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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

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    ...
RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on March 29, 2009 at 08:18:40
Kaedrin


 
Thank you for sharing sir!

How large are the Sanyo OsCons used for your Juli@ mod? Are there any particular reasons (other than price and size) for using them over BG Ns on the digital board?

Did you replace all the original caps on the digital board? The pictures wouldn't load in my browser for some weird reason.

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on March 29, 2009 at 08:24:44
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Would you consider doing these mods in exchange for an original juli@ card plus some $? I just cannot imagine doing that type of miniature soldering. You don't have to set a price on AA. But just curious if you would entertain doing it. If so we could settle on a price in private.

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on March 29, 2009 at 08:42:46
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Let's take this private.

I'll email you later.

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on March 29, 2009 at 09:45:18
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 If you send me your email address, I'll send you the pix.

On the Oscons, I used them...

1. Because I'd heard they were good for digital power supply bypassing and I hadn't used them before.

2. Because this post referenced another post that recommended Oscons:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/35892.html

3. To minimize the impact on my dwindling supply of Black Gates.

I used 180uf/20v Oscons that are currently on-sale at the Parts Connexion. BG N's should work as well or better.

On the digital side, I replaced C1, C2, and C3, which are the caps at the input and output of the 3.3v regulator. Then I added the two caps as suggested in the post I referenced above... note that soldering the one across BC25 is a VERY delicate operation. You want to have your cap secured by double-stick tape and the leads bent to exactly where they need to be before soldering. Then using thin solder and a fine-tipped iron, make a very quick solder joint at one end of BC25, let it cool, then do the one at the other end. Otherwise you can lift and/or damage BC25.

I hope this all helps!

Greg in Mississippi

 

Artist = PERFORMER as in header and not in TRACK details. nt, posted on March 29, 2009 at 10:35:53
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: More feedback on juli@ analogue out, posted on March 29, 2009 at 10:42:28
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 During playback, you should only have 12 processes. Check that you only have the 2 required services running (often Crytographic Services starts when doing thing in device manager and must be manually stopped).

If not stable at 150, then try 160 or 165.

Problem appears to be power related because you can't create it when using FD. Standard HDD causes a significant power spike (and associated ground noise) when transitioning from idle to sequential read. Using main PSU doesn't help either!

I was hoping you were doing the test with a laptop drive - any chances of this?

 

How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on March 29, 2009 at 11:27:57
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I've been toying with this idea for a while and if we could take all the innovation from Alfred, Greg and Promethk the result could be very interesting. The idea is to plug in a new PCB onto the digital section with:

  1. high quality caps providing cleaner power to Juli@'s digital section using power header pins
  2. would need to look into 3.3V clean power as per Alfred
  3. new DAC chips would be TI (Burr Brown) PCM1794A (hw control) which offers 132db SNR @ 9V output. this chip can be configured to have its internal reconstruction filter disabled (i.e. use external filter)!
  4. output stage using miniature tubes
  5. faraday cage?
  6. Neutric or Hicon XLR connectors
  7. card would use 2 PC slots
  8. DAC's 5V analogue input and 3.3V digital input is highly refined (also cater for battery supply)
  9. jumpers to set output voltage (9, 4.5 or 2=default) and ground connection


Juli@'s I2S interface is exceptionally good within a cMP² platform. The aim would be to have an analogue add-on PCB with performance rivaling "cost no object" DACs. (Of course at minimal cost including velvet packaging and white gloves).

 

RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on March 29, 2009 at 11:41:18
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 LOL on the velvet packaging & white gloves.

I'll take a look at that DAC later tonight. I will also take another look at the AK4399 that's used in the add-on DAC card I've got ordered to see if it also has the option to disable the internal filtering... that'd be trick!

My gut feel from adding linear supplies to my setup is that disconnecting the card from the computer's supplies will make a larger difference than anything else we can do. Alfred's comments also suggest this.

Also, given the output voltages available, a tube output stage may not be needed.

Thanks for getting the wheels turning on this.

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on March 29, 2009 at 11:44:29
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 P.S. cics, I have something else I wanted to discuss with you. Please email me via my profile.

Thanks!

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: More feedback on juli@ analogue out, posted on March 29, 2009 at 12:43:52
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 gotta buy one so unless absolutely necessary I won't (just bought a new hdd). If you feel I should I will though. you mean just for music files right? I won't have to reload windows again to set up a new os partition, I hope.


I have 13 processes while running: cicsplay; cicsremote;cmp; juliapan; svchost; lsass;services; winlogon (aka minlogon);crss; smss; system;system idle process. Which one is un-necessary?

 

RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on March 29, 2009 at 14:32:09
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 The little buffalo /sabre via I2S IMHO is as good and even better than every cost no object DAC i know.
The julia with 3,3 Volt from batteries and additional low ESR is another beast than the untweaked card, and the combination with the I2S/Buffalo
is in this moment the easiest way for my needs.
Why You want to do everthing in the PC?
Is Your aim a self developed DAC board ?

 

RE: Artist = PERFORMER as in header and not in TRACK details. nt, posted on March 30, 2009 at 01:59:52
sondale
Audiophile

Posts: 100
Location: Surrey
Joined: July 28, 2008
 Thanks, I am now editing all my Cue files as when I convert the FLAC files to WAV I got the naming the wrong way round - and I deleted the FLAC files.

 

Hooked dac1 back up, posted on March 30, 2009 at 07:07:31
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Tried running cplay (w/o cmp engaged) off of fd and it went metallic right away. Tried running off of fd with cmp engaged and 1st time it stuttered (had to reboot). After reboot it started but went metallic right away.

My conclusion is that at 160 hcc and eist disabled I'm getting the problem even on fd. Cpu related?

I upped clock back up to 165.

 

RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on March 30, 2009 at 08:33:00
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Three reasons:

  1. offers lowest DAC cost (say ±$200 without skimping on velvet and gloves). there's no need for XOs, casing, PSU, etc as Juli@ provides I2S interface and power can be sourced from main psu (with extra filtering on DAC's PCB) or preferably a battery option
  2. can fully exploit cMP² capabilities like no reconstruction filter in DAC
  3. elegance of having just one box


The buffalo / sabre DAC is a superb choice.

 

Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 30, 2009 at 08:44:40
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 I am considering building a cMP system, but am hesitant to do just a dedicated system. Is it possible and advisable to do a dual boot system using XP and Vista (or Windows 7)? Do the bios adjustments or something else make this impossible? If so what mother board and processor would you recommend? Could a mini-itx work? Thanks.

 

RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on March 30, 2009 at 09:40:50
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 to the first point:
if You put it in the same case and You want best quality for Julia and DAC you need a battery PS and my experience shows ,that You need at least 3 or 4 sealed batteries to provide lowESR and they don't fit in the case.

The I2s is a little problem because quality is decreasing quickly after 20cm length of the cables. My buffalo is direct behind the PC case , but it is not difficult to integrate it in the same case if you want.

Seconfd point i cannot comment; sounds interesting.
Elegance of one case : ok for the WAF, but for DIY-people free-wired open elektronics provide headroom for new developments .

 

thanks for letting me know about email problem - am trying to fix it. nt, posted on March 30, 2009 at 10:56:12
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 30, 2009 at 11:02:46
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Mini-ITX would definitely work (I have one) but BIOS options are very limited. Rather go with the recommended Gigabyte mobo (GA-G31M-S2C).

Seger runs a dual boot setup with Vista (and would also work with 7). If you plan to run a normal system and cMP, it would require manually setting BIOS between boots which is never a good idea.

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 30, 2009 at 12:38:33
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 cics wrote:

If you plan to run a normal system and cMP, it would require manually setting BIOS between boots which is never a good idea.

True, but given the Gigabyte motherboard's useful ability to store and quickly load different BIOS configurations, it would be viable at least as a trial if the longer-term intent was to acquire a dedicated machine.

Of course, you would need to remember to go into the BIOS every time you reset to change "mode". The system would also be sub-optimal for cMP2 with more memory than it needs and so on - but it would IMHO be better than not doing it at all.

Dave

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 30, 2009 at 14:59:44
seger
 My Vista partition is also a cMP setup, but mainly it's a slave to the other 2 XP partitions where I do my listening. Occasionally I check up on XXHE and wasapi players, but they lag behind. I wonder if you plan very heavy use of the non-cMP Vista system, and whether heat would become a problem, necessitating fans? If you do try it, it will be a test of the robustness of the BIOS saving/reloading functions of the motherboard - I use it a bit, but nothing like the way you would have to.

P.S. If you decide to try it, install XP first, then Vista. The other way around is a minor nightmare, requiring reconstruction of boot records.

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 31, 2009 at 03:31:27
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 I thought a dual boot would allow me to stay connected with advancements in Vista/Windows 7, like wasapi. Also if I understand cMP correctly I am stuck with a very simple interface. Since I am a classical fan with a large file library, JRiver is the only GUI I find acceptable. As far as I can tell cics does not recommend streaming to cMP from a computer with another interface. If that's correct I may have to skip it. Am I wrong about this?

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 31, 2009 at 03:44:21
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 Cics, part of my goal is to continue to use the JRiver interface. As I said above, if I understand cMP correctly I am stuck with a very simple interface. Since I am a classical fan with a large file library, JRiver is the only GUI I find acceptable. As far as I can tell you do not recommend streaming to cMP from another computer with another interface either wirelessly or via an Ethernet connection. Is that right? I did see an earlier post in which you said, in response to my question, that JRiver can be used, but I later read a post(by Dawnrazor?) that said cMP must use the cPlay interface and JRiver would only be used as a player. Am I confused? If I can use JRiver without cPlay, do I lose a lot of the benefit of cMP?

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 31, 2009 at 04:51:30
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 DBB wrote:

Since I am a classical fan with a large file library, JRiver is the only GUI I find acceptable.

I can't comment on the JRiver GUI but I can assure you that cPlay can be made to work pretty well with the largest of classical libraries and all the folders and sub-folders that these entail.

On my cMP2 box, I have music nested up to six folders deep on a three-disk JBOD array.

When an album has finished playing, you "quit" cPlay to select the next (equivalent to File > Open in a conventional player), highlight the album just played, click "Remove" then "Add", navigate to your next album and select it. Click "Select" and click again on the title and you're away.

Compared to, say, Foobar, it's two or maybe three extra clicks per selected album which, if each album lasts about an hour, is scarcely onerous and well worth tolerating given the superior SQ.

The chief snags with cPlay's GUI used to be:

a) the need to create cue sheets but this has been elegantly overcome with aljordan's "Recursive Cuesheet Creator" which now (as of this morning) works a treat with very large libraries;

b) the lack of a playlist facility. As I do not use playlists, this doesn't bother me but I seem to recall an inmate posting a method of creating them;

c) its ability to work with only one (small) display size. This is slightly irritating but will (hopefully . . .) change in the future.

In short, I think cPlay's GUI is quite a lot better than it's sometimes made out to be even though it was designed for different listening habits to mine (and, I suspect, yours).

So, while there's nothing to stop you using JRiver in a cMP box, by the same token having a large classical library does not stop you giving cPlay a shot either, especially as changing from one to the other is no big deal.

Hope that helps,

Dave

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 31, 2009 at 06:00:35
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 My scheme for classical uses more tags than most (or all?) players have except JRiver. Work, performing artists, composers etc. Some are custom. "artist" and "album" tags are not that useful to me. After months of tinkering, I have JRiver set up just the way I want it. I can't see switching at this point. Do you know if it works to use only JRiver with cMP? Hf so, how much do I give up by not using cPlay?

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 31, 2009 at 07:02:44
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 DBB wrote:

I can't see switching at this point. Do you know if it works to use only JRiver with cMP? If so, how much do I give up by not using cPlay?

If you install cMP, you will see in its program folder a file called cicsMemoryPlayer.pth. If you edit the second line of that file to point to the .exe of your chosen player, then cMP should launch it in preference to cPlay. That's all you need to do though, of course, there is always more on the ground than on the map. (It is known to work for Foobar.)

It is not necessary to perform all, or even any, of the optimisations recommended for a full cMP2 system to test whether cMP will drive your JRiver player.

Why not just install cMP into a computer on which you have JRiver installed, edit the *.pth file and try it? If it works (as I'm pretty sure it will), go on to perform as many or as few of the recommended optimisations as you wish.

JRiver is held in high regard by many and it would be rash to say if it will sound better than, poorer than or merely different to cPlay without a comparative trial. Give it a whirl.

The points I was trying to make were that a large classical library is not, in and of itself, an impediment to using cPlay (as implied) and that if all you want to do is to pick an album and, well, play it, it's fine.

If, for whatever reason, you use extensive bespoke tagging, I accept that that's a different matter.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on,

Dave

 

RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible?, posted on March 31, 2009 at 07:53:47
seger
 Ryelands has given good arguments for giving cMP a try. JRiver works fine, and its wasapi playback is one of the best - I found it slightly too lush for my taste and let the trial period end. Using it in cMP, you are looking at the JRiver GUI. If you want to open tags in JRiver, within cMP, I believe you can. Or tell us, what features you find absolutely necessary.

I kill cicsremote.exe when using non-cPlay players, and then have fairly good functionality. For memory playback you need to load music from the cMP library, not from within JRiver.

Setting up Vista cMP is a bit different - I posted some details a while ago, and if you decide to go ahead let me know and I'll try to find the link.

 

Listerning to juli@ analogue outs, posted on March 31, 2009 at 08:24:52
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 had to bump up hcc to 175 to avoid anomalies: stuttering, noise (static-y almost like a metallic overlay but goes away by re-indexing)

 

something else..., posted on March 31, 2009 at 11:00:06
seger
 I tried my JRiver trial on a fresh install, and I get another 30 days!

Bad news: multiple-file cuesheets don't work properly. Single file (CDImage) are fine. This seemed familiar, so I looked in my notes, and found that I had recorded the same thing when I last tried JRiver. I'm not expert with JRiver, so maybe someone else can pitch in if there's a plugin or a workaround. Since cMP depends on cuesheets, you would have to decide whether this is a limitation for you. Deal-breaker for me!

 

Thanks to seger, Ryelands, and cics . . ., posted on March 31, 2009 at 14:48:05
DBB
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Location: NYC, USA
Joined: November 11, 2004
 I am in the category of a person with only some basic computer knowledge. While I am not afraid to experiment, it sounds to me that, at least for now, it is too daunting a project to try to get cMP2 to work smoothly with JRiver, at least for me. The link below shows my custom scheme in JRiver. If I could not use it now in cMP2 I will have to wait. As you can see, it took a lot of work to set up. I could not navigate my music very well without it.

Lastly, I take it that streaming files to cMP from another computer where I would be running JRiver doesn't work or is not advisable.

 

RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on March 31, 2009 at 20:18:25
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 cics,

This idea of you has me very intrigued. I think there are several ways we could go on this...

1. Develop a new board using the PCM1794A that you mentioned above. I do like it's digital filter disable mode, but it does only do 24-bit.

2. Develop a new board using the AK4399 that I'm getting. It is another of the current 'superchips, most notably used in Alex Peychev's $30,000 NWO 3.0-GO modified Esoteric UW-1. It also has the digital filter disable mode, but it is a 32-bit chip... I'm not sure how much that matters, but it's good from a numbers perspective.

3. Develop an easy-to-implement mod of the ESS Sabre DAC, which has gotten a LOT of favorable press. What makes this an attractive option is the availability of Twisted Pear's ready-to-implement boards including an output IV stage. If the pricing for the new boards will be the similar to the last generation, this may be the most expensive of these options... but take the least development. This newest one is 32-bit AND also has the filter disable mode, so it remains a top contender. One good thing... the supporting I/V stage and power supply boards seem very highly developed.

4. A budget upgrade based on modifying the Juli@'s analog out, similar to what I did this last weekend. I don't yet know how good it will be, it hasn't fully run-in yet, but it's sounding very nice at three days in. Bass is especially well defined and strong, a significant jump over the stock card.

In the new-DAC world, I especially like the idea of dis-engaging the on-chip digital filter... I suspect there are significant gains available just doing that.

I am also expecting that it will be important to provide a separate power supply for best sound. As long as nothing goes too awry this next weekend, I hope to try that with the Juli@. I do have all the parts in-house now and started laying out the raw supplies last night. 4-6 hours of work on Saturday and it should be running. I'm also very interested to see how much of a difference it really makes in my setup where I start with the linear/hybrid supplies powering the computer. I still expect a significant bump, but it may not be as much as when separate digital-interface and DAC supplies are added to a computer SMPS-based setup.

Here's my version of your wish-list:

1. Phase I power mod to add additional filtering caps on the Juli@ digital board and on the DAC option chosen. Phase II power mods going to separate supplies for the digital And , either a linear or battery.

2. Phase I DAC mod to upgrade the Juli@. Phase I to implement one of the three DACs above (or any new contenders that emerge).

3. Output stage may have several options to choose from. The Twisted Pear setups offer nice turn-key stages. I do like the idea of a nice tube stage. I also like the idea of your multiple output voltage choices.

4. Location inside the computer case to minimize the I2S line length. Packaging to minimize RF and EMI interference would be important, such as your faraday cage. Mounting the I2S connections directly on the Juli@, maybe the entire DAC board, would be trick.

5. Balanced out via Neutric or Hicon XLR connectors. Un-balanced out also available.

If we want to investigate the PCM1794A or AK4399 options, it's probably worth getting a couple of the evaluation boards on-order.

One thought I have is that this is more of a DIYAudio-type of thread than most of the ones I see on the Asylum (except for the Tube DIY forum here). So I've started a thread for cMP2 mods there:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1788543#post1788543

I don't know if you've seen it there, but Peter Daniel has posted a bit about his version of an AOB and later a cMP2 in the last few pages of his AudioSector-chip amp kits, dacs, chassis thread:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1788548#post1788548

It was his implementation that was half of the inspiration to go to the linear/hybrid supplies... and the other half goes to the Asylum's Ryeland for his linear P4 power supply.

I invite consideration of moving that thread there, I suspect that the DIY nature of that board will get us more input than we'll see here.

My recent 2 cents.

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on March 31, 2009 at 22:54:45
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 Greg,

interesting thoughts!

Just a brief correcting remark on the ESS Sabre for now: The current version is the ESS Sabre32, it is 32 bit (not 24) and the deemphasis and FIR filters both can be disabled.

Regards
Robert

 

add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one., posted on April 1, 2009 at 03:57:34
hfavandepas
 Yesterday I added ‘/nopae’ to the boot.ini file
It made a significant (!) improvement in SQ.
The improvement in SQ is in the same range as putting the extra caps on the Antec Earthwatts 430 mobo power supply leads P4 and P20/24.

Since I overlooked Cics posting on the adding of ‘nopae’ too the boot.ini file and since there also weren’t any reply’s on that post, I guess many others will also have overlooked it either.

This brings me too a contribution I could do to this project. Although I have a degree in engineering, I don’t have any knowledge of IT, electronics, PC’s and software. So I can’t make a any contributions in these area’s, but I could make a contribution in the information / manual area.

I could update Cics manuals and information on the AOB computertransport, cMP and Cplay. Since the project already runs for 2 years the information has scattered over many forumposts. That’s how I missed the /nopea information.

So Cics if you think it’s a good contribution to the project too update the information in your manuals please e-mail me.

My job can be very bussy at times, so I can’t comply too real hard deadlines. But I think it would be nice if al relevant information which is now somewhat scattered in the forum, is put together once again in a new updated manual. This way I’m not only taking from this project, but I i'm also bringing too this nice project.

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one., posted on April 1, 2009 at 04:21:11
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 cics added but then took away this nopae recommendation for other technical reasons.

 

better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one., posted on April 1, 2009 at 04:50:18
hfavandepas
 Hi Theo,

This is exactly why I offered Cics too collect and update the scattered information on this project.

First there was this post on 2008-08-29:
Don't use "/nopae" optimisation (5.25) Posted by cics on 2008-08-29, 10:16:42

But 1,5 weeks later there was this one on 2008-09-08:
Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (3.48)
Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described.

So I think many missed this post, because I see very few reply’s on this post.
That’s very strange because the difference in sound is significant.
I expected at least so see discussions on whether it is an improvement or an dis-improvement. But not even that. Nothing. No comments on SQ.
While all other (very little) tweaks are extensively discussed,
hardly anyone discusses this one on SQ.
But changes in sound (in my setup) are significant.
Sow I thought this post must be overlooked by many.

Too make a statement: in my setup it sounds not different, I think it sounds beter.
In what way beter? In the same way better, as the extra caps did on the Antec 430.

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one., posted on April 1, 2009 at 05:48:49
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 what can I say, I tried it, it does sound better. thank you.

 

Hope others wil try it too ! RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one., posted on April 1, 2009 at 06:01:34
hfavandepas
 Hi Theo,

Thank you for trying and your feedback.

I hope others wil try it too and give there feedback on this kernel optimasation.

Thankx
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

Installed new hdd, reinstalled old one on which I have ..., posted on April 1, 2009 at 06:02:19
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ... clonegenius. So I copied to my new c partition but it doesn't run. How do I get it to run?

I should mention I reloaded windows on new hdd/did all windows optimizations through autoruns, minlogon. I kept old hdd out of system then reinstalled today to get clone genius from old os into new os. but it doesn't work. any of you clonegenius experts pls comment.

 

RE: Listerning to juli@ analogue outs..back to hcc @ 150, posted on April 1, 2009 at 06:28:49
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 after I implemented nopae and checked services each time I reboot to get back to only 2 services. I have to say the sound is very, very good. Cics yes this is a great foundation to build on.

The mids, highs are absolutely best I have heard in my sys. If I lost any soundstage, bass to the dac1 I pick it back up with nopae.

While I love the sound I'm bordering on instability. I get the fuzzies almost metallics when cplay swithches tracks or reloads in a track. But I re-index it manually and its ok. I hate to keep asking but doesn't it sound like borderline processor performance? I know you said it probably isn't but there's not much left in my pc to suspect as root cause of my issue. (Follow up: Running music files off flash drive fixes this noise issue for awhile, but had to go back up to 155 hcc.)

But bravo on new spec!!

As you can see I think my sys is right at the borderline of stability (or at least this crazy noise I now get in the juli@ analogue out mode).

 

RE: Juli@ PSU highlights, posted on April 1, 2009 at 07:32:47
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 alfred you are one of the juli@ ps modifier leaders. I applaud you on your great work. I have a 5 volt battery (rechargeable) that I formerly used on a usb extender. Question do you think if I de-soldered the 5 volt feed from the pc (on juli@ card) and hooked up this battery the U1 regulator would work to provide 3.3 volts? I used the battery for an opticis usb optical cable.

Is there an english version description of your regulator. It looks very robust but I cannot read German (although my kids can).

 

RE: Juli@ PSU highlights, posted on April 1, 2009 at 08:23:05
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 hi theob,
The optimal specs of the U1 regulator:
MT1117-3.3, 4.3V ≤ VIN ≤ 5.5V ( Max Voltage not more than 6 Volt)
So it works perfect in this reach,
For the reason of low ESR i prefer 3 to 4 batteries parallel to reach the max. SQ , but one works too.

be careful , the MT1117 is very sensitive for to much heat during soldering

 

RE: Juli@ PSU highlights, posted on April 1, 2009 at 08:31:51
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ok good advice I am not an expert solderer so I'll hold off untill I can find a good solderer. Should I unsolder the ground to run to the battery?

 

RE: Juli@ PSU highlights, posted on April 1, 2009 at 08:38:47
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 You can solder the ground of the batterie direct to the ground pin, the pin can stay on board.

 

RE: Juli@ PSU highlights, posted on April 1, 2009 at 08:52:51
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 thanks

 

Going to retest "/nopae", posted on April 1, 2009 at 11:31:50
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 My interest in using "/nopae" was to force the kernel into 32 bit addressing (and not 36+), i.e. less address lines. There were some issues I had but will retest.

New documentation is planned and I will get to it once cPlay 2.0 is finalised. It's looking very good with the help of other inmates. Will be great if you could assist in proof reading the material.

 

From the screen shot, you can improve SQ significantly!, posted on April 1, 2009 at 11:41:25
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 cMP² is not an all or nothing proposition. In fact you can do all the hw, BIOS and windows changes without running cMP or cPlay. Nor do you need to have the exact same hw specs (dawnrazor uses completely different hw).

From the screen you've provided, you have some nasties:

  1. McCafee Virus protection
  2. Windows Messenger
  3. Hires Video settings


This is just the few things I can see. Your Lynx card is capable of delivering more. I suggest doing some of the Windows optimisations as per the documentation and test.

 

hate to be a pia to you cics but..., posted on April 1, 2009 at 11:46:33
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ... the tics, drop outs, metallics, fuzzies got so bad today I could not listen to cplay 20 so I loaded cplay 18 back in. Not a tic, drop out, no fuzzies, no anamolies.

Its interesting because I get about the same cpu usage as cplay 20 and 18 is not as good sonically but something about my machine does not allow cplay 20 to play w/o problems.

Does this make any sense to you?

 

Cics is right, posted on April 1, 2009 at 11:53:08
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 You don't have to do it 100%.

Hell, I am raving about the improvements and don't even have the granite psus in yet (they should be here today).

I would do as much as you are comfy with and then maybe a bit more. If you HAVE to use Jriver then do so.

It might not be a full implementation as in my case with the hardware i am running, but the whole point is to get the most out of what you have. That is what I did and well man it is a whole different system.



 

Please state conditions for using nopae, posted on April 1, 2009 at 12:11:35
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I cannot find the update post that mentions \nopae. Could you please clarify what the circumstances are in which to use this.

 

Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 1, 2009 at 12:12:10
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ...... the tics, drop outs, metallics, fuzzies got so bad today I could not listen to cplay 20(through juli@ analague outs) so I loaded cplay 18 back in. Not a tic, drop out, no fuzzies, no anamolies. I put it back to 150 host clock control: it boots, it plays great.

Its interesting because I get about the same cpu usage as cplay 20 and 18 is not as good sonically but something about my machine does not allow cplay 20 to play w/o problems.

Does this make any sense to you?

 

RE: Going to retest "/nopae", posted on April 1, 2009 at 12:44:31
hfavandepas
 Hi Cics,

Thankx for reply. So my offer in helping too update the manual is already done by other inmates. I would be glad to do some proof ready. Let me know.

About the ‘/nopae’ swith voor the kernel.
This information from microsoft confused me.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791539.aspx
It says:
“On Windows XP with SP2, when you disable DEP by using /noexecute=alwaysoff, Windows disables both DEP and PAE. This is the equivalent of using /noexecute=alwaysoff /nopae. “

Since /noexecute=alwaysoff is already in the cMP2 boot.ini file, the extra addition of ‘/nopae’ shouldn’t be necessary.

But I added '/nopae' anyhow.
I was surprised by the significant change in sound.
The difference perceived by me, is definitely not a ‘placebo-effect’ that is fooling me.
The difference in sound is just too big/significant for that.
I also label the difference as being: better.

Since the Microsoft information is confusimg, I searched for other inmates who really tried it. But it looks like Theob is the only one who really tried it.

What your opinion on the change in sound?
Do you label it as being beter ?

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Please state conditions for using nopae, posted on April 1, 2009 at 12:56:53
hfavandepas
 Search for ‘nopae’ with the search function, and you wil find this post:

Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (9.89)
Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described. .......

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=36517&highlight=nopae&r=

From here you go too:
cMP update:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/36343.html
Here you find the context described.

This is why I offered Cics toe help rewriting the documentation.
I think is have become too much scattered during time in al kinds of posts.

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Please state conditions for using nopae, posted on April 1, 2009 at 16:07:27
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I had seen those already, but it remains unclear. There is no mention of nopae in the Update. The update describes a system with Gigabyte mb, a specific E7200 cpu, and many settings including to turn Eist on in the bios (which someone reported was needed for /nopae to be helpful). Is the context the mb and cpu or is it also each and every instruction in the update or only some of them? It remains unclear if all these are necessary and on what basis all other mb's and cpus are ruled out. Couldn't it be that other combinations would benefit from /nopae, especially if they allow turning Eist on?

Writing a manual that makes things truly clear is not an easy thing. I can help if you like.

 

RE: Juli@ Follies..., posted on April 1, 2009 at 18:13:18
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Quick update...

First, as the parts run-in, the modified card is sounding better and better. Especially impressive last night was the bass, dynamics, improved ability to maintain composure when the sound got complex, and naturalness of the treble. I didn't do a comparison with the stock Juli@ at that time, but...

Second, I did do a very quick and dirty comparison Monday night. This was mainly because I took out the modified Juli@ to change the mod a bit... I replaced the Oscons before the 3.3v regulator with 1000uf Black Gates... and replaced the 1000uf Black Gate after that regulator with an Oscon. Theoretically, this is a better configuration... and bass was improved immediately, but I didn't notice any other differences at that time.

Third, inspired by Alfred's post locating an insert-point for 3.3v on the digital card, I spent some time finding and I'll be updating my Juli@ info post above with other insertion points to make adding separate supplies to the cards a bit easier.

Then finally, I'm moving in the direction of adding those supplies this weekend. I have all the parts in-house now. I've been down with a cold the last couple of days, but if I feel better tomorrow evening, I'll start assembling the raw DC side of the beast.

Based on Promethk's & Alfred's comments, I have very high hopes for this... although I wonder if I'll see a smaller SQ lift than others sinced I'm starting with linear & linear/hybrid supplies on the computer.

Later!

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB, posted on April 1, 2009 at 18:27:10
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Robert,

That's good to know and I updated my post above.

Honestly, if Twisted Pear had not be out of the Buffalo DAC at the time I'd decided which one to order, I'd probably have one of them now instead of waiting for the AK4399 DAC board. I don't feel bad going with the AK4399, but I liked the maturity of their design.

Two questions I have for the group...

One, you mention that the deemphasis is defeatable. One question I have is what happens with emphasised CDs? I happen to know (because I once made a CDP based on a CDP650 that had a demph-on LED) that a few of my CDs are emphasized. Will they play wrong. It's not like I stay awake at night worrying about this, but I am curious.

Second, does anyone have any tips on programming these things. It looks like the AK4399 will need programming to set the filter bypass on... and I wouldn't be suprised if the others didn't too. I suspect that the info on how to do this is in the ESS Sabre DAC thread on DIYAudio, but I haven't taken the time to look yet.

Again, thanks!

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 1, 2009 at 20:04:28
GStew
Audiophile

Posts: 633
Location: NE Mississippi
Joined: September 21, 2001
 Theob,

I wonder if we've been going at this the wrong way. Since noone else is reporting a similar problem (some have reported similar issues that have appeared sporatically, but noone has reported as consistent of an issue as you), there must be something unique with your setup that that is causing the issue.

I think that replacing different pieces of hardware was a good way to attack the issue initially, but you have very little to replace at this point.

I have gotten the impression that you have done some things differently than a stock mainstream cMP2/cPLAY setup. Can you describe your hardware & software setup in toto, including a few pictures of your setup.

This will let us brainstorm and attack this from a different direction.

Thanks!

Greg in Mississippi

 

RE: Going to retest "/nopae", posted on April 2, 2009 at 03:10:22
monaco
Audiophile

Posts: 30
Joined: August 1, 2008
Hi cics / hfavandepas

I have just added '/nopae' to my limited cMP2 rig and have achieved similar sonic results (more 3dimensional image and solid bass).

My old laptop rig consists of the following:
CPU Intel Celeron 650MHz (SSE instruction set)
RAM 192MB (max)
XP Pro SP1
cMP 1.2
cPlay 2.04 (due to my limited RAM)

regards
monaco

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 2, 2009 at 03:15:56
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000



1st pic shows audio pc case in foreground, home pc in background. Notice hammond inductor on top of home pc, granite digital leads going into audio pc on right/left of case.

Hw: an intel e7200, kingston 256mb ram, western digital 3.5" hdd's(one 250 gb one 500 gb), gigabyte mobo (one recommended by cics, forgot # but see below in cpuz output), 2 juli@ stock cards (one set up to run bnc out to my Benchmark dac1 and one to run analogue outs), Antec 430 earthwatts power supply with p24 cap mod.

Sw: all optimizations on my xp pro Windows sp2 through minlogon. There were a few optimizations I could not do (selections not available in my Windows or optimization caused bsod) but very few. I use f6x software on gigabyte BIOS.

bios set up: 150 hcc, memory 3 3 3 5 timings; .86 core voltage, eist disabled, usb 2.0 enabled (so I can dl music on fd and transfer to my audio pc hdd)here is a partial dump of my cpuz registers

CPU-Z version 1.49
-------------------------

Processors Map
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of processors 1
Number of threads 2

Processor 0
-- Core 0
-- Thread 0
-- Core 1
-- Thread 0


Processors Information
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Processor 1 (ID = 0)
Number of cores 2 (max 2)
Number of threads 2 (max 2)
Name Intel Core 2 Duo E7200
Codename Wolfdale
Specification Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7200 @ 2.53GHz
Package Socket 775 LGA (platform ID = 0h)
CPUID 6.7.6
Extended CPUID 6.17
Core Stepping M0
Technology 45 nm
Core Speed 900.0 MHz (6.0 x 150.0 MHz)
Rated Bus speed 600.0 MHz
Stock frequency 2533 MHz
Instructions sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, EM64T
L1 Data cache 2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 3072 KBytes, 12-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
FID range 6.0x - 9.5x
max VID 1.013 V
Features

Chipset
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northbridge Intel P35/G33/G31 rev. 10
Southbridge Intel 82801GB (ICH7/R) rev. A1
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 256 MBytes
Channels Single
Memory Frequency 150.0 MHz (1:1)
CAS# 3.0
RAS# to CAS# 3
RAS# Precharge 3
Cycle Time (tRAS) 5
Command Rate 2T


Memory SPD
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMM #1

General
Memory type DDR2
Module format Regular UDIMM
Manufacturer (ID) Kingston (7F98000000000000)
Size 256 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2-4300 (266 MHz)
Part number 9905273-003.B02LF
Serial number B6CC224D
Manufacturing date Week 02/Year 09

Attributes
Number of banks 1
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
EPP no
XMP no

Timings table
Frequency (MHz) 200 266
CAS# 3.0 4.0
RAS# to CAS# delay 3 4
RAS# Precharge 3 4
TRAS 9 12
TRC 12 16


Monitoring
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mainboard Model G31M-S2L (0x1F6 - 0x9CE9BC)


Hardware monitor
-----------------------------------------------------

ITE IT87 hardware monitor

Voltage sensor 0 0.85 Volts [0x35] (CPU VCORE)
Voltage sensor 1 1.87 Volts [0x75] (DDR)
Voltage sensor 2 3.36 Volts [0xD2] (+3.3V)
Voltage sensor 3 4.89 Volts [0xB6] (+5V)
Voltage sensor 4 12.29 Volts [0xC0] (+12V) [ this is really 11.82 volts as measured by my vom ]
Voltage sensor 8 3.25 Volts [0xCB] (VBAT)
Temperature sensor 2 26°C (78°F) [0x1A] (CPU)
Fan sensor 0 943 RPM [0x2CC] (FANIN0)


Hardware monitor
-----------------------------------------------------

Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 hardware monitor

Temperature sensor 0 45°C (112°F) [0x37] (Core #0)
Temperature sensor 1 35°C (94°F) [0x41] (Core #1)


Also I have my processor and ps fans still operating. (this is a major difference from others)

Also your assertion that others are not affected is not true. Others are but I will not id them as it appears they want anonymity on AA but they have contacted me.

One other point is that I get no problems with cplay 18 or 14 and below. Problem started ocurring with cplay 15 (not saying it is cplay sw but something with certain versions of cplay and my audio pc are not compatible). I think the feature unique to these cplay versions are '...More efficient ASIO output...' achieved or '...improved Asio efficiciency...' etc. I have been playing cplay 18 (via digital out to my dac1 )for about 8 straight hours not even a blip. Yesterday was the worst day ever experienced(lots of power line noise) for hiccups, dropouts, fuzzy metallic noise over analogue outs which prompted me to go back to cplay 18.

Things suspected but ruled out by tests or hw replacement are: juli@ drivers, juli@ cards, power supplies, memory, granite digitals, Windows software, power conditioners, power cords, mains outlets in my room, music on flash drive (vs hdd).

 

why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae, posted on April 2, 2009 at 03:57:10
hfavandepas
 Hi Riboge,

Thankx for your response.
Why not just try it? And let your ears decide.

I agry it’s unclear.
But in The Netherlands (where I live) we have a saying: ‘Proberen gaat boven studeren’.
Which means something like: ‘trying goes above (endless) studying’
And that’s what I did: I just tried it.
Risks of trying are low.
What worse things could happen if you try ?

Adding /nopea gave a significant difference in sound.
( /noexecute=alwaysoff /fastdetect /nopea /timeres=9800 /nodebug /pcilock /3GB )
I use the word ‘different’, because different isn’t always ‘beter’.

But to my ears it is significantly beter.
In what way beter?
In the same category of ‘beter’ than the ‘cap-mod’ on the P4-powerline and the P20/24 powerlines from the PSU to the mobo I did last weekend.
(with cheap caps, no expensive ‘audiophile’ caps)

I know sometimes it can be difficult to decide if a difference is also ‘better’
And also if one isn’t fooled by ‘the placebo-effect’
But what other options are there than just to try?

So let me know what your ears are telling you.
:-)

(system: mobo Gigabyte: ga-g31m-s2l bios: F9 Processor: intel E7200 RAM: 2 x 1Gb ram Kingston low latency KHX6400D2LL/1G1GB 800MHz DDR2 Non-ECC CL4.
I don’t use the EIST function with corresponding XP power-settings, since I can’t hear any sound differences when its ‘on’ or ‘off’. But I do see an extra 1 or 2 µs latency in dpclat when EIST + XP powersettings are enabled. So for the time being it stay’s off)

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Thanks to seger, Ryelands, and cics . . ., posted on April 2, 2009 at 04:05:57
seger
 You are getting some good advice here - now this compromise occurred to me and you might like to try it:

Use JRiver in Vista without cMP in one partition so you can use wasapi playback, and set up cMP on a separate partition with XP. In the Vista system, you can set up batch files, devised by cics, to run JRiver and shut down explorer at the same time automatically. I was doing this with Winamp before cMP came along, and found that the sound quality was improved, about at the same level as the "XP-mode" of cMP. I've taken the liberty of adapting the .bat files for J River and copying them as text below. You could try this on your current computer first.

1. download process203 from http://www.beyondlogic.org/consulting/processutil/processutil.htm Unzip into your system directory (e.g. C:\)
2. make a new text document in the same directory and copy the first set of instructions (below)into it. Save the file as "MC13.bat"
3. make another new text document on your desktop and copy the second set of instructions into it. Save it as "JRiverMC13.bat"
4. Double-clicking on the "JRiverMC13.bat" file on your desktop runs Media Center and shuts down Explorer - when you close Media Center, the desktop reappears. You can prepare your playlist in advance by opening Media Center normally, drag & drop files, close, and then run the .bat file.

I just used these files on a Vista system and it worked properly. Good luck! Take this as a tiny initiation into the trials of cMP implementation!

Note: the root directory (e.g. C:\) must be correct in the instructions - if your system directory is different, such as E:\ or another letter, then first edit the instructions - all instances of C: would have to change to E:

You should also do as much optimization of the operating system as possible, and in particular:
a. Detune Windows Explorer UI.
Control Panel > Folder Options > View TAB > Uncheck as many items as you can. In Vista I would keep "Hide protected operating system files", "Remember each folders view settings", "Show drive letters", "Use Sharing Wizard"
b. Right-click on Start > Properties > Start Menu TAB > Customize >
Advanced TAB > Uncheck and Disable as many 'Start menu items' as you can do without - keep Run, Control Panel and My Computer, unless you have desktop shortcuts for them.


MC13.bat instructions:

@echo off
rem #1 Start Media Center 13 in RealTime
start /wait /RealTime c:\progra~1\"J River"\"Media Center 13"\"Media Center 13.exe"
rem #2 Resume Windows, Restore affinities & priorities, and Start UI
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r winlogon.exe
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r smss.exe
rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r hdsp32.exe
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p smss.exe AboveNormal
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p winlogon.exe High
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p system Normal
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p csrss.exe High
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p services.exe Normal
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p svchost.exe Normal
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p lsass.exe Normal
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a smss.exe 11
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a winlogon.exe 11
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a system 11
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a csrss.exe 11
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a services.exe 11
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a svchost.exe 11
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a lsass.exe 11
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a cmd.exe 11
start /b c:\windows\explorer.exe
exit


JRiverMC13.bat instructions:

@echo off
rem #1 Kill UI
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k explorer.exe
rem #2 Suspend Windows
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p smss.exe Low
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p winlogon.exe Low
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a smss.exe 01
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a winlogon.exe 01
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s smss.exe
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s winlogon.exe
rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s hdsp32.exe
rem #3 Start Media Center 13
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a cmd.exe 01
start /Low /min c:\MC13.bat
rem #4 Adjust priorities, eg. High, RealTime, AboveNormal, BelowNormal, Low;
rem # and Set Affinities
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p system Normal
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p csrss.exe Low
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p services.exe Low
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p svchost.exe Low
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p lsass.exe Low
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a system 10
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a csrss.exe 11
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a services.exe 10
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a svchost.exe 01
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a lsass.exe 01
start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a Media Center 13.exe 11
rem #5 Start Task Manager (remove ‘rem ’ prefix of next 2 lines) or Process Explorer
rem start /b c:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exe
rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p taskmgr.exe Normal
rem start /b c:\progra~1\proces~1\procexp.exe /p:n
exit

 

Thankx for trying and feedback Hope others wil try to. RE: Going to retest "/nopae", posted on April 2, 2009 at 04:23:18
hfavandepas
 Hi Monaco,

Thank you for trying and feedback.


ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 2, 2009 at 06:49:25
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000



2nd pic shows open audio pc. notice p24 mod on perf board on bottom of case. If you look carefully you'll see juli@ digital sound card with alfred's mod for taking digital out from juli@ circuit board thereby bypassing breakout cable. also it looks like cpu fan is not running but it is (fast lens shot)

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 2, 2009 at 06:55:47
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000



Pic 3 notice plumbers non conductive seal compound (gooing almost claylike) holding battery in place (had to reboot by taking battery out several times and it loosened the prongs holding battery. notice also closer look @ juli@. Fan also looks like it is off but it's not. Fast lens setting shot

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 2, 2009 at 07:01:00
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000



next pic shows overall environment for audio/home pc. notice Power cord to audio pc KimberKable Palladium. Also cmp display is an old fashioned crt left over from years ago (hey it was free!)

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 2, 2009 at 07:07:12
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000



last pic is of Benchmark Dac1 sitting behind my home pc display

 

Key is to keep Juli@'s digital section that way we keep the excellent ASIO drivers, posted on April 2, 2009 at 08:07:07
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Juli@'s ASIO drivers remains the best I've seen to date.

New analogue board plugs onto this using I2S interface which I assume will support 24 bit DACs only (a deal breaker for 32 bit DACs). Alfred uses this interface for the Buffalo / Sabre DAC. Alfred: can you confirm 32 interface?

I'm not religious about 24 or 32 bit: important factors are SNR and the ability to bypass internal reconstruction filter. My AA Prestige SE uses the PCM1792 DAC which is excellent. Both AKM and ESS Sabre are excellent 32 bit DACs and yes the Sabre would be a brilliant choice (even better than 1794) given that we can disable its filter and includes IV stage & PS refinements.

So lets go with the Sabre and add RCA outs as well.

Will look into Peter Daniels' work as well. DIY thread is a great start (PS - my loyalties lie with AA).

 

Your edit seems to be a caveat, posted on April 2, 2009 at 09:55:59
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 I have now tried it with my Lenovo thinkpad. It may be a slight improvement or the same, hard to be sure, certainly not worse.

My point was your edit about 'only in this context' implies a danger in doing it in a different one, e.g., mine. Perhaps it should say it is only known to help with these components and it is unknown whether there are problems with others.

 

RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat, posted on April 2, 2009 at 10:24:47
hfavandepas
 ‘Caveat’ ??? Hmm wonder what that means…..
I’m not a native English speaker. So you got me googl-ing on ‘caveat’
Now I understand what you mean.

The following piece of text was not mine. It’s the search-result of ‘nopae’. It’s Cics text.
If you do a search by yourself on ‘nopae’ you will see:

Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (9.89)
Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described. .......

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Juli@ PSU highlights, posted on April 2, 2009 at 11:41:28
clare t
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: April 2, 2009
 Hi Alfred,

What cables are you using for the I2S connections? Did you DIY an I2S connector for the Juli@ or simply soldered them to the pins?

Thank you!

 

RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat, posted on April 2, 2009 at 12:14:37
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Sorry, I guess I was even more confused than I realized. I read your post to mean you made the edit. I guess my comment was meant for cics. And I still haven't gotten over studying Latin in school. Caveat is Latin for Beware or Be Warned. Anyway, you got me to try nopae, so something good came of it.

 

:-) No problem. At least you tried /nopae !, posted on April 2, 2009 at 12:30:27
hfavandepas
 Hi Riboge,

No problem, can happen.
At least you tried /nopae

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae, posted on April 2, 2009 at 12:55:59
clare t
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: April 2, 2009
 Thank you for bringing up the /nopae optimization. The SQ improvement is indeed too significant to be dismiss as a placebo. Soundstaging improved noticeably, and bass seems more defined.

 

Cics brought it up. Thankx for trying /nopae and your feedback !, posted on April 2, 2009 at 13:35:19
hfavandepas
 Hi Clare t,

Cics brought it up. Not me. The honor goes too Cics.
But as Cics wasn’t sure about it, probably nobody really tried it.
There was hardly any response too Cics /nopae post.

But in my setup I think it’s better (not just different).

Thankx for trying and feedback.
Hope others will try it too and post there feed back

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

I meant thanks for bringing it to our attention, I wasn't even aware of its existence in the thread! nt., posted on April 2, 2009 at 13:42:19
clare t
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: April 2, 2009
 .

 

WATCH OUT for typo in parameter string..., posted on April 2, 2009 at 20:51:24
gjwAudio
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Location: Toronto
Joined: March 11, 2006
 Hi hfavandepas

Great topic - The Lost Tweak !!

I mean no disrespect to anyone here, just a little pointer to my fellow cMP Comrades... Don't Be Lazy and cut-n-paste the entire parameter string from this post into your BOOT.INI file (...like I did).

You'll find the switch-in-question suffers a typo - "/nopEA" should be "/nopAE" (my uppercase, to indicate the trouble).

"Caveat" indeed !

Cheers,
Grant

That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!

 

sh..... The typo (/nopea) was in my boot.ini ! Confusion complete, posted on April 3, 2009 at 00:40:21
hfavandepas
 Hi Grant,

It's even more confusing too me now....

I ran to my cMP PC to see if the typo (/nopea) was in the boot.ini
And it was !!
:-(

Like I mentioned earlier in a post too Cics:
Microsoft writes about /nopae:
“On Windows XP with SP2, , when you disable DEP by using /noexecute=alwaysoff, Windows disables both DEP and PAE. This is the equivalent of using /noexecute=alwaysoff /nopae.â€Â
See: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791539.aspx


But what is happening in my PC, with this typo (/nopea) in my boot.ini ?
I definitely hear a significant difference in sound quality (better too my ears)
Does the typo disable ‘alwaysoff’?

I’m always very much aware of the possibility of the placebo-effect.
That’s why I always ask others to try too.

For now let’s wait what Cics has too say






ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

Microsoft helpfiles are confusing too. So keep try-ing, posted on April 3, 2009 at 02:55:10
hfavandepas
 Still being somewhat ashamed (understatement) because of the typo i made (/nopea),
I again looked up the microsoft help-pages. These pages make the confusion complete
(links see below)

So just keep try-ing and give feedback on what your ears are telling you.
(though keep in mind the possibility of a placebo-effect)

Links to MS help pages:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/900524 says:
Disable PAE mode in Windows XP with SP2 and later versions of Windows XP
Add the following switches to the Windows XP Boot.ini file:
/noexecute=alwaysoff /NOPAE
For example, the Boot.ini file may appear as follows:
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP" /fastdetect /noexecute=alwaysoff /NOPAE

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791539.aspx says:
DEP and PAE
On Windows XP with SP2, , when you disable DEP by using /noexecute=alwaysoff, Windows disables both DEP and PAE. This is the equivalent of using /noexecute=alwaysoff /nopae.

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

 

RE: Key is to keep Juli@'s digital section that way we keep the excellent ASIO drivers, posted on April 3, 2009 at 05:17:23
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 Regarding Juli@ i2s out and ESS Sabre32:

Not sure wether Juli@ i2s out will work with ESS Sabre32 "as is" right away, will have to test. If it doesn't, this can likely be fixed by choosing a different PCM audio interface format - ESS Sabre32's default is 32-bit but can be set to 24-bit by programming the registers.

 

RE: how to use foobar with cMP, posted on April 3, 2009 at 09:00:01
audiogremlin
Audiophile

Posts: 292
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 10, 2006
 I'm having no luck with cPlay. Can someone tell me how I can get cMP to work with Foobar?

Thanks in advance.

 

RE: how to use foobar with cMP, posted on April 3, 2009 at 09:14:16
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 There is a file in cMP's program folder called cicsMemoryPlayer.pth

Edit the second line to read:

CUE_PLAYER #N "C:\Program Files\foobar2000\foobar2000.exe" %C

(or as appropriate).

Dave

 

If you can now be sure it is not the DAC ..., posted on April 3, 2009 at 09:31:13
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 It must be the MB.

Have you ever replaced your MB?

My gut instinct is a failing southbridge.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: how to use foobar with cMP, posted on April 3, 2009 at 09:56:49
audiogremlin
Audiophile

Posts: 292
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 10, 2006
 Thanks very much.
One other question...I know cMP is built to work with cPlay but do you know if there is much sonic difference if I use Foobar with cMP? Is this worth doing since I can't get cPlay to work with all the files I want to use?

 

RE: how to use foobar with cMP, posted on April 3, 2009 at 10:06:11
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 audiogremlin wrote:

Do you know if there is much sonic difference if I use Foobar with cMP?

The consensus seems to be that there is. FWIW, I agree.

However, as it takes about 30 seconds to get Foobar to work with cMP, why not do that until you sort out your problem with cPlay? Then you re-edit the .pth file and . . . well, you get the idea.

As you'll see from my reply to your other post, cPlay handles files sourced (in extremis) from MP3 data just fine.

Dave

 

I would 2nd that, posted on April 3, 2009 at 10:19:15
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Nice pictures Theob.

 

Definitely keep the /nopae option, posted on April 3, 2009 at 10:25:56
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Thanks for discovering this again.

I suspect /nopea & /nopae has /nop in common (and its unique) and that's why you got same results - just an educated guess as I don't think there's a sophisticated parser at work.

/nopae works - initial few hours (at least 48 hours), HF is more forward but this settles down. A lot has changed since I last tested this.

 

Need to confirm 32 bit I2S interface and ability to disable filter, posted on April 3, 2009 at 10:28:54
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Documentation is light and so far, my readings suggest Sabre 2008 allows for disabling "Demphasis" only. Can't get any info on Sabre 2018.

 

RE: I would 2nd that, posted on April 3, 2009 at 10:41:51
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 ok gotta find one now

 

RE: Need to confirm 32 bit I2S interface and ability to disable filter, posted on April 3, 2009 at 10:47:23
Bertel
Audiophile

Posts: 83
Joined: February 12, 2009
 32 bit i2s and filter disable confirmed

 

Correct parameter makes POSITIVE Difference..., posted on April 3, 2009 at 11:31:11
gjwAudio
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Location: Toronto
Joined: March 11, 2006
 Hi hfavandepas

Thanks for stirring up attention to this adjustment - in my setup, it makes the sound "better"... and that's another little step forward for the cMP Miracle.

As to what the MS documentation says... maybe the guy who wrote the doc hasn't talked to the guy who wrote the code... cause there's no placebo going on in my room - the change is real... and really welcome !

It's like getting new cPlay update from cics... just a little bit better every time.

Happy Listening All !
Cheers,
Grant

That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!

 

RE: If you can now be sure it is not the DAC ..., posted on April 3, 2009 at 11:55:39
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 great suggestion. are you suggesting the traffic between ram and cpu (presumably directed by southbridge) is amiss? make sense for my data. but why does my pc work with cplay 2.0 b18 but not 2.0 b19 or b20?

 

Got cPlay to play 192 via firewire with Asio4All but not cMP2, posted on April 3, 2009 at 11:55:56
riboge
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: June 25, 2008
 Starting from cMP in xp mode selecting a cuesheet opens cPlay with "Asio" in the bottom left which in a few seconds changes to "Media" but hangs there and one must restart the computer.

 

A mystery unless ..., posted on April 3, 2009 at 12:18:02
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 it has something to do with, I am surmising, how cPLAY instructs the hardware. But, I seem to remember you having this problem with THAT version (the one you say is working) at one time. Feel free to correct me.

I think it has to do with re-booting. Whatever is bothering IT is cleared at re-boot and eventually IT gets corrupted again. Or maybe it has something to do with installation, but that seems tenuous.

Are you saying you ALWAYS get the metallic sound with #20 even at start-up?

If so, maybe it has something to do with the new instructions set? I am not a computer guy, I can get see the concepts but the details - I have no knowledge.

In my experience there is such a thing as a defective MB. I would give this a try. At least, it is a simple swap!

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

RE: A mystery unless ..., posted on April 3, 2009 at 12:49:06
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 gosh I'm sure I know less than you but I do know I played cplay 2.0 b 18 for 6 days no trouble initially then I moved on to version 19/20. The last several days(2 or 3 I think) I've been playing 18 no troubles and this is with eist disabled, hcc set at 150, 146 src @ 192 Khz(the most aggressive settings). It seems like (emphasis on the seems!!) that all the cplay versions associated with IMPROVED ASIO EFFIENCY have ultimately failed (in the sense of metallic sonics eventually). Not when I boot up 20. it sounds great for anywhere from 5-35 minutes before it goes metallic. Let me try to be clear about what the 'metallic overlay' I describe, sounds like. If you go into program files and delete one of the two Juli@ files (like juli@Pan) and then play cplay it sounds exactly like that. I tried it once just to see if it would work and if it worked how it would sound. So I believe that somehow my rig is overwriting or deleting or otherwise corrupting my juli@ drivers when I play 19 or 20 or 15, 16, 17 but not 18.

When I was into 19 and went back to 18 I got the metallics if I didn't reboot (right after running 19 into the metallics). Once I rebooted 18 was fine indefinitely.

 

RE: how to use foobar with cMP, posted on April 3, 2009 at 12:59:24
audiogremlin
Audiophile

Posts: 292
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 10, 2006
 cMP loads music files into memory so in cPlay, you don't need to select the option to load into memory. Does this hold true if using cMP with Foobar? My current Foobar setup is set to 100 for buffer size as per the Art of Building Computer Transports doc. I believe setting it to 100 means Foobar is reading directly from disk, not RAM. If using cMP with Foobar, do I need to set the buffer size higher or leave it as is because cMP automatically loads to memory?

Thanks.

 

RE: what am i doing wrong with cMP and Foobar?, posted on April 3, 2009 at 18:47:40
audiogremlin
Audiophile

Posts: 292
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 10, 2006
 I editted the second line to load foobar instead of cPlay as directed in the guide and as directed by other users. When I double click the cMP shortcut to start cMP, it starts but I have no idea what to do once the cMP interface starts up. Isn't it suppose to automatically start Foobar? Am I suppose to manually load it?

 

RE: what am i doing wrong with cMP and Foobar?, posted on April 3, 2009 at 22:01:06
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 With Cmp running, the selected player only plays when you select an album in cmp.

Basically it functions as content management and you select another player to play the song.

In a very general sense it is like clicking on the cue file in an explorer window or say the my music folder, and this brings up the default player. It is just that cmp replaces explorer and when you select the albums it show, it brings up the player.

Any luck with media monkey?

 

Rick and Cics: more data on my issue, posted on April 4, 2009 at 10:10:46
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 My gut is I don't think it is hw unless my processor or mobo can't handle version 20. I ran task mgr on both versions and cpu load is about the same. So I conclude processor at least is ok. But why would mobo work ok with 18 but not 20? Still no good answer.

Also I'm working with some other inmates in an effort to figure this out. I ran a torture test (with bios @ load optimized defaults) to see if I pass or fail. I ran an hour or so with no failures so my conclusion is mobo or processor are probably ok.

But then when I ran cplay it would not start. I got a cplay error diagnostic saying that I didn't have enough memory. Very strange, this could be related to my problem because when I rebooted all was ok. Cplay 20 then ran great for 30 minutes (no metallics) but didn't sound good (remember all 'load optimized defaults' in bios). So I then lowered host clock control to 150 (and reset all bios per cics spec except core voltage) and it went metallic right away. I began upping hcc until I got stable cplay @ 190 but it still sounded hard. So leaving the clock @ 190 I began lowering core voltage, got to .9 volts and boom: metallic. So I concluded that the bios levels that got me no metallics sounded bad with cplay 20. I reset all bios to all of cics specs, reloaded 18 and I get stable playback and decent sonics.

Still sound like the mobo to you? Kind of does to me but appreciate your feedback.

I'm running the torture test now at cics bios specs.

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 4, 2009 at 11:12:49
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Theob,

I doubt i could help with your issue. I have little experience with problems with cmp2.

But I can help with the photos (nice system by the way). You can post more than one photo per post by finding the photo and then hitting "preview message". That adds some html at the top of your post. That HTML is your picture. You can move it wherever you want. Then add another pict and press "preview message"

Now you have a 2nd line of html for the 2nd picture, etc...

 

RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but..., posted on April 4, 2009 at 11:18:56
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I wondered how to do that. Thanks!

 

RE: what am i doing wrong with cMP and Foobar?, posted on April 4, 2009 at 12:13:28
audiogremlin
Audiophile

Posts: 292
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Joined: October 10, 2006
 MediaMonkey definitely worked better than dBPowerAmp. There were no wrap-around errors.

I finally figured out what cPlay didn't like about my cue files. cMP with Foobar gave more helpful errors and I was able to find out that cPlay didn't like the c:\music in my path. It also did not like any cue sheet that had an extra space at the end of the sheet.

cMP and cPlay are working now and it was definitely worth the effort.

Thanks.

 

Why obsess on the processor?, posted on April 4, 2009 at 14:30:31
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 Dear Theo,

I do not think anyone has suggested the processor.

From the little I know (part of the more you know the more you discover you don't know syndrome) none of those tests would detect problems with the southbridge which the processor instructs which paths to open and close as needed.

Why a malfunction there would make the noises you are hearing is completely beyond me. BUT, I know I ruined an MB by stressing the SB and it no longer worked at all. I surmise that something has stressed your SB and that is why it is acting the way it does.

In any case, spending seventy dollars to verify this is a pittance in comparison to replacing your DAC, which you considered at one time. And, until this is verified you are completely in the dark. Not to say you might chance upon something else that turns out to be the problem, but barring that, this is about as important a place to start as one can think of.

Until you are sure it is NOT the MB it is next to impossible to help you. All any of us can do is throw suggestions to you and these are going to become increasingly arcane since you have tried just about everything BUT replacing the MB.

One good thing about this is that it should not require any reloading of software or re-implementing cics's settings. If it does, then that would mean your previous MB was not only corrupting itself but also the HDD.

And, if it doesn't help at all you have a back up or a board, I feel sure, you would have no trouble selling.

Bye,

Rick McInnis

 

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