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Any opinions on Mariss Jansons Rite of Spring and Firebird suite on RSO Live SACD?

70.143.70.143
Posted on October 20, 2009 at 19:38:20
RLF
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Posts: 459
Joined: July 22, 2000
 I have both the Telarc SACDs of the Firebird, and the Sony SACD conducted by Stravinsky himself. I also have the Reference HDCD of the Rite of Spring.

Does anyone have this SACD on the RCO Live label with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra? If so how does in compare with the others mentioned above in performance and sonics? I'm especially interested in the sound.

Thanks
To get back to your original question. . ., posted on October 22, 2009 at 16:18:19
Chris from Lafayette
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Location: SF Bay Area
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 . . . yes, I do have the Jansons/RCOA RCO Live SACD of Firebird and Rite of Spring. I was going to listen to it again before I replied, but I just haven't had time. Of the four SACD's I have of the Rite of Spring, I would rate the Jansons very highly. It does not have the solidity and impact of the Dorati performance (it's a bit more airy), but it has more color and personality. I like these two performances equally well despite their vastly different approaches.

The Salonen/LAPO SACD on DG certainly has plenty of impact, but I just find that DG's usual forest of microphones produces such an artificial sound that the performance is undermined by the engineering. I also think that the low bass is artificially emphasized on this recording.

I used to own the Stravinsky-conducted performances on the Sony SACD. I found these performances quite striking, with unique details and balances that I've never heard in other recordings. Having said that, I wouldn't say that the composer's renditions are necessarily better than Dorati's or Jansons'. Another minus (at least for me) with Stravinsky's own recording is that it's two-channel only.

RE: To get back to your original question. . ., posted on October 23, 2009 at 19:24:31
RLF
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Posts: 459
Joined: July 22, 2000
 Thanks for your detailed reply. I did get the Jansons/RCOA and listened to both the Firebird and The Right of Spring last night. I must say that I am most impressed in the sound and find it very well recorded and the performance quite good too although I am not the best critic on performances. I also have Reference Recordings with Eiji Oue and the Dorati on MLP which I haven't listened to either in a while.

My main criticism of the Stravinsky's performance on Sony was the lack of dynamics in the low end. I still own it but didn't realize that these Sony single layer 2 channel SACDs are now worth more than new. Since my system and Ayre player is only 2 channel, multichannel is not an issue with me.

I think I'm getting senile sometimes, posted on October 24, 2009 at 00:00:55
Chris from Lafayette
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Location: SF Bay Area
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 I just realized that my comments above made it appear as if I was referring to the Rite of Spring when I referred to the Dorati SACD. I of course meant Dorati's Firebird. (I was writing Rite of Spring, but I was somehow thinking Firebird.) As Glen Gould would say, I caution myself to be more aware of what I'm doing/writing next time. :-)

RE: To get back to your original question. . ., posted on October 23, 2009 at 22:42:03
jazz1
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Posts: 959
Joined: October 30, 2000
"My main criticism of the Stravinsky's performance on Sony was the lack of dynamics in the low end."

I am surprised at this comment as I think that the low end and the brass are the high points of the recordings of the Stravinsky plays Stravinsky"

RE: To get back to your original question. . ., posted on October 24, 2009 at 18:43:12
RLF
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Posts: 459
Joined: July 22, 2000
 In my comment regarding the "lack of dynamics in the low end" of the Sony Stravinsky performance, I meant the feeling of the power of the orchestra which I believe is conveyed better in the newer recordings such ans the Janson SACD and the Reference Recording HDCD by Eiji Oue. Of course no recording can begin to convey the power of the orchestra when things are going full tilt in comarison to listening to a live performace of these works.

I admit that it has been a long time since I've listened to the Stravinsky Sony SACD however and plan to do so soon. Perhaps my perception will change in this regard when I listen to it again?

I have the Salonen SACD, posted on October 23, 2009 at 19:00:11
Botanico92007
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Location: San Diego
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 This SACD got rave reviews in the SoCal press. I was very disappointed the first time I listened and have never listened again. The sound presentation is unreal. The whole sound of the orchestra is thrown off by the bass heaviness, and I can't make any sense of the orchestral layout. The actual execution of the piece is good, but the sound is a huge barrier for me. I'm happy to hear that I'm not the only one who is unsatisfied with the recording.

I heard the FM broadcast of this and thought the sound much better. It must have been from a different microphone feed.

RE: Any opinions on Mariss Jansons Rite of Spring and Firebird suite on RSO Live SACD?, posted on October 20, 2009 at 21:45:25
jazz1
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Posts: 959
Joined: October 30, 2000
 I have quite a few "Rite of spring" incl on SACD's (No RCO) but to my mind nothing comes close to the Stravinsky conduct Stravinsky, pity it is not on SACD but the audio is pretty good. This really demonstrate
how important the performance is. What a marvellous set (22 cd's)
If you have a few SACD's with good sound why bother, none will give you the same thrill.

Igor Stravinsky (conductor) - Rite of Spring on SACD (Hey 10th Anniversary!), posted on October 20, 2009 at 22:09:11
Robert C. Lang
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 Stravinsky conducts Stravinsky - Le Sacre du printemps, L'Oiseau de Feu
was one of my very first batch of SACDs, I think in 1999.

That reminds me, it has been 10 years (October 1999) that I purchased my first SACD player, the SCD-1.

Happy Birthday!



Robert C. Lang
RE: Igor Stravinsky (conductor) - Rite of Spring on SACD (Hey 10th Anniversary!), posted on October 26, 2009 at 02:49:03
Johnno
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Posts: 77
Location: Lower Hutt
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 Have I really had this wonderful SACD for 10 years? For me, it's still the standard by which others are judged and the sound is big and bold and suits the work and performance to a T. The Firebird suite is excellent too, but I prefer the full ballet and for me Antal Dorati sets th standard there.

Sadly out of print, posted on October 21, 2009 at 22:41:55
TGR
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Posts: 1101
Location: No. California
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 I just checked a number of sources.....there was a used one on Amazon for $154....this is the kind of thing that I should have snapped up when available. I must have told myself that because I already had it on LP (in the set Nine Masterpieces Conducted by the Composer, a real beauty) and on RBCD. Thinking that I need to pick up Walter's recording of Beethoven's 6th before it's gone, even though I have it on LP and open reel.....

RE: Sadly out of print, posted on October 22, 2009 at 08:39:15
Mali
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Posts: 655
Location: Wyoming
Joined: June 12, 2003
Contributor
  Since: November 11, 2009
 Look here. Several used copies apparently available at reasonable prices, one new at $60. The product description and reviews are for a different cd, but hopefully the listings are for the SACD shown at the top.

Thanks!, posted on October 22, 2009 at 15:19:44
TGR
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Posts: 1101
Location: No. California
Joined: March 22, 2004
 You did a better job of searching than I did. I only found one at an outrageous price.

RE: Igor Stravinsky (conductor) - Rite of Spring on SACD (Hey 10th Anniversary!), posted on October 21, 2009 at 09:01:43
RLF
Audiophile

Posts: 459
Joined: July 22, 2000
 Yes, thats the one that I've owned for years too and indeed a great performance as it should as it should be from the Composer himself.

I guess that after attending a live performance of "The Rite of Spring" that no recording can even come close to the excitement of hearing the real deal.

RE: Igor Stravinsky (conductor) - Rite of Spring on SACD (Hey 10th Anniversary!), posted on October 20, 2009 at 22:38:24
jazz1
Audiophile

Posts: 959
Joined: October 30, 2000
 I did not know about this one!! but I see that the current prices are crazy, I bought the 22 cd's set for less than 25$ incl shipping and as I said the sound is pretty good in actual fact better than some of my other Rite on SACD's. And most of the recordings and performances are 1 st class. This to me was the music bargain of the year.

RE: Igor Stravinsky (conductor) - Rite of Spring on SACD (Hey 10th Anniversary!), posted on October 21, 2009 at 15:53:22
Mali
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Posts: 655
Location: Wyoming
Joined: June 12, 2003
Contributor
  Since: November 11, 2009
 Actually, Stravinsky was not highly regarded as a conductor of his own works. He was regularly panned by the critics. That didn't stop me from getting a three Lp box set from Columbia Record Club of the three great ballets conducted by him, the "Columbia Symphony" performances, back in say '62, and enjoying them immensely. I may still have that set stashed away somewhere. I had a coupon a free record, and I sent it in with a note that I wanted that set even though it was nowhere to be found in the club catalog. Low and behold, they sent it anyway even though my coupon was supposedly for just one record. Something like that wouldn't happen nowadays, I don't suppose, when everything is so impersonal. You other old timers may remember the club and its address in of all places Terre Haute, Indiana. (Columbia may have had a manufacturing facility there.) Anyway, as jazz 1 says, those recordings are in the big box set of the complete Stravinsky now available. Every "serious" music lover should have it.

Critical reaction to Stravinsky as a conductor, posted on October 21, 2009 at 16:43:52
TGR
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Posts: 1101
Location: No. California
Joined: March 22, 2004
 I think the critical view of his conducting was far more mixed than you suggest, and if we were to look at the "pans" vs the "raves" or at least the view that there is something special about a composer led recording, we would find that the pans were below half, maybe even well below half.

I think the Stravinsky led recordings are an essential part of one's library, and can be/should be supplemented by others. I think the Dorati Firebird is a fantastic reading, for example, with great sonics.

The Stravinsky set is a steal on RBCD....if only it had been teed up for SACD!

RE: Critical reaction to Stravinsky as a conductor, posted on October 21, 2009 at 16:52:02
Mali
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Posts: 655
Location: Wyoming
Joined: June 12, 2003
Contributor
  Since: November 11, 2009
 Not sure about that. I certainly remember the negative reviews of his conducting his own works, but it was a long time ago. Here's something on the subject.

http://www.answers.com/topic/stravinsky-conduts-his-own-works

RE: Critical reaction to Stravinsky as a conductor, posted on October 21, 2009 at 22:06:25
TGR
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Posts: 1101
Location: No. California
Joined: March 22, 2004
 Well, here's a typical example of what I mean - Jeff Distler in Classics Today:

True, there are recorded interpretations of certain Stravinsky works that are slicker and better engineered. Few, however, match the authority and sense of occasion you get from the proverbial horse's mouth.

Or how about this from Gramophone:

.....This applied even to Stravinsky's second recording of Sacre, which was in places very ragged, but it is far truer of this new one. There are one or two patches of slightly loose rhythm (less than in either Ansermet's or Monteux's recordings) but apart from that Stravinsky secures a magnificent performance. It is above all with the vitality of his rhythm and phrasing that he scores

I could go on.

RE: Critical reaction to Stravinsky as a conductor, posted on October 21, 2009 at 23:25:33
jazz1
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Posts: 959
Joined: October 30, 2000
 Again I am not an expert on Stravinsky but his interpretations give me more thrills than any others I've heard.
As far as the audio quality I think that even the RBCD is extremely good, the brass are brash, the drums are tight etc, as far as I am concerned the sound suits the music perfectly, and the consistency right through the 22 cd's set is good, maybe 3 or 4 cd's are sounding dated.
All the ballets are extremely good, for audio my fav is Petroushka.

RE: Critical reaction to Stravinsky as a conductor, posted on October 22, 2009 at 09:04:17
Mali
Audiophile

Posts: 655
Location: Wyoming
Joined: June 12, 2003
Contributor
  Since: November 11, 2009
 I'm not an expert either, but just reporting what I'd heard. Personally, I find his versions just fine. BTW, look above for a possible source for that SACD.

RE: Critical reaction to Stravinsky as a conductor, posted on October 22, 2009 at 09:50:31
jazz1
Audiophile

Posts: 959
Joined: October 30, 2000
 On this particular work I am very happy with the RBCD sound

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