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Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers

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Posted on August 2, 2008 at 23:25:00
Mike Spence
Audiophile

Posts: 216
Location: Napier
Joined: February 20, 2005
 Hi all,
There was a thread back in June on Tom Danley's SH 50 speakers in a home (or audiophile) environment). Well, I've recently been fortunate to hear the SH 50's and wanted to share my thoughts.

I'm lucky to live not too far from some accomplished audio systems, so I have a reasonable frame of reference. I'm familiar with the sound of Acapella Violons, Klipschorns, ProAc Response 4's, and (sidelined for the duration of test) B&W N801D's. Plus of course comparable front ends and electronics.

Front end for the listening was a dCS Puccini CD player direct into a Pass X350, as used with the B&W N801D's. Additionally, a modified LFD power amp was auditioned following a successful run on the Khorns. Setup was not perfect or optimised, so I've been careful with my comments.

Firstly: These are the sort of speakers that give interior designers heart attacks. Finding a place to put them in a room is a challenge.*

Sound: These sound BIG like the Khorns yet coherent in the way that Khorns can't manage. The B&W N801D sound lightweight and a bit overly sweet in comparison. Voices on the SH 50 are a particular treat - the evenness through the midband is astonishing and make the N801D's sound compromised and relatively poorly integrated between the 15" and FST mid. The SH 50's also reveal changes in the recording mix more readily and IMHO qualify for the tag "monitor".

Initially they sounded a bit "PA" but toeing the speakers out somewhat (almost facing straight ahead) and playing with cables eliminated all but the slightest trace of this. These particular cabinets had just had the latest version of the crossover fitted and they took an hour or so to warm to the task. Removing the grilles also helped.

Dynamics and listening level were astonishing, even after regular exposure to high-eff and pro-audio drivers. The top end was clean and crisp - maybe not as nice overall as the diamond tweeter in the current B&W N801D's but almost certainly ahead of the old N801 aluminium tweeter. No sign of clatter or steeliness, or listening fatigue.

Throwing the LFD amp into the mix was interesting - sweeter up top than the Pass but not as transparent, dynamic or holographic. Interestingly, the LFD/SH 50 combo sounded comparable to the B&W/Pass combo, if you get my drift.

Summary: These speakers have SERIOUS potential in an audiophile environment, with a combination of strengths that are difficult to come by.

* or you could turn them into the world's best in-wall speakers, which would make everybody happy!
Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers - followup, posted on August 4, 2008 at 19:45:19
Mike Spence
Audiophile

Posts: 216
Location: Napier
Joined: February 20, 2005
 The B&W N801D's went back in last night. Yup, they're a great speaker too. They illuminate a midsize room better and are definitely sweet but in a good way. After the SH 50 they sound like omnipolars! They are a more comfortable and "musical" listen than the SH 50 but the SH 50 beats them hands-down in pattern control. The jury is out on microdynamics, delicacy vs. linearity. Much comes down to personal preference and situation of course. Given the option, I could definitely build a successful system (and room) around the SH 50's and be well pleased.

Cheers,
Mike
RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers - followup, posted on August 5, 2008 at 14:57:23
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Thanks for the review Mike.
Too many turn there nose up at the idea of a commercial speaker sounding good. Unofficially i agree with removing the grill, the effect is small and grills are required where they usually go but mine don't have them.

If you get a chance to try them again, for fun, try a large power amplifier, one strength they have in the home is a huge amount of headroom and very low distortion and it is amazing how much difference large power can make on dynamic program material.

I was using a Threshold stasis (200w /ch) on 50's and then had a chance to compare to some pro amps with a an A /B switcher. It was weird at levels way lower than i would have expected, the pro amp seemed more dynamic.
A check with an oscilloscope revealed that the threshold was reaching instantaneous clipping. It wasn't audible in any way unless you compared "with and without", then the unclipped was more dynamic.
Anyway, i stayed with Pro amps and pro gear has the plus of the signal paths being balanced so noise issues and magic cables are non-existent.
Best,
Tom
RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers - followup, posted on August 6, 2008 at 12:09:51
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 5944
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 I currently use a Treshold CAS-1 so I am very curious. What pro amp are you using?

TIA,

Dave

RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers - followup, posted on August 9, 2008 at 11:17:01
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi Dave

I have a QSC PL-236 that i use most of the time for the SH-50's and a Crest 4000 for the TH-50's.
The Threshold amp was a Stasis II.
In a side by side A/B listening test (some years ago now), a number of the Pro amps (a Chevin 6000, a Lab Grupen and the PL236) were indistinguishable from the threshold until the instantaneous clipping happened.
Interestingly, when one could hear differences in several other amplifiers, it always on the decay side of dynamic sounds and not obvious at all.
Best,
Tom
RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers - followup, posted on August 9, 2008 at 20:34:06
endust4237
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 161
Location: europe
Joined: February 12, 2006
 Tom is right. A capable pro amp can be very, very good with the SH 50 or with the SH 100B or SH 100.

Using pro only elements one can build a realy realistic system. In one of my systems I am using the Danley SH 100Bs with the MC2 Audio MC1250 pro 1250W@4 ohm amp and a Mytek Digital 96DAC mastering d/A converter from my Macbook through a Konnekt 8 as FW-SPDIF converter, full Evidence Audio pro cables as well (Lyric HG XLR and Siren II speaker with Source mains cable)

This system has realizm, like nothing else in my high-end audio life, and I was using an Accuphase DC-100/DP-101, Audio Note (Kondo) Kageki and and Avantgarde Trio speaker for some 7 years before. I tried the SH 100Bs with lots of different SS and tube amps, mostly sounded very good, but the Mytek DAC/MC1250 amp/SH 100B has something absolutely right in its reproduction capability.

RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers - followup, posted on August 11, 2008 at 09:37:07
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 5944
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 Thank you both for posting. I am a vintage scrounger, but pro amps do come up from time to time. Others have mentioned that QSC is very good. MC2 and Mytek new to me but you certainly are comparing it well respected gear. My Threshold CAS-1 has only 60 watts, so I may want to try something bigger.

Enjoy! The Danly Sound Labs stuff looks impressive but I have never heard it. They do sell Yorkville at Chuck Levins near me but I would expect the Danly equipment to be a cut above. The Yorkville sill should be worth a listen (and more in my price range). You have gotten me curious!

Best wishes,

Dave
RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers - followup, posted on August 11, 2008 at 15:04:00
endust4237
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 161
Location: europe
Joined: February 12, 2006
 Mytek Digital make very well respected so called mastering D/A converters mainly for mastering purposes, practically for peanuts. You easily can compare their D/As to any of the high-end makes.

MC2 Audio's amps used by one of the most famous studio monitoring speaker maker, the English Quested (their biggest 4 - way active monitor is about 70k USD, including 4 MC2 Audio amps and an XTA digital crossover) and by some other pro speaker manufacturer as an OEM product. I have several friends who changed Accuphase A50 and other really popular high-end amps (Krell, Mark Levinson, Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, etc) to the MC1250.

There is a very good chance that you have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to find something as much real, honest and entertaining as the Mytek, MC2 Audio and Danley chain. I know, I came from the other side after spending way more than 200k on high-end audio in the last 10 years :-)

Thanks! (nt), posted on August 12, 2008 at 12:51:39
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 5944
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001

RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers - followup, posted on August 7, 2008 at 13:04:00
djk
Manufacturer

Posts: 3886
Joined: June 17, 2000
 The Threshold Stasis amps I have heard sounded fantastic on horns, much better than a typical pro sound amp.

BUT.........

At the instant they clipped they sounded horrible, and as such sounded much smaller than their power ratings would suggest.

question about pro electronics, posted on August 6, 2008 at 04:07:07
hollowboy
Audiophile

Posts: 85
Location: Melbourne
Joined: June 26, 2007
 "Anyway, i stayed with Pro amps and pro gear has the plus of the signal paths being balanced so noise issues and magic cables are non-existent."

Where in the signal chain do you go from unbalanced (2-pin) to balanced (3-pin) connectors?

Presumably your source (CD, LP or PC) is unbalanced, but then..?

RE: question about pro electronics, posted on August 6, 2008 at 07:00:32
Bill Fitzmaurice
Industry Professional

Posts: 4054
Location: New England
Joined: October 20, 2002
 'Where in the signal chain do you go from unbalanced (2-pin) to balanced (3-pin) connectors?'

Pro gear runs balanced at every stage, including the CD deck.

sh-25, posted on August 4, 2008 at 14:12:42
nl
Audiophile

Posts: 559
Joined: March 18, 2002
 The SH-25s are also worth a look. The sensitivity is much higher at 110db. The narrow dispersion is probably not an issue in the home, much better than the beamy round tractrix horns everybody seems to love. However, at four feet long they are definitely a decorating challenge.

RE: sh-25, posted on August 5, 2008 at 14:08:10
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi

While the depth is approaching four feet and that sounds big for a living room, I can tell you first hand that when you have them in your living room, they seem much larger. It's more like the size of a pair of Humvee’s , they are BIG in that setting, even if you’re a speaker nut (like myself).

The sensitivity is high BUT that is because one has a narrow angle that the sound is directed into.
Also, that narrow angle makes the “pattern control loss” point higher, about an octave higher than the SH-50 which has twice the angle but same size mouth.
These boxes are normally used in groups for long throw applications, a few people put them on top of line arrays in live sound for more “reach’.

If you were going to try one of our systems in a home, I would strongly lean towards the SH-50, SH100b or in a narrow room, the SH100m mounted on the wall using the face that normally sits on the floor (no wall reflections are produced then).
In these cases especially with the 100b and 50, using a “large” power amplifier should be tried somewhere along the line because at levels FAR below clipping you can “hear”, you can have instantaneous clipping that is virtually inaudible EXCEPT when compared side by side with an un-clipped version. Then the “unclipped” sounds more dynamic.
An oscilloscope trace of the amplifier output will show this instantaneous clipping if it is present.
Basically, I found my 200W /ch Threshold Stasis ran out of gas (instantaneous clip) at levels that weren’t that loud (with dynamic recordings). Keep in mind something that has 40dB of dynamic range covers a 10,000 to 1 power ratio and 60 dB is a million to one.

If you want to hear something with no compression and deep bass, download the fireworks recording from our web site.
Because this is so taxing (and a stereo thing I’m working on) , play it over good headphones first and on speakers, approach any loudness with common sense this program material uses up headroom like theres no tomorrow..
Best,

Tom Danley
RE: sh-25, posted on September 14, 2008 at 19:40:11
doug s.
Audiophile

Posts: 1001
Joined: August 12, 2001
 hi tom,

what about the sh-lpm? this seems to have a really good frequency & phase response plot - quite smooth...

regards,

doug s.

RE: sh-25, posted on August 9, 2008 at 20:46:44
endust4237
Distributor or Rep

Posts: 161
Location: europe
Joined: February 12, 2006
 If you want a bit more broadband reproduction, deeper bass without the complexity of a sub, try the SH 100B, which is an 8 inch broadband speaker (actually an SH 100) wrapped around 4 8 inch bass speaker, as a sub. It has a very balanced sound - at least in my room with my system. The Sh 100B is not as revealing and coherent as the SH 50, but it can be very musical and not as sensitive on the partnering equipment. And do not forget about the SH 100, I like it a lot, with the TH 28 sub or without it, again very balanced, dynamic and musical sound for any kind of music.

I'm confused by the sensitivity, posted on August 7, 2008 at 10:24:52
GGA
Audiophile

Posts: 270
Joined: December 4, 2001
 At 100dB sensitivity the SH 50 can produce 124dB at 1m with 128W with a 200W Threshold amp. Even if we knock off 10dB (probably too much) for sitting at 3m that is still 114dB at the sitting position, a fairly frightening level.

It is confusing to me why the Threshold amp would be clipping as wouldn't that mean it is being asked to produce more that 114dB at the listening position? Or am I looking at this from the wrong point of view?

RE: I'm confused by the sensitivity, posted on August 7, 2008 at 11:18:54
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi

All this depends on how dynamic the program material is and how your measuring SPL.

If one played any pop music off FM, one finds that 200W is WAY WAY more than needed for comfortable listening, here the difference between the quietest and loudest parts are at most 6 to 10 dB apart.
At the far extreme if you had a recording that had a 70dB difference between the loudest and quietest parts (a CD can hold about 96dB dynamic range)this requires 10,000,000 times more power for the peaks than the lowest levels.

Sound level is usually measured with a sound level meter and then is often A,B,C or D "weighted" which makes the reading closer to how loud it is subjectively (your ears being much less sensitive to lows and highs then in the middle.)
Unless the meter has a specific "peak hold" function, then what the meter reads is an integrated signal, in other words it shows an average over some time period.
The actual peak levels can be much greater than what a meter moment can indicate though, the actual peak SPL is taken from the peak microphone Voltage.

For example, with the ubiquitous Pink noise used for Audio testing, this signal has a peak to average ratio of 6dB (much less than a good recording).
At a meter, if one fed the SH-50 with 1Watt of pink noise, one finds the average level is about 100dB.
The average power is 1 Watt BUT the peak power (and the size amplifier you need) is 4 Watts, +6dB over 1Watt average.
Similarly, while the sound level meter says 100dB, the peak sound levels are +6 greater.

There is an uncompressed "quiet" recording on our web site that gobbles up dynamic range while not sounding loud at all. Try the fireworks recording on our web site, try headphones first.

Hope this makes sense.
Best,
Tom
a question for Mr. Danley:, posted on August 5, 2008 at 21:06:56
Gera
Audiophile

Posts: 144
Joined: April 23, 2000
 What is your opinion on using the Yorkville brand Unity horn (the U15 horn section would be crossed over to a self made mid bass horn or a bass reflex or open baffle woofer) in a home environment, it being affordable for the DIY population? I would not be able to afford or fit the SH-50 in my room, so the the Yorkville horn, which is about 15" in diameter seems to be a reasonable alternative since the Lambda Unity horn is no longer being sold.
Can you recommend a good sounding compression driver for the Unity horn. I know the Yorkville U15 uses the BMS 4550 driver -- is this what YOU would recommend?
I have the Altec 806 and JBL 2470 drivers, do you have experience with these on your horns?
In my opinion the JBL are much better sounding up to 10kHz. But then they roll off sharply and need a super tweeter.

Thanks,
Herman

RE: a question for Mr. Danley:, posted on August 7, 2008 at 11:24:55
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi

I don't know about the DIY part but the BMS drivers like the 4550 you mention have worked very well on conical shaped horns.
They have an interior geometry which lends it to that application.
I have not tried them on many other kinds of horns, except for an Altec 511 and it worked very well of that too.
So far as hf extension, the BMS guys go up "high" happily.
Best,
Tom
RE: a question for Mr. Danley:, posted on August 8, 2008 at 11:07:53
pcasper
Audiophile

Posts: 20
Joined: August 8, 2008
 Mr. Danley,

I am intensely interested in your SH-50 speakers for home theater use. I now use Avantgarde DUOs, but after 8 years i am ready to try something new.

Is it possible to PM you regarding a demo in Gainesville, GA? I only live 2 hours away. My email address is:

k4hkx(at)paulcasper(dot)com

Thank you very much,

Paul

RE: a question for Mr. Danley:, posted on August 9, 2008 at 14:46:58
Ivan Beaver
 People are always welcome to come by for a demo. Just be sure to make an appointment first. Just about the entire line is setup all the time. It is setup for stereo, mono, 7.1 etc. with relay switchers being used to swapout different loudspeakers.

You are also welcome to bring anything (loudspeakers or material) you would like to do a side by side demo with. That is the best way to really evaluate a couple of different products.

Just be aware that there is no eq used in the demo room. The only signal processing used is a low pass filter on the subs. So there are no "magic" tricks being played.

RE: a question for Mr. Danley:, posted on August 9, 2008 at 11:21:50
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi

Unfortunately i can't help much on sales issues but i will pass this on to Mike. I know they have been busy with out of town visitors at the shop last week so to be safe i'll give you his E-mail too.
Contact him about coming to the shop for a demo and have fun!.
mike(at symbol)danleysoundlabs.com
Best,

Tom

More house friendy are the Yorkville U15...., posted on August 4, 2008 at 13:17:55
Gera
Audiophile

Posts: 144
Joined: April 23, 2000
 Yorkville U15:

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=38&id=254

Heard these at a local jazz club and they are awesome! They also use the Unity horn but a conical, with BMS compression tweeter.
The dynamics, clarity, coherence are just amazing.

Another idea is to get the Yorkville U15 conical horns, they are about $80 each, get the drivers separately and build a magnificent all horn system.

-Herman

Anyone know what are the drivers used in Danley Labs horns?, posted on August 5, 2008 at 13:54:37
Gera
 Also, what are the mids in the Yorkville U15's ?

RE: More house friendy are the Yorkville U15...., posted on August 5, 2008 at 04:58:06
Ivan Beaver
Manufacturer

Posts: 135
Location: Atlanta GA
Joined: September 1, 2007
 While the basic technologies used in both products are close to the same, the end result in performance is not. WHen you are talking accurate reproduction, the U15 in nowhere near the SH50.

The U15 is a fine box in its price range, but I do not know of anybody who would suggest it as a playback system for HI-FI guys.

RE: More house friendy are the Yorkville U15...., posted on August 5, 2008 at 05:04:28
TDM
Manufacturer

Posts: 30
Location: Ontario, Canada
Joined: December 17, 2002
Actually Ivan I know several people that use U15's in their homes (I'm one of them) and when set up properly can have excellent results....

Todd Michael
Yorkville Sound
VTC Pro Audio

RE: More house friendy are the Yorkville U15...., posted on November 1, 2009 at 17:57:55
jaimo_prorec
 Hello Todd,

I have been using a pair of U215's in a domestic environment for about 18 months. They sound great but can be improved for home use. I am currently torn between trying to domesticate the U215's or switch to a SH50.

I am in Toronto and would like some info on how I can tame these diamonds in the rough. Pls pm me to discuss

Rgds
Jay

RE: More house friendy are the Yorkville U15...., posted on August 5, 2008 at 10:38:01
Ivan Beaver
Manufacturer

Posts: 135
Location: Atlanta GA
Joined: September 1, 2007
 I didn't say they could not be used in a home setup. I wasn't meaning to sound like I was coming down on the U15. In it's range it is really hard to touch performance wise.

However, I know lots of people buy the U15's thinking they are the same thing as the Danley products, just at a cheaper price, which is not the case-there is a difference. That is all I was trying to say.

RE: More house friendy are the Yorkville U15...., posted on August 5, 2008 at 13:28:01
TDM
Manufacturer

Posts: 30
Location: Ontario, Canada
Joined: December 17, 2002
Ivan,

Please email me, if you do not have my email address Tom can give it to you.

Todd

RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers, posted on August 3, 2008 at 00:33:59
drvomir
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: July 31, 2008
 Do you mind to comment how low in the bass where they in comparison to the N801D's.

RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers, posted on August 3, 2008 at 14:15:51
Mike Spence
Audiophile

Posts: 216
Location: Napier
Joined: February 20, 2005
 Nowhere near as much low bass as the N801D's - they don't claim to go as low, rolling off at 50Hz. A sub is pretty much essential. In some ways this makes them easier to deal with, regarding room modes etc. We were listening with a single Velodyne 15" sub, which ran out of steam at times :-)

RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers, posted on August 3, 2008 at 15:30:39
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi
Thanks for the report, I can’t help but think these might sell into homes except of course for the wife un- friendly looks / size.
I had designed a subwoofer “to keep up with” the SH-50, a TH-50, but it is even less living room friendly. Two is certainly “enough” for movies in a living room and four in the Imax theater at Navy Pier in Chicago are (according to the installer) plenty for that room and flat to nearly 10Hz.
Best,
Tom Danley
RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers, posted on August 5, 2008 at 05:56:32
drvomir
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: July 31, 2008
 Hello "tomservo"

Please if you could answer couple of questions. I've e-mailed your company but it is probably better to ask in a forum.

- Is the model SH-50 (and also other ones) time phase coherent? I can not clearly understand all the technical expressions...?
- My understanding (based on little hi-fi knowledge) is that you achieved kind of breakthrough in certain aspect, are there any this design known "drawbacks" remaining at all?
- Is there eventually a home product line (for relatively smaller rooms) planned?
- Kind of a SH-50 which goes lower, for home use, is this possible? :-D

Others inputs too would be appreciated off course.

RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers, posted on August 5, 2008 at 14:37:50
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi
Time coherent / phase coherent means different things in hifi.

A problem with all loudspeakers is that they spread out a signal in time.

If you fed a short imaginary signal that contains the entire spectrum to a single driver loudspeaker, you find the high frequencies emerge first and low frequencies last. The speaker is an "all pass" filter.
As soon as you have a multiway speaker, then one normally adds more dispersion in time because of the crossover and sometimes source position differences.
The idea with this type of source is that the goal is to make all of the drivers and each range add together such that what comes out appears to be a single drivers radiation.
Further, by taking advantage of horn loading and the physical geometry, it is possible to make the speaker have so little time dispersion that it can reproduce a square wave over a broad band. Not quite as good as a Manger but close and goes 40dB louder with vastly less distortion for a given SPL.
In the case of the SH-50, it preserves the input waveshape from about 220Hz to about 3KHz. While there are a few 2 and 3 way speakers that can re-produce a square wave over some bandwidth, all are strongly position dependent, if you move up or down or left or right anywhere near crossover, its gone due to different distances to the drivers.
The addition in the horn eliminates that problem and also absent in this design are lobes and nulls one normally finds in the spatial radiation pattern..

Anyway, the geometry that allows it to work acoustically combined with accurate raw measurements and such, I (actually Mr Pentium) usually can usually do a decent job aligning the time element and response with a passive crossover.
How flat you can make it depends partly on how many parts you can devote. The crossover on the SH-50 probably weighs 20+lb.

The bottom line is the active versions can usually be made flatter as you have eq points freely available in the DSP and sometimes the time can be better.
In the end though you are adding a number of electronic stages and at that level, you may hear slight differences but it is normally not a case where one sounds better, just a little different.
I would go with passive versions because it is simpler, you can try different amplifiers and such.
Best,
Tom
Questions for Tom Danley, posted on August 4, 2008 at 01:25:37
PK
Audiophile

Posts: 440
Joined: April 6, 2001
 Hi Tom,

I have heard a lot of great stuff about the SH-50's and have two questions that I hope you will respond to:

1. Would you recommend the passive or the active (DSP based) version of the SH-50 for home use?
2. Can the SH-50's be heard anywhere in the vicinity of Denmark?

Thanks!

Kind regards
Peter (from Denmark)

RE: Questions for Tom Danley, posted on August 5, 2008 at 14:43:20
tomservo
Manufacturer

Posts: 2517
Joined: July 4, 2002
 Hi

I hope you don't mind, i just posted above on the active issue so i'm just going to paste that text here too.

A problem with all loudspeakers is that they spread out a signal in time.

If you fed a short imaginary signal that contains the entire spectrum to a single driver loudspeaker, you find the high frequencies emerge first and low frequencies last. The speaker is an "all pass" filter.
As soon as you have a multiway speaker, then one normally adds more dispersion in time because of the crossover and sometimes source position differences.
The idea with this type of source is that the goal is to make all of the drivers and each range add together such that what comes out appears to be a single drivers radiation.
Further, by taking advantage of horn loading and the physical geometry, it is possible to make the speaker have so little time dispersion that it can reproduce a square wave over a broad band. Not quite as good as a Manger but close and goes 40dB louder with vastly less distortion for a given SPL.
In the case of the SH-50, it preserves the input waveshape from about 220Hz to about 3KHz. While there are a few 2 and 3 way speakers that can re-produce a square wave over some bandwidth, all are strongly position dependent, if you move up or down or left or right anywhere near crossover, its gone due to different distances to the drivers.
The addition in the horn eliminates that problem and also absent in this design are lobes and nulls one normally finds in the spatial radiation pattern..

Anyway, the geometry that allows it to work acoustically combined with accurate raw measurements and such, I (actually Mr Pentium) usually can usually do a decent job aligning the time element and response with a passive crossover.
How flat you can make it depends partly on how many parts you can devote. The crossover on the SH-50 probably weighs 20+lb.

The bottom line is the active versions can usually be made flatter as you have eq points freely available in the DSP and sometimes the time can be better.
In the end though you are adding a number of electronic stages and at that level, you may hear slight differences but it is normally not a case where one sounds better, just a little different.
I would go with passive versions because it is simpler, you can try different amplifiers and such.

As far as Denmark, i know there are some in Europe but i will have to hand that off to someone from work who actually knows.
Best,
Tom Danley
RE: Questions for Tom Danley, posted on August 5, 2008 at 22:52:18
PK
Audiophile

Posts: 440
Joined: April 6, 2001
 Hi Tom,

Thanks a lot for the thorough reply! I would really love to hear the SH-50's!

Kind regards
Peter

RE: Questions for Tom Danley, posted on August 6, 2008 at 06:28:17
Kim Schultz
Audiophile

Posts: 84
Joined: July 19, 2003
 Peter, if you find some SH-50 in Denmark please let me know.
I have wanted to hear these speakers ever since I learned about them.

Do you still use the BMS drivers in the long horns ?

Regards
Kim

RE: Questions for Tom Danley, posted on August 6, 2008 at 07:59:41
PK
Audiophile

Posts: 440
Joined: April 6, 2001
 Hi Kim,

I will let you know for sure if the SH-50's turn up near by:-) I really hope to get a chance to hear them - and maybe eventually buy them!

Regarding the BMS 4592 ND coax drivers:
They do a lot of things well: They are very clear and dynamic and gives you the rare upportunity to have what resembles a "point source" from app. 300 Hz and all the way up in the right horn. However, I never got them to sound as natural as the AER MD3's, that I used to have, on for instance human (female) voices. On the other hand the BMS never get 'thin' sounding on rock music as the AER's, and can play MUCH louder(!) To me the BMS coax'es are slightly harsh sounding in the treble. This may be dealt with by modifying the coax driver mechanically like Bert Doppenberg has done in his Orphean speakers. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to hear Bert's speakers, but I would like to! I do not myself have the skills (or the guts!) to try to mod the BMS driver. So, now I have decided to drop the BMS coax. They are replaced by a 2" Community M200 driver and a 1" B&C DE25 crossed actively at 3400 Hz. The Community/B&C combo sound somewhat more relaxed than the BMS, but does not go as low as the BMS. So I will eventually have to make it a 4-way incorporating a low-mid horn covering the 150-600/800 Hz range. My bass horns sound best when crossed over below 200 Hz....

It is no simple task to get a DIY horn rig to sound well (at least not to me). That is another reason why the SH-50's appear so attractive!

Kind regards
Peter

RE: Questions for Tom Danley, posted on August 7, 2008 at 06:51:19
Kim Schultz
Audiophile

Posts: 84
Joined: July 19, 2003
 Hi Peter.

I have 7Pi´s at the moment and like them very much, but the SH-50 just looks so tempting :)
And the idea of a nearly pointsource is very intriguing.

Maybe you can use the midhorn from the 7Pi in your speaker.

Regards
Kim
RE: Questions for Tom Danley, posted on August 7, 2008 at 07:50:30
PK
Audiophile

Posts: 440
Joined: April 6, 2001
 Hi Kim,

Well, I have actually drawn a scaled-up version of the 7Pi conical horn in order to make it load down to 160-170 Hz in half-space (my horns are only 60 degree horizontal though, not 90) The drawing is at a local carpenter at the moment, and I am very curiuous about how it will behave with the Fane Studio 8M drivers I have for them....

Kind regards
Peter

RE: Danley Sound Labs SH 50 speakers, posted on August 3, 2008 at 16:56:16
Mike Spence
Audiophile

Posts: 216
Location: Napier
Joined: February 20, 2005
 No problem Tom, based on what I've heard these need wider audition. Certainly anyone building a room from scratch should hear these first.
Best,
Mike

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