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Universal player that does good SACD

68.38.114.59
Posted on September 27, 2009 at 15:19:42
Aeolian65
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: March 18, 2009
 Hi, folks--this is my first post, so go easy on me. I'm looking for recommendations for a decent DVD/universal player that has good SACD playback. Budget is around $1,000 new or used. I listen mostly to classical, both orchestral and chamber ensembles. I'm considering a used McCormack UDP-1, but don't really know what else is out there that might be better than that.

Thanks in advance.

Jack

RE: Universal player that does good SACD, posted on October 1, 2009 at 18:56:32
HighEndWire
Audiophile

Posts: 1317
Joined: August 2, 2002
 Cambridge Audio is also coming out with a player - see link

RE: Universal player that does good SACD, posted on October 1, 2009 at 19:11:37
Fitzcaraldo215
Audiophile

Posts: 355
Location: Philadelphia
Joined: September 7, 2008
 It's an Oppo BDP-83 under the covers, presumably with some mods, but for more money, as is the new $3,500 Lexicon.

RE: Universal player that does good SACD, posted on October 1, 2009 at 19:43:44
Ric Schultz
Manufacturer

Posts: 462
Joined: August 7, 2000
 It might be made in the same factory as the Oppo but it is not the same....no way. The fact that the analog output jacks are in the middle of the player means its cannot be the same as that is where the main board is in the Oppo. It has to be a different main board and different output stage board....maybe all on one board (Oppo uses separate board for analog output DACs and stages. Also the spec sheet says it uses lesser quality Cirrus DACs.....nope, not the same.

RE: Universal player that does good SACD, posted on October 1, 2009 at 19:21:04
HighEndWire
Audiophile

Posts: 1317
Joined: August 2, 2002
 Interesting, the Lexicon is much more obvious as all the jacks are in the same spot. On the Cambridge the jacks and faceplate at least look different.

Thanks for all the input. It's been helpful N/T, posted on September 29, 2009 at 14:31:04
Aeolian65
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: March 18, 2009
 .

RE: Universal player that does good SACD, posted on September 28, 2009 at 19:00:20
DKL
Audiophile

Posts: 531
Location: Orlando, FL
Joined: November 20, 2001
 I can vouch for the UDP-1. I've owned both the standard and "Deluxe" versions, and both have been above expectations. The Deluxe version is certainly better, but either will serve you well...

I like the Pioneer DV-58AV., posted on September 28, 2009 at 14:27:28
glennw
Audiophile

Posts: 1087
Joined: May 7, 2002
 It's less than half your budgeted amount but I like this unit a lot for a universal player. Nice build quality, excellent sound (to me at least) on DVD-A, SACD, and CD. I'm using the box to populate my PC-based music server and the results are very good.

I believe this unit also got nice comments from a Stereophile reviewer (Kal Rubinson IIRC) who was glad to find a good-sounding universal player that didn't compromise one format or another too much, and had a high quality analog stage.

I listen mostly to classical also, FWIW.

Good luck!

Third that-love mine, posted on September 29, 2009 at 09:37:26
padreken
Audiophile

Posts: 7197
Joined: November 28, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 It replaced a Sony 333ES SACD changer that is now relegated to the second system-it's a great player with a full, rich midrange. I prefer it to the Sony.

The disc loading/track change response time is a little slower than I'd like, but that's a minor quibble-the build quality is excellent and it makes for a great legacy digital player.




Second the Pioneer DV-58AV., posted on September 28, 2009 at 19:15:50
PeterCapo
Audiophile

Posts: 183
Location: New England
Joined: January 5, 2001
I'll second the DV-58AV. I have one and it sounds pretty good, better in some ways than my Marantz SA8260, which previously received a Class A rating from Stereophile.

Vanns.com has it for a good price.

You have a nice system there......, posted on September 28, 2009 at 10:14:49
Sordidman
Dealer

Posts: 9251
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 This is just my dumb opinion, - please take it with a big dose of salt...

But, - with respect, - here goes.

You've taken the time to assemble some really good components in your speakers and amplification. To get a commensurate level of performance, and match up your source for best system synergy, - I'd be willing to argue that you're not going to find a universal player under $5,000: especially if you're interested in getting good redbook AND good SACD.

If you're a classical fan, - I'd look into buying a good used SACD player, and then buying an external Stello or Benchmark DAC to improve upon the poor redbook performance of these players.

If you're not a classical fan, - I suggest looking at some of the very good redbook players like the Audio Aero, the Stello two box combo, the Jolida, or the Arcam. Those would be four good, yet different, redbook players that might provide great synergy with your speakers and amps. Since there aren't really that many non-classical SACD discs out there, - it's not worth paying the extra money for: then getting into the situation where the manufacturer is making crap redbook sections to make their SACD section sound good. (Although, there have been a number of folks here singing the praises of the new Sony 5400, - I have not heard it yet).

Unfortunately, good digital is very expensive, - there're just no $500 to $1000 "giant killers" out there like there are with speakers, and somewhat, amplification.

Just my take.

Surrendered to self preservation,
From others who care for themselves.
A blindness that touches perfection,
But hurts just like anything else.
RE: You have a nice system there......, posted on September 28, 2009 at 13:18:58
Aeolian65
Audiophile

Posts: 10
Joined: March 18, 2009
 Thanks for the advice. Yes, classical is my primary interest, though I don't really expect to get good RB AND good SACD for what I want to spend; I'd just like something better than what I've gotten from some other DVD players I've tried like the Oppo 981 and Sony 999es.

Good deal..., posted on September 28, 2009 at 13:57:37
Sordidman
Dealer

Posts: 9251
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 Thanks for the info.

I'd say to take a serious look at a used Marantz SA11 v1 or a SA11b and then a listen with the Sony 5400. If you hear better redbook from a DAC or by plugging in a DAC, - then buy it later on. Benchmark even used to offer a 30 day trial.

I always thought that the $3K retail Marantz players, (which you can probably get used for a little more than or right around $1K), sounded pretty good with SACD.

Anyway,

good luck.


Surrendered to self preservation,
From others who care for themselves.
A blindness that touches perfection,
But hurts just like anything else.
I suggest buying new instead of used, posted on September 28, 2009 at 08:01:34
racerguy
 A potential problem with used audiophile disc players is that way too many audiophiles abuse the crap out of them through misguided "break-in" procedures. These procedures often involve accelerated transport wear from being set on endless repeat for hundreds of hours.

As a second owner, you would be more likely to experience failures and out-of-warranty repair costs.

As Blu-ray becomes more popular, the price of DVD-based "universal" players is dropping significantly. There are some great deals to be had. Lots of brand-new players for just a few hundred dollars being blown-out. If you can spend a bit more, I've seen the excellent Lexicon RT-20 player (which is based on a Marantz DV-9500) being blown-out NIB for $1499, which is a great price for this player. It originally retailed for $4995. The local hi-fi retailer in my area has a couple in stock, and I'm sure there are other dealers out there with similar deals.

RE: Universal player that does good SACD, posted on September 28, 2009 at 07:58:10
Frank I
Audiophile

Posts: 745
Joined: December 9, 2001
 Marantz DV6001 does all real well and could be purchase 249.00 new at Music Direct its as good as my Sony 999es and has everything but the kitchen sink. Well reviewed in Absolute Sound

Careful.........., posted on September 28, 2009 at 11:46:37
mcondo
Audiophile

Posts: 533
Joined: May 12, 2002
 If you watch DVD concerts the DV6001 I purchased (and returned) had lip sych problems that were unacceptable.

Primare DVD 30, posted on September 27, 2009 at 21:30:22
jazz1
Audiophile

Posts: 959
Joined: October 30, 2000
 I have a friend that owns this machine and it does sound pretty good, it is more than 1000$ new but I've seen a few on Audiogon going for around
this price. It is well build, looks good and seems problem free.

How about the Oppo BDP-83 BluRay player, posted on September 27, 2009 at 15:57:45
Metralla
Audiophile

Posts: 6417
Location: San Jose, California
Joined: January 30, 2001
 $500. Stereophile ranked this in the A+ class when used as a transport. Through the analogue outputs the sound "could not match the dynamic subtelty and range of the Sony SCD-XA5400ES" but that's an excellent player. Performance approached the $2000 Denon DVD-3800BDCI player.

It plays everything.

Regards,
Geoff
RE: How about the Oppo BDP-83 BluRay player, posted on October 26, 2009 at 11:28:03
Disbeliever
 Oppo BDP-83 latest report from Oppo today 26 October 09. Issues related to popping,clicks and other audio errors during the middle of a track have been resolved. Issues related to pops, clicks and other audio erors during the transitions of tracks have not been fixed and are currently being worked on. Best regds Oppo Digital Customer Service

Bogus Class A+ Rating?, posted on September 28, 2009 at 11:31:48
audiozorro
Audiophile

Posts: 337
Location: VA-MD-DC
Joined: January 9, 2007
 You stated "Stereophile ranked this in the A+ class when used as a transport" which to me implies that analog output from the Oppo BDP-83 is not Class A+ but is either Class A or Class B.

I also thought the Class A+ rating for hi-rez players and transports are based on how they sound with their respective hi-rez media, not RDBK CD.

So what DAC is Stereophile using with the Oppo BDP-83 as a transport to justify the Class A+ rating? And what hi-rez media (Blu ray, SACD, DVD-A, or other) was tested with the Oppo and DAC to validate this rating?

Or is the Class A+ rating based on things other than SQ?

I guess I will have to read the article carefully this weekend, but I thought someone may be able to answer my questions before then.

RE: Bogus Class A+ Rating?, posted on September 28, 2009 at 15:35:26
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 7159
Joined: June 5, 2002
 "So what DAC is Stereophile using with the Oppo BDP-83 as a transport to justify the Class A+ rating?"
Meridian HD621/861 and a few others.

"And what hi-rez media (Blu ray, SACD, DVD-A, or other) was tested with the Oppo and DAC to validate this rating?"
All of them.

Kal

RE: Bogus Class A+ Rating?, posted on September 28, 2009 at 16:32:05
audiozorro
Audiophile

Posts: 337
Location: VA-MD-DC
Joined: January 9, 2007
 Thanks for the feedback. Your earlier review of the BDP-83 did not lead me to believe that it was a Class A+ component, which to me means that the Oppo sounds better than any of the Stereophile ranked Class A players/transports.

I look forward to reading the latest Stereophile review for the details.

RE: As a transport with the appropriate ancillary equipment! (NT), posted on September 28, 2009 at 18:06:26
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 7159
Joined: June 5, 2002

RE: As a transport with the appropriate ancillary equipment! (NT), posted on September 29, 2009 at 07:55:29
soulfood
Audiophile

Posts: 1500
Joined: August 9, 2001
 For such a highly anticipated unit, perhaps such a disclaimer should be clearly stated in a follow-up. I'd have to agree based on your review A or A+ was surprising.

Thanks for concurring your support for the rating on this. Since you were the primary reviewer, it helps to better understand how your reviewing enthusiasm translates to ratings, as expressed to your editor.

Which DAC is this OPPO 83 using ?, posted on September 28, 2009 at 06:06:55
akltam
Audiophile

Posts: 688
Location: Hong Kong
Joined: September 29, 2002
 TIA
Alan

Stereo: CS4398; MC: CS4382A, posted on September 29, 2009 at 05:17:57
QuadESL63
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined: December 8, 2005
 From the Unofficial OPPO BDP-83 FAQ:

"The dedicated stereo output uses the Cirrus CS4398 DAC. The multi-channel analog output uses the Cirrus CS4382A DAC."

RE: How about the Oppo BDP-83 BluRay player, posted on September 27, 2009 at 18:46:56
barondla
Audiophile

Posts: 310
Location: midwest usa
Joined: May 26, 2007
 How do you use the Oppo as a transport and keep the SACD sound? Does it send SACD via hdmi? If so what can decode the SACD signal? Right now I am using a Yamaha that does cd/sacd/dvd-a out analog. Would love the new Sony but it can't do dvd. Listen to rock so I have a fair number of dvd(a). More to come.
thanks
barondla

RE: How about the Oppo BDP-83 BluRay player, posted on September 28, 2009 at 08:38:45
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 7159
Joined: June 5, 2002
 It will output SACD via HDMI (as DSD or PCM) and via analog. As for what can handle the HDMI output, the answer is almost any processor with an HDMI input if you set the Oppo for PCM out.

It will also output all the other formats both by HDMI and analog.

Kal

RE: How about the Oppo BDP-83 BluRay player, posted on September 28, 2009 at 11:10:38
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 3065
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
Contributor
  Since: February 24, 2009
 The HDMI processor that I would buy would not be legal for sale. Until it is, I have no interest in HDMI or anything that requires it.

Worse, the people who know how to build such a device have been terrorized into keeping their mouths shut.

Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

Don't hold your breath. (NT), posted on September 28, 2009 at 13:36:09
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 7159
Joined: June 5, 2002

"The HDMI processor that I would buy would not be legal for sale", posted on September 28, 2009 at 12:19:22
QuadESL63
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined: December 8, 2005
 Really? Seriously, what does it do to render it "illegal"?

RE: "The HDMI processor that I would buy would not be legal for sale", posted on September 28, 2009 at 13:12:59
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 3065
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
Contributor
  Since: February 24, 2009
 "Seriously, what does it do to render it "illegal"?"

It would decrypt encrypted HDMI signals. Something that the MPAA and RIAA have outlawed in the United States.

Consumer products that receive HDMI are required to output only analog signals. SACD players output encrypted HDMI when outputting hi-res.




Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: "The HDMI processor that I would buy would not be legal for sale", posted on September 29, 2009 at 09:57:31
Avocat
Audiophile

Posts: 154
Location: Southwest
Joined: June 13, 2006
Contributor
  Since: April 22, 2009
It would decrypt encrypted HDMI signals. Something that the MPAA and RIAA have outlawed in the United States.

Consumer products that receive HDMI are required to output only analog signals. SACD players output encrypted HDMI when outputting hi-res.

--------------------------------------------------------------

If you have a decent processor with HDMI inputs, what's the big problem? - The signal has to be converted to analog anyway. (Unless you like to listen to digital signals thousands of Hz.)

Jim

RE: "The HDMI processor that I would buy would not be legal for sale", posted on September 29, 2009 at 11:27:05
Tony Lauck
Audiophile

Posts: 3065
Location: Vermont
Joined: November 12, 2007
Contributor
  Since: February 24, 2009
 "If you have a decent processor with HDMI inputs, what's the big problem? - The signal has to be converted to analog anyway."

If one already has made a large investment in a high quality DAC, why should one have to invest in another one? Why shouldn't one be able to enjoy the convenience of ripping SACDs to hard drive without loss of sound quality, as is the case with CD? In addition, HDMI lacks a dedicate audio clock and relying on the video clock adds even worse jitter problems than one has with SPDIF, so the sound quality is unnecessarily degraded with this interface. Not to mention, that some of the money spent on this equipment is going into the coffers of Mordor...

DRM on the disks and encryption on digital outputs are two reasons why I don't mess with SACD. These happen to be two of the reasons why SACD has failed in the marketplace, IMO.


Tony Lauck

"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

I'm disappointed that they ignored i.Link audio..., posted on September 29, 2009 at 13:21:51
QuadESL63
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined: December 8, 2005
 At one point of the time i.Link "audio" is the only way to transmit DSD stream from the transport to the pre-pro/receiver/DAC. It is still encrypted, but at least it is an audio only link and companies have derived ways to buffer the stream, etc. to minimize jitter.

It looks like the only company that still use it on their gears is Esoteric...
Yeah - Firewire, posted on September 29, 2009 at 22:45:06
Chris from Lafayette
Audiophile

Posts: 1546
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
 Last summer, I got myself a Pioneer Elite DV-79avi on eBay, when my old DV-47avi gave out. That should keep me going with iLink/Firewire/IEEE1394 for a few more years. :-)

RE: Yeah - Firewire, posted on September 30, 2009 at 08:02:25
slbenz
Audiophile

Posts: 388
Location: Northern California
Joined: October 11, 2003
 Same here with Firewire. I have my Marantz DV-9600 connected this way and it sounds excellent with any disc it plays plus the convenience of using only one wire and taking advantage of the Marantz's anti-jitter technology is a big plus.

Well there are products..., posted on September 29, 2009 at 05:14:54
QuadESL63
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined: December 8, 2005
 ... that broke/by-passed the HDCP encryption like the HDFury/HDFury2 that enabled 1080p/1088p24 to be output on older analog components/VGA input only TV/monitor/projector. You can find it on eBay.com, among other online venues. And, there are mods available for players that enabled hi-rez PCM outputs for DSD contents.

But you are right, big consumer and hi-end brands will never ever try to go against DMCA to maintain businesses in the States. Sadly, the current Canadian government is trying to pass a similar legislature...

Both DSD and PCM, posted on September 28, 2009 at 04:10:00
QuadESL63
Audiophile

Posts: 402
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Joined: December 8, 2005
 The Oppo can output DSD or decode the DSD & output hi-res PCM via its HDMI port.

"Does it send SACD via hdmi", posted on September 27, 2009 at 19:52:44
Metralla
Audiophile

Posts: 6417
Location: San Jose, California
Joined: January 30, 2001
 I imagine so. Similar in some ways to the Sony 5400, where the discrete multichannel information is only available via HDMI. I guess the digital data stream is encrypted somehow and you need some form of decryption at the other end, along with 6 DACs to produce 6 channels of analogue info for the speakers. Not an area I am familiar with.

Regards,
Geoff

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