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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

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    ...
Differences between SP1 & SP2?, posted on August 17, 2010 at 06:53:51
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I've got the same problem again, now stuck in cMP mode and can't get out. I've also running Win XP SP1 and wonder if it is caused by differences in the registry between SP1 & SP2 (or SP3).

cics, what are the registry changes that set cMP mode or XP mode?

Grant, when this happened before, I'd gotten out by accident. What I did was to attach the harddrive to another computer and tried renaming Explorer.exe in the Windows directory to Explorer.sav, then copy in Explorer.exe from another PC. Because it was an XP Home machine, it didn't work, but afterwards I reattached the drive to another PC and renamed the Explorer.sav back and then started booting into XP mode again.

But I'd like to have a simpler way to do this in the future. Making a registry change (via a file) would be nice.

In the meantime, I've found that if I set cMP to bring up the task manager at startup, I can use it to close the cMP tasks and bring up the Windows Explorer by selecting "File->Start New Task(Run)" and entereing "explorer.exe". From there, I can navigate to the "c:\Windows" and "c:\Windows\System32" directories and select various control panel items such as "services.msc" (to check services running), "sysdm.cpl" (control panel systems applet), and "appwiz.cpl" (control panel add-remove programs applet). This all works ok and isn't too cumbersome for me, but would be a pain for most people.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

Does re-installing cMP and cPLAY help?, posted on August 17, 2010 at 07:48:23
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 It wasn't mentioned and it was the first thing that occurred to me.

I have not had this happen, but the future is full of possibilities.

Hope all is well for you.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 17, 2010 at 11:06:19
bruce.weiland@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: Texas
Joined: May 4, 2004
 HTH,

Thank you for the response. That makes it a bit clearer.

I do ONLY use the computer in question for audio playback, so cMp will be fine.

However, after I start cMp 1.2, I can't figure out how to get cPlay 2.0b37 to start. I do have cMp set to not load ram.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again to down under.

Bruce, LA, Calif.

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 17, 2010 at 11:34:03
bruce.weiland@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: Texas
Joined: May 4, 2004
 Alright.

I do have it working. Here is how I did it.

I opened cMp. I used the explorer button at the top to the left to get to the C: drive and then to the location where cPlay 2.0b37 is. I then open cPlay.

At first I had checked the box in cPlay to not allow the explorer to open because of the potential for a cMp lock up.

That obviously kept me from navigating to my music files. After I unchecked the "no explorer box" the "folder" was not grayed out, and I could navigate to all my music.

Have I done this correctly?

Is there a better, more efficient way to accomplish this?

Again thanks for your initial post that cleared up some of my confusion.

Bruce

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 17, 2010 at 19:17:23
Audio Bling
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Australia
Joined: October 9, 2007
 Have you checked out this web site? It has details on how to configure cMP and cPlay:
http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/

cMP will require .cue files to work. If you don’t know what .cue files are then read the doco here:
http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.11CMPShell

Read the doco here to tell you how to get cMP to invoke cPlay:
http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.12UsingCPlay

Now, if you don’t want to use .cue files then you will not be able to use cMP. You can, however, use cPlay as standalone player without cMP or .cue files. In "cPlay settings" you uncheck cMP which will enable windows explorer button (bottom left) on the cPlay screen. From here you can select the .wav or .flac file you want to play and off you go.

BTW. Your music files are in .wav or .flac format are they not?

 

RE: Chosing the right picoPSU model (which leaves the 12v line untouched) is important., posted on August 18, 2010 at 16:21:19
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 It's done!!! Hurray! That upgrade was easyer than I though.
Sweet now my cMP^2 has 1 Velleman PSU which powers the P4 and the P24 and 1 GD that power the USB port and the HDD.

After just an hour of listening (not fully burned in yet) it's really stunning! I'm completely amazed!!

Can I leave the Velleman PSU running 24/7? Is that safe? I'm not 100% confident....

One other thing. Should I try to feed my PC exactly 12v or I should try to lower the voltage as low as I can?

Thanks for all your help!

Etienne

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 18, 2010 at 17:04:12
bruce.weiland@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: Texas
Joined: May 4, 2004
 Thank you for the links.

I have used cmp and later cplay for about two years, but had not dug into the documentation.

Your links helped greatly.

I just printed out both guides in their entirety, and the forum indices.

I certainly have some reading to do. I have about 400 CD's ripped to my hard drive with as full bandwidth wav files, using EAC and I have a cue sheet for each. I did not rip as individual tracks. In retrospect, that might have been better.

Here is my virtual system at Audiogon

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1200440547&view

Bruce

 

Hey Rick!, posted on August 18, 2010 at 20:16:39
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Always good to hear from you. Sorry for the slow response... busy week at work. I believe I still owe you some responses from posts you made a week or so ago too.

Interesting news about Davenport and the LT3080. I can see that tho... I've heard that cascaded regulators may not sound as good in most situations as single ones. And since he has local regs on the DAC board, the LT3080 isn't really needed. I do find the larger C curious... don't they say something about 'minimum reactance' in their PS designs?

And of course, that he isn't using it in his raw DC supply does not mean it's a bad reg... just that the choice of setup he's using now (no reg there since he has them downstream) sounds better.

Did you see Thorsten's description of his NOS TDA1541-based DAC in the Tube DIY Asylum here:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubediy&m=186140

He's gone to some interesting PS configurations including a lot of RC or LC filtering... look at his LCR phono stage or the Cole phono he designed for DIY Audio (I have one of these to finish up someday as I get a phono setup running again). But of course, to prove that there's no absolute truth, it sounds like he has some cascaded regs in the DAC PS.

Very curious about the Belleson regs. Someday I need to try one and also compare it to the Dexa (which are less expensive). But I'm leaning towards either PH ones or no-feedback shunts like the Salas ones from DIYAudio... based on some comments from John Curl & Charles Hansen about not liking feedback regs. I do think either of these will handily beat the standard 317-LT1083-LT3080 regs... just as the Dexa beat them in my Juli@ mods.

Also curious about what you described as 'dreaminess' with the choke-filtered PS for the Juli@. Can you say more about that sound?

The treble difference of the LT3080s in my dirty supplies still seems mostly positive... maybe a bit dry tho. I did not 'sex' the poly filtering caps (Wimas) across the voltage-setting R's, so I'll likely do that this weekend and see if it makes a diff. They also may just need some break-in time. Or it could be something else.

I also plan to put LT3080's into all the single positions (ATX-24 3.3v & 12v, P4 12v) in my linear supplies this weekend and that should tell me a lot about how they sound.

But that slight sense of treble 'dryness' notwithstanding, I'm still very happy with the sound after the LT3080 regs in the dirty supples and the P4 powered from my dirty AC circuit. The 'transparent' range has been extended up and down in the spectrum quite a bit and dynamics are well-improved.

On the bleed resistor, I remember a long time ago reading that the 317/337 worked better when providing about 1/2 the max current and the way to do this was to add ballast R's at the load if it didn't draw enough. A lot of my DIY stuff using these regs from that era ('80s) use these R's, but I can't say I ever heard a diff from this. Worth checking out with this reg, tho.

The dirty supply for my HDD is a single transformer providing about 11v or so raw DC that I regulate down to 5v. These laptop drives only need the 5v line (I'm pretty sure that's true of all SATA drives) and I measured about 900MaH peaks with my drive, so the LT3080 works ok. I'm using a standard-rotation drive (5400 RPM instead of 7200 RPM) and this helps keep the current down.

Your setup sounds like it is really satisfying now. I suspect at least a good bit of it is your 'alternative' casing... and of course the K&K DAC, which is one that would be on my list if I were not sorta-scratching DACs. And IMHO, you will be even happier with the improvement made by linear supplies. And I have to finish getting a phono setup running again so I have a good point of comparison.

On PCI latency, I'd have to go and check, but I believe the GA-G31M-S2L board I'm using only offers 128 as an option, so I'm pretty sure that's what I'm using. Will let you know.

Later dude!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Davenport is no longer using the LT3080, posted on August 18, 2010 at 20:20:15
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 P.S. what you using for a phono stage?
Everything matters!

 

RE: Davenport is no longer using the LT3080, posted on August 18, 2010 at 20:30:46
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 P.P.S. Did he say why he dropped the LT3080?
Everything matters!

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 18, 2010 at 23:01:37
Audio Bling
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Australia
Joined: October 9, 2007
 Re: “..as full bandwidth wav files..â€

Well, that is what I do!

You could conduct an experiment of ripping both ways on a particular CD and then playback to see if you can hear a difference. I think I can and hence my preference.

Your system looks great!

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 19, 2010 at 00:55:37
seger
 If you do want to switch to individual tracks, try using EAC Tools > "Split WAV by CUE sheet". It's very quick. Then throw away the new cue sheets that EAC makes, and make a new ones with Al Jordan's RecursiveCueCreator - also very quick.

 

congratulations ! Also check aerthing arrangements + correct 230 AC -plug positions, posted on August 19, 2010 at 02:35:10
hfavandepas
 Hi Etienne,

Indeed adding linear PSU’s to power the P4 and P24 pins on the cMP MoBo is really easy.

Keep in mind though that the 5 V and the 3.3 V line are still powered by switching circuitries on the picoPSU. Although I expect the switching distortion being lower in a 12v DC picoPSU than in a 230 AC Volt ATX. But I’m no expert in this matter.

The 5 volt seems to be the most critical power-rail, so that is why the real PSU diehards here on the forum, also power the 5 volt rail with a linear PSU. But as you can read on the forum, unfortunately that is not so easy at all. I still haven’t found an simple and easy way too do that.

I see no real logic in crippling your picoPSU / Mobo combo through lowering the voltage untill such a low level that it stops functioning. It’s designed to work with 12 V. Lowering the voltage will only make life harder for correcting and adjustment circuitries on the picoPSU and/or MoBo.

Like Gstew already suggested: do some experimenting what sounds best: the GD or the old ATX for USB & HDD.

Also do some experiments with your earthing arrangements. Since you have more boxes now earthing arrangements are also important to pay attention too.

First try too discover what the correct position is of your AC 230 Volt plug into the mains power socket. You should chose the position which results in the lowest possible ‘AC residue voltage’ on the outer housing of your Velleman. (put your multimeter on AC-position. And than check which plug position in the 230 AC socket, results in lowest possible ‘AC residue voltage’ on the outer housing and a REAL EARTH (!) connection.)

Also check your DAC, Amps, ect if they are also connected too the mains with the 230 V AC plug in a position that will result in lowest ‘AC residue voltage’ on the outer housing.

(grrr :-( Third Edit )
I forgot to mention: when you do these measurements, you first have to connect the equipment you want too measure, to a non-earthed AC socket and disconnect from other equipment. Make notes of which 230 AC V pin is the ‘hot’ / ‘live’ pin.
After you found out what the position is which results in the lowest ‘AC residue voltage’ on the housing, than re-connect to the aerthed 230 AC wall socket you normaly use. But… be sure too connect it again with the ‘hot’ / ‘live’ pin in the same position as you discovered while doing the measurements on the non-earthed AC socket. Hope this is a somehow a clear explanation :-)

Also like TheoB discovered (and Cics also suggested) earthing and earthing arrangements are also important. I discovered this too. When I wired together: the outer housing/ case of my DAC too the outer housing / Zahlman case of my cMP. The stereo-image became really much better. So do some experimenting by wiring together the outer housings of some / all of your ‘boxes’ and listen for improvement.

For safety reasons al outer cases must be aerthed inside the box. Thus al housings can already ‘see’ each other through these earth connections. Strangely enough though, sometimes there is still sound quality improvement when connection the outer casings together with an extra wire.

In my setup there is improvement when I connect the housing of the DAC and the PC-case together. Connecting other cases together makes no SQ difference in my setup.


Though when listening for improvements, beware of placebo-effects!!
I personally believe that much of the so called ‘break in improvements’ are placebo-effects and/or adjustment too the new sound.
(if there is any new sound or real sound quality improvement at all !)

I switch off the Velleman, since it saves energy. I also always switch it of when leaving the house. Thus avoiding risk off overheating and fire when I’m away from home.

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 19, 2010 at 06:12:29
bruce.weiland@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: Texas
Joined: May 4, 2004
 Audio Bling

Thanks for the system comment, if you like the way it looks, you ought to hear it!

I never thought about there being any difference in the playback sound of the CD whether ripped as a single wav or individual wav's for each track.

When my internet surfing and reading got me on to black CD copies sounding better I downloaded a copy of EAC and ripped all my CD's as single waves, for archiving and to allow easy recreation of the CD on black blanks.

Further reading got me interested in computer playback. My thinking, if the Black CD sounded better then going back one more step and not using an optical interface (laser), but rather playing from the hard drive ought to be even better.

I am an inveterate tweaker, and have a number of track I use for evaluating a change in the system. In foobar 0.8.3 (the best sounding player I had, before stumbling across cMp/cPlay) it was easy to make a play list of just the tracks I wanted.

I, on occasion, wanted to burn a CD with just those tracks, but never got into the process deeply enough to figure out how to do that.

With the reply I received from seger I now know how to split my full wav's into tracks.

 

RE: cMP vs, or with cPlay 2.0b37, posted on August 19, 2010 at 06:30:48
bruce.weiland@verizon.net
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: Texas
Joined: May 4, 2004
 Seger,

Thanks for the bit of info. I have wanted to build a play list for cPlay that would contain 10 or more tracks from individual albums, but could not figure out how to do that with my full album waves.

When I am evaluating a tweak or change in my system I currently have to play a few tracks from one album then close that album and go back to the browser for the next album and cut I need.

The info you have given me, I think, will make it easy to make a single play list that will load all the tracks into one cPlay screen.

Thanks again.

Bruce

 

I do not think he thinks it bad, posted on August 19, 2010 at 09:07:50
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I just thought it was interesting. CERTAINLY NOT a bad regulator. I think it is a big step up from the older generation.

The main reason he gave was the fact with his new DAC he needed more voltage rails and this was easier to do without all of those regulators.

It was not said, but implied, that he must have thought it sounded at lease as good without it.

I went with the BELLESON because it was small and easy to place right at JULI@. I am sure there are some better approaches but they are bigger(I am guessing!). The fellow at BELLESON told me the bad 'scope pictures were made using the regulator I had first intended to use. YIKES!

The dreaminess meant that the edges were softer, very euphonic. Like I said the images sharpened with the reg but there was a toll in that liquidity which was a distortion, though an attractive one. Not to imply the BELLESON adds no distortion of its own ...

I am going to use the LT3080 everywhere but the 5 volts rail. Only because I already have the 1083 and can't imagine it making a big difference there. My thinking (not saying experience) is that getting the noise out of the supplies to pure digital devices is worthwhile for our purposes but going to extremes might only result in the tiniest of improvements where more might be gained with efforts elsewhere. If I had an unlimited budget I would say, "what the hell", but I do not.

I thought you were using the "new" board, which is why I asked about the latency. I remember on the old board that was a BIOS choice. The new board gives you no choice, hence the PCI LATENCY tool.

My phono amp, which was a temporary solution while I build a John Broskie AIKIDO phono, is the ALTMANN. I used to think it sounded pretty good. It did sound really good compared to my old cMP set-up. Now the new digital system makes it sound really closed in and lifeless. That is how happy I am with this new set-up.

At least I can listen to music while I finish this absurdly long running project.

Thanks for the advice on powering the HDD's. I am using WD CAVIAR BLACK and I think they do spin at the higher speed. I am thinking I will use fixed voltage three pin regs for this. LAZY!

I worry that Thorsten is like Allen Wright (I greatly respect them both) I think what they show you is not enough to get the results they are speaking about so I do not pay too much attention. I am not going to try making a DAC. I do have a pair of those TDA1541 chips, though. Single crwons, when they were being made so I know they are not fakes.

I am completely satisfied with Dave Davenport's line stage and DAC. That is another area I am not going to delve into.

You can see the Dave's new schematic for the power supply at his website: raleighaudio.com. It is not ridiculous amounts of capacitance!

I wish I had thought to give him a hard time about the minimal reactance aspect of the new supply! That is funny.

I am jumping back and forth between your note and mine so forgive the disjointed nature of this.

By the way, have you figured out what jackwong was doing with his memory? I cannot for the life of me make any sense of it at all!

Work does get in the way of all of this, doesn't it?

Thanks for your help, as always,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: congratulations ! Also check aerthing arrangements + correct 230 AC -plug positions, posted on August 19, 2010 at 17:40:28
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Hi
Thanks (again!) for the nice reply (and your multiple edits!!)
By the way, I live in Canada so i'm on 120V.

Thanks for all the detailed explanation about earthing, I'll sure get into that someday. For now I'll enjoy my current improvement. Plus, I'm not 100% sure I understood what you meant about the "position" of my plug into my main...

(Edit #1)
Unfortunattely I won't be able to test the audio difference between the GD and the Antec. I did some cable management to the Antec and I only left the P24 the P4 connectors. :-(
(end of Edit #1)

This might be a weird and stupid question but are we 100% sure that the Velleman is a linear PSU? I looked at the operating manual (which is super small) and it doesn't really mention it. I was really suprised to find a linear power supply that cheap. Every other linear PSU were over 2 or 3 times (or more) the money. The sales guy was also sceptical that the Velleman (Peaktek) was linear, he thought it was a switching mode power supply.

Anyways, it was still a major improvement on my system and I'm super happy I made the move! I was really excited to get back from work today! :-)

Thanks again for your help and to everybody who made this possible!

Etienne

 

The Velleman is a linear PSU, posted on August 20, 2010 at 01:15:11
hfavandepas


Hi Etienne,

A while ago Cics pointed me at the Velleman linear PSU. It’s indeed very cheap but with good specs. However I don’t know how trustworthy those specs are. Chinese do everything to sell there products. Which often means: also bending the truth a little. I hope that Velleman will live up too there reputation.

Too make you feel comfortable I shot a photo of the inside. You can see the transformer coil. So it’s a linear one.

Enjoy.

 

RE: The Velleman is a linear PSU, posted on August 20, 2010 at 06:49:30
etiennelemay@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: June 25, 2008
 One again, hanks for the answer and for the picture!
So it is linear after all! Yay!

Good to know!

Etienne

 

Internal Graphics Clock? (said the wrong thing before), posted on August 21, 2010 at 06:35:33
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Should this be left alone or set to a lower value?

In my case, the best I have got was 700. Anything much lower and it will not proceed to WINDOWS after the change. I cannot really say there was any change of sonics from this and I wonder if the machine accepted the change, anyway.

I thought I saw someone say they were setting this to 400, though I could have misunderstood.

Unfortunately, even with being run for about a month I can get no lower than 0.675 volt on the CPU. Has anyone else had this problem?

Thanks,

Rick McInnis

 

If at first you don't succeed... , posted on August 22, 2010 at 19:01:26
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 After living with the P4 powered from my 'dirty' AC line and liking it, I set out to modify my fully-linear supply this weekend to have two AC cords instead of using my old linear-hybrid supply to power my P4.

Did that Saturday evening. Didn't sound good... flat, lifeless, a bit harsh. I let it warm up a bit, but it never came on-song.

I was puzzled on this one. I used the power cord and fuse-holder from my linear-hybrid and just added it onto the fully-linear. I did swap the AC cords between the P4 and the ATX-20. Even though the cords are different sections of an aftermarket cord I cut up, the plug on the one from the linear-hybrid might be better (it was the one that came on the aftermarket cord, the other was a Lowes-special), so I put it on the ATX-20 supplies and used the other for the P4.

Only other significant difference is that the linear-hybrid uses the MSR860 diodes and the fully-linear the DSEP30-06A's, which I had preferred when I was getting the fully-linear running (I did swap between the two at one point).

So this morning, I swapped the AC cords between the two supplies and took extra care to make sure all the solder joints were good. Put the fully-linear supply back in and I could tell immediately (no warmup) that the issue was solved.

I was prepared to swap out the diodes on the P4 supply too, but there's no need. Actually, the sound is a little better now than using the linear-hybrid's P4... a tiny bit more transparent and dynamic. I attribute that to the DSEP30-06A diodes in the P4 AND to having one less transformer powered up (I never disconnected the P4 power supply on the fully-linear supply when I was comparing, just swapped between the two P4s).

Dunno... might have been the AC plugs, might have been a bad solder joint (although none of them looked suspect).

In any case, I am very comfortable in saying that even with a high-test linear supply, the P4 is better powered from your 'dirty' AC line as recommended by cics.

Because of fiddling with this, I haven't had a chance to try the LT3080 regulators in more positions... likely later this week. I have the LT3080 regs made up and ready to install, but instead spent the rest of my 'audio' time this weekend working on a new set of raw DC supplies for another Juli@ & a not-yet-installed Buffalo-II DAC. Both will be using shunt-regulated supplies which like a couple of volts more headroom than I have in my current setup.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

USB monitor - better or worse?, posted on August 23, 2010 at 11:40:15
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Decided to do a WINDOWS re-install since I could not get my "radio" mouse to work but it got me thinking about what the optimizations are about.

I was looking at the monitor optimizations - specifically the idea of running the monitor at its native resolution to minimize work.

This got me to wonder if my large monitor (21 inches) and its rather high native resolution requires more work than the tiny monitor in the ZALMAN case as some are using.

So, I started looking around and found these USB monitors. One would think it best to power the monitor with a GRANITE or the "dirty" supply.

Would this make a difference? Lowering the native resolution from
1680 x 1050 to 800 x 480? These have their own video card which would require less work from the on-board stuff. Could the on-board stuff be turned off as a result of this?

With the new board there is no choice between USB 2.0 and USB, so that is not a consideration.

I have included a random link to one of many of these available.

Any thoughts?

 

That would be ideal if you wanted to use a case w/o, posted on August 23, 2010 at 13:09:38
ArdRi
 an LED display like the Zalman. I've been running with 4 bit color,the lowest screen resolution and the AGP Video in the tower disabled. This seems like it would spare the CPU from doing whatever video processing is required for the basic display I'm using now. Sounds reasonable to surmise usb "noise" would have to be less than using the CPU for display though of course still not "headless".

I already put a hole through a wall and stuck the PC in an adjoining room and just ran a VGA cable to a KVM swicth to share the CRT NEC monitor I use for my desktop PC. I just shut that off if I want to listen quietly in the main room so I'm not sure I'd benefit with this unless yanking the AGP card and disconnecting the VGA cable would gain in terms of further quieting of the MB. Thanks for the idea though I may grab one anyway. Do post up any impressions if you try it.

 

I need the advice of one of our MB/CPU experts beofre I jump, posted on August 23, 2010 at 14:02:52
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 since I have no real knowledge of how all of these things interact.

I read further that the LED monitor can be CPU intensive. But I figure with what it would have to do with cMP should not require much of any work from the CPU. I think many of these folks were using this device as a second monitor.

So I would love cics, lga775, or Mr. Wong, to give their opinion on what is worse, USB or the standard monitor jack and whatever supports it.

Do lower native resolutions make life easier for the CPU? Or does the native resolution aspect only come into play when one is asking for a conversion from the native resolution of your monitor?

I would gladly give it a try with some hope of success and if given such hope you can be assured I would report.

 

Pre-fetcher registry changes, posted on August 24, 2010 at 13:46:15
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Looking at how to best implement an SSD with XP Pro I came across a site dedicated to this: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?43460-Making-XP-pro-SSD-friendly - and this:

How to re-enable WinXP prefetcher

- manually edit registry keys

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters]
"EnablePrefetcher"=dword:00000003

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Schedule]
"Start"=dword:00000002

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Dfrg\BootOpt imizeFunction]
"Enable"="Y"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\OptimalLayout]
"EnableAutoLayout"=dword:00000001


- or download 'Enable WinXP Prefetcher(http://mampan.org/prefetch/Enable_Prefetcher.reg)' and double click.

Could these additional changes be useful?

I will try them tonight and see if anything bad happens. I do not have an SSD.

Bye,


 

UPDATE on power supply for TUBE BUFFERED SPDIF., posted on August 24, 2010 at 19:53:24
lga775
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Joined: October 10, 2009
 Something to add on. VERY IMPORTANT.

The voltage should always lock at 90V or +/-5v, if otherwise it will defeat the purpose of buffering the spdif using a tube. However, a Voltage Regulator tube is highly recommended in the PS circuit.

When your voltage is locked at 90v or +/- 5v, u will know wat is it all about!!!!!

Finally if you are not able to do it as above, signal quality of SPDIF being buffered would not be benefited too much.

Thanks.

 

What is better for cMP2: GA-H55M-UD2H rev.1.0 or rev.1.3 ?, posted on August 25, 2010 at 13:58:10
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 And what difference between these versions of the motherboard.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: I do not think he thinks it bad, posted on August 25, 2010 at 19:04:47
belleson
Manufacturer

Posts: 1
Location: Greer SC
Joined: August 25, 2010
 Hi Rick,

Regarding distortion, can we presume the Belleson Superpower innocent until proven guilty? :-)

More seriously, thanks for your comments. Sometimes I'm upset at the engineer after I listen to a recording on a really good system. The other day my wife said "I think something is wrong with the stereo, it doesn't sound right." I checked everything out and it was playing as normal.
"What were you listening to?"
"Journey."
"That explains it. Great music, bad recordings."


Brian Lowe
Belleson

 

What MoBo-Soundcard-Combo...?, posted on August 26, 2010 at 06:25:44
allnskloar
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: August 26, 2010
 Hi Everyone,

I'm about to build a cMP2-machine. I'm a beginner. So I dont't want to fiddle around too much. My plan:
Case: "ATX Silverstone SST-LC13B-E La Scala"
CPU: "AMD Athlon II X2 240e"
MoBo: mini-ITX "Jetway JNC84E" with PCIe OR microATX "Asrock A780LM-S with PCI"
Soundcard: "Asus Xonar Essence STX" (PCIe, provides a 12V-Molex plug) OR "Onkyo ST-90PCI" (PCI, no extra 12V plug)
Energy: an ATX device providing four 12V lines at 18Ampere+

Question:
is it better to to use a smaller, industry-style mini-ITX board together with an above average conosumer soundcard like the Asus Xonar Essence STX
OR
is it preferable to use a simple standard microATX board together with a top notch Onkyo soundcard like the ST-90PCI
OR
is all that nonsense since focussing on a second ATX power supply is much more important (by the way: do seperate 12V-lines make a difference?)??? The mini-ITX board would probably offer a chance to place a second ATX power supply inside the spacious case.

There are several questions hidden in my post. Sorry for that. But a complete set of answers arriving over time might be very useful for other novices as well...

Thanks. Cheers.
Jens

 

I am sure the BELLESON is superior to any three pin, posted on August 26, 2010 at 08:32:54
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 but, I figure I will try the cheaper route first, at least, to get things going and then substitute a superior device.

I am afraid I have no choice but to use the LT1083 for the 5 volts rail which seems to be the most important or the hardest working!

cics has suggested that the 12 volts P4 supply for the CPU is not quality critical. I am not, at this point, looking for minute improvements. I still have my doubts about how much of an improvement a fully linear supply will make but the challenge is too interesting to not give it a try.

I have not lost interest in your regulators.

I hesitate to take a chance of going overboard in praise of anything though some would say I have in my appreciation of cics's software. But, one can let their emotions fly when dealing with another's labor of love which they have decided to give away. Not to say I do not sincerely love what his work has allowed - for me, enjoying digital music. Not to imply I have heard much of what else is out there, not in my own system.

You should lead the way and come up with an easy to implement set of regulators for linear power supplies for the music computer!

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

This post contains more changes to disable Pre-fetcher, posted on August 26, 2010 at 08:34:46
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Could be of interest.

I implemented them and they did not make anything go wrong.

Just got my reinstall working last night, too late to do any serious listening. I will know more tonight.

 

Why not use the suggested pieces?, posted on August 26, 2010 at 08:36:32
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I doubt many here will know much about the gear you are considering.

Do you have an aversion to the GIGABYTE boards or the JULI@ soundcard?

 

RE: Why not use the suggested pieces?, posted on August 26, 2010 at 09:07:22
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 I guess Rick is right that many here do not know much about the gears being considered. I am one of the many.

However, I would strongly advise against the use of the Asus soundcard, having own the Xonar ST. This soundcard may have used excellent components in the build but it has got a horrible ASIO driver.

My initial built was using the ST and I thought the sound was wonderful. But having switched to Juli@(modded with recommendations from GStew, promethk, et al) a few months back, and recently having a listen to the ST, my feelings are that Juli@ @48 latencies gives the feel of a refined high-end system, whereas the ST gives you the run-of-the mill sound with the universal ASIO4ALL @64 latencies. Asus ASIO(beta) driver doesn't work well cMP + cPlay.

Morever, STX cost much more than the Juli@ over here.

Regards

 

RE: What MoBo-Soundcard-Combo...?, posted on August 26, 2010 at 10:10:09
allnskloar
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: August 26, 2010
 You folks are lightning fast!

Ok, I must admit that the gear choice is a little exotic.
Besides the gear mentiones my intention was to find out about mini-ITX, thinking that smaller and more industrial-like might be an improvement. But in the passed few hours I've found out that PCIe is a nogo for audio anyway, and since virtually all mini-ITXes nowadays provide PCIe only that plan is skipped.

I don't have an aversion against Juli@, but reading about it seems to reveal repeatedly that it must be very good, but not best. But if it should be the best affordable way to go I'll take it.

Since it'll be PCI anyway the Onkyo Soundcard is back in the race. The ST-90PCI is said to be extraordinay good soundwise. It is only moderately more expensive than the July@. And I would like to avoid tweaking the equipment since I'm lacking knowlege for that so far. But I'm not completely sure how much the soundcard really contributes to final sound quality, assumed I will NOT use an external DAC.

Mentally I went for AMD since their latest 45nm Desktop CPUs (the "e"-Versions) provide 45W TDP which is noticably less than the 65W TDP of the Core2Duos. That should make sense - no!?

 

RE: Why not use the suggested pieces?, posted on August 26, 2010 at 10:12:31
allnskloar
Audiophile

Posts: 49
Joined: August 26, 2010
 PUT THE TEST AT THE WRONG PLACE FURTHER UP - SORRY!
SO I'M REPEATING IT HERE!


You folks are lightning fast!

Ok, I must admit that the gear choice is a little exotic.
Besides the gear mentiones my intention was to find out about mini-ITX, thinking that smaller and more industrial-like might be an improvement. But in the passed few hours I've found out that PCIe is a nogo for audio anyway, and since virtually all mini-ITXes nowadays provide PCIe only that plan is skipped.

I don't have an aversion against Juli@, but reading about it seems to reveal repeatedly that it must be very good, but not best. But if it should be the best affordable way to go I'll take it.

Since it'll be PCI anyway the Onkyo Soundcard is back in the race. The ST-90PCI is said to be extraordinay good soundwise. It is only moderately more expensive than the July@. And I would like to avoid tweaking the equipment since I'm lacking knowlege for that so far. But I'm not completely sure how much the soundcard really contributes to final sound quality, assumed I will NOT use an external DAC.

Mentally I went for AMD since their latest 45nm Desktop CPUs (the "e"-Versions) provide 45W TDP which is noticably less than the 65W TDP of the Core2Duos. That should make sense - no!?

 

RE: I need the advice of one of our MB/CPU experts beofre I jump, posted on August 29, 2010 at 17:14:03
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Rick,

Since the experts haven't weighed in, I thought I'd offer my opinion...

I looked at one of these USB monitors about this time last summer when I was starting to gather the parts for the super-case that I have yet to build.

I decided against them after thinking about how they must get their signal. They require a separate driver which has to intercept the video signal, likely after it has been processed by the mobo hardware (in the case of a cMP, the processor) AND then do a conversion into USB format AND route it through the USB connection. I just couldn't see any way this wouldn't add to the mobo processing burden.

So my advice is no to this. OTOH, I did pickup this small touchscreen monitor with regular VGA input:

http://www.short-circuit.com/product/VM70.html

I want to disable the AV chips before I use it, but it looks to be a pretty good alternative.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

Furhter thoughts - USB advantage - easy to disconnect, posted on August 30, 2010 at 08:35:06
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 It occurred to me that one should be able to unplug and re-plug the USB monitor so it would be completely out of the system while playing music.

Of course, this would be bothersome but it might be worth it.

 

RE: Further thoughts - USB advantage - easy to disconnect, posted on August 30, 2010 at 10:29:15
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Of course, this would be bothersome but it might be worth it.

A couple of suggestions.

1. A headless setup would probably have at least the same result and possibly a better one. :>) It also has the merit of not costing anything to try and, if successful, of leaving you a KVM to the good.

2. I doubt if a USB monitor will help very much. IME, you can't disable the main display in BIOS though you can select its interface (e.g. embedded or PCIe). XP typically assigns it an interrupt whether or not it's actually driving anything. Meanwhile, XP will either assign an interrupt to your USB monitor or poll it so you end up with two devices, not one. (I'm not sure how interrupts versus polling pans out in XP.)

This got me to wonder if my large monitor (21 inches) and its rather high native resolution requires more work than the tiny monitor in the ZALMAN case .

Why not set the graphics chip to a low resolution (letting your monitor do the conversion for the purposes of the test) and see if the CPU load changes while you run e.g. one of those dreadful XP tutorials?

I'm no display expert (to put it mildly) but if graphics cards use vector graphic techniques to generate the raster image for a basic display of type (as e.g. laser printers do) then the difference in our scenario will probably be negligible. I'm ashamed to say that I don't know and can't find the answer but there must be some here who do.

BTW, if you Google "USB polling rate", you'll find discussions between nerdy gamers about altering the polling rate for a USB mouse. See link. (Seems they even do it on the Mac - now there's a thought . . . )

 

Thanks for your input, posted on August 30, 2010 at 12:56:20
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 You know far more about all of this than I by seven orders of magnitude.

I have grown tired of my 22 inches monitor lighting up the room so I decided to give this a try anyway. I ordered the smallest one.

If it is a wash at least I will no longer have this giant display.

I have no idea how USB and the regular monitor port affect the assignments of tasks within the computer. I do not know what polling is but I will find out (somewhat) after I go to the link you supplied.

I guess I can disable the monitor based devices in DEVICE MANAGER since this monitor has its own "video card". Will be interesting if that makes any difference.

I hesitate to depend on the monitor to change resolution since cics said in the OPTIMIZATIONS that this requires additional power so he recommends using the native resolution of your monitor. I do not know what to make of any of this. Wish I had a better idea of what goes on within the motherboard. But only if the information could be injected into my brain!

In a week or so, I will know.

Are you using the "new" board?

Thanks, again,

Rick McInnis

 

That seems like a good idea, posted on August 30, 2010 at 12:59:11
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 have you tried it?

I can't wait to give it a try.

NEAT!

 

Tried it at work - no functional loss that I can see, posted on August 30, 2010 at 13:08:27
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I wonder if one sets the "value" higher than one would it be worthwhile within the cics canon?

 

Though I could not express my fears ..., posted on August 30, 2010 at 13:25:47
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 that is the kind of thing I worried about
UNTIL
My second thought is that all of this is moot (I assume) when the device is unplugged.(?) Do you think there is a problem with all of this plugging and unplugging?

I had got used to turning off the monitor so dealing with the plug is not that big a deal.

Thanks for your input!

Rick McInnis

 

Sharing upsampling duty between computer and DAC, posted on September 1, 2010 at 11:40:17
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 The other night while comparing 44.1 to 192 within cPLAY/SRC and finding something to like about either I wondered if it could be advantageous to set the computer to 96 and let the DAC do the remainder (to 192 - TI SRC4392). It is going to upsample anything but an existing 192 input, anyway)

Now I do know how careful one has to be since we can be so enamored of out own brilliance, especially when it comes to audio (earliest documented observation being BARANEK'S LAW for speakers) but for the time spent with it, so far,(two nights extended listening) I think there might be something good.

Of course, if one is using one of the NOS DAC chips this is not going to be the case but could there be some advantage with asynchronous sampling that it is better not to do it all at once? I know there are just as many logical arguments to be made that it would be better to do it all at one time so I have retained my skepticism, but ...

As time goes by it will become more obvious if it is better, worse, or (as is most often the case, simply) different.

If anyone else will give it a try and their assessment, I would be appreciative.

Bye,

 

RE: Sharing upsampling duty between computer and DAC, posted on September 2, 2010 at 22:11:51
hallcon83
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: Texas
Joined: September 2, 2010
 Hi I'm interested in the cMP memory player but can't seem to access the HOW To build a cMP player website. When I try to access that site it says off limits - that it has been reported to have viruses - and blanks out the page with a red page , i have been trying to access that page for about a week - - - can anyone help? Thank You - dean

 

RE: Sharing upsampling duty between computer and DAC, posted on September 3, 2010 at 03:21:05
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 When I try to access that site it says off limits . . .

Obvious I know but are you using the correct address? See link - it's fine here.

HTH

 

Any thoughts on this industrial linear PSU for my cMP setup?, posted on September 3, 2010 at 03:33:13
hfavandepas
 Hi all,

While surfing the internet, I stumbled upon this ‘naked’ linear PSU for industrial use.

What do the more knowledgeable inmates think of this ‘naked’industrial linear PSU. Model NMC 101 S from FG-Electronik?

Van FG-Electronik linear PSU NMC 101 s


http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/500000-524999/510259-da-01-en-LINEARE_STROMV_NMC_107.pdf
(see also link provided at the end of this post)

And also: http://www.fg-elektronik.de/powersystems/standardgeraete/ac-dc/linearnetzteile.html (unfortunately german language only)

Price: 139 euro (incl VAT)

* Could this be an ‘ideal’ candidate for a linear PSU to power the MoBo 5 Volt and 12 Volt DC rail on the P24?

The product information says:
This linear regulated power supply family with smallest possible residual ripples has been developed for the power supply of measuring and testing systems and other sensitive terminal devices.
There are a maximum of 4 galvanically isolated output voltages available. Three isolated GNDs can be provided in order to minimise faults. As standard, these GNDs are connected (solder points). All outputs are shortcircuit
proof. The transformer is protected by a thermal switch (automatic reset). The maximum output current on the high current branch and the output current during short-circuit is precisely adjustable and thermally stable.
• all outputs are short-circuit proof and thermally protected
• with suppressor OVP protection diode in the 5 V branch
• series regulator system, thus no HF interference
• adjustable current limit characteristic, foldback characteristic for the
high current range
• connections via plug pins and screwless power supply terminal
• European format
• 3 isolated GND
• patented control circuit for the high current branch
• excellent control characteristics
• very small output ripple

General technical data:
- Mains input: 230 V + 6 / -14 %
- Load rating: approx. 60 Watts
- Output voltage: high current range ± 10 % adjustable. The short-circuit current is approx. 40 %. i.e. current fold back and thus permanent short-circuit proof guaranteed.
- Static regulating behaviour: for a change in mains voltage of + 6 / - 14%, the output voltage changes by max. 0.02 %, For a load change of 0-100 % by max. 0.02 %
- Dynamic regulating behaviour : for periodic load change between 10 and 90 %, the voltage jumps stays smaller than 200 mV.
- Residual ripple: residual ripple and noise are under 2 mVss from 0 - 1 MHz
- Temperature class: T 40 E
- C-type core transformer: SM 74
- Primary fuse: T 0.5 A
- Dimensions: European plug-in card 100 x 160 mm. Height approx. 85 mm
- Weight approx: 2.0 kg


Some background information on this question:

I’m very keen on getting my (cMP) audio PC ALL linear powered (Processor, Mobo and sphericals).
And also every time I read Gstew’s enthousiastic reports on his progress in building his own DIY linear PSU’s, I want to take that jump.
(BTW: Gstew should be elected Audioasylum’s ‘Member of the year’ . Always enthusiast, always willing to share and always with a positive attitude).
But already for one year now, I hesitate for several reasons and I don’t dare too take ‘the jump’.

* Obstacles getting there:
-> I’m not very confident in that using 3 or 4 ‘standard’ ‘off the shelve’ linear bench PSU’s will meet the high quality standards that are needed.
(the absence of HF-pollution, stable current supply with rapid changing loads, ect.)
The specs of these ‘standard’ ‘off the shelve’ linear bench PSU’s, simply don’t mention anything about these characteristics.

-> If I would press myself really, really hard, I could build myself a linear PSU from recommended circuits like: Gstew, John Svenson, Mihaylov and others.
But somehow I have the feeling that these ‘almost (theoretically) perfect’ circuit designs, heavily depend on the use of also ‘almost (theoretically) perfect’ parts and are thus very costly (Black Gates, etc, ect)
Also: this would be my first time building such a linear PSU and I will probably learn a lot from it.
But….. ordering all the parts, investing all the time to learn to skills needed, ect etc.
It will probably not be a very ‘economical’ project.

So may be this ‘industrial’ linear PSU might be a good candidate for my audio (cMP) PC setup.
It ‘only’ needs to be boxed and connected.

So any thoughts on the suitability and DC quality output of this linear power supply form FG electronic series: NMC 101 S ?

All thoughts and responses are appreciated.

Mark

N..B. My current power supply situation is:
My audio (cMP) PC is still powered the ‘hybrid way’:
- ‘standard’ linear 12 V PSU on the P4 (processor)
- ‘standard’ 12 V linear PSU powers a picoPSU on the P24 (MoBo)
(this picoPSU model only leaves the 12 V untouched. 3,3 V and 5 V are still regulated)
- a second 12 V linear powered picoPSU powers: USB, HDD, DVD separately.
(this picoPSU regulates all 3 voltages)

 

RE: Any thoughts on this industrial linear PSU for my cMP setup?, posted on September 3, 2010 at 09:03:46
RayBan
Audiophile

Posts: 111
Location: Vegas
Joined: February 12, 2009
 You are right in nominating GStew for member of the year!! He has help me tremendously.
RayBan

 

RE: Sharing upsampling duty between computer and DAC, posted on September 3, 2010 at 09:57:03
hallcon83
Audiophile

Posts: 2
Location: Texas
Joined: September 2, 2010
 Thank You, I kept getting a red page saying that Microsoft is reporting that the sight contains viruses, and do not continue to site, so on your advise that it was okay I turned off my virus program - went to the bottom of the pg and clicked on help and selected continue to page - SUCCESS !!! - I'm rather computer use - "challenged" thanks for the help - letting me know that you were having no problems with the page , i was affraid to go past the RED screen - KR-dean

 

Certainly would make the job simpler, posted on September 3, 2010 at 12:14:56
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 short of going for a shunt style supply, this is probably as good as anything with a three pin regulator. At least, it appears to be a discrete regulator which should offer some performance advantage.

The price is quite reasonable. One could not assemble the same thing for much less if ANY less.

You are left coming up with a 3.3 volts rail which would not be difficult to implement.

The packaging appears to be quite compact would allow it to be close to the MB.

The ripple is not THAT low, but I am sure it is plenty low. Of course, the ripple in a dynamic situation is what counts. They claim this to be a notable quality of their patented circuit. One wonders what demands a de-tuned cMP computer has for the supply? One would think it not to vary very much other than (I am guessing) when requesting a new album and that would have little to do with sound quality since the operation is performed before playback.

One wonders if such a thing would make life almost simple. If one wanted to place some BLACK GATES at the P24 and P4 connectors it could not hurt!

I am going to see if the supply is available here. I am lazy and this would have to much better than any switching supply even if it might have a slight disadvantage to a supply built to phono amplifier standards!

Thanks for the notice.

 

RE: Certainly would make the job simpler, posted on September 3, 2010 at 14:49:22
hfavandepas
 Hi Rick,

Thank you for your responce.

Indeed it would make the job more easy.

But the linear PSU model NMC 101 S from FG-ELECTRONIK also has my special interest because FG-ELECTRONIK not only stresses the absence of HF-pollution but they also stress the importance of (dynamic) load regulation.

I have no education or background in electronics, so I don’t know if it is really important, but I’m under the impression that a very good load regulation is also critical for sound quality coming from digital resource. I don’t see any in dept articles on the importance of (dynamic) load regulation for digital resources, but I do see more and more hints that point in this direction.

* Some producers of PSU’s for audiophile digital resources stress the importance of there PSU’s designs having a very low internal resistance.

* On this forum I think it was Bertel (if remember correctly) who stressed the importance of low resistance in order to maintain a stable voltage and steady current flow too the mobo.

* And also in this (sales talk!) article on upgrading the squeezebox PSU the importance of dynamic load regulation is mentioned.
http://www.squeeze-upgrade.com/philosophy-behind-sbooster-concept-pm-30.html#A%20linear%20regulated%20power%20supply%20improves%20the%20sound%20quality%20only%20for%20X%
(Although I seriously doubt if the series resistance of the DC power line is a real problem in that matter).

I agree, it looks like if a de-tuned cMP PC is not a difficult load for a PSU. But on the other hand: some inmates on this forum do suggest that all the sound quality differences that can be heard on a cMP-setup through under-volting, under-clocking, using less RAM, an SSD, ect etc are because off less stress and demand on the PSU.

I’ll wait (ad hope) for some more response from other inmates, but since the PSU is only 139,- euro’s (so not super expensive) it might be worth to give it a try.

Mark

 

Who knows what the equivalent series resistance is, posted on September 3, 2010 at 20:01:03
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 for these supplies. It is not listed and when it comes to regulators it is a bit of smoke and mirrors. One can get great static measurements but when the load changes, like in a class AB amplifier, it becomes hard to be sure what it is. It is an indicator of good dynamic performance and the only way for us to find out is to use it and even then a shroud of mystery surrounds since - what are we to compare it to other than the ANTEC switcher which it damn well BETTER be better than since it cost about five times as much! But better is better - the question remains - how much better?

How much better than the ANTEC and then how much better than the PICO?

What one needs to know is: is a MB more like a class A amp or a class AB/B amplifier? Does an MB in cMP mode, more specifically, mimic a class A amp? My instinct is that it does but who knows what that is worth (my instinct that is)?

If the MB is more like a class A amp then the power supplies duties become much less difficult since it is not being asked to respond to changes - the definition of class A implies a steady state.

The supply does not seem to be easily available in the US - one would have to import one since none of the majors seem to represent the company, which is a shame since it does appear to be a step up from the average over the counter linear supply. I like the fact that it uses a discreet regulator instead of the ubiquitous three pin chip. One would like to assume this assure much better high frequency performance, important with computers playing music. I cannot imagine the average switcher having good performance in the high frequencies but there is another guess.

The trick with MB and CPU generated noise is how to sink it? The big advantage of the shunt regulator is that is does just that as part of its mode of operation. How any series regulator can reduce noise, other that its own noise, is a bit of a mystery. One would expect the power supply to be "quiet" - how it handles the garbage being returned to it via the ground is another thing. Maybe these clever Germans have found a way. If they have we will be very lucky music listeners.

If we could get a triple output including the 3.3 volts it would be very desirable. I have not found an over the counter supply with 5, 12 and 3.3 volts. We are the odd ones wanting to power am MB with a linear supply! I still like the idea of powering P4 with a separate supply. I continue to wonder if it makes any difference what powers the HDD and the USB. I just can't see how it makes any difference to use anything but the GRANITE supply.

This does seem to be an above average over the counter supply.

Are you considering ordering one?

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

Got the thing and it does not want to be installed within a cMP set-up, posted on September 3, 2010 at 20:02:54
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 any idea of what to do, other than starting over with a fresh WINDOWS install?

It keeps telling me to install OEM Graphics Drivers.

 

RE: Any thoughts on this industrial linear PSU for my cMP setup?, posted on September 3, 2010 at 23:47:21
smicyta
Audiophile

Posts: 125
Joined: February 19, 2010
 >>What do the more knowledgeable inmates think of this ‘naked’industrial >>linear PSU. Model NMC 101 S from FG-Electronik?

Certainly better than the SOLA/HD that I am using.

 

RE: Got the thing and it does not want to be installed within a cMP set-up, posted on September 4, 2010 at 00:11:43
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 It keeps telling me to install OEM Graphics Drivers.

Have you re-enabled the Windows Installer service? If not, do so before running the installer for the drivers for your USB monitor. When done, disable the service again. Not all program installers use it (cPlay being a case in point) so there's no guarantee that starting it will fix your problem - but, who knows, it just might . . .

 

I did that and re-started the other services that cics recommended, posted on September 4, 2010 at 10:18:17
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 to start to install programs, I did this from the beginning and ...
nothing happens.

I get the feeling this experiment will require a fresh WINDOWS installation.

I do like the idea of the small monitor enough to go through with it.

My remaining question becomes: if one unplugs the monitor does the driver still keep on "driving" and doing the same amount of mischief?

I am thinking to balance it out I can disable the drivers involved in the regular monitors operation? We'll see.

Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless,

Rick McInnis

 

First, thanks for the vote of confidence..., posted on September 4, 2010 at 14:00:47
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 But I'd put gene (first fully-linear supply), Mihalov (super linear supply show-and-tell) and JackWong96 (the most serious cMP ever seen!) ahead of me... and of course, the master cics!

Then of course, I have comments on the power supply...

- First of all, good find and it looks very interesting.

- I'm glad they include a schematic... one can make some informed judgements about it.

- It does use IC regulators for all but the main high-current output. Not a problem, just an observation.

- I am not a trained EE, so I don't quite understand the main h-c output circuit. It LOOKS like a negative rail feedback regulator connected as a positive rail regulator. I've seen this done with positive rail regulators connected as a negative before, but not this way. Not sure what benefits it brings.

- Other than that, the main h-c circuit does not look like anything special, but also not anything bad.

- Looking at the schematic and the different versions they offer, they MIGHT be able to configure one with +5v high-current and +-12v and +3.3v medium-to-low-current. It may take a different transformer wind, but is worth asking. Version NMC 103 looks close to this. From the schematic, it looks like the -5v in that version comes from the bottom-most regulator circuit AND that regulator looks as though it can be configured for either a positive or negative voltage output... so it may not be a significant change.

- It may be a very good platform for later upgrades or rebuilding. You could reuse the transformer and heatsink as long as you got the version with a transformer that provided the right voltages.

- The C-core transformer was mentioned by Thorsten as being the best-sounding option among the different types available... that's a definite plus for this unit.

- It'd be worthwhile seeing what rectifying diodes they use. If not soft-recovery ones, that's a fairly easy and very positive upgrade.

So my suggestion is ask them about a +5v, +-12v, and +3.3v version. Get that if they can do it and if they can't, do the NMC 103.

Then on special parts such as Black Gates, IMHO, there is no substitute for well-selected, good-sounding parts. Build up two supplies with identical circuits, one with well-selected parts and the other with a selection of garden-variety parts from Radio Shack or Farnell or whatever you're local electronic parts outlet and the one with the good parts will sound better. Look inside of a high-end amplifier, preamplifier, or disc-player from Ayre, Audio Research, or other respected high-end equipment manufacturer and you'll see many of those same high-test parts... and a few that you and I can't get because they are custom-made for them. I used these parts when I did my supplies partly because I've learned this lesson over the years and partly because I had some of these parts on-hand and knew where to get the rest. One thing to say here though... while the top tier of these parts are almost always pretty pricey, there is a middle tier where there is good performance available for much less cost, often about the same as the 'garden-variety' parts. Elna Silmec, Panasonic FM & FC, Nichicon Muse electrolytic capacitors and Vishay-Dale CNF55 resistors are all examples of these. But the trick on these is to find the ones that work well for your setup and hearing bias... I personally cannot stand those Panasonics and only rate the Elna Silmec as acceptable, but they have worked well for many others. Thorsten does not like Black Gates at all and they have worked well for me. No part is the best for everyone!

Then this is a good place to make mention of some other options for DIY Linear Supplies. I've not had much time I can devote to this right now, but have been on the lookout. I haven't found any single-unit building blocks such as this one, with the main issue being that many of them are single-voltage out and pretty expensive.

But I have seen some pieces that look very useful for the not-too-advanced DIY enthusiasts:

- AMB Labs has a single-board high-current regulated supply called the Sigma 11. It is all discrete components and with an appropriate heatsink should handle the ATX-20/24 5v high-current rail with no issues. It does not come as a kit, but they can supply the boards, semiconductors, and heatsinks, with you needing to add the transformer, resistors, and capacitors. I suspect it will sound better than an LT1085-based supply too! See it here: http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/ . One could also use it for the other voltages, but it would be overkill in current capability, but maybe in supply quality perspective.

- Twisted Pear Audio has a Low-Current Dual Power Supply kit. It uses LM317-type IC regulators. With at least larger heatsinks and possibly upgrades to LT1085 IC regulators, it can handle the ATX-20/24 3.3v & 12v and the P4 12v for an optimized cMP machine. You need only add an appropriate transformer to this kit... see it here: http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/power/lcdps.aspx .

- Peter Daniel at Audio Sector offers a set of bare boards for building up raw-DC supplies. They can be configured for just a raw supply or will also accept either fixed or adjustable IC regulators. These could be used to provide a higher-capacity/higher-current supply for either of the above or to do your entire supply using various IC regulator chips. You can see info on it here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/audio-sector/149672-universal-power-supply-pcb.html .

Anyway, I've rambled on enough today... need to go work on trying those LT3080's!

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

USB monitor experiment a failure, posted on September 6, 2010 at 07:35:34
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Never got it to "install".

The monitor's drivers require the VGA drivers to be installed from the MB set-up disk and then those drivers want NET FRAMEWORK to be installed which for some reason I cannot get to install without attaching the machine to the internet and I do not want to do that.

As I think about it all of that extra stuff running in the background is not going to help anything.

I guess I will try fmak's disconnecting of the monitor when I want ultimate sound quality, though I have not tried this is awhile I cannot remember how much difference it makes.

The question would be: are the drivers disengaged by simply unplugging the monitor? Somehow I think they are not so whether the thing is plugged in or not they are still doing their share of the "damage". But I will give it a try to be sure.

Oh, well, one hundred dollars wasted. I have no idea what to do with this thing!

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

I consider too buy one. But also consider too concentrate more on sinking/filtering, posted on September 7, 2010 at 04:25:46
hfavandepas
 Hi Rick,

To me it’s totally unclear what a digital audio circuit exactly ‘needs’ from a PSU. I also don’t know what kind of digital audio circuits designs are more sensitive than others, too the quality of the power that is feeding them.

As also mentioned by other forum members: swithing PSU’s can be used with great success in digital audio equipment. For instance: my Lavry Black DA10 DAC uses a switching PSU inside, but it’s considered to be among the best sounding mid-level-quality DAC’s. May the digital circuit designs of the Lavry are not so sensitive for the power quality that is feeding them. Or: the switching PSU design is optimized for feeding digital audio circuits in the Lavry. I don’t know. But I guess: probably both.

I also don’t know / have (strong) reservations on ‘just’ copying what is ‘good practice’ in the analogue audio domain too the digital audio domain, assuming that the same practice will also be ‘good practice’ in the digital domain. Some times it is, because essentially all ‘digital’ electronics work analogue too. But also a whole set of different rules apply when transporting and processing block pulses at mega Hertz speeds instead of processing ‘old fashion’ sine waves. Inmate Ryelands sometimes stresses this by pointing at Ivor Catt’s (a.o.) book Digital Hardware Design. http://www.ivorcatt.org/digital-hardware-design.htm#contents. I think Ryelands stresses a very good point here.

So that’s what do I do. I just wonder around in ‘the land of PSU improvements’ for my cMP setup while trying to avoid getting lost. I read how other inmates try too improve the sound of there cMP setup through optimizing the power supply. When it works (other inmates report sound quality improvements too) I try to copy that improvement. But only when it’s not too complicated or difficult because my knowledge and skills are (very) limited in this matter.

So the common sense around here on PSU improvements is to apply a combination of:
- Using a PSU that can deliver currents that vastly vary while keeping Voltage rock steady.
- avoid noisy PSU’s by using quit (mostly linear) ones and or battery’s
- avoid or remove noisy components
- ‘sink’ or ‘filter’ noise generated by noisy components on MoBo, processor, sphericals, etc, ect (too a REAL earth or to GND ?)
- using separate power supply’s in ‘dirty’ and ‘clean’ sections.
But I suspect that the ‘dirt’ from the dirty sections somehow travels around and still manage to reach the clean sections through various ways.

As a hobbyist with limited knowledge and skills I concentrate on the use of (pre-build) linear PSU’s and the sinking / filtering of ‘noise’.
Since using linear PSU’s is relatively easy, most inmates concentrate on using / building linear PSU’s. Unfortunately I don’t read so much on ‘sinking’ or ‘filtering’ noise that ‘dirty’ components are throwing into the power supply lines.

Although I sometimes post long posts (like this one) I’m not the kind of guy who likes lengthy exchanges on ‘philosophically’ or ‘scientifically’ arguments if something might work or not. My motto is: if you think (after good, sound and thoughtful consideration) something might work: than just try it.

So yes I’m considering too buy one. Gstew already provided me with a lots of information on the subject and also some guidance on which model too choose. But he also provided so much more other info and alternatives, that I first have too think and read about that.

Meanwhile I’m going too ask FMAK how he is doing his LF and HF filtering. It seems he belongs to the few inmates who not only concentrate on providing clean power but also on keeping it clean (filtering). I’m very interested in how he does it.

 

Good switchers are hard to design, not impossible, posted on September 7, 2010 at 07:49:37
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 as opposed to linear supplies which are pretty easy to get ninety percent right.

No one is interested, it seems, in building a LINN or NAGRA quality switcher for the computer so we are stuck doing it the old fashioned way.

The task is easier for a cMP machine versus a gaming computer since our demands on the machine are pretty steady. I cannot imagine there being large jumps in current demand while playing music.

I think fmak is using the PICO but I do not believe he has said what he uses to power that. He is using an ATOM board which probably makes the powering easier in exchange for not having as much control on the MB's BIOS. All is compromise.

It would be interesting for someone with the gear to test the PICO with a high quality 12 volts supply for ripple. It is probably unfair of me to compare the SILENT PC test results when they used the supplied power brick. It very well is almost as good as the Herculean approach. One can still power the P4 with a separate linear supply and get almost to where the fully linear supplies can get us.

Sorry for the surmising. I hope you do not feel I am waxing philosophically.

Embarrassed that I missed the three pin regulators on the German supply. Just looked down there too quickly and assumed it was just rectifiers. That does seem to make 2/3's of the supply rather pedestrian and something you could do for yourself. It is not that hard to assemble a three pin regulator supply.

Looking forward to hearing what you decide to do.

 

cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 11, 2010 at 17:52:35
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 I have followed to cics's advice.
My new configuration:
Intel Core i3-530
Scythe Kabuto CPU-Cooler w/o fan
Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H rev. 1.0 (rev. 1.0 differs from rev. 1.3 only chip LAN)
Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB (memory remained from an upgrade of the desktop computer).
My BIOS settings:










































It is received minimum downclocking of the processor, the graphics core and memory which allows stable cold start of system.
All devices on tab Integrated Peripherals except Onboard 1394 can be Disabled. PCI Latency Tools defines all devices.


To receive dedicated interrupt (IRQ) for esi@Juli it is necessary to install it into the far from the processor pci slot, and also to disable all usb ports except two (one to leave for the wireless mouse, another to leave for connection external hdd, flash usb etc. - F_USB2 header on the system board) and SATA controller as is shown in figures.(Excuse me but I have Russian Windows XP).









It is necessary to disable 1394 controller too.



It is possible to leave only three services.



And others screenshots:









The temperature after long listening (temperature in the room of 26 degrees of Celsius):



Also I confirm that the voltage -12V is not required for system board start.
The delay of Power OK is not required for system board start.
Thus it is necessary only three powers (+3.3V, +5V and +12V) for system board operation.


Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: One should ask for an RMA as soon as they receive the board, posted on September 12, 2010 at 10:20:50
tsearay
Audiophile

Posts: 90
Location: Ontario, GTA
Joined: January 17, 2008
 Still awaiting the board replacement from gygabyte. Cost me an additional 30 in shipping charges. Using my original P5B-vm 68xx. 192/tiny playback wish I could underclock this board to 900. T.
No worries!

 

a linear PSU from Thurbly Thandar Instruments (TTi) PL330QMT is on it;s way., posted on September 13, 2010 at 05:13:59
hfavandepas
 Hi Greg,

Thank you for your feed back.

I red the links and also did some more reading and thinking on building or on finishing pre-build linear PSU's and other pre-build power regulators. Like Teddy Pardo’s SuperTeddyReg’s

I also searched the costs for an enclosure / box, wires, terminals, etc etc for the ‘naked’ SMS 101 linear PSU. I also thought about all the hours work needed on putting it in a box ect, ect. I feel it will costs me too much time, effort and money.

So when I stumbled upon a (used) linear PSU this weekend from Thurbly Thandar Instruments (TTi) model: PL330QMT, I bought it (100,- euro’s). It has tree independent outputs. 2 outputs: 0 - 32V at 0 - 3A. Third output: 4 - 6V at 0.1 - 7A

TTi linear PSU’s are considered to be among the best linear PSU’s vailable. On Pinkfishmedia there are even guys who power there Naim NAC pre-amps with TTi linear PSU’s at very good results (they say).

However there is one downside: you need a cupboard or something, to hide these bulky monsters from the eye. They weigh a hefty 15.5 kilo’s (34 Lbs) and are very, very ugly.

If the raw TTi PL330QMT output isn’t good enough, I than consider too use the PL330QMT to feed Teddy Pardo SuperTeddyReg Ultra Low Noise Regulators with it.
But these SuperTeddyReg’s are also ‘naked’ and also have too be boxed. :-(

But first: let’s now find out which 12 V, 5 V and 3.3 Volt wires/pin’s on the P24 have to / can be bundled and how to start-up my MoBo.

Thank you for your feedback. I’ll report back (in a few weeks) if I managed too get everything properly connected and if I got the mobo up and working.

Mark

 

Thanks for the good advice within that Important Post), posted on September 13, 2010 at 10:15:28
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I had had my JULI@ in the slot nearest the CPU.

I had noticed the sharing of the interrupt request and had turned off the other devices that were "sharing".

Nonetheless, I moved it to where you said it should be (had to re-install the drivers) and I hope I am not imagining things but it seems to sound better. I was also able finally to get the INTERNAL GRAPHICS CLOCK to 400 without a BIOS failure. But, I cannot imagine that making that much difference, but how would I know?

More than a slight improvement.

Thanks, again,

Rick McInnis



 

the sound on the new platform much better than on the previous., posted on September 13, 2010 at 13:48:31
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Has forgotten to add that the sound on the new platform much better than on the previous.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 16, 2010 at 05:57:34
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Did you have to change anything in your linear PSU to adapt to the new motherboard?
Was it just a question of swapping new hardware and installing cMP2 again?
Thanks

 

Might be the way to go for ATX regulators, posted on September 16, 2010 at 12:42:09
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 and not terribly complicated and, best of all, affordable.

Mr. Salas has been working with this shunt reg design for quite awhile, mainly for hig voltage circuits. He offered this one for something near and dear to our hearts, a five volts, just under three amps, design.

I have begged, and I am hoping for assistance, on how to make it just a little "bigger", we'll see if he responds.

Look at post #36 here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/168631-5v-high-current-low-noise-regulator-4.html

I have many of the parts laying about that were intended for a FIRST WATT F-5 build that I gave up on when the J-2 came out; got one of those instead, so I am definitely going to make one of these.

The only downside to this reg, and that is debatable, is that it cannot correct for line voltage variations, no feedback loop. If you live in an area with large fluctuations this might not work.

Hope it works better than the USB monitor.

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 16, 2010 at 13:58:08
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Any changes in a power unit were not required and that is quite natural. This power unit has a sufficient margin of power on bus +3.3V and +12V, and the current consumption on the bus +5V of the new system board is less than of the previous.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

Totally agree... , posted on September 16, 2010 at 20:05:45
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Maybe if I wrote smaller posts, people would read all of them...

Rick, back when we were sparring about chokes in early August, I wrote this post:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/77866.html

Where I said:

"But ultimately I plan to go to current-sourced shunt regulators. I have heard from one of my 'tweak mentors' that cascading series regulators does not sound good (in his humble opinion), so except in one position, I haven't done that. But CCS-sourced shunt regulators, such as the Burson, the Tent, the OPA, the Borberly, and the DIYAudio Salas (and other) ones are ok. This link I posted in an earlier conversation:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/168631-5v-high-current-low-noise-regulator.html

Is for a variant on the Salas design for high currents and what I intend to try after the LT3080 for the ATX-20 5v & P4 12v regulators. I expect the only thing that will be better are Paul Hynes' regs, which may be next after that."

Not trying to be snooty, but I've been trying to point this out for some time now... that wasn't even the first time I linked it.

I think it will be a VERY good option!

Greg in Mississippi (maybe my shortest post EVER!)

P.S. It's worth a question to Salas, but I suspect the diode pair/2SK170 bias string/reference will hold it to 5v pretty well.
Everything matters!

 

Nobody ever disagreed, posted on September 17, 2010 at 07:39:51
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 It is accepted that the shunt regulator is the way to go by most. The problem is that the shunt regulator is very inefficient and not easily procured. For the five volts line there is not much choice either - for the power needed you are stuck with the LT1083 or paralleled smaller power "three pins". None of the "super" series regs can handle the power, either, so the choices have been few and unexciting.

The point was, since I know I have no idea how to begin, how does one come up with one? I have looked for years for something that would work better than the ubiquitous three pin regulator and could not get myself too excited about building a supply with them

Hynes seems to be too busy, and, unfortunately, too expensive. I had asked him about this four years ago. He never came up with a proposal. And, to repeat, if he did it would cost more than I want to spend. His regulator, since it contains an error amplifier would be more accurate in keeping a steady voltage but I am not that sure that that, for my application (having a steady AC line) is as important as it may be for those who live in dense urban areas.

This circuit is elegant and simple, fourteen parts, scalable and has the benefit of many other hobbyists having built it in its HV form.

Just needs a LARGE heatsink more than anything else.

For the record I posted a reference to HYNES shunt regs before you even were involved with this forum. So maybe I am being snootier than you?

When I got my reg for the RAKK DAC we discussed this and he started buying parts for the first generation GIGABYTE set-up which he has never put into operation. He has not been able to get himself interested in doing this.

As usual, I do not doubt his reg is better than the SALAS, the question is how much better? If one has an unlimited budget, go for it - but, I think one can find better, and more productive uses for money in maximizing enjoyment of their music system. Of course, I wish I had an unlimited budget ...

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 17, 2010 at 20:47:53
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Mihalov,

Are you still using the PicoPSU-based power supply or did you go to a fully-linear one like your associate's?

Has your associate with the fully-linear supply switched to the 32mn tech boards? If so, did he have to do anything special to get his supply to start the new board?

TIA!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Thanks, posted on September 18, 2010 at 05:47:30
tsearay
Audiophile

Posts: 90
Location: Ontario, GTA
Joined: January 17, 2008
 I have the H55M UD2H back and I am having some difficulty with the bios changes. I am using F10 not F9 for Bios should I change the bios to F9. Also I am using the L22 with a TNN300 and external monitor has anyone a similar setup. Not as straight forward as the G31M. T.
No worries!

 

RE: Corrected BIOS instructions and 512 mB memory notes, posted on September 18, 2010 at 08:03:36
tsearay
Audiophile

Posts: 90
Location: Ontario, GTA
Joined: January 17, 2008
 Comments! H55M-UD2H/TNN 300/L22 BIOS F10. Several times I have had to remove the L22 to reset the BIOS FWIW. I did the voltage changes last. and saved after each set of changes thus allowing the BIOS to recover where I left off. Was able to change all voltages except CPU core and Graphic core had to leave them at auto As well, with F10 DRAM voltage is 1.5 not sure about increasing to 1.56. Shall listen for awhile and let it burn in. Was wondering about manual setting the channel A timing pro or con? T.
No worries!

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 18, 2010 at 09:17:11
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Greg, in the near future I am going to replace picoPSU with the linear power unit which is giving out voltages +3.3 V and +5 V (as I already wrote the voltage -12V is not required for the system board start and +12 V already is available). It will be the toroidal power transformer of 60 VA with two secondary windings with 6 V on everyone and the printed-circuit board with diodes, capacitors and regulators on heat sinks.
In particular the possibility concerning easy changeover picoPSU by a linear power unit has induced me on platform change.
My friend has not passed to a new platform yet but any changes in his linear power unit is not necessary as I already wrote .
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 18, 2010 at 15:33:42
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Mihalov,

Thanks for the info. That sounds like it will be a great-sounding power supply. What regulators do you plan to use?

One thing I have been meaning to ask of someone who has the new motherboard... these new Gigabyte boards have the dual-bios setup like the GA-G31M-UD2H board I've tried. One thing that it did that made the startup a little more complicated was that it started up, then stopped, then started again after about 10 seconds (you could see it do this by the flashing on and off of the LED's on the board and on the PicoPSU).

Does the new H55M board do this too?

TIA!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 18, 2010 at 16:08:56
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 I am going to use my favourite regulator LT10xx-adjustable version (LT1084CP) for +5V and LM1085IT-3.3 for +3.3V.
My new system board starts also as well as previous, i.e. pressing the button on the front panel, the pause about 4-5 seconds, LED lights up over the button (an accessing to a hard disk), approximately in 3-4 seconds the screen with POST turn on.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

The power consumption of the my new platform., posted on September 18, 2010 at 16:45:10
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 The current consumption of the CPU (P4, +12V):
standby - 25 mA
start up - 275 mA (max) (first jump - 400 mA)
idle and playback w/o upsampling - 210 mA
playback with upsampling (96 kHz, Tiny, SoX VHQ) - 220 mA
loading of files in memory before playback - 270 mA (max)

The current consumption of the socket P24:
+5V
start up - 2.9 A (max)
idle and playback (all modes) - 2.54 A

+3.3V
all modes - 0.70 A

+12V
start up - 0.26 A (max)
idle and playback (all modes) - 0.21 A

Thus the computer consumes about 20 watt in a playback mode (w/o hdd, lcd monitor and sound card).
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Nobody ever disagreed, posted on September 19, 2010 at 21:21:13
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Sorry, I guess I was a bit snooty.

It was just that I've been trying to point out that high-current shunt regulator by Salas for awhile and noone seemed to notice.

On Hynes, I thank you for posting about him back in the early days of cMP. I hadn't heard of him before your mentions. I don't know if you saw the interview of him here:

http://www.hifizine.com/2010/06/paul-hynes-design/

He shows a picture of an ATX power supply that he'd done for a well-heeled computer audio enthusiast... When I inquired, he said "The SR2xr4 costs £1350, with silent transformers, fully built and tested." So that's one option.

So I guess that we're in violent agreement that the high-current Salas regulator will be a good option to try and likely the next-best thing to an all-singing/all-dancing Paul Hynes setup. I've got most of the parts for one here too, but it may be awhile before I put it together as I won't have sufficient space for the heatsinking required until I build a new case for my cMP.

And if you've followed some of John Curl's & Charles Hansen's comments about regulator circuit design and implementation, you might think that the Salas may have some chance of bettering a feedback regulator.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 22, 2010 at 03:01:51
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Just to be clear...
Your "revised" plan has:

P4 module:
(+12V) regulator LT1083CP

P24 module:
(+3.3V) - regulator LT1085IT-3.3
(+5V) - regulator LT1084CP
(+12V) - regulator LM1085IT-12
-12V not necessary
Toroidal power transformer 60 VA with ONLY two secondary windings at 6V for +3.3V and +5V.

(Originally you had toroidal power transformer 100 VA with four secondary windings at 5-6V for +3.3V, at 6-8V for +5V, at 12-15V for 12V and 12-15V for -12V.)

Peripherical module:
(+5V at 3A) - regulator LM1084IT-5.0
(+12V at 2A) - regulator LT1083CP

Could you please confirm it.
Eventually, as I am not so technical, let me know exactly where the differences are between the two.
Thanks

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 22, 2010 at 16:21:50
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Look here http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/72756.html and here http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/79532.html please.
(I used now the alternative decision of PSU is the so-called hybrid supply, which basis PicoPSU 120, providing all necessary voltages for socket P24 (P20) from entrance voltage +12 V).



This is the photo of my old platform (but the psu remained the same so far).
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 22, 2010 at 22:52:28
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks for your detailed reply.
Sorry I got confused between your system and your friend's uncompromising ATX linear supply.
This is the one I am interested in.
Does the PDF file of the full linear PS at cMP's site still stand or do you have any revision for it?

 

RE: cics's "Please switch to new 32nm technology (Intel Core i3-530, ...)", posted on September 23, 2010 at 15:00:48
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 I do not know yet. It is possible to make the new revision without the voltage -12 V. Nevertheless it is desirable to have practical acknowledgement of working capacity of such version. Though I do not doubt it.

Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: The power consumption of the my new platform., posted on September 24, 2010 at 23:42:17
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks. This is very usefull.

Could you please give me the power consumption of internal LCD screen.

I am following your ATX linear PSU design. I need to work out exactly +5V and +12V module consumption, powering a 1TB WD Caviar Green, a BD-ROM and internal LCD screen.

 

RE: The power consumption of the my new platform., posted on September 25, 2010 at 16:21:18
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Bibo,

I may be able to help out here somewhat. When I was considering trying the LT3080 on these voltage rails, I wanted to make sure the chip (which is limited to 1.1A) could handle the current requirements.

I measured the draw of the +12v supply to the internal monitor and that of the +5v to the USB ports (for the monitor's touchscreen connection + my cordless mouse).

I am sorry that I don't remember the exact measurements, but both of these were under 750Ma. My recollection is that the +12v monitor was in the range of 500Ma-700Ma and that the +5v USB was in the range of 250Ma-500Ma.

If these work, great. If you need more precise measurements (and noone else comes up with it), I can measure again.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: The power consumption of the my new platform., posted on September 26, 2010 at 13:19:58
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Greg,

Thanks.
I will stick to the idea of internal powering HDD and USB devices only - no BD-ROM.

 

RE: The power consumption of the my new platform., posted on September 26, 2010 at 15:36:16
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Unfortunately I do not remember a current consumption of the LCD monitor too. To measure anew it is difficult. Sorry. But I agree with GStew.
I nevertheless insistently recommend to change 1TB WD Caviar Green by 2.5 inch hdd. 3.5 inch hdd consume about 10 W against 1 W at 2.5 inch hdd.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 00:31:42
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 I have a Thermaltake DH102 case. It has a 7" internal LCD monitor and it is very similar to recommended Zalman HD160XT case.

As recommended, I have removed all accessories except the monitor. Indeed, I would like to power only the LCD screen.
Like the Zalman case, the screen takes the power from USB socket on MB. It has also a 24 pin PWR extension cable for MB to internal PCB - on the Zalman it is called Stand-by cable - which I have tried to remove unsuccessfully. If I do, the LCD screen does not power on.

If I'm not mistaken, my 4wire ext. cable carries: +12V, 5VSB, Ground, +5V.

Did you have any problem in doing without such extension cable on the Zalman case? How??
Thanks

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 05:24:37
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 The screen takes the power not from USB socket on MB but from the socket P24 on MB by "24 pin PWR extension cable"!
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 07:15:19
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks Mihaylov.

I think the two cases get power for their LCD/PCB in slightly different ways. On Thermaltake DH102 I also have a cable getting power from USB socket, not for USB devices.

I am looking at Zalman case manual.
Could you please confirm that the extension cable powering LCD monitor from P24 has only two wires? +12V and Ground?
On Thermaltake it has 4 wires: +12V, 5VSB, Ground and +5V.
Thanks.

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 07:28:10
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 On the Zalman case, the screen has two cables... the USB cable for the touchscreen layer and a standard 4-pin Molex peripheral cable (such as used to power an older non-SATA IDE harddrive).

The touchscreen layer needs 5v (and of course a ground) from the USB cable.

The screen uses the 12v and one of the grounds from the Molex peripheral cable.


The 4-pin cable pinout is 5v-ground-ground-12v and is described here:

http://pinouts.ru/Power/BigPower_pinout.shtml

I have a separate linear supply that generates unregulated 18v and provides regulated 12v and 5v on two separate Molex cables.

The Molex cable for 5v is used to provide power to the devices connected to the motherboard USB header (touchscreen layer & wireless mouse) as shown here:

http://www.cicsmemoryplayer.com/index.php?n=CMP.05Components

On this connector, I left the 12v pin out.

The Molex cable for 12v is used to provide power to the screen's Molex connector. On this connector, I left the 5v pin out.

Your screen likely needs 5v and 12v as above, but it sounds as though you have different feed points through the 24 pin extension cable and possibly the internal PCB. Does this sound right?

What are the connections like between the internal PCB and the screen?

Greg in Mississippi

Everything matters!

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 08:10:21
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks Greg.

You seem to contradict Mihaylov. He said - see below - that LCD monitor takes power from P24 Extension Cable. You're saying, from a standard 4-pin Molex peripheral cable.

Who is right?

Thermaltake's monitor takes power from P24 Extension cable with 4 wires (12V, 5VSB, G, 5V) and from USB cable (5V, for touchscreen layer).
I would need to find out if those 4 wire are all used by monitor and possibly its power consumption. For this last item it's probably similar to what you told me about Zalman's - ~700 mA.

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 09:12:58
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Bibo,

I was talking about the cables coming directly out of the Zalman monitor... it only has a USB & a 4-pin Molex. The standard setup MAY use a takeoff from the ATX-24 extension to connect to the 4-pin Molex and provide 12v... I haven't used that extension cable at all, so can't answer there. But there are only those two cables and the 4-pin Molex only has the 12v and the two ground cables installed... the 5v pin is empty.

Sorry if I've confused things a bit here.

I can look at that ATX-24 extension cable when I get home tonight if Mihalov hasn't answered by then.

Greg in Mississippi
Everything matters!

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 10:19:45
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks Greg for your patience.

I am not sure that you are wrong, perhaps Mihaylov is and I am simply confused. :-)
From Zalman manual it seems that LCD is indeed powered through a Molex plug:




Furthermore, it seems that P24 Extension Cable is for PCB Standby control only:




If this is the "case", then compared to Zalman Thermaltake's design has centralized PCB AND monitor powering in its P25 Extension cable, including standby.

For further info and exact power consumption of Thermaltake's monitor, I sent an email to Thermaltake support.

 

Why should one care how much power the HDD requires?, posted on September 29, 2010 at 13:22:47
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I can easily understand isolating the HDD from the system/MB but once it is powered independently what difference could it possibly make whether it uses ten watts or one?

If one was to power with a battery I could understand this concern. Using AC makes it very hard to understand the motivation.

 

RE: Why should one care how much power the HDD requires?, posted on September 29, 2010 at 15:05:52
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 - 2.5 inch hdd allows to use less powerful PSU which to make qualitative easier, i.e. with smaller level of ripple, which is cheaper and which releases less heat.
- More powerful electric motor in 3.5 inch hdd emits stronger RF noise and an electrical noise into ground bus.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 15:24:04
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 I have Zalman HD160XT Plus.



Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 29, 2010 at 22:18:26
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 Thanks Mihaylov.

This figures!
Now I can understand the differences with what Gstew was claiming.
The powering of my Thermaltake DH102 is more similar to your Zalman HD160XT Plus with the P24 EXtension Cable doing the powering.

From the pictures of your ATX Linear PSU it requires all 4 wires - 12V, 5VSB, G, 5V - doesn't it?!

 

RE: In other words, signal quality matters greatly, posted on September 30, 2010 at 08:07:29
Thorsten
Manufacturer

Posts: 4209
Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt
Joined: September 25, 1999
 Hi,

Apologies for the delay in posting that, I just had to get around to measuring this and to taking a picture...

Here is a picture of a 48KHz signal from a commercial USB->SPDIF converter which incorporates my design, the tube stage is fed directly from the FPGA output pin.



This picture is at a pretty extreme degree of zoom in, compared to most we see posted here. The whole picture covers around 1/3rd of a single period of a 3MHz signal (the base rate is 48KHz).

This trace is for the full system, that is USB-SPDIF converter, with tube stage, Canare "75R" RCA connectors (both ends) and 2m Cable. It tests the signal at the 75R terminated "far" end of the cable. I find this gives a far better representation of the actual performance than just testing the output.

Note that the loaded output voltage is just a touch over 0.8V Peak-Peak BTW.

Ciao T
Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

 

RE: PDF DOCUMENTATION OF DIGITAL TUBE STAGE!, posted on September 30, 2010 at 08:30:19
Thorsten
Manufacturer

Posts: 4209
Location: Somewhere nice on planet dirt
Joined: September 25, 1999
 Hi,

Looking at your 'scope traces and noting your comment on the SPDIF transformer I cannot but conclude that you are doing a lot of things rather wrong.

Above I posted a trace from my implementation, with ECC88, follower and SPDIF transformer. That is what it looks like if it is implemented well:



Ciao T
Thor

At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to intolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?

 

Those are legitimate reasons, but ..., posted on September 30, 2010 at 11:30:17
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 My fear was that you were saying you could hear a difference.

I am relieved!

 

RE: Zalman HD160XT and Thermaltake DH102 cases powering, posted on September 30, 2010 at 16:36:05
Mihaylov
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Moscow
Joined: March 11, 2010
 Yes. See Picture Gallery 1.jpg-4.jpg.

Visit my Image Gallery
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/

My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live

 

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