Audiogon Phishing

50.46.214.149

Posted on May 14, 2012 at 17:28:01

giantnutz
Audiophile

Posts: 51
Location: WA
Joined: January 7, 2012

I still have a couple of items listed for sale on Audogon.(when they expire, I'm done) Almost daily, I get an email from someone with no feedback,who wants me to reply directly to their email. The scammers don't even make the effort to name the piece. It's always" advertised item". They always want my address and phone number and are ready to purchase now...with a little more info. At first, I submitted the username to A'gon support and they replied back that it was a scammer...they've suspended his membership...and there were going to be security measures in place soon to prevent this in the future. Yeah right. I just started replying with,"Item is in great condition.It gets very little use here in the FBI fraud department."

Anyone else experiencing this?

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RE: Audiogon Phishing - and nobody cares!

Jerry Seigel

09:50:57 05/20/12

RE: Audiogon Phishing - and nobody cares!

Q-authority

18:29:03 05/29/12

In some cases, they're harvesting Email addresses.......

Alpha Al

09:35:46 05/15/12

...

Show full thread outline!

RE: Audiogon Phishing - and nobody cares!

Jerry Seigel

09:50:57 05/20/12

RE: Audiogon Phishing - and nobody cares!

Q-authority

18:29:03 05/29/12

In some cases, they're harvesting Email addresses.......

Alpha Al

09:35:46 05/15/12

My question to you is.....

Ozzy

02:51:44 05/15/12

workaround

nsgarch

13:23:41 05/16/12

RE: workaround

Djoel

13:04:39 05/17/12

RE: My question to you is.....

giantnutz

05:14:43 05/15/12

By accident

Frihed89

05:04:05 05/15/12

Gone Fishing??

Todd Krieger

20:47:13 05/14/12

RE: Audiogon Phishing

winstoncheng888@hotmail.com

20:18:58 05/14/12

I'm presuming you gave him your home address

Mike K

20:33:44 05/14/12

RE: I'm presuming you gave him your home address

schlagelk

11:11:45 05/15/12

RE: I'm presuming you gave him your home address

robert920rogers@gmail.com

14:24:23 05/15/12

RE: Audiogon Phishing

AbeCollins

18:56:42 05/14/12

Glad to see your comment

"Red"

14:14:56 06/01/12

RE: Glad to see your comment

giantnutz

13:34:13 06/03/12

Fraud and Censorship on Audiogon

kayelefkay

19:25:48 06/01/12

Ok I'll Bite....

"Red"

09:33:06 06/04/12

Ok I'll Bite....

"Red"

19:07:14 06/03/12

RE: Ok I'll Bite....

kayelefkay

22:57:36 06/03/12

RE: Ok I'll Bite....

kayelefkay

22:53:27 06/03/12

Thank you for a very thoughtful and reasoned response

"Red"

05:08:53 06/04/12

RE: Thank you for a very thoughtful and reasoned response

kayelefkay

07:52:13 06/05/12

RE: Audiogon Phishing

Justlisten2

17:35:16 05/14/12

RE: Audiogon Phishing

TubeBuilder

02:41:30 06/04/12

RE: Audiogon Phishing, posted on May 14, 2012 at 17:35:16
Justlisten2 Audiophile Posts: 1266 Location: SE PA Joined: March 8, 2001	Yes, it's gotten worse under the new AudiogoN redesign. More scammers, more bottom feeders, but still more regular activity than any other site that I've tried to sell stuff on. So more activity? Yes, but that, like anything else in life, is a double edged sword. More serious buyers, more nutjobs.

RE: Audiogon Phishing, posted on May 14, 2012 at 18:56:42
AbeCollins Audiophile Posts: 46280 Location: USA Joined: June 22, 2001 Contributor Since: February 2, 2002	I haven't had that many phishing attempts but I do get more tire kickers and low ballers than ever before. That being said, I still think it's hard to beat Audiogon's vibrant community of serious buyers and sellers. You just have to put up with more crap these days.

RE: Audiogon Phishing, posted on May 14, 2012 at 20:18:58

winstoncheng888@hotmail.com
Audiophile

Posts: 167
Location: San Diego
Joined: October 6, 2003

I got a response from someone for my Basis turntable on audiogon. He wanted to pay me with a bank check and then wanted me to let him know when I received the check so that he could send his "movers" to come pick up the turntable. I told him the only way I would transact was by Paypal. He fedexed the check anyways. When I received, I emailed him just to see what he would do. He told me that he was going to send his movers right away. I told him sure send them right now. Then I sent another email saying, "I'll be waiting here with a shotgun and the cops". Never heard from him again. Scum like that just really get under my skin like no other.

I'm presuming you gave him your home address, posted on May 14, 2012 at 20:33:44

Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13973
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999

which is something you should never, ever give to anyone you don't know
intimately under any circumstances. Use a PO box for ALL snail mail
transactions. Or better yet, set up a "ghost" address and have mail
sent there. That way, you could get the check, deposit it in the
bank account you keep very little money in, wait until it clears, and
then let the buyer have the goods. Scam the scammers.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

Gone Fishing??, posted on May 14, 2012 at 20:47:13
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	[-;

My question to you is....., posted on May 15, 2012 at 02:51:44
Ozzy Audiophile Posts: 7588 Joined: September 21, 1999	...how did they even get your email address? That is a no no on Agon. I would love to be able to email other users from time to time, but it's not to be. Oz Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you. - Winston Churchill

By accident, posted on May 15, 2012 at 05:04:05
Frihed89 Audiophile Posts: 15703 Location: Copenhagen Joined: March 21, 2005	They send the same letter to 100,000s people whose email addresses have been compromised, directly or indirectly, by trojan horses.

RE: My question to you is....., posted on May 15, 2012 at 05:14:43
giantnutz Audiophile Posts: 51 Location: WA Joined: January 7, 2012	They contacted me through A'gon. But included an email and asked me to reply directly to that.

In some cases, they're harvesting Email addresses......., posted on May 15, 2012 at 09:35:46
Alpha Al Industry Professional Posts: 2958 Location: N. Carolina Joined: February 16, 2004 Contributor Since: December 3, 2015	for spammers. Once they have a valid Email address, your amount of spam goes up exponentially.

RE: I'm presuming you gave him your home address, posted on May 15, 2012 at 11:11:45
schlagelk Audiophile Posts: 85 Location: Midwest Joined: December 22, 2003	I had the same thing happen a few years ago when I listed an item on Audiogon. I gave them an address of Herman Munster at 123 Main Street in Transylvania, PA and the morons actually paid to send a UPS Next Day Air envelope to the fictitious address. They must not have old re-runs on Nigerian TV.

RE: I'm presuming you gave him your home address, posted on May 15, 2012 at 14:24:23
robert920rogers@gmail.com Audiophile Posts: 1048 Location: southern california Joined: February 9, 2010	Because they knew 1313 Mockingbird Lane was the Munsters address.

workaround, posted on May 16, 2012 at 13:23:41
nsgarch Audiophile Posts: 334 Location: Southwest USA Joined: May 7, 2004	When I post Agon ads (none at the moment) I include the URL for my (same) Asylum Trader ad and ask them to contact me through that ad. It won't filter out lowballers and scammers of course, but that's always your responsibility.

RE: workaround, posted on May 17, 2012 at 13:04:39
Djoel Audiophile Posts: 2 Joined: May 8, 2012	Yeah I'm pretty much done with Agon too, I get the scam/spam bunch emails through agon fromtime to time, they send their personal email claiming this urgency and interest, but I response via Agon system only, never to hear from them again.. Sad, Audiogon made a huge mistake, and allot of us are choosing to just walk way from them. Djoel

RE: Audiogon Phishing - and nobody cares!, posted on May 20, 2012 at 09:50:57

Jerry Seigel
Manufacturer

Posts: 35
Location: Denver
Joined: March 1, 2009

This is a constant PIA. I have a couple of checks from these scammers, one for $2600 and one for $1700, both from hacked bank accounts that were closed. I never shipped the products.

Both "buyers" asked me to send the overpayments (item purchased was around $100) via Western Union, which I refused to do. One then sent me a postal address to mail a check. I called the FBI to report the interstate bank fraud and postal issue, and they politely said "thank you" for the info, but (we) have way too many of these to investigate.

Take away: All checks should clear before shipping!

RE: Audiogon Phishing - and nobody cares!, posted on May 29, 2012 at 18:29:03
Q-authority Audiophile Posts: 25 Location: San Diego Joined: December 7, 2008	It's definitely more of an issue now, along with all of the dozens of issues that the site has in general since the redo. I have never used the site a lot, but only recently have I gotten any scammers at all, and the number that I have now gotten queries from is quite worrisome. So long, and thanks for all the fish! :-)

Glad to see your comment, posted on June 1, 2012 at 14:14:56
"Red" Audiophile Posts: 606 Location: Central Ohio Joined: January 18, 2005	Too many posters here are determined to bury Audiogon. It's still the best place to sell audio gear and often find what you interested in.

Fraud and Censorship on Audiogon, posted on June 1, 2012 at 19:25:48

kayelefkay
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: June 10, 2009

Audiogon WAS the best place to buy and sell audio gear.

I was the victim of a fraudster who hijacked some hapless seller's account and Audiogon was anything but helpful. The "seller" had 100+ positive feedback posts and so I felt safe transacting with him. However, it turns out that the seller's account had been hijacked and Audiogon eventually admitted that they did not even require confirmation from the original registered e-mail address for a change of e-mail, which one would have thought was quite basic. To make matters worse, when they discovered the fraud, they did not even bother contacting me as buyer. They simply suspended the seller's account. If not for the fact that I coincidentally grew suspicious because of a different, identical listing, I would not have found out till days later. In fact, I had to e-mail Audiogon to check what had gone wrong with my transaction because I could not access it suddenly. When I asked them why they did not contact me immediately, they simply said they could not even though both my e-mail and mobile are listed under my account. Finally, to rub salt into the wound, when I tried to share my experience with other Audiogoners, their moderators refused to post my comment on their forums.

In short, not only is fraud now rife on Audiogon, they censor and whitewash their forums in an attempt to prevent their users from finding out. How they expect that would work given that there is this thing called the Internet, I do not know.

RE: Glad to see your comment, posted on June 3, 2012 at 13:34:13
giantnutz Audiophile Posts: 51 Location: WA Joined: January 7, 2012	I'm not here to bury Audiogon. Thats where I've aquired most of my gear.I'm merely sharing my experiences of late. No one can deny that they took a huge step backward.

Ok I'll Bite...., posted on June 3, 2012 at 19:07:14
"Red" Audiophile Posts: 606 Location: Central Ohio Joined: January 18, 2005	You say, "Audiogon WAS the best place to buy and sell audio gear." ....So right now today, where is the New best place to find the most (shear volume and numbers) of manufacturer brands, and variety of used gear(all things audio), with the largest audience of buying and selling enthusiasts and audiophiles?

RE: Ok I'll Bite...., posted on June 3, 2012 at 22:53:27

kayelefkay
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: June 10, 2009

I don't believe there is an obvious new best place now.

Audiogon still has the largest volume and variety but the level of fraud has now grown very significantly. Audiogon offers almost no protection from fraud according to its terms which, in the past, was not too much of an issue. You did your own homework, checked up on the feedback of the people you dealt with, and then made your sale/purchase. Today, fraud is far more common. Since legitimate user accounts can be so easily hijacked, each transaction is now a roll of the dice. And based on my experience with how they actually handle cases of fraud when they do detect it, I must say that I am extremely disheartened. First, they took no step to notify me - the counterparty to a fraudster. In these cases, time is extremely important. The longer you wait, the harder it is to reverse a payment. Secondly, by censoring their own forums, they prevent users from understanding the risks that they are taking. I doubt if I was the first person defrauded on Audiogon recently but because they refuse to allow any posts on their forums, users don't find out and fail to take steps to protect themselves. If I'd known that user accounts had previously been hijacked, I would've insisted on a more secure means of payment.

I have transacted on eBay before. It does not have the breadth of selection that Audiogon offers but it at least affords some measure of protection from fraud, especially if you pay with Paypal. In the past, when the incidence of fraud was low on Audiogon, this legal reassurance may not have counted for much as it was more of a theoretical advantage and it was an easy decision to prefer Audiogon but today, I would caution buyers to consider carefully if the risk is worth it. Speaking for myself, I would only be willing to transact as a buyer on Audiogon if the seller accepted payment through escrow, but that is certainly not the prevalent method of payment on Audiogon. Audiogon recommends that one pays directly through credit card to obtain the fraud protection afforded by your credit card company but seriously, how many sellers on Audiogon accept such payment?

If you have a low risk appetite, the new Audiogon is not for you and it may be better to be patient (if you are a buyer) and search for what you are looking for on Ebay or through brick and mortar dealers. If you have a healthy risk appetite and are not put off by my experience, then I suppose new Audiogon remains the best place to transact. I took the trouble to vet the seller's feedback. I made sure it was not a long dormant account recently revived. I even checked that the feedback was made over a significant period of time in case some fraudster just created an account and entered into a large number of fake transactions over a short time. I paid in accordance to the terms of the advertisement (which Audiogon now says is unauthorised). Audiogon discovered the fraud but took no steps whatsoever to inform me and they censor their forums.

Don't get me wrong, there will always be risks involved in these transactions but the lack of basic security that allowed accounts to be hijacked so easily, the sheer incompetence in not notifying affected users immediately and the censorship preventing other users from learning of the risks make me shudder at transacting through Audiogon. I miss the old Audiogon.

RE: Ok I'll Bite...., posted on June 3, 2012 at 22:57:36

kayelefkay
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: June 10, 2009

I should add that, since the transaction in which I was defrauded, I tried to "deal" with another Audiogon user. I informed him that I was willing to purchase but only if I could pay through an escrow service. I deliberately chose escrow.com, which as far as I can tell, is one of the biggest escrow service providers online and which has generally favourable feedback if one does a search on the Internet.

The seller claimed to be a French lawyer who first sought to reassure me by sending me a copy of "his" passport. How this is reassuring is quite beyond me. When I insisted on escrow, he suggested (in place of payment through Paypal) that I pay directly into his account by bank transfer instead. How this is any more secure is quite beyond me and if he truly is a French lawyer, I would avoid his services like the plague. So to me, two out of two sellers (one definitely a fraudster; the other smelling fishy as hell) is not a good record for Audiogon.

This "user" also has generally positive feedback. The only negative is that he backed out of a transaction but that is a risk I am willing to take. It is again not a new account nor a dormant one.

RE: Audiogon Phishing, posted on June 4, 2012 at 02:41:30
TubeBuilder	Behind every great fortune there is a crime. Honore de Balzac(A very time ago) enjoy stuff

Thank you for a very thoughtful and reasoned response, posted on June 4, 2012 at 05:08:53
"Red" Audiophile Posts: 606 Location: Central Ohio Joined: January 18, 2005	I just made a purchase at Audiogon and it is expected to ship to me today. My previous purchase was in April. I have been fortunate to not have any issues with fraud to date. Well (maybe 1 set of IC's condition was misrepresented) a few years ago. But your experience gives me pause to consider how a pay in the future. I appreciate your detailed informaion.

Ok I'll Bite...., posted on June 4, 2012 at 09:33:06
"Red" Audiophile Posts: 606 Location: Central Ohio Joined: January 18, 2005	You say, "Audiogon WAS the best place to buy and sell audio gear." ....So right now today, where is the New best place to find the most (shear volume and numbers) of manufacturer brands, and variety of used gear(all things audio), with the largest audience of buying and selling enthusiasts and audiophiles?

RE: Thank you for a very thoughtful and reasoned response, posted on June 5, 2012 at 07:52:13

kayelefkay
Audiophile

Posts: 4
Joined: June 10, 2009

For what its worth, the exact same advertisement posted by the seller who has defrauded me has just appeared under a different username, also with multiple positive feedback stretching back to 2008 with the last transaction being last month. Same photos. Same description. This is ridiculous. Its like there's a new hijacked account every other day. Either that or they must've been hacked. One will never know.

General Asylum

Audiogon Phishing

50.46.214.149