what is your most shocking wikileakesque revelations about the audio industry in the last 3 years?

RE: what is your most shocking wikileakesque revelations about the audio industry in the last 3 years?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 03:32:41
FCS Audiophile Posts: 141 Location: Northwest Arkansas Joined: November 3, 2001	There have been so many "shocking revelations" about heretofore "reputable" companies. However, the JPS Labs scandal a few years ago was a wake-up call to me. Needless to say, I have never spent a single dollar on these firms, once I learn about their unethical business practices. Yet, I am surprised at how many are still in business having survived their respective scandals.

RE: what is your most shocking wikileakesque revelations about the audio industry in the last 3 years?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 04:45:55
ocd Audiophile Posts: 279 Joined: July 23, 2001	how about the rebadged lexicon blue ray/universal player really an oppo 83?

Mine, posted on December 10, 2010 at 05:22:59
JMCIII Reviewer Posts: 1519 Location: Vermont Joined: April 3, 2000	The Jonathon Valin / Nordost scandel. That one hit too close to home. Made all reviewers catch undeserved flack..... But the Lexicon "problem" rates right up there. Just my (adjusted for inflation) $2 John Crossett ___ It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.

Reviewers and others make all sorts of claims for expensive wires--Oh shoot! Everyone knows that already! , posted on December 10, 2010 at 06:14:20
Pat D Audiophile Posts: 12506 Location: Fredericton NB Joined: June 20, 2000	Sort of like knowing the Panama Canal has strategic importance. ----- "A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser

FM Tuner Scandal, posted on December 10, 2010 at 07:03:52

AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
Since: February 2, 2002

Not within the past 3 years but in 2002 I discovered that the thousand dollar Magnum Dynalab DT5 digital tuner was actually a rebranded Parasound Halo T3 that retailed for $599 USD. I owned the Parasound and posted a review here in the Asylum.

The front panel was slightly rearranged on the Magnum DT5 but looking at the back panel, every connector was the same and had the same layout location as the Parasound Halo T3.

Both have been discontinued.

That would have been my choice., posted on December 10, 2010 at 08:08:08
Mr. Dick Hertz	One reviewer's apparent collusion in the matter didn't look good either. How's Lexicon doing these days anyway?

I certainly make Wild claims about My ICs and Speaker Cable., posted on December 10, 2010 at 08:26:29
oldmkvi Audiophile Posts: 10581 Joined: April 12, 2002	They sound Way better than what I had previously.

That's simple - but I wouldn't say it's within 3 years. Rather ongoing., posted on December 10, 2010 at 08:39:54
carcass93 Audiophile Posts: 7181 Location: NJ Joined: September 20, 2006	Inordinate number of cheap deaf morons, that for some bizarre reason consider audio their "hobby", and pollute web forums with their clueless "everything sounds the same" ravings and irrational hatred towards audiophiles.

Not at all recent, but Mark Levinson, posted on December 10, 2010 at 08:45:28

mwhitmore
Audiophile

Posts: 1720
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 17, 2008

Back in the 70's, Mark Levinson invented the first decent-sounding solid-state amps and preamps. No businssman, he had financial difficulties expanding to meet demand. So he brought in an investor/manager to help him out (named Sandy Berlin, IIRC). Who proceeded to take the company away from Levinson, forbade him to use his own name and tried to bankrupt him. After that, I would never consider buying a Mark Levinson Audio product, no matter how good it sounded.

RE: what is your most shocking wikileakesque revelations about the audio industry in the last 3 years?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 08:52:16

JerryS
Reviewer

Posts: 2026
Joined: February 24, 2001

The Tascam CDRW750 Pro and Denon CDR632 are the same machine except for a slightly different set of front panel buttons. The interiors are identical. (Not that most of us would care about these niche products.)

The Onkyo T-9 and Sansui TU-717 are outstanding tuners and easily beat a couple of revered McIntoshes in sound quality.

The price of an audio cable can have no relation to its sound quality.

CD playback done right sounds very satisfying and can be better overall than some LP gear.

Hi-rez digital (24/192 or greater) will eventually replace LPs.

There's a little more to the story than that......, posted on December 10, 2010 at 08:55:16

Bob Rex
Audiophile

Posts: 632
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
Joined: July 28, 2000

First, Sandy Berlin was one of the principals in Marantz, and from what I recall, ML approached him. Mark had prety much driven the company into the ground, so Sandy did what he had to to keep the company afloat.

That first preamp - the JC1 was designed by John Curl, I forget who did the early amps (Tom Colangelo comes to mind, but I think that was later with Cello).

Keep in mind, that Levinson went on to create (and destroy) 2 other companies - Cello, and Red Rose. He did make a few decent recordings though!

RE: Not at all recent, but Mark Levinson, posted on December 10, 2010 at 09:00:06
JerryS Reviewer Posts: 2026 Joined: February 24, 2001	I think Sandy sold to Madrigal, which sold to Harman. Not sure if Sandy is currently involved or not. Regardless, I like my No. 326S preamp (with phono) and would love to hear a pair of 531H amps in my system. Happy listening. Regards, JerryS

Speaking of Levinson, posted on December 10, 2010 at 09:13:00
mbnx01 Audiophile Posts: 7956 Location: Eagle, Idaho Joined: October 22, 2004	Didn't he import a $300 Chinese amp and call it the 'Red Rose' and put an MSRP of three grand on it? 'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

here's a link, posted on December 10, 2010 at 09:48:26

mbnx01
Audiophile

Posts: 7956
Location: Eagle, Idaho
Joined: October 22, 2004

Interesting story.

Thru the magic of importation a two hundred dollar amp becomes a two thousand dollar amp.

'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain

"CD playback done right sounds very satisfying and can be better overall than some LP gear" ..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 09:51:36

reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13131
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
Since: January 19, 2010

Or, a top-flight CD player can sound better than a crappy turntable.

;-)

Dean.

reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

It would be that ..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 10:04:46

reelsmith.
Audiophile

Posts: 13131
Location: CT
Joined: June 7, 2005
Contributor
Since: January 19, 2010

Denon discontinued this sub $1,000 turntable ...

...and painted it shiny black and gold toned a few parts and now sells it for $2500.

Maybe I'm missing something ...but from the literature there is no discernible performance upgrade.

Dean.

Edit: A little more research shows that the new table comes with a $500 cartridge ...which is really a dressed up $230 DL-103

reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

And conversely..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 10:08:51
Presto Audiophile Posts: 5957 Location: Canada Joined: November 10, 2004	And conversely the guys who are certain that lunar cycles and the color of their socks make "far from subtle changes that their wife can hear in the next room". Both camps are extremists. You seem to suggest that only one side are the extremists - while audiophile voodoo practitioners are "normal". That's a stretch even for around here. Cheers, Presto

RE: Not at all recent, but Mark Levinson, posted on December 10, 2010 at 10:15:18

John Atkinson
Reviewer

Posts: 4045
Location: New York
Joined: November 24, 2003

>I think Sandy sold to Madrigal, which sold to Harman. Not sure if Sandy is
>currently involved or not.

Sandy passed away in March 2008, see linked obit below.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sandy-berlin

RE: There's a little more to the story than that......, posted on December 10, 2010 at 10:26:29

John Atkinson
Reviewer

Posts: 4045
Location: New York
Joined: November 24, 2003

>First, Sandy Berlin was one of the principals in Marantz...

Not as far as I am aware. See the information in the obit linked below.

>from what I recall, ML approached him. Mark had prety much driven the
>company into the ground, so Sandy did what he had to to keep the company
>afloat.

That was my understanding. Once Mark Levinson had taken Madrigal's money,
while he may not have agreed with what Sandy did with the company, it was
as case of "he who pays the piper calls the tune." Sandy did make enemies
readily, however, and to this day, Mark feels that he was very badly treated.

John Atkinson
Technical Editor, Stereophile

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sandy-berlin

Jerry, What CD Playback Done Right?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 10:30:12
"Red" Audiophile Posts: 606 Location: Central Ohio Joined: January 18, 2005	Jerry, Always on the lookout for a great player. What cd players done right can better some lp gear?

RE: Jerry, What CD Playback Done Right?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 10:36:18

JerryS
Reviewer

Posts: 2026
Joined: February 24, 2001

Please see below.

Happy listening.

Regards,
JerryS

Prism Orpheus Digital Interface

"lunar cycles and the color of their socks" - never seen anyone claiming that., posted on December 10, 2010 at 10:40:11

carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006

However, here's what made positive impact in MY system, to MY ears:

- Oyaide electrical outlets
- Oyaide electrical outlet cover
- Stillpoints and Rollerblocks isolation footers
- power cords, interconnects, speaker cables
- power conditioner
- Power Wraps on power cords and interconnects

Would you equal any of the above to the color of my socks?

If we get a little more serious - where do you draw the line between worthwhile tweaks and "voodoo"? How do you know it's "voodoo" if you've never tried it? Is not understanding how it works enough to declare it "voodoo"?

probably my all-too-slow realization, posted on December 10, 2010 at 11:02:39
farfetched Audiophile Posts: 957 Location: Cleveland! Joined: October 13, 2010	That JA's foisting of Jonathan Scull on his readership wasn't some ultra-dry but wicked British practical joke. / optimally proportioned triangles are our friends

RE: It would be that ..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 11:04:19
middleground	Hmm, seems you don't subscribe to subjective audio where the least little difference is touted as delivering huge sonic gains... P.S. But why gold accents?

RE: "lunar cycles and the color of their socks" - never seen anyone claiming that., posted on December 10, 2010 at 11:10:07
middleground	I don't think that you have paid much attention over the years to all the nutty stuff posted by 'philes.

(Shhhh!!!), posted on December 10, 2010 at 11:55:50
JimK	I have some magic rocks I'd like to sell.

RE: And conversely..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:01:45

kerr
Audiophile

Posts: 4376
Location: Central Indiana
Joined: November 10, 2003

>Both camps are extremists.<

Probably. The main difference is that, despite how ridiculous some tweaks and things may seem to me, I'm really in no position to dispute that someone else can hear them. But I am in a position to dispute the notion that "everything sounds the same" because I have experiences that prove it to be false. In other words, I "believe" one set of folks are extremist lunatics, and I "know" the other set is.

> lunar cycles and the color of their socks<

No socks make my system more transparent. White socks give the sound a bleached quality while black socks provide a quieter, blacker noise floor. The list is endless. I haven't tried the lunar cycles tweak yet, so thanks for the "heads up" (arggghhh - the puns are getting dumber by the word - lol).

Wilson Audio speakers..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:03:28
mkuller Audiophile Posts: 38130 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: April 22, 2003	...are priced very high and must include a large profit margin.

"Hi-rez digital (24/192 or greater) will eventually replace LPs", posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:10:27
Chris O	No, no it won't. However, you will not be able to buy a "CD" in 5 years except on the used market.

RE: what is your most shocking wikileakesque revelations about the audio industry in the last 3 years?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:14:55
Quint Dealer Posts: 3657 Joined: June 21, 2003	The Valin/Nordost revelation. That left a really sour taste in my mouth. I know it’s an extreme response, but I stopped reading the rags after that. Another one was finding out the profit margin on Transparent cables. This is a public service announcement . . . WITH GUITARS!!!

Marantz 8260 (really anything with that name), posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:16:48
l1945@sbcglobal.net Audiophile Posts: 1672 Location: midwest Joined: July 5, 2007	N/T Gary

That I can make a $30 CD player sound better than anything else out there, posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:23:27
morgan1 Audiophile Posts: 1127 Joined: October 29, 2010	A little internal tweaking and it'll blow the doors off the overly heavy and dead sounding expensive units.

That there isn't a functioning audio industry anymore., posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:29:20

Chris O

More like a cottage industry. Niche, or almost non-existent, especially when you take out "Tee-Vee Sound" products and anything made in China.

Alas, the Audio Industry is going the way of personal aircraft and cigar humidors. Bottom line: chicks don't dig it and most people do not play recorded music unless it is on IPod headphones, car, computer or boom box.

We are like crazy uncle Willie, out in the back shed playing with his 40' antenna for his ham as the kids are Skype-ing to a friend in Romania.

RE: "lunar cycles and the color of their socks" - never seen anyone claiming that., posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:31:13
Tony Lauck Audiophile Posts: 13629 Location: Vermont Joined: November 12, 2007	Hate to say it, but women's moods are affected by lunar cycles. As to the color of socks, there might be a question of which is the cause and which is the effect. :-) Tony Lauck "Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

RE: Wilson Audio speakers..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:33:19
Tony Lauck Audiophile Posts: 13629 Location: Vermont Joined: November 12, 2007	Large gross margin, perhaps. Not the same thing as profit margin. For specialty products fixed costs must be amortized over a small number of units. Tony Lauck "Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar

That Internal Tweek, posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:35:01

Chris O

One tab fixes everything.

C'mon now, posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:49:05

unclestu
Dealer

Posts: 5851
Joined: April 13, 2010

The high end industry was never very large. The old Mark Levinson company was probably the largest with 80 employees, before they downsized to about half that number. Conrad Johnson has about 21 or so employees and that number includes both Conrad and Johnson.

Many, if not most companies, these days subcontract out cabinet work and such, particularly speaker companies.

If you believed the high end industry was ever huge, you were sadly mislead. Even Saul Marantz started off building his components in his basement.

STu

History will teach us something, posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:56:44

JerryS
Reviewer

Posts: 2026
Joined: February 24, 2001

In the early 1980s when CDs hit the market, if they truly offered "perfect sound forever", there never would have been a resurgence in LP, although a niche market will exist for a long time due to a) inertia (installed base), and b) novelty (LPs are fun). Just remember how fast LPs disappeared from the "record" stores around that time!

Even now, the reviews of the new file-based digital gear are overwhelmingly positive. This is in contrast to many of the reviews of early CD players. Done right, hi-rez - again 24/192 or greater - is largely competitive with analog, IMO/IME.

I think you are right about CDs. It is my feeling that used CD players are already getting harder to sell, meaning overall demand is falling. I am not a dealer, so I don't have that perspective on the market. Netflix/cable/satellite on-demand is surely hurting the sales of DVD/Blu-ray players. Blockbuster is emerging from bankrupcy for like the 5th time now. Manufacturers of CDs and CD players know the truth, of course. We don't even need to rehash how the marketplace has embraced, ugh, MP3s.

I've a confession to make., posted on December 10, 2010 at 13:07:19

carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 7181
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006

What I left out of that list of tweaks that work, is Single Malt scotch.

However, to my dismay and shame, I was NEVER able to hear an audible difference between, for instance, Aberlour 16, Clynelish 14, and Deanston 12. The only difference I WAS able to hear is of quantitative nature, and inverse at that - i.e. the more of the tweak is applied, the more everything sounds the same.

Right to the point where an album by certain band sounds exactly the same as different album by different band!

I understand it was controversial, posted on December 10, 2010 at 13:14:21
mwhitmore Audiophile Posts: 1720 Location: San Francisco Joined: September 17, 2008	TAS had a pretty even-handed article (don't have the date handy), and I drew my conclusions. Others might conclude differently. As far as Cello and Red Rose, I understand the products were well regarded. But, as I said, he was no businessman. As John Atkinson says, he who pays the piper shall call the tune.

VPI Magic Bricks, , posted on December 10, 2010 at 13:18:30
mwhitmore Audiophile Posts: 1720 Location: San Francisco Joined: September 17, 2008	perchance?

Don't have to try it to know..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 13:23:05
Sebrof Audiophile Posts: 634 Location: AusTX Joined: July 12, 2002	There are many things that I am absolutely certain will not make an audible change to my system, I don't need to try them all. None are on your list, but I've read about many of them on these forums. Like another poster said - There are many at both extremes.

And amp faceplates color, posted on December 10, 2010 at 13:23:42

mwhitmore
Audiophile

Posts: 1720
Location: San Francisco
Joined: September 17, 2008

I have a post under General Asylum 'Excessive?' titled 'Does the color of a component affect the sound?'

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/57/579159.

Medeyev uses his Amps, posted on December 10, 2010 at 13:24:01

Des
Audiophile

Posts: 2110
Location: Great Barrier Reef
Joined: August 3, 2000
Contributor
Since: August 2, 2000

Risen again?

Des

http://www.danielhertz.com/

RE: Medeyev..who?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 13:40:05
mwhitmore Audiophile Posts: 1720 Location: San Francisco Joined: September 17, 2008	Sorry to be dense, but I don't know this name, got little from Google and no reference I could see from your link. Can you enlighten me?

He probably meant Russian president Medvedev., posted on December 10, 2010 at 13:47:39
carcass93 Audiophile Posts: 7181 Location: NJ Joined: September 20, 2006	The one, who besides being a nobody and a powerless puppet in hands of criminals, turns out to also be a wannabe audiophile.

RE: "...album by certain band sounds....the same as different album by different band!", posted on December 10, 2010 at 14:00:01
JimK	Oh, man! Does that sound familiar (no pun intended)!

Or, Parasound could have had MD make its tuner for it..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 14:20:00

John Marks
Manufacturer

Posts: 7797
Location: Peoples' Democratic Republic of R.I.
Joined: April 23, 2000

Unless one is privy to internal documents, I think all that one can say is, that the two tuners look very similar.

It is not necessarily the case that the MD is a rebranded Parasound.

It is more likely, IMHO, that Parasound placed a big order with MD and got a discount, and was willing to live on a thinner margin while making it up in volume.

In either case, if the tuners are the same, the cheaper one is the better buy.

I have had a few bottles of $25 Atlas Peak Cabernet that come with a plain-ish label and which are supposedly overproduction from a vineyard that charges $85 a bottle. I don't think in that case it is fair to say that the $85 Cab is rebranded $25 Cab!

JM

Magic socks. The blue ones sound the best (nt), posted on December 10, 2010 at 14:30:15
Presto Audiophile Posts: 5957 Location: Canada Joined: November 10, 2004	nt

It's an easy differentiation, posted on December 10, 2010 at 14:57:40

Presto
Audiophile

Posts: 5957
Location: Canada
Joined: November 10, 2004

Your list - tweaks of importance in the "YMMV" category. Even if Oyaide plugs just have better build quality and contact mating, they could be offered as a "cost-no-object" device. I've seen the plugs. The additional build quality is a given - without even listen to them in the system. It's accepted gold connectors are better due to reduced oxidation. Why then are not improved contacts in electrical devices not also of value? Again. YMMV.

On one extreme end, we get "measures the same - sounds the same" aka "the range of measurements we have now are sufficient to account for any and all sonic perceptions" which is complete objectivist-extremist bunk. We don't know how to measure things to account for all sonic perceptions. If we did, we could create the perfect audio system (and recording methods) that would transport every listener of every song to the original event every time.

On the other end, we get the parlor tricks. The freezer tricks, faceplate screw slot alignment, color on carpet (different coloring agents in the carpet affects dielectric strength you see), Belt tricks, and small little dollhouse-sized teacup thingies that magically re-arrange all of the mangled sonic nuances of airborne sound. You know. Subjectivist voodoo religion.

A guy could put a pebble from the alleyway out back on his coffee table and claim it to impart the "standard array" of common audiophile improvements that are "far from subtle that his wife could hear in the next room" and then market it in three colors:

red - agressive sound. $1000
blue - mellow sound $1500
white - virgin-pee / white-as-snow pure sound $5000

Some here would own all three, to match their mood that day or just to make sure their psychological bias mechanisms (imaginations) are still fully functional. (They'll hear the agressive red ones, the mellow blue ones, and the pure white ones and know that they have THE GIFT. ha ha ha). That's all I am saying here. Nobody said the devices / products you were referring to were DEFINITIVELY "voodoo". The plugs are different than cheap stock plugs. The isolators and couplers DO make differences to mechanical aspects and vibration. Microphonics CAN affect electronics, especially - but not limited to - tubes. Some guys think living too close to a freeway causes microphonics. I say it causes noisey car sounds more than anything.

When voodoo tweaks are not audible, they are attibuted to being "very very small veils being lifted" and the reason that they can't be heard by SOME is because of tinear-itis or an insufficiently resolving system.

In other words, bullshit.

So if you have yet to align the screw slots in your faceplate receptacles, wear only blue socks in your listening room, or have not yet purchased my "Quantum Pebbles" based on psycho-color technology, then you're not a tweako subjectivist yet. But you might be a bit neurotic if you think everyone here THINKS you are a tweako subjectivist. It's just that you tend to call ANYONE who questions ANY tweak for ANY reason a staunch objectivist when in fact most guys here are more middle ground "YMMV" types who avoid boxing themselves into the dogma of either extreme for any substantial period of time.

I know I'm not in either camp and know that those who want to stick me in one camp or another tend to be "black and white" thinkers who perhaps believe that everything in life can be boxed into one of two extremes.

I'm more of a "shades of grey" guy myself. Being a DIY speaker designer I have to do a lot of measurements. The stuff I do you can't do "by ear". I tend to listen to music by ear though. I've measured music ten different ways but the results don't ever sound any good. They LOOK fantastic on paper there, but only make a sound when I crumple them into a ball.

Cheers,
Presto

RE: Wilson Audio speakers..., posted on December 10, 2010 at 15:38:15

Mercman
Audiophile

Posts: 6581
Location: So. CA
Joined: October 20, 2002

Wilson speakers have the usual 40% margin for the dealer. If you have an opportunity to tour the factory, you will be amazed at the quality that this company puts into its speakers. Also, they are totally made in the USA with livable wages and benefits for their employees.

Compare Wilson speakers to the competition in terms of sound, quality of construction, and customer service, then reach an opinion.

Why don't you say what you really feel?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 16:08:50
mwhitmore Audiophile Posts: 1720 Location: San Francisco Joined: September 17, 2008	LOL, didn't make the connection.

RE: what is your most shocking wikileakesque revelations about the audio industry in the last 3 years?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 16:35:51
panhead Audiophile Posts: 920 Location: chicago Joined: January 20, 2007	What is the profit margin on Transparent Cables? And where did you find that information? Thanks!!!!

RE: "Hi-rez digital (24/192 or greater) will eventually replace LPs", posted on December 10, 2010 at 16:54:33
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	I've yet to hear 24/192 "done right"...... No matter how hard one tries, after roughly 15 minutes of listening, my ears always feel as if they've been subjected to dentist's drills............

The Oppo is good. Also the flipping of the "audio/music ratio,", posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:11:35

Enophile
Bored Member

Posts: 25269
Location: Northern Californistan
Joined: October 15, 2005
Contributor
Since: August 5, 2012

Back in the day, reviewers and audiophiles used to talk about software investment compared to hardware expenditures and bandy about just how BIG this ratio should be.

Now, it is an inverted formula, with the majority of auiophiles having a higher expense invested in hardware than software.

More Wikileak info....

The average audiophile plays a 200gm audiophile re-issue an average of 1.5 times if he sometomes has other auiophiles over, and only plays side one once if he tends to be a solitary audio sort. The safest groove on an LP is anywhere after track 2 on side 2 of an audiophile LP.

More data:

The cartridge stylus tip of a high end cartridge lasts longer than the suspension of the cartridge - which suffers and degrades from disuse. "Hardening of the suspension" due to age and excessivley sedentary state occurs before stylus wear for the average audiophile.

Even more:

"Break in" of a piece of gear is an ever ongoing process, and continues in the life of a product until break-down begins to occur. There are people who claim to hear interconnect break in or speaker cable break in, but apparently none who can readily identify when the process of break down occurs. (You'd think manufacturers would be talking about cable expiration dates by now, eh?)

Lastly: The is no lasting groove deformity after the passing of a stylus and a music lover can play a record as many times in a day as he desires.

how about Magico?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:19:43
docw Audiophile Posts: 8115 Location: So. California Joined: July 23, 2004 Contributor Since: November 29, 2004	and other vastly expensive speakers.

Yeah, that was a GREAT one!, posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:23:03
Enophile Bored Member Posts: 25269 Location: Northern Californistan Joined: October 15, 2005 Contributor Since: August 5, 2012	I wonder how they are selling?

RE: I certainly make Wild claims about My ICs and Speaker Cable., posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:25:47
Pat D Audiophile Posts: 12506 Location: Fredericton NB Joined: June 20, 2000	Do you have any audibility data? Changing cables also plows through any corrosion in the connections. Any audible change might have nothing to do with the new interconnects and speaker wires. ----- "A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser

"P.S. But why gold accents?", posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:27:45
R Browne Audiophile Posts: 1710 Location: So. Cal. Joined: January 14, 2002	To go with the gold knobs on my amp and pre-amp. It's called synergy!

I Need More than Three Years................, posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:39:10

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

Try 15 or 20 years............

If you're familiar with my posts, some of these comments wouldn't be shocking.........

1. The intermingling of asynchronous sample rate formats in both digitized recording and playback. 24/192 mastered CDs and 24/192 upsampled CD playback. IMO, this has introduced a new and indefinite generation of both awful-sounding recordings and awful-sounding playback (in spite of hype to the contrary), and is likely the root cause of the decline of the CD amongst consumers and the sonics in recent recordings. IMO this has been the single biggest setback to the advancement of high-fidelity sound reproduction.

2. The ghastly widespread use of Antares Auto Tune (and other pitch correction applications) in which performers using it are touted as “exceptional talents”. (I wouldn't have a problem at all with Auto Tune whenever its use were to be disclosed.) And the proliferation of other "trickery" to dupe the audiences.

3. The practice of claiming electronics and cables “sounding the same” is an excuse to design products and recordings that the designers want to deem as more than adequate, yet underachieve to end user ears. The designers would rather question the consumers than improve the products. Over time, this has driven a wedge between the audio design community and the high-end audio community. (As an engineer personally, I think the audio engineering community has become both technically corrupt and technically inept.)

4. The lack of realization in both the music and audio industries that digitized audio alters the perception of recorded music, and has hindered the natural enjoyment of music. The masses have not realized the perceptive hindrance, yet have been losing interest in music aside from what is socially relevant. And the subsequent loss of appreciation of both musical artistry and high-fidelity sound reproduction.

5. The best in audio is not the high-priced glitter touted in the magazines, but the reasonably-priced products designed by the local builders.

6. The decline in standards in music have been caused mainly by a network media that spotlights and glorifies certain music genres (modern pop, hip-hop, prefab) while obscuring and ridiculing others (classical, traditional jazz). Most "Awards" programs have become nothing more than a showcase of the network media glorifying its own prefabricated "stars".

7. Unless RFI is ever addressed in digitized audio, high-resolution formats will never become popular, and will never overtake LP and Redbook CD as the preferred formats for most audiophiles, and MP3 for most consumers.

8. The best-sounding digital audio sources by and large were manufactured in the early and mid 1990s. Modify the output of these products with a decent analog stage, and you'll be amazed.

9. The decline in high-fidelity sound reproduction and the decline in music over the past 20 years have been mutually intertwined.

10. The proliferation of ghastly expensive audio gear is mainly driven by the frustration and desperation audiophiles have had in attaining satisfactory performance, yet rarely being delivered such performance.

Agreed........, posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:48:00
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	I think half the problem with audio industry is that the designers don't know what to listen for anymore.

RE: Jerry, What CD Playback Done Right?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:53:26

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

A CD player will beat vinyl only if the vinyl rig is either cheesy or improperly set-up. (Unfortunately, I think most vinyl rigs are not set up properly.)

The other problem is there are so few CD sources that do get it right. Get a used Philips CDC-935 or Marantz CC-45 CD changer on eBay, have a good designer re-build the output stage, and you'll have a source that will IMO beat 99 percent of what's out there. (But still, it won't outperform a good vinyl rig.)

RE: Jerry, What CD Playback Done Right?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 17:55:03
Todd Krieger Audiophile Posts: 37333 Location: SW United States Joined: November 2, 2000	If one wants to spend money on the best digital audio has to offer, Prism is one of few companies that consistently deliver.

I'll go futher and say ergonomically and quality wise digital is now way ahead, posted on December 10, 2010 at 18:51:04

John C. - Aussie
Audiophile

Posts: 5146
Location: Northern Tasmania
Joined: November 9, 1999

Mind you, I hated digital for over a decade, and no wonder when you look back to the crude players. They knew how to record it well but not how to reproduce fine analog from that recording. It has taken decades to come to terms with good filtering --> fine reproduction.

At the risk of sounding smug, I'm hearing the best sounding (classical) music I ever have both via speakers & via headphones (even better). And that is now as good using FLAC burned discs on hard drive as I have heard on a modded Esoteric player. Sweet, articulate, ...... really great sound for great music. And hard drive via Sooloos is close to the ultimate ergonomically. No more jumping up and down until you find the right music for the current mood. (The search engine is not perfect for classical music & that explains the "close").

So my great conversion has been away from vinyl to digital. That said it has been a long and rather torturous path but great to have arrived.

John

What can be more subjective than music? It reflects our personal tastes and preferences.

Very Highly unlikely....., posted on December 10, 2010 at 20:02:46

AbeCollins
Audiophile

Posts: 46280
Location: USA
Joined: June 22, 2001
Contributor
Since: February 2, 2002

"Unless one is privy to internal documents, I think all that one can say is, that the two tuners look very similar."

Ah no. Did you look closely at the photos? EVERY connector on the back panels of each brand were IDENTICAL and were laid out exactly in the same position. Each tuner also had the same exact bracket on the left side to support the AM loop antenna. Both tuners operated exactly the same with the memory presets and other controls. The main front panel display was also identical. No, these two tuners shared the same electronics inside.

"It is more likely, IMHO, that Parasound placed a big order with MD and got a discount, and was willing to live on a thinner margin while making it up in volume."

I doubt it. If Parasound didn't make this tuner for Magnum, it is more likely that each manufacturer OEM'd them from some outfit in China. Magnum had zero experience with this type of "digital" tuner with full function remote control and memory presets. And the DT5 looks nothing like any other Magnum tuner of that era. Many Parasound products were made in Taiwan while Magnum is made in Canada. So it is highly unlikely that Magnum OEM'd their tuners to Parasound. It is much more likely to be the other way around.

RE: what is your most shocking wikileakesque revelations about the audio industry in the last 3 years?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 20:15:17
Bill the K Audiophile Posts: 8383 Joined: June 3, 2006	Hiding where the speakers are made,China or elsewhere.

No, no, no, Abe!, posted on December 10, 2010 at 21:03:06
Charles Hansen Manufacturer Posts: 6984 Joined: August 1, 2001	The Magnum Dynalab has gold feet! Don't you know anything?

Todd, our experiences seem to point diametrically opposite, posted on December 10, 2010 at 21:06:11

John C. - Aussie
Audiophile

Posts: 5146
Location: Northern Tasmania
Joined: November 9, 1999

At least our conclusions do. Not trying to create an argument as each of us can only come to conclusions based on our experiences.

In my case I've finally achieved first class reproduction from digital, something which took a lot of time and money. The first Eureka moment was when David Schulte of The Upgrade Company modded the Esoteric UX-1 LE and I suspect his mod aimed at reducing the RF you refer to. Anyway his mod was so good I was able to sell the G-Os Esoteric masterclock as after his mod it made absolutely no audio improvement (and it did before the mod). Please note I had a good experience with DS but I have seen posts where this was not always the case.

The next Eureka moment was the purchase of Sennheiser HD800 headphones, items I'm generally not comfortable about, but the reproduction to the Sennies via the Nugent modded Benchmark is so good I'll wear them. Note that at this stage the digital feed was ex the modded Esoteric - I have posted about this before,

The final Eureka has been the ripping of over 6000 CDs (a ghastly job BTW) into a two twin 2 TB HDDS in a Meridian Sooloos sytem. The reproduction via the Sennies is as great (in terms of clarity, lack of distortion, soundstaging, reproduction of nuances and general musicality) as via the Esoteric.

So my experience is that progress has been made with digital reproduction and obviously differs from yours. We are most likely both correct in the context of our experiences, although this must make for confusing reading by others!!

John

What can be more subjective than music? It reflects our personal tastes and preferences.

Why don't you design us something!, posted on December 10, 2010 at 21:13:12
Don Till	Or don't you know what to listen for anymore either.

RE: Jerry, What CD Playback Done Right?, posted on December 10, 2010 at 21:24:27
ahendler Audiophile Posts: 5151 Location: San Antonio, Texas Joined: January 24, 2003	I love LPs' but get a great deal of enjoyment from my Sony 5400es Also my $90 sony s370 blue ray player is very nice for its very low sale price Alan

Comments about your point # 4, posted on December 10, 2010 at 21:29:42

Mike K
Audiophile

Posts: 13973
Location: 97701
Joined: September 23, 1999

You wrote:

"4. The lack of realization in both the music and audio industries that digitized audio alters the perception of recorded music, and has hindered the natural enjoyment of music. The masses have not realized the perceptive hindrance, yet have been losing interest in music aside from what is socially relevant. And the subsequent loss of appreciation of both musical artistry and high-fidelity sound reproduction."

How does digitized audio alter the perception of recorded music?
If we grant that 30 ips master tape of a given recording is the most
realistic sounding format, then I personally find digital (SACD followed
by redbook) to sound superior to vinyl due to the myriad of problems
inherent in vinyl (rice krispies, wow/flutter, mistracking, etc., etc.).
And if you wish to maintain that digital audio alters our perception of
music, then what about vinyl and tape? Don't they alter our perception
of music in their own way also? No recording I've ever heard sounds
like a live performance (and in some cases I'm thankful for that), but
so what? We all know that.

And how has digital audio "...hindered the natural enjoyment of music"?
As above, we all know that no recording approaches the realism of a live
performance, so why is digital more at fault for "hindering our natural
enjoyment of music" than other formats? All formats have problems,
strengths, and limitations. Why is digital worse than vinyl in this
regard? And what is "natural enjoyment" anyway? If by "natural
enjoyment" you mean pleasure, I can assure you that I get lots of
pleasure from my digitized music.

"The masses have not realized the perceptive hindrance ...". The masses
are asses and do not care about perceptive hindrance. They care only
about the pop dreck that will fit on their ipods or play on their car
radio. Screw the masses. Trying to get the masses to appreciate real
music again will require a re-education effort starting in kindergarden,
and that isn't going to happen.

The masses have been "...losing interest in music aside from what is socially relevant ... ". When have the masses EVER been interested in
any music other than what's "socially relevant". 20 years ago? 40? 60?
100? 200? 500? I think the masses have NEVER cared about anything
but "socially relevant" (to them) music. So the fact that their
music is digital is irrelevant. The masses listened to pop dreck on
LPs and 78s, why can't they listen to it on CD or MP3?

" ...subsequent loss of appreciation of both musical artistry and high-fidelity sound reproduction." Do you really think the average person
listening to the latest pop dreck on his ipod or car radio has now, or
indeed EVER had, ANY appreciation of musical artistry or quality sound
reproduction? If you do, I think you are way overestimating the
musicial erudition of the average citizen. But even if you are correct,
how does digitization of music have anything to do with the perceived
(by you) loss of appreciation of artistry and reproduction?

In short, you are making out digital music to be somehow inherently evil,
and you've not one shred of evidence for your contention. I grant that
you may prefer vinyl to digital, and that's fine. I prefer digital.
Each of us can make a case for our pov, but that certainly does not make
one of us right and the other wrong. Lack of musical sophistication
in the population at large is no more due to digital music formats than
it is to vinyl or tape formats; it's due to the general educational level
(or lack thereof) of the populace in general.

MK

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

Post in Haste here tis....., posted on December 10, 2010 at 21:31:07

Des
Audiophile

Posts: 2110
Location: Great Barrier Reef
Joined: August 3, 2000
Contributor
Since: August 2, 2000

Sorry about that--The Amps in the bottom para'

Des

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/russian-president-has-a-150000-

Talking of Spelling boo boos, posted on December 10, 2010 at 21:38:50
Des Audiophile Posts: 2110 Location: Great Barrier Reef Joined: August 3, 2000 Contributor Since: August 2, 2000	In the "About Mark /etc" You will see he makes "god" Watches Are they in homage ? Ha! Des

The price of an audio cable can have no relation to its sound quality., posted on December 10, 2010 at 21:49:06
Charles Hansen Manufacturer Posts: 6984 Joined: August 1, 2001	Say it isn't so! You mean a couple of feet of speaker wire aren't really worth more than a pair of my finest amplifiers?

The number of speaker *not* made in China.., posted on December 10, 2010 at 22:03:13

Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001

...depends on what you consider to be a real company. Probably less than 2% of all speakers, these days.

All of the B&W's except for the 800 series are made in China.

I recently saw an article on Thiel. The 3.7 has the drivers, the front baffle, the top dome, and if I recall correctly the crossovers all made in China. The only part made in Kentucky was the wooden back.

There are some small companies like Green Mountain that build in the US, but in general you have to spend at least $10,000 to get speakers made in the US or Europe. The biggest exception is probably France, where Focal, Cabasse, and Triangle still build there. There are still a few holdouts in the UK, like ATC, Harbeth, and so forth.

RE: The price of an audio cable can have no relation to its sound quality., posted on December 10, 2010 at 22:28:56
JerryS Reviewer Posts: 2026 Joined: February 24, 2001	Naw. That would take eight, maybe ten feet minimum! Seriously, I haven't heard an Ayre since I brought my V5 to you in 2003 for an update. Maybe it is time to see what has been growing here in CO.

Not as Opposite as You Think..........., posted on December 10, 2010 at 22:48:18

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

"In my case I've finally achieved first class reproduction from digital, something which took a lot of time and money."

Stress the word "finally"...... There doesn't seem to be a lot of people who have reached that point, and many have simply given up or just lived with something they're not totally satisfied with.

I agree about the time, but not the money. My two reference rigs, one might cost over ten grand retail (Prism DA-2 DAC), but the other costs around $500 (Don Allen mod Philips CDC-935 or Marantz CC-45).

"The first Eureka moment was when David Schulte of The Upgrade Company modded the Esoteric UX-1 LE and I suspect his mod aimed at reducing the RF you refer to."

Anybody who actually addresses RFI in a digital audio design ought be moved to the head of the line. I don't recall such an anecdote before.

The Esoteric designs are not as recent as you think. I remember auditioning the products around the Year 2000..... I even agree that it's a top performing digital source.

"The next Eureka moment was the purchase of Sennheiser HD800 headphones, items I'm generally not comfortable about, but the reproduction to the Sennies via the Nugent modded Benchmark is so good I'll wear them. Note that at this stage the digital feed was ex the modded Esoteric - I have posted about this before,"

AFAIK, the Nugent mod bypasses the ASRC on the Benchmark.........

"The final Eureka has been the ripping of over 6000 CDs (a ghastly job BTW) into a two twin 2 TB HDDS in a Meridian Sooloos sytem."

Please, back up those drives!!!!

"The reproduction via the Sennies is as great (in terms of clarity, lack of distortion, soundstaging, reproduction of nuances and general musicality) as via the Esoteric."

Did you actually sample the audio before ripping all those CDs? (The only person who I know who committed to ripping anywhere close to this many CDs onto a hard drive initially raved about the system like it was the greatest thing ever, then six months later regretted it.) This is why I've never took such a plunge, and unlikely I ever will.

The device is too expensive and personalized to audition. One would only be fortunate if he knew someone locally with such a device.

"So my experience is that progress has been made with digital reproduction and obviously differs from yours. We are most likely both correct in the context of our experiences, although this must make for confusing reading by others!!"

Although our experiences are different, which in itself is perfectly OK, I also base my opinions on how audio and music has "progressed" to the general public. People are not banging down the doors for server-based audio, high-resolution digitized audio, or even products that claim to yield high-fidelity performance. To the general population, the trend is smaller size, compressed recordings, and convenience.

RE: Comments about your point # 4, posted on December 10, 2010 at 22:53:52

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

"How does digitized audio alter the perception of recorded music?"

My best explanation about this was from a post from almost ten years ago. It still rings true today. (I've referenced this post more than any I've posted here.)

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/108362.htm

Back up done, posted on December 10, 2010 at 23:18:09

John C. - Aussie
Audiophile

Posts: 5146
Location: Northern Tasmania
Joined: November 9, 1999

And it took days!

Not sure why the other person you refer to regretted ripping his CDs. Surely he still had the originals?

And yes, I've compared AQ ex the modded Esoteric to the Sooloos and they both sounded equally great to these ears. But as I posted elsewhere at 75 my hearing is not as good now as decades earlier so again, comments are tempered with the caveat of "my experience" which might not equate to that from someone else.

Yes the Meridian Sooloos is obscenely priced and I've no doubt there will be other systems emerging that are as good at a much cheaper price. They exist now but do not appear to be as ergonomic as Sopoloos - something important to me. Mind you the search function needs more work for classical music but I'll live with it for the moment.

John

What can be more subjective than music? It reflects our personal tastes and preferences.

Ripping Over 1000 CDs + "Placebo Effect"................., posted on December 11, 2010 at 00:02:55

Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 37333
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000

"Not sure why the other person you refer to regretted ripping his CDs. Surely he still had the originals?"

I think he had the originals, that wasn't the issue...... It was all the work he put into this, only to come to the realization that the sound wasn't nearly as good as he initially hoped or thought. His initial raves turned out to be "placebo effect". He even admits it. He just laments about the "time wasted".

He did try other sound cards, external DACs, software, OS (Linux), and even power cords to the PC, but nothing rescued the situation.

Hey!, posted on December 11, 2010 at 05:13:18
Steyr	Not true the 10k part I know many many US speaker manufacturers offering quality products under 5k let alone 10k. Maybe they just are not on your radar.

num 5, posted on December 11, 2010 at 05:16:56
Steyr	Totally agree ;)

That "stones"that remove bad frequencies from your system, are not all made in China!, posted on December 11, 2010 at 06:34:28
Barney's Beanery Audiophile Posts: 1191 Location: Twin Cities Area...MN Joined: March 24, 2001	Some are made in the USA! WOW. music has the power to make you happy

What about USA companies Magnepan and VMPS?, posted on December 11, 2010 at 06:45:04
cfb Audiophile Posts: 1130 Location: Midwest Joined: October 19, 2002	Also, I believe HUMAN and Watkins make drivers in the U.S.

But then the Cellos taste orange :-)) nt., posted on December 11, 2010 at 06:56:57
cfb Audiophile Posts: 1130 Location: Midwest Joined: October 19, 2002	nt.

That and the Goldmund - Oppo n/t, posted on December 11, 2010 at 07:39:20
Awe-d-o-file Dealer Posts: 21037 Location: 50 miles west of DC Joined: January 10, 2004	ET "If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936

RE: what is your most shocking wikileakesque revelations about the audio industry in the last 3 years?, posted on December 11, 2010 at 07:42:34

Don Till

That a stereo can be considered really good in spite of sounding really bad, ie. worse than a boombox on many recordings.

That people who claim everything sounds the same are called "objectivists".

That susceptability to RFI implies "high resolution". As in the minds of some audiophiles distinquishing between power cords has something to do with system resolution.

That audiophiles who worship at the alter of the the "absolute sound" or the "most live" deny the objectivism of such an approach and insist on being labelled as subjectivists.

That audiophiles with fairly mediocre or even crummy vinyl playback systems still trumpet the virtues of vinyl and insist that CDs sound bad.

That the abuse of the term "resolution" still runs rampant.

That magazines are still considered credible in spite of the fact they publish recommended component listings.

That some audiophiles would buy an expensive turntable and put a cheap cartridge on it.

That audiophiles continue to insist that poor recording quality implies bad sound and that good recording quality implies good sound.

That many audiophiles still haven't fiqured out how to get their systems to sound great with CDs.

Kim Jong Il is the mastermind behind Kimber, posted on December 11, 2010 at 07:46:53
Jay Buridan Audiophile Posts: 10269 Location: Michigan Joined: January 21, 2004	Ouch! "Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. " ― W.C. Fields

guilty as charged!, posted on December 11, 2010 at 07:53:02
Don Till	I've might have a couple of thousand recordings around here - though over the years I've probably bought 2 or 3 times as many. Not too worried about the software/hardware comments in your post but it's the number of plays that strikes a nerve. Yes I have records around here that are still in shrink wrap. I can't make the time to listen but it's not a hinderence to me buying.

HP calls himself an 'Observational reviewer', posted on December 11, 2010 at 08:05:11
mwhitmore Audiophile Posts: 1720 Location: San Francisco Joined: September 17, 2008	not a subjectivist, which he considers an insult.

Also Soundlab-speakers, posted on December 11, 2010 at 08:08:14
mwhitmore Audiophile Posts: 1720 Location: San Francisco Joined: September 17, 2008	And mbl Radialstrahlers are made in Germany.

RE: Wilson Audio speakers..., posted on December 11, 2010 at 09:02:07
Bill the K Audiophile Posts: 8383 Joined: June 3, 2006	It cannot have a large profit margin.Its not made in China. Nobel Peace Prize winner in Jail and the wife under house arrest. Bill

*RE: The number of speaker not* made in China.., posted on December 11, 2010 at 09:35:25**
robert.gaboury@videotron.ca Manufacturer Posts: 202 Location: Canada Joined: October 16, 2007	This information needs to be corrected. Entry to mid-level speaker cabinets by Cabasse and Triangle are made in the same factory that build certain Klipsch and Adam cabinets (among others). All of those cabinets are nicely built and finished - which is exactly what most folks want: good quality and affordable price.

Ha, I really mind blanked there considering I've got four crates of them right behind me., posted on December 11, 2010 at 09:53:51
cfb Audiophile Posts: 1130 Location: Midwest Joined: October 19, 2002	Guess I was busy trying to think of other magnetic driver companies that still manufacture in the United States, doesn't Eminence still have a factory here? I know they do some OEM work for other companies for conventional speaker drivers and not just Pro equipment.

RE: Comments about your point # 4, posted on December 11, 2010 at 09:59:33

rick_m
Audiophile

Posts: 6230
Location: Oregon
Joined: August 11, 2005

Very good points all!

Of course that's a clue that I agree, but they would be good points anyway.

I've been keen on home audio since the 78 days and my CD collection has given me more pleasure than any other format bar none and I've used about all of them except el cassette. There are a lot of reasons why but the biggest things are that they last well, have adequate playing time, don't require a lot of ritual, players are still abundant and a tremendous amount of material is available. That they can be recorded losslessly is just frosting on the cake.

Just last night I was listening to some disks I hadn't played in years and was simply filled with joy from the great music. One of them happened to be recorded while I was in the audience and I must say it really captures the event.

As you say there's no perfect medium but fortunately our hearing and listening seem highly adaptive and can listen through many deficiencies except for 'unnatural' ones like flutter, wow and jitter artifacts.

But I know what Todd's talking about, or at least I think I do. Occasionally there were just magic moments when playing a great recording on a new good pressing with a newish needle. But that was when LP's were fully mature and really needs to be compared with more mature digial. I find that 24/96 digital can do that bit of magic easily. IMHO digital is far and away the best scheme ever and we've just been living through it's teething era.

Regards, Rick

Allow me to clarify my post...., posted on December 11, 2010 at 10:50:42
mkuller Audiophile Posts: 38130 Location: SF Bay Area Joined: April 22, 2003	...most of the Wikileaks simply state the obvious things we all know. It was tongue in cheek.

Thank you for the correction, posted on December 11, 2010 at 13:30:32
Charles Hansen Manufacturer Posts: 6984 Joined: August 1, 2001	Disappointing, but accuracy is essential.

Yes, Eminence does a lot of work in the US, posted on December 11, 2010 at 13:33:10
Charles Hansen Manufacturer Posts: 6984 Joined: August 1, 2001	They cater almost exclusively to the pro market, but they have done a good job of keeping much of their production in the US. Neodymium magnets can only be purchased from China (long back-story there) and even Eminence may purchase voice coils or surrounds and such from overseas.

RE: What about USA companies Magnepan and VMPS?, posted on December 11, 2010 at 13:35:39
Charles Hansen Manufacturer Posts: 6984 Joined: August 1, 2001	Magnepan is one of the few exceptions, these days. VMPS has a long and excellent history, but I don't think they are widely distributed or comprise a very large market share.

I completely forgot about Vandersteen and apologize., posted on December 11, 2010 at 13:39:40

Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 6984
Joined: August 1, 2001

I am sure there are "many", but they tend to be smaller start-up companies. Gone are the days when Infinity, JBL, Revel, Thiel, and so forth used US-sourced cabinets and drivers.

Vandersteen is probably the largest US manufacturer by far, and they offer models from below $1,000 per pair all the way up to $50,000 per pair. All cabinets are built in-house and all drivers are either sourced from Europe or built in-house.

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