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More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly

70.181.190.237

Posted on July 4, 2012 at 14:08:47
Mercman
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The Audioquest DragonFly has been previously discussed in this and other forums. It is a USB DAC that is based on the ESS Sabre and is the size of a USB flash drive. The DragonFly has a software analog volume control that is tied to the system wide volume control. It has a 3.5mm stereo output jack that will drive most headphones and long cables due to its low impedance. The DragonFly supports up to 96/24. What is particulary nice about this product is that it uses the Wavelength Streamlength USB interface that is rock stable with OSX and Windows. Gordon Rankin designed the DAC for Audioquest.

I connected the output of the DragonFly to my Stax SRM007 TII amp that drove Stax SR007 Omega II headphones. I felt that this offered a significant improvement in sound quality over the direct output Sennheiser HD 600 headphones I had previously listened to.

The sound from the DragonFly was very good in that there was no hardness or brightness. The sound was balanced with decent bass. I was impressed with the midrange and high end detail I was hearing from such an inexpensive DAC. I listened using 88.2/24 and 96/24 files with Decibel. / OSX Lion. It is a very musical sounding DAC.

Besides being a great product for travel purposes, it will make a wonderful DAC to test the waters with computer audio. For those thinking of trying computer audio and not interested in spending a great deal of money, this $250 USB DAC is damn good.

 

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The Audioquest DragonFly has been previously discussed in this and other forums., posted on July 4, 2012 at 14:16:24
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2787
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
Yes it has been discussed here, you just posted a Thread on it 5 days ago. Did you forget??

What prompted a repeat thread?


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: The Audioquest DragonFly has been previously discussed in this and other forums., posted on July 4, 2012 at 14:18:01
Mercman
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I wanted to try it with something better than my Sennheiser phones. I just got the adapter yesterday and wanted to let inmates know how it sounded on a more revealing system.

 

RE: The Audioquest DragonFly has been previously discussed in this and other forums., posted on July 4, 2012 at 17:26:43
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 1921
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
Thanks for your reports.

Bill

my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

Thanks for you posts on this: Was the adapter a standard, posted on July 5, 2012 at 10:12:41
Sordidman
Audiophile

Posts: 12005
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
AQ stereo mini to dual RCA-type?

Thanks again,




"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Thanks for you posts on this: Was the adapter a standard, posted on July 5, 2012 at 11:22:00
Mercman
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Yes, just a basic Audioquest - 3.5mm Mini-Plug-to-2-RCA Adapter

 

Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 5, 2012 at 22:52:56
Sumflow
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: On the road
Joined: June 7, 2012

Thanks for your summery on the Dragonfly.
~~~
Hide it ~ nothing looks better..

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 05:26:44
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007

Just learned that it is 24/96 (USB Audio Class 1 ??)only.


At 250$ this is not state of the art. Especially if you consider what
the Sabre is capable of.

The Sabre can go up2 384khz and can also run DSD.

Bus power supply is not the first choice either.

IMO another little toy to forget about.

 

Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 05:43:20
Dynobot
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Posts: 2787
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Just because they don't use USB 2.0 for 24/192 files.

24/96 sounds the same via USB 1 & 2, so for the vast majority of people who are not 'needing' to stream 24/192 only to some headphones USB 1 is fine.

BTW it does not work with iPad + CCK.



Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 06:40:36
Mercman
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AudioQuest is no stranger to the state-of-the-art. The DragonFly was never meant to be that type of product. They wanted a USB DAC that was portable and sounded decent. If you actually had experience listening to one, you would understand what I'm talking about.

The key word is "listening"

 

details please, posted on July 6, 2012 at 08:23:34
Joe Murphy Jr
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Posts: 4400
Joined: February 3, 2001
What is it about the iPad that won't allow it to work with the Dragonfly? Shouldn't the Dragonfly show up as a USB audio device just like other USB DACs?

By the way, thanks for the info re: Jellybean (below). From what I've read, it looks like Jellybean will have support for USB host and USB device. And if you haven't seen it yet, there are pictures of Samsung's Galaxy S III feeding a USB DAC via its USB output. The Samsung is running ICS (4.0), not Jellybean (4.1), so USB audio should work with devices running or scheduled for ICS upgrades. That, of course, means that the manufacturer needs to enable USB audio when they write their device code (stock 4.0 won't auto-enable USB audio -- the manufacturer must add it to the build).

Hopefully Toshiba is working on a Jellybean update for their THRiVE and will bypass the yet-to-be-delivered Ice Cream Sandwhich which they have pushed back to Q3/Q4 2012 or they will at least add USB audio to their ICS build.

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 08:26:48
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007

It still is 250$.

And the pity is that the DAC would allow much higher sample rates.
There is no extra cost.

No idea what drove them to stay at USB 1.

I'm sure an XMOS+Sabre wouldn't have killed the budget. (Maybe the Wavelength stuff killed it ;) )

Let see. Maybe M2Tech comes with such a device sooner or later.

Did yo try to put a USB Hub in between the CCK and the DAC. My Audio-GD
works this way. With Pluplayer DLNA you should be able to stream even
24/96.

 

RE: details please, posted on July 6, 2012 at 10:51:27
Mercman
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From Gordon:

"The headphone amplifier is 125mw unit so it's pretty hefty for such a small size. Because of the power required for the amplifier/line + analog volume control we could not keep the current draw below the iPad minimum for use with the Camera Connection kit."

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 10:53:46
Mercman
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"No idea what drove them to stay at USB 1."

Perhaps Audioquest wanted to keep things simple with no special drivers for Windows.

 

RE: details please, posted on July 6, 2012 at 10:56:32
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2787
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
Actually I don't have an iPad but Jude over at Headfi tested it.


Re: Jude at Head-Fi

"...unfortunately the iPad doesn't kick out enough juice through the Camera Connection Kit to power the Dragonfly up."

Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 10:59:52
Dynobot
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Posts: 2787
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Joined: December 8, 2011
Don't know about special drivers, USB 2.0 is plug-in-play for every OS. No need to go the special driver route...UNLESS you want more then 24/96. Which is enough reason to avoid special drivers all in itself. I think they did the right thing...even if it saved .10 cents per/unit the savings will add up in the long run.


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:02:19
Mercman
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"No need to go the special driver route...UNLESS you want more then 24/96."

That's the point I was trying make.

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:03:24
Dynobot
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Posts: 2787
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A small XMOS/Sabre unit like the Dragonfly would be great esp. if they allowed it to be externally powered.

Dragonfly might just serve to pave the inroads for other manufacturers willing to take it a step higher.

imo they can leave out the Wavelength feature, more gimmick than anything.


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:06:11
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2787
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>>>That's the point I was trying make.


:-)


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:10:21
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
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XMOS does it driverless: See Hiface II a 140$ device.

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:26:09
Mercman
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Yes, but this is S/PDIF output. AudioQuest wanted a dac that could drive headphones Or an amp directly. I understand if the DragonFly is not for you.

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:27:12
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007

There are so many devices out there. With that feature list they won't impress many people.

Meanwhile DACs are commodity products. The recipe of how to built a good sounding DAC is no rocket science anymore. (I'm really wondering how Gordon still manages to sell his stuff.)


Highest Fidelity sound on a mobile device I consider somewhat irrelevant.

I do own two Sabre DACs by myself. If they've done a good job - I know what to expect soundwise.

They could have done better: 150$ for the current device. 200$ incl. 24/384 and maybe 250$ incl. DSD. An external PS option would have been a nice add-on.


 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:33:03
Mercman
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If you could bring all of this out for $250, what's stopping you?

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 11:51:21
Mercman
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"I do own two Sabre DACs by myself. If they've done a good job - I know what to expect soundwise."

You are one impressive guy Klaus. I have listened to several Sabre based DACs and they did sound quite different to me. But I guess the essential point is if they've done a good job.

 

"At 250$ this is not state of the art" ...??????, posted on July 6, 2012 at 12:53:17
bwb
.

Are you saying that it should be state of the art for $250, or that it should do more for $250, or?

24/96 only? I can't imagine there a very many people looking for a portable DAC that want to play 384K or DSD files.

I also would not want to lug around and hook up a separate power supply for a portable DAC.

If it sounds as good as reported I think they did a remarkable job of hitting their target market at an attractive price point.

 

RE: Forget about??, posted on July 6, 2012 at 13:23:23
Tony Lauck
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That will certainly keep things simple. No drivers, no switch to flip between USB version number or (in the case of my DAC) no choice of USB connectors to use on the back of the DAC).

A low priced unit doesn't leave a lot of money in the business plan for customer support.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

A low priced unit doesn't leave a lot of money in the business plan for customer support., posted on July 6, 2012 at 13:47:23
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2787
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
Sure doesn't but thats the price you pay to enter a hot market. Slim profit margins in exchange for a slice of the market share.

I think this little thingy will have robust sales world-wide due to its price point and because it can ride off the already good reputaion of the Sabre Dac chip.

An example of this can be seen with Google's Nexus 7 and the Kindle Fire. Both of which have slim to no profit margins, but whos only purpose is to grab some market share and increase overall profit and exposure of their product base.

=============
From News:

What TechInsights has figured is that the production cost on the Nexus 7 is $184 USD per tablet. Thatís roughly a $15 USD profit per device for Google and ASUS. Amazon noted earlier this year that they were basically losing money on each tablet just so they could send out a machine that would be a perfect home for their media Ė and of course this model did indeed work for a while, the Kindle Fire being second only to the iPad earlier this year as well
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

forgot about the power draw, posted on July 6, 2012 at 13:49:45
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4400
Joined: February 3, 2001
I know there were lots of people who were ticked off when Apple cut the amount of juice that the iPad could output. I believe it's now down to 100mW, right?

I can't remember what the THRiVE can output, but it's quite a bit more than 100mW. I know it will power a portable hard drive because I have mine connected to a 500GB Seagate GoFlex for headphone/late night listening.

 

RE: forgot about the power draw, posted on July 6, 2012 at 14:12:18
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2787
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
>>>I know there were lots of people who were ticked off when Apple cut the amount of juice that the iPad could output. I believe it's now down to 100mW, right?


Apparently the new iPad outputs 20mA down from 100mA.

Consumers are always at the mercy of Apple. This includes any app.




Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

I know I'm probably going to regret asking, but why the relentless Apple bashing?, posted on July 6, 2012 at 14:27:28
bwb
.

We're "at the mercy" of all manufacturers if you want to use that type of hyperbole.

Yes, you get the apps from them but there are currently over 200,000 available for the iPad so it's not like they are choking off the supply.

Windows users are at the mercy of Microsoft.

Kindle users are at the mercy of Barnes and Noble.

Sick people are at the mercy of the drug companies.

And before you accuse me of being an Apple promoter I have several computers and devices running a variety of operating systems so I'm not in the cult. I don't think they have a monopoly in anything they sell and have a small fraction of most markets so you have choices just like you do with almost anything you buy. Why do you feel the need to attack this one company?


.

 

RE: forgot about the power draw, posted on July 6, 2012 at 14:28:54
Tony Lauck
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"Consumers are always at the mercy of Apple. This includes any app."

Absolutely. That's why I don't buy their products, but even that doesn't provide an escape hatch, because I support a web site with customers who have Apple products and I get to vicariously "enjoy" Apple problems.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: forgot about the power draw, posted on July 6, 2012 at 14:40:02
bwb
.

Are you not at the mercy of whoever you buy from?

Does the computer manufacturer you bought from build it to your specifications? Does Bill Gates consult you when Microsoft designs their operating systems and other programs.

>

 

RE: I know I'm probably going to regret asking, but why the relentless Apple bashing?, posted on July 6, 2012 at 14:46:04
Tony Lauck
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When M$ was in a position to lock in their customers some years back, they got their share of (deserved) bashing. As to the other companies you mentioned , this is a forum on computer audio. There are lots of other forums where the other companies can and do get bashed.

Apple wouldn't take these hits if it were an exemplary company led by an exemplary leader. A brief skim over Steve Job's biography should make the reason why people hate Apple pretty clear.


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: forgot about the power draw, posted on July 6, 2012 at 14:55:32
Tony Lauck
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"Are you not at the mercy of whoever you buy from?"

Of course, at least to some extent. This is why one wants to patronize ethical companies and do one's part to shame other companies so they will reform, or failing that, drive them from the marketplace.


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: I know I'm probably going to regret asking, but why the relentless Apple bashing?, posted on July 6, 2012 at 15:27:07
bwb
.

I think not. I bet most people couldn't tell you much about Apple's business practices or Jobs'.


You may dislike them for that reason but all I hear around here is how they screwed up things by promoting MP3s. In my mind equivalent to blaming fast food restaurants for the obesity epidemic.

I did poke around the net looking for some info on him and read through the Wikipedia bio, but I didn't find much that backs up your claims.. I admit I've never followed his career or the business practices of Apple very closely so what you say may be true.

I'm keeping my iPad though.

.

.

 

RE: forgot about the power draw, posted on July 6, 2012 at 15:32:21
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2787
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
>>>This is why one wants to patronize ethical companies and do one's part to shame other companies so they will reform, or failing that, drive them from the marketplace.

Thats right, of course we might not be able to drive Apple from the market place but people can and should patronize companies that are sensitive to consumers.

Customer service means everything. Apple seems to be of the mindset that they can and will do what ever they want. Hence no Flac support, no Flash support and from what ChannelD 'PureMusic' says that "Apple removed the ability to send audio in nonmixable integer stream mode in OS X 10.7."

Apples iTunes is horrible and only serves to market its products.



Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: forgot about the power draw, posted on July 6, 2012 at 16:18:48
bwb
.

I never understood the whining about FLAC since files formats are easily converted.

Flash isn't dead but it is dying and will soon be a thing of the past. Looks like they were ahead of the curve on that one but I do admit it irritates me I can't view some web sites on my iPad.

iTunes is a very powerful database that works wonderfully for managing a music library.. and it is free. Yes, they use it as a front to sell things... so what?

You are correct about integer support but from what PM also tells us it really isn't needed. My DAC doesn't support it in any version of OSx and sounds great so I could care less about it.

Apple's customer service is actually very good. I've gotten very good free phone support and you can get free support at one of their stores. They do charge for phone support after some period of time but that is not unusual.



.

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 17:03:29
Posts: 2
Location: Colorado
Joined: July 6, 2012
Hi Gang-

Boy this thread got heated. The DragonFly was built with the intent that it would be simple to use and require no additional drivers. This is part of the reason we decided to limit the sampling rate to 96K. In order to go beyond that Windows users would have to download a third party driver. This isn't something we think that we want to send the majority of our customers off to do.
Additionally, we decided to use the TAS 1020B and not the XMOSS chip because of size and power consumption. The 1020B is limited to 96K.

Other elements of the design mandate were that the unit had to operate from bus power, sound great, and be simple to use. adding external power supplies would have been a no-go. It would have ruined the intent of the product which is to bring great sound to a wide audience.

DragonFly will not work with any iOS device because it draws too much power. Keep in mind we are working on a device specifically for iOS and for Android called HummingBird and BumbleBee (respectively). These devices will also be asynchronous USB. They will also have rechargeable batteries built in so that they will not draw too much from the iOS and Droids. They should be available sometime early next year. That's all I can tell you for now.


Best regards,

Steve Silberman
AudioQuest

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 17:10:03
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2787
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
Thanks for the info....I take it that the new products will also use the Sabre chip.

Anyways good job and great product.


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 17:37:52
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 1921
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
Steve, Thanks for the clear information. The DragonFly sounds like a great product to reach a lot of music lowers / audiophiles.

> Boy this thread got heated.

Seems to happen to most threads on this forum now.

> Keep in mind we are working on a device specifically for iOS
> and for Android called HummingBird and BumbleBee (respectively).

Perhaps you could make one with a big linear power supply for home use and call it BigBird. Then one especially for members of this forum called AngryBird.

Bill


my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

the company's efforts are appreciated, posted on July 6, 2012 at 18:28:59
Joe Murphy Jr
Audiophile

Posts: 4400
Joined: February 3, 2001
I read the comment earlier today about the iPad not working due to power draw and it occurred to me that the DragonFly isn't that much bigger than a 9V battery. And here you go mentioning a future battery powered device...

Anyway, props go to Audioquest for bringing the DragonFly and future iOS/Android products to this market. I, for one, appreciate the effort and any new offerings in this area.

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 6, 2012 at 19:35:38
Mercman
Reviewer

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What I found most fascinating about the DragonFly is that it is extremely musical and not just a little portable dac. It is obviously not an attempt at state-of-the-art performance, but an easy to use device that actually honors the music.

But to be honest, I really loved the glow of the DragonFly's sample rate indicator.

 

BigBird and AngryBird. Awesome! ROTFLMAO. nt, posted on July 6, 2012 at 20:37:27
JoshT
Audiophile

Posts: 5004
Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Joined: July 4, 2000
nt
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."

 

To me, it's perfectly understandable that people get annoyed with..., posted on July 6, 2012 at 22:42:46
andy_c
Audiophile

Posts: 1390
Joined: June 2, 2007
Apple shills.

 

Value for the Money, posted on July 7, 2012 at 00:39:40
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007
Hi Steve.

I know you got plenty of pocket money to play with. However.

At 199$ you can get e.g. a Sumoh Full Digital Amp (instead if seperate DAC and AMP with associated seperation issues) Add to it a 140$ Hiface II or a 170$ Audio GD DI II with reclocker.

That's what I call value for the money.

Of course you can run your Dragonfly into a chinese 100$ Class-D Amp. Which might turn out to be a nice sounding setup too.

Since I'm a DIY minded person and an engineer by profession, I'm a bit more flexible when it comes to heating up the soldering iron.
I got my DIY Full Digital amp for 50$ and currently run a Audio-GD interface. This setup replaces pretty my well tweaked Sabre/AMP combos.

To me the recent past, the present and future is full digital.

Enjoy.

P.S: But let see. I perhaps order a Dragonfly for testing just to get an idea how it sounds. But even if it sounds as good as you suggest, I wouldn't buy it because of beforementioned lack of features.

 

RE: Value for the Money, posted on July 7, 2012 at 04:02:15
Mercman
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Thanks for you suggestions Klaus. The point of my post was that you don't have to spend a lot of money to have enjoyable sound. You have confirmed this with your suggestions.


 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 7, 2012 at 07:07:46
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007
1. Nothing got heated up. Just some of the weak spots based on the communicated feature
set of your device were brought to the table.
This is an open forum btw..
"Heat" obviously is what you guys feel when reading those comments.
Good to see that you feel the heat.

2. The TAS1020B is an outdated device. Period.
The limiations are known since years.
Beside that it requires serious tweaking of the transport to get away
from PC originated distortions. You'll find an estimated 4-5 years
record about it over here at AA.

3. With e.g. state-of -the-art XMOS you could have run up2 96khz
without driver.
If you want 192 you'd need a driver on Windows only. Though you could
still run 96khz without it. You wouldn't loose anything.
On OSX and Linux you don't need a driver to run 192.
The limitation comes with your choice of interface chip.
BTW: A similar sized device -- Hiface II -- is running XMOS nowadays.

4. If you consider battery supplies for iOS devices. Why not on the
Dragonfly?? I'm not aware of any USB device which wouldn't have
shown serious improvements when taken away from bus power.
You'll find numerous posts about that here and elsewhere.
The best option obviously is a battery supply. We've seen that
on many implementations. There are also many devices which allow
bus and external power. Technically this is absolutely no problem.
On your device a micro-jack for an optional external 5V supply
would have been sufficant.

5. iPads usually work if you put a powered USB-HUB in between.
I made several DAC devices working this way. I'd be surprised if
the Dragonfly wouldn't work this way.

Consider these kind of discussions as constructive feedback
towards the community.
In these kind of marketing threads, there's IMO a need to discuss Pro's AND Con's.


For sure there'll be a V2 of Dragonfly. And for sure there'll be some people who'll buy your V1 device...
...even after such a HOT discussion.

Good luck.



 

However, the vast majority of potential customers couldn't care less about your concerns, posted on July 7, 2012 at 08:05:20
bwb
.

When you are segmenting the market to determine what features to offer your customers you have to look at what they want and need, not what a few people who hang out on internet forums want. It looks to me like AQ made the following decisions and I agree with them.

2. The vast majority of potential customers don't care what is inside it and wouldn't understand if you told them.

3. The vast majority of potential customers don't care about anything above CD quality and many will use it only with MP3.

4. The vast majority of potential customers don't want to deal with the hassle of a battery or external supply.

You are obviously not part of their target market but that doesn't mean they made a mistake. It would appear they decided that the mix of features they are offering will appeal to their target market and that adding what you want would only increases cost and would actually make it less appealing.


.

 

RE: "I'm keeping my iPad though", posted on July 7, 2012 at 08:07:08
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 5906
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
Contributor
  Since:
January 16, 2010
I'm keeping mine too, even though I'm not fond of Apple, the company, the products, the stores, the fans, especially the fans, the hype, the concept...

So why am I "sending this from my iPad"?

Because I'm driven by what things can do, what value they deliver to me, not advertising or the corporation's goodness or badness. For me over the years PC's, starting with the very first one, have delivered the goods while Apples haven't, but the goods I need and value are of not necessarily congruent with those of other users. For instance Apples did what teachers needed with far less strain than PCs. They were bombarded with advertising to make them believe that, but it was also true. Now we all use little Lisas, Jobs, and more accurately Xerox, were right.

I bought this for HW reasons, I was tired of fan and hd failures on laptops and also wanted to try the tablet format and this was the cheapest thing in the store that had reasonable capabilities. But what I really want is XP on a tablet. Maybe next go-round?

Rick

 

the vast majority of potential customers just want ..., posted on July 7, 2012 at 09:30:58
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 1921
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
convenient cheap access to music they choose. Hi-res. is not relevant to them.

There are threads on a number of audio forums about the Dragonfly. I'd say it is getting lots of interest and will do well.

Good post, bwb. Don't use up your store of sanity on this forum, though.

Bill



my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

RE: However, the vast majority of potential customers couldn't care less about your concerns, posted on July 7, 2012 at 10:38:40
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007
Look.

"Vast majority" needs to be defined first.

Vast majority is a whatever market share of a certain market segment.

Such a product tries to address those people which do care
about a good quality sound from a PC, actually from a portable PC.

If I'd be marketing manager at AQ it would have been too risky for me to go after this particular segment. It is flooded with devices. And the AQ differentiators are almost neglectable.

As we learned today there will be another product launchned "next year" which addresses iOS and comes with battery supply.
It is obviously known to those guys at AQ that the Dragonfly is not the final answer to the adresssable market and demands out there. It's their first shot.

I mean. It's so obvious to anybody who understands a little bit about marketing.

I btw do consider it a wrong move by AQ to come up with a seperate iOS product next year. I'm pretty sure that the market wants "a one size fits all" product.
Next year they'll tell the Dragonfly customers to buy that new iOS audio interface, which comes with certain features that I mentioned were lacking today.

I could imagine that some people might feel a little fooled about this. They suddenly need to buy and carry two AQ devices. But. Who cares about another 250$. 250$ - it's pocket money. Not worth discussing.


Enjoy.


 

RE: However, the vast majority of potential customers couldn't care less about your concerns, posted on July 7, 2012 at 10:53:26
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 1921
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005

I see lots of companies bringing out products like the DragonFly. I visited Amazon this morning and got the suggestions shown in the image.

HRT, Centrance and other companies have already brought out variants for laptops and iDevices. You may feel the market is over-crowded but those companies don't.

Audioengine and Peachtree are other companies targeting a wider set of customers than the audiophiles that post here. They seem to be having success.

Bill

my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

interesting, so you think AQ understands very little about marketing?, posted on July 7, 2012 at 13:57:29
bwb
.

"I mean. It's so obvious to anybody who understands a little bit about marketing."

I know a little bit.... and I really can't imagine the ability to play 192K and DSD files or the type of chip it uses are determining dimensions for portable DAC shoppers in the $250 range, but you obviously think you know more about AQs target market than they do so it has become a dead horse.

I won't beat it anymore.

,

 

RE: However, the vast majority of potential customers couldn't care less about your concerns, posted on July 7, 2012 at 14:26:53
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 1580
Joined: July 31, 2000
"I btw do consider it a wrong move by AQ to come up with a seperate iOS product next year. I'm pretty sure that the market wants "a one size fits all" product. "

You are so correct!!! That is why they also only make one cable for everyone!!! Why should we need anymore... LOL

They know exactly what thy are doing, sell a well designed, very good sounding product for a fair price. IMO the pedigree of it places it above others in the market segment. That is why they did it.

 

RE: Value for the Money, posted on July 7, 2012 at 14:40:56
Bob_C
Audiophile

Posts: 1580
Joined: July 31, 2000
"At 199$ you can get e.g. a Sumoh Full Digital Amp (instead if seperate DAC and AMP with associated seperation issues) Add to it a 140$ Hiface II or a 170$ Audio GD DI II with reclocker."

Absolutely... Perfect for someone to carry in their pocket with their headphones to connect to their laptop. Amazing...

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 7, 2012 at 15:08:42
Posts: 2
Location: Colorado
Joined: July 6, 2012
We couldn't use the Xmoss chip in this design as it draws too much power and the footprint is larger then what we would allow based on the industrial design objective.
There isn't a plan to make a V2 anytime soon as we (being AudioQuest and Gordon Rankin) do not feel the need to go beyond 96k on this particular product.
I guess if I explain the motivation behind this product the final result might make more sense.
For years I worked at Ayre Acoustics. It was one of the most amazing professional periods in my life. I learned more from Charlie an Ariel then I could have learned anywhere else. The products that Ayre turned out are amazing. The only problem (for me) was that none of my friends outside of hi-end could relate to them. I mean if you think about just the entry level Ayre system, an AX-7e and a QB-9, and then add in reasonable cables and some good full-range speakers its a 10k to 12k system. That's a lot of money! Even a system we all think of as "entry-level" is just so hard for most people to justify.
I really want to make products that a larger audience can relate to, and at the same time make something that I, or any of my audiophile friends would enjoy listening through. Bill Low, the founder and owner of AudioQuest (and everyone else at AudioQuest for that matter) has been extremely supportive of this idea. I'd say Bill may be more stoked about it then I am!
Prior to shipping the DragonFly Joe Harley, Shane Buettner, and myself spent a lot of time visiting dealers and distributors all over the world. In fact, at the beginning of the year I spent three weeks in Asia visiting distributors with a one-off sample of the final design. We wanted to be sure that this would be a product that could stand up to scrutiny. Everyone that listened to it gave us feedback we got was very positive.
The components we chose inside were all for good reason. right out of the gate we're limited to the 5v output from a USB port. So, we had to be judicious and economical with power consumption. The 1020B really fit the bill. We also didn't want supplementary battery supplies for this particular product. We wanted it to be completely plug-and-play. No fuss. Also, we had a very specific footprint and industrial design in mind. Again, the 1020B fit into this objective.
The bigger picture is this; there are a ton of people out there who've ripped their CD's into iTunes, they stream music from Spotify and Mog and YouTube, and they're having fun. This is a great product for anyone living in this world. But its also a great sounding, reasonably priced product for anyone aspiring to build an affordable system, or for anyone (like me) that likes having a supplemental DAC for taking on the road or using in the office with a small integrated amp and a pair of killer desktop speakers. It is meant to be a fun, affordable, and a good sounding device. I think we accomplished all of this.
Now I can't spill all of the beans but I'll tell you this - DragonFly isn't the last product of this ilk we're going to make. Gordon and the gang at AudioQuest have a bunch of designs on the table and in the works. All of the products will be small, portable, and potent for their size.
If you're curious find a local dealer (we have over 600) who has one in stock and borrow it overnight. You might like it, you might love it, you might just think its so-so, but at least you'll have first hand experience.

Best regards,

Steve Silberman
AudioQuest

 

Good Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 7, 2012 at 17:34:30
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 1921
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
Thanks for the good explanation of the philosophy. You brought a personal element to the explanation that I enjoyed reading.

You may never get a sale from soundchekk but I'm sure you will do well otherwise.

---
I know Charles Hansen only from forum posts and some email conversations but I think highly of him.

Bill


my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

RE: However, the vast majority of potential customers couldn't care less about your concerns, posted on July 7, 2012 at 19:49:00
Interesting take on some of the products you listed Bill.

 

RE: However, the vast majority of potential customers couldn't care less about your concerns, posted on July 7, 2012 at 20:13:10
Old Listener
Audiophile

Posts: 1921
Location: SF Bay area
Joined: February 6, 2005
Yes, I watched the video.

I'm happy to have good choices at various price levels. Then I have to decide how much I need to spend to satisfy my needs.

Bill

my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 7, 2012 at 23:25:55
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 10362
Joined: June 1, 2002
'This is part of the reason we decided to limit the sampling rate to 96K. In order to go beyond that Windows users would have to download a third party driver. This isn't something we think that we want to send the majority of our customers off to do.'

Excellent point and one which I have raised several times due to posts here and elsewhere where users get into significant setup difficulties. Other makers, of course, deny that there are any issues.

Are there copyright difficulties for bundling your own software for Windows? This is the answer from other makers and I would buy a Dragon Fly if it would do 24/192.

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 8, 2012 at 02:54:53
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007
Hi Steve.

Nice try. Lot of text.

Bottom line:

1. Plug'n play are all driverless USB audio devices
2. Hiface II gotta a similar footprint and uses XMOS. They even
managed to get a reasonable jack into that device.
3. High Price Ayre and Wavelength devices incl. Streamlenght stuff
will face a pretty tough future.
4. Spotfiy and mp3 users will be happy with the iOS devices output
quality. Those devices are not even supported.
5. Taking design decisions based on dealer feedback I consider a pretty
risky undertaking. My experience with dealers is that the majority
doesn't really know what they are doing, when it comes to PC based
audio. What counts for them is the margin vs. sales effort.
A product like a Dragonfly is a typical online product. It doesn't need a dealer-chain. You'd better ask the crowd about their priorities.
You could have saved thousands of $ for your extensive trips around
the world and put the device into the 150$ league instead.
And beside that community feedback would have been more valuable.
Not to forget you seem to ignore that there is competition out there.
6. IMO your typical target group owns already 2 audio devices in
average. You really need to explain why they need to buy a 3rd one.


I do think you got my point. Obviously all issues I brought up have been
brought up while you were designing the product. I just mentioned the basic stuff of course. I didn't even go into into detail about internal
Sabre clocking schemes ( synchronous vs. asychronous etc.) asf. The Sabre DAC is the most discussed and tweaked DAC in the DIY audio world since I guess 3-4 years.
There are no real secrets anymore about what makes that DAC sound good or average.

My point is not to critizise your device, when it comes to sound quality.
People like Mercman are kind of trustworthy (always with a marketing flavor around their posts of course).

I think I made clear that I do have a feeling that you guys lack certain features what the addressed market segment might feel to be mandatory for a device at 250$.


Anyhow. Good luck with your product.

I might borrow one device. That's what I usually do, to get an idea about the devices potential. What might prevent me to do so is the mini-jack - which requires a quality cable or a quality adapter. And of course the lack of iPad support.

Cheers

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 8, 2012 at 05:50:49
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 12061
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
Contributor
  Since:
February 24, 2009
"1. Plug'n play are all driverless USB audio devices"

There are no "driverless" devices. All have drivers. The only issue is whether those drivers come bundled with a particular version of a particular operating system.

"3. High Price Ayre and Wavelength devices incl. Streamlenght stuff will face a pretty tough future."

HIgh Price DACs exist to provide higher quality audio at a price. They are higher cost for good reason, and it isn't primarily the chips. Whether they are "cost effective" depends on many factors, including the size of the customer's budget. Advancing technology won't change the situation, because the same advanced technology will be available to the higher end manufacturers. Of course it is well known and proven in referred journals that all DACs sound alike. Since the mid 1980's we've all enjoyed "perfect sound forever".

There are benefits that a customer gets from using a specialized driver. The biggest one is the possibility of completely bypassing the baroque audio stack supplied by most operating system vendors. Just for peace of mind this makes a lot of sense to critical listeners who have some degree of technical competence when it comes to computer audio. (That's assuming these drivers are robust. Some are, some are not.)

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 8, 2012 at 06:54:57
Mercman
Reviewer

Posts: 5069
Joined: October 20, 2002
Contributor
  Since:
May 20, 2004
"High Price Ayre and Wavelength devices incl. Streamlenght stuff
will face a pretty tough future:

If anything, their future looks bright as more people are moving over to computer audio. Concerning Wavelength Audio products:

The Cosecant and Crimson are modular designs. Future upgrades are easily performed in-field. As was the case when I moved from a Phillips TDA 1543A to a Wolfson dac chip to an ESS Sabre.

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 8, 2012 at 06:57:37
Mercman
Reviewer

Posts: 5069
Joined: October 20, 2002
Contributor
  Since:
May 20, 2004
"The biggest one is the possibility of completely bypassing the baroque audio stack supplied by most operating system vendors."

Damien has released Beta 1.3.9.4 Audirvana Plus with improved stability for Direct Mode/Integer for OSX Lion. The results of bypassing Core Audio processing are stunning. Best of all, all of this works with the standard OSX USB driver.

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 8, 2012 at 07:12:38
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007

My 50$ Full Digital AMP ( + a little tweaking) sounds better then any of the high price DAC/AMP combos I listened to.

I fully understand your position though.

And I fully understand that people who bought and sell high price stuff
argue against my position. On one hand it's an emotional issue on the other hand it's a business issue.

Enjoy your fancy stuff.

 

I am consistently amused by all of the proclamations here about why something happened., posted on July 8, 2012 at 07:18:13
bwb
.

"The results of bypassing Core Audio processing are stunning"

You can say the latest version of the software is stunning in your system......

You cannot conclusively say why.




.

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 8, 2012 at 07:22:36
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007
Nonsense.

Todays high Price devices highest cost factors go into enclosure, marketing, and dealer margin.
All that can be marketed because the old generation still believes in "audiophile" brands and got plenty of money to play with.

Compared to above the cost associated to the technology itself becomes neglectable.

 

RE: I am consistently amused by all of the proclamations here about why something happened., posted on July 8, 2012 at 07:25:11
Mercman
Reviewer

Posts: 5069
Joined: October 20, 2002
Contributor
  Since:
May 20, 2004
The latest version doesn't sound any different from the previous version. It's just more stable. I was speaking about Direct Mode/Integer for OSX Lion in general terms. I'm sorry I wasn't clear about this.

 

Apple bashing?, posted on July 8, 2012 at 09:27:18
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 10362
Joined: June 1, 2002
There is no real apple bashing. It's just that 4-5 users here are so ultra sensitive (for whatever reasons) that they seemd to have lost all sense of proportion whenever a subject is raised. This has meant that there has been no meaningful discussion, just name calling and in one or two cases, web bullying.

I am almost certain that there are commercial reasons at play, with one inmate constently acting as a surrogate promoter of a group of usb products, and I don't see any comments here about trolling in favour of these products.

 

Dude!, posted on July 8, 2012 at 11:57:34
Gordon Rankin
Manufacturer

Posts: 2752
Joined: June 9, 2000
SC,

Next time we will invite you to the design meetings! Maybe you can share your vast knowledge about digital design :)))

Come on...

First doing the XMOS is far more expensive, second it is not compatible without drivers for Windows.

Second... What is so great about going to 192 or 384? Tell me... I want to know because those are multiples of 2. Going from 16 bits to 24 bits, now there's something to talk about.

Third... current the XMOS draws a ton more current and we already were drawing a bunch for the headphone/line driver.

This is a product designed for the world, not you! The product was designed by me but really AQ uses a team system and everyone had their say. Class 2 was never even brought up. Why... because AQ has 12,000 dealers and to support Windows alone would be horrific.

Fourth DSD... again come on... it takes both either the 9016 or 9018 dac as well as a PLD to switch the data lines and a whole bunch other stuff to make that work. Why so 3 of you can use it with DSD playback????

Really I don't get it... go back to to the SB and leave us alone.

SC, I suggest you sell or take the unit back to were you bought it. Though it does clearly say that it is a 96K capable dac and really then you have no grounds other than you bought it and expected the world for $250.

Others sorry for the rant, but this is just silly!
G.
J. Gordon Rankin

 

RE: More Comments on the Audioquest DragonFly, posted on July 8, 2012 at 20:23:09
Willie The Squid
Audiophile

Posts: 376
Location: Puget Sound, Washington
Joined: November 8, 1999
This place has changed. Been a while since I posted.

Thought I come here and make some quick comments on my Dragonfly experience.

Apple Mac Air 11"; 256 SSD; Pure Music; all CDs downloaded using Apple Lossless;

Dragonfly sounded OK to good into Bose Noise Canceling Headphones, which I only use on planes. I make my first flight on Wednesday; the music will sound better this next flight. But mostly I don't care how it sounds on headphones.

Sounds very good indeed as line level output into a decent stereo system. For $250 and it's lovely minimal size, it allows me to have a VERY portable suburb player with hundred of albums that will input almost any decent audio system. It's not a good as my best stuff at home. It is merely very, very good.

By the by, I did an experiment with a USB3 external hard drive ... put part of my library on it and then played back from the external hard drive. The sound just sucked ... bloated, tone was off, highs didn't sound correct. I don't know if I just didn't implement correctly ... but I suspect that SSD is an important part of the success of the sound that I obtained.

In three years or less, I predict I will be able to take with me a full library of 5,000 CDs and LPs on a small portable computer, with the 'next' generation of a Dragonfly type device, and it will sound spectacular when fed into most any reasonable audio system. That's amazing.

Willie the Squid

 

Leave us alone, posted on July 9, 2012 at 01:47:57
soundchekk
Audiophile

Posts: 1427
Location: Duesseldorf
Joined: July 11, 2007
"Really I don't get it... go back to to the SB and leave us alone."

That would be something. Right!?!?

Thx for letting us know your emotional side. That tells me a lot.

I also appreciate that you let us know that you were the "mastermind"
behind the product. Suddenly all this starts making sense.

"Poor" Mercman plays again a role in that marketing game. (Obviously he is not realizeing this - it's not his intention to do your marketing)

Now you want me "to leave you (us) alone". Hmmh. What's going on here!??!



"Maybe you can share your vast knowledge about digital design.."


For this kind of disussion my knowledge is more than sufficiant.
And I can tell you I wouldn't have accepted your solution, if I'd
been in charge.

Look. You probably pretty much copy/pasted your latest stuff into that product. Most of the building blocks do show your already known design philosophy.
By doing so you ended up with certain - IMO not-state-of-the-art compromises, featurewise. Going this way meant less effort and licensing fees on your side and less design effort on the Audioquest side. That's nothing unusual in todays audio world. Lot's of audio manufactureres buy-in knowledge.

You guys explained why you've taken those feature decisions. That's all fair enough. However. There are alternatives even with XMOS or Tenor you name it in conjunction with different DACs then Sabre+PIC+AMP. But that's not your home turf.

You sold your concept to Audioquest and they accepted - you maybe even partnered up with them. Fair enough.

The market will tell you guys if you were right about your concept. The competiton will tell you if there are really no alternive concepts possible.


And one more word. If you guys intend to do your marketing -- ""leave us alone"" ?? -- over here, I'd strongly recommend to buy banners or open a vendor section. You better stay out of these kind of discussions. You as a manufacturrer don't have to explain anything. You got plenty of fans , who'll take your position, around here. We didn't discuss more detail (pro's and con's) then you'd find in any audio magazine review. I was pretty surprised about this allergic reaction. Obviously I stepped on someones toes.

Just to say it again. My intention was to layout my personal view
about the Dragonfly product from a feature perspective. The whole thing obviously ended up with a slight different spin to it.


Thank you.

P.S: My Squeezebox Project is free of charge and a community effort in some areas and makes - besides thousands other setups - even your high priced products sounding better!!!! ( You'll be surprised - the SBT can talk USB)

Yep. The SBT - A great product at 250$!!!!!! That's what I call value for the money.



 

RE: "I'm keeping my iPad though", posted on July 9, 2012 at 10:00:11
fmak
Audiophile

Posts: 10362
Joined: June 1, 2002
I don't know what you do with it, but I pity those in business who put themselves under pressure thru the compulsive use of iPAD messaging.

Recently, a guy I know emailed me on a matter ten times, when once would have done the trick, simply because he could respond in an instant.

Those who manage their time in a manner which reduces pressure and which enables focus will know what I mean.

 

People have been compulsively messaging for years with all types of portable devices., posted on July 9, 2012 at 12:13:48
bwb
.



Why do you tie your concerns specifically to the iPad?

.

 

iPAD messaging., posted on July 9, 2012 at 12:44:28
Dynobot
Audiophile

Posts: 2787
Location: USA
Joined: December 8, 2011
Not exactly FAST, but its the price you pay for being Cool.!!


Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋

 

RE: "I don't know what you do with it", posted on July 9, 2012 at 13:12:03
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 5906
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
Contributor
  Since:
January 16, 2010
I play with it. It's a toy, an amusement device....

It's quite good at it. Right now I writing to you from the comfort of my couch but for work I use a PC at my desk downstairs surrounded by books and paper.

This works well for reading stuff like AA, the news, PDF files and for looking at maps and such. However typing on it is rather slow but nice and quiet, as it has no moving parts except for five switches.

They were not designed for work and yet they can do some. We had a new HVAC system installed last winter and one of the guys that quoted it was using an iPad. His had a camera and he'd take a picture of the existing stuff and he'd measure and fill in blanks on a form in real time. Ultimately it coughed up the quote and he just copied the numbers to paper and gave it to us. Pretty slick.

Rick





 

"sent from my iXXX", posted on July 9, 2012 at 15:31:15
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 12061
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
Contributor
  Since:
February 24, 2009
The thing that I hate most about the iPAD (or iXXX) is when I get an email with the "Sent from my iPAD". It pisses me off doubly: first that Apple would put their damn advertising in paying customers emails and second, that the asshole sending the email didn't show me the courtesy of removing this gratuitous advertising. The worst part about the advertising is the word "my", the obvious implication being that "I" am cool and you are not (unless you have one of these as well). Obviously, I am not taken in by this hype, but I will admit that the world is full of idiots who are, as witnessed by the price of Apple stock.

Apart from this marketing BS there are functional problems too, problems that I am stuck with on occasion when a download customer can't make these crippled computers work with my website. I have never had this problem with customers using real computers.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

 

Power, posted on July 10, 2012 at 03:22:14
Sumflow
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: On the road
Joined: June 7, 2012

>they allowed it to be externally powered.<

If it were externally powered how could we use it on a plane?
~~~
Hide it ~ nothing looks better..

 

Bypassing the highly ornate and extravagant audio stack, posted on July 14, 2012 at 20:55:46
Sumflow
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: On the road
Joined: June 7, 2012

Mercman:> Audirvana Plus with improved stability for Direct Mode/Integer for OSX Lion.

Doesn't Direct Mode/Integer work on Audirvana Free also?
~~~
Hide it ~ nothing looks better..

 

Streaming into Dragonfly, posted on August 12, 2012 at 00:53:30
Sumflow
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: On the road
Joined: June 7, 2012

How do you configure a iMac with Mt Lion to have streaming data like pandora, hulu, and mog go through the dragonfly instead of using the Apple Dac?
~~~
Hide it ~ nothing looks better..

 

Analog volume controls bypass music players limitations, posted on August 17, 2012 at 12:00:02
Sumflow
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: On the road
Joined: June 7, 2012

Pure Music says:> Itís true: word length (resolution) is reduced with a digital volume control!

Funny thing Audioquest is still telling people to use the digital volume control even though the Dragonfly has an analog volume control designed to by-pass the digital, to preserve full 24-bit resolution and reproduce maximum sound quality.
~~~
Hide it ~ nothing looks better..

 

AudioQuest miss-print, posted on August 20, 2012 at 08:17:04
Sumflow
Audiophile

Posts: 382
Location: On the road
Joined: June 7, 2012
AudioQuest has admitted to a miss-print in the latest version of the owners manual. The volume control in the DragonFly is controlled by the main systemís volume control, not an applicationís (such as iTunes) volume control.

>You would be far better off to use the System Wide volume control which works in the analog domain.~J. Gordon Rankin<
~~~
Hide it ~ nothing looks better..

 

RE: The Audioquest DragonFly has been previously discussed in this and other forums., posted on January 18, 2013 at 00:28:17
Rig_Vader
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: January 18, 2013
Hi,

I currently have the dragonfly on trial. I've tried hooking it up to my Squeezebox Touch, using Triode's Digital Output option. I was hoping for the touch being able to control the volume of the Dragonfly, but this does not seem to happen. This is how I figure that out:

* Full volume setting on the SBT, Dragonfly has notably softer output than my DacMagic connected to the SBT (or the analog output from my TV for that matter). We are talking 50% softer here - my pre-amp volume knob moves from 9->12, to match volume.
* Connecting headphones directly to the output of the Dragon fly:
-PC: Volume control at between 5% and 15% is plenty loud, depending on the track.
-SBT: Volume control at 20%, you can hardly hear anything.

I'm not using a USB hub and I don't know if that would make a difference.

Does anyone know if the SBT is supposed to be able to control the volume control of the Dragonfly? If so, how to make if work?

Thanks

 

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