High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

Need speakers that can rock with just one watt? You found da place.

Return to High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker

24.46.184.66
Posted on October 22, 2009 at 19:11:46
terrapin
Audiophile

Posts: 110
Location: ny
Joined: November 22, 2005
 with following characteristics -
1. Sense of ease - doesn't get hard-sounding or relentless when pushed.
2. Lusher rather than leaner.
3. Large sweet spot.
4. capable of conveying weight like in real music

Thank you for your responses., posted on October 25, 2009 at 17:16:55
terrapin
Audiophile

Posts: 110
Location: ny
Joined: November 22, 2005
 Thanks.

RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 15:01:25
Greg B
Audiophile

Posts: 966
Location: Los Angeles, California
Joined: January 21, 2002
 If you don't mind the size, the original Ultraflex cabinet plus a decent mid/high horn meets that criteria: big sound, lush, easy to listen to.

LaScala? IMO fine sounding, but I'd call them clean, dynamic, and lean (no deep bass) rather than "lush".

K15's + K-tubes = very large sweetspot and effortless bass, but things can go awry with the wrong driver, and again maybe best characterized as clean and dynamic rather than lush.

RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 14:48:28
freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 1724
Joined: December 6, 2001
 for a pair = two+ sheets of plywood, two low mass 15" or 18", a few coils and caps, 1"-2" pvc and a couple of cheap 1" compression drivers - or simply use 15" coaxial speakers
RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 15:17:30
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 6899
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Questions

1.) What do you do with the 1" compression Driver? DOn't you need a horn lens?

2.) What do you do with the PVC?

3.) DO you know of anyone that makes these cabinets for sale?

Cut-Throat
RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 15:27:50
freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 1724
Joined: December 6, 2001
 dunno anyone who builds them but they're pretty simple - re:pvc a one-inch tube like Transylvania's will work

a diy half-ellipse tube of 1"Id pvc (5.3"-5.5" long when finished) with (full) major axis about 10.6"-11" and minor axis of pi*pipe OD (minus ~1/8" makes a waveguide something like Transylvania's "The Tube" and very smooth imo ~1K6 up.

BEC's Transylvania Tube


Transylvania tube on one of my K15


thinwall tube made that size (thicker walls are less resonant)
RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 27, 2009 at 21:42:09
c3conv2
Audiophile

Posts: 88
Joined: March 31, 2008
 Hello freddyi,
First time i saw this kind of horn lens. It is not as popular as the other horn type but would like to know from you what makes this lens different from the others you have used. What intrigues me is the way you can change the direction/position of the lens as I assume will change the sound . What are the effect in sound when you change the direction? I have have a pair of cheap 15" bass and a pair of ceap 1" compression horn. This will be a nice project to do but would like to hear your oppinion about them first. thanks

"dunno anyone who builds them but they're pretty simple", posted on October 23, 2009 at 15:43:53
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 6899
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
 Can you build them without a table saw? - If not, they are NOT simple!

Cut-Throat
RE: "dunno anyone who builds them but they're pretty simple", posted on October 23, 2009 at 15:50:02
freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 1724
Joined: December 6, 2001
 could build one rough and nasty looking with a circular saw :^)

RE: "dunno anyone who builds them but they're pretty simple", posted on October 28, 2009 at 13:01:15
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 5945
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I think you would need a sabre saw to get those curves right!

Dave

Tannoy 15" DC, posted on October 23, 2009 at 14:05:11
Jay Buridan
Audiophile

Posts: 1593
Location: Michigan
Joined: January 21, 2004
 is fantastic.

RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 11:17:55
Larry I
Audiophile

Posts: 1244
Joined: June 28, 2000
Contributor
  Since: June 28, 2000
 What other characteristics? For starters, it would be helpful to know the following:

1. Price range

2. How efficient do you need (what amp are you considering?)

3. Give examples of some speakers that sounded good to you and match your notion of "lush" and proper weight, etc.

4. Physical characteristics of the listening space -- size of room, how far away is the seating area, where will the speakers be placed (near a corner, toward the middle of the room?), etc.

Absent more information, it is hard to give meaningful suggestions. I could list such wildly diverse speakers as: Edgar Horns, Classic Audio Reproduction T-1, JBL Everest, Audionote AN-E.

RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 05:22:21
Scholl
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 429
Joined: March 8, 2001
 Never talked to the guy in person but his designs make good sense, at least to me.

What's you budget?

RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 12:38:04
JoshK
Audiophile

Posts: 593
Location: NJ/NYC
Joined: August 3, 2001
 I'd probably lean the same direction, or get Geddes' kits/completed speakers. His Abbeys are ~95db IIRC. Yes you need subs but that should be the case with most systems anyway.


----------------
"When Khruschev said "we will bury you" I don't think he meant with surplus parts." zacster
RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 24, 2009 at 09:50:42
gedlee
 Hi Josh

"Yes you need subs but that should be the case with most systems anyway.
"

I do not design for LF extension because "you need subs with any system anyway." LF extension can only be done by sacrificing efficiency and only multiple subs can yield adequite bass.

Duke's Speakers, posted on October 23, 2009 at 12:20:24
Tom Brennan
Audiophile

Posts: 5063
Joined: January 2, 2000
 Instead of that fancy "audiophile" sounding name I think ole Duke ought'a simply call his speakers "Duke's Speakers".

I can see the new model now..., posted on October 23, 2009 at 16:23:30
marc g.
Audiophile

Posts: 2336
Location: New Orleans
Joined: October 14, 1999
Contributor
  Since: July 8, 2000
 The "Earl" :)
marc g. - audiophile by day, music lover by night
RE: I can see the new model now..., posted on October 23, 2009 at 16:49:42
freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 1724
Joined: December 6, 2001
 or "Summini"

Again; not really High-Eff at 92db..........................nt, posted on October 23, 2009 at 08:05:24
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 6899
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
 nt

Cut-Throat
Some are 92 and some are 95..., posted on October 23, 2009 at 16:45:08
Duke
Dealer

Posts: 3801
Location: Southern Idaho
Joined: March 31, 2000
 ... based on the T/S parameter calculated efficiency rather than the manufacturer's spec sheet. The 95 dB models are sold with matching subs.

One of my customers is a tube amp manufacturer, and he says I under-rate my speakers by about 3 dB. He's driving a 92 dB pair with a 5 watt amp.

Another tube amp manfacturer stated in an Audiogon post that a pair of my 92 dB speakers he had at his factory before a customer picked them up "behaved as if it was just as efficient" as a 101 dB rated speaker he had on hand and could compare side-by-side. If anything, the 101 dB speaker's impedance curve was a better match for his high-output-impedance amps.

So not everyone measures by the same yardstick, and I'm not changing mine. I don't want to be in the position of claiming a combination of bass extension and efficiency that is physically impossible for the size box I'm using.


Me being a dealer makes you leery?? It gets worse... I'm a manufacturer too.
RE: Some are 92 and some are 95..., posted on October 24, 2009 at 09:44:21
gedlee
Hey Duke

Was just looking at a picyure of you at Mardi Gra.

I think the whole "efficiency" thing is out of control. I use a massive speaker with enough magnet to break your back when you pick it up. It is fairly rated by B&C at 95 dB. The system CANNOT be more efficient than the lowest rated speaker, and then not even that because ALL crossovers take away power. SO anyone who claims that they get more than that I'd want to have a serious discussion with, because something is amiss.

I also saw people making fun of my speaker names. Thats OK I guess. At least they know them!!
Mardi Gras?, posted on October 24, 2009 at 13:28:50
Duke
Dealer

Posts: 3801
Location: Southern Idaho
Joined: March 31, 2000
 I'm not responsible for anything I did during Mardi Gras.

Besides, that photo could be anyone... with a birthmark... oh nevermind.



Me being a dealer makes you leery?? It gets worse... I'm a manufacturer too.
Nope not leery......................., posted on October 23, 2009 at 17:02:19
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 6899
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
 I understand - I have some 93db speakers that are driven just fine by my 1.8 watt Per channel 45 amps, so I do know that there are 'different yardsticks' - It seems, however, most Manufacturers error on the higher side of efficiency.

Too bad I didn't see them at the RMAF - 2009 a few weeks ago.


Cut-Throat
RE: Nope not leery......................., posted on October 23, 2009 at 17:34:52
Duke
Dealer

Posts: 3801
Location: Southern Idaho
Joined: March 31, 2000
 I didn't demo at RMF '09; been working on prosound stuff. My next audio show will probably be a prosound show.

The "leery" line is my signature, there 'cause I can't register as both and I'd rather err on the side of disclosure.


Me being a dealer makes you leery?? It gets worse... I'm a manufacturer too.
RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 04:33:06
FenderLover
Audiophile

Posts: 3313
Joined: July 31, 2007
Contributor
  Since: May 17, 2009
 Friend built these humungous speakers from Klipsch La Scala plans quite a few years ago. Think he ran 15-inch JBLs and large horns. Pushed with DIY 2A3 monoblock amps. Sounded very good. Think he used solid pine in the cabinets. Lent a warm, not cold tone. Speakers were quite efficient. I don't believe that I ever heard the amp clip. Even at crazy loud volumes. I remember that his system reproduced classic acoustic guitar about as close to live tone as I've heard.

RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 07:51:42
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 1013
Joined: March 8, 2002
 The biggest problem with the LaScala design is the rolled off bass. They dont convey the weight of the orchestra. They will need a sub to really make them satisfy. If you are going to use subs, there are smaller loudspeakers that can fill the bill.

RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 08:23:11
FenderLover
Audiophile

Posts: 3313
Joined: July 31, 2007
Contributor
  Since: May 17, 2009
 Yeahm his system had a Velodyne sub. Can't remember if the sub was self-powered or if he had another amp, just for the Velodynes. I know what you mean by size. They did sound pretty good, for home built.

RE: Looking for High-Efficiency Speaker, posted on October 23, 2009 at 10:06:42
freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 1724
Joined: December 6, 2001
 to save bulk vs adding subs, one can set La Scala up on a vented base around 2 cubic foot in volume that enlarges the rear chamber as DJK suggested (and treat if desired with Q~2 boost around Fb with EQ such as EV's old Interface box, or parametric) - fwiw I've run Peavey FH1 stock with 511 and tweeter on top as fake LS and it had enough weight for most pop music - low frequency rolloff on FH1 with stock PV woofer outdoors measured at 12dB/octave drop below 110Hz - in-room and against a wall it should do better - -the lack of lows might invite cranking spl up - good for headbangers (?)

Candidate, posted on October 22, 2009 at 19:29:08
Craiger56
Audiophile

Posts: 2397
Location: San Jose CA
Joined: April 3, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 29, 2003
 Always impressed when hearing these, just one vote.

Have fun

Candidate bombs!, posted on October 23, 2009 at 08:54:18
Craiger56
Audiophile

Posts: 2397
Location: San Jose CA
Joined: April 3, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 29, 2003
 I sit corrected, thanks.

Your votes?

These are not High-Eff at 90db.............................nt, posted on October 23, 2009 at 08:02:52
Cut-Throat
Audiophile

Posts: 6899
Location: Minneapolis - St.Paul Area
Joined: September 2, 2000
 nt

Cut-Throat
RE: Candidate, posted on October 23, 2009 at 07:48:48
Hornlover
Manufacturer

Posts: 1013
Joined: March 8, 2002
 I notice they mention the crossover is a 3rd order (Linkwitz/Riley). I guess they havent been told that LR alignments can only be even order.
A bit over priced, in my opinion. I have never been a fan of the MTM type designs. Extremely small sweet spot. I bet a pair of Khorns would eat their lunch. I bet a pair of the GedLee Nathans mated to a pair of subs would too, for a lot less cash.
BS, posted on October 22, 2009 at 23:36:45
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 3888
Joined: June 17, 2000
 Hope they sound better than the BS on the spec sheet.

RE: BS, posted on October 23, 2009 at 16:16:36
freddyi
Audiophile

Posts: 1724
Joined: December 6, 2001
 hi djk - that might be more bs than John Karlson's explanation of the coupler :^) messiah? madman? both?

RE: Candidate, posted on October 22, 2009 at 19:44:41
Iron Knee
Audiophile

Posts: 31
Location: Middle Florida
Joined: May 17, 2009
 90dB?


I don't know where the line is drawn but it has been suggested around 96ish, 1W/M

The room will usually add a small amount to the spec..

Page processed in 0.194 seconds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2009, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ] [ Go Green ] [ Take5 ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]