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Squeezebox + DAC suggestions

98.223.11.100
Posted on July 21, 2012 at 09:45:00
Audio Snob
Audiophile

Posts: 384
Joined: April 5, 2000
 I'm thinking about dipping my toes into computer audio. From what I read on this forum, the squeezebox is an easy intoduction.

I currently listen to mostly Redbook CDs through my stock Sony SCD-777es CD/SACD player and am pleased with its performance.

Could you kind folks recommend a DAC to go with the Sqeezebox that might equal the Redbook performance of my stock Sony SCD-777es? As a first stab at computer audio I'm not looking for perfection or audio nirvana. I'm hoping that for a modest investment I can equal what I have now with the Sony and learn a little along the way.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

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RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 21, 2012 at 09:53:07
bullethead
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Contributor
  Since: December 0, 0000
 Bel Canto DAC 2.5

 

more info please?, posted on July 21, 2012 at 10:14:43
bwb
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Posts: 1396
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Contributor
  Since: January 4, 2013
 .

Do you have a budget?

Are you married to the squeezebox as a server?

Is USB or another connection from the computer to DAC an option.

Do you have a budget?

What computer will you be using?

Do you have a budget?



.

 

RE: more info please?, posted on July 21, 2012 at 10:16:31
Dynobot
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Posts: 2703
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
 Doesn't matter what computer he is using.

Esp from your POV....

I do wonder why people never post a budget.



Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

I'm really sick of you taking shots at me., posted on July 21, 2012 at 10:39:29
bwb
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 .

"Esp from your POV...."

I never, ever said a computer doesn't matter, but you latched on to one thing I said, blew it completely out of context, and then take every opportunity you can to throw it in my face.

Please either find the post where I said computers don't matter or stop your childish taunts.

I thought you said you were going to start acting like an adult?




.

 

The point is, posted on July 21, 2012 at 10:46:14
Dynobot
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Posts: 2703
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
 from your POV how is the computer type relevant??

How will it affect the decision to the Dac choice and how will it affect sound?

3-simple questions.



Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

Calm Down...., posted on July 21, 2012 at 11:04:29
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2703
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
 The your POV was actually a light hearted jesture rather than an attack.

Me thinks someone is a bit sensative.


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

The point is this, it matters for many reasons, posted on July 21, 2012 at 11:10:23
bwb
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  Since: January 4, 2013
 .

For one thing the type of computer determines what software he can choose from.

For another there are many here who preach how much the hardware affects the sound.

For another if someone was going to recommend a toslink connection like an Altmann DAC (a good choice BTW) you would want to have a computer with an optical output, or if a firewire DAC then that would rule out many computers.

Depending on how his room is set up and what other equipment he has it might make a difference whether he has a laptop or a desktop or a tablet.

If planning to use a laptop then I would also recommend making sure it does not have a noisy fan as many do.






The type of computer most definitely makes a difference.
.





.

 

Read the Original Post...., posted on July 21, 2012 at 11:17:07
Dynobot
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Posts: 2703
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
 He is using a Squeezebox Touch and is looking for a Dac to use with it.

Only one software.

I think or hope you can see that your posts are off topic.

Just in case....he won't be connecting a Dac to a computer, hes going to connect it to the SB-Touch.


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 21, 2012 at 12:01:11
LewinskiH01
Audiophile

Posts: 205
Joined: December 7, 2008
 Audio Snob,

I think that's a great idea. I actually did the same thing: 18 months ago got the Touch to dip my toe in those waters. Great buy!! I have since learned how to use it, got acquainted with computer audio, found ways to optimize it for free (like Soundcheck Toolbox 3.0), and now I'm looking at adding a DAC. I have my eye on a Metrum Octave. Is it the best ever to be invented? No, but it's well reviewed, non-oversampling, simply 2 inputs, good power supply, and under $1k.

What Steve (Audioengr) tips at is his new Synchro-Mesh, which is intended to be used between the Touch and a DAC and to reclock (de-jitter) the signal from the Touch. Looks like a great product to me, but one to buy after I have a DAC.

You will need a computer where to install the server software for the Touch. If you can wire with a CAT 5 or 7 cable to the Touch, the better, otherwise wireless usually works fine, especially if you don't start tweaking the Touch. But if your computer is in your listening room, you could avoid the Touch altogether, unless you want it as a user interface.

Enjoy the ride!

 

Suggestion, posted on July 21, 2012 at 12:50:38
mls-stl
Audiophile

Posts: 3053
Location: St. Louis
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 I'd recommend buying only the SB Touch at this time and play with it for a while. That would give you a chance to get familiar with the process and general tenor of computer audio without making a big investment.

Some people end up deciding that old fashioned CD playback is a better fit.

If you've decided computer playback approach works for you after your trial period, then worry about search for a DAC if you want a further improvement in sound quality.

 

More Info, posted on July 21, 2012 at 12:57:18
Audio Snob
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Posts: 384
Joined: April 5, 2000
 There was a request for more/budget info.

Criteria:

1. Get started with computer audio without busting my head or my budget right out of the gate.

2. DAC sufficient to equal sound of Sony SCD-777es. I'd like to equal the 777es, but since this is my first time out don't want to spend more that necessary to equal it. Improvemnts can come later. So I'm willing to spend what it takes to get up to the 777 but don't see the added value of moving beyond that the first time out.

I'm not opposed to a $1,500-2000 DAC, but I was hoping that I might get 777 equivalet sound at less than $1,000 (the 777 is now 12 years old, so I'm guessing current equivalent technology should be less expensive).

3. Also since this is a "starter" attempt, I plan to just hook into my existing home computer network system. Not interested at this point of investing in some fire-breathing dedicated tricked-out computer or dedicated components. I just want to get started with a sound close to what I have with the 777.

Am I expecting too much from a simple squeezebox + DAC setup?

 

RE: Suggestion, posted on July 21, 2012 at 13:08:29
Audio Snob
Audiophile

Posts: 384
Joined: April 5, 2000
 The squeeze box is on order with the intent of following your suggestions. However, I also suspect that curiosity will likely get a grip on me and I'll want to know just how much a DAC might change things. So, I guess that since I've committed to the squeezebox I was thinking about the next step (perhaps prematurely). As you say once I get the squeezebox in hand I may not care for it. But computer audio appears to be the future and I thought I should get started.

 

RE: Read the Original Post.... I did read it and it did not read like he already had one., posted on July 21, 2012 at 13:34:52
bwb
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Posts: 1396
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Contributor
  Since: January 4, 2013
 .

That is why I asked him if he was married to the idea of that box, which I think is not the best way to go.

If he is not then my questions and points are valid.

If he is not and he answers my questions then he will get better suggestions than if he did not.



.

 

RE: More Info, posted on July 21, 2012 at 13:47:36
telackey
Audiophile

Posts: 229
Location: Oklahoma
Joined: January 15, 2006
 "Am I expecting too much from a simple squeezebox + DAC setup?"

No, I don't think so. Quite the opposite, it may very well surpass your goal.

 

RE: Calm Down....Such, posted on July 21, 2012 at 13:53:52
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 9178
Joined: June 1, 2002
 inmates only think of themselves as an injured party whilst doing their best to get at others.

This is a prime example.

 

RE: Read the Original Post.... I did read it and it did not read like he already had one., posted on July 21, 2012 at 13:54:25
Audio Snob
Audiophile

Posts: 384
Joined: April 5, 2000
 Squeezebox is on order.

I'm not wedded to the squeezebox. But I am wedded to the idea of keeping things simple. From what I've read the squeezebox is an easy entry point. At $250 I consider the squeezebox an experiment. If there is a simple better alternative, I'm open. It's just that many of the computer based system discussions on this board get awfully complex pretty quickly. For a first attempt I'm trying to keep it simple.

 

SB is just as good or better than your standard computer front-end...money well spent...nt, posted on July 21, 2012 at 14:01:50
Dynobot
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Posts: 2703
Location: USA
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 .
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: Suggestion, posted on July 21, 2012 at 14:04:52
mls-stl
Audiophile

Posts: 3053
Location: St. Louis
Joined: April 11, 2006
 I think the odds are very good that you'll be pleased with the move. I kicked the CD player out of my system over 2 years ago and haven't looked back. (CDs are still a great way to acquire new music and listen in the car, but I don't use them in my home system anymore.)

Listening to some Scott Joplin right now and have nothing that needs to be changed.

 

minor correction, posted on July 21, 2012 at 15:19:39
mls-stl
Audiophile

Posts: 3053
Location: St. Louis
Joined: April 11, 2006
 >> Are you married to the squeezebox as a server?

The SB Touch is not a "server". It is a network player. Except if used only as an internet radio, for most purposes it needs a computer on the backend to function as a server.

The nice thing about computer audio is that your music is available to any future computer player system one chooses. The only really important thing in one's initial steps is to rip your CDs to a lossless format.

You can use a SB Touch (or any other system) to your heart's content and maintain complete flexibility to switch to a different system at any future point.

Computer audio has a pretty good learning curve and too many people make the mistake of investing in a complicated and sometimes expensive setup before they've spent anytime experimenting with things.

 

RE: Calm Down....Such, posted on July 21, 2012 at 16:30:05
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2703
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
 Yeah always the victim, but will feel justified to attack others.

Seen it a million times...


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

in the interest of maintaining forum civility, this post contains the response your unprovoked taunt deserves., posted on July 21, 2012 at 16:48:24
bwb
Audiophile

Posts: 1396
Joined: July 25, 2011
Contributor
  Since: January 4, 2013
 .





.

 

I dont see anything,,,nt, posted on July 21, 2012 at 16:54:34
Dynobot
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Posts: 2703
Location: USA
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 ,
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

think about it /nt, posted on July 21, 2012 at 17:07:58
bwb
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Posts: 1396
Joined: July 25, 2011
Contributor
  Since: January 4, 2013
 .

 

RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 21, 2012 at 17:28:12
Mike Mc
 Back to the OP. I believe it does take a reasonable DAC, and a reduction in jitter between it and the SB to give a similar performance to a good one box cd player.

I have heard (no pun etc) using at least a 1.5m coax between the two can help reduce reflections and reduce jitter. Steve from EA could perhaps comment here.

It does take a bit of effort to equal a one box player, but it can be done.

Mick

 

While you are looking, posted on July 21, 2012 at 17:31:46
G Squared
Audiophile

Posts: 2198
Location: Washington, DC Metro Area
Joined: November 16, 2004
 Check out Scott Nixon's DACs. Great performers for low bucks.

 

About that minimum 1.5 meter digital cable thing..., posted on July 21, 2012 at 17:58:32
willkayakforfood
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Posts: 822
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Contributor
  Since: December 24, 2011
 It's likely I don't yet have enough experience to express a definitive opinion on this, but I've recently gone back to using a few DACs, so I'm using a few new digital cables as well. Currently, I'm pretty happy with DH Labs "Silver Sonic" digital cables - both coax and USB. The coax (runs between CDP and DAC in main system) and one of the USB cables (from laptop to DAC) are both 1.5 meters long, yet the third, most recently acquired cable (also DH Labs USB) is just 0.5 meter.

When I was considering the third cable, it was for my little portable headphone DAC/amp, and if I could, I wanted to avoid dealing with such a long cable if I really didn't have to. I wrote to someone at DH labs, and asked what they thought about the minimum 1.5 meter digital cable recommendation. He told me that during the development of their digital cable, they did extensive testing on the cable length/reflections issue, and concluded there was no need for a minimum length of 1.5 meters.

I went ahead and got a 0.5 meter digital USB cable, and so far, it seems to sound just fine. If however, it ends up melting my brain, I'll be sure to let you know. :)

 

RE: While you are looking, posted on July 21, 2012 at 18:19:37
Audio Snob
Audiophile

Posts: 384
Joined: April 5, 2000
 Looks interesting. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

RE: About that minimum 1.5 meter digital cable thing..., posted on July 21, 2012 at 18:55:49
Mike Mc
 Your brain will be toast my friend! I run two DH Labs 1.5s between the SB, a Firestone Bravo reclocker and a Havana DAC. I doubt my system is revealing enough to show any, very subtle, distinctions.

But you know the way the (audiophile) mind works! Those 1.5s let me rest easy. Sort of pathetic, I know, but with the Wiggles' "Big Red Car" on repeat, for the kids, listening fatigue is an issue in these parts!

Mick

 

RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 21, 2012 at 20:10:23
dvb
Audiophile

Posts: 2314
Location: Vancouver
Joined: August 18, 2000
 I'm guessing my Marantz SA-8001 is similar to your Sony 777.

I've been using the Cambridge Audio DacMagic as the DAC with my computer audio system, which delivers the music either through an Airport Express or hardwired from my MacBook.

The DacMagic isn't as good as the Marantz, but it is very satisfying, and was quite inexpensive ($400?) when I bought it a few years ago. I've found it a good entry to computer audio.

Today, if I were testing the waters, I'd probably get the Schiit Bifrost, at about $400.00 as an inexpensive entry DAC. I haven't heard it, but it has an enthusiastic following here. But, now that I've had the DacMagic, I'm tempted to move up a price-point, and try the Schiit Gungnir, at about $800.00. (Unfortunate names, but probably good sound.)

 

RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 21, 2012 at 20:45:46
telackey
Audiophile

Posts: 229
Location: Oklahoma
Joined: January 15, 2006
 I also have a SA-8001 which I prefer (slightly) to my DacMagic equivalent PS DLIII.

I bought the SA-8001 back in the day and added the SB Touch/DLIII later. If I were doing it from scratch now, I would think strongly about the SB Touch + the the SA-8004. Supposedly every bit the equal of the SA-8001, plus it has a digital input to its DAC section.

 

RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 21, 2012 at 21:33:20
telackey
Audiophile

Posts: 229
Location: Oklahoma
Joined: January 15, 2006
 "DacMagic equivalent PS DLIII."

Roughly equivalent price, that is. I haven't heard a DacMagic to compare the sound.

 

RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 21, 2012 at 22:47:55
dvb
Audiophile

Posts: 2314
Location: Vancouver
Joined: August 18, 2000
 I agree - I am seriously thinking about upgrading the 8001 to the 8004 to get access to the DAC.

The Schiit products would be for my office system.

 

Don't be too hasty with a DAC purchase., posted on July 22, 2012 at 00:46:30
MikeCh
Audiophile

Posts: 589
Joined: November 16, 2002
 I think you may find the AKM 4420 DAC used in the SB touch to be more than capable, especially when compared to what's in your CDP.

 

Will do, posted on July 22, 2012 at 06:32:05
Audio Snob
Audiophile

Posts: 384
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 If the squeezebox alone will equal my 777 I'll be a very happy camper.

 

RE: Will do, posted on July 22, 2012 at 08:11:23
SBGK
Audiophile

Posts: 180
Joined: March 22, 2012
 no chance it will equal the performance without numerous tweaks. It's an average music player out of the box.

It is more convenient than a cd player though.

 

Try before you buy..., posted on July 22, 2012 at 09:46:06
Archimago
Audiophile

Posts: 595
Joined: January 18, 2002
 Although I had the 777 in my system years ago that was before I got my SB system so cannot compare directly.

Try this:
1. Connect both the SB and CDP to the same preamp so you can switch quickly between them.

2. Play some pink noise and measure the volume with an SPL meter (like the Radio Shack one).

3. Use the SB digital volume control to approximate the output from the CDP - this will handicap the SB a little but generally insignificant.

4. Play the same tune on the CDP and same time through the SB.

5. Flip between the 2 inputs and compare the sound.

Can you tell a difference in the tone/smoothness/soundstage? If so and the 777 is clearly better, then by all means get a better DAC. Otherwise, fuggetaboutit...

(You might be surprised by the outcome of the test ;-)

-------
Archimago's Musings: A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

 

RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 22, 2012 at 09:47:26
sunnysal
Audiophile

Posts: 833
Location: Central America
Joined: May 27, 2000
Contributor
  Since: August 6, 2000
 take your time listening to the SBT compared with your CD player to be clear about what you feel is lacking or underperforming before investing in a DAC, there are a lot of choices out there, they have quite differing sonic signatures and so you should know what sound improvements you are looking for before starting that acquisition process. besides you may find that the SBT sounds just fine (and better than the 777) as it is. Make sure your source materials is as good as possible (lossless formats) to make the comparison fair with the 777. let us know how it goes. regards, Tony
Jean-Francois Lessard 2A3 PP amp
Marantz 7T Preamp
Klipschorns w/ALK xovers
Squeezebox Touch
Asus netbook running itunes and LMS feeding
MSB link DACIII w24/96k
MSB digital director
Technics M85 Cassette

 

Thanks...., posted on July 22, 2012 at 16:47:33
Audio Snob
Audiophile

Posts: 384
Joined: April 5, 2000
 ...for the explicit quidance. We'll se how it goes.

 

You may find that a replacement power supply, posted on July 23, 2012 at 07:09:35
LWR
Audiophile

Posts: 57829
Location: The woods
Joined: August 12, 2003
 for the Touch will improve things quite a bit as well.

 

RE: Squeezebox + DAC suggestions, posted on July 24, 2012 at 12:33:32
telackey
Audiophile

Posts: 229
Location: Oklahoma
Joined: January 15, 2006
 I had thought about that too. In fact after enjoying listening to my SA8001 in particular the other day, I went ahead and pulled the trigger. My SA8004 should arrive Thursday. Can't wait.

Good as the DLIII is (very nice sounding piece that is well reviewed) I just prefer the Marantz sound. My DLIII will be going up for sale shortly.

 

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