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Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns

96.26.50.90
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 15:49:41
Mister Pig


 
I am fortunate enough to have a pair of corners to load some corner horns in. I haven't seen the logistics for corner horn set up, but it looks like they will be 10 feet apart, and my listening spot will be 8 feet away. Any issues with doing this? I do not want to run a center channel.

I have been looking at a few sits that show alternate parts for upgrading the Klipsch speaker, there are a couple of wood Tractrix horn kits out there. One company ALK offers a DIY wood kit for a 2 inch midrange horn that looks to be somewhat cost effective. Also there are various crossover modifications for the K horns that look to be transplantable into the Speakerlab version. ALK, Volti Auidio, and Crites all seem to have an upgrade path for this speaker design.

I suppose another consideration would be to upgrade the transducer on the stock midrange horn, and possibly dampen it from the outside if it is needed.

I live four hours from Seattle, so I am hoping to snag a pair of good Speakerlab K Horns off of Craigslist. I am primarily interested in the cabinets, and bass driver....especially if I choose to upgrade the midrange and tweeters in it. On the other hand,possibly the stock drivers are going to be just fine, I wouldn't know until I listen to them. I run a 8wpc Electra Print 300B based SET amplifier, which in reality is a lot of power for this speaker.

From what I understand, there are two versions of the Speakerlab K horn. The original being a two piece cabinet design that was a direct clone of the Klipsch speaker. From what I can tell the second version integrates the midrange/tweeter housing into the bass bin, making it a traditional one piece cabinet. I also understand that the woofer horn flare is not the same as the Klipsch version, which allows it to extend higher, but may have some limitations in other areas.

It seems that people buy the Speakerlab version to have a cheap version of the Klipsch speaker. For me it certainly is cost effective to start with this platform, especially if there are no significant limitations to the bass horn. If I do install the mid/tweet upgrades, then spending all the extra money for a Klipsch makes no sense to me. But I am curious to know other's thoughts/opinions/experiences on this subject.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

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RE: Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns, posted on February 15, 2012 at 11:15:55
Coner
Audiophile

Posts: 3703
Location: S.W. Washington state, USA
Joined: November 17, 2001
 That's what I'd do, is get the bass bottoms, so you can
use a larger, better horn with say, a 300 Hz cutoff or less.
I'd use the Crites tweeter, EV T350, or one of the JBL's
either the bullet or "catseye".

There's some S-lab clones in the classifieds here near Portland, OR.

 

RE: Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns, posted on February 15, 2012 at 12:29:26
Iain42
Reviewer

Posts: 895
Location: Arcansaw
Joined: February 10, 2004
 I'd rather have khorns than speakerlabs. There were issues with some speakerlabs. Hell you could buy a beater pair of khorns and sell the horns and drivers for a pretty penny. I sold a pair of 1970's khorn crossovers on ebay last year for $350! I had a bin of $80 but someone put a bid on it and the price cruised to $350. Klipschorn parts sell very well. I bet it would lower your investment on the khorn bass bins quite abit. I don't think you would do as well with speakerlabs. Good luck!

Check out fastlane audio.
High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk

http://www.itishifi.com

 

I disagree, posted on February 15, 2012 at 20:23:12
claudej1@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: Detroit
Joined: August 17, 2007
 I just sold a pair of really pretty Speakerlab corner horns. I believe they had more than 2 versions, probably 4. The ones I had were plymood with 4 ohm woofers that measured identical to the old Klipsch K33E, not the original crappy particle board ones with 8 ohm woofers.I put all Klipsch components in it, K33E, K55V, and K77. The cast aluminum midrange horn is real thick a exhudes more quality than the current plastic K401 from Klipsch. The woofer section measure down to 30 Hz. in my living room.

I had birch genuine Khorns for 25 years, and Walnut ones for another 5 years. The bass section of the speakerlab K measures and sounds the same as Klipsch (I have another pair of the SK bass bins in Walnut, but I'm in Mich)

so the original plan is sound if you get the same bass bins I have.

 

RE: Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns, posted on February 16, 2012 at 03:56:42
b.l.zeebub
Audiophile

Posts: 9361
Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
Joined: April 17, 2006
 "I suppose another consideration would be to upgrade the transducer on the stock midrange horn, and possibly dampen it from the outside if it is needed."

I'd be more inclined to keep the driver and change the horn for a good one.

 

that is ok we can agree to disagree nt, posted on February 16, 2012 at 09:19:24
Iain42
Reviewer

Posts: 895
Location: Arcansaw
Joined: February 10, 2004
 that is ok we can agree to disagree nt
High sensitivity, wide dynamic range, low distortion, and smooth frequency response. Pwk

http://www.itishifi.com

 

RE: I disagree, posted on February 16, 2012 at 11:33:16
claudej12000


 
I spent a day with PWK in the "salt mine" (Klipsch factory) in Hope, and at his home as his guest. He had purchased and tested an early particle board version of the SK and it didn't test out very well. I asked him about what he tought about peoplelike Speakerlab copying his designs. He it had been done before many times, and he said the patents had run out (this conversation took place in 1985) so anyone could build his bass horn, but it still wasn't "a Klipschorn" and they coudn't call it that because of the TRADEMARK. that seemed to be his only objection, rightfully so.

Speakerlab improved it to the level of the Khorn in the bass bin, but the other drivers were probably rejected by Klipsch and they were probably picked up by Speakerlab at a bargain price. I measured those also and they fell short of the mark. When I put real Klipsch drivers in the SK, including a AA network, the results measured the same top to bottom.

So the original poster should be successful with an SK bottom, Eminence Woofer (K33E) and his own top end and Xover. Whethert he takes his approach or yours, he will get the same results.

In principle, you have a very good point, but the best part of the SK is the bass section measures identical to a Khorn bass bin when sealed properly. That is not an opinion or hearsay, but measured by me with instruments in the same environment 4 Khorn bins vs. 4 SK bins. The results were within 1 db when the same woofers were swapped in and out of the different bins. Without that data, I would have a post similar to yours.

 

RE: Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns, posted on February 16, 2012 at 11:39:43
caffeinator
Audiophile

Posts: 1729
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 22, 2003
 As far as picking up a pair of Speakerlab K's on CL, that's pretty doable...I've been watching CL off and on for a few years and it seems it's rare for there not to be a pair of K's in the greater Seattle area or Northwest region.

Asking prices vary - up to around a grand for what are represented as nice pairs, down to $250-$350 for beaters.

 

RE: Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns, posted on February 16, 2012 at 12:13:24
Wojciech
Audiophile

Posts: 4130
Joined: June 23, 2009
 Default k-33E Klipsch driver is not that great. I'd even risk saying it's a garbage like the rest of Klipsch drivers with all respect to PWK. The bass bin can sound very nice with better driver and treated like a 40hz midbass horn (which it really is)and restricted to 40-50Hz -160-200Hz. If you want to use bins I'd just pile up another 3 channels over k Horns 150-200hz horn close to the ceiling than 400-600 Hz horn and tweeter below and sub bass 20-50hz next to bass bins. Or the way Avantgarde trio is configured right at the front of K-horn (you'd have time aligned channels from 150-200Hz and really a glimpse of what good horn sound is ) Or you can be a Moron like me and use yellow driver with AZura /Oris horn on the top of K-horns and some call it "world class sound" There are many options, all of them compromised.

 

RE: Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns, posted on February 17, 2012 at 15:35:12
b.l.zeebub
Audiophile

Posts: 9361
Location: 52deg 28'N,1deg56'W
Joined: April 17, 2006
 I'd probably run the K-horn up to 300Hz or so and put a BMS 4592 (300Hz-22kHz) co-axial compression driver on top.

 

RE: Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns, posted on February 17, 2012 at 21:09:12
Mister Pig
Audiophile

Posts: 535
Joined: September 21, 1999
 Thanks for the insights and opinions. I think this is going to be a project that I will undertake in the near future. Whether I buy a pair of Klipsch and try that first, or modify a pair of Speakerlabs is a decision I really haven't made yet.

Has anyone heard or known anyone who has used the ALK 2" Ellipsoid horn? The DIY kit looks to be quite reasonable. Or how about the Tractrix horn? Unfortunately I do not know anyone who has a pair I can listen to. This project is going to also be a bit of a journey of discovery. Which is what makes this hobby fun!

As a side note I found a listing for a set of Speaker Factory K horn clones, that look to have a nice cabinet. I can find no information on Speaker Factory, although I do remember when they were around. In this case I would be interested in the cabinets, and would populate it with the appropriate drivers. Well lets see if thats even an option, awaiting a return email at the moment.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

RE: I disagree, posted on February 18, 2012 at 04:59:38
Mister Pig
Audiophile

Posts: 535
Joined: September 21, 1999
 That certainly is interesting to know. It confirms what I was looking for, which would be a birch ply set of factory cabinets. Although if I am required to replace the bass drivers, then it might make things economically trickier. Depending on what a pair of woofers cost, it might make more sense to buy a pair of Klipsch for $2K and sell off the mid/tweets and crossover.

Well at least I have a few options! Thanks for the information.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

RE: I disagree, posted on February 24, 2012 at 20:30:11
claudej1@aol.com
Audiophile

Posts: 817
Location: Detroit
Joined: August 17, 2007
 Either way you will get Khorn bass, it's the top end that is most critical anyhow.........."The midrange is where we live"....Paul Wilbur Klipsch.

BTW, I measured several Klipsch K55V drivers on K700, K600, and K401 horns. The curve is the smoothest and lowest responding on the K401 horn (the one from the current Klipschorn). Although PWK himself told me that after doing the K500 for the Belle center speaker, he felst the K400/401 was longer than it needed to be for the intended frequency range. I still prefer large throat horns for the midrange....2", and 1" for the super tweeter. The B&C DE250 is my current one (just got 2 in my setup) but I understand that BMS makes a slightly better one for more money.

I noticed the Klipschorn Jubilee prototype at his widow's home in 2007 had a tractrix horn with a 1.5 in throat driver (I think it was a B&C, not sure).

 

RE: Considering a Summer Project...Speakerlab K Horns, posted on April 22, 2012 at 13:18:29
WB8IPG@gmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Location: Philadelphia
Joined: March 27, 2012
 I have the original Speakerlab K "utility" kit in my Philly townhouse, still in original kit form. I've moved it twice, always thinking that I'd someday build the speakers, but I'm going to be moving again and can't take the kit with me. Is it worth anything, or should I donate it to a charity? It's complete, down to the speakers and crossovers.

 

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