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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

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RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 16, 2011 at 12:35:10
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



This picture show what I got now. It is in fact, mostly internal noise of my Oscilloscope
on this range with some impedance, reading show 1-2mv , limit of my PICO.

Gene.

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 16, 2011 at 20:32:41
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Most excellent sir!

Thanks for sharing. Send completed pix when you can.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 17, 2011 at 14:55:46
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009
 Greg, Thanks, but do not expect nice pix . I lost count of my revision on this chassis !
Gene.

 

ga-h55m-ud2h , posted on January 18, 2011 at 18:25:47
rhin0z15
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Joined: August 16, 2010
 I have had this board a few days tried every thing i know to get it to post moved ram to different slots, tried two power supplies. all it does is come on for a second and turn off. before I rma thought I would ask around here since this board is recommended.

intel i530, cosair 2gig, cosair 650 watt, antec 380 watt.

are there any other recommended boards from asus never had one of them to arrive doa. I have never used a gigabyte board before.

 

RE:Good substitute Asus P7H55-M Pro, posted on January 19, 2011 at 06:48:58
rhin0z15
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Joined: August 16, 2010
 Precision Tweaker
- vCore: Adjustable CPU voltage at 0.00625V increment
- vIMC: Adjustable IMC voltage at 0.05V increment
- vDRAM Bus: Adjustable DRAM voltage at 0.1V increment
- vPCH: Adjustable PCH voltage at 0.05V increment
- vCPU_PLL: Adjustable CPU_PLL voltage at 0.05V increment
- iGPU: Adjustable iGPU voltage at 0.0125V increment
SFS (Stepless Frequency Selection)
- PCI Express frequency tuning from 100MHz up to 200MHz at 100MHz increment
- Internal Base Clock tuning from 80MHz up to 500MHz at 1MHz increment
Overclocking Protection
- ASUS C.P.R.(CPU Parameter Recall)

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 19, 2011 at 08:25:24
jackwong96


 
The L should be removed as it may create a current loop via the MOSFETS.

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 19, 2011 at 15:32:02
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009
 Thanks Jack, tomorrow will post some schema for this circut, as I trace it , comment will be usefull.
Could you please tell me your view on using same approach for CPU ?
Tnanks, Gene.

 

welcome back,,,,, posted on January 19, 2011 at 16:53:54
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 we missed you!

 

RE: welcome back,,,,, posted on January 19, 2011 at 19:06:57
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I never thought 15 words could make me so happy!

Jack, very nice to see you back here. I hope whatever has kept you away has abated and we'll get to share more of your wisdom and daring.

Anything you've done that's worth sharing?

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

could it be a RAM problem ?, posted on January 20, 2011 at 11:54:32
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey rhin0z15,

if you can´t get your mainboard starting you may experience a RAM fault.
I´ve had some instancies where even a new CMOS load did not work. the bloody thing just kept on trying, but could not boot.

changing the RAM bar helped.

make sure you use a DDR3 RAM one for this motherboard !


fingers crossed.
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

more power questions, posted on January 20, 2011 at 12:58:26
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 dear forum,

it´s also become my turn to jump into the cold water of fiddling with the power supply of my cMP2 computer even without any electric engineering exam.

first step was just to pull of the supply from the main PSU and implement a cheap 12V supply for the harddisk.
sonics improved significant.

next step was the christmas gift of a PICO XT150 to which I have now ordered a linear 12V (3 ampere) audio-customized supply.

so, before I slot in the PICO and connect it to the new PSU my concerns are following :

with already reduced voltage and CPU frequency settings on my GA-EG45M-UD2H motherboard, do I risk anything when swapping onto the new power supply ?
or should I load defaults and redo the entire BIOS power scheme after successful reboot ?

are there any grounding issues on the transition ?

thanks for all your continuous support !


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: more power questions, posted on January 20, 2011 at 16:04:14
audiodan@tiscali.it
Audiophile

Posts: 108
Location: Cagliari - Sardinia
Joined: July 7, 2009
 Hi Play-mate
your PSU system is similar to mine.
At the present time my system get:
1 Peaktech 6080 (the same of Velleman) for 12V that feed my soundboard (Asus Xonar Essence ST) and the picoPsu 150xt . The current flow is 2,1 2,2 A (2,5 during the start)
1 Peaktech 6080 for 5V that feed the soundboard too and 4 USB. It drain 1,5 A
1 Seasonic x 650 that feed SSD, external HDD and P4 running through 6000mF of Silmic II capacitors.
As you can see I don't use the pico to feed anything but the mobo.
I've modded the Linear PSU with better capacitors and I'm waiting for Belleson regulators to change the 7812 of two Peaktech.
Sound is really great, so now I'm just a bit doubtful about a full linear PSU project. Don't worry about your choice: it will works!
Daniele

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 20, 2011 at 16:15:14
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009



Jack , I did remove " L" , same consumption on +5.0 v MoBo.
Could you please take look on picture and comment on purpose of ( ? K3918 ) , for
me, look like, it connected in opposite direction.
Thanks, Gene.

 

RE: Lynx Studio L22 upgrade, posted on January 22, 2011 at 10:04:04
vangelis71
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: May 8, 2010
 Hi,
nice project. I also have a Lynx L22.
Where do you connect the "grounds" of your linear psus, on the soundcard?
Thanks

 

RE: Lynx Studio L22 upgrade, posted on January 22, 2011 at 13:12:33
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010



Hi! I did not specify it in the document because considered it obvious. The grounds of psus and soundcard are connected through the brackets grounded on the case.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: more power questions, posted on January 22, 2011 at 16:24:14
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001












Play-mate,

First, congrats on your Christmas gift! That's a fine gift... I wish I could convince my wife I needed something like that... maybe a new SSD?

Also, thanks for your report on implementing a separate supply for the HDD. That's part of the standard cMP setup, but I don't recall anyone reporting a sonic improvement from doing that... glad to have more evidence.

On your questions, first about what you risk when you swap in a new PSU... As long as you can confirm that your supply is working as it should, you are good.

But how do you do that? Here's what I do:

1st - validate the +12v out of the raw supply using a meter... doesn't have to be anything fancy.

2nd - hook up the PicoPSU to the +12v & validate it's operation with a computer power supply checker. I've attached pictures of the two I've used... the simpler one was the first I had and it just lights an LED to show that the supply is operating. The fancier one validates all the voltages and checks the delay time between initiation of power-up by pulling the PS_ON# pin (#14 on an ATX-20, #16 on an ATX-24) to ground and the supply signaling it is up and ready by putting +5v on the POWER_OK pin (#8) (see attached pin-out too).

BTW, the simpler one is branded Antec and cost me about $10 5-6 years ago, the fancy one cost about $25 early last year... I'll try to find where I got it from and post it later. If you are planning to ever do a DIY fully-linear supply, then I recommend the fancy type... otherwise the simpler type is ok.

Once you get a good result using one of these, you should be ready to power-up. BUT, I would make sure you have backed-up your settings using the BIOs facility for doing so and I would recommend backing off on the under-volting for the first test... say taking it up a 1/2 volt or so.

As for grounding, there shouldn't be any issues. Your 12v supply to the PicoPSU is grounded to the motherboard through the Pico and if you have a separate supply for the P4 +12v, it is also grounded via two of the P4 pins.

Finally, I also saw your question via email earlier today and thought I'd answer it here too...

Your separate computer SMPS for the P4 was getting it's turnon signal from the motherboard via the PS_ON# pin being pulled to ground. You can fake this by running a jumper between the PS_ON# pin (#14 on an ATX-20, #16 on an ATX-24) and one of the ground pins next to it on the ATX-20/24 connector... this is how the simpler power supply checker I have does it.

This should solve your issue with that supply.

You also mentioned the PWR pins on the motherboard. On most motherboards I've seen, there are two sets of power pins... one for the power switch, one for the power LED. You do need to have a momentary-contact SPST switch connected to the power switch pins, such as the power switch on your case. (BTW, polarity is not important, when testing power supplies with motherboards, I generally have them laying out on my workbench & just bridge these with a screwdriver or pair of needle-nose pliers).

The power LED is only an indicator and does not affect the turn-on sequencing.

Take care!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: more power questions, posted on January 22, 2011 at 16:49:06
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I got the fancy tester from www.mwave.com.

They list them for $10-$15 USD nowadays!

That's the one to get!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

Big SSD? Or, small SSD with: 1. LAN enabled? 2. external SSD/HDD?, posted on January 23, 2011 at 10:30:24
hfavandepas
 Hi all,

I finaly installed an SSD (Kingstone SSD 100 now 8Gb) in my cMP setup.
And, whow, what a jump in sound quality (SQ) !!.
On this forum I’ve red before that using a SSD would bring better SQ.
But I didn’t expect this much.
In my setup installing an SSD, equals all previously done power optimizations.
So, not just a little tiny improvement!

I deliberately chose an small SSD.
Because small = less.
And less = less power consumption.
Just like choosing less ram, improves SQ.

I created 3 little primary 2.5 Gb partitions on this little 8 Gb Kingstone SSD.
Because a regular XP installation only uses 1.2 Gb.
This grows too 1.6 Gb, after applying minlogon.
(because of the automatically created extra user account by applying minlogon)
So 2.5 Gb is more than enough space.
With 3 partitions I can easily experiment with different software (tweaks) and hear there SQ differences.
I use DriveImage XML on the UBCD for Windows CD to backup images from these 2.5 Gb partitions, too a temporarily connected HDD SATA drive. If excessive tweaking (with autoruns or registry) makes the system unstable, I can easily put back a copy of the last know good situation. (provided one regularly makes some image backups while tweaking).

I preferred an 8 Gb SSD because of : ‘less = loss power consumption = better SQ’
But…… its not enough too store music files.
So, what is the best way forward now?

- Ditch the 8 Gb SSD and install a 300 Gb SSD (separately powered by PSU which powers the dirty sphericals)
- install an extra SSD (separately powered by PSU which powers the dirty sphericals)
- install an extra external eSATA/USB/Firewire SSD (separately powered by PSU which powers the dirty sphericals)
- install an extra external eSATA/USB/Firewire HDD (separately powered by PSU which powers the dirty sphericals)
- use an network attached storage through LAN.

Any suggestions on where the music files should be stored best?
( purely based with SQ in mind)

Mark


Some background info on my current cMP setup:
* MoBo: Gigabyte GA-G41M-ESL2 (because I fried my GA-G31M with my TTi linear PSU)
* 1 Gb HyperX ram
* SSD: 8 Gb Kingstone SSD 100 now
* linear PSU -> Pico XT 150 -> P24 (with smoothing caps on 5 volt rail)
* linear PSU -> P4 (with smoothing caps)
* linear PSU -> ‘dirty’ Pico XT 150 (with smootings caps on 5 Volt) -> USB bracket: wireless mouse/ keyb. + Kingstone SSD.
* Esi Juli@ with smooting caps on 3.3 and 5 Volt ( on ‘upper bridging pins’)
Optical connection used to Lavry DAC with high quality (van den Hull) optic toslink cable.
When using the optical output, it’s very important too also use high quality optic cable.
5 euro / 7 dollar plastic toslink cables, sound really bad (and I mean: really bad !).
At first I found it hard too believe that toslink would excel coax.
But Cics is right!
When done correctly, toslink excels coax S/Pdif or even ground free transformer coupled aes/ebu (by a mile) in a computer based setup.

* Linear PSU’s are powered from separate 230 AC spur with Epcos mains filter
(preventing the linear PSU’s too spoil the 230 AC separate spur)

* Klein & Hummel O300 + Lavry Black DA 10, on a separate 230 AC spur.
(both with Epcos mains filters installed. 'Load' side facing the net)

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 24, 2011 at 08:48:31
jackwong96
Audiophile

Posts: 219
Joined: April 20, 2010



Hi Gene,

The PWM controller (the small IC on the downside of 2R0 ) does not provide enough current, so a set of MOSFET driver (K3918s on your MB) is required. Each power phase uses a driver IC, two MOSFETs and one choke (2R0 in this case).

You are pretty much done by cutting both the legs of the K3918s and desoldering 2R0. The current consumption should be a liitle bit more than before, as linear regulators are less efficient than swtiching ones. Note that it may need to supply current to the RAM and other components.

I believe the problem you've got may lies with (a) improper grounding connection for LT1083, and/or (b) inappropriate input point taken from the MB.

(a) You have two ground connections, one would suffice, better still the ground of the LT1083 should be connected to the main ground of the ATX port of the MB.

(b) I'm not sure the input of the LT1083 is correctly connected on the circuit you provided. For me, I would connect the input to the ATX 5V (or 3.3V for less heat disspation), or use a seperate linear power supply for better isolation.

You may try to lower the supply voltage to 1.8V or below for better SQ.

Good luck with your attempts.

Jack

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 24, 2011 at 09:53:55
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Jack I appreciate that you are probably busy and can't post here all the time and you probably get a lot of queries on pc stuff but I really learn a lot when I read your posts. Are there any other forums on which you post so one can follow your various projects?

 

battery-powered cMP !, posted on January 25, 2011 at 07:25:23
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 dear forum,

I think I´ve mentioned this before, but would you please have a look at this battery powered ATX module, and tell us what you think.

http://www.ocean-server.com/smallbattery.html

how viable would it be, to feed a cMP2 system this way ?

looking forward to explore this further.

kind regards
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: battery-powered cMP !, posted on January 25, 2011 at 08:40:23
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 While getting off ac mains is always desireable I believe LiFePo4 batteries are better...much lower output impedance. I have listened to Li ion batteries, lead acid, and LiFepo4 batteries and LiPo's beat them all, lead acid is 2nd then Li ion.

 

RE: battery-powered cMP !, posted on January 25, 2011 at 09:29:34
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 It is VERY interesting, but without measuring it is hard to say how ripple and tension stability are through battery.
Battery power can even be worse. Just to give you an example, I recently measured a Fit-PC2 on its USB port, which would be the bus for a possible DAC.
This is tension stability with supplied AC-12V and battery respectively:





This is ripple, again with supplied AC-12V and battery respectively:






 

RE: battery-powered cMP !, posted on January 25, 2011 at 09:39:44
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 While getting off ac mains is always desireable . . .

Designs such as John Swenson's choke-based PSUs (there are others) should give batteries a pretty good run for their money without the hassle. I forget who it was who said he was planning to try them on a cMP^2 rig.

I did hear from an inmate from, IIRC, Australia who built some and was delighted with them but, sadly, I don't think he's still on the list.

Batteries aren't necessarily as quiet as some think (though I can't speak about LiPo's - whatever they are). See e.g. link and also:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip-amps/13121-battery-powered-supplies-21.html#post187556

 

RE: battery-powered cMP !, posted on January 25, 2011 at 11:43:45
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I'm sure the Swenson PSU is a very good one. My whole point was that there are better batteries than Lithion Ion. The LiFePo4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries are a relative new discovery coming out of MIT in Boston. Variations of them are used in some hybrid vehicles now a days. My whole thing about batteries is that when used in critical digital circuits they protect the rest of the ac mains (not dumping digital noise into it) and are protected from noise on the mains best of both worlds. Yes they are a pita but Lipo's I use last 5-7 days on Juli@ and 7-9 days on the Buf32s before needing a charge. I run 3 3.3v 2.0amp rated batteries in parallel to get below 10 millohm output resistance (very fast response).

I'm sure there are excellent alternate solutions but if one is going to use batteries Lipo's are the ones.

 

Pico alternative, posted on January 25, 2011 at 12:47:08
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Thanks for your responses guys,

My recent implementation did unfortunately cost the life of my motherboard (and maybe the lynx two-B card too. not confirmed yet).
the pico XT150 can certainly not be used in conjunction with a power hungry PCI card like the lynx. it seems that the lynx requires a -12V 150mA supply which the Pico does not provide....

so that´s my main issue here : can this battery system be a serious alternative ?

more comments welcome !


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Pico alternative, posted on January 25, 2011 at 12:55:25
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I don't know the Lynx card but as you may know many of us here use the Juli@. The originator of the LiFePo4 battery idea (also used a TP Buffalo dac like I do) experimented with batteries on the digital circuit and the analogue circuit of both and said there was much more bang for the buck on using these batteries for the digital circuits. Its like the Linn philosophy: get it right at the source and pay less attention downstream. My experience has been exactly that with these LiFePo4 batteries. I would not use Lithium ion batteries though.

 

Viable Battery Solution for cMP ?, posted on January 25, 2011 at 14:46:43
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 dear theob,

before we continue the discussion about which battery type is the better one (I take your statements on LiFePo4 for granted), could you explain how these batteries have been implemented into the power regime of the computer in question ?

I think we are a bunch of cMP fans who would like to explore all the ways of making high quality power supply possible.

apart form the few tweaks, the pico way and mikhailov´s linear supply it´s very much it....
since the lynx two-B card I use is a 6 analog-out DAC, it´s obviously requiring not only ripplefree power, but also quite a lot of it ....:-)
(sadly more than the PICO can handle)

I think the device that Ocean Server is offering could be a solution to a lot of us....sort of a step up from the PICO, and I would like we could discuss this offering and it´s eventual advantages and drawbacks.

the question is : does it seem a viable solution for cMP?







Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Viable Battery Solution for cMP ?, posted on January 25, 2011 at 17:13:51
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I'm just telling you my experience with Lithium ion batteries there is no obligation to listen to me. Try it and let us know how it worked out. Mikhailov´s linear supply is not a trivial tweak it is a serious attempt.

The way I use these batteries are only for the 3.3v digital section of the juli@ soundcard period. I also use batteries on the 3.3 v digital section of my Buf32s DAC.

In my cmp I use 2 ATX power supplies for my pc (one for p24 and one for all else). I tried a linear supply for p4 and that was a pretty good mod but I don't feel the need to go back there after the 2 ATX supplies. I use the Ryelands p4 capacitor bank mod plus the juli@ 5v cap mod of Promethk.

 

Looks like a battery powered PICO to me, posted on January 26, 2011 at 09:48:30
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 One big battery powering a bunch of dc-dc converters would make sense when one wants to maximize the between charges times of the battery but next to useless for a truly upgraded power supply for a music computer.

No question, good linear regulators for each voltage rail is the only true improvement available.

If the switching supply is the problem going from an AC input to a CD input is not going to make a difference, you will end up right where you began, at best.

AS with any audio component, the more isolation, through separate power supplies, you can effect to the systems within the total circuit the better one's result. Of course, there is the point of diminishing returns but that is up to each set of ears.

Batteries are not a panacea - I wished as hard as anyone out there they were the answer to power supply problems. I have used them in many applications. But experience has taught me they offer no advantage over a good AC power supply and a whole lot of trouble.

They are not the simple answer we would all wish to exist. And DC-DC converters are not the answer at ALL.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Looks like a battery powered PICO to me, posted on January 26, 2011 at 10:21:45
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 thanks for your straight words, rick

I do acknowledge that the "Ocean" solution is similar to a PICO in design and ultimately a compromise.
maybe it´s just the dispointment that the TX150 PICO module cannot run my cMP computer, but it´s of course significant that I get a solution. -especially because my 6 channel DAC´s are integrated in the computer PSU.

we still have to find a linear supply for the ATX...and as I can read between the lines, it seems simply not done with a battery based supply.

okay, back to square one....


kind regards


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Linear 1.85v to DDRII for G31M-S2L, posted on January 26, 2011 at 16:11:10
gene_
Audiophile

Posts: 39
Location: South London
Joined: November 22, 2009
 Hi Jack,
Thanks for yours schematic and explanation .

Total power consumption on 5 volt MoBo line , did increase actually on power
dissipation on LT1083 - 6 WA , 3 volt between in -out needed for LT1083 for good
performance . In my cMP 3.3 volt line feeded by small battery , so I need feed
from 5 volt.

Will try take from MoBo 5 volt , and reduce to 1.75 v .

Still waiting for delivery rest of LT1083 !
Gene.


 

Powering a cMP..., posted on January 26, 2011 at 19:00:02
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 The second most-important thing I've learned playing with my cMP over the last 2 years is how important the power supplies are in making a good-sounding piece of audio gear. Even on something like a cMP's computer. Even on seemingly un-important pieces like the harddrive, USB port, and monitor power.

And the third-most important thing I've learned is that most power supplies for computers and other consumer-grade and business-grade electronics are very poor-sounding supplies indeed. They are just not designed with sound-quality in mind.

I think we should consider ourselves lucky that a PicoPSU with a decent 12v raw supply is a considerable sonic upgrade over a consumer-grade computer power supply. Given what I know now, I would not have expected that.

The sound quality provided by a well-implemented PicoPSU strongly suggests to me that a DC-to-DC converter of the type they use does not pollute the outputs and inputs with as much noise as a normal SMPS does starting from a 120v/240v AC input. So there's hope for the Ocean Server solution. But do remember that people have reported that only the non-WI versions of the PicoPSU result in a sonic improvement, so it's only a limited subset of this type of supply... and no guarantee that this is one of them.

I say all this because while I have no direct evidence that would say the Ocean Server DC123SR is a poor-sounding supply, my experience would suggest that it is likely not a good-sounding one. Might be worth a try, but at about $700 for a starter setup (and I suspect you'll want a larger battery), it's an expensive gamble.

Then on the discussion of battery versus AC powered supplies, I am definitely in the camp of those who feel that while a battery supply can sidestep some of the problems inherent in an AC-powered supply, the battery brings it own set of problems and adds a set of constraints on usability. And in my experience, good design can at least largely if not completely mitigate the AC-powered supply problems. So I don't see battery power as a slam-dunk to a superior-sounding power supply. (And the Swenson supply scheme that Ryelands mentioned is one of the most-reasoned and best solutions to overcoming the deficiencies of an AC-powered supply compared to batteries. But for a fully-linear cMP supply with multiple raw supplies, it will be large, heavy, and expensive. I'd also corresponded with the fellow in Australia who had a Swenson-design-based linear supply built for him and it was somewhat of a compromise with just two raw-DC supplies, one powering the 12v P4 and the other the 12v/5v/3.3v ATX-20/24... and it was about as large and heavy as my setup with five seperate raw-DC supplies for the same solution. But I suspect it was very good... and someday I intend to go to that too! But as Ryelands pointed out, I WILL stick with standard EI-core transformers, preferredly split-bobbin to minimize noise transmission. Toroidal transformers are just not as good in this type of application.)


Raymond in Australia's Swenson-based-design linear supply:




My linear supply:




In any case, bottom line is that there's no guarantee that the Ocean Server ATX-20/24 solution will sound good and having it battery-powered won't necessarily make it sound better.

On types of batteries, low output impedance and low noise are important factors in how good any supply sounds, battery or AC sourced. I've heard of others listening tests that strongly agree with Theob's and suggest that LiFePo4 cells sound better than lead-acid or any of the nickel-based cells. See this info from battery-power proponent, Red Wine Audio: http://www.redwineaudio.com/products/lfpv-edition .

I do want to point out that LiFePo4 are a distinctly different cell type from a LiPo battery, which is the soft-packaged cell that most of us have in our cell phones (and that I also use in my high-powered model airplanes). I'm not sure if one of these two types of lithium-based cells are better-sounding than the other... in model airplane use, LiPos are used where the greatest power-to-weight is needed, LiFePo4s where a more economical, sturdier, and safer cell is needed. None of these factors have any bearing on how they sound. Still, the LiFePo4 are a much safer cell type and I'd recommend them to most people over LiPo, even if I saw evidence that the LiPo sounded better (LiPo can violently burst into flame under a lot of conditions, something LiFePo4 don't do as readily). Li-Ion cells (as used in many laptop power supplies) are much lower current cells than either of these two other Lithium types which means a higher output impedance and generally poorer sound.

But this is all in answering your asked question. Your unasked question is 'what's the best bang-for-the-buck real-world solution for powering my cMP setup and getting the best sound I can'. Is this a good summary of your un-asked question?

The two largest improvements I ever heard during my cMP hardware upgrades were 1) upgrading from my modified computer SMPS to the linear P4 supply and the linear/hybrid PicoPSU ATX-20/24 and 2) implementing separate power supplies for my sound card. Even going from the linear-linear/hybrid to a fully linear supply did not produce as large of a sonic improvement (although the fully linear IS a strong improvement over the linear/hybrid, the difference from the modified computer SMPS to the linear/hybrid was greater!)

With this in mind and with your setup where you have a digital crossover and need to use a 'serious' soundcard like the Lynx, I suspect a hybrid-solution might be best. Use a pair of linear supplies with a PicoPSU for the motherboard. And power the Lynx with separate linear supplies, either by using a modified riser-card or modifying the Lynx. The supplies for the Lynx will be pretty simple supplies and can be built-up using a number of available boards and/or kits, such as the Peter Daniel universal power supply board Rick McI mentioned. The key thing is finding a nearby electronics expert to assemble it, modify the riser card or the Lynx, and get it running.

This would not be a 'cheap' solution... but I expect you could do it for no more than and likely less than the Ocean Server solution... and I suspect it would sound much, much better. And if you want to power it via batteries, look at the generic Red Wine Audio supplies... good-sounding batteries plus effective battery management built-in. But this would make it more expensive, of course.

Another alternative would be to use the linear P4 / linear/hybrid PicoPSU ATX-20/24 as above, but add a separate -12v supply to feed the ATX-20/24 that will handle the Lynx current draw. To do this you'd have to bypass the -12v coming out of the PicoPSU and you still might need a local electronics expert, just less of him. Still, you'd be getting your 5v, 12v, and -12v for the Lynx from the motherboard and that's a BAAADDDD source for good sound. It would work, but definitely not sound as good as the separate supplies for the Lynx.

Oh, finally, the most important thing I've learned in the past 2 years? That I honestly know almost nothing about designing good-sounding power supplies and that any sonic improvements I've gotten from all of my power upgrades have been more luck than intent.

My 2 cents!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. The main driving force for the development and commercialization of LiFePo4 cells is their use in cordless power tools... and for many hobbyists like myself, the least-expensive way to obtain them is to buy an appropriate power-tool spare pack when it's on sale and take it apart!


Everything matters!

 

RE: Powering a cMP..., posted on January 27, 2011 at 04:21:00
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Wonderful summation of the state of the art on PS. Nice not only on what's out there but on what matters for sound.

 

RE: Powering a cMP..., posted on January 27, 2011 at 07:06:22
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I'm glad it was useful.

BTW, I just made some edits to clarify and add some info.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. BTW, my next iteration of a modified Juli@ will have a plug-in for the 3.3v so I can compare several different regulators and a LiFePo4 battery setup. Curious which will win... that or the Paul Hynes reg.

Just need some time to finish it!
Everything matters!

 

Indeed: a wonderful summation (and very informative!), posted on January 27, 2011 at 07:27:13
hfavandepas
 Hi Greg,

I couldn’t agree more with Theo: a wonderful summation on cMP power supply.
Thank you for taking the time too write that down !
It’s also very informative and useful for me, as it very nicely paints the big picture on PSU improvements.

I was especially happy reading this in your post:
“The two largest improvements I ever heard during my cMP hardware upgrades were:
1) implementing the linear P4 supply and the linear/hybrid PicoPSU ATX-20/24 and
2) implementing separate power supplies for my sound card. Even going to a fully linear supply did not produce as large of a sonic improvement”.

For me this is very informative in 2 ways !

* First.
It describes the diminishing returns on sound quality improvement with each PS-improvement. Which makes me re-consider my aspirations for going fully linear, as I already have implemented:
- the P4 linear;
- the P24 linear/hybrid PicoPSU solution;
- the ‘clean’ and ‘dirty’ PSU concept, through using 2 PicoPSU-150-XT’s. Each driven by there own linear PSU.
- ‘smoothing’ caps on the 3.3v and 5 volt pins on the digital part of the Esi Juli@.

* Second.
Through your post, it’s now possible too (roughly) scale the sound quality improvement, gained by installing a small Kingstone SSD 8 Gb (with the PSU-improvements meantioned above already implemented).
Two weeks ago, I installed a small Kingstone SSD 8 Gb. It made a really big sound quality improvement. Almost as much as the combined P4 / P24 PSU improvements. I’m not making a hyperbole here. The SQ improvement was really far bigger than I ever expected from reading other inmates posts.

Combining the information in your post on sound quality improvements, with the sound quality improvements brought by thiss little 8Gb Kingstone SSD in my setup (music files on a NAS), it (might be) save to say:

- before going fully linear: first implement a (small ?) SSD.

Do you use a SSD in your setup? May be you could comment on this.

Mark

 

Why stick too your Lynx Two B when going full linear/hybrid/battery ?, posted on January 27, 2011 at 08:43:30
hfavandepas
 Hi Playmate,

Reading Gstew’s (and others) reply on your post I asked myself:

Why stick too your Lynx Two B?

Clearly the Lynx Two B is the best available internal soundcard with multichannel analog outputs. I owned the 2 channel anolog out version L22 for a year or so. But your love for this card will put you on high costs when going ‘full linear’. Even ‘only’ going linear/hybride will give you much trouble and costs.

When you add up all the costs (money, time, energy) you need too invest for going ‘full linear’ with the Lynx Two B: is that really worth the trouble and costs?

But why not consider an high quality external 8 channel analog out soundcard like the Lynx Aurora?
The Aurora uses the samen converters as used with the Two B / L22). The Lynx Aurora external soundcard can be connected too your cMP, with use of an firewire - or USB card. (the LT-FW card or LT-USB) too be installed in the Aurora.

This way you can go full Linear and/or linear/hybrid without any trouble/hassle and without (much?) extra costs.

The Aurora + FW card will cost: € 2.155,- (ex VAT). The Aurora + USB cards costs 241 euro’s les = € 1.914,- (ex VAT). See link below for pricelist Dutch Lynx distributer. Don't know the German distributor.

I’m still a fan of good old fashion Firewire. Provided you install a Firewire card with an Texas Intrument chipset (!) in your cMP setup. I’m (still not) a big fan of USB connections. But this might come some day.

I know this is al lot more money than your current Lynx Two B.
But I also red, you where considering spending 700 on an extra PSU.
So than it sprang too my mind: if you are willing too spend that much extra (and you than still will have a lot of extra trouble implementing this psu), you better sell your Two B
And buy an Aurora with FW or USB.

Looking at the trouble ahead on your road for powering your cMP/TwoB-setup all linear (or even ‘only’ linear/hybrid), the external Aurora option may turn out too be the less costly manouvre in the end.

Just a thought (and calculation exercise) too consider.

Kind regards
Mark

 

RE: Why stick too your Lynx Two B when going full linear/hybrid/battery ?, posted on January 27, 2011 at 12:00:41
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Playmate,

I must agree with Mark.
I would prefer a Prism Sound Orpheus in place of the Aurora though. If you're lucky, you can find it 2nd hand.
By using a firewire DAC, it will be easier to make a linear PSU for your cMP.

 

Context for quantifying SQ Improvements... muddying the waters!, posted on January 27, 2011 at 18:10:31
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Thinking more about what I wrote, I realized that one thing I did not highlight was the context of my cMP at the time of the two changes I mentioned... and as you'll see, the context is likely crucial to judging whether the changes will cause a similar impact with your setup.

At the time I implemented the Linear/Hybrid supply (Linear P4, Linear -> modified PicoPSU ATX-20/24), the state of my cMP was:

- cMP's Zalman case on compliant footers & some case-top weights & minimal motherboard damping
- HDD, USB, Zalman touchscreen powered via 2 Granite Digital SMPSs
- HDD mounted in the Zalman cage with minimal isolation
- Analog out via an un-modified Juli@

Initially:



After linear HDD/USB/Zalman monitor PSUs & some HDD isolation:



When I implemented separate power for my Juli@, the system state had changed significantly:

- cMP's Zalman case on compliant footers w/ some case-top weights & surface damping & slightly increased motherboard damping
- MoBo power via Linear P4, Linear -> modified PicoPSU ATX-20/24
- HDD, USB, Zalman touchscreen powered via hi-test linear supplies
- HDD resting on wooden slab with damping weight
- Analog out via a Juli@ modified with upgraded signal & power supply reservoir caps & 4 key regulators



And when I implemented the fully linear supply, the system state had changed even more:

- cMP's Zalman case on compliant footers w/ some case-top weights & surface damping on the top and sides & much greater increased motherboard damping
- HDD, USB, Zalman touchscreen powered via hi-test linear supplies
- HDD mounted to wooden slab with damping/stray-field-limited weight, ERS paper shielding, & compliant footers with carefully dressed connecting wires
- Analog out via a Juli@ digital w/add-on I2S connected AK4399-based DAC card & separate power



Until I implemented the separate power for the Juli@, any motherboard-connected power supply improvements likely made a larger impact on my cMP's sound quality than they would for a cMP with a separate DAC. This was confirmed when I powered the Juli@ from entirely separate supplies... The change made by upgrading the regulators, but still powered via the motherboard was noticable, but honestly disappointing in magnitude. But adding the separate power made the machine a whole new source (and this was probably magnified by the presence of the 'good' regulators).

How is this relevent to this discussion?

First, Playmate also uses a soundcard for his analog output. So he'll probably get results similar in magnitude to what I experienced if he does something similar. But not everyone will get similar results!

Second, to Mark's comments about HDD's & SSD's, first I have to ask Mark what is the current state of his cMP (sorry, I just don't remember or know all of it). I really can't comment with any authority until I know more (and likely not absolutely until I try an SSD), but I suspect that if Mark does not have as sophisticated a level of vibration control & power for his HDD/SSD, he may have gotten a greater improvement than I'll hear if I implement the same drive. Again, my trying it is the only way to know... And I may just have to do that. But an important data point is that the HDD isolation I've done makes a subtle, but very important difference in my system's SQ... if the HDD is touching a nearby structure or if the cables are not dressed correctly, the system will sound very dead, digital-ish, and not very tuneful.

***EDIT***

Mark, I see that you do describe a great deal about your system and how its powered in your SSD-question subthread. So the main thing I'm interested in knowing is how was your HDD and now how is your SSD mounted? Did you do anything to reduce the impact of vibrations from the HDD?


Third, I REALLY have to do a better job of detailing the context as I discuss changes I make to my cMP and their sonic impact... And ask that others do that too. I am pretty sure that someone using a separate DAC, especially one with galvanic isolation, would hear smaller differences if they implemented a linear/hybrid or fully linear supply than I experienced.

Finally, regarding the smaller difference I experienced when I implemented my fully-linear supply than when I implemented the linear/hybrid one... By the time I put in the fully linear, I had tweaked many other aspects of my system that would have been affected by that supply... Separate sound card power with very directly-powered DAC primarily, but not exclusively. If I took my system back to the state where it was when I first implemented the linear/hybrid supply & compared the two supplies then, I suspect I might hear greater or lesser differences in sound quality... Honestly, I am not sure which way it would go, but I'm pretty confident it would be different.

So where I end up is with greater clarity about how much less clarity we have in comparing sound quality impacts across our variously-different cMP systems. GACK, not what I expected to learn going down this path!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. First, I won't be trying that experiment to take my system back to an earlier level and compare the two types of supplies... Sorry, just not enough time for that, at least not now. I will try to compare my modified Antec (additional filter caps, fan and extraneous cables removed) to the fully-linear and my system's current state as I'm getting ready to lend it out to a fellow inmate... I'm hoping that will be instructive.
Everything matters!

 

SSD Questions... (and a request for cics!), posted on January 27, 2011 at 18:33:14
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Mark,

I'm sure I can't answer your questions right now, but this is a good place to make a request for an upgrade to cMP.

I think it would be great to have an option where:

1. cMP continues to point to the music libraries as it does today.

2. When you select a recording, it copies the file(s) specified in the .cue file to a specified folder that can be on a separate drive letter.

3. (And I don't know if this can be done) it powers-down the physical drive where the music library is located after the copy is complete.

4. It plays the copy of the selection.

5. When playback is stopped, it powers-up the physical drive where the music library is located AND deletes the temporary copy of the music file.

This would allow use of a small SSD for the system (as you are doing) and music playback while getting the benefit of having only the SSD powered during music playback.

cics, Possible?

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. Yah, I know this will slow down playback! But I bet it would be worthwhile!


Everything matters!

 

RE: SSD Questions... (and a request for cics!), posted on January 28, 2011 at 02:42:49
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I like the idea. So one may have to wait a bit for music to start but yes it would be worth it.

 

RE: SSD Questions... (and a request for cics!), posted on January 28, 2011 at 03:05:47
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 This would allow use of a small SSD for the system (as you are doing) and music playback while getting the benefit of having only the SSD powered during music playback.

This is exctly what I do on my cMP^2 rig except that I copy to an old 2.5", 4,500 rpm HDD (not an SSD) and do so over a network, not locally. It takes about 15 seconds to copy an hour's worth of flac-format music data. An SSD might be faster.

I use Explorer to browse the music server and copy data to a folder called E:\Music. Copying complete, I quit Explorer to find cMP displaying the copied album or albums (and only them) as normal. It's cMP that launches the player, not Explorer: there are no sonic penalties.

The system was set up using a few batch files, shortcuts and the like and, in practice, has worked reliably for over a year. I don't see any need to alter cMP at least to try the method. It took a while to get it just right but I have notes on what I did. If anyone is interested, shout.

With an SSD, there is of course the issue of wear levelling. However, as a guesstimate, an 80-GB disc should hold an OS partition and about 200 flac-format albums. Thus, even if it wears out completely after 5,000 write cycles, that's 10 hours of playing every day for 250 years. With wav files, you'd have to head for the shops after a mere 80 years.

In short, in this application at least, I don't see it as much of an issue though I should stress that I have no experience with the devices.

 

RE: SSD Questions... (and a request for cics!), posted on January 28, 2011 at 04:40:20
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I'M SHOUTING. Or more politely yes I am interested.

 

HERE IT IS - IT'S LONG!!!!, posted on January 28, 2011 at 05:54:29
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I wrote some notes a while back for a user interested in a headless cMP^2 setup. I think (hope) that with the slight editing I've just done they'll answer your point and by and large make sense. Screenshots at the end; whisper quietly if you have queries.

Dave

++++

* If you want to store data on a separate server, you obviously need to move the data over the network. However, a stripped-down XP system (especially the ‘minlogon’ change) inevitably means that some networking facilities are restricted. It is necessary e.g. to use the ‘Net Use’ command to map to a network volume; it seems it is not possible to access more than one network share from the target; a folder on the target can only be shared by re-enabling a bundle of stuff better left off. And so on. These restrictions are not unduly difficult to work round but it helps to be aware of them.

More serious, cMP's UI can be unreliable when pulling data from a network share and can crash, especially, for whatever obscure reason, if using flac-format files. I can get over this if I use wav format only or I leave Isass on but wavs have other issues and I feel that the loss of sound quality from enabling Isass is too high a price to pay. A workround for this snag was thereore needed.

* However a music library is organised, it works best in this context if it is all stored on one ‘shared’ volume on the server. The cMP^2 box logs onto this after booting up. I connect to it when booting the target in cMP mode by hitting the ‘RIP’ button to launch a BAT file. I then browse for music using a ‘tweaked’ Explorer setup and copying the selection(s) into a folder on the target that is ‘watched’ by cMP.

The result is that there is no network activity during playback. I hear no difference between playing off the network or off a local drive.

* As there is no security software on the cMP^2 box but the server will typically be connected to the 'net, I link the target to the server using a dedicated NIC and two fixed IPs not in the main network’s address range and use a strong router password.

How secure all this is I can't say but I've had no issues for the best part of a year and, for general networking, for the best part of the ten years I've used the router. Security aside, the main benefit for a CMP setup is that, esp with a 1,000 MBits/sec link, it's fast. The cost of a Gigabit NIC nowadays is trivial. I set the link to use ‘Jumbo Frames’ and think it makes a difference though it's been a while since I timed it.

Setting up Explorer as cMP's UI

Note that the ‘Explorer’ button in the cMP window works by design in ‘cMP Mode’ only. (I seem to recall it's a compatibility issue.) This routine therefore works only in that mode. It’s not an issue in practice as the SQ in ‘XP Mode’ is noticeably poorer.

The idea is to create a couple of batch files and a few shortcuts to folders on the music server and use them to automate simple routines. The configuration is done with the target running in ‘XP Mode’ and controlled from the server using VNC.

Step 1: Create batch files.

First, edit

C:\Program Files\cics Memory Player\cics Memory Player.pth as follows:

RIPPER #H ‘c:\Logon.bat’
CUE_PLAYER #N ‘c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe’ %C
LIBRARY_MANAGER ‘C:\reset.bat’
OSK “ ”
PROCESS_EXPLORER ‘c:\program files\process explorer\procexp.exe’ /p:n
EXPLORER_KILL ‘c:\windows\system32\taskkill.exe’ /F /IM explorer.exe
TOUCH_SCREEN “ ”
PREP_PLAYER

Second, create C:\logon.bat file:

Net use M: \\MusicServer\Music /user:MusicServer\User password:

where M:\ is the assigned drive letter, \MusicServer is (go on, take a guess) the network name of the music server, Music is the network name of the shared volume on the server and ‘User’ is a user authorised to access it (i.e. on the server, not on the target). The password is blank. No doubt a password would work but I've not tried.

E:\ is a partition on the target set up as the default user's ‘My Documents’ folder. (Under minlogon, only the default user can access things as there is no logging on. It works fine in practice.)

Third, create C:\Reset.bat file.

@echo off
E:
RD E:\Music /s /q
MD E:\Music
c:\windows\explorer.exe

This empties the E:\Music folder by removing and re-creating it and then launches Explorer.

* Two batch files are used as logging on takes a moment or two and is unnecessary after boot up - the second batch file saves a short but unnecessary wait.

Step 2: Edit the ‘Send To’ menu:

The default user's ‘Send To’ menu is hidden: make hidden and system files visible, create a short cut to E:\Music, copy it into:

C:\Documents and Settings\Default User\SendTo

and rename it "Music". Other items in the folder should either be set to ‘Hidden’ or deleted. See screenshot.

Step 3: Tidy up Explorer:

Using TweakUI, hide superfluous drives such as C:\ or D:\. Using Registry edits, hide ‘My Network’ and any other whimsical crap that gets up your nose. (I usually hide ‘Control Panel’ as well but it's still there for now.) None of this matters, it just makes for a neater UI.

Step 4: Create shortcuts:

Using Explorer, create shortcuts (Favorites) to various folders on the music volume and copy them to E:\ by dragging them from Favorites > Organize Favorites. Create a folder in E:\ called Music.

Step 5: Configure cMP

Launch cMP and go into ‘Settings’. Add E:\Music to the library. You can safely remove everything else.

+++++

You're done. Set to ‘cMPMode’ and restart. Click on ‘RIP’ and then either play what cMP recognises or click on Explorer to launch the second batch file.

Browse to the album you want to play, right-click on the folder and use ‘Send to’ to copy it to E:\Music.

Quit Explorer. cMP now displays the album you copied over. Double-click or hit Return to play it.

When play finishes, quit cPlay as normal and hit Explorer. This runs Reset.bat and, well, resets things. Back in the navigation window, proceed as before.

++++



Pic 1: Setup the "Send to" facility.



Pic 2: Use shortcuts to navigate the server quickly. Note that I called the target in this screenshot "Current" not "Music". Best kept short so "Music" it now is.



Pic 3: Copy selected data to the "Music" folder.

 

So it is a louder shout :-), posted on January 28, 2011 at 06:02:09
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Always kind, Dave, thanks!

 

RE: HERE IT IS - IT'S LONG!!!!, posted on January 28, 2011 at 07:28:41
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 This is fantastic thanks. I now have to figure out how to just swap files onto a ssd from regular drives (don't have a NAS).

Mark this is what you need too.

 

RE: HERE IT IS - IT'S LONG!!!!, posted on January 28, 2011 at 08:10:08
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I now have to figure out how to just swap files onto a ssd from regular drives

That's what the setup here is doing. Music data are stored on a standard 1TB, 3.5" HDD located on a desktop box and shared on a network. To play an album, I copy the data from it onto the target drive - in my case a 2.5" rust spinner, in yours (I presume) an SSD - which is attached to the music player.

The networking part is incidental. You can as easily move the data from, say, a storage drive attached to one SATA port on your cMP^2 box to an SSD attached to another.

My main point is that Explorer and a few batch files can readily make a good music browser if, for whatever reason, cMP's GUI isn't suitable. It would IMHO integrate an SSD rather well. BTW, here's how my cMP settings menu looks - I haven't changed it in months.





(don't have a NAS).

Me neither.

 

power supply question, posted on January 28, 2011 at 08:44:40
rhin0z15
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Joined: August 16, 2010
 http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT-102-power-kit

Could I use this as a power supply? for the mother board?

 

Did you do anything other than just plug it in?, posted on January 28, 2011 at 10:18:46
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Whenever I get close to buying one of these I start reading about those who have used them with XP Pro; they write about these conflicts that I am not qualified to talk about but something like these things need to be maintained by the OS and XP does not do the required maintenance and soon it becomes full of useless instructions or something to that effect. It becomes "full". I understand that one needs to leave a large margin of empty space on these, also. Maybe to leave room for the above.

All starts off well and then after a few months it goes wrong.

I am sure this is not insurmountable but I have yet to read just what one needs to do.

Are you doing anything differently now with your OS on the SSD?

One would hope the memory playback would minimize the need for an SSD for music storage but maybe this is not so. I will continue to wish. No way I can afford one of those BIG ones.

All illumination will be appreciated.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: power supply question, posted on January 28, 2011 at 11:45:06
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hi rhinOz15,

you could use it.....but why ?

the reason to implement a PICO in the context of a cMP computer is to UPGRADE the quality from a normal ATX switching PSU.
-not to downgrade it with a lousy "run-of-the-mill" camcorder adapter !

if you want to experiment with the PICO to gain more quality, it´s advisable to check the power requirements of your board and the attached periferals first.
when the PICO can handle that, you should get a quality linear 12V supply or maybe a battery to hook up to the PICO.

before all that, the separation of power-rails is important.
detach harddisk, USB and drive system first, and smooth the P4 with recommended capacitors.

first then consider the PICO supply.

hope it helps and good luck !




Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

agree !, posted on January 28, 2011 at 12:01:47
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 thanks for you direct words, guys !

that´s by now a decided strategy.

I´m not sure if the financial situation will give away a prism or metric halo yet.
if in that price range, I would go straight for the DEQX, but I guess the aurora or the good old rosetta 800 from apogee could do the trick with a firewire interface.
my "acourate" FIR filter software program has not come to any results yet, as I´m waiting for the up-coming multi-channel ability of this.


new mainboard, processor, new SSD, two new linear power supplies, interface slots and firewire PCIe does all add up....:-)

how easy the world was, when you just had vinyl.....:-)





-anyone up for buying a lynx two-B card ???





Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

An interesting approach to SSD, posted on January 28, 2011 at 14:31:18
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 though being connected to the PCIe headers might not be as good for a music computer based on cics's recommendation against this for soundcards.

But this thing is blazing fast. If speed is key, and I have no idea where the point of diminishing returns begins ....

http://www.angelbird.co.uk/crest

 

RE: HERE IT IS - IT'S LONG!!!!, posted on January 29, 2011 at 14:51:20
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ok Dave I want to try this but there are a lot of things for which I need more understanding.

First edit of cmp is easy I think. I create a new file in Notepad and replace my original cmp file in Program Files with this new one.


2nd: Second, create C:\logon.bat file:

Net use M: \\MusicServer\Music /user:MusicServer\User password:

where M:\ is the assigned drive letter, \MusicServer is (go on, take a guess) the network name of the music server, Music is the network name of the shared volume on the server and ‘User’ is a user authorised to access it (i.e. on the server, not on the target). The password is blank. No doubt a password would work but I've not tried.

E:\ is a partition on the target set up as the default user's ‘My Documents’ folder. (Under minlogon, only the default user can access things as there is no logging on. It works fine in practice.)

How do I do this? I can create a new file on Notepad but where do I put it? Do I have to name it? I have never 'knowingly' set up a bat file so I am unclear here.

3rd:Third, create C:\Reset.bat file.

@echo off
E:
RD E:\Music /s /q
MD E:\Music
c:\windows\explorer.exe

Again same question as above...how do I set this up?

I think I can struggle through the other steps but this is what I need to get started for now.

 

Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 01:15:58
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 If I have this right, you are looking for a setup in which you have a small SSD holding an OS and a larger, conventional drive holding a music library. Each album to be played is to be copied from the library drive to the SSD so the former can be spun down during replay.

Let’s assume you’ve put three partitions on the SSD. The first (Drive C:) is, say, 8192 MB and holds the main OS, the second (Drive D:) is also 8192 MB and holds (or can hold) a second OS install and the third (Drive E:) comprises the rest of the drive. We shall move music files from the separate library drive (called, say, M:) over to Drive E: on the SSD to play them.

I do something very similar except that the library drive is on a network, not another SATA port. Why I do that doesn’t matter for now - what does matter is that the scheme is realised with a couple of tiny programs called “batch files” that are so easy to write that even a programming illiterate like me can do it.

You’ll find them described in a hundred places on the net - they work in all versions of DOS and Windows. Any text file with a .bat extension (rather than the usual .txt) will, if you double-click on it in Explorer, invoke it from the command line or launch it from another batch file, perform as a .BAT file. Getting it to perform properly can be, of course, more interesting.

As you’ll only be copying data locally, you only need “Reset.bat”; forget about “Logon.bat”.

++++

First step: Open Notepad, copy and paste in this text:

@echo off
C:
RD C:\Music /s /q
MD C:\Music
c:\windows\explorer.exe

and save the file as “Reset.bat”: go to File > Save As and set “Save as type” to “Any Files” and type “C:\Reset.bat” in the filename box.

Though still a text file, as it has the .bat extension, it will be recognised by the OS as a batch file. By putting C:\ at the front, you’ve told the OS to save it in the root directory of drive C.

In this case, Reset.bat deletes the folder called E:\Music and its contents, creates a new, empty folder of the same name and then, but only then, launches Explorer. As for the code:

@echo off means “Please don’t fuss”;
E: means “go to Drive E:” (edit to suit your setup);
RD E:\Music means “delete the directory and its files”; /s /q means “just do it”;
MD E:\Music means “make a new copy of the directory”;
C:\Windows\Explorer.exe means “Launch explorer”.

++++

Second step: edit cMP’s .pth file. Simply change the “Library Manager” line to read:

LIBRARY_MANAGER "c:\Reset.bat".

This tells cMP that, when you click on the “Explorer” button in the cMP window, it shouldn’t launch Explorer.exe as it normally does but should run “C:\Reset.bat” instead.

++++

Third step: make a directory in E:\ and call it “Music”; right-click on it in Explorer (RH pane) and select “Create Shortcut”. Make hidden and system files visible in Explorer and move the short cut to C:\Documents and settings\Username\SendTo. For now, you can either leave the other crud in the folder or (recommended) delete it. Rename the shortcut to, say, "Music". Restore Explorer's "View" settings.

++++

Fourth step: In cMP’s “Settings” window, set “Default View” to “All”, add E:\Music to the “Folders” list and (optional but recommended) remove all others.

++++

Fifth step: Set your power scheme to power down unused drives to whatever you want. If you're using a "green" drive, it may just power down regardless.

++++

That’s it. To select an album in cMP, click on the Explorer button and navigate to your choice, right click on its folder name and click on “Send to” > Music.

The album is copied from the spinning rust drive to the E:\Music folder on the SSD. That done, close Explorer and you’ll see that cMP is waiting to play your file. Start it as normal.

All the above should take less time to do than it did me to write it up. The screenshots you've already had.

The world awaits your report . . .

Dave

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 02:39:27
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Ok Dave very clear thanks but one more question what if I have just a 4 gig thumb drive plugged into a usb port, will this still work? I know that if I had a true ssd with an os partition and all it would be better yet but running music files off a thumb drive still sounds better than running from any of my 2.5" lap top drives. As a result I would like to do this then migrate to a true ssd drive.

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 03:04:11
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 If I have just a 4 gig thumb drive plugged into a usb port, will this still work?

I can't think why not though IME writing to a thumb drive tends to be on the slow side. (That said, mine are both about five years old.)

Whatever, they should be fine for a trial. Obviously, you'll need to alter the batch file slightly.

HTH

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 03:18:02
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Also where do you set your Power schemes to minimize drive power consumption? This a biggie because as Cics has taught us the less power consumption the more efficient that cmp^2 becomes.

I know Cics told us to set power schemes to always on.

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 04:06:06
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Cics told us to set power schemes to always on.

His setup is different.

If you want to turn the conventional HDD off, you can do so in Display Properties > ScreenSaver > Power and set your drives to turn off in, say, 3 minutes.

If OTOH you don't want to turn the drives off, I'd have thought that that might make the exercise a tiny bit pointless.

As I saw it, the idea was to try using an SS storage medium only during playback. The snag, of course, is that these are typically too small for most music libraries. What I'm suggesting is a way round that problem, not a perfect solution but a solution nonetheless. Why not just try both options and let us know?

Whatever, I've just tried using a USB Memory Stick to hold the target data on the lines you suggest. I think you could well be right - it does seem to sound rather better. As feared, it's as slow as old boots at writing data though it reads fine.

Well worth persevering with for a bit longer though I fear an SSD is still a bit pricey for me at the moment.

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 04:25:37
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 This is a great idea. Will try today and let you know how it works. Its still the wee hours of the morning here and
I have to wait until the better have wakes.

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 06:01:53
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Couple of strikeouts setting power options to shut down drives after 3 minutes hangs up the pc when I try to go to another drive. So I reset to Always On. When I tried the (lets call Dave way) and I click on Explore I get no data. Do I need to initialize Settings to include Process Explorer for Start up?

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 06:20:36
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I reset to Always On.

Fair enough. The setting seems to work OK here - perhaps a BIOS/ACPI thing??

I click on Explore [and] get no data.

Remember this works only when using the cMP shell. You never get any data if you launch Explorer from cMP in XP Mode. If you haven't already done so, go to cMP Settings > select Start CMP > Restart and try again. See link.

If you have done that, restore the original .pth setting and confirm that Explorer works OK by itself. If not (unlikely), you need to fix that first. Easiest way would be to reinstall cMP.

If Explorer is OK, go back into XP Mode, copy any old data into the E:\Music (or whatever you called it) folder then test the Reset.bat file:

Start > Run > type Reset.bat & hit OK.

The data you copied should disappear and Explorer should start up. If not, you need to fix the batch file.

Do I need to initialize Settings to include Process Explorer for Start up?

No - Process Explorer is something else altogether.

 

I just plug it in. That's all., posted on January 30, 2011 at 06:41:57
hfavandepas
 Hi Rick,

I just plug it in and use it like any other sata drive.
Nothing special needed.
Just like any other sata HDD, also the Kingstone SSD comes without any drivers.
It uses the native win XP sp2 drivers.
If I’m correct, the operation system doesn’t even know that there is a SSD installed, because it only sees the driver and cannot 'see' what is behind the driver.

Mark

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 07:01:16
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Explorer was not ok : I got hung up in a different way...had to reboot. So I just uninstall old cmp and download cmp from cmp site and reinstall...just like a new cplay version?

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 07:40:31
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Explorer was not ok

It really does sound from here as if you are running in XP Mode. Can you quickly double check that you're in cMP Mode and confirm??

just like a new cplay version?

Yes.

Feel free to use PM if you prefer - this might take a while . . .

I have to say that playing from a USB memory stick is sounding very good indeed - most grateful for the tip. The trouble is that it takes two minutes or more to copy over a CD but even then it's worth it for serious listening.

It's definitely worth your persisting and getting to try it.

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 08:16:19
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I am definitely in cmp mode. This will take a while on my side too. I can't pm you from my side since I use gmail now (theobetley@gmail.com) and AA launches the windows email.

 

RE: Using Explorer as cMP's music browser, posted on January 30, 2011 at 09:01:09
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I reloaded cmp and I still cant open explore on top of the cmp screen. It justs dumps me out of cmp and I end up at what looks like my desktop but everything is hung up to the extent I have to reboot.

 

Indeed, the context is crucial. Here's my climb on the SQ stepupladder, posted on January 30, 2011 at 10:22:46
hfavandepas
 Hi Greg,

Thank you for yet another very informative post. I think it's very helpful and informative too read about how other inmates did there tweaks and optimizations. I learned a lot from that.

So here’s how my cMP setup evolved overtime when climbing the sound quality improvement stepladder.

Right from the beginning I used my cMP setup with these hardware tweaks:

* step 1.

- bituminous felt pads on case.
I put adhesive bituminous felt pads on the bottom plate and the lid of the zahlman case. You can buy them at DIY speaker shops or at DIY car stores.
I placed these bituminous felt pads because I don’t liked the cheap tin-can-like rattling sounds that comes from metal computer cases when you open them. Also without the damping of these bituminous felt pads, one can hear how the HDD makes the metal computer case resonate and humm.
Only afterwards I red on this forum that this is also good for sound quality of the cMP.
Van on filtering, demping, ect

- HDD loosely placed on layers of foam / cardboard paper.

Van on filtering, demping, ect

- PSU: ATX on P4 + P24

- Fan in Antec ATX PSU and fan on PSU disconnected.

- using outboard switching PSU to power: HDD + USB bracket.
I didn’t like the idea of two 230 volt powered Granite’s inside my case so much, so I used an outboard desktop switching PSU to power HDD + USB bracket (and dvd. dvd only connected for installing the OS, or making / restoring image backups with UBCD for Windows).

- sound card: ESI Juli@ -> RCA coax -> Lavry Black DA10

* Step 2:

- smooting caps on ATX 12v line to P4.

- smooting caps on ATX P24 lines.

* Step 3:

- Linear PSU on P4 (whow this taste like more !)

- implemented: Epcos mains filters and started using two separate 230 V AC spurs.

In this stage I also experimented a lot with different sound cards used as digital interfaces only. Too name a few: Emu 1212M, EMU 0404 USB, Lynx L22, RME 9632.

* Step 4:

- PicoPSU 150 XT on P24.

- implementation of ‘dirty’ and ‘clean’ PSU–concept (with smoothings caps.
Because I first bought the wrong PicoPSU model, I now had 2 Pico’s.
So I also implemented the ‘dirty’ and ‘clean’ PSU–concept (like Cics suggests) with these 2 pico’s.
On both ‘dirty’ and ‘clean’ pico’s I placed good quality Panasonic 4700 smoothing caps (paralelled with 4,7 + 0,047 high quality polymer caps) on the 5 DC volt rails.
Just too be sure, I also placed smoothing caps on the 12V DC outlets of both linear PSU’s., Because linear PSU also may have some HF pollution on there 12V DC out.

I finally settled on the: Lynx AES16 card -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10

* Step 5. Going all linear (failed)
Trying too implement an all linear setup with help of a bulky TTi Linear PSU which can output 3 voltages. It failed and I also fried my GA-G31M-ES2L MoBo. I also found so much linear PSU’s casings around my cMP case very annoying.

* Step 6.
- ‘total galvanic’ isolation with use of a good quality toslink.
Looking for more improvements: I started too read about filtering HF pollution ect, coming from PSU’s, the effect of HF pollution on DAC’s etc.
This led too going back to the ESI Juli@ but now with a good quality toslink: ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII-> Lavry Black DA10.
This was really rewarding!
I already had used an optical cable before: the one that came with the RME 9632.
When using that (cheap) toslink cable, I had (falsely) concluded that there wasn’t any SQ too gain. But the sound quality improvement coming from using a good quality toslink cable was a real significant one! Something like the fourth step: going from the ATX P24 too the picoPSU 150 XT on the P24.

* Step 7.
Cleaning power ESI Juli@ soundcard like Promethk suggests.
I first put some heatshrink tubing on the pins which are not going to be used. This way one nicely prevents short circuit too the neighbour pins, that are quite close.
Once the heat-shrink tubing is in place, it’s very easy too fit the caps with use of metal screw-in type power connectors. Just as Promethk shows on the photo in his post.
It’s a very easy tweak which can be done in 30 minutes. Provided you isolate the un-used pins with heat-shrink-tube. Otherwise one will almost surely fry the ESI Juli@ through short-circuit.
It gave a small but nice Q improvement. Like one of the best improvements we sometimes got through upgrading cPlay or when upgrading the firmware/drivers of the Lynx EAS16.

* Step 8.
- Removing the 500 Gb Samsung HDD and installing a small 8 Gb Kingstone SSD.
A totally unexpected and a real big improvement in sound quality !
Much (!) more than the third step: adding the linear PSU on the P4.
A whole new layer of mico-details ‘emerged from the deep’.
Also the sound-stage and stereo-imaging improved very much.
The whole sound character also changed.
At first I wasn’t sure if I really liked it.
But I really like it now.
For only 38 euro’s, I never expected such a big SQ improvement.

So I don’t know at which point on the improvement stepladder implementing a SSD best should be done. Should it be done already at an early stage? Or better later on when other improvements are already done?
Since it's is only 38 euro’s, I would suggest: one should do it anyhow. No matter at what step one is at the improvement stepladder.


Now something on the use of a Networked Attached Storage. I use a NAS too store my music files on (instead of an external USB or Firewire HDD). I read some other inmates use networked storage too. But I also read that they use a very complicated approach too get the network running, while running in cMP mode.

* How I use a NAS in my cMP setup.
Since the SSD I installed is only 8 gb, the music files must be stored somewhere else. I store them on a NAS.
Too access the music files I must have the network function enabled.
Only one extra service is needed for that: the 'workstation' service.
So I use a total of 3 services: ‘PnP’, ‘Remote Procedure Call’ and ‘workstation’.
The LAN-functionality also works in cMP-mode under Minlogon.

The use of a wired LAN connection has too be planned in advance when optimizing/tweaking the Win XP sp2 operation system. Before one starts disabling the windows services, a few network configuration steps have to be done first, which can’t be done afterwards when the windows services are already disabled.
Before you start with disabling services, you have too do these two steps:
1. make your cMP computer part of the same workgroup as too which the NAS also belongs.
2. Don’t use DHCP. Instead: manually assign a fixed IP address too the network card.
That’s it.

Applying Minlogon later on, doesn’t reverse the fixed IP address nor does it reverse the workgroup assignment. Both stay intact when applying Minlogon.

The last 2 years I did a lot of intensive listening if wired-LAN enabled would degrade SQ. I can’t hear any loss in sound quality when using a wired LAN connection.

Probably the water will still be muddy after this post, but at least now it’s clear which steps I made when trying too improve sound quality and at which point on the improvement stepladder, I installed the small Kingstone 8 Gb SSD.

As always: any suggestions, tips, comments, ideas are welcomed very much.

Mark

 

Bigger, faster SSD versus smaller, slower SSD, posted on January 31, 2011 at 02:34:32
alba63
Audiophile

Posts: 19
Location: Berlin
Joined: August 5, 2009
 Hi,
I am about to build in an SSD in my cmp too, therefore this thread is very interesting for me too.

Mark, you write that you have built in a "Kingston SSD 100 now 8Gb" SSD. According to a review I found, this SSD has a write speed of 74MB/s and 90MB/s read speed (according to a test I found online). Newer versions of the Kingston SSDNow V+ Drive (64GB) have already double the speed, the OCZ SSD2-2VTXE60G has triple that speed.

So the question is: What is better - a (very) small 8GB SSD as you describe, or a medium size drive (60GB) of very high speed? SSDs smaller than 60GB are hard to find, and mostly those are older models with slower speed than current models.

Another question: I currently power my internal conventional 2,5" HD (carrying both the OS and data) via a separate power supply - if I will have 2 HDs, one SSD for the OS and one conventional for the music data, how would I power the SSD?

Thank you,
Bernie

 

Don't know if there is a relation between speed and SQ., posted on January 31, 2011 at 03:29:46
hfavandepas
 Hi Bernie,

I don’t know if there is any relation between the read/write speed of a SSD and sound quality (SQ).
Why do you think there is a relation between SQ and read/write speed?
I simply don’t know if there is such a relation.

I think that in my cMP^2-setup read/write speeds are of not much relevance.
While playing music with a cMP setup, I don’t see any read and/or write activity too the disk (I have my disk LED connected).
There is only disk activity when XP is started or shut down, a program is started or closed or when a music file is loaded from disk.
When music files are loaded through LAN, than I also see no disk activity.

I don’t know why a SSD sounds better and/or why a HDD sounds worse in my cMP^2.
- is it because of less power consumption?
- is it because there is no motor in a SSD?
- is it because a HDD pollutes the PSU lines, which than spread trough PSU lines too other area’s?
- Is there pollution from the PSU (that powers the HDD) leaking trough the HDD via the sata cable onto the MoBo?
- is it because the HDD-concept ‘pollutes’ the MoBo through the sata cable?
- is because the SSD-concept is less ‘polluting’ through the sata cable?
I don’t know.

I also can’t find much about it on the WWW why SSD’s sound better. But I do know:
- a HDD with the motor off (not running when in energy saving mode) sounds equally worse, than when a HDD has it’s motor running.

So not knowing exactly how and why a HDD sounds worse, I would not keep an extra HDD in my cMP^2 setup attached too the MoBo.

My two cents.

Mark

 

RE: Don't know if there is a relation between speed and SQ., posted on January 31, 2011 at 03:54:29
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I believe you but I want to know how you load your files onto the SSD before you listen. Ryelands has a brilliant way to do it but my level of Windows (corrupted somewhat I think) precludes me from using. One of these days when Windows either gives up entirely or I feel brave I'll reload Windows and implement.

So how do you load files?

 

RE: Don't know if there is a relation between speed and SQ., posted on January 31, 2011 at 04:10:03
alba63
Audiophile

Posts: 19
Location: Berlin
Joined: August 5, 2009
 Hi Mark,
I do not know the answer to your - good and necessary - questions, but with some common sense I would answer them as follows:
"- is it because of less power consumption?"

Probably not much, maybe to a small degree: My WD scorpio blue 2,5" HD that I use now inside my cmp has a power consumption of 2,5W (read and write) versus 2,25W for the Kingston you have. BTW even bigger SSDs like a OCZ Vertex 2 60GB have roughly the same power consumption: Around 2W, which is even a bit lower than the older Kingston SSD now 8GB. So this partly answers my own question "is smaller necessarily better than bigger?" Answer: No, if the newer technology is inherently better (lower power consumption, higher speed) than the older one.

- is it because there is no motor in a SSD?

seems more plausible! Vibration is never good.

- is it because a HDD pollutes the PSU lines, which than spread trough PSU lines too other area’s?

Why should it pollute them more than a SSD - also I have a separate small PSU only for my 2,5" HD.

- Is there pollution from the PSU (that powers the HDD) leaking trough the HDD via the sata cable onto the MoBo?

Seems a bit esoteric to me, like your other 2 points, but what do I know....?

My take would be that a much (!) more important parameter relevant for the critical micro (or better: nano) timing of music reproduction is the seek time of the HDD or SSD: There lies - next to the transfer speed - the biggest difference between HDD and SSD. A typical SSD has around 0,1ms, a typical HDD around 10ms (the better ones), which is a factor of 100x slower.

For the OS being on a fast or slow SSD my idea was that during playback the OS may have to access data on the SSD - both seek time and transfer rates should ideally be as low as possible in order to not compromise the audio reproduction.

Well those are my thought, but I will probably simply try out a newer SSD like the OCZ Vertex 2 60GB and I will see how it goes. Will report back later once I have installed it. Maybe till next week- end.

Cheers
Bernie

 

exactly the same way as in a regular cMP setup, posted on January 31, 2011 at 05:42:20
hfavandepas
 Hi Theo,

Nice to hear from you.

When files are stored on a NAS, files are loaded exactly the same way as they are loaded when the files are store on a HDD which is connected too the MoBo.

Ofcourse this only works when you have the LAN function enabled and both your cMP and your NAS are part of the same ‘workgroup’.

In the cMP Settings Window, you have too point cMP too the files on your NAS.
You do this by adding folders in the cMP Setting window: ‘Folders’
If you click the ‘ad’ button you can brows too your NAS and point at the directory where the music files are stored.
The cMP ‘Folders’ windows will than show a path too the files on your NAS.
In my cMP folder window the path looks like this:
//NAS_home/share/mijn muziek/EAC
//NAS_home/share/mijn muziek/FLAC

The name of my NAS is: NAS_home
(the NAS and the cMP PC must be part of the same workgroup, otherwise they won't 'see' each other)
On the NAS is a shared directory with the name ‘share’
In the ‘share’-directory is sub-directory named: ‘mijn muziek’
Which again has sub-directories: ‘EAC’ and ‘FLAC’

In your situation there will be other names.
Your NAS may be given a(ny) different name and you also may have chosen different names for the directories used.

So with the LAN function enabled it works the same way as it works on a local HDD in your PC case.

I also have the same experience as Reylands has with flac files.
A few flac files won’t load in too cPlay and cause cPlay too crash/hang.
However I only have this with 2 or 3 FLAC files.
Which is less than 1% of my flac files.
I don’t know what causes this.

Because these flac-files are of unknown origin, may be I should covert these ‘bad’ flac-files back too wav-files.
And than re-convert them back again into flac-files with the original FLAC frontend.
But I preferably play wav-files.
This is less work for the processor, because there is no real-time decoding needed when playing wav-files.
Also (NAS-)storage space is very cheap these day’s.
So I see no need for using compressed file formats.

In this post I described how I setup my LAN
(http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/8/84578.html)

* How I use a NAS in my cMP setup.
Since the SSD I installed is only 8 gb, the music files must be stored somewhere else.
I store them on a NAS.
Too access the music files on a NAS, I must have the network function enabled.
Only one extra service is needed for that: the 'workstation' service.
So I use a total of 3 services: ‘PnP’, ‘Remote Procedure Call’ and ‘workstation’.
The LAN-functionality also works in cMP-mode under Minlogon.
The use of a wired LAN connection has too be planned in advance when optimizing/tweaking the Win XP sp2 operation system. Before one starts disabling the windows services, a few network configuration steps have to be done first, which can’t be done afterwards when the windows services are already disabled.

Before you start with disabling services, you have too do these two steps:
1. make your cMP computer part of the same workgroup as too which the NAS also belongs.
2. Don’t use DHCP. Instead: manually assign a fixed IP address too the network card.
That’s it.

Applying Minlogon later on, doesn’t reverse the fixed IP address nor does it reverse the workgroup assignment. Both stay intact when applying Minlogon.
The last 2 years I did a lot of intensive listening if wired-LAN enabled would degrade SQ. I can’t hear any loss in sound quality when using a wired LAN connection.


Tip: If you decide too do a fresh XP install on your cMP, make 2 smaller partitions on the drive (and may be a third big(ger) one for install-files, driver-cabs, music files, and image backups) Install XP twice (dual boot system) onto these small partitions. With one of these un-tweaked XP installs, you can than do maintenance on the XP cMP installment. Like: defrag and disk error-checking, etc.

Also let a computer wiz-kid burn an ‘UBCD for windows’ cd for you. And let him learn you too make image copy’s/backups (with DriveImage XML) of your cMP XP partition. If you have a corrupt cMP setup. It’s only 5 minutes work too re-install a backup of your carefully tuned and highly tweaked XP install. It will save you hours (if not days) re-installing and re-tweaking a fresh windows XP install.

Good Luck.

Mark

 

RE: exactly the same way as in a regular cMP setup, posted on January 31, 2011 at 06:23:13
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 So the files are loaded through the cmp screen and not through the Explore button on top of the Cmp screen? If so that is Brilliant and maybe I have a shot at that.

 

RE: exactly the same way as in a regular cMP setup, posted on January 31, 2011 at 06:47:39
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 One other thing Mark (and yes its great to read your posts they really teach me and I'm sure others as well) I know what NAS stands for but what is it in this context ... another pc with your music hard drives on it, is it your hard drives clustered in a hardware environment along with special software, is it connected to your home network...is the network connected to the Webb? I just need to fully understand Nas.

When I read your comments about how good your system sounded with this new setup it really piqued my interest. At first I tried to do the Ryelands routine but when I failed at that and maybe need to re-load Windows ... I thought maybe I should replicate the Mark routine.

 

Yes: EXACTLY the same way, posted on January 31, 2011 at 06:54:38
hfavandepas
 Hi Theo,

Yes, through the cMP screen.
Just like you are used to do.
There is no difference.
cMP only needs too know the pathway too the music files.
You do this in the cMP Settings window.
It doesn’t matter where the music files are stored.

However: since the music files are on a NAS, the network-function has too be enabled and working.
Both when configuring the file path in cMP settings and while playing music.
(but that’s obvious)

Mark.

N.B.
Ow.. and there's nothing brilliant about this.
This is just very basic, novice level, windows networking.
Even I can do it.
You only need too know some network basics.
(That wiz-kid for your UBCD for windows, will surely know them !)

Manually chose:
- an appropriate (!) fixed IP-address
- the correct default gateway (mostly this is your router IP address)

Also don’t use: assign automatically an DNS server)
(All these services are disabled in your cMP setup)
So also specify the IP-address of your preferred DNS server.
This is mostly also your router IP address.

 

RE: Yes: EXACTLY the same way, posted on January 31, 2011 at 07:04:05
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Thanks Mark ... now I will spend rest of the day figuring out what a NAS is.

 

Networked Attached Storage (HDD with a buid in networkcard) nt, posted on January 31, 2011 at 07:07:23
hfavandepas

 

SSDs, posted on January 31, 2011 at 09:37:00
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Some interesting points are being raised here. Here's some more for the mix.

* Following a tip from Theo, I experimented yesterday with playing from data stored not on a "watched" folder on the 2.5" HDD attached to my cMP^2 box but on a folder on a USB flash drive.

The data are identical, the HDD is still spinning and, obviously, a USB port had to be re-enabled. In spite of all that, there was [is] a marked improvement in SQ.

* If I set the HDD to spin down after three minutes of inactivity, it does just that, suggesting that there is no disc-related R/W activity during replay. The disc has in any case a good dedicated PSU, is carefully mounted outside the CPU box, its SATA lead is fairly well shielded from the motherboard and its platters spin at a sedate 4,500 rpm.

* For all practical purposes, system power consumption can reasonably be assumed to be the same. I haven't measured it but it is unlikely to be any lower.

* Given the disparity in data rates between an SSD, an HDD and a flash drive, they are unlikely to be the cause - it takes roughly ten times longer to copy an album to the flash drive than to the HDD whereas an SSD is faster than an HDD. But the HDD seems to score worse than either for SQ.

* The only difference I can spot is that music data are being read from flash memory via USB rather than a disc via SATA.

That a similiar effect is reported if the HDD is replaced with an SSD suggests - though it certainly doesn't prove - that it's not to do with bus topology. It seems to be a case of flash memory v rust.

This should not be and, no doubt, some will tell me in no uncertain terms that it isn't.

Whatever, those little 8GB Kingston SSDs are also being sold off cheap in the UK so I've ordered one. With a bit of luck, I should be able fairly soon to repeat hfavandepas's experiment of putting the OS on one.

Watch this space.

++++

* I see that hfavandepas encountered the same issue as I did when pulling flac-format data over a LAN to a cMP^2 box. It's a bit of a relief that the problem has been replicated even if he seems to get it less often than I did. (I managed to "repair" some files by re-ripping the CD but it wasn't foolproof and in the end I had to work out a different playing routine.)

 

FireWire or optical MADI, posted on January 31, 2011 at 11:20:22
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 Dear Forum,

with my latest disaster of trying to run my Lynx Two-B multichannel soundcard on a PCI slot and attaching the Pico 150TX via linear supply, the whole thing went up in smoke...
-the Lynx is just a bit more power-hungry than the digital section of ESI Juli.

Bummer !

So time it is to "upgrade" the Two-B (internal PCI) to external Lynx Aurora with either Fire-Wire or optical MADI interface.

Does anyone have a slight idea of the advantages between these two interconnects ?

yes, the MADI is optical, so the galvanic insulation is granted, but any other thoughts before I order ?

ideas very welcome !


kind regards



Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: FireWire or optical MADI, posted on January 31, 2011 at 12:13:08
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Happens to a lot of us. It's good you are not giving up.

 

RE: FireWire or optical MADI, posted on January 31, 2011 at 12:36:20
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Sorry to hear that.
Did you actually burnt it? Is the Lynx2B dead or the whole system?

I have tried Aurora, Rosetta and Orpheus. I can assure you that Orpheus is a better DAC, although more expensive. That's why I suggested looking for a used one.

I cannot tell you between FW and MADI, but you can employ Gigabyte firewire too.

All the best

 

How I use my NAS, posted on February 1, 2011 at 02:52:47
hfavandepas



Hi Theo,

Sorry I left you yesterday with only a few words on NAS-es, but I had too leave home in a hurry, trying too hit the road before the afternoon rush.
On short notice I was invited too an extended listening session with the new Apogee Symphony I/O AD/DA converter in a studio on Quested V3110 active monitors.
Which I didn’t want too miss by being stuck in the daily evening traffic jam.

I use a simple Buffalow HS-DH500GL Linkstation Live NAS. In essence it’s a little box with one 500 Gb HDD inside + network connection.
It runs on Linux.
It is also packed with all kinds extra services which I don’t use.
Like: ftp-server, printer-server, remote NAS access through internet, auto-backup too an USB-attached external HDD, all kinds of uPnP/DNLA multi media services for both MAC as well as for Windows, etc, etc.

I use the NAS in my home network like this: see picture above that I found on the www.
Although in my home LAN, the modem and router are joined together in one box and both desktop PC’s are connected too the switch.

There is not much more I could think off telling you about the use of a NAS in a wired home LAN.
But feel free too ask if forgot something too clarify.

Mark

 

thanks for adding too the mix. Looking forward too read your experience with the SSD., posted on February 1, 2011 at 03:52:00
hfavandepas
 Hi Ryelands,

* Just too be sure I understand everything correctly (I’m not a native English speaker):

In your cMP^2 setup you use a 2,5” HDD with dedicated PSU with the OS + music files stored on it.
You than plugin a USB flash drive, you copy some music files onto that USB flash drive and you play the music files from that USB flash drive.
The result is: the files played from the USB drive sound better than when the same files are played from the HDD.

Hmm well yes…. That’s remarkable.

I haven’t tried that, but I still have the Samsung HDD lying around too plug it back in and see if I can replicate the phenomenon.

* On sound quality and spinning HDD.
If after 3 minutes the HDD spins down, I don’t hear any sound quality differences in my cMP setup.
Do you hear sound quality differences?

In my setup, I just swap the HDD out and the SSD in place.
So: same power supply situation, same sata port, same sata cable.
Just the fact that there is a HDD connected (with dedicated power supply through a ‘dirty’ picoPSU 150 XT) results in sound quality degradation (compared too a SSD).
It doesn’t matter if the HDD is spinning or not.

* On strange behaviour from FLAC files in cPlay.
I noticed some more strange behaviour when cPlay handles flac-files.
Sometimes cPlay also doesn’t list all the individual tracks in a flac-file.
Though when using Foobar on the same flac file, Foobar is listing these individual tracks.
I haven’t looked closely into these differences between foobar and cPlay because I convert flac files back too wav-files.
But it seems Foobar does a better job handling flac files.
Soo may be cPlay needs ‘a closer look under the hood’ too see if it’s handles flac files correctly.


* I’m looking forward too hear from your experience with implementing that little SSD in your setup.

Mark

 

RE: thanks for adding too the mix. Looking forward too read your experience with the SSD., posted on February 1, 2011 at 04:28:40
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 the files played from the USB drive sound better than when the same files are played from the HDD.

Yes and it's not a small difference. Blame Theob. I do - it was his idea.

Note that re-enabling the USB port and inserting the stick are the only changes I made. It's weird; if you can repeat the trial, I'd be delighted.

If after 3 minutes the HDD spins down . . . Do you hear sound quality differences?

No but I didn't try very hard, to be honest. (I don't normally set the disc to spin down as it would be stopping and starting almost every track.)

. . . may be cPlay needs ‘a closer look under the hood’ too see if it’s handling flac files correctly.

The only time I get trouble with cPlay and flac data is with some tracks when pulling them over a network under a hair-shirt cMP setup with issas disabled. In every other situation it works absolutely fine. (I've not tried the same setup with Foobar for SQ reasons.)

That has to be, by any reckoning, an obscure bug and I don't even know if it's a cPlay one. It could equally well be a flac bug or an OS bug or . . .

As I'm asking cMP^2 to do something its author never intended, I devised a work round that works fine for me. You did much the same, I think.

 

RE: thanks for adding too the mix. Looking forward too read your experience with the SSD., posted on February 1, 2011 at 05:55:45
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Here is my experience/take on the ssd or flash drive sq phenomena. I noticed 18 months ago or so that my then 'noise problem' with cplay was positively affected by playing music off a flash drive. So I tried (unsuccessfully) to devise an algorythm to automatically load a flash drive from which cplay could play music files. Any way at that time I read just about all of the cmp thread to understand what was going on. I remember cics posts showing current spikes when using different power supplies for hdd's. Extending this to hdd's and flash drives it seemed logical that yes although the hdd's in my and Ryelands system are still spinning when running off a flash drive and therefore using the same rotational energy the little arm that moves across the hdd is not moving. And this starting/stopping/reading mechanism is no longer in play when reading off a flash drive. Hence less energy/power draw and better sonics. Running an OS off a ssd takes this to another level and perhaps explains Mark's wonderful sonic results. I think cics also mentioned that use of an ssd was a sonic opprtunity. When you say blame theob I turn it around and say blame Mark for resurrecting this idea for me to attempt the Ryelands work around. Dave when you get your ssd and load your os and it moves the needle further on sq I think I may go this way as well and try the Ryelands work around 1st and perhaps then the NAS approach.

 

RE: How I use my NAS, posted on February 1, 2011 at 06:06:15
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Mark very cool just a couple of more queries. Did you have to recopy your music files onto your nas or did you just plug your music hdd's into the nas? Given that everything is plugged into your 8 gig switch and router does that mean your htpc (is this your cmp^2) is connected to the webb? Is it possible to just run an ethernet cable from your nas to the cmp^2? Either way what hardware did you use to equipt your cmp to connect to the nas or router?

 

RE: thanks for adding too the mix. Looking forward too read your experience with the SSD., posted on February 1, 2011 at 06:47:55
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I remember cics posts showing current spikes when using different power supplies for hdd's.

Fair point except that with memory loading (AWE) enabled, the R/W heads are moving for only a small period during each track. The SQ lift is apparent even while that activity is taking place (assuming that the disk activity lights give a fair indication of when it's happening).

Running an OS off a ssd takes this to another level

There is little if any disk activity during play other than the reading of data at the start of each track (tracks #1 and #2 at the start of #1, #3 at the start of #2 and so on except for long tracks that need to be split).

I am baffled as to possible cause though the effect is palpable. It may be that it's that different motherboard devices are involved in reading from USB or SATA. That would at least explain why the effect is noticed even though the HDD is still present. That an SSD sounds better than an HDD may not be the same issue.

I need to look something or other up somewhere or someplace but I don't know where to start right now.

Whatever, what I have here is a cumbersome but effective "tweak" and v-e-r-y cheap.

Can we twist arms to get someone else to try it? It'd take about 10 minutes.

++++

I may . . . try the Ryelands work around 1st and perhaps then the NAS approach

As far as the cMP^2 box is concerned, there is little if any difference between the two. The OS sees a shared folder on the LAN but can't tell if it's on NAS or (as mine) a drive attached to another XP box.

In any case, if you use wav-format data, you won't hit the flac bug, making my trick of copying the data before playing superfluous. H's way is then probably easier.

* I just tried for old times' sake pulling flac data over the network. I can't get it to work at all now. Aaaaaaargh! Well, I can live without it . . .

 

RE: How I use my NAS, posted on February 1, 2011 at 08:18:01
hfavandepas
 Hi Theo,

* The Buffalow NAS, I bought 3 years ago, already had a 500Gb HDD inside.
The only thing I had too do was configuring the NAS through it’s build in browser-interface:
- assigning a fixed IP address
(this way ensuring it always keeps the same IP-address in my home LAN)
- Making the NAS a member of my home workgroup
(assigning a workgroup name too the NAS)
- creating users, passwords and user rights.

When the NAS is up and running and other computers can ‘see’ it in the home LAN as an extra drive, you can use it as any other HDD.
So I than copied my music-files too the NAS.

* My cMP^2 PC (aka HTPC) can connect too the internet (when the workstation service is enabled) through the router.
This I listen too internet radio with Foobar.
This is also the reason why I create 3 small partitions.
On each partition I installed XP which tweaked in various way’s.
- an ‘XP audio lan’ partition: almost 100% according too Cics recommendations
- an ‘XP cplay’ partition: for cMP^2 and 100% according too Cics recommendations
- an ‘XP audio’ partition: only light way fine tuned XP.

When I still used the Samsung HDD there also was a fourth partition: ‘My Documents’.
On this partition I stored: music files, driver cabs, program installs and image backups.

* direct LAN connection between NAS and cMP.
I vaguely know that it is possible too connect 2 PC’s together without the use of switch or hub. There have too be special preparations done, too make that work.
So MAY BE (!), it’s also possible too connect a NAS and a cMP directly together.
But I don’t know how. And also I don’t know if a NAS has the possibilities too configure it in a way that it will function in such a special direct connection.
Inmates with real indebt network knowledge may know ‘if ‘ and ‘how’ this may possible.

* Hardware needed too connection cMP to NAS or router.
Since the cMP is a PC only an UTP cable is needed too connect it too a local area network (LAN)
But ….. on a network there is network traffic. And this network traffic has too be controlled by a traffic controller: the router.
The router controls the traffic on the local network and also handles the traffic from the internet onto your LAN and vice versa.
Look at the router as the ‘post office’ and ‘the postman’. The post office assigns post box numbers (local IP addresses) too all LAN participants.
If a LAN participant wants to communicate on the LAN, it does so by sending a message too the router (too the default gateway) asking the router too deliver that specific message at IP address so-and-so. This IP-adress can be on your LAN but also can be on the internet. So without this ‘Postoffice’ and ‘Postmen’ function a LAN will not function. Without a router there is no traffic control, no post delivery, no post box number (IP-adress) management, ect.
So between your cMP and a NAS needs to be a traffic controller.

But……. The good news is: you already have a traffic controller (a router).
Otherwise you could not be connected too the internet and you could not be reading this message I send you through the internet and your router onto your PC.
Most modern routers for home use already have a 4 port switch build in.
(check at your router)
So chances are very high that you only need a UTP cable between (the build in 4 port switch on) your router and your NAS.

If (the build in switch on) your router doesn’t have enough LAN commutation ports left, you can ad extra LAN communication ports, by adding an extra switch. See figure in my previous post.

* What hardware do I use to connect the NAS?
I still have a very odd ball, old fashion (but fast!) 20 Mb/s ADSL modem + router in one box from 2004.
Because it’s old, it only has 1 LAN communication port. It has no build in switch.
So I had too buy an extra switch.
That switch has 16 LAN communications ports.
So I can connect up to 16 LAN ‘participants’.
My old modem + router (in one box) controls the traffic on the LAN between those LAN participants.
I only bought the NAS.
It already came with a short 4 meter UTP network cable in the box.
The NAS is stored down the corridor inside the meter-cupboard.
The meter-cupboard down the corridor also houses the modem+router, the switch and the wireless LAN connection point.

Piew…. Long post. I hope it’s helpful and clear.

Mark

 

RE: FireWire or optical MADI, posted on February 1, 2011 at 09:26:19
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 hey bibo01,

.....what do you mean with "applying gigabyte too" ?

it seems that the FireWire components of mainboards are usually not that superior, and that a separate one is recommended.
my pro-studio dealer says it´s advisable to look for a TexasInstruments chipset for the device.
have not figured out if PCIe is better than PCI, but I guess I´ll have a few days to find out....

BTW the MADI option is off the consideration. the MADI slot for the aurora is a thousand bucks, so...a lottery ticket is my hope.

have you swooped your lynx Two-B for a Prism ?

kind regards



Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: FireWire or optical MADI, posted on February 1, 2011 at 13:37:45
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I wrote "employ Gigabyte too" - I meant that you can use Gigabyte motherboard for firewire because it uses a TI chipset which is on the PCI bus.
It can work quite well. I am not sure you need an extra card for it. You may save some money.

I will be using Prism as primary DAC (I need 8 channels - 4 for Main, 2 for Surr. and 2 for Subs) and Lynx as secondary for testing.

 

XP installation failure - PC just stops in the midle, posted on February 4, 2011 at 17:40:51
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 dear forum,

so here we are again....with severe probs.

after build in a new GA H55M-UD2H board with the i3-540 CPU and a Intel X25 SSD, I´ve experienced an abrupt shut-down in the middle of the installation of XP. sort of at the time when windows installs the hardware devices...that never happened before when installing previous from same CD-ROM.
I´ve allocated 12GB for the partition so that should be plenty...

any idea of what may cause this ?

thanks so much for your help again.


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

Does the Install Disc have SP 2 on it?, posted on February 4, 2011 at 18:00:03
ArdRi
 I read of problems with XP and the Gigabyte boards if the XP disc didn't have at least XP 2 built in.

 

XP installation failure, posted on February 5, 2011 at 01:47:47
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 yes, Ive tried two different XP discs, both SP2


Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

RE: Does the Install Disc have SP 2 on it?, posted on February 5, 2011 at 18:38:21
rhin0z15
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Joined: August 16, 2010
 After several stops during xp install. I used nlite to install xp from the usb with wintoflash

The good thing about nlite is you can add sp3 and the drivers your xp installation will look for your chipset and other drivers.

then use winintoflash to make bootable iso of your xp install

the only thing funky about it was it changed my product key so i had to open up the file called unattend to find it and it was not the same as my original now windows wont authenticate.

Not concerned I have the install and optimisations down to three hours. I have done it about 6 times.

 

Big Thanks CICS and all Contributors, posted on February 5, 2011 at 18:45:24
rhin0z15
Audiophile

Posts: 112
Joined: August 16, 2010
 Really wonderful player all my music sounds terrific and the imaging is the icing on the cake.

Now if someone could recommend some power filtering my room is nine by twelve. the amp is plugged in on the front wall the dac is plugged in on the left wall and the cmp2 is plugged in on the back wall. i dont like results when the equipment is even remotely close together.

do i need a power conditoner for each piece or can i just do it for the dac with good results?

 

RE: Big Thanks CICS and all Contributors, posted on February 5, 2011 at 20:50:35
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hi Rhin,

Hope you received my e-mail, though it looks like you sorted things out.

Your question is tough in that filtering is probably system dependent and will always achieve the same results. So do try some different devices.

I tend to prefer and use active filtering on source components, and passive filtering on amps. Also good power cords can make a good improvement on all items.

FWIW, my cmp2 main supply is fed from an isolation transformer/ conditioner using the jps labs Digital IC, and the dirty supply and monitor get fed into a Counterpoint pac 5 using jps labs gpa-2.

The amps get the PS audio Ultimate outlets using the Jps labs Power AC cables.

All components (2 amps and the cmp2 box) are fed off dedicated outlets and the dirty gets plugged into a normal outlet.

Unfortunately the devices I use on the cmp2 rig are not available anymore.

I am sure there are many other units but one that seems to get some praise and is cheap is the Belkin PF30. You could start there and see how you like it and do buy from a place with a return option.

Cut to razor sounding violins

 

Installed an SSD for OS and software, posted on February 6, 2011 at 08:49:26
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 and as much as I find it hard to believe, just like hfavandepas, it does make a difference.

Seems more dynamic and transparent.

I got the 16gB since it was only a few dollars more. I did not partition it. I figure if SSD does tend to get "full" it will take a good long time with 16gB!

Could it be just the difference of a fresh WINDOWS install, though, which always seems to make a difference?

I read that one should diable WRITE CACHING for the SSD (right click on drive in MY COMPUTER, PROPERTIES/HARDWARE/select the SSD/PROPERTIES/POLICIES/uncheck WRITE CACHING.

In addition the following command: COMMAND PROMPT (within ACCESSORIES)
fsutil behavior set disablelastaccess 1 /ENTER/EXIT

this disables a setting which keeps track of the last time a file was accessed.

Another command, as above, then
fsutil.exe behavior set disable8dot3 1 /ENTER/EXIT

this disables the 8.3 name creation all NTFS partitions

I have no idea what much of this means.

If someone does, please comment. If someone thinks this is wrong comment quickly, please. I have had no problems after performing these, though.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: Installed an SSD for OS and software, posted on February 6, 2011 at 09:11:04
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 I have had no problems after performing these, though.

Lucky old you. I too was getting good results from an SSD, in this case one of those 8GB Kingston devices currently being sold off cheap. I cloned over the OS from the rust box and all was working a dream.

Then I got smart and did what you outline above (same web site presumably). The system hasn't run properly since - it dies after about five minutes.

I'll soon have it fixed as (just this once) I did as I preach and made an imagefile before trying anything. But it's clearly a case of caveat fiddler.

 

So far no problems ..., posted on February 6, 2011 at 16:19:05
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Sorry to hear Ryelands of your travails.

The more I think about it I wonder if cics had us do the same things in regedit?

At this point I am becoming more sure that this is the only way to go - I may be presumptious (not the first time!) and say that SSD for OS and software should be part of the cMP canon.

Been running the system all afternnon (with numerous on and off's) and I am becoming assured that this is no less than amazing what this does for the system. I had mentioned dynamics and transparency but now I am becoming aware of much better layering of the depth of image.

Recordings I did not realize even had layering of "depth" are now revealing details not detected before. I am amazed and very pleased.

I am using the same 5 volts linear supply I had made for the USB for the SSD. How much this is affecting is left to speculation.

Best fifty dollars I have spent on the system since the "ground things" from tweakaudio.com (does that assure my kook status?).

One thing that has not changed from my previous set-up is that I cannot get my MB to start with 0.65 CPU voltage. I can change it to that after running awhile but when I turn the machine off I have to re-set BIOS and start with 0.70 volt. Anyone else have this problem?

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

XP installation failure - PC still stops in the middle, posted on February 6, 2011 at 19:24:47
play-mate
Audiophile

Posts: 948
Joined: November 21, 2008
 dear forum,

well, I thought it was my new SSD harddisk that caused the installation procedure to halt, but the phenomena also occurs on a regular harddrive.

since my new motherboard (GA-H55M-UD2H) and the intel i3-540 seems proven by cics and others, my last concern is, that XP (SP2) does not operate with the Kingston Hyper-X DDR3 RAM @ 1600 MHz (CL9) ....

does this make sense ??

just a last try, before I carry the lot down to the computer service shop.....


PLS help !
Hysolid // Mytek Brooklyn // Spectron Musician III // Analysis Audio Omega

 

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