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Tractrix horn worth dampening?

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Posted on November 7, 2009 at 10:16:37
Paully
Audiophile

Posts: 4171
Location: West Virginia
Joined: February 15, 2004
 A post on the speaker asylum got me wondering. I have a pair of Klipsch Chorus II speakers with the tractrix midrange horn. Is it still worth trying to dampen that horn or is it a waste of time? It seems to me I remember reading someplace that it shouldn't be necessary, but I can't remember where.

Moisture/Humidity are not beneficial to most audio/electronics gear IME..., posted on November 7, 2009 at 14:00:36
eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 5275
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001
 ... Oh, you meant Damping? Killing sympathetic vibrations is usually a good thing.

eso
They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves–Henry Chinaski
Webster's, posted on November 7, 2009 at 15:44:26
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 3887
Joined: June 17, 2000
 Main Entry: damp·en
Pronunciation: \ˈdam-pən\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): damp·ened; damp·en·ing \ˈdamp-niŋ, ˈdam-pə-\
Date: 1547
transitive verb
1 : to check or diminish the activity or vigor of

RE: Webster's, posted on November 7, 2009 at 17:03:29
eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 5275
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001
 damp⋅ing
  /ˈdæmpɪŋ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dam-ping] Show IPA
Use damping in a Sentence
See web results for damping
See images of damping
–noun Physics.
1. a decreasing of the amplitude of an electrical or mechanical wave.
2. an energy-absorbing mechanism or resistance circuit causing this decrease.
3. a reduction in the amplitude of an oscillation or vibration as a result of energy being dissipated as heat.


They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves–Henry Chinaski
RE: Webster's, posted on November 7, 2009 at 21:25:02
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 3887
Joined: June 17, 2000

Main Entry: ped·ant
Pronunciation: \ˈpe-dənt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Italian pedante
Date: 1588
1 obsolete : a male schoolteacher
2 a : one who makes a show of knowledge b : one who is unimaginative or who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge c : a formalist or precisionist in teaching
Pot, Meet Kettle!*, posted on November 8, 2009 at 02:09:33
eso
Manufacturer

Posts: 5275
Location: Long Beach, CA, USA
Joined: March 15, 2001





They were a carnival of American decay on parade, and they had no idea of the atrocity they had inflicted upon themselves–Henry Chinaski
Twin Sons ?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 17:31:53
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 3887
Joined: June 17, 2000
 Twin sons of different mothers?

All right smar alec, posted on November 7, 2009 at 14:14:27
Paully
Audiophile

Posts: 4171
Location: West Virginia
Joined: February 15, 2004
 Spelling is not my strong suite, to be sure. Or word choice between two similar for that madder.

RE: Tractrix horn worth dampening?, posted on November 7, 2009 at 11:04:40
djn
Audiophile

Posts: 1832
Location: michigan
Joined: January 15, 2003
 At some point, the necassary thickness of the horn wall is such that in a small horn it would not ring. That and the mounting is so close. Flick them with your finger nail. If they ring then they need damping. My guess is that they won't ring.

They're plastic, posted on November 7, 2009 at 11:18:29
Paully
Audiophile

Posts: 4171
Location: West Virginia
Joined: February 15, 2004
 So it is hard to hear a ring, sound more like a thump so I am guessing they don't really need it.

RE: Tractrix horn worth dampening?, posted on November 7, 2009 at 11:03:55
freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 1724
Joined: December 6, 2001
 I'd think mortite would alter the sound (?) sometimes a horn's ringing is part of its sound - when damped in some plastic and metal horns, it sounds to me as if there's an internal surface wave and the damped wave together - if that makes any sense- are those k703 mids (I've hot seen/heard other than what I bought long-distance) - there may be other ways but that will come off easy - here's some comments

RE: Tractrix horn worth dampening?, posted on November 7, 2009 at 11:20:29
Paully
Audiophile

Posts: 4171
Location: West Virginia
Joined: February 15, 2004
 Interesting reading, I think it was on the Klipsch forum that I read that they weren't worth dampening. I can't really remember, it has been a while. But it doesn't seem like it would be worth pulling them out and spraying them down with something.

RE: Tractrix horn worth dampening?, posted on November 7, 2009 at 16:01:04
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 3887
Joined: June 17, 2000
 The metal horns benifit drom dapening.

The plastic horns seem to lack rigidity as well as internal dampening.

'Voicing' is a specious arguement. The 'gaak' added by a horn ringing is proportional to the drive level, so the 'voicing' is always different on different musical passages. That's coloration, not 'voicing'.

Likewise the notion you can 'voice' out the ringing by tube rolling.

I just bought a used Klipsch RB-75 with the one-piece horn/baffle/port assembley. What a joke, I'm not sure (yet) how I am going to fix the horribly thin, resonant horn/baffle/port assembly. I wager there will be some wood or metal involved as well as dampening material.

One way to evaluate the 'gaak' contributed by your horns is to run some noise at a moderately loud level through the horn, and then push the tape monitor button. The stored energy re-radiating as sound will be be plainly audible. I've heard some metal horns make a 'schwing' sound that bears no semblance of the sound that induced it, 'voicing' indeed!

RE: Tractrix horn worth dampening?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 11:08:57
Teddy
 Quote:
Voicing' is a specious arguement. The 'gaak' added by a horn ringing is proportional to the drive level,
Endquote:

If it is leveldependant it must be something else than ringing.
Throatcompression in a homeenviroment doesnt really seem to fit the bill either, so i would guess there is something wrong with either the amplifier or the magnetic field around the coil or the Diaphragmsuspension.

Quote:
One way to evaluate the 'gaak' contributed by your horns is to run some noise at a moderately loud level through the horn, and then push the tape monitor button. The stored energy re-radiating as sound will be be plainly audible. I've heard some metal horns make a 'schwing' sound that bears no semblance of the sound that induced it, 'voicing' indeed!
EndQoute:

A room may very well ring worse than a good horn, so it would be difficult to hear what is the room and what is the horn.
However, badly damped Diaphragms has a very characteristic 'zing' sound to them.
RE: Tractrix horn worth dampening?, posted on November 8, 2009 at 17:44:38
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 3887
Joined: June 17, 2000
 I'm sorry you can't follow the logic here.

If you would bother to do the experiment I suggested you would change your conclusions.
RE: Tractrix horn worth dampening?, posted on November 9, 2009 at 03:32:09
Teddy
 HUH, personal attacks so early in the morning!?!?

I have done those many times...
Both in small rooms and in large cathedrals, sportarenas, pubs and so forth. And as late as yesterday i did that in a 300year old sailmaking factory.
-It is a very good way to evaluate a room with...

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