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Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak

147.252.94.16
Posted on November 27, 2015 at 06:21:15
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 I started a thread on this which has become polluted by know-it-alls & various numbskulls with gripes. As a result any listening impressions of this tweak are lost in the "noise" of the chattering numbskulls

So here's a thread (which will hopefully avoid the "noise" of numbskulls) in which to report on your experience with this modification.

I have repeated the modification details below from the other thread




I was asked for details of an easy & reversible modification to the Regen that greatly improves its sound quality.

This is not another PS to plug into the DC input of the Regen - it's a bypass of the 3.3V on-board regulator with a 3.3V LiFePo4 battery supply. I know the regulators are said to be state of the art but a LiFePO4 battery smashes this out of the park.

Obviously you need to open up the Regen to connect a battery to the output from the 3.3V regulator & ground, thus bypassing the regulator. There is a ceramic capacitor C3 right at the output of that regulator - the reg at the top of the pic - REG33.

There's a copper via with a 5 beside it at top of that C3 capacitor - this is the GROUND point for connection. The other side of the capacitor is the connection to 3.3V positive (the one with two vias side-by-side). You need to attach the battery + & - poles to these points - soldering to these vias is best. It's very easy to reverse this if desired.

This powers the USB hub chip & the clock which is all that's needed for audio devices that don't need USB Vbus 5V power for signalling or for powering the audio device. You can still do this tweak but you need to supply the 5V separately

BTW, I forgot to include this: this provides a far superior sound than using 2 of the same batteries to power the Regen through its DC input so it's not just the batteries that make the difference but bypassing the REG33 also. This signifies, to me, that the regulator is a limiting factor.

I don't exactly know how a better PS on the Regen's clock & USB hub chip translates into a better sound downstream at the audio device - I don't believe any measurements have yet revealed this?

Try it & post your reports

Edit: I am reminded by some of the posts on this thread to warn people that they do this at their own risk & that they should be somewhat competent in DIY to do this. These batteries can put out a lot of power - treat them with respect - as you would a car battery - they are that powerful

Edit: To find suitable batteries do a search for "26650 LiFePO4 batteries" - make sure they are 3.2V & get the ones with tabs welded to the ends (they are easier to solder a wire to). Something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-26650-3-2V-3-3AH-LiFePO4-Rechargeable-Battery-w-tabs-/320657847254?hash=item4aa8b273d6:g:puoAAOxyPH9RvsJ2

You need to trickle charge the battery with a 3.3V regulated supply. This is just an ordinary 3.3V supply, NOT a LiFePO4 battery charger (a LiFePO4 battery charger will output 3.6V which you don't want)

Finally, if you want to make this permanent, you will need to put a switch after the battery that turns the Regen on/off unless you want to leave it on permanently

Edit: I also see John Swenson has posted about this & he is correct. So let me reiterate what I originally proposed

- trickle charge the LiFePO4 battery with a regulated 3.3V PS permanently connected, NOT a LiFePO4 battery charger (thus avoiding > 3.3V)
- I didn't propose using the Regen's onboard 3.3V regulators as the trickle charger but when people asked about using it, I suggested trying it. Once this regulator is ONLY ever trickle charging, there should be no strain on that regulator chip.
- Don't allow the batteries to go low in charge. This could happen if you don't have the 3.3V trickle charger connected/powered & you are running the Regen off the battery. If you are going to store it away for a period of time then disconnect the battery from the unpowered charger.

If these recommendations are followed this should operate without a hitch, no need for battery bypass capacitors etc.

NOTE: If you allow the battery to run low (you should never let it run lower than 2.7V) you need a different approach to recharging/reconditioning back to 3.3V. As pointed out by JS these batteries will attempt to draw a significant current from any PS that is connected to charge them. Thus the 3.3V PS needs to be self-limiting & this is probably where you can usefully use a LiFePO4 battery charger while the battery is disconnected from the Regen (i.e switched off)

As I said, this shouldn't be needed if you permanently trickle charge the battery

 

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RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 07:05:48
chopper87@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 942
Joined: September 2, 2001
 I have the batteries and appropriate charger ordered. I will report my listening "opinions" as soon as possible.

If this easily reverseable tweak/upgrade/bypass, offers the sonic benefits discussed, then I/we owe you a great big thanks.


Lance A.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 07:11:40
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Thanks Lance - I look forward to your impressions.
If you need help, just shout.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 08:32:26
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I use double Regens into a Benchmark II HGC dac that requires 5 v input from the USB cable. So I only modded my 1st Regen. Once I isolated my battery acoustically on an Aurious the sonics were fabulous. Think depth and inner detail. Timbre was superb and space between instruments in large classical pieces opened up a bit so imaging was very precise. Hall ambience improved. Instruments like piano, mandolin, harpsichord were never better. Everything sounded much more real. Jk advises I can do better by eliminating the unmodded Regen which still uses the onboard regulator. I understand how to do it conceptually but I can't figure out how to do from a practical standpoint, yet.

Strongly recommended.


One more thing: low level detail and dynamics are significantly improved.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 09:14:04
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Thanks for your impressions, Theob

Just to clarify, I'm saying that your battery powered Regen MAY be better than the two Regens that you are currently using.

What you need is a 5V Vbus signal for the Benchmark DAC for initial handshaking between PC & DAC.

What I suggest you do is use only the tweaked Regen but power it normally through its DC input AND also have the battery connected - this will provide 5V to the DAC. When DAC has done handshaking disconnect the DC input to the Regen & leave battery connected.

This should now play just using this one Regen.

Let us know if this sounds any different to using 2 Regens

Another solution:
I would normally DIY this but to give you an idea of how to remove your second Regen you could use a 5V power spliced into the USB cable like is done in this AQvox solution.

http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html

Essentially, it's a USB adapter which has had the 5V Vbus trace interrupted & spliced into so that this 5V can be provided with a suitable external supply.

As you don't need the 5V for powering any part of your DAC, just for an initial handshake signal, the quality of your %V is no that important so you won't need the Aqvox solution - this was just to give you an idea of how to go about this.

There are some USB adapters which have been modified in this way but I can't find them now - maybe someone has a link?

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 09:18:19
theob
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Location: ann arbor michigan
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 Only problem is that I believe the Benchmark uses the 5v for handshake and for ongoing operation.so I need to splice it insomehow

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 09:27:20
theob
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Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I was initially thinking of running 5v to the 2 outer pins of the Regen outgoing USB connector. I see where to do it but it is very tight in there and difficult in my mind to solder. Your idea of a dual cable going from Regen to the dac is a good one but Alex from a Uptone says to keep that cable really short. I'll keep working on it because I believe the payoff will be worth it.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 09:36:14
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Oh, right, I thought the Benchmark DAc only needed the 5V for handshaking.

So you do need a quality 5V supply if this is powering some parts of your DAC. Why not look into the Aqvox then - it provides a reasonable PS & a modified USB adapter into which this 5V PS is connected to. If you do this, the only extra bit added between DAC & Regen is this modified USB adapter. At some later stage you can use a better 5V supply - maybe even battery :)?

BTW, how are you charging the battery?
Do you notice any sonic hit to charging it concurrently while playing music?

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 09:44:29
theob
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Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 "BTW, how are you charging the battery?
Do you notice any sonic hit to charging it concurrently while playing music?"

I have the trickle charge on all the time and notice no degradation with it on.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 09:52:51
theob
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Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 One other sonic improvement, and maybe its the reason for all the other sonic benefits, is transients now are much more distinct and not smeared.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 12:14:36
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 "One other sonic improvement, and maybe its the reason for all the other sonic benefits, is transients now are much more distinct and not smeared."

Yes, I find the realism of the soundstage is greatly improved - more solidity & distinctness to the individual elements. As you say the distinctness of the leading edge of sounds seems to be improved. It's always difficult to relate our auditory perception of elements such as these with underlying changes in the analogue waveform (as we see from the inconclusive measurements done so far on the Regen) but I believe that & more stable noise floor (& possibly a lower one) is responsible for the lack of any perception of smearing?

It's hard to believe that these perceptually OBVIOUS sonic improvements wouldn't be measureable, isn't it?

I'm hoping to send my battery modified Regen to Bibo01 & Tom to do NCD difference measurements but I'm still not holding my breath that conclusive differences will be found as noise floor stability (in the presence of dynamic signals) is not easy to measure, I believe.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 27, 2015 at 18:16:56
Bob_C
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Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Thanks for the thread John and the great info.

One thing... I really do not think it is appropriate to use the term numskull as it actually gives them too much credit. I associate numskull with the my childhood idols the wonderful Three Stooges from whom I have learned so much! I consider numskull a term of endearment, and as such they do not deserve it. :)

Best Regards
Bob

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 05:03:05
theob
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Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I have been all over this (trying to bring 5 volts to my Regen USB output connector)and there are no easy solutions. So I think using a dual headed USB cable as you suggest is the best least intrusive solution. Do you (or anybody else) know of a short version of this?

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 05:43:24
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Try searching for "5V power injector for USB" & I'm sure you will find something that suits

I don't know how good it is but I found this http://linitx.com/product/mikrotik-5v-power-injector-for-usb-on-rb411uahr-and-rb493g/12849

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 06:30:04
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Thanks. The aqvox power injector is just what I need. Hope I can buy just the power injector portion of their cable. I sent them an inquiry.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 08:55:35
chopper87@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 942
Joined: September 2, 2001
 Build one yourself. It is easy. I can walk you through it if needed.

Lance A.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 09:20:05
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
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 Teradak makes one, and Paul Pang also makes a power injector.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 10:44:46
theob
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Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
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 You've got mail.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 14:45:21
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Actually, Theob, it's not tight or difficult at all to connect 5V to the USB output connector on the Regen - this is the connector on the right of the picture. The pin at the bottom of this connector in the pic is the 5V pin - it is the one with the wide trace going to it from the REG5

You should connect your +5V from your PS to here & the PSes gnd to the battery ground or any other ground point on the board

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 16:05:38
theob
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Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 That was my plan but it still requires soldering on the battery powered Regen. If I could avoid that, that would be preferable. I was hoping to construct a aqvox like power injector. But maybe I'll have solder on the board.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 16:08:39
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 I'm not sure what the problem is - you've already soldered wires into the vias for the 3.3V battery supply, right?

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 28, 2015 at 16:23:02
theob
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Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Only problem is there is no hole for the 5v feed. So i would have to do surface soldering. Look I am going to get there. I"m just taking my time exhausting all possibilities.

 

What you lose is, posted on November 28, 2015 at 21:27:29
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 the current limit and thermal shutdown capabilities of the TPS regulators (see data sheet). It is really not safe in the long term to connect an unprotected high current supply like so. You should also try it with and without trickle charging as this can simply mean paralleling a quiet dc supply with a noisy one. And if you have a very good 3.3V charging source, you may not need a battery.

As I have already posted, there are other, even easier ways of improving SQ, and I have done it with battery plus dc power into the Regen, coupled with other PC tweaks. However, as stated, I shall compare the direct battery power mode with 3.3V superregulator power and other methods.

What is clear is that, by tweaking the Regen, one can get much better sound than from other competing devices like passive filters and straight forward usb hubs like the Wyrd.

 

RE: What you lose is, posted on November 29, 2015 at 03:57:12
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 It's bad enough you polluting one thread but now you want to butt in on another thread with off-topic posts - this thread is about listening impressions of the Regen battery tweak - what is your problem?

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 05:08:15
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Finally got just one Regen running by tapping into the little prong (that runs from the mobo to the top of the back of USB output connector ) for the 5v. And into the battery ground as you suggested. I used another Regen as the 5v source. Result was not as good as my initial 2 Regen configuration. Just to be clear I use a very expensive power cord into the 2nd Regen power source. Using a generic power cord makes the comparison closer. Sonic differences are (for the dual Regen) deeper depth, tighter bass more extension top and bottom, better inner detail and dynamics. Power cord is KK palladium or something like that. Retail value was something like $1k bought it when I was working and had more $ than diy skills. So there it is. Sorry to debunk the theory that 1 Regen is better than 2. It all depends on the individual power supply to the Regen 2nd one that is.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 05:47:28
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 I've no problem being wrong but from what I understand of your setup you are running a 5V from your mobo to your DAC. It would not surprise me that this sounds worse than the previous 5V which was coming from your 2nd Regen?

Do I misunderstand your config?

 

This is not a forum, posted on November 29, 2015 at 05:53:07
fmak
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Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
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 where you own a thread and talk to two other inmates, repeating again and again the same stuff.

Read the Forum rules as a manufacturer.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 06:12:21
theob
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Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 I run a USB cable from PC to the battery powered Regen whether it's running solo or in tandem with a 2nd Regen. I don't understand your comment. When I ran solo battery powered Regen it was 5v powered by yet another Regen not connected to anything except the mains. I soldered its 5v terminals to get 5v to go to my 3.3v battery powered Regen. Even in single or double Regen the Regen dumps the incoming USB 5v power, as I understand. So the boundary conditions are the same for single or double Regen.

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 06:22:04
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Right, when you said mobo, it confused me (I'm reading this on a phone) - I want sure where the 5V was coming from, that's why I asked.

So the 2 Regens is still better than one - very good!

 

Maybe you should read the rules, posted on November 29, 2015 at 07:12:24
rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com
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Posts: 3040
Location: Atlanta
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 This just might be the most ridiculous comment I have ever read. But I rest assured there will be many more to follow.

jkeny has nothing to with any battery manufacturer nor is he the maker of the REGEN. Yes, he is a manufacturer, which he acknowledged and has made no mention of his wares. A perversion of the rules which seems to work with many people these days, just look at the nonsense that comes out of court rooms. The rule that was intended to protect the readership is then used against them. Some think this is cleverness but then these are not clever people.

Your comments are absurd and are just the thing that brought Roman Besnow to consider AA the stupidest audio forum. I am beginning to think he is right.

We should, from here on in, make it plain that these forums are only for products, unaltered, from their manufacturer and we will only allow discussion of unsullied gear. If it does not come with UL and EU stickers it is off limits. SAFETY FIRST! There might be nine years old children reading this and there is the chance they will burn their fingers with those dangerous batteries.

Maybe there are adults masquerading as nine years old children reading this? That would explain it.

It is a shame that AA has become a society of third rate debaters and nannies.

Too much time on the internet and not enough time listening and improving their systems.





 

RE: Maybe you should read the rules, posted on November 29, 2015 at 07:23:22
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Why is it absurd to say that a poster does not own a thread.
and control what inmates post. If Kenny wants to do so, he can buy a thread in CA.

You butt in all the time with all kinds of remarks.

 

You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 07:58:12
AbeCollins
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Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 I have to agree with fmak - which is rare for me. Every thread on the Asylum is open to any inmate for participation, comment, and scrutiny.

As a Manufacturer that promotes the use of LiFePO4 batteries as a major benefit to his product line, jkeny's post might even border on conflict of interest.



 

RE: Maybe you should read the rules, posted on November 29, 2015 at 08:56:38
Ryelands
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Posts: 1867
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 Why is it absurd to say that a poster does not own a thread.

I assume you're asking a question. No, it's not absurd but it is surely reasonable to ask contributors who have already dominated (to the point of taking it over) one thread to keep quiet on another one explicitly started on a narrow remit.

Every thread on the Asylum is open to any inmate for participation, comment, and even scrutiny.

True but there surely becomes a point when insisting on doing so becomes so tiresome by dint of repetition that one is at risk of being scrutinised (so to speak) as an attention seeker.

Having a Regen, I'd like to try the tweak and have the chance to discuss the practicalities in relative peace without the usual suspects shouting from the sidelines, esp as they've already hijacked the earlier thread.

I'm not sure I'm getting it. If good manners are not explicit in the rules, they are surely implicit. No?

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 09:36:35
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Hi John,

Just a thought... I understand that you have found that leaving a charger on the battery has no noticeable detriment to sonic. Your DACs clearly show that. So what about leaving the Regen powered normally and allow its reg to act as the battery charger? Would that not be the same?

Regards
Bob

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 09:48:11
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Yes, it should be very similar (I won't talk about my DACs here as numbskulls will only further pollute the thread) - I just had one proviso I mentioned before & that was the 5V regulator on the Regen being active when powered from DC input which might introduce some ground noise but I doubt it.

Why not try this & report your findings?

I suggest that people try the battery running the Regen & see if it improves sonics enough that it's worth pursuing looking at a more permanent arrangement for charging & switching on/off, etc.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 09:57:12
Bob_C
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Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 ""I have to agree with fmak - which is rare for me. Every thread on the Asylum is open to any inmate for participation, comment, and scrutiny.

As a Manufacturer that promotes the use of LiFePO4 batteries as a major benefit to his product line, jkeny's post might even border on conflict of interest.""

This gets more moronic by the day. He uses batteries, so it is can be a conflict of interest... LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fred is off the rails just wanting to argue, and you must be so bored and just want to derail every thread that does not promote your limited view of life.

Fred,

You love to complain, even if there is nothing to complain about.

Yes as the device in the audio store we know batteries do not last forever, that is why we can always buy new batteries. For some they are more trouble than they are worth, and for others the sonics are well worth the bother. To each he own.

And even if you don't agree with what John is saying you do have to keep hammering every point. WHY??? What purpose does it serve???

Do you see that when one of the totally clueless starts to agree with you, you are taking the wrong path.

You do not like when your opinions are suppressed by the clowns, so please try not to stifle others... Please...

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 10:04:35
Bob_C
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Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 I intend to eventually try some different things when time permits. Lot's of real life stuff to worry about first though, and I am happy for the time being with the Regen as is with a linear supply.

Regards
Bob

P.S. I see since you started this thread, your company has gone IPO and you have been hanging out with Mark Zuckerberg. Congratulations!!! :)

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 10:26:27
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 "P.S. I see since you started this thread, your company has gone IPO and you have been hanging out with Mark Zuckerberg. Congratulations!!! :) "

Oh, I wanted to keep that quiet but you've blown my cover - this was just my philanthropic pre-Christmas gesture but I guess I'll just enjoy my estate on Maui instead. At least the specially trained guard dogs will keep the numbskulls off the estate.

Mark just called - off to surf now so no more time for Q&A

 

Readers are free to draw obvious conclusions about personalities behind the posts., posted on November 29, 2015 at 11:15:42
Tony Lauck
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 Inmates are free to post whatever they wish, with few limits. The flip side of this freedom is that other inmates can and will draw the obvious conclusions as to the personality behind the posts (and they are free to abstain from commenting on their conclusions as well).

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 11:19:57
Tony Lauck
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Joined: November 12, 2007
 I've also run a REGEN off a 5 volt (USB) supply rather than the supplied power supply. It seemed to work OK, but probably because my DAC doesn't require 5 volts from the REGEN.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 13:03:20
AbeCollins
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  Since: February 2, 2002
As usual Bob we see you jumping in at the tail end with nothing to contribute, nothing helpful to anyone ever, and only the occasional stupid YouTube video here and there. Enjoy yourself.



 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 13:54:37
Bob_C
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Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Warning the batteries in your cell phone, mouse, keyboard or vibrator might explode! You have a Regen??? Oh you sold it... Why are you here??? LOL

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 13:59:59
AbeCollins
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  Since: February 2, 2002
You have me confused with someone else. I said nothing about cellphones, mice, keyboards, or your vibrator. I said nothing about the potential for battery explosions. Get your "facts" straight.

Yes, I once owned a REGEN so I have an interest in what some owners -might- hear with a battery operated REGEN.

Do you own a REGEN? Have you owned a REGEN?



 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 14:05:22
Bob_C
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 LOL!!!

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 14:14:44
Bob_C
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Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 Here are three fire warning posts. LOL Short term memory issues? SMH...

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/15/153178.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/15/153224.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/15/153228.html



If you would like to know if I have a Regen, maybe read the threads and not crap on them.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 14:24:19
AbeCollins
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  Since: February 2, 2002
A safety warning is 'crapping' on this thread? Where is your contribution?

Also, I think you have a comprehension problem. No where do I say that the battery has the potential for explosion or catching fire. Better read my posts more carefully.



 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 14:34:02
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 I feel like I am teaching Romper Room... ROTFLMAO


Let's see your words... Cleopatra

"""Inmates: Play at your OWN RISK....

These batteries are capable of supplying a ton of instantaneous current. Careful handling and a fuse wouldn't be a bad idea.

So you mean to say a battery that can source current in the 10's of Amperes is not a fire hazard? I suppose the battery itself might not ignite but we're talking about current that can melt wire insulation and can even weld metal.

Not being pedantic & argumentative. Just pointing out safety concerns that you choose to ignore.

You can ignore the TRUTH but it's not about the battery formulation... it's about the amount of current the battery can source. I don't care if it's alkaline, lead acid, nickel metal hydride, etc.

If the battery can source 10's of Ampere's of current then there is a fire hazard and safety concerns... not necessarily in the battery itself but with wiring, handling, metal tools, short circuits, etc.

You yourself stated: "...the self noise is likely to be very minimal from a battery that can deliver 60Amps continuously & 120Amps instantaneously.

That kind of current can be a fire hazard, period."""

You are totally in De-Nile...




 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 14:46:26
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46309
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 If you took the time to understand the context and content of my posts (or had an understanding of jr. high school electricity), you will see that these were not an indictment of the battery itself.

Where do I say anything about cellphone batteries?

Where do I say that the LiFEPO4 battery has the potential for catching fire or exploding?

It is the current that one has to be aware of. Do you get it?

How are my safety warnings 'crapping' on this thread? There are obvious safety concerns worth mentioning.

The only thread 'crapping' going on here is your carrying on like a lunatic.




 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 14:53:17
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000




 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 14:55:48
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46309
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
I should have expected another YouTube video as that's what you normally resort to when you're at a loss.


 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 15:03:34
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 2667
Location: NY
Joined: July 31, 2000
 It is a waste of precious time dealing with one as inane as you...

Keep posting and try and differentiate between the battery exploding and the crap around it exploding. Like this conversation matters... smh... Did you miss pre-K today???

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 15:39:47
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46309
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
...differentiate between the battery exploding and the crap around it exploding...

Oh so you DO finally get it!


 

RE: Maybe you should read the rules, posted on November 29, 2015 at 15:50:39
chopper87@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 942
Joined: September 2, 2001
 Well, I am going to try this battery tweak with my Regen and already have received the batteries. I was not distracted by the banter between the two or three differing parties on the previous thread topic. People have and will always have differing opinions and or just do not see things the same way. I/we are discerning enough to take what we need/want from threads and discard the rest. I don't give a rat's arse if these guys fight about the Regen upgrades viability on these applicable threads. I'll pick a side once a try the darned thing for myself. I can't wait to call someone a big fat liar.

LA

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 15:51:04
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 I didn't see you correcting Kenzo when he posted about batteries exploding in reply to your "Inmates: play at your own risk"

I noticed you selectively quoted my my reply to Kenzo's post "Not the same battery chemistry - no risk of fire or battery explosion with LiFEPO4"

You extracted this "no risk of fire or battery explosion with LiFEPO4" completely changing its context & meaning to suit your agenda & make it appear I was claiming something I wasn't.

So maybe you should stop playing forum games - asking others "Do you finally get it"?

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 16:58:57
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hi,
I have used lipos for ten years ( cplay-times.julilsoundcard etc.) with good results but some inconveniences in maintenance. Tricklecharging with 3.4 volt was never a problem and so they last for years.
I use the regen before a xmos usb to i2s converter and must say that here the lipo's do a stunning change in SQ. The difference is much bigger than changing a dac - for example schiit yggdrasil and a 40$ Honkong NOS-DAC.
My other components are fed with ultracaps 3000-9000F which can be used like batteries and i am going to compare the lipos with the ultracaps, which can be charged a million of times and have very low ESR to.They can be tricklecharged too whithout degradation of SQ .
So i am a happy camper and i don't understand discussions with people who never tried the modification and contribute nothing substantial to this simple but extraordinary effective modification.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 17:45:18
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Yes, sonics, thanks for posting your experience with liPo batteries & the sonic improvements they bring.

Have you tried this way of powering the Regen with the Lipo?

Ultracaps are great but they are limited to 2.7V so need 2 in series to be able to handle higher voltages. However I have just discovered a new ultracapacitor - a Lithium ion ultracapacitor which can handle 3.7V - they are a new type of device - called an energy storage device - half way between a battery & a capacitor

I agree with your other sentiments too

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 29, 2015 at 19:21:49
ahendler
Audiophile

Posts: 5151
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Joined: January 24, 2003
 John Swenson early on recommended the following power supply for the Regen
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-DC9V-Hifi-Linear-power-supply-Regulated-PSU-for-DAC-amp-digital-display-/141503525422?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f244722e
I bought one and have used it ever since on my Regan. It made a significant upgrade to the sound of the Regen
Alan

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 29, 2015 at 22:35:08
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hi ,
thats right,2 ultracaps must be used in serie to reach 3,3 V but i use
2 x 2 parallel to reach lower ESR.
I can compare lipos with ultracaps after holidays in 2 weeks.

 

So why hasn't J kenny accused you of, posted on November 30, 2015 at 00:45:36
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 thread jacking when you posted 'irrelevant' information on 5V power into your Regen? What personality does this represent?

A manufacturer builds his line of products with LiFePO4 power. He advocates powering someone else's product with an unprotected battery supply. I pointed out that his bypasses the unit's thermal and overcurrent cutout features. He accuses me of 'Speculation' 'thread jacking' as though he owns the discussion. There are scores of posts with repeats amongst 3 inmates. What does this do to the forum, which used to discuss subjects based on some degree of knowledge about analog and digital electronics and products?

 

The big difference, posted on November 30, 2015 at 00:50:39
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 is simply that a battery powered product is designed as a system. In this case, it is advocated that inmates bypass the inbuilt safety features of the regulator and go for 'unprotected sex'.

Coming from another manufacturer who so aggressively attack others with comments on this, and other related aspects, this is unethical.

 

Since you make cables, posted on November 30, 2015 at 00:58:21
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 Try a 10 cm or less cable for the Regen . This removes a degree of harshness from the 'sold' connector which is a pain anyway. I use Wireworld Starlight and get good results.

Also try the Regen into a iUSB Power into your dac.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 01:03:42
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 I can only conclude that it is product related sensitively that drives all these compulsive responses to every post that is made in response to 'his' thread.

There is no attempt by the poster to address any of the points raised about battery powering the Regen.



 

What makes it wrong, posted on November 30, 2015 at 03:49:11
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 has been the resolute defense he puts up in wanting to use a battery 'bareback' on someone else's product, in parallel with an active charger - something that he doesn't seem to do on at least one of his products, and something that most with knowledge of electronics will not do except in a controlled and qualified manner.

This is fine, provided that he accepts with grace others' views on it, and alternatives to getting good sound quality results. It is not ok when he treats this forum and its inmates like those in CA.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 08:10:15
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46309
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 Where's my "agenda"? Safety?

All I did was warn that high currents can be a safety hazard regardless of battery type. Did you miss that part? And then the whole thread goes to crap.


 

So why does jkeny not complain, posted on November 30, 2015 at 08:49:40
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 about you deviating from the subject of 'his' thread?

 

RE: So why does jkeny not complain, posted on November 30, 2015 at 08:56:28
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 So why does jkeny not complain about you deviating from the subject of 'his' thread?

Given that you and Abe Collins have both only recently returned from enforced sabbaticals, might it not be politic for the two of you to give us all a little break? You've made your point several times on each of two threads. Trust me, we get it.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 09:01:53
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 You seem to have a wider agenda - you already brought up the topic of safety on the other thread - now you come to a thread about "listening impressions" & suggest that as a manufacturer, there's conflict of interest in what I post.

Why not post this on the other thread - why pollute this one?

Yourself & Fmak seem to be trying very hard to bury these threads in "noise" or maybe you're just looking for attention - I don't know what your motivation is?

 

RE: So why hasn't J kenny accused you of, posted on November 30, 2015 at 09:22:57
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 "So why hasn't J kenny accused you of threadjacking"

Simple - you have serially posted off topic comments ("noise") on both threads - you obviously have some overwhelming need which drives you to this.

In order to not bury useful information in "noise" most people request that a thread be kept on topic, within reason.

You & some others patently ignore such requests, for whatever reason & infiltrated the first thread & now the second thread with your serial posting "noise"

Not only are you polluting here but I see you posting more misinformation on Computeraudiophile thread:

"Buy a 5200 mAh 7.4v LiPO with a smart charger and an explosion proof bag (for charging), connect it to the Regen, and you have loads of play hours. Play the dac thru the Regen into an iFi usb power, and the sound is even better!"

"Using a battery and connecting it with a mediocre charger to power the 3.3V input of the usb chip in the Regen makes little immediate sense for the general audiophile. First you are powering the chip with a high current device with no protection. Second, you are assuming that a battery supply (with a charger) doesn't need bypassing with the
coupling. It seems that Jkeny doesn't even do it with his mainstream modified M2Tech dac"

More rubbish & misinformation from you - what do you know about any of my DACs? You really do have some pathological need!

 

LOL, posted on November 30, 2015 at 10:20:05
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 nt

 

RE: LOL, posted on November 30, 2015 at 11:08:22
racerxnet
Audiophile

Posts: 72
Joined: July 24, 2008
 Fmak,

take your thread crapping with you to another forum, thread, or to your doctor. You're obnoxious attitude and behavior shows what a fragile ego you have. We all benefit more when you are banned or on your meds. As simple as I have spelled this out to you, I doubt you will "get" it.

MAK

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 11:31:27
AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46309
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
  Since: February 2, 2002
 all the little nit follow-ups are producing more 'noise' than any post that I initiated.

I'll leave you with a couple thoughts. Any additional 'noise' is not my responsibility.

1) A Manufacturer comes here touting the benefits of a specific battery and charger implementation making bold claims of superior sonics over just about any power supply out there.... the same battery and charger implementation used in his very own products that he sells from a weblink provided in his Asylum (M)anufacturer's Profile. Is this bordering on conflict of interest? Others can be the judge of that.

2) The same Manufacturer suggests using a battery that in his own words, can source 60 - 120 Ampere's. I suggest safety precautions including a fuse. How is that an "agenda" ?




 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 11:36:53
racerxnet
Audiophile

Posts: 72
Joined: July 24, 2008
 You made your point several times Abe. Drop it and move on if you don't like the presentation of his post. You have been banned because of the antagonistic approach to getting a response regarding your "concerns".

MAK

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 11:47:04
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 "I'll leave you with a couple thoughts."

Thank you - please do leave!

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 17:33:56
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 John Swenson has just indicated (on computer audiophile) that using the onboard regulator to trickle charge the battery is a no no and that keeping the battery at 3.6v is not recommended due to potential to lower chip life on the Regen. So a question I have for all the EE's here is what resistor value do I need to lower the steady state fully charged level to 3.3 v? My charger is a typical lifepo4 charger. I lost the spec sheet but I assume they are all very similar.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 18:35:37
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hi theob,
Its no problem to tricklecharge the lipos with 3.3 or 3.4 Volt. You arrive at 80% of max.charge and i did it for years without damage.
I use a variable linear lab-supply at 3,3 and max.3A to tricklecharge the lipos of the regen.
I don't think that SQ will benefit from the audiophile qualities of a normal batteriecharger with all of his elrctronical charging controls.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 21:31:35
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 JS uses his knowledge to frame his answer, unlike those who propose powering schemes that not intrinsically sound.

You can find out the current consumption of the chip whilst working (which may not be constant), and add a resistor. This will affect the chargers's output impedance. You can get a constant current semiconductor and fit it, but these are complicated steps to take.

If you must, then a 3.3 V precision regulator such as those sold by Twisted Pair will do. It may just be possible to power one from 3.6V, and you can search form suppliers like DIYinHK etc.

But really, you should try other schemes of powering the Regen to see if they offer the improvements you desire. I have posted suggestiond here and elsewhere, and I get very good sound from them - the best so far being a 7.4V LiPO powering the Regen, which in turn feeds an iFi USB power into the dac. This is with the 'solid connectorjunked and a self made 10cm Wireworld Starlight Silver cable with replacing it.



 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 30, 2015 at 21:58:02
Tims
Audiophile

Posts: 20
Joined: March 1, 2002
 Hi Jkeny

Interested to try this on my regen. Do you have a link (ebay or elsewhere?) for a reasonably priced source to buy LiFePo4 batteries?

Also, how do you trickle charge the batteries when in place - do you use a LiFePo4 battery charger and run wires (from the charger) to the battery?

Thanks

 

RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak, posted on November 30, 2015 at 23:13:33
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 I have edited my first post to include these details

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on November 30, 2015 at 23:39:08
jkeny
Manufacturer

Posts: 502
Joined: May 4, 2001
 Theob, here's what I recommend you do
- put a switch between the battery & the Regen so that you can disconnect it from the Regen
- use a 3.3V regulated supply permanently connected & powered on - to trickle charge the battery at all times
- keep your LiFePO4 battery charger for use in recharging the battery if you ever let it go low in charge. This could happen if you don't have the trickle charger connected/powered & you are running the Regen off the battery. If you are going to store it away for a period of time then disconnect the battery from the unpowered charger.

If you do let the battery go low, disconnect it from the Regen via the switch & recharge with the battery charger.

There's no point in trying to lower the output of the battery charger to 3.3V - it won't work - LiFePo4 battery chargers can output any voltage when in the initial constant current stage of recharging & only shift to 3.6V when they go into constant voltage mode at the end of charging.

BTW, your profile doesn't accept emails so I can't respond to your emails to me

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on December 1, 2015 at 01:33:27
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Sounds reasonable.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on December 1, 2015 at 08:03:45
chopper87@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 942
Joined: September 2, 2001
 Sonics,

I am thoroughly intrigued by your potential capacitor use in this environment. And I am anxious to read about your direct comparisons between the batteries. I hope that you are planning to do this via the currently discussed Regen modification?

Lance A

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on December 1, 2015 at 08:30:53
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 13158
Location: Kent
Joined: June 1, 2002
 http://audiobyte.net/products/hydra-zpm

Note that the quoted noise is no better than a superregulator.

 

+1..., posted on December 1, 2015 at 11:11:23
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 Agree completely that fmak has every right to comment and his comments should be well-taken, especially as they involve the risky proposition of modding equipment which he a bit of experience in.

Not too worried that a manufacturer would post modification procedures he is not offering to the public, if that's the case here.

OTOH, if he is going to suggest a modification of someone else's product, then it should be an open thread where ANYONE should feel free to comment on the wisdom of said modification.

Sure wish my REGEN would arrive so I can join the fun!!!




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on December 1, 2015 at 12:12:17
sonics
Audiophile

Posts: 116
Joined: July 6, 2008
 Hi lance.
I am in egypt for two weeks and i do the test after holidays.
I also intent to test a good linear PS with chokes and large conventional capacitors after the regens regulator.The effect of the lipos ( i use 6 parallel to lower the ESR ) is spectacular and the only reason to try the other alternatives are the little problems with the maintenance of the lipos.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on December 1, 2015 at 13:31:06
theob
Audiophile

Posts: 3180
Location: ann arbor michigan
Joined: November 4, 2000
 Can you send me a link to the charger you use?

 

I believe batteries most relevant to this discussion....., posted on December 1, 2015 at 14:06:45
Beef Guinness Cutie Pie
Audiophile

Posts: 136
Joined: December 29, 2011
 .... are those in his hearing aids.

 

OTOH, when Abe and fmak agree on something..., posted on December 1, 2015 at 14:22:36
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 perhaps we might all do well to pay attention.




First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

RE: OTOH, when Abe and fmak agree on something..., posted on December 1, 2015 at 14:53:10
Ryelands
Audiophile

Posts: 1867
Location: Scotland
Joined: January 9, 2009
 OTOH, when Abe and fmak agree on something ... perhaps we might all do well to pay attention.

Indeed we might. If you find their exchanges worthwhile and want to focus on them, I promise not to create diversions.

 

RE: You're absolutely right, posted on December 1, 2015 at 19:26:08
chopper87@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 942
Joined: September 2, 2001
 Hello Sonics. I do love me some Egypt. Sooooooo much stunning History of humanity. Any way, I will be awaiting the results of your comparative evaluations. Makes my tired just thinking about all of the work involved to get it all done and compared.

Lance A

 

FMAK, take a couple of weeks off and cool down a bit..., posted on December 1, 2015 at 19:45:33
Chris Garrett
Bored Member

Posts: 16675
Location: Miami, Florida
Joined: October 9, 1999
Contributor
  Since: June 19, 2000
 and remember, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Take off until 12/15/15 and perhaps we'll see you back here in a more personable mood?

Chris



 

That would be my first choice as well..., posted on December 3, 2015 at 09:04:59
Ivan303
Audiophile

Posts: 48887
Location: Cadiere d'azur FRANCE - Santa Fe, NM
Joined: February 26, 2001
 OK, perhaps try a TeraDak U9VA Linear Power Supply w/5V USB output if one's DAC required it?

Seem to recall that the Audio-GD Amanero board is powered by a liner supply inside of the DAC.


First they came for the dumb-asses
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a dumb-ass

 

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