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3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K

75.70.188.15
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 15:16:00
Wayne1
Audiophile

Posts: 170
Location: Colorado
Joined: October 30, 2000
 "The app should add support of the following to your Squeezebox Touch:
- External USB dacs using either USB audio class 1 or 2 protocols [USB 1 dacs normally state they support up to 96k sample rates, USB 2 dacs normally state up to 192k]
- Support of 176 and 192k playback via the standard digital output"

 

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I was one of the first to try this app from Triode it works but, posted on April 11, 2012 at 15:36:12
Dynobot
 in some cases you will need to purchase a USB highspeed hub and it does not work for ALL asynch Dacs...yet.

At least as of a few weeks ago...

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 11, 2012 at 15:42:06
magiccarpetride
Audiophile

Posts: 1523
Joined: March 31, 2010
 How many people have sizeable library of 192k music?

 

No 192K music? Then use SB-Server to Upsample via Sox....., posted on April 11, 2012 at 15:48:32
Dynobot
 Check the SB-Touch forum, there are instructions on how to modify a .conf file to upsample with Sox.


 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 11, 2012 at 19:44:14
J.Mac
Audiophile

Posts: 3553
Location: Colorado
Joined: November 6, 2002
 What difference does it make? The primary purpose of the app is to enable USB output.

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 11, 2012 at 20:11:52
Mike Mc
 Also lets you switch off analog outputs and use only digital out. It's free, hats off to the developer for putting it out there.

 

A little more detail, posted on April 11, 2012 at 21:01:27
John Swenson
Audiophile

Posts: 2422
Location: No. California
Joined: October 13, 2002
 This is an applet which allows you to select which output to use, including USB and an enhanced S/PDIF. In addition it installs a program which supports the 24 bit format used by USB DACs and installs a new kernel which supports USB Audio Class 2 which enables 176.4 and 192 playback.

Installing the applet installs the new kernel and drivers.

This system will allow you to use asynchronous USB DACs in either class 1 (full speed mode) or class 2 (high speed mode). If you have an async DAC which uses just class 1 (full speed, goes up to 96 max) then you will need a USB 2.0 hub as well. There is a bug in the Touch's hardware which prevents async from working properly in full speed mode, but it works fine in high speed mode. The hub talks to the Touch in high speed mode and to the DAC in full speed mode, thus getting around the bug. If you have a DAC which will work in high speed mode, just use that directly, the hub is not needed. So far I have had very good results with a $5 hub from my local computer store. Nobody has yet found a SQ difference with different hubs.

Note: this does NOT work with USB devices which require their own proprietary driver such as the M2Tech devices, it only works with DACs that use either USB audio class 1 or class 2.

This applet will also work with DACs which are not asynch but do run in 24 bit mode. Internally the Touch uses a 4 byte 24 bit format, but almost all USB DACs which will handle 24 bit data use a 3 byte 24bit format. So even if you had an adaptive mode 24 bit DAC you could not previously use it with the Touch be cause it used a different 24 bit format. This applet will properly convert the internalo format to the one used by the USB DAC.


In addition to USB support Triode (the developer) has figured out how to make the S/PDIF output work at 176.4 and 192, this is included as well. The applet gives you a choice of: the original digital out, new digital out which goes up to 192, and a USB DAC if one is present. If you choose either the new digital out or the USB out the analog and headphone jacks are inoperative, you HAVE to choose the original out in order to turn on the analog outs.

When using a USB DAC or the new output the TOUCH tells the server what sample rates it supports, thus the downsampling which happens in the server will automatically do the right thing.

There are a few limitations:
1) the USB DAC MUST be pluged in and turned on when you boot the Touch, you cannot "hot plug" a USB DAC. To start using a USB DAC the procedure is to unplug power on the Touch, plug in the USB DAC, make sure it's on, plug in the power to the Touch which boots. Select the USB DAC, the Touch will reboot after which it will be connected to the USB DAC. If you turn off or unplug the USB DAC, you must reboot the Touch after the DAC is plugged back in or turned on.

2) when playing 176.4 or 192 files you MUST be streaming FLAC. The file on the DISK can be whatever you want, but you must have the file types set to stream FLAC when playing the file type. This limitation is just for 176.4 and 192 files. For 44.1-96 files you can use whatever streaming format you wish. This applies to both USB and S/PDIF.

This restriction is due to how the server sends sample rate information to the Touch. For FLAC the information is sent in the FLAC stream itself and the spec knows about up to 192. The Touch's FLAC decoder will use the sample rate in the stream to set the sample rate in the Touch. All other streaming formats need a separate command from the server to the Touch to specify the sample rate, and at this point that command only knows about up to 96, so the only way to tell the Touch the stream is at 192 is to use FLAC as the streaming format. This will change at some future point but thats the way it is for now.

This applet from Triode works very well for almost everybody who has tried it (I think there is one DAC that didn't work) and is quite easy to use. If you have a USB DAC and a Touch give it a try.

BTW if you are careful it is possible to use this with Soundcheck's TT3.0, some of the priorities do not work with USB and the default buffer is too small (I like to run it at 5000). For the USB DAC I have found TT3.0 does improve things.

John S.

 

RE: A little more detail, posted on April 12, 2012 at 12:23:25
magiccarpetride
Audiophile

Posts: 1523
Joined: March 31, 2010
 For the USB DAC I have found TT3.0 does improve things.

Haven't tried it with the USB DAC, but can confirm that TT3.0 adds further refinement to the sound I'm now getting when selecting the digital coax output into my DAC. This applet coupled with TT3.0 and some additional tweaks produces the best sound i've ever heard from SBT.

 

A very good thing, posted on April 12, 2012 at 13:50:16
cyclonic
Audiophile

Posts: 178
Location: North
Joined: August 29, 2008
 I have installed this and it is very good indeed. I now rin the SBT output through my V-Link via USB and a hub and into my DAC. The difference on all music is marked. High frequency detail is much much better and the sound stage is bigger. Itere is a quite noticeable improvement in all areas and I am now very satisfied with computer sound. This is a very good thing.

 

RE: A little more detail, posted on April 12, 2012 at 17:00:10
Albert B. Broman
Audiophile

Posts: 740
Location: Pac NW
Joined: July 10, 2000
 Just to add to what John has said, you also must be scratching yer 'nads while wearing boxers. If you are wearing jockeys and only fondling them, the applet won't work.
I'm sorry people, this is all getting to be too much for an old man who just wants to listen to some music.

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 12, 2012 at 22:57:06
HumanMedia
Audiophile

Posts: 421
Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: March 6, 2006
 Chicken and Egg.

Now that I can play 192 to my DAC I will be HDtracks-ing some 192k Jazz.

There are about forty 192k titles at HDtracks.

 

RE: A little more detail, posted on April 12, 2012 at 23:01:05
HumanMedia
Audiophile

Posts: 421
Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: March 6, 2006
 The applet works in more cases than not, and if you are connected by SPDIF its a no-brainer and installed in about 5 screen taps.

(From an old man who is happy to improve his music listening)

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 15, 2012 at 12:55:00
Zombie
Audiophile

Posts: 772
Joined: March 5, 2002
 Can't see the point of using 192 kHz...

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 15, 2012 at 13:13:16
Dynobot
 Some people are stuck in the more-is-better frame of mind.

So higher sample rate must be better.

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 15, 2012 at 22:52:37
Mike Mc
 Like you, Dynobot, I use a Havana Dac (via coax) and a Touch, so the 192k is perhaps not that important. However I like the idea of turning off the analog outputs and utilising only the digital out.

An update has just been released.

As an aside, I enjoyed reading about your modded Havana. I was wondering if any particular tube had taken your fancy, or if you stuck with the stock item?

Cheers

 

Cool, posted on April 16, 2012 at 10:31:39
PaulN
Audiophile

Posts: 1412
Joined: January 13, 2000
 This finally got me off the fence to experiment with high-bit-rate sources. I downloaded Miles Davis' Amandla from HD Tracks and will be comparing with my 44.1/16 rip of the original release. Though I am limited to my Onkyo 876 for decoding, a quick listen appeared to show improvements in image specificity and bass definition; both observed by many as the most obvious benefits of increased bit-depth and sample rates. I look forward to many hours of play. Thanks for the link!

 

Having little experience with the Touch, posted on April 16, 2012 at 10:48:28
PaulN
Audiophile

Posts: 1412
Joined: January 13, 2000
 I am having a few problems troubleshooting the new app. When I stream the new FLC files, it appears that the files are being transcoded by LMS, since the information during playback says that the ~5000 VBR has been reduced to 705. The bit depth and sampling rate still show 24/192k, however. Could this be due to using the Touch wirelessly and not having enough network bandwidth?

 

RE: Having little experience with the Touch, posted on April 16, 2012 at 11:05:03
PaulN
Audiophile

Posts: 1412
Joined: January 13, 2000
 running a network test says that I am good to 6000kbs, so I really can't figure out what is up here. Flac setting are OK and I have no bitrate limits set.

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 16, 2012 at 11:13:41
Dynobot
 >>>>>I was wondering if any particular tube had taken your fancy, or if you stuck with the stock item?

Hi Mike,

Well I tried a bunch of different tubes in the Havana, TungSol, RCA, Raytheon, WE, and an obscure 6h3n Russian tube the ones I like best are RCA and the Russian tube. Funny thing is that the Russian tube is dirt cheap. See my Mini Reviews section [bottom] for details.

 

RE: Having little experience with the Touch, posted on April 16, 2012 at 12:28:02
PaulN
Audiophile

Posts: 1412
Joined: January 13, 2000
 nevermind. found the answer in the slim forums. It appears that I now have 24/192 capability! Woot!

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 16, 2012 at 19:40:37
Mike Mc
 Thanks for the reply. What a comprehensive list of tubes! At the moment I have a WE 396a fitted. Much better than the stock item, but it's been in a fair while and is due for replacement. Perhaps the Russian tube is the way to go.

Thanks again.

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on April 19, 2012 at 16:56:49
Archimago
Audiophile

Posts: 821
Joined: January 18, 2002
 I have exactly 46 24/192 albums, and 8 24/176 albums.

Mostly DVD-A rips and for the 24/176, HRx stuff.

Mostly classical music with the occasional rock/pop. Must admit that I rarely listen to these and honestly have never noticed any difference with 24/96. In fact, some 24/192 I've come across are actually upsampled 24/96 or worse 44kHz upsamples. For those, I happily bring them back to 24/96...



-------
Archimago's Musings: A 'more objective' audiophile blog.

 

RE: 3rd party app for Logitech Touch enables USB output & 192K, posted on July 28, 2012 at 23:41:59
telackey
Audiophile

Posts: 289
Location: Oklahoma
Joined: January 15, 2006
 Normally I'd have said the same thing. I have a good number of SACDs, but that was more about what format the recording I wanted came in than a concerted effort to go hi-res.

Until I heard Channel Classics release of La Cetra at 192kHz. It really did make a difference. That may not be true for all recordings, but for that one it was a noticeable improvement.

 

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