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Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?

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Posted on October 30, 2009 at 19:10:08
angeloitacare
Dealer

Posts: 403
Location: aracaju, brazil
Joined: September 19, 2006



here a interesting comment of RCA MI-1443 used in the midbass range above 250hz. Since this is a hard to get, and expensive driver, is there a interesting alternative , worth a try, to replace Fane Studio 8M ?

Angelo


http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic..._id=19&page=20

Visited CV tonight and we listened to the Azura 160s with both S2 and RCA MI-1443. S2 crossed at about 300Hz and RCA at about 250, I think. Ok, it was one mono channel, with just the horn and a Fostex tweeter (the expensive one with magnesium diaphragm).

What we listened to was rather rough and ready, but has reinforced by conviction that using a compression driver down to 300Hz, or even 200Hz is absolutely desirable. The 300Hz - 1kHz contains so much fundamental musical information, thaty getting this right is extremely important to reproducing music.

The S2 is nice and it's definitely works using it down low like that, but may not be the best choice. In isolation it sounded very good used like that. The RCA on the other hand is a completely different kettle of fish. Absolutely astonishing. I don't think I have heard Cello reproduced in such a lifelike manner. Piano is notoriously hard to reproduce with realistic scale and presence. Truly, despite the limitations of the thrown togtherness, this showed such promise that you soon realise that conventional speakers are never going to compete.

JJ - this has convinced me it's defnitely worthwhile going down the compression driver/big lower mid horn.

RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on November 3, 2009 at 06:15:00
JoshK
Audiophile

Posts: 590
Location: NJ/NYC
Joined: August 3, 2001
 I have zero experience here, but, it seems to me that for cones the performance at the upper end of the frequency range hinges on the use of a phase plug.

I attached a link to a webpage detailing diy phase plugs. I'd like to try this. I just need a lathe, or maybe I can get creative with a router and a circle jig.

The rub for me is sourcing large enough horns.

----------------
"When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on October 31, 2009 at 04:46:01
PK
Audiophile

Posts: 440
Joined: April 6, 2001
 Hi Angelo,

I think it quite difficult to make a fair direct comparison between cone drivers and compresson drivers, since they each require different throat sizes and hence usually also different horns.

I have not tried any of the comression drivers you mention, but in the app. 300-1000 range I have tried two different compression drivers (BMS 4592 ND and Community M200) on two different horns (Jabo KH-50 and Bentwood 200); AND several cone drivers (8" Fane Studie 8M, 5.25" PAudio WN-520N; 8" Ciare 8.50 NDMR; and 6.5" Ciare 6.38 NDMR) all on a conical mid horn with a 81 cm2 throat.

The Community M200 is somewhat more open and clean than the BMS, but I do prefer a cone driver in that range - especially in the low register - they simply sound more natural and less 'squeezed' to me. The best for me so far is the 5.25" PAudio WN-520N. But, this may, at least in part, be due to the horn and not only the driver typology as such.

Best regards
Peter

RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on October 31, 2009 at 06:47:20
cpbajan
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 68
Joined: February 18, 2002
 Whick conical horn did you use the P audio 5.25 driver with, and what range did it cover.

RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on October 31, 2009 at 07:55:07
PK
Audiophile

Posts: 440
Joined: April 6, 2001



Hi cpbajan,

The mid horn is a custom made, 61.5 cm long, conical horn with a 60 degree horizontal dispersion. With the PAudio driver it covers the 260-1500 Hz range.

Best regards
Peter

RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on October 31, 2009 at 11:25:23
cpbajan
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 68
Joined: February 18, 2002
 Thank you Peter for the infomation. Always looking to gain more information about horn implimentation

PAudio WN-520N - specs, posted on October 31, 2009 at 08:08:23
PK
Audiophile

Posts: 440
Joined: April 6, 2001
 Here are the specs of the little Paudio "monster"!

Best regards
Peter

RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on October 31, 2009 at 04:41:37
Carolus
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Location: BXL
Joined: December 16, 2003
 hi angelo,
if I go for minimum minimorum (driver) distortion with (possible) high (domestic) acoustic/music levels my choice is certainly for a "low-mid" horn with compression driver (with Fr low enough) and a concept range 2oct,
it's just a personal (& comparaison) nice experience,
greatings,
karel

RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on November 1, 2009 at 04:09:12
angeloitacare
Dealer

Posts: 403
Location: aracaju, brazil
Joined: September 19, 2006
 thanks, Peter, et al for the responses.

I cover with the Fane Studio 8M from 150hz to 1000hz.

At Melaudia gathering

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-i1wjkiEGro/Sc_Hh2-XlXI/AAAAAAAAArE/7NxlE8zDmQo/s1600-h/P1000595.JPG

and also the Le Grand Castine from france , use a Radian 950pb from 300hz up. I tried this also, with a 64cm tractrix horn, with remarkable results.

there is some controversy however, that a compression driver below Fs does not controll the diaphragm, resulting in a lot of distortion. Is that true, even if using low power , up to 10 Watts? i don't remember with my experiments to have bothered with this.

Isn't 300hz not a critical crossover range, which should be avoided ?

Angelo
RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on November 4, 2009 at 14:19:58
d to the g
Audiophile

Posts: 193
Location: mpls
Joined: July 24, 2007
 300 Hz is the equal energy point. For ideas on where not to crossover, see the fletcher munsen curves.

RE: Compression driver, or cone speakers for midbass horns - what is better ?, posted on November 1, 2009 at 05:25:44
Carolus
Audiophile

Posts: 25
Location: BXL
Joined: December 16, 2003
 hi angelo,
I don't replay for (your) "peter", but only for my concept and expierence:
I cut my driver (JBL2482) always in full respect with the technical sheet (lower limit 300Hz) and of course with a practical check (@Fr) on the low-mid section passif filter,
And fyi: I have no (tech & music) problems @ 300Hz with a good tuning (and symbiose) with all drivers,
karel

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