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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

41.183.0.21
Posted on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

  1. Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
  2. Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There's no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise Bit Transparency.
  3. Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
  4. Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp etc.).
  5. Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP's Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
  6. Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
  7. Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
  8. Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP's bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP's sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there's better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments.

FRONT



BACK



More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

  • A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

    This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.

    Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).

    I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

    I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

    After cMP:

    My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

  • A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

    the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

    After cMP:

    I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.

    The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

  • A music lover based in Australia:

    I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.


FEATURES

  1. Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP's limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it's more optimal.

  2. Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores!

  3. Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp etc. (player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

  4. All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In techno speak this is called separation of concerns.

  5. Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

  6. Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There's no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

  7. Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional .flac suffix to the content file's name must be removed (otherwise your cue's content file directive will not be found).

  8. CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that's easy to setup and use. cMP's core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP's perfect resolution). DAC's have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP's bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).


GETTING STARTED

Visit cicsMemoryPlayer.com where you'll find detailed easy to follow instructions and much more.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit as this is where cMP's main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP's 2nd dirty power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.


Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP's software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

 

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RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 07:02:16
aljordan
Audiophile

Posts: 1252
Location: Southern Maine
Joined: November 4, 2003
 Hi cics,

Have you measured the temps of the drives, cpu and motherboard in this configuration? Being fanless, I am curious how warm the internals get.

Thank you,
Alan

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 08:24:30
SashaV
Audiophile

Posts: 273
Joined: September 25, 2006
 What is the purpose of Granite digital PSUs (mentioned as secured under the CD/DVD drive)?
I see a standard PC PSU and a power cable going into the case through one of slot covers at the back, is this 2nd power cord for those Granite PSUs?
Is the purpose to power hard drives and minimize ripple on main PSU powering motherboard?
Would not the same be achieved if externally mounted SATA hard drives with their own PSU are used?

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 09:35:44
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Only measured the CPU (which remains below 50 celcius) - because CPU is underclocked to 1200MHz, there's very little power consumption. That's why passive cooling works so well.

Case is large and has many ventilation holes allowing for cooling - the only area where temperature rises is at the CPU heatsink. I also have CPU shutdown temperature set to 75 celcius and have never experienced a problem.

 

RE: Granite Digital PSs, posted on December 30, 2007 at 10:20:40
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Good questions.

I see a standard PC PSU and a power cable going into the case through one of slot covers at the back, is this 2nd power cord for those Granite PSUs?

Yes.

What is the purpose of Granite digital PSUs (mentioned as secured under the CD/DVD drive)?
Is the purpose to power hard drives and minimize ripple on main PSU powering motherboard?

See this for background information. HDDs generate a great deal of power supply noise pollution. See this for noise measurements on both 5V and 12V lines using an oscilloscope. When this load is taken off the main PSU, we get cleaner voltage lines and the 5V line is measured here. Edward did a great post here on his experience.

Granite Digital's PSs allows for other components to be externalised. It offers a standard SATA connector and a Molex connector. These Molex connectors are used to power other computer items:

  1. CD/DVD-ROM Drive
  2. wireless mouse USB receiver
  3. ROM drive's USB port
  4. Touch screen LCD monitor (which uses 12V line)
  5. Touch screen USB connection


This is a lot of stuff and they're bound to pollute the critical mobo and CPU power lines (12V1 & 12V2).

Would not the same be achieved if externally mounted SATA hard drives with their own PSU are used?

Yes this would work for HDDs but doesn't help with other stuff mentioned above. I also wanted a single box solution.

Thanks.

PS - sorry for all those links.

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 12:47:22
Tuckers
Manufacturer

Posts: 2004
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 29, 2001
 Does this software disable the LAN if it is already installed in a system?

 

RE: Granite Digital PSs, posted on December 30, 2007 at 16:56:34
SashaV
Audiophile

Posts: 273
Joined: September 25, 2006
 Thank you for great information.
I built my PC around Zalman TNN 300, but did not do separate PSU for hard drives, this will be my next step.
What are your thoughts about taking hard drives physically out of the case for reasons other then power pollution (I do not care about looks), would it be beneficial to have them outside for heating and RFI/EMI reasons?
This was actually something I was thinking about, having SATA hard drives in external enclosures, but so far I have not found well reviewed enclosures that provide passive cooling.
BTW I did not keep CD-ROM in Zalman, I rip on another PC, then transfer files over network (NIC is enabled on Zalman during file transfer only).
I am not following the idea of powering externally wireless mouse USB receiver?
In my PC I have mouse and keyboard connected to PS/2 ports, all USB ports are disabled, so I assume I am as clean as possible, hard drives aside?

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 16:59:33
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 Dear Cics,

Some how, I can only download the program but not the documentations on your links?

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 17:35:44
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 found it

 

Thanks, posted on December 30, 2007 at 21:16:15
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RE: disabling LAN, posted on December 30, 2007 at 21:25:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 No, cMP's software will not do such things. I have developed & tested it across multiple computers each with different configurations (and different sw running, e.g. MS Outlook, Mozilla, Adobe, Firewall, etc.).

For example, my Dell is permanently connected to the LAN (and Internet) and I do all my stress testing here with cMP's software running HTPC stuff, etc..

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 21:51:49
kana813
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Location: Maui
Joined: March 31, 2004
 Just like your other rig, the whole thing can only be as good as the soundcard and PSUs.

Once again, you're using noisy off the shelf SMPS units and a soundcard with an optical(Toslink) S/PDIF digital output limited to a max of 96kHz and no external clock link.

The Zalman HD160XT case may make it look like the NP Memory Player, who's name you're ripping off, but it will never sound as good.

 

RE: using external HHDs and Wireless Mouse, posted on December 30, 2007 at 22:15:38
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I built my PC around Zalman TNN 300...

Mine is still operational (and am very reluctant to move it). The retailer where I get this was very proud that a recording studio is using it. Anyway, I'm getting brilliant results with the HD160XT as well - and that's using ESI's Juli@ card which is 4 times cheaper than my RME HDSP 9652.

What are your thoughts about taking hard drives physically out of the case for reasons other then power pollution (I do not care about looks), would it be beneficial to have them outside for heating and RFI/EMI reasons?


It would be an improvement as vibrations and HDDs radiation is taken away. Vibrations do impact jitter but this is not as significant as power supply noise (both ripple and ground). My preference is for a good case that dampens these HDD vibrations. The heat is not an issue: its more important that temperature remains constant as varying temperatures cause clock jitter (that's why they have temperature compensated crystal oscillators - TXCO/OCXO/VCTCXO). This is also the reason why source equipment is on 7x24. Varying temperature has more jitter impact than vibrations.

If you plan to install this separately, let us know of the results.

I am not following the idea of powering externally wireless mouse USB receiver?
In my PC I have mouse and keyboard connected to PS/2 ports, all USB ports are disabled, so I assume I am as clean as possible, hard drives aside?

When playing music I have no keyboard. Mouse is a Logitech wireless one which operates via a USB receiver device. This USB receiver provides a wireless connection to mouse and in turn the mobo sees a normal mouse. This functionality requires power which it takes from the USB 5V line. Hence, I source this power from GD.

In your case, you have a standard mouse connection which would consume a very small amount of power from the PS/2 mouse port. My need was to be able to change CDs from my listening chair... problem comes when using wireless mouse receivers which operate at 2.4GHz and I would hear its interference.

 

RE: using external HHDs and Wireless Mouse, posted on December 30, 2007 at 23:06:37
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 C

problem comes when using wireless mouse receivers which operate at 2.4GHz and I would hear its interference

So are you saying that by having a separate power supply for USB, the rf from your mouse will not be heard??

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 23:54:40
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 Is it possible to have real time kernel patch in WinXP like Linux to make things even better?

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 30, 2007 at 23:56:43
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 Actually, what is the power requirement for the motherboard? Should not be too hard to build a linear power supply for that? But I suspect that there are internal DC to DC converter which operats at switching mode as well

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on December 31, 2007 at 02:59:49
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 cMP with Optimize set to Critical aims for this (and does another important optimization). I haven't seen a RT kernel patch for XP (as I've seen in Linux) but with Critical and an ASIO based soundcard, there's big improvement. Even without a proper ASIO soundcard, you'll get good results with ASIO4ALL.

 

Processes you should see in Process Explorer or Task Manager, posted on December 31, 2007 at 03:11:33
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I've received an email on this. When cMP is run in 'cMP Mode' (the recommended way, i.e. under settings activate cMP mode by pressing 'start cMP' button - this is done after soundcard and foobar2000 settings are complete). Process Explorer should show the following 11 processes:





Please note process 'FSCapture.exe' is reflected above - this program is only here to capture the screenshot. If there is more than one svchost.exe, you have other services started in Windows (see section 4.12 in AOB Computer Transports version 0.3).

Windows Task Manager is not recommended.

 

RE: using external HHDs and Wireless Mouse, posted on December 31, 2007 at 08:22:20
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Before separate power supply I had to use a ferrite core.

After separate power supply I don't need that ferrite core. I didn't detect a difference with or without it.

 

What will this do an existing XP installation?, posted on December 31, 2007 at 12:50:09
Kiep


 
I have a pc with Thermaltake fanless cpu heat sink and fairly quiet psu that came with Antec Sonata 2 case. The pc is very quiet and I don't envision changing it to Zalman case but would like to try your software and maybe few other mods you recommend.

I would like to know what will your software do to the existing XP installation. Also, is it customized for only the components you listed or will it work with other souncard, for example EMU 0404pci which I currently use with EMU ASIO driver and Foobar 0.83.

Thank you.

 

RE: What will this do an existing XP installation?, posted on January 1, 2008 at 02:41:53
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 ...Zalman case but would like to try your software and maybe few other mods you recommend.

Case is entirely optional as well as SATA RAID (because there's no disk traffic during playback but RAID does load faster). I would suggest you do all other optimizations (or as much as possible).

I would like to know what will your software do to the existing XP installation.

No impact here as long as you have XP SP 2. cMP's sw should run perfectly well. I've tested it on 6 computers (including 2 laptops) with success. Also, others have used it on their installations during pre-release testing.

Also, is it customized for only the components you listed or will it work with other souncard, for example EMU 0404pci which I currently use with EMU ASIO driver and Foobar 0.83.

It works on any soundcard. The 6 computers I used, each had a different soundcard and some of the pre-release testers had USB ones. Your ASIO based EMU 0404pci should be awesome here! Do you have its latest drivers?

cMP will play any player you prefer including foobar 0.8.3.

I'd be very interested in your feedback comparing 0.8.3 vs latest 0.9.5b? release. Also, are you using SRC (Secret Rabbit Code) upsampler?

 

RAM / PSU, posted on January 1, 2008 at 04:49:05
Audio Bling
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Australia
Joined: October 9, 2007
 cics,

Two questions:

1. At this time I am running cMP with 1x1GB OCZ platinum PC2-6400 (which sounds v. good). I note that you recommend 2x512MB HyperX modules. I am not sure if I should trouble myself to follow your recommendation; please give me your thoughts. Also wondering whether you have tested 2x1GB HyperX modules (or similar)?

2. With regard to PSU, I note you recommend a 700W unit. Have you tried a smaller unit (say 450W)? Do you “hear†a difference or are you just building in a “safety margin†with the larger unit?

Regardz,

 

RE: RAM / PSU, posted on January 1, 2008 at 08:17:30
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Thanks for the feedback.

  1. RAM. Recommendation is to use one 1GB RAM module as the Biostar P4M900 (VIA chipset) yields a command rate of 1T. When I test with 2x512MB RAM modules this changes to 2T (an additional clock cycle delay between RAM commands). The OCZ you have is perfect.

    I found sound doesn't change much when comparing directly and would struggle to describe differences. I wanted to test 2 modules to see if there was better bandwidth (this is not the case).

  2. PSU. Go for highest wattage as budget allows as this reduces ripple voltage. All PSUs must meet ATX standards which amongst other things, specify ripple voltage in absolute terms, eg. 12V1 & 12V2 within 120mV ripple (Vpp) at alls loads (see section 3.2.6 in ATX link provided)! For this to occur at higher loads, PSU suppliers must do more to manage voltage. Benefit comes in big time with audio as we consume significantly less power (and therefore see much less ripple noise).

    I haven't done direct PSU comparisons. In my case it was the 350watt (Zalman TNN-300) vs 700watt CoolerMaster (using Zalman HD160XT case). I also had different soundcards (RME for 350watt & Juli@ for 700watt) and different RAM (1x1GB for 350watt & 2x512MB for 700watt). 350watt one also enjoys benefit of a SR Designers Ref power cord.

    Both scenarios give stunning results (as redirecting load to 'dirty' PSUs helps greatly) and would say the 700watt yielded a better performance (using a stock power cord). The better performance comes from less ripple noise and Juli@ soundcard (vs RME HDSP 9652). RME card does off-host ASIO processing (which is not needed as E2140 has plenty headroom even when underclocked) and has more complexity (supporting 52 channels). I like Juli@'s simple but quality approach (and have also removed its analogue PCB).

 

question on PSUs, posted on January 1, 2008 at 10:45:19
CD
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 26, 2003
 At what point would it make sense to use linear, non-switching, power supplies instead? I realize they're big and expensive, but if you've figured out how to divide up the PC's power needs, and if we're in any case using relatively low amounts of power, would it make sense to employ an inherently quieter design for the critical parts?

Thanks for posting all this stuff, cics! Even for those of us operating at lower levels of perfection, your work has been a source of lots of good hardware and software ideas.

 

RE: question on PSUs, posted on January 2, 2008 at 04:34:20
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Artcheng also suggests this option. For me both the 12V1 (mobo 24 pin) and 12V2 (CPU 4 pin) are critical. Yes you both right but I'm thinking why stop at linear PSUs and why not go for the purest source, i.e. battery?

The idea is to have a form factor like a normal PSU (maybe longer). It houses 2 laptop batteries: each providing shielded harnesses for 12V1 & 12V2 respectively. With this low power consumption setup, batteries can last for a good few hours playing music. PSU has built-in charger with IEC power inlet and switch (Off, Charge, Auto). In Auto mode, charger kicks in when system is idle. If there's something like this I'd buy it immediately!

I hope this makes sense.

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 2, 2008 at 04:50:26
Dynaudio_Rules
 I must be kind of slow...its still not clear to me exactly what this software does and exactly step by step how to install it.

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 2, 2008 at 07:45:46
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 Once you get on to the web page, you need to press next to get to the next pdf file. You can then download the pdf file which contains the step by step gudlines about what you need to do

 

RE: question on PSUs, posted on January 2, 2008 at 07:53:20
CD
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 26, 2003
 You can always use ordinary SLA batteries with a trickle charger -- you just need a switch that switches the battery or batteries between the application (on) and the charger (off). It's a lot bulkier than a normal PSU and there's an extra switch to turn, but it's technically simple -- I've done it for DACS and T-Amps.

The question seems to be total power needs. Since you've moved the motors to another supply, the battery would be running the CPU, RAM, mobo, soundcard, right? Just poking at the numbers, for something built around a VIA board and chip, sipping a few watts, this seems pretty do-able. But for a fast CPU to run Secret Rabbit Code, and someone wanting say eight hours of continuous play, the amp-hours climb. I also don't know about battery longevity. There must be a battery-using subculture on one of these boards that knows this stuff better.

 

RE: question on PSUs, posted on January 2, 2008 at 08:27:14
db


 
I don't have the technical chops to do it myself--at least without some help--but I am interested in powering a computer with SLAs.

I am using Red Wine Audio S-70.2 SLA powered amps, and this seems to me the way to go. Red Wine is coming with a battery-powered DAC/tube preamp this spring, which I will certainly try. That will leave only my computer running on AC.

Check out the Red Wine forum
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=78

The advantages are that battery power is free of ac-line grunge and the inherent 60 cycle hum; it is free of the noise that is produced in rectifying and filtering AC; and SLAs allow very powerful current surges that get choked out by AC power supplies. This seems what the doctor order for an audio PC.

The S-70.2s each have two 12 volt SLAs. The amps put out 30 watts, and they will run 20 hours or more on a charge. The forthcoming preamp/dac is supposed to run 6-8 hours on a charge, keeping the filaments of two vacuum tubes hot.

I am satisfied customer of Red Wine Audio, but have no other connection.

db

 

Here's the individual links, posted on January 2, 2008 at 10:14:16
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Introduction

Installation Guide & User Manual

AOB Computer Transports version 0.3

(Working on a single reference paper...)

Software Installer

 

RE: question on PSUs, posted on January 2, 2008 at 10:31:21
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 The question seems to be total power needs. Since you've moved the motors to another supply, the battery would be running the CPU, RAM, mobo, soundcard, right?

Correct. Total power would be ~30watts (underclocked E2140 CPU @17, RAM @5.4, mobo+s/card @8). RAM power consumption based on Kingston HyperX range with 5.4 watts reported in SiSoft's Sandra Memory Bandwidth Benchmark test. I haven't actually measured total consumption which could be less (as most devices like onboard sound, LAN etc. are disabled thus consuming less power). If someone has the XG Magnum 500 PSU, the power reading on its display would be the correct consumption.

But for a fast CPU to run Secret Rabbit Code...

No problem here. I run SRC at 96k and CPU remains underclocked. Vcc remains at 1.16V (giving 1200MHz) so no additional power load here.

 

Thanks! most useful (nt), posted on January 2, 2008 at 11:58:21
CD
Audiophile

Posts: 597
Joined: August 26, 2003
 .

 

Ok Thank You!!!, posted on January 2, 2008 at 14:07:13
Dynaudio_Rules
 Told ya I was slow...:-)

 

RE: using external HHDs and Wireless Mouse, posted on January 2, 2008 at 19:05:26
Dynaudio_Rules
 You can hear a difference between a mouse with a ferrite core around the cord and one that does not have one???


Hmmmmmmmm 0.^

 

RAM / power consumption, posted on January 3, 2008 at 00:04:18
edward
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Joined: September 28, 2007
 cics - you say Sandra's Memory Bandwidth Benchmark reports the power consumption. I must be really tired from partying all last week, but I can't seem to find it. What version are you using? And can you be specific as to where I can find the power consumption numbers.

Thanks!

 

RE: using external HHDs and Wireless Mouse, posted on January 3, 2008 at 02:48:05
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Yes! This happens when I use mobo USB port. It also helps with the kit I have - maybe I should do a 'Equipment Used' post.

Here's an example: I've been planning to install shelves etc. and after doing that, I reinstalled my cMP. Played music and simply couldn't understand why sound was poorer - low level details being fudged! So, was my new shelves causing this... anyway went to bed disappointed.

Only then I realized I plugged the wireless receiver (now without ferrite core) into mobo USB port (!!!) and not the alternate one. Next morning I corrected this and alls well.

 

SiSoft Sandra Memory Bandwidth Test, posted on January 3, 2008 at 03:07:34
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I'm using Sandra Lite: 2008.1.12.34

Select Benchmark Tab > double-click Memory Bandwidth > press Refresh icon to start test.

Look at the output report, a line entry reports power. Here's my Dell pc which has dual channel access for 2x1GB RAM (speed is 200MHz, cheap quality):





The entry I'm referring to is 'Chipset(s)/Memory Power' which shows 17.4W - with my Kingston HyperX it shows 5.4W.

 

Equipment Used, posted on January 3, 2008 at 04:12:39
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I was reluctant to list this as I feel cMP will deliver brilliant results on majority of setups. What you do with AC circuits is however very important. You don't need stellar kit.

Having said that, I also got an email on this and as Dynaudio_Rules correctly suggests perhaps hearing a difference using a ferrite core on the USB receiver may be questionable. Yes, I can hear this difference & other changes but I don't have golden ears. The kit is highly revealing:

  • Speakers: FocalJMLab Nova Utopia Be (you can see one in the background of cMP's front picture).
  • Speaker Cable: Kimber '16TC' (2x8TC per speaker)
  • Amps: Levinson 33H using its captive power cords. Power is taken from a dedicated 20amp circuit with high quality circuit breaker. Circuit terminates into a high-current choke based line filter using Neutric connectors. Although 33H regenerates power this is only for the voltage gain section, hence current gain section benefits from line filter.
  • DAC+PreAmp: AA Prestige SE (as pure DAC, ie. internal Sony transport and analogue inputs removed, and yes this makes a difference). Currently burning-in another DAC: dCS Scarlatti (DAC + Clock). I plan to use both DACs (this requires a bit of cable swapping).
  • XLR I/C: Synergistic Research Tesla Apex X2 (previous was Absolute Ref X2). With Absolute Ref, I would struggle to hear differences, not so with the Tesla Apex - its significantly better. Active shielding is done via SRs Quattro unit.
  • Transport: cMP (using Zalman TNN-300 and RME HDSP 9652 Soundcard)
  • Digital I/C: Audioquest Optilink 5 (or Van den Hul Optocoupler II). (Difference between glass fibre and high quality / high bandwidth plastic is very obvious with glass being much better).
  • Power Cords: Transport uses SR Designers Ref from a basic line conditioner. DAC & Quattro active shielding uses SR Absolute Ref. For DAC, power is taken from Audio Magic Mini Matrix line filter fed by another SR Absolute Ref power cord.
  • Rack: Equipment including amps placed on custom built reference stands. Design based on mechanical grounding principles.


All electronic kit is located in adjacent room. I only have speakers and LCD screen in listening room.

 

Wireless Mouse.....Dawnrazor care to repeat?, posted on January 3, 2008 at 05:48:26
Dynaudio_Rules
 Cics, you put in a lot of work with this, I appreciate your effort and willingness to share...

However in the intrest of science I would like to see this repeated.

First we need a system with the resolving power to make such a change audible, then someone willing to participate.


I volunteer Dawnrazer

 

RE: Equipment Used, posted on January 3, 2008 at 06:06:10
Dynaudio_Rules
 Wow, the Gold is in your pockets! [kidding...well not really..:-)]

Have you tried using ferrite core on your HD cables or any other wire. On the powercord I can hear a difference for sure...99.9% negative. However I do have them on things that transmit data [both external and internal HD cables].

 

I received a wonderful email a few weeks back..., posted on January 3, 2008 at 07:50:12
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 from someone who shared a core value:

I'm into social justice - not envy


It's profound and certainly resonates with me. I thought I'd share it ☺

Have you tried using ferrite core on...

Tried this on many interfaces (including power cables) and in some cases there's a difference. Don't get any change (for better or worse) on lesser gear I have.

 

On OCZ 800MHz 1GB RAM try this setup, posted on January 3, 2008 at 08:59:49
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I get improvements with Kingston's HyperX 800MHz (KHX6400D2UL). RAM setup (in BIOS):

  1. DRAM Clock to 267MHz (DDR2 533)
  2. DRAM Timing to Manual
  3. Timings to: 3-3-3-9, Bank interleave to 4, leave Trfc & TRRD at defaults


This gives greater bandwidth but no penalties by way of more latency or more power - its very stable at default RAM voltage of 1.80V. I would be interested in what you get from the OCZ.

 

RE: Equipment Used, posted on January 3, 2008 at 14:28:16
kana813
Audiophile

Posts: 135
Location: Maui
Joined: March 31, 2004
 "Difference between glass fibre and high quality / high bandwidth plastic is very obvious with glass being much better."

Bet you couldn't tell the difference in a DB test.

IMO, upgrading the Toslink TX/RX modules will make more of a difference, but you obviously don't like upgrades that require the use of a soldering iron.

 

RE: question on PSUs, posted on January 3, 2008 at 16:26:23
SashaV
Audiophile

Posts: 273
Joined: September 25, 2006
 Form factor aside, does anyone know of a source for either linear regulated PSU or battery pack with shielded harnesses, that would replace switching PC PSU?

 

What do you upgrade aToslink module to?, posted on January 3, 2008 at 16:27:36
Kiep


 
What is the best one you would recommend?

 

RE: What do you upgrade aToslink module to?, posted on January 3, 2008 at 22:27:47
kana4813


 
TOTX/TORX142. You may have to modified the existing voltage rail(5vdc vs.3.3vdc for these parts.)and enlarge the existing chassis opening to use these parts. Check the datasheets for bypass cap recommendations.

Sorry cics, I know this violates your guidelines, since it involves the use of a soldering iron and some hand tools other than a screwdriver.

 

RE: SiSoft Sandra Memory Bandwidth Test, posted on January 4, 2008 at 01:20:05
edward
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Joined: September 28, 2007
 Ahh...I was using an older version. I downloaded this new version and tried it with a couple of different PCs/configs. Do you think it's very accurate? I mean is it actually taking a measurement, or just looking up average values from a database depending on what brand you have? Also, that value includes the chipset AND memory, so I don't think it's fair to say your Kingston is consuming 5.4W. And I don't think there's RAM that consumes 17.4W. Most of that value is attributed to the chipset. My Kingston RAM shows it only consumes 2.1W according to the datasheet. And I tried the same 1GB stick of Corsair RAM on two different PCs and Sandra reported 15.5W on one PC and 5.4 on the other. Also, I compared that same stick either configuring it to DDR2800 w/2.1 voltage or DDR2400 w/1.8 voltage and the Sandra value did not change.

 

Yes the value is based on chipset used. For Kingston HyperX measure I meant Biostar mobo and not Dell..., posted on January 4, 2008 at 08:45:43
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Such highs of 17watts is likely - the rule of thumb was 3 watts per 256MB giving 12watts for 1GB.

Sandra calculates whenever it recognizes the mobo chipset. From my understanding, this is the only way to determine RAM power consumption as it depends on RAM commands performed (which is what the software does and how RAM is implemented - the chipset). On datasheet specifications (Kingston KHX6400D2UL) you'll get 'operational' power consumption of 1.922watts or in your case 2.1watts - this doesn't include activity or RAM commands. See here on detailed power calculation. Vdd in your case is 2.1V.

Power consumed is based on manufacturer specifications (by command like IDD7) and other items. In your case with Vdd at 2.1V, power reported would not be correct. As a rough guide add the proportional increase in voltage to watts reported by Sandra. Sandra also adds the chipset power component - thats why you get different readings from different chipsets. The large difference is a surprise - have you tried contacting Sandra? My Dell uses Intel chipset giving 17.4watts total. What chipset does your PC that shows 15.5watts use?

 

RE: Wireless Mouse.....Dawnrazor care to repeat?, posted on January 4, 2008 at 17:10:33
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 12587
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Dr.

THanks for thinking of me. I don't have a wireless mouse that I could test with, and quite frankly, I didn't do much of what CICs is proposing....so I don't think it would be definitative if I did it.

NOw if someone sent me a cMP player I would be happy to test. :)

Also, my system is using dacs INSIDE the PC, and CICS is advocating getting the D to A out of the PC.

BUT, I think that if I get around to it, I might have some info that could explain why different players sound very different. I just need to buy a piece of gear that will help me measure different players.

One day....

 

Chipset power consumption, posted on January 5, 2008 at 01:45:31
edward
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Joined: September 28, 2007
 OK - here's what I got:

With 1 stick of 1GB Corsair XMS2 (CM2X1024-6400C4)
on ASUS P5W DH Deluxe motherboard (Intel 975X chipset) = 15.5W
and on Biostar P4M900-M7 SE (Via chipset) = 5.4W

Incidently, I'm currently using 1 stick of 2GB Kingston (KVR400D2N3/2G) and, on the Biostar, Sandra reports 6.6W

I've swapped it out with the Corsair, only a couple of times, comparing both with the same settings (PC2-3200 3-3-3-8), but so far I like the sound of the Kingston better.

 

cMP will work in your setup..., posted on January 5, 2008 at 02:41:00
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Also, my system is using dacs INSIDE the PC, and CICS is advocating getting the D to A out of the PC.

cMP is totally flexible here. Mine based on Zalman HD160XT is currently set for analogue output via Juli@'s analogue PCB. This was also part of my
testing. I have headphones connected to its RCA outputs and volume control via Foobar. SRC upsampler set to 192k (of course, no SPDIF interface☺). Juli@'s internal DACs then do the rest...

Some questions on your setup:

  1. Soundcard being used
  2. RAM type, size and settings
  3. Player and upsampler being used
  4. Mobo type (mATX, ATX?) and make
  5. Are you applying any BIOS optimizations


Make sure you apply the critical Windows settings that's required to run cMP's software. You'll see this in the Installation Guide. Output 24/192 to your soundcard and try the optimizations - just a recommendation.

In my setup, I get stable 24/192 analogue playback. SRC at 'Best Sinc interpolator' does put significant load on E2140 CPU and causes CPU voltage to transition to higher levels. Juli@ latency at 48 samples (0.25ms) gives dropouts but not so at 64 samples (0.33ms). cMP Optimize set to Critical. Sound is good.

I want to connect powered speakers directly to Juli@'s analogue outs (preferably balanced via its TRS connectors). Can someone recommend something at reasonable cost? I'm looking at:

  • JMLab's Solo 6Be - expensive (& JMLab strictly sells to studios)
  • Meyer Sound's HD-1 - even more expensive but comes highly recommended
  • M&K MPS-1611P - a cheaper alternative?


I want an elegant, high sound quality low budget system (total cost ~$3500).

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 5, 2008 at 04:27:14
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 Dear Cics,

You may also want to check this out. Can reaplce the harddisk with Ram and it runs on battery too!

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 5, 2008 at 04:28:03
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 forgot the link

http://techreport.com/articles.x/9312

 

RE: cMP will work in your setup..., posted on January 5, 2008 at 07:17:27
Dynaudio_Rules
 Powered Speakers.


You may want to look at Dynaudio, I am loving my BM 6A MkII's. However I did find they sound a lot better when I changed the wire inside.

 

RE: cMP will work in your setup..., posted on January 5, 2008 at 07:22:45
Dynaudio_Rules
 at 48 samples (0.25ms) gives dropouts but not so at 64 samples (0.33ms).

To be a RAM player wouldnt you want more samples [in] RAM as supposed to less?

I know in the recording industry they want very low or no latency on music coming in....but for music going out we would want to use RAM to buffer the music by increasing the samples...yes/no? maybeso???

48 samples would require less time than 64 samples, but .25ms is more time than .33ms.........as my Japanese friends would say [doshite? Are wa totemo hendayo!]

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 5, 2008 at 15:24:55
Dynaudio_Rules
 Cool, but you may want to wait because Samsung already has Solid State Hard drives....

4Gigs of RAM plus the pci card will set you back $300+ bucks. It would be nice if they did that to video cards though.

You can load ubuntu on a flash drive and boot from it, load a light weight music player and no hard drive needed at all....

 

RE: Chipset power consumption, posted on January 6, 2008 at 05:56:15
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 That makes sense. Intel chipsets use more power hence more heat.

Kingston HyperX quality is very good, my settings are here (PC2-4200 with RAM specified for PC2-6400 - still underclocked).

 

Dynaudio AIR 12 looks very good! Any idea on cost?, posted on January 6, 2008 at 05:58:45
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 .

 

RAM playback and Latency settings, posted on January 6, 2008 at 08:37:32
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Why are we very strange? (my Japanese is non-existant)

To be a RAM player wouldnt you want more samples [in] RAM as supposed to less?

All samples are in RAM as per wav (or flac or other) content file. For a CD wav that would be ~600MB loaded in RAM.

Foobar does playback via sound buffers (or chunks) which are prepared in RAM. This allows for DSP processing like SRC upsampling. The buffer size is determined in foobar's settings (preferences > output > buffer length). Buffer size can be specified in time, samples or bytes (foobar uses time).

Samples are streamed to the soundcard from this sound buffer - for audio, 2 or more are used. While one buffer is being played, another is being readied. Sound buffers are prepared (during playback) from wav (or other content) file samples and processed by SRC upsampler to the new sample rate (in my case 24/192). This processing is not time critical and with enough CPU capability, sound buffers are prepared ahead of time.

For example, a 100ms foobar buffer setting at 24/192 will require 19200 samples (each sample contains both L & R signal amplitudes). Alternatively, that would be 300KB (19200 x 2 x 8) - foobar processes in double precision (thats 8+8 bytes per sample). It's very important when using SRC and no other DSP, that you set foobar's buffer to the minimum of 100ms as more would cause heavier CPU demand and potentially prevent buffers from being prepared ahead of time. Wav file at 16/44.1 would provide 4410 samples for each 100ms buffer.

I know in the recording industry they want very low or no latency on music coming in....but for music going out we would want to use RAM to buffer the music by increasing the samples...yes/no? maybeso???

48 samples would require less time than 64 samples, but .25ms is more time than .33ms...

This is very important: both Recording and Playback are realtime events.

All playback occurs from RAM. Consider a 100ms foobar sound buffer being played. Samples converted to 24 bits (or 32 bits depending on soundcard driver) from this buffer is streamed in real-time to the soundcard. This is where latencies come in. At 24/192, 48 samples give 0.25ms (48/192000) latency and 64 gives 0.33ms (64/192000) which is longer. You must see latencies as the amount of sound data being transfered. So why is less better? For me, its two-fold:

  1. PCI: See P18 of AOB Computer Transports v0.3. PCI prefers high volumes of much smaller payloads (data transfers). (Note, newer mobos run USB and Ethernet outside of PCI bus but still share traffic with North/South chipset so traffic sharing here must be avoided).
  2. ASIO: Also prefers lots of small payloads.


Hence, there's excellent synergy between soundcards and ASIO. Most optimal setting is with smallest stable latency as this utilizes both PCI and ASIO to its respective strengths, ie. lots of small data transfers. This lays the foundation for real-time bit-perfect delivery and reduces jitter. See Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis for cMP at 24/96 output using SPDIF coax. How many transports have you seen capable of 24 bits resolution (technically 23.5+ bits due to rounding error in measuring)?

In the measurement performed, source is set to 32 samples latency (RME 9652) and target to 48 samples (Juli@). Both machines configured to full cMP specifications with target running Steinberg's Cubase LE recording sw.

 

Ahhhhh, Thanks for explaining, posted on January 6, 2008 at 09:21:22
Dynaudio_Rules
 Thanks for the detailed explanation!!!!

BTW, Are wa totemo hendayo = That is very strange...not we....

 

RE: Dynaudio AIR 12 looks very good! Any idea on cost?, posted on January 6, 2008 at 11:53:56
Dynaudio_Rules
 Not sure about the cost, but if you look at the line you may not want to settle on the 12's. The AIR line has features that you may or may not want.

ADAM loudspeakers are another brand you may be interested in...Very very good. My next speakers [floorstanders] will be ADAM's.

 

RE: On OCZ 800MHz 1GB RAM try this setup, posted on January 6, 2008 at 16:11:06
Audio Bling
Audiophile

Posts: 307
Location: Australia
Joined: October 9, 2007
 cics,

I have now had the opportunity to make this change as well as (importantly) have a decent listen over a few days. I can confirm that with 1GB OCZ Platinum set to 533MHz (rather than 400MHz as before) and with timings set to the values you have prescribed my impression is overall positive. I feel that there is more “body†in the music and that it is a “fullerâ€Â, more “natural†presentation. At the 400MHz setting, my feeling is that the presentation, by comparison, is a bit "trebley" which has the effect of conveying an undue sense of “speedâ€Â. In summary, I think the change is a good one providing the RAM is up to the task (Hyperx, OCZ or similar). My one hesitation is that if the system is already a bit “bloated†or “full†or “slow†the change will seem to slow things down even further which would not be desirable.

Thanks again for your guidance.

Regardz,
Bling

System: cMP PC > EA Off-Ramp > Custom built DAC > Supratek Sauvignon > Blue Circle BC26 > Thiel CS3.6; Cables: ZU Varial, Bocchino Morning Glory, Harmonic Tech Pro-9+; Power cables: Oyaide Tsunami, Cerious Tech

 

RE: On OCZ 800MHz 1GB RAM try this setup, posted on January 6, 2008 at 21:43:21
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Thanks.

You would get further improvement with increasing DDR2 voltage in BIOS. Try this by incrementally adding +0.1V. I have mine set to +0.3V - slight increase in power consumption but well worth it. (A higher or lower voltage would cause instability - this is entirely dependent on RAM & PSU combination).

Overall, setting correct voltage gives higher bandwidth and lower latencies with excellent RAM stability. Here's a summary of the options:





Highlighted item is most optimal. Percentages show improvements over 200MHz default settings.

 

Foobar volume control is interesting. Can anyone shed more light on this?, posted on January 13, 2008 at 11:48:53
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Tried foobar developers - no joy.

It seems volume control is done after DSP processing. This means volume is applied to 24/96 output on a 16/44.1 CD and there's no lag effect to volume change.

It would be interesting to learn more about its accuracy.

 

Maybe I double post?, posted on January 15, 2008 at 16:52:30
steppe
Audiophile

Posts: 641
Joined: September 28, 2006
 Hello, Cics. Thanks for answers. I couldn't reply immediately because of Asylum crash and a time difference.
The cue file thing is sad but not deadly after all.
I meant a different PSU that has Active PFC -
see: www.thermaltake.com/product/Power/PurePower/w0107_108/w0107w0108.asp
Sorry for being stupid, but What does cMP software do?

ALSO A BIG QUESTION - What about SCSI 160 or 320 (I have two highiest end hdds - Seagate Cheetah SCSI 320 15K, that I'd like to use in my server/player)? They are lightning fast and have very big internal cashes. They don't seem to chirp or whine much.
Please, be patient. Serge.

 

How to use cMP if you only have wav (or flac) files, posted on January 16, 2008 at 03:22:12
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 cMP uses cue files for navigating your music library. If cue files don't exist then here's a workaround (as suggested for HTPC setups) that creates cue files. Do the following:

  1. Copy a few wav files to a temp folder
  2. Rename *.wav to *.iso
  3. Run the makeISOcue utility (which you'll find under c:\program files\cics Memory Player\sample htpc)
  4. Select the temporary folder and press 'Make CUE'
  5. For each .iso file, you now have a .cue file
  6. Delete *.iso (as you still have original .wav files)
  7. Edit each .cue file. Suggestion if each .wav is a track:
    • Set Genre to actual genre
    • Set Performer to Artist and CD title, eg. Elvis Presley - Inspirational
    • Set Title to Track # and track title
    • Correct FILE directive to .wav (or .flac) from .iso

  8. Move .cue files to your music library folder that contains corresponding .wav files
  9. Edit cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file and change CUE_PLAYER line to show %F (and not the default %C). This tells cMP to pass the player the actual content file (like a .wav or .flac) instead of a .cue.
  10. Test.


You should get Genre followed by Artist/CD Title/Track and be able to play by track.

 

RE: RAM / PSU, posted on January 16, 2008 at 04:43:32
Telstar
Audiophile

Posts: 250
Joined: November 17, 2007
 Both scenarios give stunning results (as redirecting load to 'dirty' PSUs helps greatly) and would say the 700watt yielded a better performance (using a stock power cord). The better performance comes from less ripple noise and Juli@ soundcard (vs RME HDSP 9652). RME card does off-host ASIO processing (which is not needed as E2140 has plenty headroom even when underclocked) and has more complexity (supporting 52 channels). I like Juli@'s simple but quality approach (and have also removed its analogue PCB).

Cis,
Did you try RME Fireface 800 ext firewire card?
From what I heard it should provide the best sound quality, altough it costs MUCH more than the Juli@.

 

BIOS: disable HPET and WDRT, posted on January 16, 2008 at 07:07:35
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 On Biostar P4M900 mobo, disable HPET (also disabled in Windows) and WDRT (Watchdog Resource Table) under 'Power Management Setup'. These are not needed.




 

Advanced: Replace winlogon.exe with minlogon.exe, posted on January 19, 2008 at 04:44:30
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 This optimization works very well with cMP. Only do this after all changes are done. Windows security overheads is reduced significantly and there's no logon prompt at startup☺ Boot time is faster. Sound improves as Windows footprint reduces (less overheads). Windows operates using '.Default' user. All user settings (Desktop, Appearence, foobar, ?) will need to be redone. It's worth rechecking all optimizations again.

Follow instructions here - minlogon.exe is part of Windows XP Embedded SP 2 and works with XP SP2. Registry entry 'Config' (DWORD) mentioned in instructions needs to be created. See this post on how to implement without manually editing registry.

[Optional] Mention is made of Windows File Protection (WFP). Follow instructions here - be careful not to use alternate instructions as this applies to XP SP 2 (other OS versions have different procedures). Only do this if you're comfortable with HEX editing!

 

Haven't tried the RME Fireface 800 ext firewire card., posted on January 21, 2008 at 11:25:20
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Yes cost is an issue with RME. Fireface 800 has much more functionality over what I need. My preference is for simple but quality implementations like the Juli@.

 

RE: Haven't tried the RME Fireface 800 ext firewire card., posted on January 21, 2008 at 11:58:45
Telstar
Audiophile

Posts: 250
Joined: November 17, 2007
 Try the ESI Duafire, the DAC is inferior to the juli@, but you may get less jitter and noise anyway.

 

RE: cMP - trojan horse?, posted on January 21, 2008 at 12:26:40
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 When trying to download this from the recommended sourceforge link https://sourceforge.net/project/platformdownload.php?group_id=111495
AVAST anti-virus software reports a trojan horse Win32:autohk [trj]!!!!

Can anybody else find/check this?

 

I've not had any such notification, posted on January 21, 2008 at 12:36:34
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
Audiophile

Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
Joined: December 15, 2003
 I have downloaded it numerous time.

Unless someone has inserted it there since my last downlaod, this has not been my experience.

I can vouch for one thing: there are few souls on earth as charitable and kind as "cics". If such a thing has happened to cause this he will be mortified and embarrassed.

 

RE: I've not had any such notification, posted on January 21, 2008 at 13:01:22
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 That's why I posted here - I know cics would not do this so I wondered if there is something wrong with AVAST or a virus has crept into the cmp exe?

Can anyone try download with antivirus protection on & report back? I'm keen to have a look at this memory based audio player

 

Just Downloaded & Installed: McAfee shows no errors, posted on January 22, 2008 at 02:56:00
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 McAfee has latest updates as well. Tested cMP from this install and everything is in order.

Looks like AVAST is complaining about AutoHotKey - cMP uses this in cicsRemote and so does the OSK (ahkosk). Its the first time I've seen this. Also downloaded and installed autohotkey and no problems from McAfee.

 

RE: Just Downloaded & Installed: McAfee shows no errors, posted on January 22, 2008 at 03:13:27
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Thanks cics,
I thought it must be something wrong with AVAST - anyway, worthwhile knowing! I will download it tonight & give it a go!

 

RE: Haven't tried the RME Fireface 800 ext firewire card., posted on January 22, 2008 at 03:26:11
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 ESI Duafire has no digital outs? I see Balanced and RCA analogue outs.

I'm using Juli@ in my 'minimalist' setup. Its amazing with foobar/SRC set to 192k. Also, no problems at lowest latency of 48 samples! (Had problems when using an expensive $400 mini-itx mobo - $55 Biostar mobo betters it). AKM 24/192 DAC chip (112db SNR) is used on the Juli@.

Is firewire your preferred interface?

 

RE: Haven't tried the RME Fireface 800 ext firewire card., posted on January 22, 2008 at 04:29:03
Telstar
Audiophile

Posts: 250
Joined: November 17, 2007
 An external soundcard is not susceptible to noise from computer like any pci one. Firewire is the best interface, because USB has intinsic jitter.

 

FSB frequency is only 100Mhz with Biostar P4M900-M7 SE. Is this how it should be?, posted on January 26, 2008 at 21:57:38
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 That gives FSB:DRAM ratio of 1:2 when DRAM is set to 200MHz. There's no option in BIOS to change FSB frequency, and no jumpers on MB to do that.

What are your thoughts on that?

 

RE: FSB frequency is only 100Mhz with Biostar P4M900-M7 SE. Is this how it should be?, posted on January 27, 2008 at 00:11:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 With CPU-Z, you should get the following:



FSB is 800MHz and bus speed is 200MHz. What CPU are you using?

Core voltage should read 1.168V. This is my second setup (1.296V) and I'm using normal voltage (as I need the extra CPU power for 24/192 processing).

 

RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player, posted on January 27, 2008 at 06:27:08
Doc Gaw
Reviewer

Posts: 137
Joined: February 23, 2002
 Using computer with Vista. Can't seem to get the thing to run the music files onto RAM.
Will there be an update for the instructions on building this using VISTA. Would be greast as easier to overcome the Mixer.

Bill

 

It's E2140, using normal voltage., posted on January 27, 2008 at 06:50:47
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 CPU-Z shows core speed 600MHz (instead of 1200), bus speed 100, Rated FSB 400. Core voltage 1.168.

Something doesn't seem right. Will try to update MB drivers with the latest (from Biostar site, now everything's installed from CD).

Any idea what could be wrong?

 

RE: It's E2140, using normal voltage., posted on January 27, 2008 at 07:41:30
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 That's very strange!

Try updating BIOS - should this not resolve it then fault is most likely with mobo. Have it replaced.

 

Vista, posted on January 27, 2008 at 08:17:35
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I received feedback that cMP runs under Vista.

With 1 GB RAM, how much available physical RAM do you have? cMP will not do RAM loading if there's insufficient available (ie. wav file size is larger than available RAM). Also, memory usage must be set to 'System Cache'. I'm not planning to do a Vista guide as most optimizations have been successfully applied in Vista - Edward had done this. Mixer is bypassed using either Kernel Streaming or ASIO under XP.

Can you apply this optimization under Vista?

 

Problem disappeared shortly after (but not right after!) updating BIOS., posted on January 28, 2008 at 07:53:26
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 I flashed BIOS with the latest, and I could swear that reboot right after that still yeilded the same wrong numbers in CPU-Z. But, shortly after that it all became normal (1.2 GHz CPU core, 800 MHZ FSB) and stays normal.

Go figure.

 

RE: Problem disappeared shortly after (but not right after!) updating BIOS., posted on January 28, 2008 at 08:50:19
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 That's great!

Sorry - should've mentioned immediately after reflash, power down, do CMOS reset (using jumpers) then perform 'Load Optimized Defaults' in BIOS. Thereafter reset BIOS to correct values.

 

RE: Vista, posted on January 29, 2008 at 11:44:29
Doc Gaw
Reviewer

Posts: 137
Joined: February 23, 2002
 Have 3 gig RAM and planning on boosting to 4 but I understand that Visata will only recognize 3.5. Is there any way of blocking off 2 gig of RAM just for music playback. aM USING A cORE 2 quad 2.4 AND i'VE NOTICED THAT MOST PROGRAMS ONLY USE AT MAX TWO OF THE CORES with FOOBAR and J. River Media Center 12 only one.

In the next couple of weeks will be doing a review of the Memory Player from Nova Physics Group for enjoythemusic.com. http://www.novaphysicsgroup.com/TheMemoryPlayer.html
Any relationship?

Bill

 

RE: Vista, posted on January 30, 2008 at 06:31:57
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
Vista will only recognize 3.5

According to this MS article Vista will only give you 3.12GB. XP Professional sees 4GB. It seems Vista reserves RAM as per RAM used on Graphics card. The only way more RAM can be accessed is using 64bit Vista. Going to 4GB RAM won't help.

blocking off 2 gig of RAM just for music playback

Blocking as in reserving 2GB RAM just for playback programs is not possible. OS controls RAM allocation based on actual runtime demands. Its much better to have a dedicated computer for music (and its relatively cheap).

NOTICED THAT MOST PROGRAMS ONLY USE AT MAX TWO OF THE CORES with FOOBAR and J. River Media Center 12 only one

Quad core processor is not an ideal choice due to its higher power consumption and clock speed. Having all 4 spinning up during music playback is unlikely: foobar will use 1-3 depending on OS (never tested J. River). Programs have to be designed to exploit this multi-core capability. For example, SRC upsampler component in foobar can benefit by splitting its workload across 2 or more threads. This is not done in SRC as yet.

doing a review of the Memory Player from Nova Physics Group for enjoythemusic.com. http://www.novaphysicsgroup.com/TheMemoryPlayer.html
Any relationship?

Apart from concept being similar (which is not something new), there's no relationship whatsoever. Would be interesting to do a comparison with cMP. For such comparison, I would recommend XP SP 2 Professional with ASIO 2.0 soundcard. Things like using minlogon instead of winlogon in XP has significant benefit and this is unlikely to be available in Vista. There are other optimizations that I'm not sure of when using Vista (like kernel changes).

 

Question to cics - what's your opinion on CPU undervolting, for instance using CrystalCPUID?, posted on January 30, 2008 at 13:30:08
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 Hi,

I would like to play with undervolting - I don't use upsampling, and therefore could easily live with frequency much less than 1.2 GHz. Biostar mobo doesn't provide any undervolting/underclocking options in BIOS, but there's CrystalCPUID utility that allows to do that on Windows side.

Have you tried it, and what's your experience if so?

 

RE: Question to cics - what's your opinion on CPU undervolting, for instance using CrystalCPUID?, posted on February 1, 2008 at 22:46:26
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Haven't tried this but its definitely worth a try.

On this Bisotar mobo, CPU voltage is set to default but undervolting is achieved via Windows (in Power Options, use 'Max Battery' scheme). This achieves CPU voltage of 1.168V versus default of 1.296V.

At this voltage, I'm upsampling to 24/96 using SRC without any latency issues.

 

RE: Vista, posted on February 3, 2008 at 05:59:05
Doc Gaw
Reviewer

Posts: 137
Joined: February 23, 2002
 Would you be interested in a COMPARISON REVIEW of one of your self-built machines vs. the Memory-player. If so send me an email at DocGaw@msn.com

 

How to implement minlogon.exe (made easy), posted on February 5, 2008 at 09:42:32
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 This yields significant benefit and its implementation as explained in links provided is difficult.

Here's the basic steps.

  1. Get a copy of minlogon.exe:
    • Download Daemon Tools Lite (3.6MB) onto your normal computer and install. A taskbar icon becomes available. Daemon tools emulates a CD ROM drive from image files (.iso files).
    • Download XP Embedded SP2 Feature Pack 2007 (131.7MB .iso file)
    • Mount downloaded .iso file. Click Daemon Tools taskbar icon, select drive, select the downloaded 131.7MB .iso file.
    • Select 'Browse CD' option from XP SP2 menu (this is automatically launched when .iso file is mounted).
    • Open file 'XPEFP2007.exe' with 7-Zip or WinZip. Do not run this program - you must instead perform open archive from 7-Zip.
    • Locate and copy file 'minlogon.exe' (23KB) from 'rep' folder.

  2. Create 'minlogon.reg' file using Notepad with following contents:
    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
    "Config"=dword:00000017
  3. Install minlogon.exe on target computer (for cMP, switch to XP Mode):
    • Goto C:\Windows\System32 folder and rename winlogon.exe to winlogon.exe.bak.
    • Copy minlogon.exe file to C:\Windows\System32 folder. Rename it to winlogon.exe.
    • Cancel Windows File Protection (WFP) prompt and continue. Make sure that new MinLogon file isn’t replaced by WFP (check file sizes to confirm)! If you are unable to do this then you must disable WFP - see link provided in original post for XP SP2.
    • Double-click minlogon.reg file - this implements registry change needed.
    • Reboot computer.
    • XP boots to system account ('.default' user). First boot takes longer and there's no logon prompt. Desktop and other settings needs to be redone. Test playback.

 

Vista Embedded, posted on February 6, 2008 at 22:22:06
edward
Audiophile

Posts: 160
Joined: September 28, 2007
 I believe there is a version of Vista Embedded, which I assume is the only way I can get my hands on MinLogon. Any idea how I can get a hold of Vista Embedded or at least Min Logon (without buying it)?

 

RE: Vista Embedded, posted on February 7, 2008 at 21:21:23
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Try downloading a 'trial' version if available.

I'm not sure about the registry entry for Vista - this may be a risk.

It may be worth going back to XP SP 2 for this.

 

RE: Vista, posted on February 7, 2008 at 23:57:01
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 Bill,

A comparison will be very interesting.

However, this would require building a cMP as I'm not based in the US - shipping costs alone will be more expensive.

 

192khz digital out soundcard to PC, posted on February 8, 2008 at 19:22:25
n_vincent
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Joined: November 27, 2007
 I just made my first stape in my computer transport and I red in a previous message that you (Mr Cics) have done a setup with a 192khz setup link from the sound card to the dac. I own a DCS deluis conveter able to handle dual aes link (two 96khz link) have you already try this type of connexion if yes, what sound card model and does this bring the quality to a higher level ?

 

RE: 192khz digital out soundcard to PC, posted on February 8, 2008 at 23:04:09
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I'm outputting 24/192 to soundcard (ESI Juli@) which in turn converts using AKM DAC chips to analogue balanced outputs. This is all done on the soundcard.

Many soundcards (including the Juli@) offer 24/192 digital SPDIF out via RCA coax. Unfortunately, only a few external DACs allow for 24/192 input. My Prestige SE and Scarlatti DAC cannot handle 24/192 via coax/BNC/AES. Dual AES input is proprietary to dCS and I haven't seen a soundcard that offers this yet. Rick has a DAC that allows for 24/192 BNC input - see this post.

Comparing 96k to 192k, there is a difference with 192k offering cleaner & more natural highs. Juli@'s DAC SNR is 112db which is good but other cards like EMU's 1212M offers 120db SNR (using Crystal DAC chips) - amazing! For now, both my external DACs upsample 24/96 to 24/192 (which is less optimal as SRC is much better).

 

RE: 192khz digital out soundcard to PC, posted on February 9, 2008 at 03:36:06
n_vincent
Audiophile

Posts: 34
Joined: November 27, 2007
 Dual AES link is accepted by RME and Lynks sound card i'm just not sure that it is fully compatible. DCS tell's in the Deluis documentation that it can be use in dual aes link even is the dual aes header is not in the audio flow.

 

How to disable WFP (made easy), posted on February 10, 2008 at 00:25:26
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 When trying to change winlogon.exe, Windows just replaces it with its own version without prompting (which would allow one to prevent this). Only way to bypass this problem is to disable Windows File Protection (WFP).

Here's the basic steps for Windows XP SP2 only!

  1. Copy file C:\Windows\System32\SFC_OS.DLL to a folder and rename it to SFC_patch.DLL
  2. Download Free Hex Editor (493KB) and unzip file. Hex editor is called XVI32.exe which you must double-click
  3. From Hex Editor, open file SFC_patch.DLL. Press Ctrl-G (for GOTO) and set as follows:



    On OK, you should get:



  4. At offset 0xECE9 (as done in Goto), change hex 33 C0 40 to hex 90 90 90 and save the changes. Hex Editor should show:



  5. Create 'sfc_os.reg' file with following contents:
    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
    "SFCDisable"=dword:ffffff9d

  6. Copy file SFC_patch.DLL to folder C:\Windows\System32
  7. Double-click sfc_os.reg file to make the registry change
  8. Boot system using Windows Installation CD (this takes a while)
  9. At Welcome screen, press R for Repair
  10. You will be prompted for which OS. In most cases, there's only 1 OS installed. Press 1 then Enter
  11. Windows will prompt you for the Administrator password. In most cases this is not set so just hit Enter
  12. You are now in the Recovery Console and the command prompt should show "C:\Windows"
  13. Enter these commands in sequence:
    • cd system32
    • ren SFC_OS.DLL SFC_OS.DLL.bak
    • ren SFC_patch.DLL SFC_OS.DLL
    • exit

  14. After 'exit' command, your system reboots. Remove Installation CD

WFP is now disabled!

 

RE: 192khz digital out soundcard to PC, posted on February 10, 2008 at 00:50:26
cics
Audiophile

Posts: 1320
Joined: November 9, 2006
 I have the RME HDSP 9652 card and it only offers one digital coax output (up to 24/96) via breakout cable. Coax can be changed to AES with settings set for 'Professional'.

Do you have a specific RME card model? I'll take a look at the Lynx option.

 

RE: 192khz digital out soundcard to PC, posted on February 10, 2008 at 01:29:23
artcheng@netvigator.com
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Joined: November 14, 2003
 You may also have a look at this

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_aes32.php

 

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