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McIntosh SACD Player review in Stereophile

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Posted on May 15, 2009 at 14:20:13
Got the June issue, was excited to see "SACD Excellence From McIntosh" on the front cover. I looked for the review, but couldn't find it until I realized that it was ensconced in Sam Tellig's column. What a total waste of ink and paper.

I stopped reading his worthless drivel a long time ago, and this was a fresh reminder that I hadn't missed anything. All I learned from Tellig's "review" is that he still talks trash, and spends more time on useless bon mots than on audio. Too bad for McIntosh. I wonder why they wasted all that effort on Tellig - he pretty much guaranteed no one will buy the thing.

 

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RE: McIntosh SACD Player review in Stereophile, posted on May 15, 2009 at 15:52:36
>>I wonder why they wasted all that effort on Tellig - he pretty much guaranteed no one will buy the thing. <<

And you base that on WHAT evidence? Personally I have no evidence either, one way or the other, but I STRONGLY suspect you're very wrong about that. Not that it really matters. That's really not the point after all.

 

RE: McIntosh SACD Player review in Stereophile, posted on May 15, 2009 at 15:54:55
>>And you base that on WHAT evidence?<<

It's an almost totally unsubstantiated opinion. How about that? :-)

And the reason I say ALMOST totally unsubstantiated opinion is because he guaranteed that I won't buy one (and I'm part of the target market). So there's one piece of evidence! LOL

 

Well it's hard to argue..., posted on May 15, 2009 at 16:01:03
...with that.

>>And the reason I say ALMOST totally unsubstantiated opinion is because he guaranteed that I won't buy one (and I'm part of the target market). So there's one piece of evidence! LOL <<

Cheers,
Jim

 

I have never let a reviewer talk me out of something I really wanted,, posted on May 15, 2009 at 17:59:43
especially a reviewer whose biases clash with mine.

Sam Tellig is great at finding affordable high end products, but for some reason has it in for SACD because they didn't release enough Opera for him and Naxos didn't release their entire catalog on SACD. If you remember these were his demands to join the SACD revolution. My guess is if Naxos does someday come back to SACD and release their entire catalog of SACD, then Sam Tellig will be one of SACDs biggest 2 channel supporters, don't forget he hates multichannel.

Actually the only thing McIntosch wasted with Sam was marketing time and the shipping charges both ways, since they get the product back. Personally I would not have sent an SACD player to be reviewed by Sam Telig but perhaps they wanted a challenge? Remember nothing is better than praise coming from an unlikely source.

A quote from Sam Tellig's review:
"I asked Jim why the MCD 500 bothers with SACD, given the format's tenuous hold in the marketplace. Telarc, the erstwhile champion of the high-resolution disc format, has ceased in=house recording-and, apparently. given up on new SACD releases. Who will prop up SACD now and save the day for Kal Rubinson? ... The drive we chose for the MCD500 allows SACD playback" Jim explained "so there was no reason to exclude it."

Note: Does anyone besides me have doubts that this is what Jim Ludocovini of McIntosh actually said? And if he did say those words were many more important words excluded to get the meaning Sam wanted?

Jim goes onto explain the reason it is stereo instead of multichannel, Asian and European customers want 2 channel and multichannel would increase the cost drastically.

I agree that Asians mostly are into 2 channel stereo as home and apartments are generally much smaller and really don't have the needed extra space. Although I have seen photos of the insides of multilevel mansions in China some with as many as five floors and elevators that make the many of the mansions in Beverly Hills look small. But based on the posters at sa-cd.net I would think most European SACD owners listen in multichannel. I would even hazard to guess multichannel SACD may even be more popular in Europe than in the USA.

I buy the cost argument though, as using more expensive parts especially in the signal path the cost of parts would be three times as much for multichannel as stereo. And since parts costs (usually not always) account for about 10% of the selling price that would cause the retail price to jump substantially.

Some more quotes from Sam, looks like a while since he checked out sa-cd.net for new SACD releases plus a very nasty accusation that I believe is false,
"As for Chamber music releases on SACD, there are nearly none and - almost no Opera. And you thought SACD was for Classical fans"

"SACD: Born 1999 Died 2009? I didn't know, I didn't particularly care. I did discover, much to my surprise I have about 500 SACDs-most of them sonically spectacular and musically worthless. Still, it's nice to have a machine to play them . The CD layers of SACD discs almost invariably sound like sh*t. Deliberate?"
Anyone having trouble with the fact that he accidentally has 500 SACDs, I know many Classical SACDs are single inventory and he might have some of those. In a near decade of being in and out of SACD, I myself have only purchased about maybe 500 SACDs total, and only about 300 unique titles as I have purchased a few more than one. And I search out SACDs, Sam does not.

The listening tests were kinda skimpy, Sam spends half the review trying to figure out who makes the transport, he never does just speculates a lot. I guess he thought this part was supposed to be funny. He has we was very impressed with both the build quality and the sound quality, He says "The player excels at the resolution of both CDs and SACDs, and has very low noise." He doesn't describe SACD playback but lists some positive attributes to its CD playback. Although he does mention the bombastic Kunzel Telarc recordings and who Kunzel trained under during his half page diatribe against SACD, but he doesn't say he actually played any of his recordings during the review.

Personally if I wanted my new SACD player reviewed I would not be sending it to Sam Tellig.

Happy Listening,
Teresa

 

RE: I have never let a reviewer talk me out of something I really wanted,, posted on May 15, 2009 at 18:32:34
>>Actually the only thing McIntosch wasted with Sam was marketing time and the shipping charges, you know Sam has to return it and pay the return shipping don't you?<<

Nope. He (seemingly gleefully) closed the "review" by mentioning that McIntosh was going to pick the player up.

As I said: McIntosh wasted a lot of time, money, and effort on this. I fault them - they sent him the player. He obviously can't help being a blithering idiot.

 

Doesnt Sam Tellig review a lot of McIntosh equipment?, posted on May 15, 2009 at 19:00:33
navman
Audiophile

Posts: 1264
Location: U.S.A.
Joined: January 26, 2009
If I remember, he has tackled a few tubed pre and power amps over the last decade.

I would imagine that the Company naturally would send him more equipment as a result.

And although one could accuse him of bias, in a funny sort of way, if he is critical of a particular item from a company but not others it could also indicate that he is not influenced by them and is not afraid to "be fair" rather than giving positive reviews to whatever they sent him, so they could send him more.

I haven't read the review (and probably should - it has been a couple of years since I have picked up Stereophile) but if McIntosh picked up the equipment, it might have been on their insistence that he review it. It sounds from what you have described, he explained why he did not like it, and that his major gripe was, as has been from what I remember from the past, the lack of software available for the player. That certainly is a complaint from many who do believe SACD sounds better than RBCD.
navman

 

You are correct although he did tell Jim to take his time., posted on May 15, 2009 at 19:05:33
Maybe he will listen to some of those SACDs he claims to have in the mean time? Also I found they don't have to pay return shipping so I correct my post.

I didn't think of it before but Jim is out all the time he wasted with Sam as well.

Happy Listening,
Teresa

 

Don't waste your money on Stereophile just for that joke of a "review", posted on May 15, 2009 at 20:11:09
>>his major gripe was, as has been from what I remember from the past, the lack of software available for the player.<<

In the "review," Tellig claims to have somehow discovered that he owns 500 SACDs, and that they all suck. John Atkinson should be ashamed of himself for putting such garbage in his magazine.

 

And here's another piece of evidence.., posted on May 15, 2009 at 21:52:35
rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005
I've been a subscriber around 20 years and have bought but one thing as a result of reading about it Stereophile, but he was the writer and I was very pleased with the item. So there you have it: 100% success. Small numbers lead to odd conclusions, no? BTW, he may blather but he's not an idiot and I actually put a lot of stock in what he says about gear, when he finally gets around to it...

When mine arrives I'll be sure to read the article, thanks for mentioning it.

Rick

 

Sam Telling!!, posted on May 15, 2009 at 23:46:17
jazz1
Audiophile

Posts: 2891
Joined: October 30, 2000
I actually bought 2 items in the last 10 years after reading Sam's reviews and I must admit that I was extremely happy with my purchases.
But in general I like to have opinions of a few reviewers before
buying something.
Living in South Africa and not being able to test exotic audio equipment one has to rely on reviews. The only reviewers I would not trust are some people on Six Moons or Positive feedback as I consider some of them
Sangomas practicing black magic or voodoo.

 

RE: McIntosh SACD Player review in Stereophile, posted on May 16, 2009 at 04:40:39
Posts: 10307
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
I used to enjoy and agree with most of Sam Tellig's posts when he frequented the Asylum, yet his bias against SACD as a format shouldn't really be influencing his review of a player in my opinion.

If he says that his SACDs sound 'spectacular' even though he doesn't like the actual music, that should be a positive for the player and reason for a recommendation of the player which can't exactly make poor music sound fantastic.

I'd also question why someone who states that the CD layer of SACDs always sound deliberately crap would buy 500 SACDs to only listen to that crap CD layer.

Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if 500 was a typo and 50 was the correct number.

It also wouldn't surprise me if he's just having a bit of fun - impossible to judge without reading the full review.


Best Regards,
Chris redmond.

 

LOL, posted on May 16, 2009 at 04:50:13
navman
Audiophile

Posts: 1264
Location: U.S.A.
Joined: January 26, 2009
especially at : " as I consider some of them
Sangomas practicing black magic or voodoo. "
navman

 

This is just an example of Stereophile anti-SACD trolling at its finest!, posted on May 16, 2009 at 05:24:27
Hiro
Audiophile

Posts: 401
Joined: November 16, 2008
fortunately more and more people from the hi-rez community is trying to counter that kind of propaganda.

--
pro-CD trolls bark, but the hi-rez SACD caravan goes on...

 

On your blog you take issue with the following statement by Fremer?, posted on May 16, 2009 at 05:40:08
jbcortes
Audiophile

Posts: 1399
Joined: July 6, 2000
"Unless you've already acquired a large collection of SACDs, buying a player in 2009 necessitates an act of faith similar to the one turntable buyers faced back in 1992. As with the LP back then, the major labels today have all but abandoned the SACD to such niche players as Chesky, Proprius, Harmonia Mundi, Pentatone, Channel Classics, 2L, Telarc, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, Groove Note, and Acoustic Sounds.”

What's wrong with what he's saying exactly? Or did I miss something?

JB

 

Ha., posted on May 16, 2009 at 06:44:17
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
To imply, in the first paragraph, that I am not one of the "high resolution music enthusiasts" is silly. Yet another example, typified by many of the responses on sa-cd.net where the enthusiasts react reflexively and choose not to see the bigger picture.

Kal

 

it's not about who is or who is not a hi-rez audio enthusiast.., posted on May 16, 2009 at 07:24:29
Hiro
Audiophile

Posts: 401
Joined: November 16, 2008
it's about Stereophile's shady politics.

--
pro-CD trolls bark, but the hi-rez SACD caravan goes on...

 

Really?, posted on May 16, 2009 at 07:30:23
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 12436
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
I think it's more about hypercritical conspiracy theorists. :-)

Kal

 

Kal, as the saying goes...., posted on May 16, 2009 at 07:33:58
Don't argue with a fool, a passerby may not know who is who. :-)


-Wendell

 

RE: On your blog you take issue with the following statement by Fremer?, posted on May 16, 2009 at 09:20:23
Fitzcaraldo215
Audiophile

Posts: 1120
Location: Philadelphia
Joined: September 7, 2008
Well, Fremer is a very one-dimensional guy who seems, for some reason, to believe SACD is a niche, but somehow vinyl is not. It's been a long time since I actually cared much about vinyl, myself. I personally find it overrated, and my fairly expensive playback gear and 2,500 LP's are pretty much gathering dust. To me, it's not in the same category of truthfulness to the sound of the real thing live as hi rez multichannel.

Incidentally, there were quite a few SACD labels missing from Fremer's list. And based on the Channel Classics guy's statements in the Stereophile blog with Jason Serenius, Fremer seems unaware of SACD's acceptance in many non-US markets.

There is a great new solution to the obsolescence risk issue for SACD, by the way: the brand new Oppo Blu-ray machine with SACD capability. Even if all the SACD's in the world were to suddenly evaporate, it will still play Blu-rays. The company seems to remain committed to SACD no matter what.

 

SACD has always been a nich market., posted on May 16, 2009 at 11:12:51
soulfood
Audiophile

Posts: 3725
Joined: August 9, 2001
From the very beginning, Sony decided that there will be no high rez replacement for CDs. I can't think of an analogy that could best describe vinyl's survival in the marketplace. Of course, if Sony had the capability to stop vinyl production (as they do with CDs) vinyl would have vanished many years ago.

"There is a great new solution to the obsolescence risk issue for SACD, by the way: the brand new Oppo Blu-ray machine with SACD capability. Even if all the SACD's in the world were to suddenly evaporate, it will still play Blu-rays. The company seems to remain committed to SACD no matter what."


The new Oppo Blu-ray machine also plays DVD-A, CD, DVD, and etc. This has nothing to do with commitment. If it were not for multi-format players there would not be enough high-rez supporters to make producing them worthwhile. Oppo is commitment to selling there machine and nothing more nobler than that.

 

RE: This is just an example of Stereophile anti-SACD trolling at its finest!, posted on May 16, 2009 at 11:34:51
Ben Van Dyk
Audiophile

Posts: 955
Location: idaho
Joined: February 9, 2006
does a subject like that help people buy sacd players & music.
dvd audio & multichannel sacds rule

 

Kal dont get baited by, posted on May 16, 2009 at 11:51:27
navman
Audiophile

Posts: 1264
Location: U.S.A.
Joined: January 26, 2009
fools.

It's amazing that after the last clean up, so soon, we have Hiro back in action.




navman

 

Yes - I posted about Tellig a couple of days ago, posted on May 16, 2009 at 12:26:54
Posts: 26483
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 6, 2012
Unfortunately, that post was removed (along with the whole thread). But the guy IS an idiot. Many of us recall his troll rants in this very forum from a couple of years ago.

Between Tellig and Fremer, there's a lot of space wasted in Stereophile every month.

 

Actually Kal you and your "Music In The Round" are the only reasons most SACD lovers read Stereophile as, posted on May 16, 2009 at 15:20:28
Most of the other Stereophile writers have an anti-SACD bias. It is a shame we cannot get your "Music In The Round" as a separate publication, then there would be no need to even read Stereophile.

I am sure when posters speak about Stereophile's anti-SACD bias, you are the exception. For SACD and Multichannel you are oasis in a vast desert.

Happy Listening,
Teresa

 

Hand me another nail, Dr. Van Helsing.(nt), posted on May 17, 2009 at 09:10:05
(nt)

 

LOL! They should've known not to say your name three times.... [nt], posted on May 17, 2009 at 09:30:57
Posts: 10307
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
nt
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.

 

Look! The zombie lurches out of its crypt (nt), posted on May 17, 2009 at 12:17:59
.

 

RE: This is just an example of Stereophile anti-SACD trolling at its finest!, posted on May 17, 2009 at 16:24:27
gkargreen
Audiophile

Posts: 1562
Location: DC
Joined: February 5, 2005
If Sterophile and the like magazines are to stay in business, they must support, via their reviews, the snake-oil salesmen that try to sell the next $5k outboard decoder, $15k turntable, etc. to boost a format (RBCD) that STILL cannot, by the god damn laws of physics, come close the the high-rez formats. And while there may be some arguments vis-a-vis 2-channel, simply put, 2-channel does not equal "stereophonic", much less, multichannel...

 

RE: From how I remember Stereophile, posted on May 17, 2009 at 16:42:27
navman
Audiophile

Posts: 1264
Location: U.S.A.
Joined: January 26, 2009
ranked its digital players in recommended components, SACD and Hi Rez players were given a category of their own, not compared to RBCD precisely because it was considered superior.

I'm not sure why Stereophile are considered to be "Trolling" trolling what exactly?

Just because people don't agree with a particular opinion doesn't automatically make them "baiters" and trolls.

From years ago, all I remember Sam Tellig's main complaint about SACD was that there wasnt enough software to justify the format. It's an opinion.
Is it truth? I'm not sure it has anything to do with truth or falsehood. It didnt necessarily strike me as propaganda, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about.

Many British magazines used to review SACD releases and tested SACD and DVD-A players. There are less of those reviews not because of "hatred" or slimy advertisers, but probably because the formats, the volumes haven't happened the way audiophiles wanted.

Complaining that Sam Tellig shouldn't have been the one to review an SACD player is fine, but to bash the magazine of participating in some evil plan to rid the world of quality Hi-Fidelity reproduction, is just plain silly.
navman

 

That's actually a funny reply, posted on May 17, 2009 at 22:33:29
Posts: 26483
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 6, 2012
I still think your Stereophile column is a waste of space. :-)

 

Actually, that's a funny reply too - I guess I'm easily amused! [nt], posted on May 18, 2009 at 09:51:09
Posts: 26483
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: February 17, 2004
Contributor
  Since:
February 6, 2012


 

RE: Doesnt Sam Tellig review a lot of McIntosh equipment?, posted on May 19, 2009 at 15:05:42
JimIv


 
Actually, my read on the review was that he liked it a lot. He was really positive on the build, sound quality, and the MCD500's possible use as a DAC for other devices (he plugged his MCD205 changer into it). But at $6500, the MCD500 is a little expensive for a DAC. That may be why it is going back - everyone has some kind of budget limits, even reviewers.

JimIv

 

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