Planar Speaker Asylum

Welcome! Need support, you got it. Or share you ideas and experiences.

Return to Planar Speaker Asylum

An impactful but inexpensive tweak

24.7.103.234
Posted on November 6, 2009 at 11:03:31
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 SO I find myself sitting around thinking about the audio projects I have to do:

-build 10-20ft balanced ICs to allow me to move my amps and computer and also get rid of the horrid break out cable.
-make shorter speaker cables now that the new amps will be closer
-figure out digital crossovers once the wires are made
-make a diy rack for the components.
-wood frames for the mmgs
-sell my Pass amp somehow to finance subwoofers


And probably a few others.

So all that is fairly easy but can suck up days and days. Much easier to put it off :)

Then I am thinking about PGs theory about the wood frames sucking up vibration from driver that the mdf wouldnt and actually returns the vibrations to the driver. This seems to help a lot in the resolution dept. I remember Jben saying that when he was testing things he had a similar effect by just clamping wood to the driver and mdf frames.

I see the sheets of dynamat sitting in the corner and it hits me. Why not try that and see if it absorbs the vibrations before they get reflected back from the mdf. THats what Dynamat is designed to do, absorb vibrations.

So I do:




WOW. It is a totally different speaker. There is just more resolution. More microdynamics and I am hearing subtle things that I hadnt heard before. More ambiance and just a cleaner sound- the highs especially. The soundstage is alot deeper now and that is a bit shocking because it was always deep.

The tweak is pretty easy to do. Just cut strips of Dynamat Extreme and place on the metal frame and in the corner against the mdf. Be careful of the mylar. Dont let the dynamat touch that of course. The mylar could probably survive that encounter but you dont want to find out. Just be careful and there is no danger. I used the handle ( not the tip) of some pliers to push it in place in the corners and onto the metal frame. No need to use any heat to apply it, just pressure. And it is reversible as you can pull the dynamat off with some effort. It WILL be sticky but it does come off eventually. But I doubt you would WANT to remove it after you have heard the difference.

I suppose other things like rope caulk could be used and it might be a good thing to mix materials as they will absorb different frequencies. And if you are running stock and cant do the wood frames or have a warranty to worry about this would be an easy way to get alot of the benefits of keeping the drivers vibration from being reflected back to it.

This is a simple idea and has been proposed before I think but I havent heard of anyone doing it. Maybe an inmate with stock frames could try it and post their impressions?

So what about the wood frames? At this point they are last on my list. And I think I have an even better solution than the dynamat but it is a bit harder to do, non reversible and pricier. Well see what happens, but right now I am just enjoying the difference.

And here is the link for the dynamat I bought. It is way too much Dynamat for this project and you could probably get by with only a couple of sheets. But I love this stuff and like duct tape, one can never have too much Dynamat around. It makes any audio gear sound better if used in moderation. There is also a standard version that is black but doesnt work as well. If you are worried about seeing the silver through the socks, you could just use magnepans trick and just put some black tape over top.


DawnRazor, you're starting to display some of the hallmarks of genius....., posted on November 8, 2009 at 14:05:17
Marc Bratton
Audiophile

Posts: 4578
Joined: June 15, 2000
 Mainly being able to think 'outside the box' (literally!) and come up with answers based on lateral thinking. That's at least twice you've done this now; I'm gonna have to give this Dynamat Extreme tweak a try. Only thing I'm worried about is what PG pointed out. If I don't like it, if it damps things TOO much; it'd probably be a pig to get it off.

RE: DawnRazor, you're starting to display some of the hallmarks of genius....., posted on November 8, 2009 at 15:34:20
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 THanks Marc,

I appreciate the kind words.

If you hold off a bit I can let you know about removing it. Not because I want too, but as a test for you and others.

I do have a bunch of it on the speakers and on most audio gear. My Pass Labs amp has the whole bottom covered. I will try to remove that and a bit from my maggies, and will let you know.

I will post later in the next day or so, but I think it doesn't over damp as can be in other applications, though I think that the best thing would be to use a few different materials as well. I will be doing this soon with rope caulk and 3m damping sheets.

Right now all I can say is that it has yielded so much improvement on many fronts that it is hard not to recommend. But I do need to try to remove this myself to be safe. I think we will be OK on that front though.


RE: DawnRazor, you're starting to display some of the hallmarks of genius....., posted on November 8, 2009 at 20:01:39
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 1206
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 Tweakers have been using stuff like damping sheets & rope caulk on the baskets of drivers for years. It's a wonder no one's done it on Maggies before. At least I haven't seen it reported on here before. Being budget concious (cheap), I want to give the "rope caulk" version of this a try on my stock frame 2.5's.

RE: DawnRazor, you're starting to display some of the hallmarks of genius....., posted on November 8, 2009 at 20:32:00
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Yep. It was mentioned, but I certainly havent seen any reports of anyone who tried it.

Rope caulk should work well I imagine.


It doesn't help with laminate shelves or thick aluminum., posted on November 7, 2009 at 18:25:27
Al Sekela
Audiophile

Posts: 8279
Location: Northern California
Joined: February 18, 2002
 I've tried it on a Lovan shelf, with negligible benefit. I also tried it on a thick aluminum amplifier front panel, where it seemed to make things worse.

Dynamat X-treme is great for thinner metals, as it is designed to damp auto body panels. It is a constrained layer damping system, where the stiff aluminum foil face is connected to the damped member with a dissipative rubber film. The principle is good, but the facing layer has to provide some sort of match to what it is you are trying to damp. I believe a thicker aluminum layer would be needed for effective damping of MDF. One could apply Dynamat, then cement some sheet stock aluminum to the foil with polyurethane construction adhesive. This would be impossible to remove, so experimentation is called for before anyone actually does this to a speaker!

RE: It doesn't help with laminate shelves or thick aluminum., posted on November 7, 2009 at 22:09:00
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Al,

I have had different experiences. Mostly putting it inside things like cdps, amps, etc. I do have it on some shelves but havent really delved into whether it made any difference because of what it did when it was in the components themselves.

Anyhow the goal is not to damp the mdf at all, but to soak up the panel vibrations BEFORE they make it to the mdf and are reflected back. It really works well in that application.

I will post more about that in a while.


Wonder if this is how the MyeStand works....., posted on November 7, 2009 at 15:52:00
Marc Bratton
Audiophile

Posts: 4578
Joined: June 15, 2000
 You're clamping it fairly snug right at a nodal point. Mebbe it keeps so much vibration from getting back to the mylar? I wonder because what you describe is similar to what I heard when I first put my 12's into the MyeStands. Sounds like your tweak is another order of magnitude more in effect, but very similar.

RE: Wonder if this is how the MyeStand works....., posted on November 7, 2009 at 15:58:39
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Marc,

It sure wouldn't surprise me if that had something to do with it, especially if the Myestands act as a path for the vibration....which reminds me that the stands on my mags need some work :)

I have always planned to wallmount them but just haven't.

Wood was what I had in my head for such a thing, but now I can see that I dont need that so it is much easier to wallmount now.

I will try some dynamat on my lime diy stands and see if that helps too.


RE: An impactful but inexpensive tweak, posted on November 6, 2009 at 12:37:17
Peter Gunn
Manufacturer

Posts: 2932
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: April 16, 2001
 My only concern is this stuff (from what I hear, I never used it) leaves one hell of a mess when it comes off, IF it comes off because I understand the longer it's on something the more it wants to stay on.

I'm not sure that qualifies it as an ideal "temp" solution until one can make their own frames. I think you may find you're now "stuck" with it. Clamping on a piece of wood as a temporary thing seems more practical to me.


It's all about the music...
RE: An impactful but inexpensive tweak, posted on November 6, 2009 at 19:34:49
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Pg,

It is a concern, though just not a big one.

First off having heard its effects I doubt I'll be removing it anytime soon or at all for that matter.

2nd it will come off easy if it is heated a bit. You are right that it is a huge pain to remove if you don't use a bit of heat (which is made easier by the aluminum). And I have heard that goo gone takes it off too, though have never tried it.

It would be interesting to see what its addition to maggies with wood frames would do. Maybe someone with some wood framed mags will put on a few strips and listen.


perhaps a bonafide skeptic should give it a try, posted on November 6, 2009 at 20:00:30
wazoo
Audiophile

Posts: 1889
Location: Middle GA
Joined: December 6, 2006
 I happen to know one who also has wood frames. He's one of those idiots who enjoys fiddling too (had a blast making his wood frames). At one time, he was conviced you were off your rocker. After experimenting with another of your nutty ideas, he discovered that your cracker had a chunk of cheese on it after all.

I'll put a bug in his ear ;-)

(At the very least, if he's (you didn't expect me to drop this second person bit did you?) really careful (as I know he is - anal probably describes him better) he will be able to use the stuff to neaten up the appearance of the backside of the speakers (that are far enough out into the room that the backs are seen when walking past them)). How's that for a parenthetically embellished sentence?


"Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ
RE: perhaps a bonafide skeptic should give it a try, posted on November 6, 2009 at 21:38:22
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Waz,

This guy is NUTS if he is using Dynamat to make things look better!!!

My kind of guy to be sure.

Really interested to know his findings especially in conjunction with the wood.

It probably wont be as big as deal as it is with the stock frame, but I would be interested to hear the results.

Thanks.


RE: An impactful but inexpensive tweak, posted on November 6, 2009 at 18:52:16
RickeyM
Audiophile

Posts: 1206
Location: East Coast
Joined: March 15, 2003
 I was wondering about trying this along with actual wood frames. I'm also wondering about using something like Dynamat or maybe something softer as a constraining layer between the frames & ribbon tweeters.

RE: An impactful but inexpensive tweak, posted on November 6, 2009 at 19:27:16
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Rick,

If I was to build wood frames (doubtful now I'll post a bit later- I have been busy) I definitely would use the dynamat too. There are other things you could try too...blue tack, rope caulk, 3m makes some stuff that absorbs vibration, and you can get some alternatives to dynamat at parts express.

I could see it working well as a constrained layer.


Page processed in 0.040 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2009, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ] [ Go Green ] [ Take5 ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]