch of music seems being chopped.

However the CPU consumption is still a consideration. With AWE, cplay takes up >50% CPU time from time to time and the occasional clicks/pops return :( I suspect that CPU at 6MB cache will be able the compensate the reduced clock speed, i.e. use 8400@lower speed rather than 7200@higher speed.

Lower clock speed is critical at my motherboard (maybe Commando motherboard is too noisy) and I can easily hear the difference between 840Mhz, 1.2Ghz and 1.5Ghz

 

Mobos of interest, posted on June 12, 2008 at 03:21:39
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Northbridge chipset to go for is Intel's G31 (offering lower power consumption and plenty performance).

Gigabyte GA-EG31M-S2 may even better Biostar P4M900-M7 SE mobo. Another alternative may be Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L - nice reviews at Newegg.

GA-EG31M-S2 on paper seems better than GA-G31M-S2L offering better power supply to CPU. Your thoughts?

 

RE: Just checked XP Pro: Local User & Groups won't set LOCK privilege., posted on June 12, 2008 at 07:29:10
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 If I install xp sp 3 will that give me the capability to get Lock Privileges?

 

Should do. Make sure its XP SP3 Professional., posted on June 12, 2008 at 07:35:37
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

With cMP's sw (optimize critcal), you'll get no clicks or dropouts., posted on June 12, 2008 at 07:42:46
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 You can run cMP on your setup in XP mode.

One of my CPU cores is consistently at ~93% at 192k output and not a single click when using cMP! Without cMP, there's no chance.

 

RE: Should do. Make sure its XP SP3 Professional., posted on June 12, 2008 at 09:07:48
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 is this it?

Windows XP Service Pack 3 Network Installation Package for IT Professionals and Developers

 

Should I give it a try?, posted on June 12, 2008 at 12:17:14
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 The MB is not terribly expensive, easily a justifiable expense in the cause of better music reproduction.

I guess I want reassurance that the e7200 is the way to go. No need for the e8200 which was suggested by another enthusiast?

I am ready to give this a try.

Awaiting your instructions!

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Should do. Make sure its XP SP3 Professional., posted on June 12, 2008 at 16:38:31
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 No. Newegg offers XP Pro SP3 for $140. I use SP2 but have received good feedback from SP3 users.

 

YES with E7200, posted on June 12, 2008 at 16:45:30
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 BIOS will have slight differences.

A new Windows installation is necessary.

For SRC@145db SNR and 192k output, this setup would support underclocking and undervolting. It's also a very good idea to add a second RAM module - to enable dual channel access, i.e. get another exact RAM module as you currently have (giving 2GB RAM). Allow for good burn-in time. What PSU are you using?

 

Have you decided which MB you like better?, posted on June 13, 2008 at 09:18:24
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

The slightly cheaper one you seemed to like better is the one (naturally) I would order unless you have firmed up your recommendation.

Is there something about the GIGABYTE you like over the other companies also using the INTEL G31? Just wanting to be sure, especially when an install is required. Though I've got so used to that now, I should be able to do it without the instructions, but I still need the instructions!

The more I listen to #17 its superiority comes through. I do believe what I thought I was missing was a pleasant distortion. #17 is beautiful.

I am using the power supply I asked you about, the ENERMAX MODU82+ EMD625AWT 625W ATX12V Ver.2.3. It is very quiet and I like the idea of a strong supply loafing along. Whether it sounds any better than the "thermaltake", I did not do any back and forth. Excuse my lack of scientific analysis for this. They claimed they were using premium parts in the thing and I took the bait. I also like not having to cut off cables. If you do not need them you can leave them off.

I still cannot get my onboard USB (w/ Granite supply) to work. I have made sure, ten times, that all is connected correctly and it still will not work. What do you do with the "fifth" wire? I wonder if this is where I go wrong. Mine is not connected to anything.

I am using the TDK filters, though I am sure it would be better to do it RIGHT.

I will get a pair of 1gB memory cards and use the existing one in my regular computer. Did you say that these are matched when bought in pairs or am I dreaming (again).

Your thoughts are NEEDED and appreciated!

Thanks!!!

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Have you decided which MB you like better?, posted on June 13, 2008 at 10:09:34
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Gigabyte GA-EG31M-S2 would be my choice as it offers improved power supply to CPU and there's a new power management feature that may prove useful.

Your 625watt PSU presents another option which would work with your current setup. You could get an E4300 and run it standard with RAM set to 200MHz. This is very similar to an E6300 without some features. I have the E6300 do 192k with RAM at 200Mhz - no problems. This is easier - just do "Load Optimized Defaults" in BIOS and reapply all changes.

On GD USB port, try having HID service running, check PSU is connected (use a USB powered device to check), check data connections.

Yes RAM is best purchased in matched pairs.

I have my 2nd cMP in the reference setup (using 700watt PSU and underclocked E6300 doing 96k at 145db SNR). Everything as noted in "B17's performance" with added midrange beauty - absolutely stunning!

 

Those processors do not seem to be available, posted on June 13, 2008 at 11:08:38
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

I looked on NEWEGG and the processors recommended seem to be unavailable.

The GIGABYTE board, the e7200 and the matched RAM, if this results in the best possible implementation of cPLAY and CMP, I will go with it. I was not complaining about the re-install. I want to go with what you think is the best approach.

Now, I am confused (again). Please tell me what you think is best. If you do, indeed, prefer those other processors advise where I could find them, please.

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

Best: Gigabyte mobo+E7200+matched 1GB RAM (2x512MB), posted on June 13, 2008 at 22:41:48
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 That's what I'm planning to implement.

 

RE: cPlay 1.0b17 Released, posted on June 14, 2008 at 06:01:39
audioAl
Audiophile

Posts: 1462
Location: So. Texas
Joined: December 16, 2007
 Great Info,Thanks
Now I Understand

 

Intel e8190 & RAM latency, posted on June 16, 2008 at 09:40:44
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

Since you got us started looking at new implementations it is easy to get side-tracked.

Just for fun as I was looking at the INTEL stuff I saw something called a e8190 which seems to be an e7200 with higher buss speed and more L2 cache. Now, of course, I have no idea if this is good or bad and my curiosity has got the best of me, so I am asking. It is also a 65W processor. Just wondered if this could be a, yet, better choice?

It does not seem to be available at the moment which could make it all a moot point. (stab at wry humour)

I assume one should get the RAM with the lowest latency? How great a disadvantage of getting 2 - 1gB cards? It seems to have jumped back and forth, just to be on the sage side, especially if one were to load some 96K 24 bit files into the system.

Just want to be sure.

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

Can you give us the magic of b9 back ?, posted on June 16, 2008 at 12:04:46
frennekamp@netcologne.de
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: November 18, 2000
 I have checked it back and forth...i checked this with b12 and b17: B9 is the best, most magical version so far in my eyes. It adds a kind of 3D-holographic effect and a "it's simply there-clarity" and micro-dynamics, which are lost in later releases.

I do not use any upsamling in the PC, this as well destroys micro-dynamics and makes everything more flat, less 3D. My DAC (RAKK-DAC with passive-Output-Stage) does the upsampling (but could as well accept up to 192khz as inpput).

My system is quiet high-resolution (Soulution 720, Pass F4 in bridged mode with cost-no-object-DIY-components in there and a Line-Source with Ribbons and Eton-Chassis)...and I highly appreciate your effort, this is the byfar best sounding player, compared it again iriver (ver high resolution, but a bit mechanical sounding; Foobar with KS, a bit less mechancal, but still not as smooth and 3D, Album-PLayer: I love the touch-screen-GUI, wonderful; but I don't get the Asio-Option to work, so it sounds low-resoluted).

 

And to think I thought #13 was the magical one!, posted on June 16, 2008 at 12:51:15
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 But, after many more hours of listening and perhaps becoming acclimated I am satisfied that cics ear's have made the correct choice.

Of ocurse, taking a systems approach it could well be that #9's strenghts (and weaknesses) make for the mythical synergy with your set-up which certainly sounds formindable.

I. too, am using the RAKK DAC #2, in my case, but with Davenport's tube line stage instead of the transformer set up. I am using Edgar horns so my set up prefers a more laid back source, need TAD 4001's no help with transients, some might say they CREATE transients.

I, at first, missed something about #13, which may have been akin to #9, there was a greater sense of dimension, but I have come to believe this was not what is on the disk, in fact, there seemed to be a bit of a sparkle in the background, like disk noise on LP's exagerating a sense of space, in my opinion.

I would say stick with #17 for a week and then go back and see what you think.

On second thought you did not specify how faithfully you have followed the protocols for your music computer's et-up. I bet, without dismantling all of the unneeded services could effect how well the upsampler works and sounds. I am using the recommended JULI@ card and upsampling to 192K before sending to the RAKK DAC. I have been dazzled by the sound I am getting. I would have never thought I would be listening to this quality of digital sound. Figured that quality was way over my head, money wise.

Excuse me if my suspicions are wrong, but if you have not followed the instructions to the letter you are not hearing what cics has created.

Cordially,

Rick McInnis
Grateful listener

 

RE: And to think I thought #13 was the magical one!, posted on June 16, 2008 at 15:35:12
frennekamp@netcologne.de
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: November 18, 2000
 Yup, you are wrong...this is a PC build and configured exavtly using Cics advise...as well with the Juli-Card.

Any yes, you ra re right, I am talking about this extra dimension, which makes it magical (B9)...in my setup, it is extremely natural and simply helps your brain to accept this realismn of sound more easily. The newer versions sound more like a reproduction to me...but I am glad, that I am not the only one realizing that there is this difference.

 

RE: And to think I thought #13 was the magical one!, posted on June 16, 2008 at 18:54:05
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 I think if CICS can let us change the .ini file or UI to customize the different settings between b9 to b17 then it would be great. I look forward to study the source code once the final version has released, and maybe we can help comment as well.

Personally my best experience come from cics AOBCT 0.3 + cMP 1.0 + cplay b17. When I use RME 9632 -> Benchmark -> Beyer DT990 Headphone, the difference between b17 and b13 can be distinguished, and B17 has the best resolution among all versions. Good resolution what I think a player's responsible for. For alternating the "taste" of the sound I think it is best to allow us fine tune it ourselves. Frankly speaking for playback of male voice, I prefer b13/b9, but for symphonies or complex instruments b17 is still the best.

And I just guess that if your back end equipment has such high resolution, it might be worthwhile to use a "good" sound card, e.g. RME or Lynx or above. Working at 96Khz-192Khz is CPU intensive and alot of electric noise is generated that will impact sound quality.

 

Excuse my incorrect assumptions, posted on June 16, 2008 at 19:54:28
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear Frennekamp,

I am pleased to hear you have followed the program. Please excuse my jumping to conclusions.

I, too, to repeat myself, thought I was missing something with #17. Maybe my speakers weaknesses are similar to cics's and we are both hearing systems that work better with #17. I must admit it just as easily could be that I am so enamored with cics and his project that when he says THIS IS BETTER I believe him and hear it as such. I like to think I am an unbiased listener but I do wonder about my ability to be SURE of what I am hearing at times.

I find myself getting so wrapped up in the performance that I forget that I am supposed to listening for differences and I end up simply enjoying music. Something to be said for that, too.

With these comments I defer to both your and APPLETEAPOT's assessments.

cics is simply one of the most generous men I have ever had the pleasure of knowing; though only within this very formal situation. He has been extremely helpful. He has important responsibilities and yet, luckily for us, has a love for music as his preferred leisure activity, along with the beautiful little girl whose picture has accompanied the AOCT instructions and the software. I would suspect he would attempt to supply what it is you would like to help him further assess how to finish cPLAY.

In the meantime I will gladly follow where he leads me with much gratitude. I trust those ears.

Thanks to all who have taken this project seriously and have made constructive criticism and most importantly to cics,

Rick McInnis

 

I am completely with you, posted on June 17, 2008 at 06:43:18
frennekamp@netcologne.de
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: November 18, 2000
 I am completely you...what Cics does for us is absolutely WONDERFUL. I was really thinking to get the big DCS-GEar, but I wanted really a modern system with all the convenience possible. I am as well totally impressed how small DACs like the RAKK can sound like big gear (mine beat an Accuphase DC-801, which I own as well) based on CICS's developments.

It would be indeed wonderfull if we can have a switch between the two versions, because I really hope that Cics continues to deveop the player and I want to follow the development path, especially when he starts to improves the GUI...meant as a wish, not a complaint.

The ideal player would offer a GUI like Album-PLayer fitting to a touch-screen.

 

RE: Best: Gigabyte mobo+E7200+matched 1GB RAM (2x512MB), posted on June 17, 2008 at 19:24:32
Frodan
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Joined: May 24, 2008
 Hello cics,

I am following with interest and getting ready to test a Biostar M890 with an E2140 processor.

I seem to recall that you preferred using the Biostar MB because of the on board RAID which allowed us to not use the IDE subsystem in Windows XP. Is there something that has changed since then as the Gigabyte has no onboard RAID?

Frodan

 

RE: And to think I thought #13 was the magical one!, posted on June 17, 2008 at 20:11:19
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 One way to solve the upsampling CPU load is to do the upsampling when loading the wav file to RAM disc. But the amount of RAM has to be sufficient to hold the upsampled file.

 

RE: And to think I thought #13 was the magical one!, posted on June 17, 2008 at 21:40:53
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 Hi ackcheng,

In the latest version B17, AWE is used to lock the RAM, and latest version of SRC is used. When I run b17, SRC at 96Khz, CPU usage is at about 40-44%. There is no clicks and pops. In comparison, old pre b17 SRC at 96Khz consumes about 15% CPU. My PC is currently running at 900Mhz, RME hardware latency at 64.


------------------------

AWE sucessful

RAM allocation (44MB) successful

DSP Started.

Play starts after RAM load (available 1441MB, system 2047MB).
Volume ( 0.0db, phase 0)
SRC (0, 96000)

 

RE: Best: Gigabyte mobo+E7200+matched 1GB RAM (2x512MB), posted on June 17, 2008 at 23:20:13
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Biostar (rather use P4M900 and not P4M890) cannot run E7200 processor. Gigabyte mobo recommended is very new but offers similar features to the Biostar. E7200 is essential for highest quality SRC upsampling (145db SNR).

 

cPlay 1.0b18 Released, posted on June 17, 2008 at 23:31:07
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Change Log (final beta release):

  1. Settings caters for all options (Upsampler, AWE & cMP)

  2. Tuning changes due to SRC at 145db SNR and b17 efficiencies


Please REMOVE previous versions before installing cPlay 1.0b18.

Details and setup of AWE is available in cPlay 1.0b17's release notes. There's no need to manually change .ini file with b18.

 

RE: Best: Gigabyte mobo+E7200+matched 1GB RAM (2x512MB), posted on June 18, 2008 at 12:33:48
Frodan
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Joined: May 24, 2008
 The Gigabyte GA-EG31M-S2 does not have an onboard RAID controller. Wouldn't a board like the GA-VT890P using the same VIA P4M900/8237S chipset as the Biostar suit better? Another board might be the GA-G33M-DS2R which uses the Intel G33 chipset and has onboard RAID as well.

Has the requirement to use RAID to disable the IDE drivers in WinXP been eliminated or are you thinking of not using the onboard SATA ports at all and using either a seperate PCI-E SATA RAID controller or some other form of storage, such as an outboard bootable USB or network based drive?

I was working with the Biostar because I happened to have access to one cheap but will now go to a more recent option as I do need it to do HD Video as well as sound. (Using a multiboot config for optimised versions of XP). I have yet to obtain a CPU however and the E7200 sounds like an excellent solution for low wattage yet quite powerful CPU.
Frodan

 

Got the recommended stuff today, posted on June 19, 2008 at 07:51:13
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

Got the recommended MB and processor today.

I hope I got the right memory, KINGSTON 512Mx2|KST KVR400D2N3K2/1G R. This had the lowest latency though I could have had higher latency with more speed. Was my choice correct?

Will get it working ASAP. I guess I will not be able to resist starting off with #18.

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Best: Gigabyte mobo+E7200+matched 1GB RAM (2x512MB), posted on June 19, 2008 at 08:06:30
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 With RAM playback using either cMP's method of loading into System Cache or even better through cPlay, benefits of using RAID (no IDE) is done away. The only remaining benefit of RAID is reduced RAM load time as sequential disk reads is much faster. With SSDs this benefit will also be done away with as SSD's offer significantly faster read speeds. SATA is used.

Avoid G33 chipset as it uses slightly more power.

 

cPlay 1.0b19 Released, posted on June 19, 2008 at 08:11:44
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Change Log (final beta release):

  1. Tuning changes


Please REMOVE previous versions before installing cPlay 1.0b19.

 

RE: Got the recommended stuff today, posted on June 19, 2008 at 08:23:18
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Rather go with the recommended RAM in cMP's FAQ:

Kingston HyperX 1GB: TWIN PACK (2X512MB): KHX6400D2LLK2

Compare both B18 & B19.

Note that some BIOS changes done on Biostar cannot be done using the G31 chipset as used on the Gigabyte mobo. Also with the G31 chipset, you should see ~50MB more Avail RAM (more efficient VGA RAM allocation).

 

HYPERX seems to be in short supply, posted on June 19, 2008 at 09:35:33
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

It turns out I could not have got that if I had looked at the cMP FAQ (which I should have, of course. I figure my repeat questions might be of use to others; is that excuse acceptable?) This seems to be out of stock at NEWEGG. I tried another shop and they, too, were out of stock. Until I can get the specified package I will get to know what I have.

When the HYPERX becomes available again I will see if there is a difference between the two qualities of memory.

I will start with #18 (it will take all of my willpower to not go with your latest version). Sunday evening I will make the change to #19. I will start with SRC=0.

I am very excited about hearing what this can do.

I will let you know Monday morning.

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

Any reason why GIGABYTE board will not accept JULI@?, posted on June 20, 2008 at 19:18:50
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

I finally got the opportunity to install the new board this evening and as soon as I insert JULI@ nothing will happen. I take JULI@ out and all is normal.

Could there be some kind of conflict?

I( have installed it in digital only format. It does seem hard to believe that it would be recognized with the analog part attached but I will try that tomorrow. As usual, I am hoping you know what to do! On re-reading I want to re-emphasize, the monitor screen remains black and the little LED's on the board keep flashing. I wish I knew what these are signifying.

Very disappointing.

The BIOS is quite different. I have done what I think is right but look forward to your guidance with this.

THANKS!!!

Rick McInnis

 

On Gigabyte mobo, use PCI slot 1 (closest to CPU), posted on June 21, 2008 at 02:12:52
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 This ensures soundcard gets dedicated interrupt.

Also, you MUST install Juli@ before implementing minlogon (which should be done last).

 

I had tried both slots, posted on June 21, 2008 at 09:12:23
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

This has been mystifying.

I had left it last night in frustration, now even without JULI@ inserted it is doing the same thing, which is nothing.

I will try booting with WINDOWS disk.

Before inserting JULI@ initially I had made some BIOS changes. I very well could have done something that is causing my problem.

I had tried both slots, and this made no difference though I do realize you are recommending the near slot for other reasons.

I will re-set BIOS, insert JULI@ into the CORRECT slot and see what happens!

As you well know, I will keep you posted and pestered with my need for assistance.

I am very anxious to hear what this can do.

THANKS!

Rick McInnis

 

by the way ..., posted on June 21, 2008 at 09:17:24
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

Have you started using this MB yet? Just wonddered if you had got one yet.

Also, I am nowhere near MINLOGON. I always make that the last thing I do. I have attempted to go my own way only to find I should have stuck with your instructions. I follow the papers as directed now.

At this point, to repeat, with JULI@ "installed" I get nothing but a blank screen, so no need to get anywhere close to implementing MINLOGON.

 

Reset BIOS using 'Load Optimized Defaults', posted on June 21, 2008 at 12:06:39
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Then reboot without soundcard.

After Windows starts successfully, only then install soundcard.

I have E7200 and the other Gigabyte mobo (GA-G31M-S2L) - currently burning-in. Newer mobo is not yet available. What I can say now is the E7200 processor is simply outstanding (low power, low heat, fast)! Getting the right mobo is my next step.

 

Something is wrong, posted on June 21, 2008 at 13:23:42
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

When I could not get ANYTHING to happen (by this I mean the monitor does not display anything, those 4 LED's on the MB near the processor just flash continuously) so I removed the MB battery for 15 minutes (I was doing other things) replaced it, nothing has changed.

I removed the processor and made sure it was absolutely centered in the socket. I removed and replaced the memory (tried both the HYPER X 1gB and the "regular" 2 x 512 mB) nothing gets the machine to do anything.

Last night I had got about half way through "optimizations" before trying again I had originally installed the JULI@ card on the new board and found then that nothing would happen. I then took it out and got BIOS to come up. I then installed WINDOWS (even though without re-installation cMP came right up, though I could not use it since there was no JULI@).

After doing a few pages of AOCT instructions I installed the card again (so many opportunities with all of the re-starts). Nothing, just like before, would not go to BIOS screen, monitor screen is blank, the on/off switch is orange, not green as it would be if it was receiving something. I remove JULI@ and I get the same thing, nothing. And it has stayed this way since.

Do you think the MB has a problem or the processor? I have a very slow fan connected to the CPU FAN header, it comes on. Those four LED's come on and just flash. They say something about CPU phase. Does the CPU have anything to do with the board displaying the BIOS stuff?

I figure something has failed. What do you think?

To repeat, before this final crack up, the machine turned on and off, at least, eight times with no glitches.

Very disappointing.

I dread having to deal with returning a dead whatever it is. I hope you can tell me where I am going wrong.

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

Try another CPU (E2140). If same problem then mobo is faulty., posted on June 21, 2008 at 14:39:24
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 This could also be a BIOS issue - try contacting Gigabyte support.

From what you explained, the mobo is the problem.

 

I read your mind, posted on June 21, 2008 at 15:45:15
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

I came downstairs to tell you I had substituted the e1200 (I hope that is just as valid as the e2140, which I am using in the computer I am using to write this note).

Nothing changes, I have to believe it is definitely the MB.

I do not understand what you mean by a BIOS issue.

Do you think the MB is OK just some kind of software problem? So, it is not a matter of just getting another board from NEWEGG?

I am sorry to be so pathetic but if I need to contact GIGABYTE what do I tell them? Please give me specifics, you know I am a computer dilettante!
Do I tell them there is a conflict with JULI@? Or just tell them what has happened?

AS ALWAYS, thanks for your patience and help,

Rick McInnis

 

That's a faulty mobo - NewEgg should replace it. Get Gigabuyte GA-G31M-S2L mobo instead, posted on June 22, 2008 at 06:47:39
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I'll do a separate post on how to setup the GA-G31 mobo. After some 30+ hours of burn-in, sound quality is very good and betters previous (E1200, Biostar mobo, 24/96@121SNR).

New setup allows for 24/96@145 SNR and does so with less power consumption! E7200 remains underclocked (same as E1200, ie. FSB 800MHz & CPU 1200MHz) but with lower Vcc @ 1.120V. This is amazing considering the heavy CPU performance needed for SRC 245db SNR upsampler.

 

Using SRC @ 145db SNR, posted on June 22, 2008 at 08:35:07
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Since b17, the option to use above ultra high quality upsampler is possible. This however requires much more CPU processing ability. Solution is to switch to Intel's latest 45nm processor technology, E7200. Recommended north bridge chipset in support of this CPU is Intel's G31. This combination is implemented using Gigabyte's GA-G31M-S2L mobo.

cMP2 (cMP + cPlay) using SRC @ 145db SNR betters previous best setup (Biostar P4M900, E1200, cMP, cPlay 1.0b19). E7200's suitability for audio is superior to previous best (E1200) irrespective of CPU load requirements.

Overall Setup
  1. PCI card must be installed in slot 1 (closest to CPU) to ensure dedicated interrupt. Slot 2 forces interrupt sharing - avoid this!

  2. Use high quality RAM - a minimum of 1GB is recommended. My reference setup using Zalman's TNN-300 case uses Kingston's HyperX 1GB twin pack (2x512MB: KHX6400D2UL). Make sure to use both RAM slots as Dual channel RAM acces is enabled. cMP setup gives ~920MB available RAM.

  3. Expect CPU temperatures ~25oC with fanless (heat sink only) cooling and CPU fully under-clocked & under-volted. This is room temperature stuff and reflects how much superior 45nm technology is.

  4. CPU load at 96k is ~60% with CPU fully under clocked (1.2GHz) and FSB at 800Mhz. That is, same as E1200.

  5. CPU load at 192k will be higher together with CPU clock increasing to 1.9GHz.


GA-G31M-S2L BIOS Setup
Each point below refers to BIOS menu item. Before applying BIOS changes, perform Load Optimized Defaults.

System installation can be done before or after these changes.

  • Standard CMOS Features
    Disable Drive A (floppy disk drive)

  • Advanced BIOS Features
    Disable HDD S.M.A.R.T. Capability, No-Execute Memory Protect, CPU Thermal Monitor (TM2).
    Make sure CPU EIST Function is Enabled
    Set Init Display First to Onboard
    Set Onbaord VGA to Always Enable

  • Integrated Peripherals
    Set On-Chip SATA Mode to Non-Combined
    Disable Azalia codec, Onboard LAN Boot ROM, Serial & Parallel ports
    Disable Onboard H/W LAN, SMART LAN (if not using networking functionality)
    Disable USB 2.0 Controller (if NOT using USB soundcard)

  • Power Management Setup
    Set ACPI Suspend Type to S1
    Disable PME Event Wake-Up, Power On by Ring, Resume by Alarm, HPET Support

  • PnP/PCS Configuration
    defaults used

  • PC Health Status
    Disable CPU Smart FAN Control (if no Fan is used)
    Set CPU Warning Temperature to 60oC/140oF

  • MB Intelligent Tweaker (M.I.T.)
    Set CPU Clock Ratio to 9
    Set fine control to 0.5
    Enable CPU Host Clock Control
    Set CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) to 200 - this sets FSB to 800Mhz (BIOS should reflect max CPU frequency of 1.9GHz)
    Set System Memory Multiplier (SPD) to 2 - this sets RAM speed to 400
    Make sure System Voltage Control is Manual and remaining voltages are Normal. Ignore flashing voltage warning.


Perform Save & Exit.

Using latest CPU-Z (1.45) utility, you should get:



CPU at 1.2Ghz, FSB @ 800MHz and Vcc at 1.120V. Only version 1.45 or later will recognize the E7200.



RAM settings.

Allow for at least 24 hours of burn-in.

Latency
Unfortunately, Intel's G31 / ICH7 (North / South chipset) prefers slightly larger payloads. This may be due to its superior bandwidth at 2GBps (that's 16G bits per second!) - VIA chipset offers 1GBps. Extreme low latencies give rise to minor but audible dropouts. Lowest stable latency using RME's HDSP 9652 is 128 samples. This may improve as the mobo burns-in.

Fortunately with cPlay, sound quality is not affected.

 

New recommended MB on the way ... and, posted on June 22, 2008 at 11:13:34
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

The memory you recommend, the ultra low latency HYPERX, is no longer available anywhere from my searches.

I just this morning realized this was a very specific recommendation. I had no idea there were so many versions of this available.

I was wondering what your next choice would be?

Please advise at your leisure.

In the interim I will use the 2 x 512 I got, it does specify low latency but is half the speed. What will be the likely affect of this?

Will report as soon as the MB arrives.

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: cPlay 1.0b19 Released, posted on June 23, 2008 at 00:06:17
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 Hi cics,

After 1 day of listening, the embedded CMP takes cplay resolution to a new level, however, bass seems a little bit of booming and not as tight as B17.

I am not sure whether it is caused by improvement of efficiency or just my computer's issue? I use a work horse XP to test b19, w/o AOBCT.

-------------------------------------

cicsPlay 1.0b19, licensed under GNU GPL
ASIO Technology by Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
ASIO is a trademark and software of Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH

ASIO Driver Initializing...
Name (hdspwdm)
Player ASIO version (2)
Driver ASIO version (1)
Message (No ASIO Driver Error)
Channels (inputs: 8, outputs: 8)
Buffer details (min: 64, max: 64, preferred: 64, granularity: 0)
Sample rate ( 96000)
Output Ready? Supported
Preparing buffers... successful
Latencies (input: 109, output: 222)
Hardware supports additional optimization - enabled

ASIO Driver initialized.

DSP starting...
DSP Buffer (12288 samples or 128ms/ 7.8/ 1500.0) allocation successful

ASIO Driver starting...
Input 1 [ HDSP9632 Analog 1 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Input 2 [ HDSP9632 Analog 2 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Input 3 [ HDSP9632 SPDIF L ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Input 4 [ HDSP9632 SPDIF R ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Input 5 [ HDSP9632 ADAT 1 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Input 6 [ HDSP9632 ADAT 2 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Input 7 [ HDSP9632 ADAT 3 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Input 8 [ HDSP9632 ADAT 4 ] Active (1) type (32bits)

Output 1 [ HDSP9632 Analog 1 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Output 2 [ HDSP9632 Analog 2 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Output 3 [ HDSP9632 SPDIF L ] Active (1) type (32bits) > Left Channel
Output 4 [ HDSP9632 SPDIF R ] Active (1) type (32bits) > Right Channel
Output 5 [ HDSP9632 ADAT 1 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Output 6 [ HDSP9632 ADAT 2 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Output 7 [ HDSP9632 ADAT 3 ] Active (1) type (32bits)
Output 8 [ HDSP9632 ADAT 4 ] Active (1) type (32bits)

ASIO started successfully.

AUDIO source [ G:\Master\Music Clips\Wave\Porco Rosso\Porco Rosso Soundtrack-15-Adoria no Umi he [To the Adriatic Sea].wav ]
Genre = Unknown
Artist = G:\Master\Music Clips\Wave\Porco Rosso\Porco Rosso Soundtrack-15-Adoria no Umi he [To the Adriatic Sea].wav
Album = WAV

FILE: G:\Master\Music Clips\Wave\Porco Rosso\Porco Rosso Soundtrack-15-Adoria no Umi he [To the Adriatic Sea].wav
Wav file size = 18MB
Rate = 16/44100 (2 channels)
Samples = 4859820 ( 1:50)

AWE sucessful

RAM allocation (19MB) successful

DSP Started.

Play starts after RAM load (available 1003MB, system 2047MB).
Volume ( 0.0db, phase 0)
SRC (0, 96000)

 

A bunch of questions (just clarifications--just love cicsplay), posted on June 23, 2008 at 09:15:20
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I am running xp -> asio4all-> Benchmark with cplay set at 16/44. What happens when I run 24/96 flac files? Is it downconverting to 16/44 or is it playing as 24/96? When I set cplay to 24/96 I hear a difference but not sure whether I prefer either setting (bass is better at 16/44). So if I want to get Reference Recording capability at 24/176 (I currently get good 24/96 flac performance) I was thinking of an es juli card to get 24/176 digital out through toslink or spdif. This way I could get asio 2.0 and use a toslink at 25 feet, site my Benchmark right next to my front end--get the galvanic isolation (I miss the opticis even though it didn't work for me ultimately)-- and use short xlr cables to my dbx x-over. Is too far fetched?

 

RE: Using SRC @ 145db SNR, posted on June 23, 2008 at 10:23:42
gagnem66


 
Hi Cics,

I'm about to build a system, and getting a bit confused on which mobo to use. Since my FLAC files don't all have a .cue file (and I have lots of them) I'll still have to use Foobar for a while. Is the Gigabyte board a good choice for me even if it lacks RAID ? or should I stick with a P4M900 / E1200? In short, is a Sata drive on the standard IDE that bad for audio ?

And finally, Is it okay to use CMP/Cplay with CDs ripped to multiple FLACs and cue sheet ? That way I won't have to rip again, only create .cue files.

Thanks

 

RE: Using SRC @ 145db SNR, posted on June 23, 2008 at 10:34:59
seger
 In my cMP based HTPC if I went for the gigabyte mobo and E7200 do you think my Thermaltake "Dual Power" 520/380W PSU, which I only use fanless so 380W max, will be sufficient for the best SRC upsampler in cPlay?
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Power/PurePower/w0107_108/w0107w0108.asp

Does the fan in your Coolermaster get on your nerves at all? You once said you would get the MGE Magnum 500W fanless. I never could find it in Europe at all, but I just saw it for sale in the US for $38.99, special promotion:
http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A6224501
No good for me in UK, unfortunately.

 

RE: A bunch of questions (just clarifications--just love cicsplay), posted on June 23, 2008 at 10:57:09
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
What happens when I run 24/96 flac files? Is it downconverting to 16/44...

With cPlay set to output 44.1k, all material will be converted to 44.1 - in your case, 24/96 flac will be converted to 24/44.1. cPlay's diagnostic indicates if SRC upsampling (or in your case downsampling) is done.
...Is too far fetched?

No. Toslink won't go beyond 24/96. Using RCA/BNC (mod required) will go to 24/192. If upsampling to 192k - use the new hardware specifications which allows for SRC@145db SNR.

 

B19's performance, posted on June 23, 2008 at 11:32:07
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 B19 is a new milestone! In my setup there's almost no jitter artifacts (unnatural highs, sloppy/boomy bass, masking/veiling, artificial bloom).

B18 uses a much smaller L2 cache 'footprint' which is exploited in b19. Changes in b19 goes back to my original design goals - I guess it works now given all the efficiencies gained.

Every transport has a jitter profile (with the worst being CD spinners). With computers, the 'default' environment is a source of jitter - cMP effectively addresses this and more. In a cMP setup, the audio player becomes the largest jitter source. This jitter is induced by digital logic. B19 excels here.

I would recommend doing as much of cMP's implementation in your setup. Using cMP's software (which runs on any XP computer) with Optimize set to Critical is very important.

Also, set your volume to -0.5db and not 0.0db as this allows for interpolation to occur where sound is at 0dbFS. Otherwise, clipping is done. There's far too many recordings with sound peaks regularly at 0dbFS or worse, clipped.

 

RE: Using SRC @ 145db SNR, posted on June 23, 2008 at 11:48:27
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
I'm about to build a system, and getting a bit confused on which mobo to use.

Use the Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L as suggested. I now have 60+ hours on this setup and its amazing.

Since my FLAC files don't all have a .cue file (and I have lots of them) I'll still have to use Foobar for a while.

You can play flac or wav files directly in cPlay without a cue file. Either right-click file and select Open with... or from cPlay, set the file browser to flac or wav (it defaults to cue).

Is the Gigabyte board a good choice for me even if it lacks RAID ? or should I stick with a P4M900 / E1200? In short, is a Sata drive on the standard IDE that bad for audio ?

Gigabyte/E7200 is better. RAID has no sound quality benefit since cMP (and cPlay improves this). Both cMP and cPlay avoid disk traffic during playback hence no IDE interference.

Is it okay to use CMP/Cplay with CDs ripped to multiple FLACs and cue sheet ? That way I won't have to rip again, only create .cue files.

Yes. This would be using the multi-file cue standard, i.e. a single cue sheet which contains many FILE directives (typically one per TRACK).

 

RE: Using SRC @ 145db SNR, posted on June 23, 2008 at 12:00:16
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
In my cMP based HTPC if I went for the gigabyte mobo and E7200 do you think my Thermaltake "Dual Power" 520/380W PSU, which I only use fanless so 380W max, will be sufficient for the best SRC upsampler in cPlay?

Yes. My reference setup uses the Zalman TNN-300. PSU is fanless at 350watts and system has been running 7x24 since Fri 21h00. Gigabyte/E7200 seems to consume even less power doing 24/96 upsampling at 145db SNR. Unfortunately, I don't have a power measuring device.
Does the fan in your Coolermaster get on your nerves at all? You once said you would get the MGE Magnum 500W fanless. I never could find it in Europe at all, but I just saw it for sale in the US for $38.99, special promotion:

I use it in my second cMP which outputs analogue directly to powered speakers. Very quiet fan and its not bothersome. MGE was very good (with a handy power gauge). This post points to the best PSU I've seen to date.

 

Thanks appreciate your feedback. nt, posted on June 23, 2008 at 12:11:23
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 .

 

RE: Using SRC @ 145db SNR, posted on June 23, 2008 at 13:20:24
seger
 I considered the Fortron, but was put off by the venting - more interference getting into the PC? Also in its first SPCR test it blew up on the bench! And the very high price. The specs are certainly good though.

 

Is Low Latency Memory Still Necessary?, posted on June 23, 2008 at 13:30:56
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

With the comments made about the GIGABYTE MB: is low latency in the memory still a consideration?

CONSIDERING that the HYPERX low latency memory seems to no longer be available, I am looking for guidance as to what is next best.

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

The tested unit is no longer available, posted on June 23, 2008 at 13:36:26
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I see NEWEGG has a new fanless 400W model available.

It has received good reviews from those who have bought it. It seems to hol itself together.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104035

Can handle both 120 amd 240 V input.

Looks ineresting.

Rick McInnis

 

W/O getting a soundcard like es juli how does one get asio..., posted on June 24, 2008 at 06:23:20
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 with 192 capabilities?

 

You must use an ASIO compatible card for 192k ASIO output., posted on June 24, 2008 at 09:37:57
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: Is Low Latency Memory Still Necessary?, posted on June 24, 2008 at 09:54:47
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Both low latency and RAM clock rating is important. Although RAM is implemented at lowest speed of 200MHz (with standard latencies), better quality RAM is an important factor for best sound quality.

Try RAM from Corsair, Mushkin or OCZ - all excellent choices. You may need to go for the 2x1GB option.

For Kingston HyperX, try this seller - they seem to have the 1GB twin pack in stock.

 

BUT, it is not the Ultra Low Latency, posted on June 24, 2008 at 10:42:50
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

Thanks for the link. I thought I had checked them but I guess I did not.

The real problem is finding your recommended ULL series from HYPERX. On their website they say it is no longer available.

I went through pages of GOOGLE trying to find someone who has it still in stock. I could find 1gB singles, but nowhere could I find "kits" of any capacity.

What does one lose with this slighly higher latency?

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

ULL series is not a critical factor. Version as per link also does low latency - its an excellent choice., posted on June 24, 2008 at 12:14:13
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

What happens when I set cplay to 96 and play 24/94 wav or flac?, posted on June 25, 2008 at 07:00:51
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Am I getting true 96 playback from asio4all? It seems to work and sounds very good. The asio4all control panel also says up to ' 96k ' sampling rate'.

 

New MB is faulty also, posted on June 25, 2008 at 19:14:21
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

I am starting to think I will never listen to music again.

Got the recommended MB today. Installed it AND NOTHING at all.

Changed out memory. Did nothing.

Installed e1200. Still nothing.

Reinstalled e1200 into BIOSTAR board, comes right up.

Are these GIGABYTE boards EXTREMELY fragile? I have handled both boards carefully and yet I have had two consecutive bad boards. I am very sad about this.

NEWEGG will still charge me a re-stocking fee on a BAD board, so this time I will have to wait for a replacement. I would prefer to go ahead and order again. I fear once I finally get the thing running again I will have lost all reference points. Though I have no fear it will sound very good.

Has anyone else had MB problems like this?

Can you think of something I am doing wrong? Up to now all has performed without a problem. I would think my assembly technique has only improved by this point. Oh, well.

AS always,
THANKS!!!

Rick McInnis

 

Sounds like the power switch connector is incorrectly installed, posted on June 26, 2008 at 00:57:22
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Only connect the power switch wire - leave out HDD LED, Power LED, Reset connectors.

Make sure to connect to correct pins.

 

I know the MB is getting power (unfortunately), posted on June 26, 2008 at 07:50:43
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

I have a very low speed fan I use in the summer. I know it is not ideal (one of these days I will power it separately) but at the moment I figure it tells me that power is getting to the board. I keep my house at 80 degrees, and sometimes I will leave the computer on.

When I "turn it on" this fan starts spinning. But, that is all that happens.

My other board has these surface mount LEDs that would flash. I have no idea if this board has those, but there is nothing flashing when this MB is given power.

I looked on the NEWEGG site and it seems there are others who have received this board and found theirs defective, also.

I wish there was something I was doing wrong but I think it is just a bad board. Very frustrating.

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Using SRC @ 145db SNR, posted on June 26, 2008 at 10:18:20
gagnem66


 
Hi cics, thanks for your answer, I will go with the Gigabyte/7200.
I have already bought my RAM : KINGSTON HYPERX 800MHZ DDR2 NO-ECC 2048MO LL (CL4). They came as a 2-pack.
Now do you think it would be best to use only 1 module (less power and noise) or 2 modules (benefit from dual-channel) ?

Thanks again

 

Use both RAM modules (for dual-channel), posted on June 26, 2008 at 11:24:08
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Intel chipsets perform best with dual-access.

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on June 27, 2008 at 09:19:55
seger
 Just listening to Buxtehude harpsichord album in cMP/cPlay v19, 24/192, 121SNR, AWE - breathtaking.

Some difficulty with 2nd system and emu0202USB. Diagnostics saying "ASIO start FAILED. Only 32 bit ASIO format supported." Then system/cPlay lock. Change emu to 32 bits and it's ok, and sounds wonderful. Why only 32 bits?

With the emu I have to use foobar to get at asio settings - remove the emu asio, then add again, then configure, and close foobar without playing, or the CPU maxes out and crash! But the analog output of this annoying device sounds so good, I'm keeping it.
Btw, winamp/otachan asio is playing with 16, 24, or 32 bits.

 

cPlay only supports pure 32 bit ASIO, posted on June 27, 2008 at 23:44:30
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 ASIO standard defines many input and output formats. Trying to accommodate all would compromise quality as data conversion is done in most important area of player (giving more jitter distortion). There's a way to potentially avoid this but you end up with a clumsy unmaintainable solution.

For EMU / Creative cards, never set svchost and lsass to suspend (in cMP). Your system will go into indefinite wait. ASIO settings also depend on these to be operational.

New hardware specifications allows for SNR145db option - this is pure analogue stuff and will better what you're getting!

 

Disable Intel System Devices, posted on June 28, 2008 at 09:15:50
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 System Devices
Specific to Intel's G31 chipset, you can disable these devices:



When SMBus Controller is disabled, System Restart will not work - you can only perform a System Shutdown (and power-up).

 

RE: The tested unit is no longer available, posted on June 28, 2008 at 15:19:22
frennekamp@netcologne.de
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: November 18, 2000
 I can suggest silverstone. Dead-quiet.

I had as well fortron, but these somethime introduce all kind of noise even though they are fanless.

 

RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO, posted on June 29, 2008 at 00:58:33
Frodan
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Joined: May 24, 2008
 Did a first test yesterday using an old P4 1.4ghz, doing all the optimizations that were possible, including powering the hard disk from a separate supply and turning off everything that wasn't needed. The computer was sitting in the kitchen with wires through a hole punched in the wall so I didn't have to listen to the CPU fan.

At first listen the amount of detail was simply amazing. Despite a problem tweeter in the left speaker, the sense of actually being there was uncanny. Vangelis' Mythodea CD being a very recent recording with all kinds of instruments and vocals was particularly outstanding.

I have a CD of a 60 piece orchestra playing film music for which I was in and around the orchestra when it was recorded, and this is the first time from any sound system I can recognize where all the instruments are positioned and they actually sound as I remembered.

Now am setting up the first real version using a donated Biostar P4M890 motherboard with a Celeron D1200 processor, and 2 standard sticks of Kingston 1 gbyte RAM. 2 Low Latency sticks are on the way and I will upgrade to the Gigabyte motherboard and E7200 CPU as soon as funds permit it.

I have generated a new copy of the XP Cd, putting back a few things I had removed on the previous version. I am still using nLite to generate them because it allows me to remove all the excess stuff from Windows and considerably speeds up the install process. I have also received my Juli@ sound card and can't wait to hear the results.

The only problem I have had so far is using the Raid driver that came with the motherboard, it loads properly after hitting F6 in the setup, but when Windows starts copying files to the hard disk, it can't find the driver file (viamraid.sys), somehow Windows looses the reference to it.

Now that I have something worth writing about I will post regular feedback here.




Frodan

 

That's amazing feedback, thx. RE: RAID on VIA..., posted on June 29, 2008 at 11:38:30
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Using RAID won't give sound benefit, just faster RAM load times as playback now occurs directly from RAM.

For RAID installation, you must copy VIA's XP driver files onto a floppy. Windows installation then installs drivers from Floppy Drive. Also, keep floppy in place throughout installation as Windows accesses it.

 

RE: That's amazing feedback, thx. RE: RAID on VIA..., posted on June 29, 2008 at 13:20:01
Frodan
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Joined: May 24, 2008
 I've had to ditch the Raid as Windows refused to copy the driver from the floppy even though it had loaded it after I had pressed F6. Anyways, the Gigabyte doesn't have Raid and we don't need it anymore so I'm not installing it.

BTW Almost done with this version, can't wait to listen to it.

Frodan

 

Any opion aboutthe Gigabyte GA-G33M-S2L ?, posted on June 29, 2008 at 15:05:15
frennekamp@netcologne.de
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: November 18, 2000
 ...it has the ICH9-chipset on board...?

 

Better to use G31 chipset as it uses a few watts less power, posted on June 30, 2008 at 00:56:42
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Reducing power consumption is very important - every bit helps.

Intel has done a good job with these chipsets. G31 runs cool - compare this to Qxxx range and you'd get heat stains on your chassis!

 

Want to under clock and under volt on amd anthlon 64 x 2 processor 4400..., posted on June 30, 2008 at 19:05:31
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ...but are hesitant to go into bios and reset a whole bunch of stuff (like I was)? I have a recomendation use Cool&Quiet technology from AMD. Bottom line is you select Cool & Quiet routine from the control panel and download drivers from amd and you're there. If you call for properties on my computer you can verify that C&Q is working by confirming that clock speed is now around 800 Mhz (mine went from 2.3ghz to 990 mhz. I believe stuff is also undervolted also. All of this was originally for a 'green power consumption brand tag' for amd. Yes it is dynamic but it works. And it also helps audiofiles using cplay. I found a significant sonic performance improvement. Thanks again cics and frodan. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

See link

 

RE: Using SRC @ 145db SNR, posted on July 2, 2008 at 01:32:11
ninekit


 
http://www.driverheaven.net/motherboards-networking-misc-forum/158626-gigabyte-p35-dpc-problem-possible-solution.html

DPC latency problem seems common on Gigabyte mobo, I've found the above link, hope it can solve your extreme low latency problem.

Apparently its an BIOS issue.

 

I implented AMD's cool & quiet routine to underclock/undervolt, posted on July 2, 2008 at 07:18:16
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 and it seems to work. Verfied through cpuz. However AMD's cool & quiet user guide say I also can verify by going to my computer properties and see if the cpu processor is now showing around 800 mhz (which it does not). But cpuz does. Is cpuz the preferred authority here?

BTW it does sound better.

 

Go with CPU Z - it shows correct clock speed and voltage., posted on July 2, 2008 at 10:24:48
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: Go with CPU Z - it shows correct clock speed and voltage., posted on July 2, 2008 at 10:29:41
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 thanks

 

Latency problem seems to be solved, posted on July 2, 2008 at 10:33:51
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Interesting read and yes with latest beta Gigabyte BIOS (F5d), low latency playback is stable. Will test for a while.

DPC latencies show large improvements after BIOS upgrade.

Great post! Thank you.

 

How does one install this?, posted on July 2, 2008 at 13:07:37
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

Is this installed like the BIOS drivers? Do I make a CD or load it onto a USB MEMORY stick and , ... everything is obvious, or is there something tricky about it?

I am supposed to get my MB today. I hope my luck has changed and am able to get this running tonight.

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Latency problem seems to be solved, posted on July 2, 2008 at 17:55:19
ninekit


 
Happy to share, just like what you are doing with cMP and cPlay.
May I ask if I just have 512M of RAM, are there any chance for me to enjoy cPlay?
Will it play a .cue pointing to a .flac file small enough to fit my available memory?

 

Update from BIOS menu using Q-Flash. Instructions are in the manual., posted on July 3, 2008 at 00:21:39
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Copy BIOS file (g31ms2l.f5d, 512KB) to a USB stick then access Q-Flash.

 

cPlay will work with 512MB RAM. FLAC files are decoded during RAM Load..., posted on July 3, 2008 at 00:28:05
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 thereby eliminating this CPU overhead during playback.

With 512MB RAM, available RAM would be ~420MB, cPlay's diagnostics will show how RAM is needed to load decoded FLAC file (i.e. WAV file). If you have FLAC files by track then playing individual files won't be a problem.

 

RE: cPlay will work with 512MB RAM. FLAC files are decoded during RAM Load..., posted on July 3, 2008 at 00:52:08
ninekit


 
This is a very smart way of handling available resources.
I will go check out how to construct .cue pointing to multiple .flac files then.
Thanks

 

Just listened to src upsampler in clpay and ... Oh My God, posted on July 3, 2008 at 07:21:01
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I never tried before because I didn't think it would work (running dell amd antlon dual core with underclocking/under volting; asio4all ; Benchmark). Anyway with undeclocking/undervolting upsampling to 24/96 sounds very very good no more upsample subtle hardness but bass and dynamics were a little lacking vs 16/44 setting. But src is another story--best of all worlds. When I had my wife listen to it she asked me what I bought, what new hardware did I get. When I told her nothing its the Secret Rabbit Code in cplay (which I already had but never tried)she said '...yea right!'

The imaging is spectacular not overdone just very natural. The whole soundstage is more coherent. The dynamics/bass never fail to impress. This reminds me of my younger days listening to vinyl off my vpi/ET II/ moving coil cartridge.

Thank you Cics you can never be thanked enough.

I just might go all the way and build a cmp from ground up now that I have seen/heard a glimpse of the 'top of the mountain'.

 

Up and running, but a new problem, posted on July 3, 2008 at 08:00:32
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

As always your guidance is needed.

Got the GIGABYTE/e7200 working last night.

My question is: how important is it to do a WINDOWS re-install? It seems to be doing fine without doing this.
BUT:
I cannot get the MB (I guess) to recognize that I want to use the WINDOWS installation disk. At least in my case, where before the BIOSTAR board would prompt you if you wanted to boot from the DISK, I do not see where this comes up at all!

I set my boot priority to be the USB CD-ROM drive. I know it recognizes the drive since I used it to install the GIGABYTE MB drivers.

As usual, I am missing something. I have looked at the manual to no avail. I do not doubt it is there. What am I doing wrong? I want to install minlogon and disable SFC, and if a new install would be better, I need to go ahead and do that.

What happens when one accesses the WINDOWS disk from MY COMPUTER when you are already in WINDOWS? If I install from here would it retain my HDD partition?

Sorry for all of the questions.

I listened for awhile last night but had set JULI@ latency at 48 which resulted in those blips. Inbetween those blips I could hear much promise. More AIR than ever and the seetest high frequencies, yet. Thuderous, but fully controlled bass. A giant step in resolution and listening pleasure.

Cannot wait to hear it with the BIOS upgrade. Thanks for making it easy for me.

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

more proofreading needed, posted on July 3, 2008 at 08:04:41
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 should have said sweetest high frequenices and THUNDEROUS bass.
Thuderous bass is more like what I got from the THETA.

 

RE: Just listened to src upsampler in clpay and ... Oh My God, posted on July 3, 2008 at 09:17:38
appleteapot
Audiophile

Posts: 58
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: May 21, 2008
 Gee, I totally agree with you...

Using the maximum configuration, AOBCT+CMP+CPlay, mobo underclock to 600Mhz, disable LAN, 1394 and everything else, I think this is poor man's Weiss Jason+Medea

 

RE: Up and running, but a new problem, posted on July 3, 2008 at 09:35:37
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I prefer doing a reinstall of Windows for new mobos with different chipsets. Otherwise, you'll get unpredictable results.

Try connecting ROM drive using standard IDE connector. Also, in BIOS set SATA Mode to Auto. You can always go back to the USB connection after Windows installation.

 

RE: Up and running, but a new problem, posted on July 3, 2008 at 09:54:05
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear cics,

Thanks,

I do not have an IDE cd-rom but it is certainly easy enough to get one.

I will give this a try. I will pirate one from one of the machines at work. Don't tell a soul ...

I will let you know.

THANKS,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Just listened to src upsampler in clpay and ... Oh My God, posted on July 3, 2008 at 10:07:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Use new hw specifications for new build. This gives 145db SNR performance.

Do you have FSB at 600MHz?

 

RE: Just listened to src upsampler in clpay and ... Oh My God, posted on July 3, 2008 at 12:41:25
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Which one is fsb on cpuz?

 

Interesting, with src running, processor and memory speeds go back up, posted on July 3, 2008 at 13:25:11
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ...so I am not getting underclocking with src as I do with -121 db upsampler. But -146 db upsampler still sounds better. But
I know now if I go complete cmp
(all the way) sonic performance will be better.

 

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