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Maggies Love Linaeum

75.165.1.172

Posted on November 1, 2009 at 09:41:13
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008









I don’t post much here but do a ton of reading and have picked up a ton on valuable information here on the Asylum. I wanted to share my excitement on something that has been discussed here in the past but I don’t believe anyone has done this mod to their Gunned Maggie or posted pictures so here it goes.

I’ve owned and loved my DIY Gunned SMGa’s for the last eight months. I’ve listened to more music during that time frame than any other period of my life. My modified SMGa’s are not perfect but they play music that allows me to listen for hours at a time. They are very musical speakers but the one area they lack would be top end extension. Just to clarify, the one thing I cannot tolerate is a speaker that is fatiguing and hard to listen to over time. If I had to choose, I’d rather have a polite presentation over one that it a little hot. Because of this, I’ve often thought about modifying a pair of MG III’s or a pair of 2.6’s with a ribbon tweeter until I stumbled onto a Magnepan dealer in the San Francisco Bay area.

I was traveling on business a few months back and entered this stereo shop. Playing in the front room was a pair of MG 1.6’s with a Linaeum tweeter mounted on the top of the panel. It was playing Eric Clapton’s “Unplugged”. I was blown away with the soundstage depth and high end detail. I sat down and listed to a couple more tracks on the CD and the dealer encouraged me to play anything from his collection of music. I spent the next hour just listening to familiar songs mentally comparing what I was hearing to how my speakers sounded. The dealer was extremely friendly and continued to chat with me even though I told him that I was out of town and just killing time.

Over the next few days, I spend time in the archives here on the Asylum, and found posts noting this shop and modification as it has been briefly discussed in the past. I believe what makes this tweeter so special with Magnepans is because it is bi-directional as Maggies are. The Linaeum tweeter is very unique in appearance and is no longer being manufactured to my knowledge. They are however available on eBay. I found a NOS pair and won the auction for $67.00.

I mounted them directly over the tweeter section of my SMGa’s. I made a gasket that went under the tweeters from some left over sound deadening material that I used to make a projector hush box. It is very dense stuff and helps tame vibration. I used what I believe to be a first order cross over running the tweeter in parallel with the crossover for the SMGa’s. I used a 2.0uf Obligatto Film Oil as the crossover for the Linaeum. I experimented with values for 1.0uf to 2.56uf and found the 2.0uf to be the sweet spot. I ended up reversing polarity on the tweeters. I also tried a bybass cap with the Linaeum but did not care of them. The SMG’a crossover is the PG recipe which consists of (2) 22uf Obligatto old film caps, (1) 6uf Dynamicap and a .78mh Alpha Core inductor. I also added a .01uf Vishay MPK 1837 bypass cap in parallel with the Obligatto’s and Dynamicap.

After about 50 hours of run-in, I’ve been enjoying my SMG’s/Linaeum’s for a couple of months now so the honeymoon phase is over and I still love this set up. It took many hours of trial and error but it was fun and well worth it. I’m running the SMGa’s and tweeters without fuses and can play my music wide open with no ill effects. The Linaeum’s seem fairly robust and can handle more than the advertised power handling capacity. I’m running 500wpc into 4 ohms. Also incorporated is a REL Sub.

The end result is what I had hoped for. My speakers still have the Maggie magic but I now have a larger sound stage and have a top end that sounds smoother and bigger than that of the true ribbons. Just for kicks, I disconnect the Linaeum’s the other day and I could not believe the amount of top end information that I was missing. My speakers almost sounded as if something was broken. The next upgrade; designing a frame that will blend the physical appearance of the tweeters in a more visually appealing manner with the rest of the speaker.


 

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Good for you!, posted on November 1, 2009 at 11:51:35
Al Sekela
Audiophile

Posts: 9169
Location: Northern California
Joined: February 18, 2002
I'm familiar with the shop in Walnut Creek: Stereo Unlimited, owned by Liz and David Hare.

David also uses a proprietary wire for his modifications. It serves to filter ultrasonic energy and RF noise. This would fit well with your desire to avoid the harshness associated with RF noise.

 

RE: Good for you!, posted on November 1, 2009 at 12:37:28
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008
Al,

I am not very technical when it comes to the topics you are referring to. How can I be for certain if I am experiencing RF noies issues or ultrasonic energy? The wire that I am using is a twisted pair. Is there a simple test that you can advise?

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 1, 2009 at 15:30:37
MaggieLover
Audiophile

Posts: 1648
Location: Central New Jersey
Joined: November 1, 2006
I actually have a pair of Radio shack speakers from around 10-15 years ago that had Linaeum tweeters. They're still in good working order. No low end on these very small ported boxes, but the tweeters had nice highs. I wonder if the tweeter in my pair is similar to yours, or whether, as I suspect, there were a number of different models.

Maggies, because you can never be too thin!

Mark

 

interesting..., posted on November 1, 2009 at 15:34:04
m
Because an arrangement like that should theoretically cause many more problems than it could ever solve.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 1, 2009 at 15:48:01
sfox48
Audiophile

Posts: 114
Location: Maryland
Joined: October 23, 2003
Holy $hit! I have all of the makings here- should I?

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 1, 2009 at 16:17:19
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008
You have nothing to lose and everything is reversable. Just use double sided tape to adhere the tweeter temporarily Make sure to invert the polarity when connecting the tweeter. By doing so, the tweeters will disapear and integrate seemlessly with your panels. Because your MMG's have the quasi ribbons your crossover point may vary. If you decided to mount the tweeter permanantly, play around with moving it as an inch will make a diffence with your imaging.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 1, 2009 at 16:27:51
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008
Mark,

I did a ton of research on the Linaeum tweeters. I believe they made two models, a mono pole the other a dipole. If your tweeter looks like mine it is the same. Some on various forums have stated that Aura who made this tweeter for Radio Shack made two different versions. One was made out of Mylar and the other out of silk. I believe mine are the silk version just because if I blow on them, the cylindrical film moves like silk would. I have not been able to confirmed if two models were actually made or not. If you've got a pair, mount them and give them a try. Remember to invert polarity. You will be amazed.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 1, 2009 at 18:27:30
MaggieLover
Audiophile

Posts: 1648
Location: Central New Jersey
Joined: November 1, 2006
The version in my speakers looks similar to yours. I know they were touted as omni-directional, but are they true dipoles?

Maggies, because you can never be too thin!

Mark

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 1, 2009 at 21:51:24
Kirk57
Audiophile

Posts: 449
Location: Chicago's North Shore
Joined: December 9, 2008
Hoshi-

This is interesting...I have some Infinity EMIT tweeters that I was considered for the same purpose, while not dipoles they are pretty highly regarded. I also think I know where I can get some Linaeum tweets.

What is the impedance of this Linaeum driver? I ask because you say you driving it in parallel with the SMGa crossover, depending on the ESR of the 2 uF capacitor, this may have a significant effect on the load the amp is seeing (impedance would be lower).

Kirk

 

Yup..., posted on November 2, 2009 at 02:19:34
kmmd
Audiophile

Posts: 316
Location: Northern California
Joined: October 4, 2001
that's Stereo Unlimited all right. I bought my CC3 from them.

I haven't been there in a while, but I do remember the same tweeters on a pair of 1.6's. They were driven by a VTL MB-450, VAC preamp and a modded AMC player. The extension was amazing, but the imaging was lost IMO. They use "Superlin" (sp?) wiring which I think I'll drop by to purchase at some time for my Tri-speaker center channel setup.

Ken

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 2, 2009 at 06:57:17
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008
Kirk,

The impedance stated on the tweeter is 6 ohms. This has not been measured. According the a chart I used to calculate crossover frequency, a 2.0uf cap will result the 6 ohm tweeter to crossover at 13250hz at -3db. I am not an expert in this area but I don't think at this frequency, most amps will have an issue driving the load.

I believe one of the reasons why the Linaeum works so well with Magnepans is because sound radiates in a 360 degree pattern similar to what Maggies do. The stereo shop I visited has Linaeum's mounted on all Magnepan models from the 20.1 all the way down to a pair of MMG's. Before I made the commitment in purchasing a pair of Linaeum's, I had a pair of tweeters that I mounted in back of SMGa's and had them firing back with the mylar. This test actually gave me results that were better than anticipated.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 2, 2009 at 07:20:12
Kirk57
Audiophile

Posts: 449
Location: Chicago's North Shore
Joined: December 9, 2008
Right, but at frequencies above 13.25K the amp will driving the 6 ohm Linaeum load in parallel with the Magnepan tweeter's load, unless you modify the 'main' crossover to add a low pass for it.

Probably there is not enough music content at those frequencies to drive the amps very hard at all, even if it dips to 2 ohms with the 2 tweets in parallel. In any event it seems it is working and you've had not issues, so that is the final happy result.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 2, 2009 at 08:26:44
gentlegiantfan
Audiophile

Posts: 994
Location: central florida
Joined: November 25, 2002
I worked at Rat Shlock back when those were being sold. There was both a monopole and dipole version that RS built into various speaker models. They also sold the dipole individually as a replacement or for DIYers.

I don't know about the silk diaphram version ... all of RS's were the mylar variety. All in all, a very good idea and great sounding tweet for the $. I understand the monopole center channel model is popular with and blends rather well with a Maggie HT setup, especially if your budget can't cope w/ Magnepan's CC.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 2, 2009 at 09:13:11
bernard991
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Location: w canada
Joined: May 22, 2005
ineresting ...the Linaeum tweeter that is shown ( from some distance ) does not appear to be the same as I see are being advertised on Ebay , they are a small woofer type that seem to have a tweet above under a wire cage
can you tell us the model or other ID of yours ?
thanks
Bernard

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 2, 2009 at 12:32:36
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008






Bernard,

The Linaeum tweeter came on various Radio Shack two way monitors as well as being available and being sold as a separate tweeter. Radio Shack part number for the separate tweeter is 40-1389. You will probably end up removing the protective cage that comes with the tweeter as I did. I've included a picture of the cage. The cage/enclosure has has a 4.7uf cap for a crossover which you obviously will not use.

BTW, I'm that guy who you've been chatting with regarding Mundforf caps and the Ack Dack.

 

Two inexpensive tests..., posted on November 2, 2009 at 14:27:57
Al Sekela
Audiophile

Posts: 9169
Location: Northern California
Joined: February 18, 2002
If you want to see if reducing RF noise from/to your Linaeum tweeters improves the quality of your treble, there are two ways.

One approach is to apply a parallel R-C filter across the terminals of each tweeter. Inmate Awe-d-o-file sells these under the EconoTweaks name from the Asylum classifieds. These are cheaper than the Walker High Definition Links upon which they are modeled. The filters come with spade connectors attached and will fit over other spades on binding post or screw terminals. It is not clear from your photos what kind of terminals the Linaeum tweeters have.

The second is to place a JW Miller RF choke in series with the tweeter. These are the type 5502 or 5522, and are available from Mouser Electronics. You would have to fit your own connectors.

These tweaks would also work on the speakers as a whole if they are acting as RF antennas.

Clamp-on ferrite rings would affect the RF, but may also affect the audio band directly. This would make it difficult to conclude whether RF noise were present.

My advice for those new to the topic of RF noise reduction is to survey your house for possible sources of RF noise, using your audio system as a tester. Listen to something with closely-mic'd vocals and lots of sibilants or cymbals. Turn off and unplug non-audio appliances that may be generating RF noise, one at a time, and listen again. Improved realism indicates the candidate appliance is generating RF noise and that your audio system is sensitive to it.

Candidate appliances are anything with a switching power supply that runs a microcomputer controller. These days, almost all appliances have such things because they allow complicated control functions. Personal computers, digital and video gear, garage door openers, and high-efficiency furnaces may generate more noise because they contain digital processing or radio receiver circuits.

Counter-measures are to improve the RF rejection and damping of your audio cables, provide noise filters for the AC supply, and isolate the noisy appliances with surge-protector strips that also contain EMI/RFI filters (these will have text on them indicating the decibels of noise reduction).

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 3, 2009 at 08:30:56
bernard991
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Location: w canada
Joined: May 22, 2005
Hi Denis
small audio world ....it seems like we are on the same page in a couple of ways . even though all my gear is in cold storage I look to the day that it all reemerges ;>)
so the Linaneum that you have (hard to see)...covered by a cage
the units for sale under their cage look to be 2 round barrels is yours the same ?
thanks
will get those pics off to you soon
Bernard

 

Some day all of the dealers will be gone., posted on November 3, 2009 at 12:37:01
Tom C


 
This dealer turned you on to something you really enjoy. You spent a lot of time in his shop. Yet you did not buy from him, but rather from a net dealer likely without the overheads. This is why audio shops are almost a thing of the past.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 3, 2009 at 14:53:42
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008
Bernard,

Yes, my tweeter looks like two round barrels under the cage.

 

RE: Some day all of the dealers will be gone., posted on November 3, 2009 at 16:10:50
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008
Tom,

Thank you for your kind remarks and thoughtful advice. Yes, someday high end audio dealers will be a thing of the past as will music shops, book stores, video rental stores, etc.

For your information, when I first entered the store, I asked the salesman if they had any stand alone DAC’s, since at the time that is what I was looking for. He did not have any available at the time. He did invite me to take a seat and have a listen since I was already there.

For your information here is where I purchased my audio gear:

Music Server Factory Direct
DAC Factory Direct
Turntable Used off eBay
Tonearm Retail Store
Cartridge Retail Store
Preamp Retail Store
Amplifiers Retail Store
Subwoofer Retail Store
Magnepans Used off Craig’s List

As you can see, I do support retail establishments. You need to accept change, don't make assumptions and learn how to register on this site. Go buy a computer.



 

Could be just what I was looking for., posted on November 4, 2009 at 08:28:59
Rooski
Audiophile

Posts: 237
Location: So. California
Joined: July 23, 2003
For the past few weeks, I've been thinking of adding a tweeter to my IIc's, but was unsure of which way to go. I've read about other people doing it, but mostly with ribbons. I need something inexpensive that works well. These little dipole look like the ticket.

My room is kind of smallish, and extremely live. The left side is fully open into the kitchen, and loading the room with bottom end is tough (also using a sub). Anyways, I'm using 3 ohm resistors to reduce the level of the tweeters, to better match the in room response with the bass panel. I have a nice full sounding balance, but am really missing top end air and sparkle. My SMGa's were the same way. These older planar magnetic tweeters certainly fall short of top end.

I'll scrounge up a pair of these Linaeums, and give them a shot, although with the IIc's being 6 feet tall (with only 8 foot ceiling), I'm not sure if mounting them on top would be the best location.

 

RE: Could be just what I was looking for., posted on November 4, 2009 at 13:15:58
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008
Rooski,

Your concern with the tweeter location mounted up so high is something I've thought about myself as I have contemplated about modifying a set of MGII's since the tweeter are very similar to the SMGa's. I’ve got to believe that the MGII’s would give one better bass and slam with being able to play at louder levels more effortlessly than the SMGa’s.

I don’t think you will have a problem with the Linaeum’s radiating vertically enough if mounted on top of MGII’s. Your issue may be more of ceiling reflection. I’ve sat on the floor while listen to the SMGa’s with the tweeter mod and do not loose much if any of the high end magic.

By the way, the dealer that sells this mod has the Linaeum’s mounted on top all Maggies from MMG’s to 20.1’s.

 

RE: Two inexpensive tests..., posted on November 6, 2009 at 01:05:58
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1823
Location: Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
Al how much difference are the JW Miller type 5502 or 5522 to the 5524.
I have 4 of the 5524 that have been sitting around for a few years, doing nothing.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 6, 2009 at 01:43:36
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1823
Location: Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
I have a pair of them as well sitting on a shelf waiting for me to do something with them. When I had my ET 8a, I tried them with them and didn't care for it.
The problem was the the stock x-over on the Linaeum comes in somewhere around 2500 khz. I think moving it up to 10,000 khz or more would be much better. I do plan on doing this at some point in the future.
Mine say 8ohms on the speakers, a friend you builds some nice DIY speaker say a 1uf cap will get me around 10,000 Khz a little more, (if I remember correctly). My plan is to build a small slim chassis to mount them on, big enough to fit a Cap in, binding posts, + an L-pad.

That will be a home grown super tweeter that I can then use on different speakers. As a matter of fact, a buddy just emailed earlier today and wants me to sell them. NOPE!

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 6, 2009 at 10:01:10
Hoshi
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: November 10, 2008
Benie,

You state that your tweeters are marked 8 ohms. My are clearly marked with an adhesive sticker 6 ohm "Made in Japan". Maybe there is some truth about two different versions. Here is a handly chart that gives one the idea of crossover values. I'm not an expert in this area so I cannot vouch for its acuracy.

http://www.carstereo.com/help/Articles.cfm?id=1

 

50 microhenrys at 15 amperes: too much inductance., posted on November 6, 2009 at 10:52:27
Al Sekela
Audiophile

Posts: 9169
Location: Northern California
Joined: February 18, 2002
The corner frequency with 4 ohms would be 13 KHz, far too low for use with a tweeter. I would not use more than 10 microhenrys, and some inmates prefer the results with 5.

 

You can throw as many disgused and assuming ...., posted on November 6, 2009 at 14:11:16
Tom C


 
insults as you like. It does not hide the fact that you looked this retailer in the face, then took money out of his pocket and put it elsewhere.

 

RE: Maggies Love Linaeum, posted on November 6, 2009 at 23:39:53
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1823
Location: Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
Hoshi;
I guess they did make 2 different ones then. Mine also are clearly marked with an adhesive sticker 8 ohm "Made in Japan", with min + max watt ratings marked as well. I guess that clears that up.

Thanks for the link for crossover values, great info.

 

RE: 50 microhenrys at 15 amperes: too much inductance., posted on November 6, 2009 at 23:47:41
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1823
Location: Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
Thanks for the info Al, don't even remember where or why I got them,:O) I'll find a use for them latter then.
Good link for info on the values, Thanks

 

Two RS versions, posted on November 7, 2009 at 09:32:40
Rooski
Audiophile

Posts: 237
Location: So. California
Joined: July 23, 2003
Quote from another source:

"It appears that there are different versions of the Lineaum tweeters. Radio Shack's older version used a mylar diaphragm but their newest version uses polypropylene. Aura Sound still uses the silk diaphragm in the original Lineaum design."

 

I wonder how these would work...., posted on November 7, 2009 at 10:54:04
Rooski
Audiophile

Posts: 237
Location: So. California
Joined: July 23, 2003
....as an alternative to Linaeums. Has removable rear cap for dipole use.

 

RE: You can throw as many disgused and assuming ...., posted on January 3, 2014 at 22:17:10
IEaudiodude
Audiophile

Posts: 2776
Location: So Cal
Joined: February 11, 2010
I am guessing that nobody is listening to you Tom , nor do we care, why don't you go do some shopping at the brick and mortar "Best Buy" for a while, that should cheer you up.
Photobucket

 

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