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Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating

98.100.198.100
Posted on October 31, 2009 at 06:20:44
Elizabeth
Audiophile

Posts: 2097
Location: Great Lakes Region
Joined: December 20, 2000
 Went to my dealer Friday.. (drizzle and only person in store)
I brought some music I like.. Listened to some new Maggie 3.6 with Bryston electrics. I was mostly impressed.
The Bryston 4B-SST2 was great with the 3.6s. Even spectacular IMO. Attack, realism, clarity, Its only drawback was a not so perfect top end. The lows/mids got a perfect 10 rating from me, but the highs just decent enough for me to accept. (I am VERY fussy about the HF range)
Since I will only buy ONE amp. (biamping is out because of $$$)I will get the Bryston.
(I know I can find them both used here or on the goN'.. but I really want to get a new 3.6 locally.. and I want to at least give the local dealers some business)
I listened to the 3.6's with a couple of other amps and forget it! the Bryston is wayyyyy better in most areas with the Maggies than those others.
The 'talk' that Bryston and Maggies have a synergy is true.

RE: Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating, posted on November 5, 2009 at 19:31:43
Ron D
Audiophile

Posts: 328
Location: Alberta
Joined: June 3, 2000
 While I cannot speak to how sonically the 4B-SST2 would be different from a 14B-SST (prior version as in not "squared") but the 14B-SST would drive the 3.6's with a damn site more authority than even a new 4B-SST2 amp. While I don't yet own a pair of 3.6's I have owned the 4B-SST and continue to own the 14B-SST mated to my 1.6's and the difference is dramatic.

Unless your heart is set on the new version amp do not discount a used 14B-SST amp and if you do considder this route then email Bryston with the serial number to ensure it s the most up to date (prior to the squared verion coming out) prior to purchasing it.

You're running a 14B SST on 1.6s?, posted on November 5, 2009 at 21:11:13
esande
Audiophile

Posts: 169
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: December 27, 2008
 That's impressive. I'd like to hear that, seriously. My SMGs didn't really open up until I put them on the 4B SST. And I'm not talking about loudness here, just detail and clarity.

I can easily imagine the improvement from the 4Bxx to the 14Bxx on 1.6s. Magneplanars are very appreciative of more power in my experience, limited as that may be.
RE: Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating, posted on November 5, 2009 at 11:54:46
jult52
Audiophile

Posts: 167
Location: Philadelphia
Joined: May 27, 2009
 What is your system preamp, Elizabeth?

try something else, posted on November 5, 2009 at 06:23:59
panhead
Audiophile

Posts: 320
Location: chicago
Joined: January 20, 2007
 I borrowed a Bryston amp from my dealer while my Classe Cam200 was in the shop. I would not trade! Just my opinion.

Good luck!

The only 'other' amp I would consider is the Classe 2200, posted on November 2, 2009 at 10:19:03
Elizabeth
Audiophile

Posts: 2097
Location: Great Lakes Region
Joined: December 20, 2000
 MY dealer carries Classe brand also, so I probably will do an audition of the Classe CA2200 vs Bryston 4B-SST2 with the Magnepan 3.6.
I thank the folks ofering choices, but I have to say for any audio product, buying without an audition would be folly. And I am NOT gonna buy to try thank you very much.
Then you may be innerested in contacting Grant V ..., posted on November 2, 2009 at 19:13:55
andyr
Audiophile

Posts: 6555
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 as he uses 2 x Classe CA-201 on his 3.6s (one per side - ie. he's actively bi-amping).

Regards,

Andy


RE:class D, posted on November 1, 2009 at 05:09:30
hemholtz
Audiophile

Posts: 933
Location: Indiana
Joined: February 21, 2003
Contributor
  Since: February 21, 2003
 a lot of companies are using the ice power amps. they really do drive maggies nicely.

RE: Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating, posted on October 31, 2009 at 17:52:40
AudioTrip
Audiophile

Posts: 23
Joined: October 24, 2009
 I have tried many Bryston amps over the years with MG 111a and 3.6 speakers and they all had problems with the extreme high frequencies.

Do not buy them! You will regret it. Most all good power amps will mate very well with the 3.6 speakers and need no tweeter/resistor padding.

Tweeter/resistor padding is a poor "fix" for a "nasty" amp.

Do it!...., posted on October 31, 2009 at 16:50:25
Marc Bratton
Audiophile

Posts: 4578
Joined: June 15, 2000
 Get those 3.6's and that 4BSST! Sure I can't sell you on a pair of 7BSST's? The synergy between the two from the upper mids down is well known; the (less than optimal) treble interaction is probably a combination of Bryston and Maggie's treble both having too much of a similar quality, which is additive. There are fixes.
Resistors work for the non tweak minded, but you get much better results if you can bypass the stock treble caps with some Jenson oil caps. That really works well to smooth out and sweeten the treble. Like you, I am very sensitive to any hash in that frequency range. It's why I hate CD's, and most SS amps. Anyway, this mod, done to my 12's, has given it a very smooth and listenable treble now, which is not in any way rolled off.

Brystons are great amps, posted on October 31, 2009 at 14:51:54
gymwear5@hotmail.com
Manufacturer

Posts: 1218
Joined: April 10, 2002
 I do like my MC352 McIntosh however... Though I do not have a ribbon...

RE: Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating, posted on October 31, 2009 at 11:37:39
Neuro
Audiophile

Posts: 625
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Joined: June 29, 2001
 I have Bryston 7B-SST monoblocks for only the bass drivers (can you say overkill) but they worked well as full-range amps. I also observed the same roughness on the top-end as you.

From what I've heard, the Cary 500 MB amps are simply stunning if you've got the $.

-- Nils

How were the 3.6's coming, posted on October 31, 2009 at 08:41:43
Keith944T
Audiophile

Posts: 127
Location: Western PA
Joined: April 23, 2009
 up short on the highs?
Too harsh?
or what?

The SOUND:, posted on October 31, 2009 at 11:10:13
Elizabeth
Audiophile

Posts: 2097
Location: Great Lakes Region
Joined: December 20, 2000
 The sound from the maggie 3.6/Bryston 4B-SST2 was amazing and I mean the best (in many ways) sound I have ever heard from a stereo source.
Snap, drive, clarity, all the best I have ever heard in a speaker. Pleanty of speakers can make more noise, but the Maggies were real sounding. (At least up to the upper mids..)
As for the tweets.. I have say the first impression was they sucked big time. The sort of 'crap digital grung' one would never expect. (Emma Kirby A FANTASTIC soprano, in Extante Jubilante' was screeching MY EARS BLED). I listened via other electronics and got the 'usual' sound: that is nothing special anymore.. But at least Emma was no longer destroying my ears. so the Bryston WAS doing something special.. Then I went back to the Bryston with other pre and CD. The problem was gone. the problem (which shall remain unexplained) was resolved after a discussion with the dealer and a bit of messing around with other things,not Bryston brand connected to the Brystons.. then I listened with all Bryston stuff again. The treble was now "ok". That is Emma Kirby sound good, but not spectacular. A little too 'hot' I would say, and not as smooth as the best she can sound (like in person?)
So the tweeter problem can be: too hot (resistor fix) not enough perfection in the DA conversion (I am particularly fussy about highs..) bad power.. (no conditioning in the bryston chain.)
So I am not overly concerned about the 'ok' highs.
The SPECTACULAR sound I heard was far closer to music.. is a quantum jump over my current speaker/amp. And My plans are to aquire the 3.6/$B-SST2 as soon as possible. (and Mye stands.)

IMO, you have described typical Bryston sound. :-)) The other day, I heard some 3.6s ..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 15:35:25
andyr
Audiophile

Posts: 6555
Location: Melbourne
Joined: September 2, 2000
 driven by a Parasound A21 - and that was magic! As you say - snap, drive, clarity ... but no HF screeching at all.

Regards,

Andy


RE: IMO, you have described typical Bryston sound. :-)) The other day, I heard some 3.6s ..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 21:51:29
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Andy,

No true ribbons here, but the highs with my A21s are as you describe. Dont know if the chokes help or not (I left them in place) but the the highs are fabulous like the rest of the range.

And I WAS looking at the bryston 2bsst but went with the Parasounds. Looks like I did the right thing.


Just wondering..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 11:34:42
Keith944T
Audiophile

Posts: 127
Location: Western PA
Joined: April 23, 2009
 did you audition with the tweeters outboard or inboard?

As I had replied in your earlier post, showing a photo of my setup, someone suggested putting the tweeters inboard to improve imaging.
I tried that and indeed it did make the stage deeper and a bit more to the width of the room (narrow it)
BIG room, all walls covered with drapery. Speakers tweet out 180* flat angled, posted on October 31, 2009 at 12:48:42
Elizabeth
Audiophile

Posts: 2097
Location: Great Lakes Region
Joined: December 20, 2000
 The dealer had some spots marked on the carpet.. (room was full of B&W 800, 801, 802d etc. Maggies out about 10ft from rear wall, couch 15 feet from Maggies. I listened at about 80dB A weighted max,at listening position.(I had my rat shack meter)
(this dealer has a tendency to really crank stuff up.. 90 dB plus..
Though he knows I do not like it LOUD.)
The Maggies were toed in as on the Maggie site. I straightened them out as I prefer that (I had Magnepan IIbs for awhile.)

Break in issues?, posted on November 1, 2009 at 08:19:07
mnilan
Audiophile

Posts: 145
Location: Central New York
Joined: April 18, 2005
 Elizabeth:
There might have been some breal-in issues with either the Bryston or the Maggies (or both)... (Sorry Showme - just noticed your note after I posted mine).

Yeah, I have decided the 'problem' with the treble, posted on November 2, 2009 at 09:30:23
Elizabeth
Audiophile

Posts: 2097
Location: Great Lakes Region
Joined: December 20, 2000
 May be just break in. I was not saying the combination cannot sing. I just was not as impressed with the treble (AND it had to be really damn fine just to pass muster) as with the spectacular mid/lower sound quality.
My current system was surpassed as if a quantum jump better in the mid and lower and the treble was only 'as good'. (which means it is pretty good!)
So I am gonna buy the items. A lot of posters are mentioning other amps.. none are locally available, and I am not gonna buy a 'pig-in-a-poke' on someone I do not know vouching for..

RE: Yeah, I have decided the 'problem' with the treble, posted on November 2, 2009 at 10:49:21
esande
Audiophile

Posts: 169
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: December 27, 2008
 I'm a happy 4BSST user. But I'm pushing 1.6s with it. It shines in that role, and for all I know it may have the capacity to handle 3.6s. I know I've never been able to drive it hard enough to make it clip into the 1.6s.

When I got my SMGas back in '86, the dealer said a 40 watt NAD would drive them. Yes, but with reservations. A 3BSST would have been better. Or whatever was the equivalent back then.

My point is don't underestimate the amount of current that Maggies need to sound their best. The inmate that suggested a 14BSST (which is basically 2 7BSSTs) was likely not talking out of his hat.

I like your speaker choice and for a fact Bryston amps go with Maggies like gin goes with vermouth and an olive.

Both the amp and the speakers are going to need break in, moreso the speakers because Bryston runs their amps for 100 hours at the factory before shipping. The Maggies are going to be cranky and shrill until they wear in. That is what the resistors are for.

Bonne chance!


One alternative..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 08:32:22
slapshot
Audiophile

Posts: 371
Joined: January 9, 2006
 ...you might considered getting a Pass labs amp instead of the Bryston to drive the maggies. These can be found in good condition from renohifi.com, or on audiogon. The upper end might be to your liking.

RE: One alternative..., posted on November 2, 2009 at 12:59:30
delaney@rea-alp.com
Audiophile

Posts: 698
Location: Minnesota
Joined: April 17, 2003
 2nd that .... Pass X250.5 makes magic with my 3.6R's...with an excellent sweet high end, but I understand your need for a dealer.

I am sticking to products that actually have a dealer network... (8^Q..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 13:05:44
Elizabeth
Audiophile

Posts: 2097
Location: Great Lakes Region
Joined: December 20, 2000
 Several items are pretty cool.. but I want an amp with service, a warranty, a local ealer.
The Pass site show zero dealers... (at present, they are 'updating the dealer network???)
The Cary has "dealers" with no websites??? what are they?? guys in a house with a garage full uf stuff they sell??
Sorry, I want a straight-up company.

RE: Your Forte 4A amp, posted on November 1, 2009 at 01:16:10
benie
Audiophile

Posts: 1050
Location: B.C. Canada
Joined: October 24, 2004
 has served you very well over the years, with hardy being turned off. Although not a Pass design as he left before it came out. But you just know some of his knowledge is in there.
I would give a Pass amp a chance. Build quality is very good.

Totally agree with Davey nt., posted on October 31, 2009 at 22:01:43
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7499
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 d


Yup. And I'd call Reno Hi-Fi a reputable dealer, too (link), posted on November 1, 2009 at 06:40:04
Opus 104
Audiophile

Posts: 2714
Location: Northern Virginia
Joined: June 13, 2008
Contributor
  Since: July 20, 2008
 They always have quality reconditioned (by Pass) amps for sale. No connection, just FYI.




"It was a dark and stormy night. I had taken a creative writing course." – Crow T. Robot, MST 3000.


RE: I am sticking to products that actually have a dealer network... (8^Q..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 19:56:52
Davey
Audiophile

Posts: 1493
Joined: December 26, 2000
 Pass and Cary are both straight-up companies.

Buying used audio equipment is not much different than buying a used car. You can get good quality at a good deal price if you know how to buy it.

I certainly wouldn't penalize a company just for not having a dealer network. In fact, IMHO, it would make them a more attractive company. :) Dealers generally add zero value to an audio product.

Cheers,

Dave.

Agreed. A Pass X-250 would be the ticket. /nt\, posted on October 31, 2009 at 11:13:55
Opus 104
Audiophile

Posts: 2714
Location: Northern Virginia
Joined: June 13, 2008
Contributor
  Since: July 20, 2008

"It was a dark and stormy night. I had taken a creative writing course." – Crow T. Robot, MST 3000.


RE: Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating, posted on October 31, 2009 at 07:34:40
onemug
Audiophile

Posts: 547
Location: So. California
Joined: April 19, 2003
 The 3.6's come with resistors you can use to attenuate the tweeter (no soldering needed). Have the dealer use them and see what that does for your ears. You may also find they sound better "as is" in your own room.

Maybe not broken in yet /nt, posted on October 31, 2009 at 06:33:50
Showme
Audiophile

Posts: 142
Joined: January 30, 2008
 .

RE: Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating, posted on October 31, 2009 at 06:28:26
plumbob
Audiophile

Posts: 38
Location: western pa
Joined: August 10, 2008
 Elizabeth,
With some searching you can get good pricing (about $3300) for a new 4BSST2 from authorized dealers. Use to get a good price from your local dealer. I picked up a six month old used one for $2650. Sounds great with the 3.3's.

RE: Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating, posted on November 2, 2009 at 00:56:36
yagimax
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: Victoria B.C.
Joined: September 21, 2009
 I demoed at home the Bryston 4bsst for a weekend and the sound was good overall with a hint of brightness that I didn't care for with my MG3.6r's.
Not sure how much better the new 4bsst2 would be.

However since then I purchased a Classe Ca-400 that puts out 800w@ 4ohms.
Although not as powerful ,the Bryston wasn't even close.It has a tube like top end and tremendous bass slam.

The 4bsst is just not powerful enough for the 3.6 to make them sing and
sound dynamic at lower volumes.

The Ca400's sell for $2k on the used market. Or look for a used 14bsst if you must have Bryston.

The Cary Audio cad500mb's were also on my short list.

RE: Listened to Maggie 3.6's at dealer with Bryston 4B-SST2 nice.. I am salivating, posted on November 3, 2009 at 19:04:08
Jallen
Manufacturer

Posts: 120
Joined: February 4, 2002
 I get no brightness out of the Maggies with my 4BSST. I use a tube preamp though which may explain it. I use the Quicksilver full function and I use the Music Reference RM 5 MK III. Cable and preamp are keys to a smooth top end out of the maggies (3.6). I also have upgraded the posts with Cardas rhodium ones which do add a bit of refinement. Jallen

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