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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
32 bit, posted on April 4, 2009 at 14:50:46
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 Just thinking aloud:

The ESS Sabre32 has 32bit PCM audio input stream as default - would it be possible and would it make any sense to have SRC resample to 32/192...? Haven't thought about this yet, but apparently Asus Xonar soundcards can output 32bit (at least Xonar DX can, see test here: http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Review/116715,asus-xonar-dx-pci-e.aspx) - not sure if Juli@ can.

Anyone any thoughts if 32bit make any sense?

 

RE: Why obsess on the processor?, posted on April 4, 2009 at 15:40:59
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 thank you rick as always you're there to offer help.

 

cPlay outputs all audio at 32 bit resolution, giving 32/192k etc. Soundcard drops lower bits. nt, posted on April 4, 2009 at 23:17:32
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

testing pic posting, posted on April 5, 2009 at 17:12:49
Dr.Jazz
Audiophile

Posts: 444
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Joined: May 10, 2004
 Testing pic posting






second one




 

Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin, posted on April 6, 2009 at 09:19:02
hfavandepas
 For those who want too place smoothing caps on the power supply line to smoothen the ripple voltage.

When placing smoothing caps, one needs to know (or guess) the current and the estimated ripple voltage on that supply line. The ripple voltage can be found in product reviews on the www. The actual working current has to be measured.

In some posts I saw measurements of the current on the P4 pin of about 0.7 amp when working. And 1 amp during boot and startup.
I found these mentioned currents very high. So I measured them myself.

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L Bios F9
Intel: E7200 core2duo CPU ratio: 7 Busspeed: 160 CPU voltage: 1.0000 Volt

Readings when playing music:

Foobar2000
SRC 96000 0,35 - 0,36 amp
SoX 96000 0,26 - 0,27 amp
PPHS 96000 0,25 - 0,26 amp
--- 44100 0,24 - 0,25 amp

cPlay
SCR 96000 0,29 - 0,32 amp
--- 44100 0,24 amp

When CPU voltage is lowered to 0,90000 volt than all readings are 0,04 amps less.

Playing dvd’s with GOM player uses 0,27 – 0,29 amp.


How the measurements were done:
A NAIM Hicap acts as 24 Volt power supply.
The 24 volt is fed into a dc-dc adapter to make it 12 volt.
Then this 12 volt is fed in to a DC-DC ATX power Supply
(http://www.mini-box.com/PW-200M-DC-DC-power-supply)
The PW-200m only powers the processor through the P4 pin.
The multimeter was placed between the HICAP and the 24/12 dc-dc adapter.

Other power sources while the PC was working:
The mobo pin20/24 pin is powered by an Antec EarthWatts 430.
Sphericals (HDD, USB-ports, DVD, etc.) are powered from an external PC power supply outside the PC-case. (In: ac 230 V, Out: dc ± 50 W, 5 V / 3 A, 12 V / 3 A). I don’t mind DC wires inside my PC. But I definitely do not like 230 Volt AC wires inside the PC near mobo, soundcard, etc. So I didn’t choose the granite mini power supplies.

The PC is calibrated according the art of building computer transports except for:
- the network is still working
- the video is still working (1920 x 1080 ) and displaying too Sony Bravia KDL-32W4000
- EIST function is off. Corresponding XP power settings are also off.

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin, posted on April 6, 2009 at 12:10:23
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 do you run a cpu fan or are you using a fanless cooler? if so which one

 

RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin, posted on April 6, 2009 at 12:25:52
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 hfavandepas wrote:

In some posts, I saw measurements of the current on the P4 pin of about 0.7 amp when working. And 1 amp during boot and startup. I found these mentioned currents very high. So I measured them myself.

The only reported measurements of CPU current draw on this list in recent months that I know of have been mine so I assume it's these you are referring to. If so, your report is not quite accurate. In January, I wrote:

“I repeated . . . the measurements I did of the current drawn by the E7200 chip [on the G31 motherboard]. On power up, it draws about 1.5 amps. As ‘underclocked’ BIOS settings kick in during POST, this falls to about 0.6 amps. Once the OS is loaded and while playing music (with a NOS DAC), the chip draws between 0.4 and 0.5 amps or between five and six watts."

The meter I used was an old Avometer DVM 2001 with 1000-milliamp (ma) and 10-amp ranges. For obvious reasons, I started on the 10 amp range, saw the 1.5 power-on peak and, well, left it there.

In the light of your post, I dug out my other meter, a rather newer Fluke 8060 with a 2000 ma range, making it safe for this test.

I'm using a 12 volt linear supply to drive the CPU (and a "pico-processor" à la mode GStew for the P24 line). Except that I use a USB NOS DAC (so no soundcard) and run at 140 MHz and a nominal Vcore of 0.75, I think the systems are comparable.

I repeated my tests using the Fluke on its 2000 ma scale. The current peaked soon after power-up for about 30 seconds at around 1500/1600 ma (though it went off the scale on one occasion), falling by degrees to settle at 330/340 ma when playing.music.

This figures seems much the same as yours though I confess I'm less willing than you to place confidence in figures showing tiny differences when doing this or that.

The difference between my January measurements and the ones I've just done I'd put down to

1. Using a different meter on a different scale - a 10-amp scale is always going to be rough. I was happy enough to get any data at the time as I couldn't find anything else anywhere else and all I wanted was a ball-park figure. I got one.

2. Since taking those measurements, I've changed a deal of settings and no longer recall what is different between the two setups. The measurements are broadly in line with each other, much the same as yours and adequate for purpose.

What might be of interest is that if you set Vcore to "Normal" (i.e. 1.5 volts or about double what I used above), the system settles at 1070 ma when playing the same track as above. In short, setting Vcore with care can cut the current draw by almost two-thirds – not to be sneezed at.

Best

Dave

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on April 6, 2009 at 13:10:20
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Just a quick update... life interceded and I had no soldering-iron time this weekend, so no update on a separately-powered Juli@ using both the digital and analog sides.

Hopefully this coming weekend will be a bit more sane.

OTOH, the breakin of the previous weekend's mods continue... I'm not hearing that the parts are fully in-song yet, still going thru that love-it/hate-it rollercoaster stage.

Greg in Mississippi

 

if you can, get rid of the processor fan. :-) RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin, posted on April 6, 2009 at 15:48:02
hfavandepas
 Hi Theo,

I use a fanless cooler. This one:
http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-LOW-7000_silent-7cm-high-CPU-Cooler.htm .
From which I detached the fan part.

If I remember correctly I red in one of your posts lately, that you still use your processor fan.
If you run your processor at voltages lower than 1.0000 volt and you also under-clock, then I would go for fanless.
It made an improvement in SQ in my setup.

Some background:
At first, I ran the E7300 processor a few weeks with the original cooler that came with the processor.
I couldn’t find the type of fanless cooler that Cics shows in his AOB manual. And when I finally did find it, I found it horribly expensive.
But in those few weeks I had seen that, when under-volted and under clocked, the CPU doesn’t run hot. So I decided that other cooler models with enough heatpipes and a large exchange surface, probably also would do the job.

Very strange discovery:
There was an improvement in sound quality, when I changed from the original cooler too the fanless cooler.
The strange part is: …… I never powered the original coolerfan from the mobo. While using the original fan for a few weeks, I powered the original coolerfan from the second external PSU that also powers the HDD, USB, DVD. So I expected to find no difference in sound quality when removing the orginal fan. Because it wasn’t powered by the mobo, but powered by the second external PSU.

Somewhat strange:
This couldn’t be repeated with the coolerfan in my Zahlman ZM600-HP PSU.
Running the Zahlman coolerfan from the second PSU also made a little improvement in SQ.
But completely removing the fan from the PSU unit (just like removing the fan from the processor) didn’t make any further improvements in SQ.

So if you can, get rid of the processor fan.
:-)
Even though the processor coolerfan was powered by a second external PSU, the original fan and the processor ‘didn’t like each other’ in my setup.

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 6, 2009 at 17:00:04
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 As you remember, my issue was using JRiver.I am proceeding in small steps. I implemented the basic recommended Windows system changes and have been listening for a few days. I was surprised. I was expecting subtle changes but the resolution increased very noticeably. When using ASIO with the Lynx L22 before the changes, I found many recordings too detailed and sometimes fatiguing. It is a very resolving card to begin with. My system is also fairly resolving as well. I found that using direct sound with a DSP plugin (Audio Sandbox)has always worked the best for me. It softened the sound slightly and brought out the 3d hall ambiance nicely. The penalty was that I had to give up some resolution.

After the Windows system changes, the ASIO became extremely resolving. I can now hear many details, but the problem is that it includes the good, the bad, and the ugly. I could now hear tape hiss on many analogue recordings that I didn't notice before. I can hear intrusive groove noise on LP recordings that was less prominent before. Pages, turning, chairs, squeaking, faint coughs, all now there. I could probably hear Leonard Bernstein's pulse and stomach gurgling if I listened closely enough. Over time it is sharp and harsh. So, results so far, ASIO is now even less listenable.

But the good, is that the DSP with direct sound is even better than before because I am getting more resolution, but in a musical listenable way. I may stop here since I really doubt that I can get the system to sound any better. It now sounds detailed by a good increment (eg I can hear the overtones of the cello better)in addition to being solid, and very 3d, as it was with the DSP. On the other hand, it is so hard as an obsessive audiophile to leave it alone.

 

Give cPlay a try - you can simply play the actual wav or flac file directly, posted on April 6, 2009 at 22:28:42
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 It would be interesting to see how the detail is presented.

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 7, 2009 at 03:56:29
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 DBB wrote:

. . . before the changes, I found many recordings too detailed and sometimes fatiguing.

Thanks for your interesting report. I'm pleased you're happy with what you've done and think your approach is a good one - take from cMP2 what suits you and the way you like to listen.

That said, I'd argue that, if detail in a recording is "fatiguing" (and I know exactly what you mean), it's a sure sign that reproduction is not (or in your case was not) optimal.

Detail in music is not inherently fatiguing - we don't normally ask a string quartet to sit behind a curtain in case we get tired (though I've been minded to ask for a hat if sitting near the front when a tenor gets carried away).

At most venues, the nearer the band you get to sit, the more you have to pay. It can be tiring because it's too loud but that's a different matter. Venues such as London's Wigmore Hall are treasured by music lovers for their ability to make every nuance audible even to those sitting at the back, next to the sides, behind the dame with the big hat, etc.

However, I agree with you about spurious detail spoiling some recordings. Alas, when you improve your reproduction, it does seems that some favourites lose a little of their appeal.

But others take their place. The number of CDs that have "come alive" for me since I built a decent PC-audio system is very gratifying.

Dave

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 7, 2009 at 04:41:29
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 I like the hall analogy. I'm in NYC. Our two main orchestral concert halls are Avery Fisher Hall and Carnegie Hall. Avery Fisher depending on the seat is usually crystal clear but sometimes lacks warmth and resonance, and can even be harsh. Carnegie Hall is clear with no lack of detail, but balanced and warm. It seems to have kind of dark glow. I'm looking for the Carnegie Hall experience.

I feel I'm getting the best sound and access to my music with PC audio. For me the biggest single jump in quality was the use of DSP with the Lynx card. DSP is not exactly in fashion here. I rather have too much detail and look for ways of adjusting it, than too little. So the Lynx card works for me. I would be in a bigger hurry to try cMP if it wasn't a potential impediment to using JRiver conveniently.

 

RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin, posted on April 7, 2009 at 09:07:24
hfavandepas
 Hi dave,

Since we have the same mobo and processor it’s interesting to compare these measurements.
On my system when booting the current on the P4 pin in my setup is between 0,32 and 0,37 amp with one short peak at 0,40 amp. When the boot process has ended and windows is at rest than the current on P4 is 0,20 amps. (With Bios at: CPU ratio: 7 Busspeed: 160 CPU voltage: 1,0000 Volt)

You’re reading are; 1,5 amp at power up, then go down too 0,6 amps and while playing music you’re reading are about 0,4 – 0,5 amps on your system.

May be I’m not doing my measurements properly, but your readings are twice as high as my readings. I think that’s surprising.

So are there any other inmates who did some current measurements?

Best
Mark

Data:
Foobar2000 in optimized XP setup:
SRC 96000 0,35 - 0,36 amp
SoX 96000 0,26 - 0,27 amp
PPHS 96000 0,25 - 0,26 amp
--- 44100 0,24 - 0,25 amp
cPlay in optimized XP setup (note: not in cMP enviroment)
SCR 96000 0,29 - 0,32 amp
--- 44100 0,24 amp

When CPU voltage is lowered to 0,90000 volt than all readings are 0,04 amps less

LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin, posted on April 7, 2009 at 10:53:54
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 hfavandepas wrote:

. . . your readings are twice as high as my readings.

Sorry, but I don't see how you reach that conclusion. Yesterday, I wrote:

"The current peaked soon after power-up for about 30 seconds at around 1500/1600 ma (though it went off the scale on one occasion), falling by degrees to settle at 330/340 ma when playing.music."

You report readings ranging from 240 to 360 ma. From where I'm sitting, the steady-state (i.e. while playing music) values are pretty much the same.

I repeated the measurements today (I'd left the meter in place.) The steady-state reading has fallen to 320 ma. I'm not getting excited about that - it's a difference of three per cent. (It could be up to 350 ma tomorrow, making it +/- 3%. I'd be delighted if my meter - it's a good one - is accurate to +/- 2% when reading current.)

The 1500 ma peak on a cold restart was still to be seen today, though not for so long. Presumably that's because I'd left the BIOS at clock=140 MHz; Vcore=0.75v. (I wasn't expecting a "Spanish Inquisition".)

You'll see only a short peak if you do a warm restart. To test it properly, you need to store your settings, put the BIOS back to defaults and do a cold start. Then, if you don't get a peak roughly comparable to mine, something funny IS going on.

Whatever, the values you report all lie, give or take, within +/- 100 ma of mine - some are higher, some lower.

(What I didn't report yesterday was that I get a short peak of ~400 ma at the start of each track, presumably as cPlay decodes flac data.)

You don't say what scale you are using (though your data is in amps) or suggest the calibre of your meter. If you are using a 10-amp range, I'd be a little concerned about the accuracy of readings so close to the low end of a low-resolution scale.

You report 0.24 amps running cPlay at 44.1. Are you sure? That's less than three watts - judging by the way it eats batteries, I have a (OK, OK, it's very old) calculator that seems to need more than that.

Seriously, these are very informal "experiments". We have different meters (neither, I'd hazard, recently calibrated) possibly on different scales; neither of us recorded the temperatures of the CPU or the meter or checked how long the device has been running. We are running different software on a different configuration with different target data, etc etc.

I confess I haven't a clue as to how normal manufacturing tolerances might be reflected in crude tests like these.

I just don't see any "Eureka" moments coming from comparing these data - they seem pretty well in line. In short, we can report with reasonable confidence that an under-clocked E7200 chip draws between quarter and half an amp from the P4 line when playing music.

Anything else risks reading into the data what is not there.

Best

Dave

 

let's skip this discussion. This is going nowhere. RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin, posted on April 7, 2009 at 13:28:59
hfavandepas
 Hi Dave,

Lets skip this discussion.

Somehow you feel offended or annoyed if somebody else is posting data that is not inline with yours. You also don’t seem to have any interest if there are other inmates who performed current measurements on the P4 pin.

Every body can read our former posts and draw there own conclusions based on that. Or even better: perform there own current measurements.

LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 7, 2009 at 14:31:36
mschneider
Dealer

Posts: 350
Joined: February 1, 2007
 greetings from left field!!!! i am not sure if this is the cause or even a cause, but i noticed both of your pc cases, and several other things re on carpet -- perhaps you are experiencing some sort of static problem -- i've had audio gear which sounded like dog sh*t placed directly on carpet.

try to put a board or some kind under the machines, and keep them from touching the carpet-- also, put something other than the foam under the cap-mod board. this may also be producing static electricity effects.

may not solve the problem, but you may get some sonic benefits anyway.....

see what happens and let me know.

 

RE: let's skip this discussion. This is going nowhere. RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin, posted on April 7, 2009 at 15:28:12
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 hfavandepas wrote:

Somehow you feel offended or annoyed if somebody else is posting data that is not inline with yours.

I'm not offended (or even annoyed) that you did the measurements - this list is short on empirical data. My point was that, on examination, the two "data sets" were in fact pretty much the same and that the differences you claim to have noted were based on (twice) misreading what I'd reported. What's your beef with that?

What did disappoint me was that you seemed to have done the measurements sloppily and then implied that the fault was mine. Why not, instead of throwing a hissy fit, answer my queries?

You also don’t seem to have any interest if there are other inmates who performed current measurements on the P4 pin.

You could be right - what consenting adults do in private with their P4 pins doesn't interest me. However, I did, a while back, report some data for ripple voltages in the context of adding smoothing caps to MoBo power supplies. Bill (Old Listener) pointed out that my figures were way different from those on respected review sites and queried if I had done them properly. I did them again them and found that I had been sloppy - Bill was right and I was wrong. Why don't you try and do the same?

Meantime, skip the abuse.

Dave

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 7, 2009 at 16:24:08
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 good ideas thanks

 

case closed, posted on April 7, 2009 at 16:48:05
hfavandepas
 Hi Dave,

All I did was mentioning that in past I had read a post on: current measurements on the P4 pin.

I wrote:
“ In some posts I saw measurements of the current on the P4 pin of about 0.7 amp when working. And 1 amp during boot and startup. I found these mentioned currents very high. So I measured them myself. “

I did this by heart. But my memory wasn’t far off.

Your post:
Posted by Ryelands on December 27, 2008 at 11:06:42
………..
Incidentally, it also makes it easy (ish) directly to measure the CPU’s current draw, something I’ve never seen reported (though I’m sure it’s done often enough). So far, I’ve measured it only briefly and only on the 65nm Biostar board.

I had assumed it would vary wildly but it was surprisingly stable: an E1200 processor drew 1.4 amps on power-up and during POST but, as the OS loaded, it dropped to and stayed at between 0.7 and 0.8 amps and rose again by about 100 milliamps when running cPlay (without upsampling).
………..

Since I found these mentioned currents very high (for my Gibabyte GA-G31M-S2L mobo + E7200 processor), I decided to measure the currents on my P4 pin myself and also post the results on this forum.

So owners of a Biostar board + E1200 processor can use your readings.
And owners of a GA-G31M-S2L + E7200 processor can use my readings.
No more, no less.

After that you jump on me with pretty strong language and lengthy discussions on a wide variety of topics. The rest one can read in the former episodes of this post.

I now consider this case / post closed.

LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt, posted on April 7, 2009 at 23:11:59
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt, posted on April 8, 2009 at 01:02:25
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 cics wrote:

What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower!

Now that you pin me down, I have to say that I'm not sure what VID is in this context and my note may have been muddled as a result.

Whatever, in the BIOS's MIT menu, there is a setting for CPU Voltage Control. This is set to 0.75000. (Just below that is a note that the "normal" CPU Vcore is 1.15 v.)

With this setting (I've just checked), CPU-Z reports that Vcore is 0.704 but I have also noticed that the BIOS menu "PC Health Status" says that it is 0.724.

I know what VID is in general terms but as to exactly what these figures mean and which Vcore reading is right, I've no idea.

I have run the board with CPU Voltage Control set as low as 0.65 but, especially when cold, it tended to restore defaults on powering up so I settled on 0.75 and left it at that. (Some report SQ differences after making minute changes to CPU Voltage Control but I can't hear any.)

I have a hunch you're right about things being more stable with EIST off but I've not tested it systematically.

Dave

 

RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt, posted on April 8, 2009 at 10:30:00
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 VID is an 8 bit code set from BIOS to CPU. Each VID reference relates to Vcc specifications as per Intel. You have VID of 0.75000 set - I'm currently testing 0.73750 (lower values are unstable). The "normal voltage" BIOS message is a CPU setting (each is set by Intel). I have one E7200 at 1.15 and another at 1.21 (which does 0.83750).

Can you measure overall power consumption using your fluke on main 12V supply to P24 & P4 (i.e. use one PSU).

 

Help! cMP2 setup blocks Weiss asio, posted on April 8, 2009 at 13:59:27
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I have learned that in an unmodified xp pro system I can get cPlay and the Weiss contol softare, for that matter, to recognize its asio and the device. In my much-of-the-way cMP2 setup, the Weiss software says the device is inaccessible and cPlay doesn't find the Weiss asio but only finds asio4all for the dac. Any suggestion about what to unmodify to get this firewire device and asio driver to be accessible?

 

Which RAM/processor? Also question on external storage?, posted on April 8, 2009 at 15:31:41
Apokalypse
Audiophile

Posts: 222
Location: Victoria
Joined: April 1, 2005
 I'm having some problems sourcing the parts that are recommended. For the RAM what would be a better choice out of these:

- KINGSTON Twin Pack HYPER X 2x1 gig (2gb) DDR2 800Mhz CL4 (1.8V 4-4-4-12)
- KINGSTON Twin Pack HYPER X 2x1 gig DDR2 (2gb) 800Mhz CL5 (2.0V 5-5-5-15)
- KINGSTON Twin Pack HYPER X 2x2 gig DDR2 (4gb) 800Mhz CL5 (1.8V 5-5-5-15)

Or possibly 2gb of 667Mhz Hyper X if I can find it?

What about the processor? I can't find an E7200. Would an E7400 be the equivalent?

Another question, is it possible to use an external HD with cplay? Wondering if I can store my music somewhere else to reduce HD noise.

Thanks for your help guys :)

 

cMP cPLAY and LINUX, posted on April 9, 2009 at 02:18:23
n_vincent
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Joined: November 27, 2007
 Dear CICS,

I questionning myself about LINUX.

Don't you think that the total control of the operating system would be a very good advantage, the footprint could be reduce to its minimun.

I'm just a linux user but the information I can get from power user is that linux is used to creat a "real time critical embeded system", only the needed kernel componant are implemented. This could be a very good to run cMP cPLAY.

What is you thinking about that ?

Nicolas.

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 9, 2009 at 02:27:58
n_vincent
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Joined: November 27, 2007
 To my understanding 2 parameters are very importante

- the timing
- the power comsuption

HYPERX are good at timing but bad at power comsuption

Value Ram are quite good for the timing and very good for the power comsuption

The following can be good chose

KVR533D2N4/256
http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KVR533D2N4_256.pdf

KVR800D2N5/512
http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KVR800D2N5_512.pdf

 

RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt, posted on April 9, 2009 at 04:15:32
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 cics wrote:

Can you measure overall power consumption using your fluke on main 12V supply to P24 & P4 (i.e. use one PSU).


Just to be absolutely clear, the figure below refers to the Gigabyte G21 MoBo.

When playing flac-format music data without upsampling with the CPU clock at 140MHz, VID at 0.75000, PSU at precisely 12v, EIST off, 512 MB Kingston "ValueRAM" and a "Full Monty" cMP2 setup, the motherboard and CPU typically draw about 1630 ma.

Allowing for dissipation in the "pico-PSU", call it 1600 ma or about 19 watts. Last time I measured this, it came out slightly higher (see cics's earlier request for this measurement). I don't think I've tweaked anything significant in the meantime but, as the first measurement was taken with a different meter on its 10 amp scale, I'd tend to put more faith in this one.

BTW, after a tedious to-and-fro session, it's clear that my setup at least sounds better with EIST OFF. Who'd have believed it mattered?

That'll do me for current measurement for a while - it seems oddly emotive for such a humdrum topic.

Best

Dave

 

RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt, posted on April 9, 2009 at 07:57:55
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Thanks.

Got SQ improvement with VID 0.73750 (Vc as per CPU-Z shows 0.704V). As expected, CPU temperature dropped nicely by 4-6°C. Now testing VID 0.73125 (Vc is 0.688V) which is the lowest stable VID in my case.

Setting Host Freq to 150 and upsampling to 192k @145db SNR should yield overall power consumption below 20W (with 256MB RAM)!

 

I think someone is running cPlay in Wine/Linux, posted on April 9, 2009 at 08:02:29
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I doubt whether the B9 options would work under Linux.

Definitely worth trying - if it works, one could avoid Windows OS license costs. Comparing SQ with Windows XP would be useful as well.

 

Any E7xxx Processor will do. On RAM, use single stick at CL3/4 1.8V (256MB for 44.1k material else 512MB), posted on April 9, 2009 at 08:10:29
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Yes HDD can be stored externally using eSATA connection.

 

Solved, posted on April 9, 2009 at 11:20:08
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Weiss asio only works with the SSE4 version of cPlay. I had been using the SSSE3 one. Also, Use audio features needs to be selected under the properties of the device.

 

RE: I think someone is running cPlay in Wine/Linux, posted on April 9, 2009 at 13:07:09
n_vincent
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Joined: November 27, 2007
 Wine increase the footprint, it's better to use windows directly.

Is the B9 options rely on windows xp capability ?

I was thinking about a lynux system like www.lynuxworks.com/rtos/rtos.php or others, By design it could help a lot about latency and jitter.

My thinking is not about licence costs only to audio quality.

 

ok I've got a new mobo installed, posted on April 9, 2009 at 13:42:22
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ok I've got a new mobo installed. I had to reflash F6x drivers and reset bios but ok now and it boots ok.

I'll let it run a few days with cplay 2.0b vs 18. Once burned in and stable I'll try to see if it affected my noise while running cplay 2.0b version 20.

 

RE: Closer, posted on April 9, 2009 at 14:56:55
mschneider
Dealer

Posts: 350
Joined: February 1, 2007
 Dawnrazor -- I just went thru the same thing-- have rcc put the cue files within the subdirectories that the music files are in -- that should work.

 

RE: Closer, posted on April 9, 2009 at 21:50:18
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Segers,

Don't know how I missed this. Anyhow, on the ram load option in cmp, I have it selected, but AM using cplay. It works fine.

 

RE: Closer, posted on April 9, 2009 at 21:53:51
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey mark,

I think I figured that out but RCC would get the artist names wrong. But Alan made some updates and now I can get it to work fine I think.

However, I already switched back to the old files that had one big file and a cue sheet. The reason I was trying to redo the cuesheets was because I cut some of them into individual .wavs for winamp, and took the liberty to actually title the tracks since my cue sheets never had the info.

So now I have switched back, but soon will get the cut files and get it to work with RCC.

Thanks for the info!

 

RE: Closer, posted on April 10, 2009 at 03:11:28
seger
 Works, but it's not necessarily the best way to use cPlay. Why ask cMP to load to RAM when cPlay itself is doing it for you in a more sophisticated way? cMP will load all at once at the beginnng (if you have sufficient memory), but cPlay doesn't - it gets going quicker and allows you to use as little as 256MB RAM with large file sizes (wav). Most folks are reporting improvements with less RAM - I find it so, a bit more relaxed, natural sound, very immediate.

You may want to use RAM load from cMP if for some reason you are already using 1GB RAM, and for memory playback you need it if you are using other media players.

 

Failed again although new mobo sounds alot better, posted on April 10, 2009 at 03:13:06
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Went metallic after 35 minutes of cplay 2.0b vs 20 playback. I guess it is really the cpu now.

Sidebar note though: the new mobo sounds way better than old. Very solid bass and apparently more dynamic.

If new cpu doesn't do it I'm done with the quest--nowhere else to go.

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 10, 2009 at 09:24:17
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Dbb,

I think seger is right about things being non optimal and that detail is not a bad thing when things are optimal.

What bios changes have you done? COuld you underclock? Are things fanless?

Also, what kind of power are you feeding the computer? DId you get the granite supply and are you using it to power the hdd. I hope you are using sata.

Recently I lost the magic mostly because I moved things around and when I connected it back up I had the granite supply connected to a cheap computer powerstrip. Before I had it into my counterpoint pac5. It was the "dirty" psu so I thought it didnt matter. Well I was wrong, and putting it back into the pac5 really helped.

My hunch is that the drives or power or both are hurting things, and fans too if you have them. So try doing as much of the hardware things too.

And I was thinking a bit about the gui. If you could sort by composer, conductor, and album, would that be enough?

 

RE: Closer, posted on April 10, 2009 at 19:54:14
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Thanks Segers,

I had no idea it worked like that. Guess i just saw the option and thought it was a good idea. I changed it but havent had a chance to listen yet.

Thanks.

 

RE: Juli@ PSU highlights, posted on April 11, 2009 at 20:10:23
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001



I've got my linear supply for powering the Juli@ separately completed and tested out today (see attached picture) and was looking at an alternative way to feed the voltages into the Juli@, by lifting the input pins on each of the regulators and feeding the appropriate voltage to each. My goal was to power the Juli@ separately without having to cut the voltage finger connections... with the revised caps, it doesn't fit into the computer on my header board anymore, so I can't just cut the connections on the header board.

But what I found made me think that won't work... and it's also something to know for those who want to power the Juli@ separately when using only it's digital card. Poking around, I confirmed that the +-12v only shows up at the inputs to the appropriate regulator chips (U11, U13, U10) and the 3.3v is only provided by the output of U1, BUT I found the 5v coming from the motorboard going to several chips other than the U1 regulator... specifically U18 (the DAC) on the analog board and U2 and U8 on the digital board.

So there is likely another SQ improvement available (for both those using the Juli@ just as a digital board and those using the whole card) by taking Alfred's mod to another level by cutting the 5v PCI connector feeders and adding another +5v regulator feeding into the DVCC1 point.

And I'm back to cutting the 10 connections on the Juli@ so I can feed it from this separate PS. :(

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. I have very high hopes for this PS. It's a tweak-ish supply... no magnetic hardware, MSR860 diodes, Jensen 4-pole caps, Dexa regulators for the +-12v, 5v, & 3.3v, and minimal wiring.

We'll see if I get time to try it on the Juli@ tomorrow.

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on April 11, 2009 at 20:57:49
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001



2nd update... first, the breakin continues, but I have a tale to tell about it.

After the upgraded Juli@ had been running about a week, I was not happy with the sound. It was muffled and confused sounding. Not what I'd expect from a sprinkling of Black Gates. So I swapped out the modified Juli@ for my un-modified control... no joy, still sounding muffled and confused.

Oh, I remember, a few days after tweaking the Juli@, I decided it was time to finally replace the Holco series Rs in my stepped shunt attenuater with those nude Vishay's I'd had around since last summer. Could the Vishay's be bad? No, they weren't, but when I looked at it, I saw solder joints that weren't pretty. I guess I was tired when I made those joints. So I cleaned the solder off and resoldered... and the magic was back.

The sound of the modified Juli@ after two weeks of burn-in builds on the early strength of a competently & confidently served wealth of details (adding a lot of texture and 'dense-ness' to the sound) and adds an even quieter background, stronger dynamics, stronger deep bass, very well-defined and natural trebles, and a much-improved ability to handle complexity with aplomb.

IF you were building a cMP setup and didn't have a separate DAC, the stock Juli@'s analog outputs by themselves are not bad after being fully burned in... and this modification takes it to a whole new level.

Next there's powering the Juli@ from power separate from the motherboard. Danged, Alfred beat me to it for the 3.3v on the digital card, but I did get a full-house power supply built for just this purpose today (see attached picture).

It's a tweak-ish supply... no magnetic hardware, MSR860 diodes, Jensen 4-pole caps, Dexa regulators for the +-12v, 5v, & 3.3v, and minimal wiring. With a little time-management tomorrow, I may be able to cut the PCI power fingers and wire it in.

I'll keep you posted.

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 13, 2009 at 05:50:20
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 I only did the three Windows system changes, which I thought would be very modest. I don't think I'll start with hardware changes anytime soon. I ended up swapping some cable around, I removed the silver cable from the position directly into the amp and replaced it with a good copper cable which was in my pre amp. The sound is now back closer to where I want it. I did some A/B testing against vinyl. It is close, but still lacks that last bit of solidity and weight of vinyl. I thing there is probably a slight net improvement from the windows changes, but I might have come full circle. Have you a/b'd your system against vinyl? I think that is the ultimate test.

Sorting by composer, conductor, and album would not work that well. I rarely listen to music by album. I could use album as a misnomer for work, but that still would not be enough. I need composer, work, performing artists, and genre. I also like a category for source, ie LP, and sample rate. A further problem, is even if cPlay had all these custom features tomorrow, it would probably take a year's work in the evening to get it set up.

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 13, 2009 at 06:53:03
seger
 JRiver with WASAPI in Vista would probably be your cup of tea - with as many customisations a la cics as you can do short of cMP. It will only improve the musicality of the sound, not make it harsher. Also, you will not lose any of the functionality you need, and the system will be lighter. You won't need more than 1GB RAM. Here's the post about setting up Vista I mentioned in an earlier post: Vista Setup

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 13, 2009 at 10:02:37
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 Hello seger:

Thanks for the link. How close would you say this is to the sound of vinyl, if you have had a chance to compare. The reason I ask is because the Lynx card works so well for me that I feel I am already close to my ideal. Its that last 2% of vinyl-like weight, ease, and smoothness that I would like to squeeze out from digital.

David

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 13, 2009 at 11:49:06
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Dave,

If you can get the granites installed which is pretty easy and cheap at $20 a pop, I think that would help you a lot with the sound, especially if you can get the usb connections powered this way too.

Even if you chose not to do that, getting the drives powered off the granites is a plug and play affair.



 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 13, 2009 at 12:31:48
seger
 I'm not able to make a fair comparison. That last 2% you speak of may be in the realm of personal taste, so only you can find it by experimenting. What you gain with pc audio is the freedom from the noise of vinyl as grooves and needles suffer wear and tear, and the convenience of having all your music a click or two away, but you are probably right that the naturalness and richness of vinyl is the ideal digital audio aims for. My suggestion was based on your post - I don't think you'll be happy with the limitations of the cMP or cPlay UI, and I thought the JRiver wasapi presentation might suit you as it is quite rich and full. And if the DSP you spoke of works in Vista, you could play with that as well. Try some different things, and let us know what you hear.

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 14, 2009 at 00:52:40
Bibo01
Audiophile

Posts: 648
Joined: December 18, 2008
 DBB,

I have a similar set-up as yours and I intend to use J River, at least at the beginnig. Can you please tell me which Windows mods you made?
Thanks

 

RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . ., posted on April 15, 2009 at 06:48:32
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 I did just a few changes that are described at page 27. I replied more specifically to your email.

 

Is it possible to have a bad copy of Windows XP Pro?, posted on April 16, 2009 at 03:29:27
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 My version is XP Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 2600). I also have SP3. Maybe I should try SP3 in an effort to fix the 'metallic' problem. Comments anyone?

 

RE: Is it possible to have a bad copy of Windows XP Pro?, posted on April 16, 2009 at 10:09:15
hanssatink
Audiophile

Posts: 79
Joined: September 13, 2008
 Do you use a Bufallo DAC?

If yes, try buffering C11 and C12 each with a low esr cap.
This tweak did help to get rid of 'metallic' sound

 

RE: Is it possible to have a bad copy of Windows XP Pro?, posted on April 16, 2009 at 11:56:38
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 no I want to get a buffalo but not until I solve my issue. right now I'm listening to juli@ analogue outs. I have a benchmark dac.

 

Can we retest /nopae (i.e. remove it), posted on April 16, 2009 at 17:28:55
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 My findings after long term use is to NOT use this option. Initial sound is very good but is not consistent: long term SQ changes towards being "bright".

What are your results with "/nopae" removed?

 

RE: does cMP sound best with the least amount of memory?, posted on April 17, 2009 at 13:52:11
audiogremlin
Audiophile

Posts: 292
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 10, 2006
 My laptop has 2 GB RAM. Should I be lowering it to increase sound quality? Will this make a difference and why?

 

Has anyone used the stockintel cooler w/o the fan?, posted on April 17, 2009 at 16:29:51
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I'm running 93 deg F with the fan, I'm thinking that at .85 or below vid and 160 or below host clock control it can't get that hot.

Anyway is it a good idea or just simply not worth trying?

 

Why not one of Giga's new 2-oz. mobos?, posted on April 17, 2009 at 16:45:52
Kristian
Audiophile

Posts: 755
Location: Seattle
Joined: September 24, 2008
 Check link below; these mobos have some nice touches, like thicker power traces, solid caps, ferrit core, etc. Someone else suggested this, and there is now plenty of independent testing showing they run much cooler, and are electrically more stable. They're ATX-sized, though.

 

RE: Why not one of Giga's new 2-oz. mobos?, posted on April 18, 2009 at 01:41:24
abysstw


 
Check the linked preview, the BIOS not only offers "...a lot of voltage options, but the individual adjustments are extremely liberal as you can see below".

The CPU vCORE can be set to a minimum of 0.5v! Seems quite promising to me.

 

To nopae or not to nopae, posted on April 18, 2009 at 02:30:02
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, again, cics! I tested it. The results:
My CMP-cPlay is built around Biostar mobo, all optims done exept minlogon
Played first WITH nopae Jethro Tull Roots To Branches. This disk is recorded very openly, rather bright and in quiet passages we can easily hear artificial echoes or reverberation of brushes on cymbals. If played on a bright cd player these echoes turn into constant HF sheen, or noise, or haze... Now, this is what happened on b 22 WITH nopae.
I removed it from boot.ini and No more sheen, or haze. However it should be noted, that though initial attack of short sounds was not lost, some slightest level of detail was gone. I'd say the loss is infinitesimal or probably even imagined.
On Van der Graaf Generator's Trisector, which is recorded almost ideal no loss occured. Such results. My opinion is Not to use /nopae. Had it since b 20
Serge.

 

retest of "/nopae", posted on April 18, 2009 at 02:30:27
monaco
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: August 1, 2008
Results from removing and then re-applying "/nopae" to my CMP1.2/cPlay2.0b4 rig - comparison made using HDtracks 24/96 FLAC sampler files are:

removing /nopae - mid-range has more noticeable detail, treble less prominent as a result yielding a 'refined' presentation

re-applying /nopae - bass more tuneful with better dynamics, treble more obvious but overall effect somehow more 'alive'

As I have XPPro SP1 and am limited to 2.0b4.....YMMV


 

RE: Can we retest /nopae (i.e. remove it), posted on April 18, 2009 at 04:20:46
hfavandepas
 Hi Cics,

It took me a little D-tour, but now reading you’re post, I’m leaning too the same conclusion to remove it.

It now explains why my cMP setup sounded not okay after adding a dedicated linear power supply too power the P4 pin last Wednesday. After adding the linear PS too pin 4 the sound was like ‘on steroids’. Everything bigger and impressive but not something you want to live with.

First I blamed the simple linear power supply for that. It looks a bit like this one. Only with much better ripple specs ! (max 2,5 mV)
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=310&EID=3075&txtModelID=234 ( I can’t show the actual linear PS I ordered because one cannot directly link into the dutch version of radio shack (www.conrad.nl) too show it .

Adding the b22 cplay version today bettered things a little. But the sound was still not okay.
Very detailed, but still ‘forward’ and ‘in you’re face’. Hi-Fi-isch if you like.

Reading you’re post this morning, I removed the /nopae and that did the trick.
Now everything sounds balanced (not forward and upfront anymore)

By the way: very very nice last version (b22) of cplay
Again there is more 3D, space and better treble without being forward and upfront.

LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Can we retest /nopae (i.e. remove it), posted on April 18, 2009 at 04:53:44
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I agree, what was initially more transparency turned out to be too much over the top after a while.

nopae is out.

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 20, 2009 at 08:36:35
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Calling sonics (alfred). need to ask some questions about one of your juli@ power supply mod. You can either pm me or do it online (I lost all my email so I don't have your email id to initiate a pm).

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 20, 2009 at 09:47:40
hanssatink
Audiophile

Posts: 79
Joined: September 13, 2008
 http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/4/49480.html

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 21, 2009 at 06:28:11
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I have a 5 volt rechargeable battery I want to use for this mod but I haven't used it for over a year and the battery is predictably fully discharged. So I plugged in the charger but it doesn't seem to charge. Any ideas on how to bring it back to life or is it dead forever?

 

Interesting experience with p4 voltage as set on Antec pot, posted on April 21, 2009 at 07:16:46
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I am trying to perfect my system to be 'by the (cics) book' (thanks to Gregg for this suggestion). I have added 2.5" lap top drive, a fanless cooler on order etc etc and all things have improved sq and system stability. I also have tried different voltage levels on p4 by adjusting the Antec onboard potentiometer. For many months I had it set all the way counterclockwise which gave me 11.82 volts (as measured by my vom on the p4 cap mod board--more easy to get at and definitely more accurate than cpuz). Anyway I tried adjusting the pot and with cplay 2.0b 22 the mere adjustment of a few tenths of a volt is not subtle from a sq perspective. Too high and the highs dry up and it sounds bland. Too low and it sounds wimpy. So I found that 11.94 was perfect for my system--good dynamics/bass and almost perfect highs--very ambient/airy with great attack/release and zero hardness.

Now the sweet spot may vary for everybody but I am running juli@ analogue outs and I currently have my host clock control at 165 and vid (as shown in cpuz) at .83 volts. I was very surprised at the sensitivity of my system's sq to this p4 voltage setting. If you try this re-check bios because it kept resetting host clock control to auto and mememory multiplier to auto when I did the experimenting. But if you stick with it and get your 'normal bios settings' back, the sound will change a lot.

 

Great feedback, thanks. /nopae has been removed from recommended settings., posted on April 21, 2009 at 07:28:36
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: does cMP sound best with the least amount of memory?, posted on April 21, 2009 at 07:32:49
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Using less RAM will improve SQ. More RAM consumes more power.

A laptop setup is not ideal (no separation of CPU and mobo power supply, very limited BIOS flexibility, fans, cannot use PCI or PCIe cards, e.g. Juli@).

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 21, 2009 at 11:32:20
hanssatink
Audiophile

Posts: 79
Joined: September 13, 2008
 I fear that this batterie has died.
Lead batteries are very sensitive.

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 21, 2009 at 11:49:26
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 You are probably right but its a lithium ion battery. Still think it might be dead?

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 21, 2009 at 12:04:48
hanssatink
Audiophile

Posts: 79
Joined: September 13, 2008
 lithium ion can be unloaded without damage i think. But not sure.
Have you load it with a higher voltage.

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 21, 2009 at 12:43:25
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 well I have a trickle charge on it. that should work but doesn't seem to.

 

Got 2.5" drives, fanless configuration and..., posted on April 25, 2009 at 06:51:36
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ...sq is superb. However I do get the metallics (depending on day) every 3 - 8 hours. The only thing left to try is xp sp3 in place of xp sp2. does anybody think this may be worth a try?

Look I can easily live with current set up listening to juli@ analogue outs but there has to be a solution. I can also listen to juli@ digital outs if I listen to to cplay 18 or cplay 22 via 96 but I am curious why I have this issue.

 

Why is there a trojan in cMP?, posted on April 25, 2009 at 07:02:23
audiozorro
Audiophile

Posts: 628
Location: VA-MD-DC
Joined: January 9, 2007
 I looked through the previous posts that basically said don't worry but gave no explanation.

It's my understanding that Trojan Generic is a trojan program that can contain a malware program or it can perform actions that user doesn't even notice. Trojan Generic acts very aggressive and can even destroy users computer system, steal personal data. Sometimes even antivirus programs can not delete this Trojan. Trojan Generic can look like it is desirable but actually it contains very something harmful. Trojan Generic can allow other computer users to get full access to users computer system through a security hole. Trojan Generic should be detected and deleted as soon as possible for your own safety.

So after I load cMP on someone else's computer, what do I tell them to calm their fears that I just installed the cMP_1_2_final_setup.exe that contains a trojan?

 

RE: Why is there a trojan in cMP?, posted on April 25, 2009 at 08:26:19
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 audiozorro asked:

Why is there a trojan in cMP?

The short answer is that there isn't. There is no malware of any sort in cMP or cPlay or in any of the ancillary software recommended for cMP2 systems.

One or two users have reported that some malware detection programs issue a trojan warning when cMP is installed. However, the program's "user base" (some users have worked professionally with computers for a long time and are not inclined to light-minded risk-taking with data) have overwhelmingly discounted these warnings. Among its reasons for doing so are:

1. "False Positives" are, from time to time, inevitable when using malware detection software. As cMP is a replacement for XP's Explorer shell, the occasional "false positive" is perhaps not altogether surprising;

2. Dozens of users have installed the program time and again without any problems that could reasonably be put down to its containing malware.

3. If it did contain malware, it would probably be the only example whose author has been in regular and congenial correspondence with his "victims" for the best part of two years;

4. There is a wealth of information out there on detecting and removing "Trojan Generic" that should, aside from the above, put your mind at rest.

I hope that helps,

Dave

 

But there IS a Virus, posted on April 25, 2009 at 09:06:05
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 It is called ahkosk or smth like that, it is discovered by Avast antivirus and is removed, but sometimes it remains, the files of virus are ntde1tect.com and autosomething. It is harmless at first, it manifests as always opening the same window after booting up, mostly C:\*folder* Also it easily migrates onto flash drive that I use for wav and cue transfer between comps.
Serge.

 

Questions on deeper optimization for the knowledgeable., posted on April 25, 2009 at 09:23:20
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, everybody. Here are some questions
1. At the root of windows there is the Microsoft beloved infant-terrible, called OLE object linking & embedding Can it be safely removed with autoruns program or any other way?
2. As I haven't done ALL optims by autoruns, I decided to take a second look - cd burn, tv, windows streaming video, media player can be safely removed. Several processes like internet explorer cannot even be marked, WHY?
3. If we type msconfig in start - run, we get a prog, that enables to have different services and autorun processes to be disabled - did anyone try it?
4. As I haven't succeeded with minlogon yet, I have an "inferiority complex" and started to read deeper into Your posts. This is the last AND MOST important question - How to implement minlogon on BIOSTAR with XP SP2 and with ASIO4ALL. Is it possible? What to take care of? Please answer the last question only if You have real experience with all three at once.
Waiting for Your help.
Serge.

 

RE: Got 2.5" drives, fanless configuration and..., posted on April 25, 2009 at 09:35:36
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello! Theo! I have written to You that You will eventually need reinstall windows. It is not sp2's fault. The fault is in some of the deeper optimizations done not carefully enough, when You might have unchecked some process that is vital, instead of unnecessary one.
This is still my opinion. You don't have to make it sp3.
Serge

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on April 25, 2009 at 11:59:34
57gold
Audiophile

Posts: 45
Location: Tampa Bay
Joined: January 4, 2004
 Anyone out there build and set up these babies for technically challenged guys like me? Any businesses that do it?

 

What does the author have to say?, posted on April 25, 2009 at 18:11:22
audiozorro
Audiophile

Posts: 628
Location: VA-MD-DC
Joined: January 9, 2007
 I am not implying that the author has deliberately planted a Trojan in his program. I am also aware that not all anti-virus software is equally capable in detecting malware.

It is also my impression that most users of cMP do not use anti-virus software on their computer player and a dedicated computer is recommended for cMP with no network or Internet capability. Thus the majority of cMP users wouldn’t be aware of a possible Trojan and if they are not connected to a network or the Internet any possible Trojan would not be an issue.

I did a search on “Trojan†and “cMP†in Computer Audio Asylum and came up with 10 records to date. I have seen nothing from the author, so I’m not convinced he is aware of these observations of malware or any possible problems. I do think it’s a bad practice to distribute a program without warning users that their anti-virus software may detect that the downloaded file is infected and that after the setup installation an anti-virus scan may report a Trojan Generic.

 

RE: What does the author have to say?, posted on April 25, 2009 at 21:19:25
Uzeb
Manufacturer

Posts: 26
Location: Sunshine Coast BC
Joined: November 5, 2008
 audiozorro did you see this post

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=32201&highlight=trojan+in+cmp



PC XPpro TC Electronic Konnekt-8 firewire i/o, 2-Tact 2150's, Genesis 500 modified speakers, Virtual Dynamics & XLO cables

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on April 25, 2009 at 23:30:02
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Well... life happened and I didn't get the time to hookup the separate power supplies to the Juli@ until late this week.

And I wasn't happy with it at first. No, it didn't sound bad... but I expected to be blown away and all I got was a little additional detail with a tradeoff of slightly diminished bass and dynamics. Not what I expected out of serious separate supplies. Yah, it could have been component break-in, but I doubted it. Heck, even replacing the caps on the Juli@ made a larger difference.

But this evening, I had a thought and went with it... and it's all changed. My raw supplies were regulated to 5v/+-12v using Dexa discrete regulator boards. Then they went into the 3.3v/5v/+-9v chip regulators on the Juli@. Tonight I replaced the the 3.3v and 5v regulators on the Juli@ with additional Dexa boards. Now I'm getting the improvements in bass, detail, density, texture, and dynamics I expected at first. I guess that the combination of the high-bandwidth Dexa into the somewhat lower bandwidth chip regulators was not ideal. This cMP's sound is VERY compelling and emotive now... and I'm a very happy camper!

And its only gonna get better as it breaks in. Woohoo!

If I get time tomorrow, I'll replace the +-9v regs on the Juli@ that power the output opamps with two more Dexa. Could be good!

Later this week, I'll post a report on what I did to connect up the supplies (I had a learning or two there) and post some pictures.

Between you and me, my cMP is not very pretty... my Zalman case is now FULL with 7 separate linear supplies. I've been mulling over ideas for a custom case... I'll need to move on that if I want to do much more tweaking with this beast! It's also a poster-child example on the benefits of SMPSs... My setup takes up 3-4 times the volume, weighs 5-6 times as much, and produces 2-3 times more heat than an equivalent SMPS.

But it sounds so good now!

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. The difference in sound between the modified Juli@ and having it powered by properly functioning separate supplies reminds me of an early tube-audio exprience I had a few years back. I'd I built up a phono stage that used 6DJ8 tubes and outfitted it with recent-manufacture tubes. Then I found a pair of NOS Mullard 7308s. Woah! I did not imagine it could sound that good. But the best thing here is that none of this setup will age and need to be replaced (except maybe the harddrive someday).

 

RE: But there IS a Virus, posted on April 26, 2009 at 01:17:45
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 Serge wrote:

It is called ahkosk or smth like that . . .

Ahkosk.exe is NOT a virus or a trojan or any form of malware. There is a popular GPL automation utility called Autohotkey embedded in cMP to drive its remote control facility and ‘on-screen’ keyboard. The latter relies on a little executable whose name is the acronymn of:

AutoHotKeyOnScreenKeyboard:

i.e. AHKOSK.exe.

These have been discussed on the forum (inc the reasons for using ahkosk in preference to Microsoft's OSK utility) and I think they are mentioned in the documentation though I haven't checked.

I don't use either facility so I've no direct experience of them. In fact, I'd prefer it if loading them was made optional to lower the memory footprint but it's not what I'd call an urgent mod. Meanwhile, see:

http://www.autohotkey.com/

and:

http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/topic18378.html

*** After posting this, I found that Uzeb has already pointed elsewhere to a thread on the "cMP is malware" rumour. I apologise for any duplication but it's worth nailing this one.

Best

Dave

 

RE: Got 2.5" drives, fanless configuration and..., posted on April 26, 2009 at 03:43:42
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 thats what I thought 3 weeks ago when I reloaded xp sp2. but it didn't get rid of the problem. thanks for your comment.

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on April 26, 2009 at 08:48:09
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Sunday morning update...

It was one of those 'listen until it's way-too-late and I fall asleeep' nights.

The cMP with linear, linear/hybrid, and seperately-powered Juli@ is sounding very, very good.

The improvement in sound quality powering the Juli@ with separate linear supplies and replacing the 3.3v & 5v regulators with high-bandwidth units is in the same magnitude as powering the motherboard with linear/hybrid supplies, perhaps even larger.

Of course, one could look at this and say that I'm just getting to the same place as anyone who's using a separate DAC with their cMP. But as Alfred showed us, an I2S-connected DAC has some potential for greater performance than SPDIF.

Me, I don't care what they say. I'm in listening heaven!

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on April 26, 2009 at 13:59:54
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hi Greg,
latest update of Julia PS:
I fed the digital section without any regulator directly with LIpofer Batteries. They deliver 3,3 Volt with an inner resistance of 5mOhm-
Sound is phantastic and shows the bad influence of any regulator.

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on April 26, 2009 at 15:44:49
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Alfred,

Great update. I'm glad to hear you've made further gains.

Personally, I'm cautious about powering things like sound cards which expect a fairly limited range of input voltages directly from batteries which go through a somewhat larger range between fully charged and near empty (easily over a volt for Li-ion and Li-Poly).

Also, I'm not convinced of the evils of regulators, given they are done well.

But I think the key learning here is that computer audio, just like amps, preamps, CD players, whatever, benefits from improvements to the hardware. As best as I can tell, few people are doing things like providing better power supplies for their audio computers the way we are. Personally, I am amazed at the level of improvement in sound quality that I've gained over the past 2 months with some simple and not-too-expensive upgrades.

And of course, there are many ways to make those improvements... battery power, AC power supplies, tweaks to the SMPSs, etc. Just like tubes and solid state!

Let's keep tweaking & finding better ways!

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: What does the author have to say?, posted on April 26, 2009 at 18:12:09
audiozorro
Audiophile

Posts: 628
Location: VA-MD-DC
Joined: January 9, 2007
 Thanks, I did review the earlier posts but I still felt uncomfortable especially if I had to install the cMP program on someone else’s computer. Although McAfee and Norton are the two most widely used anti-virus programs, in most independent tests there are several programs rated much higher in effectiveness and finding new viruses, whereas McAfee and Norton often lag behind.

I do feel somewhat better, more knowledgeable and I thank everyone for their comments. My solution will just be to follow the recommended setup, i.e. a dedicated computer not connected to the Internet or networked to other computers. Thus the anti-virus warning of a Trojan Generic will have no consequences, whether real, imagined or benign.

 

RE: What does the author have to say?, posted on April 27, 2009 at 13:53:57
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
I think this a non issue. One of the posts you must have seen is the one from me with a bitdefender screen shot.

But I still run cmp on my rig. I am not worried.

And cmp is not alone. Here is a screen shot from a player that does give that warning you require. I bet he is using similar code to cics for the remote control. From the Mp3toys set up menu( I circled it in red):





Like cmp, I think this is a legit player too.

 

Storing music on two internal drives, posted on April 28, 2009 at 12:22:43
Kristian
Audiophile

Posts: 755
Location: Seattle
Joined: September 24, 2008
 Some neophyte questions here. If one is to use 2.5" drives but needs more space than they offer, say 2 500G drives together, how does one do that without using RAID 0?

Or, is RAID 0 plenty reliable to do that, and if so, one then also needs a RAID controller card, right?

Alternatively, can't one use a separate case for a main 3.5" 1-1.5TB disk, powered by its own small PS and connected by E-SATA? Would that introduce its own problems?

Thanks!

 

RE: Storing music on two internal drives, posted on April 29, 2009 at 00:31:30
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 No need to use RAID as audio data is RAM loaded (either by cMP or directly in cPlay), i.e. no HDD traffic takes place during playback. Only remaining benefit from RAID is faster load times (bottleneck to RAM loading is HDD read speed).

If you insist on using RAID then look for a mobo that offers RAID in SouthBridge chipset (avoid adding a RAID card). Gigabyte's GA-EG45M-UD2H offers RAID through ICH10R SouthBridge. This mobo may very well be the best choice - more feedback needed.

Other options: rather use 2.5" 500GB drives (either internal or via eSATA). Avoid standard 3.5" drives alltogether (too noisy and you will hear it from a distance, more power consumption and greater vibrations). Best choice is SSD drives but costs needs to drop.

 

Building a cMP, posted on April 29, 2009 at 00:35:05
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 It's not difficult doing this yourself. Many have built cMPs with minimal experience. A good place to start is your local PC Games Store - they can help with the full build (especially if they source the parts).

 

RE: Building a cMP, posted on April 29, 2009 at 05:10:51
sonis


 
Hi cics,
i think you have resolved the remaining problems of 22. SSE4 is now useable
and smoothness is comparable with the earlier SSE3 Versions.Low freq. are dryer ,space is the same, overall increased deteils.

 

Any advantages in cd audio extraxction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ?, posted on May 1, 2009 at 06:01:58
n_vincent
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Joined: November 27, 2007
 I'm questioning myself about advantages in cd audio extraction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ?
I currently use EAC with my standard PC with all audio quality options on and accurate rip with a plextor px-230A cd (the best cd rom I have found for audio extraction).
The extraction is done in one file with cue file.
The audio file should be perfect.

 

RE: Any advantages in cd audio extraxction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ?, posted on May 1, 2009 at 06:21:00
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I think you will find that most cMP users do their extractions on another non-dedicated computer using EAC or dbPoweramp and then transfer them to their cMP optimized setup. I don't recall reading any claims that doing it directly in cMP computer provides better results.

 

I had asked cics about this ..., posted on May 1, 2009 at 08:06:55
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 and he said he could think of no reason it would make a difference.

He may have found reason to change his mind since then.

I know when I started doing it on the OTHER machine and was able to use the database for names of artists and songs, I was pleased with that!

I could hear nothing detrimental and sometimes wondered if something was better, which could be due to the disk drive.

Once you do it this way you will never return. Just remember on the GIGABYTE board to set BIOS for USB 2 or the transfer takes forever and, of course, after you are done disable USB 2, per cics's instructions.

 

RE: Any advantages in cd audio extraxction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ?, posted on May 1, 2009 at 14:28:17
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I've been doing my ripping on a different computer than my cMP as advised by cics. I cannot think of any reason that it should make a difference... as long as you have a bit-perfect transfer to the disk, the cMP should not care where it came from. Heck, even a Mac should work ok! ;)

When I do my transfer from the ripper computer to the cMP, instead of using USB, I'll take the harddrive out of my ripper & connect it as the secondary drive in my cMP (Of course, you do this with both computers off!). The SATA transfer is incomparibly faster than even a USB2 transfer.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: Juli@ Follies... the epilogue, posted on May 1, 2009 at 20:27:56
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 I say the epilogue because I'm basically out of significant mods to the Juli@.

The last thing I did this week was to remove the redundant Dexa regulators between the raw DC and the on-board Dexa regulators... so now I:

1. come directly from the a raw +-18v supply to the on-board +-9v regulators for the output stages (this used to be fed from a +-12v regulator pair)...

2. come directly from a raw +11v supply to an on-board +5v regulator for the DAC (this used to be fed from the same +12v regulator above)...

3. come directly from another raw +11v supply to an off-board +5v regulator for the digital board which then feeds the on-board +3.3v regulator.

My goal here was to reduce the number of cascaded regulators, which one of my tweak-mentors suggests will not sound as good as these regulators used solo per voltage rail. I need to go back and forth a couple of times to confirm which I think is better, but both are very good.

At this point, the sound I'm getting is breakthrough compared to what I had at the beginning of this odessey. Detail, naturalness, impact, density, dynamics, complexity, composure when things gets loud and/or complex are all several levels above using the stock Juli@... which was no slouch itself in the linear/hybrid-powered cMP environment.

I have a few more tricks to try at this point...

1. Finding & cutting superfluous +-12v & +-9v links... I don't use the balanced outputs, so I could un-power those chips. Also since I'm feeding the input voltages directly into the regulators, all of the upstream on-card bus traces are now just sources for interference and noise pickup.

2. Alternative RCA outputs, such as the WBT Next-gen's.

3. Determining if there are transistor-switched muting circuits & disable them.

4. Adding a fourth raw DC supply to feed the 3.3v regulator separate from the digital 5v.

5. Battery-power, especially direct battery power for the 3.3v digital supply as suggested by Alfred.

6. Alternative regulators, such as the Paul Hynes & Teddy Reg units.

7. Physically shield the card within the PC environment.

While I think these are all worthwhile avenues to pursue, I strongly suspect I have made the changes which will provide the greatest improvements... except possibly the battery power and shielding.

So I'll continue to tweak my Juli@ as time allows, but given where I've gotten, I will start to turn my attention to other areas of possible improvement... First, I have some ideas for a custom-fabricated case that will provide better physical and electrical isolation... and second, start to look at the up-coming alternative motherboards and possibly motherboard tweaking.

And of course, watch for SSD prices to fall.

Any other suggestions?
Greg in Mississippi

P.S. I'll try to post some pictures of the seperately-powered Juli@ this weekend.

 

RE: Juli@ Follies... the epilogue, posted on May 1, 2009 at 23:12:01
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12592
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey GS,

What about vibration?

How about something like Jon Risch's sandbag tweak on the timing crystal or some rope caulk on the card like all those $39 toshiba dvd player mods had?



 

Good point, DR, posted on May 2, 2009 at 07:07:20
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Sorry, I do that type of thing so automatically nowadays that I don't always mention it.

I damped the crystals when I did the first mod to the Juli@'s cards... look closely at the picture below in this thread and you can see the small squares of damping materials. Then when I've replaced caps and regulators, I secure and damp them with a strip of Dynamat or 3M damping material from Michael Percy.

Also I've damped the Zalman case top and sides with pieces of Dynamat Extreme and damped all the heatsinks on my add-ons supplies and regulators and the motherboard.

And the Zalman sits on a damped stand on Herbie's damping feet with a collection of Herbie's damping pucks on the top.

My impression of all of this was that the effect was subtle... the largest improvements came from siting of the Zalman on the damping feet and the case damping. More significant was getting the HDD on damping feet with a weight block on top of it and positioning the SATA and power cables to minimize vibrations fed back into the structure.

Greg in Mississippi

P.S. I've also wrapped the HDD in ERS cloth plus a swatch of the stuff on the back of the Zalman touch-screen. Again, the effects were subtle if any.

 

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