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folded horn kit

71.93.122.251

Posted on January 13, 2012 at 05:55:30
Posts: 757
Location: southern california
Joined: February 9, 2010
Has anyone built the fostex bk12 kit from madisound? I am itching for a project but I have very limited funds right now, this kit can be at my door for less than 400.00 bucks. I have no fear of putting it together just want to know if it is worth it I will be using a el34 amp with 55wpc is that to much for these speakers. My speakers now are cheap polk audio monitor 60 towers I think they sound pretty good.

 

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RE: folded horn kit, posted on January 13, 2012 at 06:53:51
Pro Sound Guy


 
It would be ashamed it you purchased that and put it all together and did not
care for the full range thing at all...

Build some boxes around this



 

Not too much power, I think, posted on January 14, 2012 at 09:48:17
flatmap
Audiophile

Posts: 309
Location: Pacific NW
Joined: June 5, 2008
I don't think there is any intrinsic problem with having those 55 watts.

However, if your amp has any hum, that might become obvious with the more efficient folded horn design.

 

RE: Not too much power, I think, posted on January 14, 2012 at 10:46:26
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 4376
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002

"However, if your amp has any hum, that might become obvious with the more efficient folded horn design."

With a fully horn loaded driver perhaps, but not with a rear loaded horn. A front loader can run well over 100dB sensitivity, whereas a rear loader's sensitivity is only that of the raw driver. The horn doesn't give broadband gain, just in the lows where a low Qts and/or small Vd driver would have inadequate output otherwise. The Fostex FE126En only has 93dB sensitivity, so hum shouldn't be a problem.

 

RE: Not too much power, I think, posted on January 14, 2012 at 13:23:34
Posts: 757
Location: southern california
Joined: February 9, 2010
my amp is very quite it is yaquin 10 mc10l "gasp" but I would like to move towards set someday I have really bad tinitus I was a tree surgeon,shooter,folder operator,loud music lover, and now I have learned to love good sound at low level.

 

RE: And..., posted on January 14, 2012 at 17:43:24
amioutaline?
Audiophile

Posts: 3794
Location: Great Smoky Mountains
Joined: August 29, 2008
Contributor
  Since:
December 29, 2011
...a 55 Watt EL-34 almost has to be push-pull, probably with some global feedback and consequently, unless an ST-70, not likely to hum.




 

Double-Back-Loaded Folded Horns, posted on January 15, 2012 at 12:06:16
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 5361
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001



Hello Robert,

Whereas I have not built the Fostex BK12 kit from Madisound. I believe I'm still in a postion to help answer some of your questions because I use a pair of Fostex FE208ES-R drivers in Sachiko double-back-loaded folded horns with a Mastersound Reference 845 40W/ch SET, integrated amp, as seen above. So believe me you really cannot have too much power with any speaker. One time I had a person loan me a 10W/ch SET that he wanted me to audition and them tell him what I thought of it sonically. So I used it in place of my amp with the Sachikos and in all honesty it really sounded very, very nice indeed. However it was also quite noticeable that it couldn't handle the dynamics swings or duplicate the transient response of the more powerful 40W/ch SET amp. With the 10W/ch amp whenever there was a large dynamic swing it caused the music to start sound congested and strained as the dynamic swing hit it's peak, but when the same music was played with the 40W/ch the dynamic swing was played as unstrained as the softer music was.

If you want to know how what I'm about to tell you occured and why, feel free to ask me and I'll explain, but in an effort to keep this post brief let tell you that with my 40W/ch, SET amp, I'm now capable of hitting 110dB on peaks on music that's averaging 88dBs and that's with absolutely no sign of strain or distortion heard in the sound! I could never do that with a smaller amp. So I say keep that 55W/ch amp with your Fostex BK12 kit. Just use your power judiciously and make sure you're not ever pushing your speakers to the point where you're damaging them ---{if you listen you should hear the music start to sound strained and congested before that damage occurs}--- and you'll absolutely love the way your 55W/ch effortlessness plays music through these Fostex BK12 folded horns.

Now as far as your $400 limit goes ---{if $400 is your absolute limit}--- I personally believe you'll be able to get either better folded horns used and if you cannot find better folded horns used, I'd either look for into purchasing Madisound's BK20 cabinets for 8" Fostex drivers as seen here: http://tinyurl.com/Madisound-s-BK20-Folded-Horns or I'd consider perusing through Frugal Horn at their many FREE plans availble for building single and double back-loaded horns as seen below!

Finally Robert let me know if I can help you in anyway. I still remember when I first got my back-loaded horns almost 2.5 years ago now and it was the best audio move I ever made. I just wished I had found out about these types of speakers sooner! Just remember there's good and bad in everything. I don't know about the BK12's so I cannot speak about them, but I personally prefer using 8" fullrange drivers because you can get some real bass from them. Robert I was so excited about getting my horns and I'm excited for you! If I can I'll help you can drop me an email at this email address: thetubeguy1954@yahoo.com

Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."

- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society

 

If you have really bad tinitus.........., posted on January 15, 2012 at 14:06:07
vinylkid58
Audiophile

Posts: 705
Location: West Coast
Joined: April 23, 2003
You may want to stay away from Fostex drivers, and build something with Mark Audio drivers instead. They are not as forward (bright) thru the midrange as the Fostex drivers, which I think would really bother your ears.

You have lots of power on tap with your amp, so less efficient drivers won't be an issue.

jeff

 

RE: Not too much power, I think, posted on January 15, 2012 at 14:25:53
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 5361
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
Robert,

You are going to love using back-loaded horns with fullrange drivers. I had a man join my online SET group just before he was getting ready to make a complete change in his audio system. Like you Karl has really bad tinitus and just couldn't listen to loud music any longer. One of the most wonderful characteristics about using fullrange drivers in a back-loaded horns is the music retains it's full harmonic, timbrel and tonal balance and it's dynamic swings when played at low volumes just as well as it did at the louder volume levels!

It's the lack of this ability when using other less sensitive speakers that causes people to constantly feel the need to turn the volume up when listening at low volumes where most other speakers make the music sound dull & lifeless! To be honest with you Robert I sincerely believe even using your Yaqin MC-10L amp will allow you to hear much of what you'd expect to hear when using an SET amp with fullrange drivers in a back-loaded horn. Perhaps you'd like to check out this guy in Australia named Joe Rasmussen who modifies the Yaqin MC10L you own? He's using what he calls "Virtual Triode Operation" that you can read about here:

http://www.customanalogue.com/jlti_el34.htm

Joe Rasmussen claims that the MC10L will compete with amps costing many thousands of dollars more when he's done modding it! However, just because it's always nice to read what someone else thinks about a person's work as opposed to what the person themself thinks. Here's a review written of a Joe Rasmussen modified Yaqin MC10L amp:

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/amplifier-reviews/item/158-custom-analogue-jlti-el34-power-amplifier

As always Robert feel free to ask any question you might have and I'll help you where I can...


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."

- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society

 

Not Really Correct IMHO.........., posted on January 15, 2012 at 16:20:23
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 5361
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
Jeff,

You are mistaken. The less efficient drivers are going to precisely be the issue! I just looked at the Mark Audio drivers and most are very inefficient or more correctly insensitive at 85.5dB to 86.5dB! Robert does not in fact, have lots of power on tap with his amp when using such insensitive speakers! I use a 40W/ch Mastersound amp which isn't much different power-wise than Robert's 55W/ch amp at all.

Now Jeff before I was using my present 98dB Fostex whizzerless, FE208ES-R drivers in double-back-loaded horns. I was using a pair of easy to drive, 88dB, 6 ohm, Aliante Pininfarina One, 2-way, Italian speakers with 6dB/oct. first order crossovers. As wonderful as these Italian beauties sounded when I turned them up they lacked the most wonderful trait that's only attained when using much more sensitive drivers, in proper enclosures and that is the ability for the music to retain the same full harmonic, timbrel and tonal balance and it's dynamic swings when played at low volumes it had when the speakers were played at louder volume levels! The Aliantes, like every other speaker I've heard under at least 92dB, sounded dull & lifeless, in comparison to how they sounded at louder volumes!

Now if you believe this lack of full harmonic, timbrel and tonal balance as well as the dynamic swings when music played at low volumes via insensitive speakers can be cured by having more amp power, you're completely wrong. For I have a more powerful amp in my second system which consists of an Audio Research SP-9, a 150W/ch, solid-state, Harman Kardon Citation 16a and a pair of 88dB, Monsoon FPF-1000 speakers. Once I start turning the volume down on this system the same occurs that occured with my old Mastersound/Aliante combo, i.e. once the AR & HK/Monsoon's music gets below a certain volume it sounds dull & lifeless, in comparison to how it sounded at louder volumes! Consider this below:

88dB 150W This equals the Harman Kardon with Monsoon speakers
91dB 75W
94dB 37.5W
97dB 18.75W

Above everytime I raised the speakers sensitivity by 3dB I decreased the amps power by 3dB. My 40W/ch Mastersound with the Fostex speakers falls between 94dB and 97dB speakers so while it's not an exact match it's fairly close. So I know it's not how powerful the amp is. These results are achieved only when using sensitive speakers and it's speaker's high sensitivity that allows the music to retain all it's sonic beauty at low volume levels. However not being completely satisfied I did a couple more tests. The first test I did was to first hook up the Mastersound to the Monsoon speakers and the result was as the music was lowered in volume it lacked the same full harmonic, timbrel and tonal balance and it's dynamic swings when played at low volumes it had when the speakers were played at louder volume levels! However when I finally hooked up the Fostex fullrange drivers in the back loaded horns to the Audio Research SP-9, with the 150W/ch, solid-state, Harman Kardon Citation 16a and began to lower the volume, the music retained the same full harmonic, timbrel and tonal balance and the same dynamic swings when played at low volumes as it did when the speakers were played at louder volume levels, albeit now the music was at a lower volume! So Jeff I know the issue is all about the driver's sensitivity, not about the amp's power.

Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."

- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society

 

A couple of points........, posted on January 15, 2012 at 17:56:31
vinylkid58
Audiophile

Posts: 705
Location: West Coast
Joined: April 23, 2003
Robert said he has bad tinnitus. I doubt he listens to really loud music, based on my experience with friends/acquaintances who also have hearing issues. I have mild tinnitus, so I know what it's like to be over-exposed to loud music at home, and at concerts.

I own Mark Audio drivers (Alpair 6p & 7) and Fostex drivers (FE127, FX120, & FE167) in all sorts of Fonken, Onken, and BR boxes. IMHO, the Alpair drivers are more articulate compared to the Fostex drivers, and convey more music at lower volume levels. I also have a single powered sub (soon to be two) that helps fill in the bass with the smaller drivers.

Two of my amps have approx. 20w/ch. With the Alpair 7's, I can hear the amps running out of power on loud transients. This is right at my loudness tolerance anyway, so not really an issue. With my FX120's, I can drive myself from the room with the same amps. With the FE167's, I can shake the walls.

My listening room is approx. "L" shaped, 17' x 13' x 13' with 8' ceilings.

jeff

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 15, 2012 at 20:46:48
The bk12 is a dog. Don't waste your money. You will torment yourself with it for 6 months and then sell them on ebay. Save yourself some time and money and buy someone else's off ebay if you really don't believe me. Go over to diy audio forum. Those guys know rear loaded full range much better then here. They will tell you the same. Don't buy a SE amp. Build your own. Start with upgrading your pp amp. It will do you fine with some decent upgrade parts. And you will learn about amps while you do it. And get great satisfaction in doing so.

A good safe start would be a Bib cab look it up. Toms horns are great but there 10 times more complex then the bk12. They are state of the art in rear loaded and the bk are start of a fart. And his fostexs are hiend. The cheap ones are cruel devices. Your better off with a well chosen set of vintage drivers and there is better new alternatives to the budget fostexs many! the new seas driver come to mind. Lacao is another. They make a diatone copy now too. Which can sing close up with a tweeter in a refex cab.

And vintage what about a pair of these in open baffle

http://www.ebay.de/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemnext&item=180788673009.html 98db! check out dht robs evaluation. Google him. And with open baffle you can have loads of fun swaping out a new set of toys off ebay each week!

 

RE: A couple of points........, posted on January 16, 2012 at 05:24:39
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 5361
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
Jeff,

I know Robert said he has tinnitus. That's exactly why I stressed these very important facts to you:

1) The Mark Audio drivers are very inefficient at 85.5dB to 86.5dB and so Robert does not in fact, have lots of power on tap with his amp when using such insensitive speakers!

2) Inefficent drivers lack the most wonderful trait that only using much more sensitive drivers in proper enclosures have and that's the ability to allow the music to retain the same full harmonic, timbrel and tonal balance and it's dynamic swings when played at low volume levels it had when the music is played at much louder volume levels!

Jeff no matter how much you state differently, your very ineffcient Mark Audio drivers, when played at low volume levels, absolutely will NOT be able to retain the same full harmonic, timbrel and tonal balance along with the ability to play dynamic swings they would have "if" the music is played at much louder volume levels!

I don't think you grasped I am absolutely not telling Robert to play the music loud. It's just the opposite I'm telling Robert if he'll use very sensitive or efficient drivers in folded horns, the music will retain all the beauty that's heard when music is played at louder volumes, even when he plays the music at much lower volumes. It's the very lack of this ability when using insensitive speakers that causes people to constantly feel the need to turn the volume up because insensitive speakers make the music sound dull & lifeless when listened to at low volumes levels. Sensitive speakers don't do this to music even at very low volumes.

Jeff I have a friend Karl who also has tinitus, but Karl has a very bad case of tinnitus. He absolutely cannot listen to loud music any longer. Taking my advice Karl setup Fostex FE206ES-R drivers in back-loaded horns and as I stated before he ONLY listens at very low volume levels! It's now over a year later and Karl still is amazed at how well his Fostex drivers/Horn enclosures are capable of playing music at low volumes. Karl ---{as well as his two sons}--- says they are constantly amazed at just how much the music's beauty remains the same sonically at low volume levels as it did at high volume levels.

Unlike when he used used less sensitive drivers, the music now retains all the same full harmonic, timbrel and tonal beauty at low volume levels. Now for the very first time, Karl is able to play music at much louder volume levels and now enjoy the music without constantly wishing he could turn it up so it would sound better! The lack of insensitive drivers/speakers to do this same thing is why some audio components have "loudness" buttons on them.

Jeff is you are happy with your Mark Audio drivers I am happy for you. There are many audiophiles who aren't happy with their gear, so you're already ahead of the game. I've read good things about the Mark drivers in other audio forums, so I know they're well thought of drivers. My only concern with them for Robert's usage is their very low sensitivity at 85.5dB! That's 3dB lower than the average 88dB speakers out there. Other than that one issue and the problems I mentioned above associated with using insensitive drivers to play at low volumes, I think they are fine drivers...



Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."

- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 16, 2012 at 07:12:39
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 5361
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
Hi Tubebuilder!

I agree with your post about 97% I too, believe the BK12 is a dog that's why I recommended Robert either buy used or at the very least a BK20 that uses the much better Fostex 8" drivers, plus I was trying to find out just how firm Robert's stated $400 audio budjet really was!

The 3% where I begin to disagree with you is with your recommendation to Robert not to buy a SE amp, but to build his own. Not everyone can do this. I've been in this hobby for 45+ years and couldn't repair or mod my SET if my life depended on it. Plus who would want to chance possible destroying their amp and what do you propose he use "if" he start with upgrading his Yaqin MC10L amp? Where I begin agreeing with you again is I do believe a person will get great satisfaction in having the ability to repair/mod/build their own audio components.

I want to thank you for your nice comments about my back-loaded horns and Fostex drivers. Yes the Sachiko's are complex internallyand you're correct in that I am using what is to the best of my knowledge Fostex's most expensive 8" driver. However a much less expensive close driver are the FE208E Sigmas I suggested to Robert.

I think your suggestion that Robert consider a BIB horn is a very good one Tube and one I have to admit I'm embarrassed I completely overlooked it as a choice. Considering that the BIB is simple to build and even if one isn't capable of building a BIB horn it would be very inexpensive to have one made and it sounds very, very good to boot! A pair of BIB's loaded with a pair of nice Fostex or other 8" fullrange drivers should still fall in or perhaps it is slightly above Robert's budget.

Finally the 8" fullrange L Cao might be a good idea for a open baffle design, but have to admit I'd need someone to look at the T/S specs and tell me if I'm right. However if the L Cao would work on an OB design it would be perfect for Robert as they're $350 a pair and anyone can build an OB. So it could be the perfect solution.




Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."

- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society

 

RE: folded horn kit, posted on January 16, 2012 at 07:51:45
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 5361
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
Robert check this out you can either build a BIB horn. Robert "if" the BIB horn interests you check out the link to the forum below. The first page will show a photo of gychang's BIB horns. Later on page #3 look for post #23 where gychang tells what the dimensions of the BIB's shown on page #1 are:

They have 120" line length. The inside dimensions are height:60" with the speaker's placement being 24 from top to middle of the speaker. Inside is the slanting baffle that stops 5 from the floor, 5 from front and 5 from back. Look at the picture I drew below.





From the front top to the front bottom is 60" and the space where you see an opening on the front is 24" down from the top ---{measured from the center of the hole opening for the driver}--- this is where you'd place the driver in the middle of the front board. The 120" line length of the horn spoken about above is achieved because you'll get 60" going down the front and 60" coming up the rear. The spot where I placed the small black square is the spot where the internal slanting baffle inside stops 5 from the floor, 5 from front and 5 from back. Finally the top is where the horn exits and obviously is completely open. So as you can see it's easy to build.

Robert I also found a pair of great 8" fullrange L Cao drivers which are based on the highly regarded vintage Diatone PM610 drivers. They have alnico magnets and are only $349 a pair. You can see them at this link here: http://tinyurl.com/L-Cao-Ebay-Ad It's quite possible they'll work in these BIB horns, but others will have to answer that question. These are the specs listed on eBay:

General Specification:

Maximum Power : 20Wrms
Frequency : 40Hz to 20KHZ ( in box)
Impedance : 8 Ohm
Xmax : 1.8mm
Sensitivity : 94dB
Fs : 55HZ
Qts : 0.7
Vas : 65L

However if they won't work in a BIB they'll work in a TWQT enclosure because they recommend using them in a 100 litre TQWT box in their AD. A TWQT isn't much more difficult that a BIB to build as you can check out here: http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/tqwt.htm

Just be sure no matter what speakers you do decide to build that you use efficient drivers that are 92dB or more sensitive in them and you should get great results when listening at lower volumes, with music that's harmonically, tonally & timbrelly balanced and still capable of playing dynamics without bothering your tinnitus. If you have any doubts I have a friend Karl I can put you in touch with who'll verify all this for you.

Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."

- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i





Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society

 

RE: folded horn kit, posted on January 16, 2012 at 15:25:02
Posts: 757
Location: southern california
Joined: February 9, 2010
You guys have given me a lot to think about thanks. I also realized that there is no reason I should be paying for someone else to do all the work I am very capable of cutting,drilling and whatever else is involved. Look at what gychang built with very little tools.Also I found a site called wildburroaudio that had some interesting open baffle designs any info on how these sound.

 

A couple of points........(another opinion), posted on January 16, 2012 at 23:36:46
TerryO


 
Tom,

That was really nice of you to point out to Jeff all those things that you felt he wasn't aware of. The only problem I can see, is that knowing Jeff and his background as not only an excellent engineer and a long time audiophile (that has spent a fair amount of time around Fullrange speakers and BLHs) I believe that his views "just might" have some validity.

Best Regards,
TerryO

 

RE: A couple of points........(another opinion), posted on January 17, 2012 at 03:37:24
thetubeguy1954
Audiophile

Posts: 5361
Location: Orlando, Fla
Joined: January 7, 2001
Terry,

I was only speaking my opinions based on my experiments. My conclusion is that speakers with sensitivities under 92dB lose the life of the music at low volumes. I explained how I came to my conclusions, but considering my tests weren't done via DBTs scientific standards would require, I'll admit what I said is only my opinion. Having a different opinion than Terry in no way invalidates Terry's opinions does it?

Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."

- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i


Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)

Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 17, 2012 at 13:35:55
SXL2004
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: NE
Joined: January 17, 2012
Hi,

would you mind to elaborate why the BK12 is a dog?

Thanks

joerg

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 17, 2012 at 18:01:30
Posts: 757
Location: southern california
Joined: February 9, 2010
I was going to ask the same question is the cabinet a dog or is it the speaker? Any way, I think I am going to build the winged open baffel on wildburroaudio not sure if I wil use their driver but it is a cheap and an easy build. I think I can learn alot about how fullrange works from these.

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 22, 2012 at 07:55:28
bradluke0
Audiophile

Posts: 107
Location: cental fl
Joined: February 14, 2010
Hi all ! Robert , as you can see we all have different opinions to all this . Do what you want to , make some mistakes , learn from them and have fun. Following someone else's path is ok . However , Imho not in the spirit of DYI or the fun of it all . Good luck !

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 22, 2012 at 10:16:24
Posts: 757
Location: southern california
Joined: February 9, 2010
Thanks for your advice I hope I am clever enough to figure out that even though my first try might not yeild the perfect ob sound at least I think it will at least tell me that it is a sound I want to pursue. the same way I still listen to vinyl the same reason I do silly tweaks.
I can tell that I am on the right track. unfortunatly at this moment I am struggling financialy but I need something to do other than sit around and watch tv all day. So for the price of a sheet of mdf or plywood and some speakers i can still play.And trust me I will be playing with different designs I just need a place to start.

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 24, 2012 at 06:59:18
SXL2004
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: NE
Joined: January 17, 2012
Hi Brad ,

well put.
It is just that it is very different to learn from someones experience if only unsubstantiated statements are given.

Ciao

Joerg

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 24, 2012 at 07:48:56
sorry no search this forum and diy forum. Sorry if you own a pair. Good luck if you enjoy them thats all that counts at the end of the day.

 

RE: Tinnitus how to beat it., posted on January 24, 2012 at 09:08:43
Tom I know this is going to sound crazy to you but bear with me on this theroy I have about my experience on tinnitus. I have had a LOT of tinnitus firstly from owning and firing a 458 winchester magnum when I was a teenager and worse still a 358 Norma magnum. The ultimate ear destroyer well I thought until I spent 2 months in hospital having full bags of vancomycin bolised up my arms whith huge syinges because they where to lasy to spend the time hanging them for last resort staphylococci infections. Well that was what one of the hurses told me that I had become freinds with over the years. My foot that time was rotting off. This did far more damage and angers me as it was totally avoidable.

But on a more positive note after being plagued for many years I learned that like severe nerve pain but much more so. tinnitus is a state of mind and the more neurotic you become about it the worse it gets. And of course being an audiophile this can be a hell. Actually I became more serious about my audio as a defense to tinnitus. But I tell you now today my tinnitus is Absolutely cured. No my hearing damage is still there but I have turned of the receptors in my brain that hears it. I DON'T HEAR IT ANYMORE. NOW SUGGESTING THIS TO YOUR FRIEND MUST BE DONE WITH TACT BECAUSE TRUST ME THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THEN BEING TOLD YOUR NEUROTIC OR YOU ARNT IN PAIN JUST PUT IT OUT OF YOUR MIND.

But believe it can be done. You tell your Friend to just stop listening to it and refuse to accept it exists. Just talking about it now mine is breaking through for the first time in years. Trust me it will change his life and bring his music back to him. Perhaps a yogi may help with the mechanics of what I am trying to say. But you can do it. Stop listening for tinnitus stop hearing it. Personally trans coupling in my audio really helps or it did years ago when I was still fighting it. Good luck you dont have to suffer tinnitus. And finally I will tell you another thing that was suggested to me by a hearing specialist neurotic people statistically suffer more often from tinnitus and neuralgia . There is been times. My injuries are all on my right side. That my nerve pain has been so bad that it has cross centerers in my brain to the point my whole right side was on fire A clear line straight down my body in the middle. The whole right side of my body became one big phantom limb pain wise.A burning shrunken miniature of the real right side of my body. Nothing on the left. I nearly topped myself many times. Nerve Pain and tinnitus in your brain is a very subjective fluid thing. It can be controlled by the power of your brain and state of mind believe it. These days I have very little nerve pain at all just bone, joint ,back and some phantom pain remains. What you would expect from complications or my right arm and foot injury.

My right foot was crushed by a falling shelve while shopping for wood for a preamp at a hardware store and my right arm wash smashed by a drunkin driver in a truck side swiping me ten years earlyer at work carting nitriprill to a quary. In case you wonder. Most people want to know. And thats how I get to spend all my time building amps and playing with my child:)


On the other hand I know this sad neurotic woman who is in utter torment off her face on morphine ,eurontin you name it for pain I know that doesn't exist. She spends her whole life going to doctors and telling them she has pain and them not finding it. They tell her she has phybromyalger. What she has is mental illness. She is killing herself. She has the pain. Its all very real to her. Because she wants it on some subconsous level. The last time I visited her within 2 minutes of greeting. She took me in to the next room to show me a self potrait which was severly deformed and all the pain mapped out where she feels it in her body. If she took that painting with her to the doctors I am sure it would dawn on them how mentally ill she is. Such a waste. She is not a hypercondric. The pain is as real to her as anyone in pain. Her brain has created it. Unreal hey. Or I find it facinting. Pain has played a big part of my life and she has taught me a lot how NOT to suffer it.I know if she can create it. I can destroy it. And your Friend can defeat his tinnitus too.

Don't accept tinnitus don't hear it and you will be free. Try to tell him Tom I hate to think he is going through what I did. There is nothing worse then tinnitus ruining your music.I hope this is some help to any of the inmates that suffer. It sure took me long enough to type it with one finger lol

Regards the tiny free T ;)

 

RE: A couple more points........, posted on January 24, 2012 at 09:11:26
SXL2004
Audiophile

Posts: 3
Location: NE
Joined: January 17, 2012
Thanks for pointing in the direction of more information.
I just assumed that you were referring to actual experience, rather than virtual experience, when you made your statement re performance of these speakers.

Ciao
Joerg

 

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