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REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player

209.111.93.211
Posted on June 27, 2008 at 08:21:55
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
Model: MPS-5
Category: SACD Player
Suggested Retail Price: $15,000.
Description: One box player, redbook and SACD. will work as DAC or transport, ideal as DAC for music server and said to input any digital without jitter, software upgradable.
Manufacturer URL: Not Available

Review by dcstep@swbell.net on June 27, 2008 at 08:21:55
IP Address: 209.111.93.211		Add Your Review
for the MPS-5

I recently added the Playback Designs MPS-CD/SACD player to my system and now that I've got some hours on it I thought I'd share my impressions.

First, realize that I don't have any references in the same price band as the PD, so the comparison will be to a grossly different universal player (a modded Pioneer Elite DV-58AV with a Superclock 4 and beefed up I/O stages). The Pioneer was actually pretty decent with SACD, but I longed for much more with redbook CD. I found myself listening to lots of vinyl or listening to SACDs and DVD-As.

There are now two or three reviews out about the MPS-5, most notably Mike Lavigne's, supplemented by an excellent addendum by Ted Smith. David Robinson is working on a detailed review, but gave a preliminary thumbs up.

Well, I listened and listened and went back and forth from the Pioneer to the Playback Designs. The PD was clearly superior, but how to describe it was my issue, other than use words like bigger air, richer harmonics and better imaging.

All became crystal clear when I ABd using Enrico Rava (trumpet) and Stefano Bollani's (piano) latest CD "The Third Man". (BTW, this is a fantastic, etherial, jazz CD. Rava is one of the world's great jazz trumpeters IMHO). If the pictures on the CD cover and insert are accurate, this is recorded in a live studio with hardwood floor and just a couple of mics. One mic is stuck right in the piano, with the lid open and the other is stationed in front of Rava, sitting about five-feet beyond the foot of the piano.

The first cut, "Estate", starts with just piano. I think a touch of reverb is added because of the very close proximity of the mic to the strings. With the MPS-5 the image of the piano stretches from about three-feet inside my right speaker to two-feet outside. (That reverb might actually be very light "flange" effect or "chorus", stetching the image so far). That image goes from my floor to a foot or two above the right speaker, but it's focal point is about six-inches inside the speaker about three-feet off the floor.

In contrast, the Pioneer doesn't go outside the speaker at all and stops about a foot from the floor and at the top of the speaker. I'd matched levels, but I tried to expand the Pioneer's image by turning up the volume, but no go, it just got louder, not bigger and "fuller".

Let's talk about Rava's trumpet image. The engineer has placed him to the left of center, but not out at the speaker. His mic is about four feet from the floor in the picture and he's sitting casually and playing. His mic is where you hear the atmosphere of the room, with both direct and reflected trumpet sound coming through, stretching from the piano edge to the left speaker, with a real strong focal point about four feet high and 30-degrees to the left of center. Once again, the Pioneer nails the focal point of the trumpet. You can hear the room, but it's much less obvious.

Didn't I say "fuller" earlier? Let me talk about it more. With that piano intro that I mentioned earlier, there's an incredibly rich and complex set of overtones, strongest at the piano's focal point, but showering the surrounding area with a overtones that decrease in richness as you move away from the focal point. Unfortunately the Pioneer is lacking the best overtones. The piano sounds "clangy" and thin in comparison. With the MPS-5 it sounds like there's more bass, but there's also way more high overtones. It's not all steel sound, but you hear the wood sound clearly.

The trumpet gains the same luxurious coating of overtones, high an low, making it sound fuller and richer and less edgy.

I don't have Rava's album on LP, but I do have a couple of Nora Jones albums on CD and LP. I'd stopped playing the CDs after I got my Pro-ject TT. Now the CDs are back out. In direct comparison, the glare and edge I was hearing in Nora's voice on CD is now gone. The images are now as big as the LP. The improvement is VAST.

Still, I think it took a sparely recorded album like Rava's to clearly demonstrate to me what I was hearing. Everything sounded fuller, more dynamic and just plain better, but now I can explain better why.

The excellent Reference Recordings CD "Crown Imperial" shows a couple of other advantages of the MPS-5. When things get really complex, with everybody playing loud but different lines at the same time it's much easier to pick out each line. I've played this before as a trumpeter, so I have a very good idea what's going on. Even knowing that I'd lose lines with the Pioneer, where the PD kept each line separate and easy to follow.

The controls are simple and intuitive, with a nicely backlit remote. The drawer is solid and fast. Like most drawers, if you push on it when it's open, it'll close. The chassis is heavy aluminum plate. At this price you might hope for a chassis machined from aircraft billet, but instead you get a solidly made chassis that's attractive, stiff and heavy.

There are balanced and unbalanced analog outputs (I used balanced into my Rowland Continuum 500 integrated amp). There is a wide selection digital inputs and outputs, but no HDMI either in or out. (My Pioneer has DSD-out via HDMI, so I miss the potential to use that with the Playback Designs).

Playback Designs' web site is not up yet, but it will be reasonably soon, I hope. I leave that to give you more technical details. I'm only here to talk about sonics.

Sorry that I didn't have any 10 and 20-thousand dollar players to compare the MPS-5. Mike, Ted and Dave have started that and there'll be more to come.

BTW, the retail price is $15,000 and there's an introductory price of $10,000. I have no idea how long that'll last, but I suspect it'll end soon, when the web site is up and marketing swings into full force.
Dave

Product Weakness: No HDMI I/O
Product Strengths: NO %22digital%22 sound, rich harmonics, big stable images and stress free.

Associated Equipment for this Review:

Amplifier: Rowland Continuum 500 Integrated
Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): NA
Sources (CDP/Turntable): Pro-ject RM10
Speakers: Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grands
Cables/Interconnects: Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval
Music Used (Genre/Selections): Jazz, Rock, Soul, Classical
Room Size (LxWxH): 18' x 36' x 9
Room Comments/Treatments: Sumiko Speaker
Time Period/Length of Audition: 8-hours
Other (Power Conditioner etc.): Power Factor Correction included in the amp
Type of Audition/Review: Product Owner
Your System (if other than home audition): NA
RE: REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on June 27, 2008 at 11:36:59
kana813
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Maui
Joined: March 31, 2004
 Dave-

I agree, "The Third Man" is a great sounding recording, but you don't need to spend $10-15K on a SACDP to get great imaging.

My Theta Jade/TacT combo produces imaging like you describe on the "Estate" cut.

Dan
RE: REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on June 27, 2008 at 11:42:07
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Yes, here's where we need A/B comparisons to a wider range of players, since we'll be talking about matters of degree. Still, I'm glad that my description of the image struck home.

Not wanting to derail my own thred, but what's your favorite Rava album? I've only got a couple and planning to buy several more.
Dave

RE: REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on June 27, 2008 at 13:16:54
kana813
Audiophile

Posts: 122
Location: Maui
Joined: March 31, 2004
 I only have Rava's ECM recordings. Of those "Easy Living" is my favorite.

Another ECM recording you should check out is Norma Winstone's "Distances."

Surprising low end power on the bass clarinet.
Personally, I don't care..., posted on June 27, 2008 at 14:36:17
krisjan
Audiophile

Posts: 391
Joined: May 6, 2001
 ...how this player compares to other players. What I care about is how it renders acoustic instruments. Does it get the violin right with the correct balance of fundamental and overtone and without fatigue? Does it capture the full dynamics of a piano? Does it get the cello bloom right? Does a full orchestra sound coherent and dynamic? You really need to be familiar with acoustic instruments to make this kind of judgement. Thanks anyway.

For that amount of money.........it had better walk my dog, posted on June 27, 2008 at 16:53:30
Joe M
Audiophile

Posts: 11926
Joined: September 27, 2001
 .

Agreed! I find that most "gear-to-gear" comparisons, while potentially entertaining, are counter intuitive...., posted on June 27, 2008 at 19:08:24
Robert C. Lang
Audiophile

Posts: 2944
Joined: March 1, 2001
and not worth much. I rarely (if ever) get involved in gear-to-gear comparisons. To me it is *soooooo* irrelevant and flat out counter intuitive.

I acknowledge fully that that my method of assessing how well gear/source music performs is not without fault. But as is reflected in many of my posts my comparisons are always against live acoustic sources very often made immediately after coming home from a live concert that I attend *regularly*. I have probably done a half a dozen of these type posts this year.

Using "live" as my reference is far more accessible and far more meaningful to me than comparing gear. I would wager that I have the opportunity to attend more live concerts than most audiophiles have the opportunity to compare gear. Heck, I attended a funeral this past week that had great live acoustic music! I have attended at least a dozen paid music events this year and at least that many informal non paid events. Much (most) of the time I comparing/observing how the music "compares" with my system and the source music I purchase as well as other systems that I listen to. Outside of an audio dealer, I think that most audiophiles would find it impossible to compare gear that often. And frankly, this (using a live reference) has fueled my strong affinity and appreciation for multi-channel sources.

The key to avoid (as much as possible) the real pitfalls to making "live" your reference is to do it "actively", "purposefully", "regularly" and to recognize going in that it is not an "apples to apples" comparison. You can't do it casually or seldom do it. I make such comparisons 5 or 6 times a month, far more often than I can possibly compare "gear".

Most designers of quality speakers that have been interviewed, have written about their approach to design, the dozens I have followed over the years have invariably stated with emphasis that with all due respect to all the theories and math, live is their reference.

And for better or for worse I have been using "live" as my standard of comparison for so long that it is now innate. I would not know how *not* to make audio comparisons that way. Besides, as I have said many times here I never learned how to parse the differences of otherwise excellent gear. Now *that* is difficult to do (for me).


Robert C. Lang

You'll love this string sound..., posted on June 27, 2008 at 19:40:16
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 krisjan asked:

"how this player compares to other players. What I care about is how it renders acoustic instruments. Does it get the violin right with the correct balance of fundamental and overtone and without fatigue? Does it capture the full dynamics of a piano? Does it get the cello bloom right? Does a full orchestra sound coherent and dynamic? You really need to be familiar with acoustic instruments to make this kind of judgement."

Great question. BTW, I play trumpet in several regional orchestras. Yes, I know string sounds. One of my very favorite recordings is Starker's Bach Cello Suites and his Kodaly. Right now I'm listening to the excellent SACD "Boston Symphony Chamber Players -- Mozart -- Chamber Music for Winds and Strings" (a "must have" IMO). I play guitar and have an excellent Ramirez classical as well as several exceptional archtops. My favorite big orchestral piece is MTT and San Francisco doing Mahler's 6th. It's an incredible recording with wonderful massed strings, with lots of work for the cellos and basses The sound of a symphony orchestra in a hall, playing a big piece, is as accurate as I've heard.

I've had, since the early 1990s, a great recording of the "Haydn 'London' Trios" with Rampal, Stern and Rostropovich. It's simply miked, with no spotlight mics close up to the strings, so you get a full bodied presentation. Still, when Rostropovich digs in then lets the body ring you hear the full, deep resonance, ringing for a count or two, as it should. You never hear just strings or just wood, you hear them together and separately at the same time. Stern sometimes really digs in and you get some of that raw-edged string sound, but it's realistic with no electronic edge added.

Frankly I'd retired my Starker Bach Suite CD and gone to vinyl prior to the arrival of the MPS-5. I brought it back out and it's now wonderful. You hear fingers on strings, cello body, bow on strings. I'm sure that a player could tell me how much rosen is on the bow. The fatigue is gone and the glare that drove me away from the CD is gone.

I listened for six hours straight this afternoon, mostly to CDs and about 1/3d strings or orchestra, the rest was female vocals, trumpet and a little pop. I'm amazed how the CDs have closed the gap with LPs and SACDs. You really don't miss the other formats. I don't have any CD-SACD duplicates, so I can't say anything in comparison until I go buy a CD that I already have on SACD. The CD vs. vinyl shortfall has TOTALLY disappeared. (Vinyl huggers please don't batch, I'm keeping my vinyl, just not adding to it quite as fast now that CDs are a full option, with no penalty).

More about string sounds. I've got several of the SACD reissues of Heifetz with Boston and Chicago. Although simply miked, his violin really commands the stage. On the melodic passages his tone is big, woody, singing and rich. When he digs in you can imagine the rosen flying. BTW, the orchestral strings are wonderful, not steely and reedy as mics of the day tended to present (these reissues are wonderful). Back to Heifetz, his highs are crystalline, not tiring. The harmonics POP off the strings. When he digs in you get that raw sound of the string really being ripped into with gusto. On the double-stops and triple-stops you hear each note clearly.

I played trumpet on "Carmen Fantasy" for violin and orchestra a few weeks back. There are lots of soaring highs for the soloist in that piece. On CDs, in the past, those sounded steely, now they sound sweet and glorious, like the real thing.

I should have mentioned this in my main review, silences are totally dark and I hear dimuendos down to the last bit of breath or the very ends of the bows, thanks to the lack of background. Dynamics are huge. Massed bass sections are full and rich, cellos (my favorite string) are simply glorious.

I don't know what else to say. I think this player is any music lover's dream. For a string lover, that tiring extra glare added to already high pitched strings is gone.

Hope that helps. I'll try to answer anything more specific. (My classical collection isn't near as deep as my jazz collection. OMG, Stephane Grampelli is incredible. His violin has so much more body than I recall ever hearing.
Dave

RE: Agreed! I find that most "gear-to-gear" comparisons, while potentially entertaining, are counter intuitive...., posted on June 27, 2008 at 20:05:04
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Well Robert, my reference really is also live music. I rehearse and/or perform on trumpet or guitar about 8 to 15 times per month. This includes symphonic orchestra, trumpet and organ, big band, wind ensemble, brass band, church orchestra and, occasionally, a funk/rock/soul band. I organized the Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest and hear some of the best trumpeters in the world. On guitar, I hear acoustic and electric jazz guitar by world class players several times per year. You mentioned a funeral performance, I had the privalege of honor my dear mother's passing by playing several of her favorite hymns a capella at her funeral. My high school friends and my cousins that hadn't heard me since I moved away 45 years ago were pleasantly surprised, they say.

Still, I think that some degree of equipment-to-equipment comparison is appropriate. We've come to accept some compromise in music systems, so a question is how much compromise is left. Considering how colored most mics are and all the wire and circuits that go into the recording process, it's amazing that we get as close as we do.

I knew there was glare in my CD playback. It was real obvious as compared to my TT, but putting the MPS-5 in the system made the weakness of my prior CD player absolutely clear.

Also, when we get into these high reaches of price, people will wonder "is it worth the added cost". Between my $1500 Pioneer and the $15000 Playback Designs there's a lot of territory and options. People that have listened to Esoteric, DCS, Emm, etc. and compared to PD are better positioned than me to evaluate whether the PD is a "bargain."

Here's where I fall back in line with you. I might try to go out and hear those alternative players over 5-grand, but the words of Lavigne, Smith and Robinson gave me the confidence to go ahead and order. When the MPS-5 arrived and I heard how much it sounded like real music, I didn't care if there might be a better "bargain" because it's giving me what I want the most.



Dave

Thanks for the comprehensive response..., posted on June 28, 2008 at 04:36:42
krisjan
Audiophile

Posts: 391
Joined: May 6, 2001
 I now have a better feel for how this new player makes music. Congratulations on your new player.

& dispense BEER!, posted on June 28, 2008 at 08:39:57
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 10080
Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 ;^)

...regards...tr

If there is some way it can be used as, posted on June 28, 2008 at 09:29:14
Duilawyer
Audiophile

Posts: 29475
Joined: November 5, 2001
 a dorm room for my daughter I can just barely swing it.

Rampal, and "She who must be obeyed" ? nt, posted on June 28, 2008 at 09:39:36
Duilawyer
Audiophile

Posts: 29475
Joined: November 5, 2001
 .

RE: Rampal, and "She who must be obeyed" ? nt, posted on June 28, 2008 at 13:22:17
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Sorry, I don't have that one.

Dave

RE: Rampal, and "She who must be obeyed" ? nt, posted on June 28, 2008 at 17:14:58
Bayside Bomber
Audiophile

Posts: 239
Joined: July 25, 2001
 That's a good one!

Have a Chateau de Fleet Street on me,

David D.

Is it a reliable player ?, posted on June 28, 2008 at 17:54:55
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 Can you describe :

* Is it a reliable player ? Firmware stablized ? remote working OK ? transport working without issues ?
* How does the digital input work ? OK to connect to a PC using a USB port ? working with external 24/96 sources perfectly ?
* Is the manufacturer able to provide a warranty service / firemware support ? Who are they ?

I found it amazing that everyone describes this player as almost perfect, and everyone knows a bit about manufacturer or some insider information, yet, no one mentions that this is still a player that may require some firmwares update in future. Very nervous to purchase a new brand new player without any assurance of reliability & readiness of all published functions.
Hmm, who are you?, posted on June 28, 2008 at 19:00:04
Ted Smith
Bored Member

Posts: 9959
Location: Seattle
Joined: December 29, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 5, 2001
 Howdy

Many of us here know the service we can expect from the parties involved. They have a history.

You on the other hand seem to be here just to stir up trouble.

-Ted

RE: Not sure if that's fair, Ted, posted on June 28, 2008 at 20:46:32
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 The poster has 114 posts to date, so he's not new. I haven't read any of his other ones, so maybe he is just a trouble maker but how 'bout giving some evidence?

On the other hand, based on the problems people have had with Philips-sourced SACD transports, I think Kenny has asked some fair questions. Just recently there was a thread on the problems with the Krell SACD Standard due to the Philips transport. When the Philips SACD-1000 was in production it caused a lot of heartache for a lot of customers. And most recently was the dCS P-8i. It was only in production for about 12 months. I never heard of any complaints from customers, but there must have been some reason that dCS discontinued it so quickly -- presumably related to the Philips transport.

Hopefully PB has either found another source for transports, or if they are using the Philips transport that they have been able to de-bug it or are using a new version that is more reliable.

And I believe that one of the questions Kenny asked already has a negative answer. He wanted to know if the USB had 96/24 working, and I recall someone posting that it currently only accepted 44.1 (please correct me if I'm mistaken). So his question about a firmware update is probably valid as well.

For those who don't know, Playback Designs is a new company run by Andreas Koch. He worked for many years at EMM Labs and (I believe) has consulted for Sony also. Clearly he is an extremely talented designer -- you can't get that kind of praise his design has garnered without having done just about everything right -- digital design, analog design, PCB layout, power supply design, parts quality, et cetera, et cetera. There is no question in my mind that this is the real deal -- not just a bunch of hype and/or mumbo-jumbo tech-talk.

Since PB doesn't yet have a website, I'm sure that many people would like some more information before plunking down their cash. There is no question that they have a great new product and are worth keeping an eye on. And I think that Kenny had some fair questions, and that they will be answered in the course of time.

Good questions... here's a few answers..., posted on June 28, 2008 at 20:54:11
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Kenny, my digital IC came apart and I had to order a new one. As soon as it comes in I'll test connectivity with my other devices.

The Esoteric transport is flawless so far. It hasn't gotten confused yet. When not listening, it's been running continuously on Repeat. The transport/firmware seeks the 2-channel layer by default, so I've not had to toggle between layers. I don't see the point of playing the CD layer of an SACD, but I might try it once just to report that it can be done, or not.

The remote is substantial machined aluminum with attractive blue backlite. It's very intuitive. although I've only been using the internal transport until I get that new digital IC. (A quick look at the manual tells me how to select various sources).

There's no required firmware update. It's ready to go right out of the box. I think that the point about USB updateable firmware is to allow for updates as different digital standards might come available. It's clearly an advantage, but it's all installed by the manufacturer intially.

As for reliability, we can only go by the quality of the parts used, such as the excellent Esoteric transport, which is felt by many to be superior to the tranport used in some competing, high end, CDPs, costing as much or more than the MPS-5. The chassis is clearly top drawer, though not out of billet, a nice but not essential step for a CDP. Also, we know something of the experience of the designer/builder.

One can always wait until there a few hundred more units out there and we'll hear more specifics about reliability, but then you'll pay $5000 more than I did. After my interagation of the owners and asking around of others with longer experience than me with them, I decided that the risk was worth it for me. Obviously that's a personal decision that needs be made in consideration of your own risk tolerance.
Dave

Yep, I was just going to delete my post, posted on June 28, 2008 at 21:10:08
Ted Smith
Bored Member

Posts: 9959
Location: Seattle
Joined: December 29, 2000
Contributor
  Since: May 5, 2001
 Howdy

I was just reading his old posts myself and found I couldn't delete my post :)

Thanks for keeping me honest.

I certainly agree that his questions are completely legitimate, I was just responding to the tone of his recent posts here and that he hadn't responded to the responses to them. It seemed like he had an axe to grind (especially given the phrasing of some specific points in his posts, but perhaps it's a language barrier.) But then I thought to check his older posts...

On the other hand I don't want to be seen as a Playback Designs cheerleader: I know that no company or product is perfect (e.g. I know that Jonathan doesn't always return calls quickly, so I just call him again :)

I know that Andreas was one of the ones burned by Philips SACD transports, but I don't know which transport in the Playback Designs player. I know that it's not the same transport as the EMM Labs players. On the other hand it's way too soon to tell if the transport is all we'd hoped it could be so something seemed odd to me about the way the question was asked, perhaps once again it's a language barrier.

Since I've upgraded the firmware in my EMM CDSD with instructions from the EMM Labs web site, knowing Andrew I have no doubt that it's possible in the Playback Designs player.

-Ted

RE: Personally, I don't care..., posted on June 28, 2008 at 21:20:58
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Reviewing the thread I noticed that I really didn't answer your question as it relates to piano.

I've heard great piano up close an personal. One of my friends is a world-class concert pianist who's performed in Russia, Europe and a number of second and third-tier US symphonies. When she was still working on her Master at North Texas I heard her play beautiful 9-foot Steinway in a "piano parlor" that opened on two sides to two large rooms, in a home. I sat about ten-feet from the foot-end of the piano with the lid open. Wow!!

Anyway, today I got out my SACD reissue of Rubinstein playing Beethoven's "big four" Sonotas, "Moonlight", "Les Adieux", "Pathetique" and "Appassionata". The lyrical parts of "Moonlight", for instance, are just scrumptuous with every subtle various in this amazing player's touch being apparent. I can see him in my mind's eye, leaning over the keys very precisely caressing the notes out of the keyboard. He holds a chord and then starts a bass note to complete the chord at exactly the right moment. The resonance of that bass note is so satifying and perfectly played in relation to the rest of the chord, it's a marvel. The body and resonance of the piano are glorious. Forget about the tape hiss, this is an incredible performance. At the end he lets the chord ring for several seconds before damping it, it almost fades to nothingness, yet you hear the damper move as if you were sitting ten-feet from the piano.

The third movement of the "Moonlight" the piano is in for a beating. Good Lord, the man doesn't look that big in the pictures, but he possitively pounds the piano. It's a beautiful pounding, of course. The dynamics are huge and the overtones come spraying out of that lucky piano. Wow, again!! My friend I mentioned earlier was doing a Chopin recital, but I was hearing the same kind of sounds that I heard at that pre-recital.

I'm really proud of my speakers and amp. I didn't have my SPL meter with me, but the peaks were surely beating 100dB with some regularity. I set the level at the opening of "Moonlight" based on what I remembered the piano sounding like in that music parlor and then I let it ride. The sound got huge, but not clangy or distorted on the top. I got chills several times.
Dave

RE: Thanks for the info, posted on June 28, 2008 at 21:25:43
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << the excellent Esoteric transport, which is felt by many to be superior to the tranport used in some competing, high end, CDPs, costing as much or more than the MPS-5. The chassis is clearly top drawer, though not out of billet >>

Thanks for the information. It sounds like it is the VRDS-NEO Mk.5. This is the same transport used in the Esoteric X-05. While it is nowhere near the "overkill" design of some of the other Esoteric transports, it is still a nice transport and should be very reliable. We have looked at using this and have hesitated largely due to the lack of the metal tray.

This transport is used in the dCS Puccini (circa $20,000 in the US) and now the Playback Designs at $15,000. Based on the OEM cost of the mechanism, it seems like this is the price range that a player using this transport would have to cost. We received many complaints about the plastic tray in our $6,000 SACD player so we are hesitant to use a plastic tray in a unit that would have to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $15,000.

More photos of the various Esoteric drives in the link below. They are all excellent designs, it's just that they are quite expensive. I wish they were available for half the cost that TEAC charges -- if so we would probably offer a complete line of transports based on the Esoteric mechanisms.

By the way, please note that there are significant differences in construction between the first two Esoteric mechanisms in the linked post and the last two Esoteric mechanisms. More info on the design features of the Esoteric mechanisms are available at:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hirez&n=242449

RE: Thanks for the info, posted on June 28, 2008 at 21:43:58
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Thanks Charles. I was told that it is one of the VOSP transports.
Dave

RE: Thanks for the info, posted on June 28, 2008 at 22:36:09
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << I was told that it is one of the VOSP transports. >>

VOSP stands for "Vertically Aligned Optical Stability Platform". With an optical disc mechanism, there are two means of moving the laser. There is a coarse mechanism that moves the sled in and out (radially) so as to slowly track the spiral pits. Then there is a fine mechanism whereby the laser itself can make very small and rapid motions to follow any wobble and/or eccentricity of the disc.

Normally the fine mechanism uses what is called a "voice coil actuator", which basically means that it works much like a loudspeaker. There is a coil-shaped electromagnet that receives a control signal and a fixed permanent magnet that the voice coil reacts against.

The VOSP is supposed to be an improvement to the normal fine mechanism and somehow keeps the laser more perpendicular to the plane of the disc as the laser is rapidly moved. However, I have never seen any detailed explanation of what it is exactly or how it is different from a normal voice-coil actuated laser. It may make a huge improvement or it may make no improvement -- I simply have no idea.

I found a PDF on the TEAC website that details the differences between the transports (linked below). The VMK-5 transport (also called VRDS-Neo Mk.5) used in the Playback Designs player claims to use the VOSP technology. But they also claim to use "differential gear loading" and "self detection of rotation speed".

As far as I know, "differential gear loading" is fairly standard in many transports. This is what is also called an "anti-backlash gear" and comprises two thin gears with a spring that holds them with a relative rotary force. This eliminates any "slop" when the tray and/or sled direction reverses. And similarly for "self detection of rotation speed". Many transports have optical stripes printed on the bottom of the turntable disc, and the rotational speed of the spindle motor is monitored with an opto-sensor that looks at these stripes.

So some of these features are not really very exclusive. I can't tell if "VOSP" is really a significant improvement or simply a new name for a relatively standard technique.

But in many ways it doesn't really matter. What really matters is how does it sound, how reliable is it, and how are the ergonomic factors. And as far as I know, even the least expensive Esoteric is extremely reliable. Clearly Andreas Koch has gotten great sound out of it. You have indicated that the tray is smooth and quiet, so the only potential strike against it is the possible expectation of a metal tray given the price point.

RE: Thanks for the info, posted on June 29, 2008 at 00:00:41
Mark Hoepfl
Audiophile

Posts: 43
Joined: July 11, 2007
 Charles,

If you had the same circuitry as your current CD player but used a TEAC metal tray based transport I wonder how much better it would sound????

It would double the cost of your player but I am sure it would not sound 2X as good!
RE: Thanks for the info, posted on June 29, 2008 at 06:51:42
dcstep@swbell.net
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Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Thanks for the link and educational comments my friend.

Plinking with my finger and examining with a strong light, I'm almost certain that the tray cap is aluminum. The whole thing has flat black anodized look, with the tray cap matching the grooved finish of the MPS-5, BUT I'm thinking that the tray itself is resin. The tray doesn't ring like the tray cap when rapped, but it doesn't seem "plastic-like" either. It's a nice piece either way, but I'm a little uncertain as to whether it's resin or aluminum, but if you made be bet, I'd say resin.
Dave

Piano sound discussed in my prior post NT, posted on June 29, 2008 at 07:07:26
dcstep@swbell.net
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Posts: 347
Location: Denver
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 nt
Dave

Wow !!! Should a bored member be neutral ?, posted on June 29, 2008 at 07:50:46
Kenny
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Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 I am just an individual that is very interested in this player. I sent to Blu-light Audio the similar questions but I don't have a reply. I guess they are as skeptical as you do.

Should an asylum broad member be in a more neutral stand protecting the interests of general public before being negative to questions that may ask too much ?

I live in Hong Kong, so obviously warranty support service & reliability are extremely important to me being far away.

I currently own a dCS P8i (which has digital inputs). If Charles' player has digital inputs, I would have probably bought his. This MPS-5 has such an interesting array of inputs so I am asking a lot of questions because it is to me the buying point.

If you happen to know the insiders of this player, then you should explain but not trying to shut down the questions.

Too bad Charles does not come up with a SACD player that has similar digital input capabilities or otherwise Ayre can count me in as a customer for sure ^_^. Charles answers every single question patiently and politely !

Digital inputs, posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:02:52
Kenny
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Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 Thanks for the explanations. I understand it has 3 kinds of inputs : SPDIF, AT&T, and USB.

If you have a chance to try all 3 kinds and provide a feedback, that would be great. Especially USB --- I would like to know how does it work like if it requires a Window Vista PC or iPod.

Hmm... if it interacts with a PC and does not have a firmware update capability it may not be compatible to new system/software in future.
It DOES have firmware update capability, posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:12:04
dcstep@swbell.net
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Posts: 347
Location: Denver
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 I don't really have a great computer source, but I'll try to plug in the laptop and play a lossless file via USB. The best computer interface will be AES/EBU which I'm not set up for yet.

I'll try a few of these things when I recieve my replacement digital cable. (It's mounted in an armoire making it a pain for me to get to the back side in my system).

I'm not planning to buy a Toslink cable. Maybe one of the other owners will tell us about that interface.
Dave

P8i is OK...., posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:27:20
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 Thanks Charles...

My P8i transport is OK. It cannot read dirty disc's but otherwise it works flawlessly. Most disappointing is its firmware development stopped at version 1.1x @ Jul-06 that its digital inputs can only handle 24/48 but not 24/96. Anyhow I was told by the dCS people that they had met the production projection for P8i so it was done so they moved to the new player which costs even more. Anyway, I am a fan of high-definition format so if the SACD player can decode a digital signal from my Blu-ray player that has PCM 24/96 tracks (the coming Blue Man Group's Blu-ray should be fun) or from a PC that has 24/96 files would be fantastic.

PS: I asked you a while back if you planned for digital inputs for your next SACD player but you said no. I hope you can reconsider. One box SACD player that has an array of high-definition digital inputs should be attractive. People nowadays spend mega bucks for a Wadia or a Krell for their iPod and PC music server. Hopefully you can make a killing too..

RE: Thanks for the info, posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:31:33
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << If you had the same circuitry as your current CD player but used a TEAC metal tray based transport I wonder how much better it would sound???? >>

That's a good question, but I don't know the answer. On the one hand, our master clock is less than 1" from the DAC chip and feeds it directly. The transport is slaved to that master clock and there is a FIFO buffer for the data that absorbs any jitter. The data is clocked out of the FIFO by the master clock. And every single logic gate in the clock's signal path has is own discrete, zero-feedback power supply regulator, so this should isolate the clock signal from any indirect interactions from other circuits (such as the transport).

So from a theoretical point of view, it shouldn't make any difference whatsoever to change the transport. But in reality, I'm sure that it would. For example, just adding a Marigo CD mat makes a slight, but noticeable improvement in the sound. Just as usual, *everything* makes a difference. The only question is how much difference it would make. And I really don't know the answer to that.

<< It would double the cost of your player but I am sure it would not sound 2X as good! >>

Actually, it would probably increase the price by a factor of *at least* 3x to use the "real" VRDS-Neo with the big metal chassis and the motor above the disc.

And I agree that it would be very unlikely to improve the sound anywhere near to the same degree that the price would increase. Also if we were to build a player at such a high price point, we would improve many other components besides just the transport. Designing a $20,000 player is a completely different game than designing a $6,000 player.

It's called the law of diminishing returns..., posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:35:58
Bar81
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Posts: 158
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 Once you hit a certain level, it takes a lot more to bring out about even small improvements.

In any case, the improvements from a superior transport are not just in terms of the sound but also in terms of reliability; how one can spend thousands on a product without taking into account reliability is beyond me. When we're talking $10K+ for a CDP, it *needs* to be over-engineered. On that note, I can't wait to try the Spectral SDR 4000.

Nope, I'm speaking for myself, posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:37:21
Ted Smith
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Contributor
  Since: May 5, 2001
 Howdy

If you read the whole thread you'd see that I regretted my post and said so.

-Ted

So a CX-R with VRDS NEO..., posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:41:18
Bar81
Audiophile

Posts: 158
Joined: May 4, 2008
 would cost in the range of $25K? I'm in as long as you can up your game for this as much as you upped your game between the MX-R and the KX-R.

Also AES/EBU nt, posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:42:59
Bar81
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Posts: 158
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 nt

RE: Wow !!! Should a bored member be neutral ?, posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:46:43
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << Too bad Charles does not come up with a SACD player that has similar digital input capabilities >>

There are two reasons that we have not included a digital input on any of our disc players so far:

a) The de facto standard interface is S/PDIF. This is an inherently flawed interface. You can make it perform at a higher level by throwing money at it, but there is no clever way to make it work well at a reasonable cost.

That means we would have to choose to either include a relatively low performance digital input just for convenience's sake or include a high performance digital input and increase the cost of the player significantly.

The first solution would disappoint many users that have come to expect good things from Ayre. The second solution would require all purchasers to pay for something that only a small fraction of the owners would actually use.

b) One reason that people want an external digital input is to connect a DVD player. This is a recipe for sonic disaster. 99% of all DVD players have noisy switching power supplies that never turn off and 100% of all modern video displays have noisy switching power supplies that never turn off. Simply connecting a DVD player to your audio system in this way will noticeably degrade the sound quality of your other sources.

Isolating these noise sources from the rest of the audio system is possible, but further increases the costs. The bottom line is that to add a high performance digital input that also provides a high degree of isolation from external noise sources would bump the price up to a new price category.

For example in the US (while it was still in production) the dCS P-8i was double the cost of the Ayre C-5xe. At some point it might make more sense to just buy two separate components instead of trying to put everything into one box.

<< Charles answers every single question patiently and politely >>

Well, not *all* of them. But most of them...

Wait, are you saying that simply connecting an SPDIF cable..., posted on June 29, 2008 at 08:50:31
Bar81
Audiophile

Posts: 158
Joined: May 4, 2008
 from a DVD player to a digital input on a CDP will ruin the sound of the CDP playing CDs irrespective of whether you've isolated the power supply of the DVD player and video equipment from that of your audio gear?

Hmm... How about a D/A for PS3 ?, posted on June 29, 2008 at 09:14:50
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 Good morning Charles; do you think you can have a 2-channel D/A for Sony PS3 that can accept SACD, Blu-ray's PCM 2.0 24/96 signal thru HDMI ?

Then you can add in ports for iPod, PC music server ?

Noises & jitters, as you say, can be isolated.

Like many, I am the type that would never buy an AV receiver and am very happy with 2-channel output. So if there is a device that has a quiet and powerful and fully balanced circuit with a nice solid built chassis from a reputable high-end brandname to decode every high-definition digital signal from a PS3, it should sell a bundle.

It is a dream...
RE: So a CX-R with VRDS NEO..., posted on June 29, 2008 at 09:17:59
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << So a CX-R with VRDS NEO would cost in the range of $25K? >>

Probably significantly more than that if we were to use the "real" VRDS Neo with the machined metal chassis and the motor in the bridge.

Just to put things in perspective, the dCS Scarlatti stack (three separate pieces) using that mechanism sells for about $60,000 in the US. The dCS Puccini one-box machine that sells for around $20,000 in the US uses the *much* less expensive VMK-5 Esoteric transport (also known as VRDS-Neo Mk.5).

Too bad :( nt, posted on June 29, 2008 at 09:19:50
Bar81
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Posts: 158
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 nt

RE: Hmm... How about a D/A for PS3 ?, posted on June 29, 2008 at 09:30:28
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << do you think you can have a 2-channel D/A for Sony PS3 that can accept SACD, Blu-ray's PCM 2.0 24/96 signal thru HDMI ? >>

Anything is possible. But I doubt we would ever make such a product. For one thing, my understanding is that the PlayStation 3 converts SACD's to PCM. For another thing, an Ayre stand-alone DAC with multiple inputs would probably cost somewhere between $5,000 and $25,000, depending on the number of features and level of performance. But I don't think there are many people who would buy a multi-thousand dollar piece of high-end equipment and want to connect it to a $300 game console. It would be like buying a Ferrari and then buying cheap tires at the discount store for $39 each.

RE: Wait, are you saying that simply connecting an SPDIF cable..., posted on June 29, 2008 at 16:53:04
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << Wait, are you saying that simply connecting an SPDIF cable from a DVD player to a digital input on a CDP will ruin the sound of the CDP playing CDs irrespective of whether you've isolated the power supply of the DVD player and video equipment from that of your audio gear? >>

I don't know that "ruin" is the word I would choose. But with nearly all DVD players there will be a switching power supply that runs all the time. And it will be connected to a video display that is guaranteed to have a switching power supply running all the time. And the TV is probably connected to a cable box and/or a VCR that also have switching power supplies.

All of these devices create quite a lot of RF noise that couples to the chassis of each component. Connecting this to your CD player will definitely degrade the sound of the CD player. How much it degrades the sound will depend on a a lot of things, mostly having to do with the digital input on the CD player.

Try it and see for yourself.

First disconnect the S/PDIF input. That will make a noticeable difference. Then try unplugging all those other video devices with switching power supplies. That will turn off those noise generators that are sending interference throughout your house. (Power line filters can help, but none of them are 100% effective.)

The best thing is to keep your audio system and your video system separate. If you can't do that, then it's often a good idea to plug all of the video equipment into a switched power strip. Then when you are doing some critical listening, it's relatively easy to turn all of that junk completely off.

2 ways to hand this.., posted on June 29, 2008 at 17:29:20
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 1st, use a toslink plastic cable which isolates video noises away, and 2nd, use the so called "jitter elimination" box in the middle. I have a GW Labs DSP between my Blu-way & the CD/DAC. It seems OK to the sound.

Personally, I feel the most noisy one is not from DVD player but from the TV which is hooked to the DVD player which is hooked to the rest of the system.

Crap, you're right., posted on June 29, 2008 at 19:10:57
Bar81
Audiophile

Posts: 158
Joined: May 4, 2008
 Where I'm living now they have switches on all the outlets and I've already isolated audio vs. everything else. Switching off the all else yielded an improvement and then I switched off the fridge, even more improvement.

You learn something new everyday, thanks Charles.

RE: 2 ways to hand this.., posted on June 29, 2008 at 21:39:36
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << 1st, use a toslink plastic cable which isolates video noises away, and 2nd, use the so called "jitter elimination" box in the middle. >>

This is a pretty good idea if done properly. TosLink isolates the noise but introduces large amounts of data-related jitter. Some DAC's are more immune to the effects of jitter than others. Some reclockers could also reduce the level of jitter, although the fact that they then put it back into S/PDIF format inherently adds some jitter back in. However if done properly with the TosLink upstream and the jitter-box downstream, there are potentially some gains to be made.

<< Personally, I feel the most noisy one is not from DVD player but from the TV which is hooked to the DVD player which is hooked to the rest of the system. >>

Generally speaking, this is true. One way around this was to use an Ayre DVD player -- the video and audio sections are completely galvanically isolated and no interference is possible. There are two problems to this approach:

a) If you had any other video source (eg, VCR, cable box, et cetera), that component would short the ground of the video display back to your audio system and you are back to square one. (Unless you have one of a handful of preamps that also switches the grounds when switching inputs.

b) We discontinued both of our DVD players early this year.

RE: Crap, you're right., posted on June 29, 2008 at 21:45:28
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 << Switching off the all else yielded an improvement and then I switched off the fridge, even more improvement. >>

Switching off the video is inconvenient but not impractical. Switching off the fridge can lead to big problems -- you really don't want to go there!

Do a search for posts by Al Sekala. He has addressed this topic many times and has a lot of practical tips about how to limit the noise from your appliances from reaching your audio system. Not only does Al have a lot of experience and good advice, but his tips tend to be fairly low-priced tweaks. You don't have to spend thousands of dollars to make big improvements in the sound of your system.

PS -- Thanks for sharing, posted on June 29, 2008 at 21:47:46
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 By the way, thanks for actually trying the experiment and then sharing your results with the other forum members. (I'm always surprised by the people that find it easier to insult me than to actually try the test for themselves.)

Doesn't the KX-R address the second issue, posted on June 29, 2008 at 22:56:13
Bar81
Audiophile

Posts: 158
Joined: May 4, 2008
 by lifting the grounds of unused inputs so it doesn't matter what's attached to the preamp?

Rather..., posted on June 30, 2008 at 05:10:16
Bar81
Audiophile

Posts: 158
Joined: May 4, 2008
 I should be thanking you for the advice as it was pretty remarkable how much of an improvement in soundstage width and depth I got (it was the same as listening late night/early morning on the weekend which is not typically the case); I was under the impression that simply isolating everything audio is enough (it obviously isn't). Thanks also for the MX-R and, particularly, the KX-R; I can't imagine music reproduction without them.

RE: Doesn't the KX-R address the second issue, posted on June 30, 2008 at 08:46:25
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4506
Joined: August 1, 2001
 The problem with RFI is that it's kind of like that slime monster in the old horror flick -- it can sneak in just about anywhere.

Lifting the ground helps, but the RFI is still being "broadcast" by the cables in your video system. It's also getting into your AC house wiring and coupling by both radiation and directly into the power supplies.

You'll never completely eliminate all sources of RFI. Instead, you just work at reducing them until you get a sound that you are happy with. Some things to do:

a) Get some of the filters Al Sekala recommends (search the archives) and install them near your appliances.

b) Try out the Ayre L-5xe on your audio gear.

c) If you have a Wi-Fi system in your house, get rid of it and have it replaced with a wired Ethernet system. (Depending on your house construction, this will cost a few hundred dollars.)

d) Other problem gadgets include cordless 'phones and garage door openers. Search the archives for more information.

Everything makes a difference, but at some point you have to stop worrying about it and just enjoy the music. At the same time, there are a few basic things that make a big difference. So go for the low hanging fruit first and then if you get the itch, later on you can tackle some of the other problems.

I Wonder What This Player Would Cost..., posted on June 30, 2008 at 09:28:22
Gerry E.
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Posts: 1756
Location: Hartford, Connect-I-Cut
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Contributor
  Since: March 2, 2004
 If it were made by Marantz, Esoteric, McIntosh, etc.? It just seems like a lot of money for a start-up company's first product. Is the consumer paying significantly more for the R&D of a small company?

Also, what about economies of scale that's inherent with the bigger companies mentioned above? Last, that's a lot of money considering you don't know if the company will be around in 5, 2 or even 1 year from now. What's the success rate for new start-ups? Especially in the high-end audio business.

Gerry

IME large companies design these types of products by committee.., posted on June 30, 2008 at 09:53:54
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 leading to products that might have good parts but don't live up to their full potential. IME the best products come from relatively small companies, like Rowland, Emm, DCS where one talented designer has the ability to design a superior product from chassis to outputs.

Certainly there's more risk with a start up and each prospective buyer must do their own risk/reward analysis to decide if this fits their individual appetite for risk. We each have a different risk tolerance, but there's no such thing as a risk free purchase, it's just matters of degree.

Regarding the MPS-5, we know that the chassis is solid and the Esoteric VOSP transport is among the best, but the rest is yet to be seen.

Yes, a start up company has R&D cost, just like a big company, but a designer like Andreas Koch has been working this territory for years and probably had ideas in mind before the company started. Still, you have to source the transport, the chassis, the boards, the DAC, etc., which takes time and money. Elsewhere in the thread Mr. Hansen talks about the high cost of these parts, so, particularly at the introductory price, it's easy to see that there might not be a whole ton of profit in the early machines. However, given Mr. Koch's directly applicable industry experience, he was well positioned to develop such a product, evidently.
Dave

TEAC (Esoteric) has economies of scale..., posted on June 30, 2008 at 10:00:21
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 ...and so does Marantz and Mc. Do their CDPs sound as good as DCS, Emm and Playback Designs?? Some people will say "yes" and I say to those people that's what they sound buy; however, some say "no" and for those they need to look to the smaller copanies, IMHO.
Dave

(( Too bad Charles does not come up with a SACD player that is MULTI_CHANNEL )), posted on June 30, 2008 at 12:40:38
Robert C. Lang
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Posts: 2944
Joined: March 1, 2001
 You have in the past given common sense responses as to why you have never offered multi-channel. And I am sure there are solid economic based reasons why there is a dearth of high-end multi-channel SACD (no video) players. So, there is no need to respond, except for the education of others. But I thought I would put my 2 cents in.

Robert C. Lang

Two-hours with headphones, pure bliss..., posted on June 30, 2008 at 20:18:20
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 How many rigs can you listen to for two-hours, with nothing but CDs as sources, at loud levels and not get fatigued? It's hard to quanify the listening level, but it was as if I were listening to my speakers at around 90dB average, which I consider loud. Here's what I listened to:
Richard Thompson's "Rumor and Sigh" -- "1952 Vincent Black Lightning"
Ray Charle's "Ray Sings***Basie Swings" -- "Oh What a Beautiful Morning" and "Georgia on My Mind"
Jennifer Warnes "Famous Blue Raincoat" -- "If it Be Thy Will", "Ballad of the Runaway Horse" and "Song of Bernadette"
Various Artists "Strike A Deep Chord" -- Dr. John and Odetta "Brother Can You Spare a Dime" and Odetta "America The Beautiful"
Frank Sinatra "The Heart of the Matter" a Starbucks release -- I listened to the whole thing

My AKG K701 cans have been recabled with Cardas and they were driven by my stock Woo Audio WA6 headphone amp with a Holland GZ34 rectifier, so my headphone setup is pretty smooth. Still, prior to the MPS-6 I mainly listened to vinyl and SACD with cans.

I can't believe how much detail I could hear without any glare or harshness added on top. I've always enjoyed "Strike a Deep Chord" but thought it was a little hard sounding before. That's totally gone now. You hear the gravel in Dr. John's voice and the rich resonance of Odetta's ample voice. Dr. John's piano has no clang, the steel slide guitar is clear with no edge.

Ray Charle's voice is amazingly close. It's hard to believe this isn't a studio recording, but his voice comes from a live concert and the basie band was added. When the band comes in...POW, it rocks you back on your heels. The trumpet sizzle is perfect and you can follow every line in the band.

Jennifer Warnes' synth bass on "If It Be Thy Will" is solid, subterrainian and textured. Her voice is crystal clear with no "shout" or "hoot" to it. On "Runaway Horse" there are all kinds of little details that come through crystal clear.

Richard Thompson plays acoustic guitar, with thumbpick throughout "1952 Vincent Black Lightning". You never lose track of his guitar line and his voice is rich, husky and detailed.

The Sinatra CD is surprisingly well done. I just listened to it start to finish. His voice is rich, textured and clear. The Riddle and May bands just blaze. I love that sound.

Anyway, the bottom line is I listened hard for two-hours at a level that was only a step or two below damaging with "normal" sources. My ears feel great. Removing that digital glaze makes an amazing difference. Remember, these were all CDs, with not a SACD to be seen.

Dave

Well, well, well, posted on July 1, 2008 at 07:05:09
xxyyzz
 Nice review. Sounds like you have make some great improvements to your system.

Don't apologize for not being able to compare the unit to comparably-priced units. It is also useful to compare equipment to less expensive components to understand the magnitude of difference.

Cheers

cx-7e review, posted on July 1, 2008 at 14:00:59
tngiloy
 Mr. Hansen,
Please check the online magazine "Tone" for a review of your cx-7e. This review should be linked to on the Ayre review page. I couldn't agree with it more. Exellent review.
Keep up the good work.
tngiloy@hotmail.com

Decision Factors?, posted on July 2, 2008 at 07:43:17
Gerry E.
Audiophile

Posts: 1756
Location: Hartford, Connect-I-Cut
Joined: February 19, 2000
Contributor
  Since: March 2, 2004
 Dave:

You have your occupation listed as "Financial Consultant". Now, you wouldn't invest your clients money in a start-up fund without any track record, would you? Maybe the answer to that "it depends".

With the above in mind, what major factors contributed to your decision to purchase the Playback Designs unit given their lack of a track record (since they are a start-up)? Thanks.

Gerry

Evaluating and taking risks..., posted on July 2, 2008 at 08:25:26
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Hi Gerry, good questions.

My clients are large corporations, not individuals, but the same risk principals apply. Investors in start ups have a higher tolerance for risk than investors in "blue chips". My own risk tolerance is high, despite being 60, because I have a high income, high net worth and I'm a very experienced investor (CPA, lifelong corporate finance guy, professional advisor, etc.). Still, I recommend diversification for anyone. People have made huge fortunes putting all their eggs in one basket and rolling the dice, but thousands fail for everyone that lucks out. (BTW, over half my personal funds are in cash right now and I sold 90% of my oil stocks two-weeks ago, hoping to buy back in this fall, after an "oil correction").

So, we know that my risk tolerance is high. I investigated Playback Designs, particularly Mr. Koch, and heard nothing but things that made me want to invest. The reviews of Smith, Lavigne and Robinson (having lurked and read these guys' post over time, I felt like I knew their tastes) were powerful and I had a nice long talk with Mr. Tinn. The price is going up $5000 and all the best competing equipment is also made by small companies and costs as much or way more.

I knew that I was going to make a purchase like this within the next few months and had been leaning toward the Emm or dCS previously. The direct comparison to Emm, the choice of Esoteric transport, the reviews, Mr. Koch’s reputation and the $5000 told me, "DO IT." So that's how I made my decision.

For someone with a lower risk tolerance "it'll depend". A key is, are you going to make this type of investment in the next year? If so, then you have to consider the PD mighty hard. Realize that established small companies can disappear as quickly or more so than small brand new companies. At PD, Koch and Tinn are doing just about everything themselves. It's easier to a survive start up in the teeth of a recession than sustain a luxury business that's built some infrastructure and suddenly needs to lay off 40% of its staff. An 8-week delay in such circumstances can be fatal. (Believe me; I've been through that more than once).

Dave

MPS-5 performance comparing CD to SACD of the same album..., posted on July 5, 2008 at 12:40:27
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 I did some comparison of CD to SACD and CD-layer vs. SACD-stereo-layer on some hybrid SACDs:

I've only got a handful of discs with both a pure CD release AND a hybrid SACD. In every case, the original CD and the CD layer on the hybrid sound very different, but mainly due to apparently different choices made by the respective mastering engineers rather than any difference in the basic technology.

Comparing the CD layer to the stereo SACD layer on the same disc, the CD layer tended to have more bloom in the bass and more harmonics throughout the frequency range. The SACD layer was more precise and better controlled. I think this may largely be due to the upconverting logarithms that my Playback Designs MPS-5 applies to the CDs and CD layers, upconverting 16/44 to DSD.

Through the MPS-5 the SACD vs. CD differences are very small. I didn't pull my old Pioneer Elite universal out to compare again, but the CDs through the Pioneer had glare and hardness that made them tiring over any kind of long listening session. The MPS-5 not only gets of that glare but closes the gap to SACD to the point where I could be comfortable without SACD.

Dave

Interesting, posted on July 5, 2008 at 18:51:42
Metralla
Audiophile

Posts: 6930
Location: San Jose, California
Joined: January 30, 2001
 Thanks for your updates.

Regards,
Geoff

Interesting..., posted on July 6, 2008 at 06:23:35
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 dCS P8i actually does the same thing to CD that makes it very listenable. They say they upsample it to DSD, whatever it means.

But at the end, SACD sounds better for both DSD direct recordings or for old re-masters like Rolling Stones.

PS: by the way, how are the digital inputs including the USB.

RE: Interesting..., posted on July 6, 2008 at 06:30:05
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Sorry Kenny, but I'm still waiting on my new replacement digital cable. Hopefully I'll be trying the digital inputs very soon.

Dave
Dave

Digital Inputs Followup, posted on July 13, 2008 at 19:42:04
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 I received my Analysis Plus digital coax cable this week and inserted my Pioneer Elite DV-58AV universal player (modified by Ric Schultz)to use as a DVD-A and odd format transport, feeding into the Playback Design's digital input and DAC.

First, I played every DVD-A that I own. Most are 24/96 but "iRobot" is 24/192. The PD had no trouble locking into any of the DVD's signals. For a while I kept the analog-out of the Pioneer hooked into my Rowland integrated via unbalanced RCA so that I could bypass the PD and truly compare the two. Well, all sounded better through the PD, even "iRobot". I wasn't sure what to expect because when the digital signal was captured the screen would change from "44.1" (expecting CD I guess) to "COAX 48kHhz", even with the 24/192 disc. I'm not sure what was going on and I guess I'll need to write Andreas unless someone on the forum knows. I suspect that the sampling rate may have been limited to 48kHz by the Pioneer. I can't find anything clear in the Pioneer's manual and specs, regarding its digital output; however, it says under "Compressed Audio Compatability", "Sampling rates: 32kHz, 44.1kHz and 48kHz." So, I suspect that's the highest digital-out offered by the Pioneer, no matter the disc's capacity.

Let me talk briefly about Redbook, where I'm certain there's no down-conversion, just straight 44.1 into the PD's DAC. I used three cuts off Jennifer Warnes CD "FamousBlueRaincoat" listening to "Joan of Arc", "Ballad of the Runaway Horse" and "If it Be Your Will". Those tunes give quite a range of deep bass, great vocal, atmospheric out of phase images, depth and width. Earlier in the thread I talked about the Pioneer's Redbook vs. PD. It was no contest, with the Pioneer showing a much smaller image in width and height, much less richness in the mids and deep bass and all made worse with a glare over the top. Using the Pioneer as a transport and running through the PD's DAC really narrowed the gap dramatically. The main difference was in solidity of bass and the image size was now only slightly smaller when using the Pioneer transport vs. the PD's Esoteric transport. It was actually very good and would put the Pioneer in a top echelon. Said in other words, about 90% of the gain from the MPS-5 is in it's DAC. Using a fairly mudane transport gave me much of the gain of the full MPS-5 treatment on Redbook. The PD's Redbook performance is truly astounding, lagging only slightly behind SACD (see my separate post on that matter elsewhere in this thread).

With DVDs the story is a little different. The sampling rate of the DVD didn't seem to matter. I found the "iRobot" final cut "Genisis" was astounding on my Pioneer. It's very thick and complex, with lot's of out of phase signal creating a huge 180-degree wide image. When I ran that DVD through the PD's DAC, the image got taller and the bass got more solid, but it wasn't anywhere near as dramatic an improvement as with the CDs. The Pioneer is actually a pretty darn good DVD player. (Remember, Ric Schultz beefed up the input and output stages and put in a Superclock 4, among other things). Still, there was a major gain from going through the MPS-5's DAC.

Unfortunately I ran out of time before I could mess around with music via USB. I'll try to get to that in the next week. Hopefully when I plug my laptop into the MPS-5 it'll recognize it the laptop as a player. I've never sent a music signal out the USB, so any advice would be welcome. (It's a Windows PC running XP with Media Player installed. I can easily add another program if needed). I'm not sure how valid this'll be, because I assume that a computer music server will have a much higher grade sound card.

Dave

Thank you !, posted on July 14, 2008 at 05:54:59
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 Thanks for the post ! Pioneer, and many other Blu-ray DVD player, indeed downmixes to 48KHz when they encounter any signal over 96KHz. It is written in the manuals of Panasonic/Samsung's current range of Blu-ray players. It may be because SPDIF cannot support 24/196.

Appreciate it if you can post the USB findings too.

By the way, do you happen to audition a dCS Puccini ? although there is a price gap between them, they are both the latest batch of 1-box SACD player.
RE: Thank you !, posted on July 14, 2008 at 08:33:49
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Yes, I'll get to the USB part of the review in the next week or so. Do you know, will a Windows machine with Window Media Player present a digital music signal to the USB port without an additional program?

I'll look for a dCS Puccini for comparison. No promises.

Dave
Dave

RE: REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on August 21, 2008 at 12:12:35
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Yesterday I travelled up the mountainside, literally, to visit Neli and Mike at Audio Federation. I’d ordered some HRS isolation bases through them and the main purpose of my trip was to pick up my new HRS bases (review to come). Neli suggested that we also use the visit for me to hear their other products and take the opportunity to compare my Playback Designs MPS-5 to their Meitner CDSA-SE (with the latest German transport).

I spent a total of two-hours checking out their wares before we got around to comparing the CDSA and MPS-5. This was a very informal comparison that lasted just over an hour. We didn’t precisely match levels and we physically swapped out the Meitner and the Playback Designs in the Meitner’s position on their very nice and substantial HRS rack. We used the same power cord and ICs into a Lamm system driving $295,000, 70” tall Marten Coltrane Supremes. The room had good volume with about a 20’ ceiling and easily handled the big Marten’s. Neli and Mike thought that they had over 1,000 hours on their CDSA-SE and I think that I’m between 300 to 400-hours on my MPS-5.

Both units have stout chassis and look to be very well built. Neither is out of billet aluminum, but the chassis are thick enough that RFI containment and rejection should be at a high level. The PD does have the advantage of a full complement of digital inputs, which the Emm totally lacks. I already use the PD’s digital inputs as a DAC when playing DVD-A and other oddball disc formats that the MPS-5 can’t handle on its own. I also plan to make the DAC the foundation of the music server system that I plan to build or buy in the next year or so. (See the Stereophile review of the Sooloos and the poor performance of that $10,000+ unit’s DAC). If you’ve already got a really good standalone DAC this wouldn’t be an issue, but those digital inputs are a big plus to me. The DACs within both these machines are both in the top echelon of DACs, so it’s nice to be able to use them in different contexts.

The reader should treat the following comments as “first impressions”, since there was no rigorous matching of levels and we only switched the players in and out twice. We played a wide range of CDs and SACDs and we’d all hear something, but not investigate further to totally define what we were hearing. The PD was cold when it was thrown into the home of the Meitner, etc., etc. Despite these shortcomings, I feel like the differences were actually relatively obvious and deserve to be added to the comments already made by Mike Lavigne, Ted Smith and others in other threads.

Let’s start out by talking about what both units do very well; they both remove the digital glare that plagues so many otherwise good CDs. One of my favorite CDs for demonstrating that is “Trumpets in Stride” with five trumpets, tuba and piano playing old songs in stride style. A great cut is “Cornet Chop Suey” which gives you all five trumpets, solo trumpet, solo tuba and solo stride piano. Played on lesser machines this wonderful music just eats up your ears with trumpet blare and piano jangle and edge everywhere. It’s clearly a digital artifact added somewhere along the chain to mastering. Before the CDSA/MPS comparison we listened to this cut of this disc on a couple of lesser players in lesser systems and the edge was apparent. With both the CDSA and MPS-5 the glare and edge was gone. Highs weren’t chopped off, they were cleaned up instead.

The imaging of both units is stellar, rendering a bigger soundstage that “ordinary” CDPs and giving coherence to the presentation. Odetta’s performance of “America the Beautiful” on the CD “Strike a Deep Chord” can sound disjointed on lesser machines. Dr. John’s out of tune piano solo can sound harsh and jolting. With both the Playback Designs and the Emm the image and performance was a whole solidified. Yes, Dr. John’s piano was still out of tune, but it fit into the studio and had a full image of a complete piano.

With regard to lack of digital glare and consistently throwing complete, musical images, I’d rate these two players very, very close. Removing that glare and replacing it with natural sounding music with smooth, realistic, sweet highs, makes either acceptable in a fine system. Without naming names, the improvement from typical $3,000 to $5,000 players is close to monumental. Now that I’ve heard this level of playback (no pun intended), I could never go back to those lesser machines. Some great CDs sound great on almost any machine, but average CDs and the worst CDs sound just nasty to me when played on lesser machines than either of these.

Let me talk more about imaging. When you throw “Dark Side of The Moon” at either, or Radiohead’s “In Rainbows” you get HUGE images, extending well out in front and to the sides and over the speakers. These images literally filled the end of Neli and Mike’s demo room, all the way up to the top of the 20’ ceiling. The Coltrane Supremes didn’t strain in the least in throwing these huge images. I’d rate these types of images as very similar, but different. So many sounds are coming at you from so many angles that it’s hard to keep track of them. Mike thought that the CDSA-SE kept better track of such things, with more stability. Perhaps that was because he was hearing what he was used to hearing. We all agreed that the images were different, yet both were very attractive. Of course with heavily manipulated studio masterworks it’s really impossible to say what’s right. If you like “blow your mind” style images, then either player delivers in spades.

A little more down to earth is Odetta’s “America”. The MPS-5 placed her higher and to the left in a larger space than the CDSA-SE’s similar placement. If the CDSA-SE presented a 6’ sphere of sound, then the MPS-5 was a 10’ sphere. What’s right, who knows?

While still on the subject of imaging, let me jump to the end of the session when Neli put on one of her favorite recordings by the Portuguese singer is Cristina Branco. OMG, it starts a capella with the song, “Sonhie Que Estavea El Portugal”. Both the artist and song are totally new to me, but the vocal floored me. With the Playback Designs it was like she was elevated between the two speakers with a voice that was several feet tall and wide. I asked Mike if he knew how they had miked that cut and wondered aloud if they had two mics and she’d stood between them. The timbre and richness of her voice was overwhelming.

What really confused me was when we put the Emm back into the system as I prepared to leave. One of us said, let’s listen to that again. When we did, the image was more like you expect, covering less space and seeming to come from one point rather than a much larger area. This difference was very large. We turned the volume up on the Emm to make sure that we were just hearing a gain difference, but the image stayed where it was.

We were at a loss to explain these imaging differences. When we listened to orchestral, or piano the images were much closer in size and placement and seemed “correct” on both machines. I’m thinking that there may be a little studio trickery in the Branco recording. It’s seems to be recorded in a very reverberant space with either one or two mics for the vocalist and maybe a touch of some processing added. I wonder if that processing is playing with the phase information on the disc and the two players are interpreting it differently. All I know is, they presented this disc very differently. Both were very pleasing, but considerably different.

One thing that we all noticed immediately and totally agreed on was the midrange presentation. On the Playback Designs singers and solo instruments are slightly more forward. There was only a step or so difference, but you notice this easily and quickly. Piano has slightly more body on with the MPS-5 and solo instruments had slightly more prominence.

What can I suggest to anyone that is choosing between these two machines, but doesn’t have the opportunity to compare them? First, you should rest assured that both are very good. Neither is obviously and clearly “righter” than the other. I can only offer this; if you like a lighter presentation with slightly more emphasis on detail, then go for the Emm. If you like a little more body and forwardness and you like bigger images, then go for the Playback Designs. You can take comfort that neither machine does anything wrong. If you could use an excellent DAC with external sources, then the Playback Designs has a clear advantage in this one regard.

Thanks to Neli and Mike and Audio Federation for their hospitality.
Dave

RE: REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on August 22, 2008 at 17:48:40
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 Hello Dave; thanks for your informative post. It is not surprising that the EMM & PD sound similar because they are designed by the same team.

PS: I like the photos you posted in Audiogon. 1st time the transport tray is seen. Is it a metal tray ? the remote is good too, listing all the inputs. It should be very convenient.
RE: REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on August 22, 2008 at 18:03:57
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 I think that Andreas would say that the biggest difference in the team is a lack of other team members. This is his baby start to finish and he was able to build exactly what he had in mind.

The drawer seems to be a black anodized metal (probably aluminum.

Dave
Dave

Audio Federation's Impressions of Playback Designs, posted on August 23, 2008 at 17:24:51
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 See Audio Federation's Blog for their impressions of our comparative listening session.
Dave

RE: Audio Federation's Impressions of Playback Designs, posted on August 23, 2008 at 22:45:50
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 Thanks ! It is an interesting write up. Very interesting to read that it says PD "has a higher noise floor" and that it tries to put explanations on the "differences". It seems to me that it is quite a bias review trying to defend the performance of a 1 player against the other.
RE: Audio Federation's Impressions of Playback Designs, posted on August 24, 2008 at 07:44:00
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Kenny, I can't disagree with you.
Dave

RE: Audio Federation's Impressions of Playback Designs, posted on August 24, 2008 at 15:35:29
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Here are a few things that I'd do different if doing this comparo again and only had an hour to an hour and a half:

First, I'd avoid Pink Floyd and Radiohead. As much fun as they are to listen to, they're chocked so full of purposely out of phase signals and flying voices and electronic noises that you can't evaluate what's "right". These albums sounded so different on these two players that it was mesmerizing, but not real useful.

Next, or really first, match levels. We didn't do this and it's really critical. The machines clearly had different output levels, yet we simply adjusted by ear, a real no-no.

Next, set up both players with equivalent ICs so that you can move back and forth with ease. Physically switching is a chore and reduced the comparative analysis that we might have otherwise done.

Limit your listening to three or four discs, each with a purpose. On CDs, this needs to include one loaded with glare on lesser machines to see what magic is done, if any. Another disc should focus on midrange accuracy, so a female vocal, either a cappella or with a small group. Next, listen to a BIG orchestral piece that has micro dynamics and blockbuster sound. (I love Mahler for this). Focus on both ends of the dynamic spectrum. Include a really densely scored disc to see how the lines stay separate, or not. (Mahler is good again). Include a solo piano disc with big dynamcis.

When possible, listen in balanced and unbalanced modes. (Both were unbalanced in this case, despite the PD's balanced mode excellence.)

On a hybrid SACD compare the CD layer and SACD layer on both machines.

We could have done that in an hour, IF we'd been focused on getting it done and had all the needed parts. We spent too much time enjoying music and didn't "work" hard enough.

The goal should be to identify performance in both CD and SACD modes, balanced and unbalanced, and comment on balance, musicality, micro and macro dynamics, timbral presentation and, above all, never use the word PRaT. (Just kidding Mike).

Given way more luxurious time, I'd run the transport of one through the DAC of the other and vice versa, if possible (the Emm doesn't allow this). I've found this useful for hearing differences between DACs and transports.

With more time, I'd also pull in the Pink Floyd and Radiohead and do some phrase by phrase comparisons to see what's happen, or at least be able to say, "this one did this and the other one did that."

Finally, with more time I'd just spend...more time, seeing where the investigation leads me and just enjoying the process.

Dave

No worries..., posted on August 25, 2008 at 07:36:58
Kenny
Audiophile

Posts: 159
Joined: August 27, 2002
 I feel that this is a no-win situation for a shoot-out. 1st, the home team would win every time as it would take a lot of time for a hi-fi gear to settle down after moving. And 2ndly, from my experience, I feel it takes some time for the gears - the CDP, pre-amp, power amp, even cables, to get familiar with each other before they can sing along producing harmony, otherwise, they just sound raw.

I also feel it is kind of a low-blow to mention that a high-end gear has a higher noise floor and that the "rounding" of the sound. I hope PD can release more information about the materials of its printed circuit boards (PCB). EMM labs uses a very high grade PCB, so I hope PD also too. My ex-Accuphase DP-85 uses a teflon PCB, the best of the dielectric materials so it is the most quiet, but then it makes the Accuphase sound too mechanical. Nevertheless, materials only play a part. Anyway, I have never known anyone saying CD/SACD is better than LP even analog has a higher noise floor and less dynamics. My point is, why bother.

In most cases, I would say it is best to trust a musician writing a review. They are never wrong, never guessing if a music note is real or fake. If a hi-fi gear cannot re-produce a sense to the listener that the music is real and fun and stress free, then, why bother again.

^_^ anyway take it easy la...
Thanks for the vote of infallibility Kenny..., posted on August 25, 2008 at 08:27:14
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 We didn't even talk about the noise floor during the session. It certainly didn't jump out at me. I'd be willing to re-listen, but it would need to be at least a four-hours session to touch all the bases.

It's interesting that you mention the need for equipment to settle into a system. I agree with this, but didn't really hear a disadvantage. Not ideally, but second best would have been to put the PD into the sytem, then listen at least an hour before doing any comparison. Also, we need to avoid pulling one out, tunring it off and putting the other in. They both need to be on the whole time and level-matched.
Dave

HRS M3 Isolation Base added, posted on September 3, 2008 at 13:37:36
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Last weekend I installed a HRS M3 17"X19" Isolation Base under the MPS-5. I'd put one under my turntable with clear, positive results, but I thought that under the MPS-5 it might end up just being an expensive guilding of the lily. Despite the whole thing being mounted in a heavy, solid armoire, the increase in bass clarity and transparency in really loud, dense passages were stunning.

These are relatively expensive isolation bases that I bought based upon reviews, white papers and the usual hype. They're really very well made, very attractive and, best of all, they work very well.

Dave

RE: REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on December 11, 2008 at 07:56:44
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Playback Designs now has a web site, referenced below:

For owners, there's a firmware update allowing 24/192 input.
Dave

New Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on December 13, 2008 at 22:23:21
Bruce B
Industry Professional

Posts: 478
Location: Seattle
Joined: February 9, 2001
 I just got mine a few days ago and it has the multi-channel optical option. Pretty slick. Just have been burning it in and so far this thing is SWEET!!

Regards,
Bruce

RE: REVIEW: Playback Designs MPS-5 SACD Player, posted on February 16, 2009 at 20:03:26
dcstep@swbell.net
Audiophile

Posts: 347
Location: Denver
Joined: April 1, 2008
 Last week Playback Designs offered a firmware update for the MPS-5. The stated benefit is to further improve CD playback. Now, a week later, the update has been updated. This is a story of an unanticipated problem and how the manufacturer quickly rectified it.

I installed the update on Saturday morning (for you PD owners it has an "18" in it's file name) and was enjoying the increased bass impact reported earlier. I was going from CD to CD and noting the bass impact and ever so slightly more openness in the mids. The highs seemed about the same to me, but then I came to my friend Al Hood's CD "a little taste". Darn if I didn't hear the solo trumpet break up when it got to bravura style, well over the dynamic level of the rest of the recording. I thought to myself, "gee wiz how could I have missed that when I listened before? Al needs to clean up his production."

Later I was listening to Rose Marie and a trumpet obligato in the CD did the same thing. Next I threw Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band at the PD, playing "Back Row Politics" from the "act your age" CD. The cut was fine until the trumpeters started taking their solos and it just fell apart, with nasty distortion on the trumpet solos.

I wrote an email to Andreas and Jonathan explaining my trouble. Within hours Andreas wrote back for details and asked some questions. Andreas was able to replicate the issue and rewrote the update code. PD users should use the update with "19" in the name, the only one on the site as of today. Install it just like the first firmware update.

I've only been listening an hour now, but I played the offending cuts first, with no issues whatsoever, in fact, the trumpets now have more of the "brr" and "sizzle" of real live lead trumpets.

The most obvious change with the update is the increase in bass impact. If you've got some really hotly recorded lead trumpet (Chris Botti won't do), then you'll hear the "brr" and "sizzle" that you hear when you stand in front of a really good section. (I'm a trumpeter and hear lots and lots of live trumpet). All the rest of the frequency spectrum is ever so slightly more stress free than before (the PD was already excellent in this regard). This update takes what the PD already did well and adds an extra nth or ten to that.

I really appreciate how Andreas jumped on this and had a solution out very quickly. He might have done it even quicker if I hadn't been slow to answer his questions as I was busy with some weekend chores. This is very impressive. It'd be nice if we were all infallable, but none of us are and how we react to a slip is what really defines us. PD gets a top score for this.

The thought crossed my mind to not point out this little slip up, but users need to use this latest update in case the bug appears later. I re-installed the first update and the bug went away, but the final update is better with trumpet, otherwise they're much alike (but for the bug). Andreas says to use the newest update to avoid any issue.
Dave

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