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Battle of the Babes in the Bach Violin Music

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Posted on October 18, 2009 at 11:42:36
Chris from Lafayette
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My wife has had it:

"I've had it with all these babe violinists [you should hear the ironic tone she gets!] trying to out-Bach each other!"

And it IS odd that they all seem to gravitate towards Bach, despite the divergence in the rest of their repertoire.

This post is occasioned by the new Hyperion recording of the Sonatas and Partitas by Alina Ibragimova, whose recording of the Szymanowski violin works (also on Hyperion) was mighty fine. But it seems Ibragimova had to prove her babe violinist credentials by entering the unaccompanied Bach sweepstakes. Based on her Szymanowski recording, I had high hopes for Ibragimova's new Bach set.

Was I ever disappointed!

I don't know what it is, but some otherwise normal violinists are easily influenced by the cult of HIP, and Ibragimova is the most extreme case of this yet. If you listen to her performance of the Chaconne, you will wonder why that work was ever considered a masterpiece: this has to be the most inward, mousy, colorless, and meek performance I have ever heard. It goes without saying that there is no vibrato, but there's also no range, no tone, and no emotion. Bleah! And to add insult to injury, there's not even any PICTORIAL in the Hyperion booklet!

OK, so Ibragimova is securely in last place in the babe-violinist unaccompanied Bach sweepstakes. Also near the bottom is JJ (Janine Jansen - D-minor Partita only) for many of the same faults as Ibragimova - an unconscionable sackcloth and ashes approach.

Things move up quite a bit with Hilary Hahn's single disc (E-major and D-minor Partitas, C-major Sonata). With Hahn's performances, we've finally moved into legitimate areas of expressivity and warmth, unlike the antiseptic, paint-by-the-musicologists'-numbers approach of Ibragimova and JJ.

Then there's Lara St. John's disc of the D-minor Partita and C-major Sonata - you know, the one with the "fun" cover (that's her description!). One of the Amazon customers describes these performances as "bold and powerful" - yup, I would agree. The only time I've seen St. John live, she definitely had horse hair coming off the bow by the end of the performance. (I have not heard St. John's redux recording of the Bach unaccompanied violin music, but I can definitely say that the booklet cover on the new recording is not as "fun"!)

Better still is Lisa (or, as she was known at the time, Elizabeth) Batiashvili's recording of the B-minor Partita. In some ways, Lisa is just the best - what a great tone she gets from her Engleman Stradivarius, and the intellegence behind the playing (the way the music is phrased, etc.) is stunning, and yet does not preclude the evocation of the most intense emotions from this music!

That leaves J-Fi (Julia Fischer). What can I say? I think this recording is destined to become a classic, not only for her virtuosity, but also for Pentatone's hugely impressive engineering (best heard on MC SACD). Listen to how her tone caresses the ear - marvelous! J-Fi has said, "I'm not an 'authentic' player - we are playing for people of the twenty-first century, not the eighteenth century!" Right on - you go, girl!

Anyway, to sum up, there are many excellent babe violinist recordings of the Bach unaccompanied violin music. However, I would stay away from JJ, and, especially, this new one from Ibragimova.

RE: Battle of the Babes in the Bach Violin Music, posted on October 30, 2009 at 14:33:33
jazzedup
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 Among an extremely talented array of violinists these days, give me Hilary Hahn in a landslide. What a great musician! I know this is a Bach thread but don't miss her recording of the Elgar concerto and V Wms "Lark." I've seen her in concert several times. She's always impressive and classy.

RE: Battle of the Babes in the Bach Violin Music, posted on October 19, 2009 at 22:51:53
Todd Krieger
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 Don't let the looks cloud your opinions of the music...........

Right now, the standard for recent violinists IMO is Joseph Lendvay...... But not a babe.......

I've been hoping an "Ayako Uehara of the violin" might surface (a great musician who happens to be a babe), but I'm still waiting............... IMO, the closest thing to this is still Sarah Chang...........


So Todd, have you actually heard these babe violinist recordings?, posted on October 19, 2009 at 23:55:33
Chris from Lafayette
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 And I don't mean just on YouTube. :-)

RE: So Todd, have you actually heard these babe violinist recordings?, posted on October 20, 2009 at 00:33:00
Todd Krieger
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 Most of these recordings are accessible via Rhapsody.com.......... Here's a sampling I sometimes do.......

Lara St. John isn't bad...... There are so many Bach recordings out there........ I end up sampling several performances...... If something to me stands out, I'll mention it..................

(What I sometimes do is search keywords, and listen "blind" by having someone else select the tracks, so I don't know who's playing it.)


On a related topic. . ., posted on October 19, 2009 at 09:44:32
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . does anyone know if J-Fi has had her baby yet? I would guess she must have, because her web site shows concerts lined up in November. Did she marry the father? Who is the father? (She wasn't saying this past June in her SF Chron interview.)

Inquiring minds want to know!

So J. Fi. is an unwed mother., posted on October 19, 2009 at 11:08:12
Paul_A
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 It figures, what with the pictures where she puts on her upscale sexual predator look--the prom queen diva with a string of impoverished beaus to prove it. None of that for me thank you. Give me Wolf Girl any day: she of the back to nature look: pure, virtuous, left of the political center. Yummy!

A strange story about Grimaud connecting her to the Bach violin partitas, posted on October 22, 2009 at 06:39:13
Tadlo
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 A few years ago in Chicago my wife heard Helene Grimaud play the Bussoni piano transcription of the Ciaccona from the second partita. After she finished, she announced that she had been distracted by a buzzing hearing aid in the audience and was not satisfied with her performance. So she played it again!

RE: So J. Fi. is an unwed mother., posted on October 19, 2009 at 12:09:44
Tadlo
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 And given her sexual orientation she is not likely to get pregnant any time soon, and never accidentally. But she plays the piano, not the violin.

Who are you referring to here? nt, posted on October 21, 2009 at 11:44:47
srl1
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 nt

The wolf woman, Helene Grimaud nt., posted on October 21, 2009 at 12:21:02
Tadlo
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 .

It must be more complicated, posted on October 21, 2009 at 18:53:16
srl1
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 I believe that when she lived in Tallahassee her significant other was a male string player (cello?).

photographer (nt), posted on October 22, 2009 at 02:47:38
Paul_A
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Oh THAT Wolf Woman - I didn't get the reference at first - D'oh! [nt], posted on October 21, 2009 at 14:34:13
Chris from Lafayette
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Grimaud, posted on October 21, 2009 at 18:50:55
jimbill
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 She has a nice interview in the extras of the "Note by Note" DVD.

I wasn't aware of her "orientation"..., posted on October 19, 2009 at 14:14:08
Paul_A
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 ...however I did suspect that she was a pianist. Regardless, I was evaluating her approximation to an ideal type--the Platonic ideal of Babeliciousness--and I don't think that anything as base as sexual orientation or instrumental preference enters into that obscure calculus.

RE: I wasn't aware of her "orientation"..., posted on October 19, 2009 at 14:58:44
Tadlo
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 Oh, I agree. I only wanted to assure you that you probably don't have to worry about unwed motherhood reducing the participation in the form of babeliciousness.

Here she is, Miss Violin ..., posted on October 19, 2009 at 08:09:28
Amphissa
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 So this is not really about musical artistry, it is a beauty contest with the talent being playing Bach on violin?

I can hear Bert Parks singing now ...




"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
I wouldn't QUITE describe it that way, posted on October 19, 2009 at 08:27:44
Chris from Lafayette
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 So this is not really about musical artistry, it is a beauty contest with the talent being playing Bach on violin?

If you like, you could think of it as a personal overview of a small cross section of Bach unaccompanied violin performances. The ranking was definitely based on my perception of musical artistry, although the initial selection was of course limited to babe violinists.

RE: I wouldn't QUITE describe it that way, posted on October 19, 2009 at 12:11:41
Tadlo
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 You are vindicated by the absence of Vanessa Mae from your survey.

What about Viktoria Mullova? (nt), posted on October 19, 2009 at 07:16:26
Kas
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 nt

RE: What about Viktoria Mullova? (nt), posted on October 19, 2009 at 07:37:05
Tadlo
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 I like VM's earlier recording of the partitas, but she'll be 40 next month. If HH is pushing the BB (babe boundary), then VM is way PB (post babe).

Viktoria Mullova - A tragic case!, posted on October 19, 2009 at 08:56:33
Chris from Lafayette
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IMHO, Mullova's only decent performance of Bach unaccompanied violin music was on her early Philips disc of unaccompanied music by Bach, Paganini, and Bartok. Coincidentally, this was recorded during the time when she was at her most babeliocious. (Unfortunately, the booklet cover for this CD was hardly flattering.)

It did not take long for her, after she arrived in the West, to become infected by the cult of HIP, which can already be heard in her subsequent Philips disc of the three Bach Partitas. I don't dare listen to her newest recording of the S's and P's (on the Onyx label) - I fear I would go into conniptions!

Babes'n'the hood..., posted on October 18, 2009 at 22:58:12
dave c
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 Lara St. John


Lisa Batiashvili


J-Fi

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I just realized. . ., posted on October 23, 2009 at 14:22:12
Chris from Lafayette
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 . . . Lara St. John's lizard came out better in that picture than Lara herself did!

RE: Battle of the Babes in the Bach Violin Music, posted on October 18, 2009 at 18:27:04
manor999
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 hilary hahn is still tops,and whether whose a babe or not,is bullspit.she has a great discography for the past 15 years or so.from all indications, she is great live as is recorded;so let's put this "babe' spit to rest.
get a life..let's stop this latest flavor test.
jim buck
Whoah!! - No less than the Catholic Church declares HH to be a babe, posted on October 21, 2009 at 15:08:00
Chris from Lafayette
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 Maybe we need to re-think this.

Great Stuff! Thanks for posting this -- nt, posted on October 22, 2009 at 17:09:24
srl1
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 nt

So it's official then, posted on October 18, 2009 at 20:24:07
Chris from Lafayette
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 We'll remove HH from any future discussion of babe violinists - unless I hear persuasive opinions to the contrary. :-)

RE: So it's official then, posted on October 20, 2009 at 13:39:08
Amphissa
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It's official that you are obsessed with young girls who play violin. haha!


"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
Maybe you're right, posted on October 20, 2009 at 14:26:12
Chris from Lafayette
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 Maybe we need to give this babe violinists thing a rest - and turn our attention to babe pianists.

Whut he sed., posted on October 18, 2009 at 20:21:40
Poindexter
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 I like fiddle music, and I have heard the recordings of all the greats that have recorded.  At the risk of waxing hyperbolic, Hilary is the greates fiddler I have heard, bar none, and her Bach is unparalleled. She makes bold artistic decisions, and has the chops to execute them, no matter what they are; the fabled disappearing technique.

Don't equivocate, Poinz, tell us how ya really feel!

Aloha,

Poinz
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Emotional conviction is no guarantee whatsoever that one's perspectives are indeed fully justified... :o) nt., posted on October 19, 2009 at 00:20:54
feet's too big
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 NT.

No doubt, HH is very good, posted on October 18, 2009 at 21:30:14
Chris from Lafayette
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And I've heard her live as well as on recording. However, Lisa and J-Fi are better IMHO - the proof of this for me was really in the Bach Violin Concertos, where both HH and J-Fi choose pretty rapid tempos, but, whereas HH's performances often sound a bit rushed, J-Fi's performances maintain perfect equilibrium and allow for greater expression. IOW, with HH's performances, the rapid tempos seem to be an end in themselves - not so with J-Fi. Of course, this is just IMHO, YMMV and all that.

RE: No doubt, Heifetz was very good, posted on October 19, 2009 at 07:08:05
Tadlo
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 I gotta say I was surprised that HH only made it to the middle of the pack. I have not heard J Fi, but of the several recordings I have of the S and P, including Heifetz, Perlman, Menuhin, and Milstein (I know they are not exactly babes but I mention them as a point of reference), HH is my favorite on the Ciaccone. Technically it is amazing, but what seals it for me is the emotional and spiritual depth, which is totally inexplicable for a 17 year old. The performance has a "rightness" in every phrase that I just haven't heard anywhere else. After I got the CD I listened to it every day for at least a year and only put it aside out of fear, probably irrational, that I would become jaded. But I will check out J Fi on my hi fi.

Perhaps no longer a 'babe' at the age of 80, but ..., posted on October 19, 2009 at 08:20:07
rbolaw
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 check out Wanda Wilkomirska's Bach on Connoisseur Society from 1972.

Wow - WW is 80??? - Hard to believe!, posted on October 19, 2009 at 09:50:25
Chris from Lafayette
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 Tempus fugit!

I've never heard her Bach, but I like her Prokofiev Sonatas with Ann Schein (on a Japanese Connoisseur Society CD that I got near the beginning of the CD era).

You Must Hear the St. John, posted on October 18, 2009 at 16:24:37
srl1
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 Chris,

Of all those you mention, the St. John Six Sonatas and Partitas is "top of the heap" although only by a small margin over the Fischer. Ms. St. John is one of those rare birds whose hype is backed up by striking originality and artistry.

Spencer

You mean St. John's newest release, right?, posted on October 18, 2009 at 16:31:45
Chris from Lafayette
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Yeah - I definitely have to hear that one. An additional attraction is that it's SACD. However, as I mentioned, the booklet cover on her earlier unaccompanied Bach CD was more fun (her word, not mine!).

Yes, that's the one ---- nt, posted on October 18, 2009 at 18:05:25
srl1
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 nt

But does HH really qualify as a Babe?, posted on October 18, 2009 at 14:53:52
Paul_A
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 I don't think that HH can really be counted as a Babe Violist. She ususually looks too serious in photos:



and in this, she seems to follow Simpson's rule of intelligence vs happiness:



When she is caught smiling, she just seems too normal, or goofy, to fit into the pedestal mounted Babe category.
Alas - Babeliociousness is so fleeting, posted on October 18, 2009 at 16:25:40
Chris from Lafayette
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It's possible that HH's babeliocious period has already passed, per the pictures you posted. The same may be true of Lara St. John. The picture above shows HH more as we would all like to remember her.

Whoever the musicians happen to be,..., posted on October 18, 2009 at 12:13:08
feet's too big
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 if they EVER leave the functional impression that they consider themselves and their interpretations as deserving a higher profile than the music they play, then any reputation they may currently possess certainly deserves to be consigned to the trash-can of history...




Bill.
of course men in music NEVER consider themselves more important than the music..., posted on October 18, 2009 at 23:00:36
dave c
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I warned you about drinking that embrocation... :o) nt., posted on October 19, 2009 at 00:16:51
feet's too big
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 NT.

I have been warned about drinking..., posted on October 19, 2009 at 19:38:14
dave c
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 ... smoking, snorting and swallowing all my life.
Maybe there's something in it...
;-)))
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Uh. . . OK, posted on October 18, 2009 at 13:24:37
Chris from Lafayette
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 But speaking of the trash-can of history, didn't Marcus Aurelius say something like, "words that were once current and names that were once famous are now old and dim. For all things soon fade into fable, and complete oblivion buries them. And this is true even for those whose lives glittered like stars. . . What is eternal fame? - complete vanity."?

RE: Uh. . . OK, posted on October 18, 2009 at 14:04:59
feet's too big
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 Some folk clearly deserve the swift oblivion of any reputation they possess rather sooner than others... :o)

Folk attaining widespread acknowledgement simply from the genuine talents they possess surely genuinely deserve any such acknowledgement, whilst I suggest that where folk may primarily exist as "fashion" or "celebrity" icons simply because they happen to be vaguely physically attractive and have some basic competence at playing a musical instrument, I suggest that such folk are likely to be best appreciated by the shallow folk that would always be the natural target audience for presentations of "celebrity" content... :o)




Bill.

but Bill, simply being talented has never been enough, posted on October 18, 2009 at 23:02:08
dave c
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 The right place at the right time.
Knowing the right people.
Grabbing the right opportunity.
History is littered with those who didn't make it IN BUSINESS.
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Perhaps for any "artisans" (I'm being tactful!) of the musical world, that may indeed be the case,...., posted on October 19, 2009 at 00:13:17
feet's too big
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 but the comparative quality in genuine musicianship of the most talented individuals will remain clearly obvious amongst groups of players, making selection to fulfil any other criteria rather "academic" in nature, unless of course, performers themselves do not believe that whatever limited "talent" they possess would be sufficient to successfully challenge other competitors, on audition... :o)


Bill.
"the comparative quality in genuine musicianship"..., posted on October 19, 2009 at 19:36:50
dave c
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 ... is still, in my opinion, not enough to ensure they rise to the top.
A certain single mindedness, egotism or plain bloody mindedness will not go amiss...
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We appear to have significantly different personal perceptions... :o).., posted on October 20, 2009 at 00:47:21
feet's too big
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 Whilst I naturally agree that a personal quiet determination to achieve is always likely to be of benefit for musicians as much as for anyone else, I suggest that the (self-focused and self-absorbed) egotism and the (clearly potentially disruptive) plain bloody-mindedness you offer as implied virtues are likely to be generally viewed as distinct potential personal liabilities for anyone required to function as part of a group... :o)

I also suggest that even where a person is anticipated to perform in a primarily individual role, there would be routine instinctive "human nature" assessment by all surrounding such individuals as to just how far the genuine talents possessed by an individual might compensate for any strong possibility that an individual with "prima donna" tendencies might simply be "a real pain in the arse!" to work with... :o)

The above point naturally refers back to, and reinforces, my earlier suggestion that - except perhaps in perversely vacuous environments such as "celebrity culture" - the level of genuine talent possessed and delivered by an individual will be likely to remain the clear overriding factor as to how much success that individual achieves (or deserves!)... :o)




Bill.
LOL - Yes, you are right! [nt], posted on October 18, 2009 at 17:33:35
Chris from Lafayette
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RE: LOL - Yes, you are right! [nt], posted on October 21, 2009 at 12:22:02
KLechterO78s
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 Forgive me if someone already posted this...but now here's a "Babe" violin player...NOT
http://www.emilieautumn.com/dates.html

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